Putin says Ukraine escalated conflict to get U.S. support

Putin is very experienced and dangerous. Divide and conquer is his strategy, and maybe this is the first story to point it out.

Bush,

Heh, you might want to check out Ambassador Haley's comments at the UN.

"The United States continues to condemn and call for an immediate end to the Russian occupation of Crimea," said Nikki Haley, President Donald Trump's envoy to the world body. "Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Our Crimea-related sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns control over the peninsula to Ukraine."

You'd better hope the Kompromat is real - we've all seen how Trump can swing from nice to nasty like a bipolar disorder on Prozac. Just ask Ted Cruz.

New US Ambassador to the UN (and Trump appointee) Nikki Haley sides with Ukraine:

http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/02/us-ambassador-to-un-blames-russia-for-new-violence-in-eastern-ukraine

"I must condemn the aggressive actions of Russia," Nikki Haley told the U.N. Security Council at her first public meeting since being confirmed last week as President Donald Trump's U.N. envoy.

"We do want better relations with Russia," Haley said. "However, the dire situation in eastern Ukraine is one that demands clear and strong condemnation of Russian actions."

Haley said that U.S.-imposed sanctions on Russia for its annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula would remain in place until control of that territory was returned to Kyiv.

"The United States continues to condemn and call for an immediate end to the Russian occupation of Crimea," Haley said. "Crimea is a part of Ukraine."

The US has Ukraine's back

Potentially rich and prosperous, Ukraine is a complete economic and social wreck after the 2014 neonazi coup. Totally corrupt and incompetent, leaders of the coup have nothing to offer to the populace except fascist ideology of WWII nazi Ukrainian collaborators which they instill stubbornly and mercilessly, trying to punish people who want out of this bedlam (this is the reason for the present military campaign against the populace of the Donetsk / Lugansk region).

The Ukrainian cleptocracy has proved to be a huge financial drain for the US and EU, this failed state can not live without foreign help. If the US wants to continue the practice and keep throwing money into this black hole - no problem, go ahead. Ukrainian fat cats will be extremely happy.

@Asakaze A bit harsh, perhaps a tad over the line emotionally, but thank you nonetheless for sharing the Russian perspective. You mentioned that you think the Ukraine is a kleptocracy. If that's the case, how do you think its version differs from Russia's?

Aren't Ukrainians and Russians pretty much exactly the same? I've met both, I didn't see any difference.

@PTownsend

thank you nonetheless for sharing the Russian perspective

Your insistence that everything different from your point of view is "Russian perspective" is bewildering, but anyway you're welcome.

In fact I'm very interested in military conflicts (that's why my posts are mainly about Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, not much time for anything else), I followed the conflict in Ukraine closely from the very beginning and I know the situation there.

how do you think its version differs from Russia's?

The difference is very simple. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia was in turmoil, but now it is in upward trajectory, with all their corruption problems Russians produce wordclass spaceships, nuclear submarines and icebreakers, they open factories one after another and they have very capable military.

To the contrary, Ukraine is in a sharp downward spiral. It was the most prosperous and developed republic of the USSR, but during the twenty five years of the independence Ukrainians managed the unthinkable - they squandered all this great inheritance. They have not built even one new factory, only sold existing factories for scrap. Its derelict military can not defeat locally raised militias of Donbass. Economically present day Ukraine can not support itself, it's dying as a state. Here is the reaction of its political class - to steal everything they can lay their hands on before the final death of this sinking Titanic. Steal and then hide in Europe or US (that explains the complete servile attitude of Ukrainian elites to US and EU, they hope to find a place there).

@Strangerland

Aren't Ukrainians and Russians pretty much exactly the same?

Yes, they are. For about 80 percent of Ukrainians Russian is the mother language. Even in the regime forces' units that fight at Donbass now Russian is the working language. Difference is not ethnical, difference is political. In France in WWII there were Frenchmen who fought against Hitler and Frenchmen who fought for him. The same here - regime forces are pro-nazi, Donbass militia uses WWII Soviet military insignia.

@Asakaze Your insistence that everything different from your point of view is "Russian perspective"

No, but the only people I've heard defend Russia are Russians. I've heard many rightists and authoritarian nationalists from the US laud Putin, but I've yet to hear non-Russians laud Russia. I do like Russian literature, music, and art. I even met Komar and Melamid, each offering interesting perspectives on Russia.

No, but the only people I've heard defend Russia are Russians. I've heard many rightists and authoritarian nationalists from the US laud Putin, but I've yet to hear non-Russians laud Russia

Trump Republicans?

@PTownsend

I've heard many rightists and authoritarian nationalists from the US laud Putin

Here it again, "rightists - nationalists". I can devise and use some catchwords myself; oh, here you go: "only liberal extremists, ultrademocratic interventionists and agressive Clintonists decry Putin". Do not use labels, look at facts and substance, that helps a lot to make right conclusions.

but I've yet to hear non-Russians laud Russia

Yes, on this board there is a number very anti-Russian characters, my best frenemy @Madverts is one of them.

But in real life I have different experience. I've met quite a number of people who have rather favourable view of Russia. And you can't paint them as rightists, because Japanese rightists are not friendly towards Russia (Northern territories)

Back to the subject. The present Ukraine regime is doomed, and the sooner it dies is better, more people will stay alive. Regime forces can fire even more furiously (by the way, Ukraine now has problems even with producing conventional ammunition, it empting old Soviet reserves), but the end is inevitable.

Victory to Donbass!!

Aren't Ukrainians and Russians pretty much exactly the same? I've met both, I didn't see any difference.

Could be said of the same about Mainland Chinese, Taiwanese & Hong Kongers.

Asakaze: The difference is very simple. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia was in turmoil, but now it is in upward trajectory... To the contrary, Ukraine is in a sharp downward spiral.

It's always refreshing to hear such an unbiased view on issues of world conflict...

It's always refreshing to hear such an unbiased view on issues of world conflict...

And you're welcome to give your unbiased view on the issue, for example share with us facts that Ukraine is prospering and peaceful....

@lostrune2 "New US Ambassador to the UN (and Trump appointee) Nikki Haley sides with Ukraine:

http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/02/us-ambassador-to-un-blames-russia-for-new-violence-in-eastern-ukraine"

"I must condemn the aggressive actions of Russia," Nikki Haley told the U.N. Security Council at her first public meeting since being confirmed last week as President Donald Trump's U.N. envoy.

"We do want better relations with Russia," Haley said. "However, the dire situation in eastern Ukraine is one that demands clear and strong condemnation of Russian actions."

Haley said that U.S.-imposed sanctions on Russia for its annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula would remain in place until control of that territory was returned to Kyiv.

"The United States continues to condemn and call for an immediate end to the Russian occupation of Crimea," Haley said. "Crimea is a part of Ukraine."

The US has Ukraine's back."

Waito Noizu.