This frame from Nov. 4, 2019, video by Kenny Miller and posted on the Twitter account of Alex LeBaron shows a burned-out vehicle that was being used by some members of the LeBaron family as they were driving in a convoy near the Sonora-Chihuahua border in Mexico. Mexican authorities say drug cartel gunmen ambushed multiple vehicles, including this one, slaughtering several women and children. (Kenny Miller/Courtesy of Alex LeBaron via AP) Photo: Kenny Miller/Courtesy of Alex LeBaron via AP
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Drug cartel gunmen kill 9 U.S. citizens, including 6 children, in ambush in Mexico

99 Comments
By MARK STEVENSON

Drug cartel gunmen ambushed three SUVs along a dirt road, slaughtering six children and three women — all U.S. citizens living in northern Mexico — in a grisly attack that left one vehicle a burned-out, bullet-riddled hulk, authorities said Tuesday.

The dead included 8-month-old twins. Eight youngsters were found alive after escaping from the vehicles and hiding in the brush, but at least five had gunshot wounds or other injuries and were taken to Phoenix for treatment.

The attackers apparently killed one woman, Christina Langford Johnson, after she jumped out of her vehicle and waved her hands to show she wasn't a threat, according to family members and prosecutors.

Mexican Security Secretary Alfonso Durazo said the gunmen may have mistaken the group's large SUVs for those of rival gangs.

The bloodshed took place Monday in a remote, mountainous area in northern Mexico where the Sinaloa cartel has been engaged in a turf war. The victims had set out to see relatives in Mexico; one woman was headed to the airport in Phoenix to meet her husband.

"There's apparently a war right now," a relative of the dead who did not want his name used for fear of reprisals said wearily. "It's been going on for too long."

While a drug-related violence has been raging for years in Mexico, the attack underscored the way cartel gunmen have become increasingly unconcerned about killing children as collateral damage.

Around the ambush scene, which stretched for miles, investigators found over 200 shell casings, mostly from assault rifles.

In a tweet, President Donald Trump offered to help Mexico "wage WAR on the drug cartels and wipe them off the face of the earth." But Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador rejected that approach, saying his predecessors waged war, "and it didn't work."

The victims lived in Sonora state, about 70 miles (110 kilometers) south of Douglas, Arizona, in the hamlet of La Mora, which was founded decades ago by an offshoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

A number of such American farming communities are clustered around the Chihuahua-Sonora state border. Many members were born in Mexico and have dual citizenship. While some of the splinter groups were once polygamous, many no longer are.

All of the victims were apparently related to the extended LeBaron family in Chihuahua, whose members have run afoul of the drug traffickers over the years. Benjamin LeBaron, an anti-crime activist who founded neighborhood patrols against cartels, was killed in 2009.

Prosecutors said Johnson, the woman who waved her arms, was found 15 yards (meters) away from her Suburban van, shot to death. Her 7-month-old daughter, Faith Marie Johnson, was discovered uninjured in her car seat.

Kendra Miller, a relative, wrote that the baby's car seat "seemed to be put on the floor by her mother to try and protect her. ... She gave her life to try and save the rest."

A short distance away, Dawna Ray Langford, 43, lay dead in the front seat of another Suburban, along with the bullet-riddled bodies of her sons, ages 11 and 2.

Of the children who escaped, one had been shot in the face, another in the foot. One girl suffered gunshot wounds to her back and foot.

Cowering in the brush, one boy hid the other children and then walked back to La Mora to get help. Another girl, who was initially listed as missing, walked off in another direction, despite her gunshot wounds, to get help.

A group of male relatives set out to try to rescue the youngsters but turned back when they heard gunfire ahead.

The relative who did not want his name used said in an interview that when they finally made it to the scene where the ambush started — about 11 miles (18 kilometers) from where the two other mothers were killed — they found a burned-out Chevy Tahoe.

Inside, they saw the charred remains of Rhonita Miller, 30, her 10-year-old daughter, a son, 12, and 8-month-old twins. They were "burnt to a crisp," the relative said.

The gunmen had riddled the vehicle with dozens of bullets and apparently hit the gas tank, causing it to explode.

"When we were there, the cartels from Sonora, there were probably 50 or 60 of them, armed to the teeth, about a mile on this side," said the relative.

Trump tweeted that a "wonderful family" got "caught between two vicious drug cartels."

He said the U.S. "stands ready, willing & able to get involved and do the job quickly and effectively," adding, "The great new President of Mexico has made this a big issue, but the cartels have become so large and powerful that you sometimes need an army to defeat an army!"

But Mexico's president said: "The worst thing you can have is war."

Later, the two leaders spoke by telephone, and Trump offered U.S. assistance "to ensure the perpetrators face justice," the White House said without giving details.

It was the second failure in recent weeks for López Obrador's "hugs not bullets" anti-crime strategy. Two weeks ago, Mexican forces seized a son of imprisoned drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman but had to release him after cartel henchmen launched a furious counterattack in Culiacan, Sinaloa.

Prosecutors on Tuesday said a suspect was detained near Agua Prieta, but it was unclear whether the person had taken part in the ambush. The suspect had assault rifles and a .50-caliber sniper rifle and was holding two bound kidnap victims, authorities said.

The 2009 killing of Benjamin LeBaron marked a watershed in Mexico's 2006-12 drug war. Gunmen tortured him in front of his family, then killed him and his brother-in-law.

But the 2009 killings — which sparked a further crackdown on cartels — also showed how much worse things have become: No children were killed back then.

In August in Chihuahua state, cartel gunmen fired 123 bullets at a man and also killed three girls, ages 4, 13 and 14.

© Copyright 2019 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.


99 Comments

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Sad to state this but some Americans’ insatiable appetite for drugs is what keeps these monsters in business. And the innocent die.

3 ( +17 / -14 )

Tragic.

The following are simply facts and in no way meant as an excuse for this heinous crime: The vast majority of firearms in Mexico originate in the United States. The vast majority of drugs from Mexico are consumed in the United States.

Limiting the number of firearms easily available in the United States and legalizing drugs there will go a long way in relieving the violence stemming from America's love of drugs and firearms.

12 ( +21 / -9 )

In a tweet, President Donald Trump offered to help Mexico

A tweet!?  Nine American's slaughtered and he tweets?  Not a phone call?  Offers to wage a war by tweet?  Americans should be ashamed of this heartless man who appears to feel zero empathy with his country men and woman who have just been brutally slaughtered.  Including 8 old month twins.  He tweets.

5 ( +16 / -11 )

An absolute nightmare. What kind of sick person kills innocent babies? These are animals! My deepest condolences to the families. It is now apparent the Mexican government are powerless to do anything for fear of reprisals and their own lives. If the Mexican government doesn’t go after these criminals and the President offered assistance to help them or Trump needs to designate the Cartel as a terrorist organization and that would change the dynamic as to how to engage or what resources they need to use against them, but this should never go unpunished.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

bass4funk

An absolute nightmare. What kind of sick person kills innocent babies? These are animals!

A tragic event for a Mormon community who have lived in Mexico since 1942.

For sure what kind of sick person or sick country kills innocent babies?

America is the major part of the problem of the drug cartels. High demand for drugs by Americans and easily obtained weapons traded the other way. America supplies the weapons to the drug cartels which in turn kill the people.

America has created the drug cartel. It has also spent more than $1 trillion fighting the drug war but never won.

The outrage now is because the victims are Americans but thousands of Mexicans are killed every year.

The American government seems to be powerless to stop the drugs going north and the gun south.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Nobody knows how to fight the cartels. They don't play by any rules. Extortion, kidnapping, and violence against anyone, anywhere, is their MO.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@Crazyjoe

America isn't their only market. The Sinaloa cartel is also the largest drug provider to most of Europe. The reach of that Cartel is large. The recent surge in violence is because the once united groups are now fighting for power because of the absence of Joaquin Guzman (El Chapo). In a way, chasing and capturing El Chapo has made the situation in Mexico a lot more dangerous.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

The outrage now is because the victims are Americans but thousands of Mexicans are killed every year. 

But as an American, I’m allowed to be outraged my countrymen were needlessly slaughtered.

The American government seems to be powerless to stop the drugs going north and the gun south.

Again, all the more reason for Trump to designate the Cartel as a terrorist organization, that completely changes the dynamic as to how to engage these monsters.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

"There's apparently a war right now," a relative of the dead who did not want his name used for fear of reprisals said wearily. "It's been going on for too long."

Apparently, it would seem so.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

America isn't their only market. The Sinaloa cartel is also the largest drug provider to most of Europe.

Please refrain from bringing up inconvenient facts while we’re trying to take easy pot shots at America and Americans this morning.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Um...haven't been paying attention to American operations in the Mideast? Or South and Central America? Vietnam even? What do you think 'collateral damage' means? Your apparent inability to see American behavior makes it obvious you're an American and a victim of our national character flaw: Compulsive Hypocrisy with Hysterical Denial Syndrome. And the White, polygamous Mormons in Mexico have killed their share of Mexicanos in establishing their fiefdoms in a foreign country.

I vehemently reject that and I know my history and I also know how the war was waged with these countries, but this is year 2019 and there are many, many ways to target the cartels. Again, designate them as a terrorist organization and that will definitely change the dynamic as to how to engage these people.

Designating the Cartels as terrorist organizations (they aren't already?)

Not officially

is useless as is force. But, there IS one simple thing trump could do which would punish the cartels beyond ANYTHING else, which would, in fact, DESTROY them all. End the DEA, the 'Drug War', and make addiction the MEDICAL problem that it is. I realize I'm trying to preach sanity to the propagandistically deranged but what else to do? OUR behavior is insane and we expect sane responses to it which says our expectations are insane as well. And FIFTY years of these same murderous behaviors by the U.S.

I do think they should legalize drugs to a certain point, but that’s not and will not cure the cancer the Cartels are.

*Government and the PROBLEM IS WORSE THAN IT EVER WAS. Where are the conservatives who whine about government incompetence HERE? Hmm? Too many Whites getting rich off of this chaotic murderous debacle? And imagine religion-obsessed Mexicans attempting to set up little 'separate states of Mexico' inside the U.S.? Even Americans couldn't do that in Waco, Texas without being DELIBERATELY IMMOLATEDMEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN. If you want to end such things, maybe start in Texas. But, if you want Biblical for your beliefs, G-d's commands to Moses and Joshua regarding Jericho will not help you. It's in The Book...every man, woman, child, and beast... And that's real;ly us, dontcha think?*

In Texas we do things very differently.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Those poor and completely innocent children. Life lost without any meaning. What a world of savages.....

4 ( +5 / -1 )

dozens of bullets and apparently hit the gas tank, causing it to explode.

Someone watches to many movies. Shooting a gas tank does not cause it to explode.

But Mexico's president said: "The worst thing you can have is war."

But Mexico already has a war with the cartels. Refusing to acknowledge it or fight back will doom Mexico to increasing horrors and a decline of the rule of law and the power of it's government.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Close the borders COMPLETELY

Nothing IN, Nothing OUT

Stop all REMITTANCE to MEXICO and SOUTH AMERICA.

Enforce E Verify

Fine Companies who employee ILLEGALS

NO WELFARE for ILLEGALS, they will return on their own......

Let them SOLVE the PROBLEMS in MEXICO and SOUTH AMERICA or be destroyed by the Crime and Violence.....

Done.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

Close the borders COMPLETELY

Nothing IN, Nothing OUT

Stop all REMITTANCE to MEXICO and SOUTH AMERICA.

Enforce E Verify

Fine Companies who employee ILLEGALS

NO WELFARE for ILLEGALS, they will return on their own......

Let them SOLVE the PROBLEMS in MEXICO and SOUTH AMERICA or be destroyed by the Crime and Violence.....

Well said. Completely and totally agreed.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

So Trump is offering military intervention into another country's crime problem? What did Trump do after 58 people were killed and 851 injured by the Las Vegas shooter? Did he offer anything to stop the killings here? What has he done to stop the "carnage" he talked about in his inaugural speech? What a loser.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

So Trump is offering military intervention into another country's crime problem?

Wait....uh....who’s side are you on? Personally, I think Mexico should get a heads up, when you start indiscriminately killing babies for the sheer pleasure (and I’m not buying that BS it was probably a mistaken identity. These people knew what they were doing) of it, these monsters don’t need a reason. Anyone that knows anything about the Cartel is, they have no code of honor, ethics or remorse when they butcher people, none whatsoever. People like them need to be put down, locked up for life either way we need to make sure all American citizens are protected.

What did Trump do after 58 people were killed and 851 injured by the Las Vegas shooter? Did he offer anything to stop the killings here?

What? Getting in the weeds again?

What has he done to stop the "carnage" he talked about in his inaugural speech? What a loser.

I hope this wakes up the socialists that want open borders realize that we need strong border security, if anyone is loser on this issue are the Democrats. They don’t take the Cartels seriously and they don’t take border security seriously or crime for that matter.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

CSToday  09:28 am JST

Close the borders COMPLETELY

Nothing IN, Nothing OUT

Stop all REMITTANCE to MEXICO and SOUTH AMERICA.

Enforce E Verify

Fine Companies who employee ILLEGALS

NO WELFARE for ILLEGALS, they will return on their own......

Let them SOLVE the PROBLEMS in MEXICO and SOUTH AMERICA or be destroyed by the Crime and Violence.....

Done.

I totally agree with you.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Now Donald Trump has better reasons to expel Hispanic illegal immigrants from US! He has been looking for a pretext very long time!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

"Nobody knows how to fight the cartels"

Send some Chinese PLA or Russian Spetznaz over there, I assure you the problem would be solved in a month.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The American government seems to be powerless to stop the drugs going north and the gun south.

Because the "War on drugs" is profitable and allows them to concentrate authority and power.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Task Utah Senator Mitt Romney with leading how this is handled. He has more credibility as someone who was born in one of the northern Mexico Mormon enclaves, which were set up to get away from US fed and state police raids in the first place.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Most people wouldn't go to that US/Mexico border unless they had a good reason. So many shootings reported from there, always to do with the drug trade. Even if Mexico did take up Trump's offer of help and the cartels were destroyed - similar to what happened with Escobar in Colombia - the trade is so lucrative it would soon start up again, just with different cartels. It's the demand for drugs that's the problem, and there doesn't seem any likelihood of that slackening off.

That lead photo reminds me of the opening scenes in No Country For Old Men. An appropriate reference.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SimondBToday  07:18 am JST

In a tweet, President Donald Trump offered to help Mexico

A tweet!? Nine American's slaughtered and he tweets? Not a phone call?

He DID call the Mexican president. Even the Trump-hating CNN network reports it:

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/mormon-attack-us-mexico-border/index.html

Next time, try researching it. Before you lob an accusation that Trump didn't call someone when he should have, do a little Googling and make sure your accusation holds up.

Seems you were quick to leap at bashing Trump before you got your facts straight. And you were exploiting a horrible tragedy in order to do it.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Romney wasn't born in Mexico. He was born in Michigan. Why attempt to lie about that?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@theFu--oops, honest mistake. It was his father George, later governor of Michigan, who was born in one of the Mexican expat enclaves, according to Smithsonian.com etc. Yes, Mitt is American-born and says he doesn't know any of the people involved in this shooting. I still think he would be better diplomatically to deal with this.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As we all bare responsibility for waste and pollution. Those sticking stuff up their nose, popping molly on the weekend and yelling anti government slogans when it suits, remember the blood is also on your hands. Make a stand against that woke ones. This tragedy is one shared by many.

Actually no, lets just make it about trump again. Sorted.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

People just can't refrain from using illegal drugs. Complain that they should be legal or whatever, but if you're a user, there's a very high chance that someone was killed so that you could consume from that specific batch. But hey, who cares about those poor folk, as long as we can get high, right?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

In recent months, about 100 people are murdered (mainly because of the drug cartels) everyday in Mexico. That's 1,000 people every 10 days, 30,000 people per month. 90,000 people every 3 months . . . Is that right?! If that's true, then it would put Mexico right up there with Syria as being one of the most dangerous areas of the planet.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Madden: But hey, who cares about those poor folk, as long as we can get high, right?

That is probably what the shooters were thinking too, if anything.

We need to send in the Magnificent Seven to deal with these banditos.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The consumption of drugs in America is causing problems with the drainage and water supply systems which are becoming contaminated from illegal drugs as well as drugs like antibiotics. The currency are loaded with drugs.

There are many campaigns about not buying clothes made in a sweatshop or produced by slave labour but these same principles are not applied when buying illegal drugs.

There are blood diamonds just has there are blood drugs.

Wiping out a drug cartel which has happened many times and locking up drug lords in max prisons are just replaced by new cartels.

The reality must be dealt with at the root cause not just trying to remove the symptoms. The reality is very harsh, cruel and violent.

In turn in America, how much crime is committed because of drugs.

Legalising drugs would solve some of the major problems.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Anyway, this is horrible and the end of the cartels will only come about when the drugs trade is legalized. Cut out the violence, and deliver clean product.

But what brave politicians will realize this?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Trump needs to designate the Cartel as a terrorist organization and that would change the dynamic as to how to engage

doubt that will stop them , you've got basically a terrorist organization with $billions in cash easy access to weapons they'll make IRA look like a choir boys. tens thousands of civilians will die as they'll most likely target civilians with bombs as well as guns if the Mexico and American governments declare war on them

2 ( +3 / -1 )

 they'll make IRA look like a choir boys.

Bit of a difference, there. The modern IRA came about as a reaction to the discrimination and brutalization of the Catholic population in the occupied 6 counties. See attacks on the Civil Rights movement etc.

But yes, a war on the cartels will spill much blood and achieve little. The only way, I believe, is to make drugs legal and cut out the cartels.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@stormcrow--your numbers are off because you equated 1000 people in ten days with 30,000 a month. Not to dispute it's horrific but you added an extra multiple of ten.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But yes, a war on the cartels will spill much blood and achieve little.

Not if it’s done in the right way and the kid gloves are taken off.

The only way, I believe, is to make drugs legal and cut out the cartels.

Yes, but let’s create a nation full of zombies, that’s the answer.

Anyway, there is no justification for the slaughter of the people, regardless of religious leanings.

Thank you.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Not if it’s done in the right way and the kid gloves are taken off.

The war on drugs has achieved very little over the decades.

Yes, but let’s create a nation full of zombies, that’s the answer.

Prohibition doesn't work. It creates a nation of racketeers and violence. And not everyone who does drugs loses control of their faculties. Not that I'm a fan of hard drugs, natch. But it should be the choice of the people.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

bass4funk

But yes, a war on the cartels will spill much blood and achieve little.

Not if it’s done in the right way and the kid gloves are taken off.

Just how do you suggest that is done. Drug cartels are killed or jailed and their assets taken but then another new drug cartel comes along. America has spent $1 trillion fighting drugs. They sprayed the coca fields in Colombia to kill the crops but they survived.

Could try stopping the illegal sale of guns inside America and better gun control so they buy less guns. But in fact the American border guards do not care what is going south.

The only way, I believe, is to make drugs legal and cut out the cartels.

Yes, but let’s create a nation full of zombies, that’s the answer.

Prohibition has never worked even with alcohol. Legalised drugs removes the need for the cartels, the crime associated with it and the poisons often used to cut drugs with.

In the states which have legalised marijuana has there been any large spike in consumption.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Could try stopping the illegal sale of guns inside America and better gun control so they buy less guns.

That wouldn’t work as there are millions of illegal guns on the streets and underground.

But in fact the American border guards do not care what is going south.

Democrats don’t care what’s going on in the South.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Sadly leftist talking heads on TV using this tragedy as proof that Mexico isn’t safe enough for all the economic migrants. All those migrants must be granted immediate access to safety in the USA.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Legalizing drugs doesn’t work either, look at LA, NY, SF, Seattle and Portland.

The only drug legalized in those places is marijuana. The violence and waste of law enforcement resources in those areas related to marijuana had plummeted since legalization.

That wouldn’t work as there are millions of illegal guns on the streets and underground. 

It wouldn't work immediately, but would have an effect over time. I know you Trumpophiles think we shouldn't try something if it doesn't solve a problem immediately, but that's not how reality works.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Sadly leftist talking heads on TV using this tragedy as proof that Mexico isn’t safe enough for all the economic migrants.

Refugees aren't economic migrants, but great way to minimize their plight by referring to them as such. Accuracy continues to elude you.

All those migrants must be granted immediate access to safety in the USA.

This is not accurate.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

bass4funk

Could try stopping the illegal sale of guns inside America and better gun control so they buy less guns.

That wouldn’t work as there are millions of illegal guns on the streets and underground.

So you are now back to your normal stance on gun ownership which is also part of the problem. Hence the American mass shootings also continue.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Please refrain from bringing up inconvenient facts while we’re trying to take easy pot shots at America and Americans this morning.

Please refrain from bringing up irrelevant facts. Nobody is trying to take easy pot shots at America or Americans.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

No pot shots at America or Americans but a genuine interest to find real solutions to real problems and not to just whitewash the facts like its Mexico's problem and not America.

Denying the truth evades the solution.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So Trump is offering military intervention into another country's crime problem? What did Trump do after 58 people were killed and 851 injured by the Las Vegas shooter?

Google the Posse Comitatus Act.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The only drug legalized in those places is marijuana. The violence and waste of law enforcement resources in those areas related to marijuana had plummeted since legalization. 

Not other narcotics.

It wouldn't work immediately

But eventually if you allow them to go after them, zero restraints and as aggressively as possible.

but would have an effect over time. I know you Trumpophiles think we shouldn't try something if it doesn't solve a problem immediately, but that's not how reality works.

Why are liberals always on the side of law breakers?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

No pot shots at America or Americans but a genuine interest to find real solutions to real problems and not to just whitewash the facts like its Mexico's problem and not America.

Denying the truth evades the solution.

liberals don’t have any solutions and over the last three years they haven’t even tried to work with this president not one bit in trying to stop the flow of illegals and to bring up ideas how to slow down the drug cartels or put them out of commission, they’re too busy chasing after Russia and Ukraine ghosts. That’s the hard truth.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

bass4funk

liberals don’t have any solutions and over the last three years they haven’t even tried to work with this president not one bit in trying to stop the flow of illegals and to bring up ideas how to slow down the drug cartels or put them out of commission, they’re too busy chasing after Russia and Ukraine ghosts. That’s the hard truth.

Sorry but you are very short sighted trying to reduce the American drug problems to the current round of democrats or liberals has you also call them without even accepting that the history of American drug use in modern times dates back to the 1960's, almost 80 years.

I even didn't mentioned Trump in my comments because the serious problems of drug cartels American drug use and allowing the sale of illegal guns predates all the way back to when Kennedy was president.

The current crop of liberals haven't been in power for the past three years.

You deflections does not deal with the real issues.

Until you accept the full range of the problems you'll never find the solutions.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Yes refugees are not economic migrants. These people at the Mexico border however, are economic migrants. They are all coming for jobs to make money to send back to their families or to get benefits illegals get.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Sorry but you are very short sighted

I’m not, but the Democrats are and they’re not even trying to tackle the problem or do whatever it takes stop this, as long as we take the liberal approach and make excuses...nothing will change, absolutely nothing.

I even didn't mentioned Trump in my comments because the serious problems of drug cartels American drug use and allowing the sale of illegal guns predates all the way back to when Kennedy was president.

We have never fully and aggressively tried to tackle this problem head on.

The current crop of liberals haven't been in power for the past three years.

The way they run their mouths you’d think a millennium has already passed.

You deflections does not deal with the real issues.

Not me, talk to the Democrats, they’re the ones that don’t care. If they don’t care about border security why on Earth would they care about the Cartels? But yes, the Kurds and impeachment are the only things that matter to them, nothing else.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The American illegal drug industry generates $100 billion a year.

The "War on Drugs" is a term commonly applied to a campaign of prohibition and foreign military aid and military intervention undertaken by the United States government, with the assistance of participating countries, and the stated aim to define and reduce the illegal drug trade. This initiative includes a set of drug policies of the United States that are intended to discourage the production, distribution, and consumption of illegal psychoactive drugs. The term was first used by U.S. President Richard Nixon.

The illegal immigrants are not connected to the post.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bass4funk

We have never fully and aggressively tried to tackle this problem head on.

Then what was the $1 trillion spent on over the past 50 years for the American war on drugs?

I don't think you have any real solutions while you think its all something just to do with liberals/democrats.

Legalising drugs would be the first real step.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Then what was the $1 trillion spent on over the past 50 years for the American war on drugs?

Again, the full fury of the US might has never been truly unleashed on these terrorists.

I don't think you have any real solutions

I just suggested one.

while you think its all something just to do with liberals/democrats.

It does to a very large extent.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

bass4funk

Then what was the $1 trillion spent on over the past 50 years for the American war on drugs?

Again, the full fury of the US might has never been truly unleashed on these terrorists.

Firstly drug cartels and drug gangs are not terrorists.

The Posse Comitatus Act is an act that prohibits the federal government from using the armed forces as a posse comitatus for law enforcement, except in cases and circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress. The act was enacted in the year1878, and it is cited in 18 USCS § 1385.

Today, the president of Mexico declined any offers of help from America.

Drug abuse and addiction cost American society more than $740 billion annually in lost workplace productivity, healthcare expenses, and crime-related costs.

Add to that the $229 billion costs of gun homicide. $1 trillion every year.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

A tweet!? Nine American's slaughtered and he tweets? Not a phone call?

Yeah, if he called, the Democrats would find something to complain about and he doesn't need the aggravation.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Firstly drug cartels and drug gangs are not terrorists. 

They most definitely are and unwilling to acknowledge that critical point is the reason why we can never truly tackle this problem. Any person shooting up and burning alive innocent women and children as well as babies is actually worse than a terrorist.

The Posse Comitatus Act is an act that prohibits the federal government from using the armed forces as a posse comitatus for law enforcement,

Laws can always be changed and the President can always issue an executive order, he’s serious and yet the Democrats aren’t? Ahh, they’re too busy trying to impeach this President on who knows what

Today, the president of Mexico declined any offers of help from America.

Yes, he’s more worried about his neck than to tackle the problem. This is why nothing ever changes in Mexico, no one is willing to take a stand. I know it’s hard I get it and it’s extremely risky, but if you don’t take the initiative and that first step, nothing will change. Wanting change also means possibly putting your own life at risk. Either you fight this as dirty as the Cartels or you’re just putting a band aid on the problem and just blowing smoke.

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bass4funk

Laws can always be changed and the President can always issue an executive order, he’s serious and yet the Democrats aren’t?

I doubt the Posse Comitatus Act can be changed which was enacted in 1878. The president does not have the executive order to sent military troops into Mexico.

You don't accept that the American drug problem has existed for 80 years? It's not about the current crop of democrats.

Trump could do something about the gun laws.

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I doubt the Posse Comitatus Act can be changed which was enacted in 1878. The president does not have the executive order to sent military troops into Mexico.

When US lives are at stake he does.

You don't accept that the American drug problem has existed for 80 years? It's not about the current crop of democrats.

You can believe that, I don’t and again, I’m not talking about the drug problem, let’s keep the focus on the families that were murdered in cold blood by these terrorists.

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@CS

Thats the truth! I agree.

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bass4funk

When US lives are at stake he does.

so tell me what order the president can issue allowing U.S. troops to enter Mexico?

Trump reduced the funding given to Mexico for fighting the drug cartels.

Last week the first new mile of the Trump wall was started. The first new mile since Trump took office.

Many members were born in Mexico and have dual citizenship. 

Those people are Mexicans when in Mexico.

You can believe that, I don’t and again, I’m not talking about the drug problem, let’s keep the focus on the families that were murdered in cold blood by these terrorists.

So you refuse to accept the American responsibility for creating the demand for drugs which at least started in the 1960's. It's well documented and even many movies and documentaries were made. You refuse to accept the enormous costs that drug addictions cause.

You just want revenge and then will simply move on claiming some sort of victory.

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so tell me what order the president can issue allowing U.S. troops to enter Mexico?

the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has claimed that the Constitution authorizes the president, as commander in chief, to order the military to attack other countries without congressional permission if the president determines that this would be anticipatory self-defense or otherwise serve the interests of the United States

Trump reduced the funding given to Mexico for fighting the drug cartels.

The Mexican government has never done anything monumental to try and stop the Cartels.

Last week the first new mile of the Trump wall was started.

It was started earlier this Spring but you wouldn’t know it because the liberal media hasn’t been or won’t do their job, but conservatives knew.

Those people are Mexicans when in Mexico.

An hold US citizenship and their families are US citizens.

So you refuse to accept the American responsibility for creating the demand for drugs which at least started in the 1960's.

I want to keep the conversation focused on the terrorists, that’s what the topic is about.

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bass4funk

An hold US citizenship and their families are US citizens.

Except people with dual nationality and in the country of the that, in this case they are Mexican citizens and not covered by protection with American laws.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/mexican-drug-cartels-kill-american-mormons

But an attack against Mexican citizens would not be self defense.

The Mexican government has never done anything monumental to try and stop the Cartels.

Since the beginning of the drug war, the Mexican authorities have killed 360,000 drug people.

Construction of Trump's wall, new mile began last week.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/04/politics/new-wall-built-mexico-texas-border/index.html

I want to keep the conversation focused on the terrorists, that’s what the topic is about.

Then has you kill one cartel another will be formed. The problems will continue.

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Except people with dual nationality and in the country of the that, in this case they are Mexican citizens and not covered by protection with American laws.

Actually, that’s not true, because they possess dual citizenship, they can claim they are American as well.

But an attack against Mexican citizens would not be self defense.

Against an American citizen it would and you don’t see the Mexican government running to their defense either, but to the Mexican Federalies why would they care if some Gringo is shot?

Since the beginning of the drug war, the Mexican authorities have killed 360,000 drug people.

I’m not talking about the expendable foot soldiers, I’m talking about taking out the leadership, hard and heavy and make it intolerable for them.

Construction of Trump's wall, new mile began last week.

No, it started in the spring, CNN and msnbc have been focusing on Mueller and impeachment and the news be damned because to the pundits, it doesn’t matter what the public wants, the Democrats will force feed you on what you should focus on, but conservatives knew the construction was underway.

Then has you kill one cartel another will be formed. The problems will continue.

Yeah, they said the same thing about the NYC mafia and although they’re still present, they’re all former shadows of themselves.

Thanks Rudy.

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You claim to have dual nationality so you should know what it means. There's plenty of online sites which can inform you.

The victims and Mormons with Mexican dual nationality are Mexican while in the country and must enter and leave with a Mexican passport.

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You claim to have dual nationality so you should know what it means.

I do and that’s why I stand behind what I said.

The victims and Mormons with Mexican dual nationality are Mexican while in the country and must enter and leave with a Mexican passport.

Which the rest have done and back into the arms of America, Trump wants to do something, the Mexican President doesn’t and the Democrats won’t, so they’re not serious in protecting Americans, go figure.

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It generally is considered that while dual nationals are in the country of which they are citizens that country has a predominant claim on them.

http://www.apsanlaw.com/law-39.What-is-Dual-Nationality-or-Dual-Citizenship-USA.html

A suspect killer has already been arrested.

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Which the rest have done and back into the arms of America, Trump wants to do something, the Mexican President doesn’t and the Democrats won’t, so they’re not serious in protecting Americans, go figure.

How exactly do you know the Dems won't do anything regarding this tragedy?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It generally is considered that while dual nationals are in the country of which they are citizens that country has a predominant claim on them.

Yes, in normal circumstances, but this is not one of them. OBL was in the care of Pakistan, we didn’t ask their permission to get him, we didn’t ask the Mexican government if we could keep El Chapo either and Trump if pushed given the horrific circumstances can do the same and the family will come to the US to seek refuge since they are US citizens as well.

How exactly do you know the Dems won't do anything regarding this tragedy?

They haven’t done anything on the border so far, so why would they do something now even in this tragic situation? They’re too busy worrying about a stupid phone call. 27 Americans have been murdered in Mexico this year and none of the liberal networks mention it. But who cares, no big deal, we have to worry about Zelenskiy and the Kurds that’s way more important. Smh....

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Yes, in normal circumstances, but this is not one of them

How do you determine it isn't a "normal circumstance"?

we didn’t ask the Mexican government if we could keep El Chapo either

What are you talking about? The Mexicans captured El Chapo and we requested his extradition, which the Mexicans granted. Cursory research would benefit your accuracy quite a lot.

They haven’t done anything on the border so far, so why would they do something now even in this tragic situation?

This is a strange way to say that you don't know that then Dems won't do anything.

Do you really need to be reminded about the Dems attempts to fortify the border and address immigration in 2013 that was shot down by the open-border republicans? Do cursory research before you break out your litany of inaccuracies as to why the open-border repubs didn't want to begin to address the issues in 2013.

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27 Americans have been murdered in Mexico this year and none of the liberal networks mention it.

where did that come from?

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Yes refugees are not economic migrants. These people at the Mexico border however, are economic migrants. They are all coming for jobs to make money to send back to their families or to get benefits illegals get

How exactly do you know this? Have you interviewed all of them? Didn't think so.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

How do you determine it isn't a "normal circumstance"?

Killing innocent children and women and burning them alive doesn’t meet that criteria.

What are you talking about? The Mexicans captured El Chapo and we requested his extradition, which the Mexicans granted.

Because under heavy pressure there was the threat that we would get him, he’s not sitting in a Mexican prison, we learned from that mistake and the Mexican government knew if we go in that’s it.

This is a strange way to say that you don't know that then Dems won't do anything.

I think so as well. They haven’t so far. But when it comes to Trump, they’re laser focused....or you would think...

Do you really need to be reminded about the Dems attempts to fortify the border

And yet they haven’t done anything so far in the last 3 years to help this President secure the border, to end sanctuary cities, none of it, in fact they’ve done the exact opposite.

where did that come from?

Oh, the MSM hasn’t mention that. They’re too busy talking about Ukraine and a phone call.

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Killing innocent children and women and burning them alive doesn’t meet that criteria.

It was a heinous crime, but it still happened on Mexican soil.

Because under heavy pressure there was the threat that we would get him, he’s not sitting in a Mexican prison, we learned from that mistake and the Mexican government knew if we go in that’s it.

Yeah, this doesn't change the fact that Mexico captured himand agreed to extradite him, which means your description of us not asking Mexico for him was completely incorrect.

I think so as well. They haven’t so far. But when it comes to Trump, they’re laser focused....or you would think..

Glad you admit that you have no idea whether Dems will refuse to do anything about thiS.

And yet they haven’t done anything so far in the last 3 years to help this President secure the border, to end sanctuary cities, none of it, in fact they’ve done the exact opposite.

Cursory research demonstrates that this statement is extremely inaccurate.

Oh, the MSM hasn’t mention that. They’re too busy talking about Ukraine and a phone call.

Here's the pivot from liberal networks to the MSM. Fox "News" is the most mainstream media in the US, which is evidenced by its ratings.

Do you have acute to back up your claim that 27 Americans have been killed in Mexico this year?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

*a cite

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It was a heinous crime, but it still happened on Mexican soil.

And the President can make the decking to take the kid gloves off if he wants on this one. Amazing how fast the Mexican authorities apprehended a suspect, usually doesn’t happen that fast. Hmm...

Glad you admit that you have no idea whether Dems will refuse to do anything about thiS.

They haven’t look at the border, look at California, it’s in your face, it’s out your window, we have a very good and clear idea.

Here's the pivot from liberal networks to the MSM.

Because the border was never their focus. Democrats said if I recall, it’s a manufactured crisis.

Do you have acute to back up your claim that 27 Americans have been killed in Mexico this year?

By reading the news.

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And the President can make the decking to take the kid gloves off if he wants on this one. Amazing how fast the Mexican authorities apprehended a suspect, usually doesn’t happen that fast. Hmm..

And violate the soveirgnty territory of Mexico? That's a great idea. Why not address the demand for drugs in the US that fuels the cartels and unreasonable number of easily accessible firearms in the US that ark the cartels?

They haven’t look at the border, look at California, it’s in your face, it’s out your window, we have a very good and clear idea.

Irrelevant to your claim that the Dems will do nothing. Just admit you have no idea what the Dems will do about this specific tragedy. Stop thrashing about trying to disparage Dems via irrelevance.

Because the border was never their focus. Democrats said if I recall, it’s a manufactured crisis.

Never mind in 2013 when the Dems were focused on the border but Repubs weren't. Your selective memory is funny.

By reading the news.

This is not an answer to my question. I'll take it that you don't have a cite.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And violate the soveirgnty territory of Mexico?

Yes, we did it with Pakistan as well and got Osama bin Laden.

Irrelevant to your claim that the Dems will do nothing.

Very relevant there’s not one thing that the Democrats have done along the border especially in the last three years, absolutely nothing, in fact they have worsen the situation go to every city in Los Angeles and San Francisco and look for yourself it’s all right there it’s all a front of your eyes.

This is not an answer to my question.

It is, but I understand for Democrats none of that is important, the only thing that is important is Ukraine and impeach this president and everything else doesn’t matter one bit.

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Mexico is a failed state. Build the wall.

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The lefts solution: take away peoples guns and legalize hard drugs. That kind if insanity is why Im not a supporter of the left.

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Yes, we did it with Pakistan as well and got Osama bin Laden.

False equivalency.

Very relevant there’s not one thing that the Democrats have done along the border especially in the last three years, absolutely nothing, in fact they have wors the situation go to every city in Los Angeles and San Francisco and look for yourself it’s all right there it’s all a front of your eyes.

Incorrect. Try a bit of research. Of course, I understand your definition of "do nothing" is the Dems not caving to every demand made by Donny.

It is, but I understand for Democrats none of that is important, the only thing that is important is Ukraine and impeach this president and everything else doesn’t matter one bit.

No, it isn't. I asked for a cute and you replied: "By reading the news."

It's painfully obvious that you are not engaged in the conversation in good faith; you merely want to argue and are willing to constantly obfuscate, deflect, and push blatant inaccuracies to so do. Smooth.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Mexico is a failed state. Build the wall.

Sadly, it really is, but I agree.

False equivalency.

No, Americans attacked in a horrific way we will seek justice no matter where or how long it takes.

Try a bit of research.

I did and there is nothing at all this year, but driving around California, you see how miserably the Democrats policy on the border as well as illegals has completely failed.

It's painfully obvious that you are not engaged in the conversation in good faith

I really do, but I’m a serious person and I don’t want to engage in liberal hyperbole especially when it comes to this tragic issue. The President offered the Mexican President assistance and the Democrats have said nothing about this tragedy, the only thing that is occupying their cerebral cortex is impeachment and nothing more, that’s painfully obvious, but predictable.

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California dreamin.

The reality is different but liberals refuse to see it.

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America is bleeding $1 trillion every year in drug addictions and gun homicides which is more than the national defense budget and over 20 years equal to just about the amount of the national debt.

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California dreamin. 

The reality is different but liberals refuse to see it.

Liberal hippies wrote the song, go figure....

America is bleeding $1 trillion every year in drug addictions and gun homicides which is more than the national defense budget and over 20 years equal to just about the amount of the national debt.

Which has nothing to do with this family being brutally murdered. I care more about that than the debt. Money can’t replace life.

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bass4funk

America is bleeding $1 trillion every year in drug addictions and gun homicides which is more than the national defense budget and over 20 years equal to just about the amount of the national debt.

Which has nothing to do with this family being brutally murdered. I care more about that than the debt. Money can’t replace life.

It has everything to do with the brutal murder of these people because if there was no American demand for drugs then the drug cartels would not exist nor would they have the American dollars to buy American guns t0 kill American people.

Tragic deaths of 9 people.

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Health Statistics predicted that 68,500 Americans died of drug overdoses in 2018

So the deaths of these 9 are greater than the 69,000 addicts every year?

Opioids, as in years past, were the drugs most likely to be involved in fatal overdoses, but opioid deaths declined slightly, from about 49,000 in 2017 to a predicted 47,600 in 2018.

https://time.com/5628293/drug-overdose-deaths-2018/

Over 20 years 1.5 million will die from overdoses and cost the economy $15 trillion.

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It has everything to do with the brutal murder

No, people have choices, don’t make an excuse for what happened, everyone has a choice and these terrorists decided to end the lives of innocent people.

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20 million American opioid addicts pushed by Big Pharma.

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Who shots 8 month old innocent helpless babies? Only cold-blooded Psycho killers.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Only cold-blooded Psycho killers

Using American guns bought with American dollars supplying the American drug market.

Which part don't you get?

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Using American guns bought with American dollars supplying the American drug market.

Which part don't you get?

Ok, so you’re saying and making excuses that these terrorists in Mexico didn’t have the will or fortitude to reject killing innocent women and children? You keep making excuses for adults that can decide right from wrong. If you can kill babies you are worse than a terrorist, indescribably evil.

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Ok, so you’re saying and making excuses that these terrorists in Mexico didn’t have the will or fortitude to reject killing innocent women and children? You keep making excuses for adults that can decide right from wrong. If you can kill babies you are worse than a terrorist, indescribably evil.

Nobody is trying to excuse this heinous crime. How many times do you have to be told that? We are discussing the root causes of these crimes.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No, Americans attacked in a horrific way we will seek justice no matter where or how long it takes.

Eight people v 3,000+.

I did and there is nothing at all this year, but driving around California, you see how miserably the Democrats policy on the border as well as illegals has completely failed.

Clearly you haven't done any research. Love that you break out a personal anecdote as if it is appropriate support for a claim in critical discourse.

I really do, but I’m a serious person and I don’t want to engage in liberal hyperbole especially when it comes to this tragic issue. The President offered the Mexican President assistance and the Democrats have said nothing about this tragedy, the only thing that is occupying their cerebral cortex is impeachment and nothing more, that’s painfully obvious, but predictable.

Incorrect.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Nobody is trying to excuse this heinous crime.

....and yet liberals are still making excuses and it’s been three days now or four days and still I don’t hear any drastic action to be taken by the Democrats, these people are all talk, but they will run their mouths with this impeachment hoax.

Clearly you haven't done any research

But I did, I wouldn’t lie and it’s all there to see. Buy a ticket, go to LA or SF and tell me we don’t have an immigration problem. I know California loves it’s weed, but once you put the reefer down, it’s quite apparent.

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bass4funk

you are commenting on the effects or symptoms of this brutal tragic and very violent crime. But even if killing the entire drug cartel won't resolve the problem because it will only be replaced by another new one with further killings of mostly Mexicans.

You also keep wanting to put all of the responsibility on the current democrats and its because of them and won't except there have been drug cartels since the 1960's. Mexico isn't the only country and others have them too. The cocaine comes from Columbia and Bolivia.

I think it is better to look at why these drug cartel even exist and what can be changed so they go out of business. Also look at how these drug cartels are buying American guns with their American drug money and what can be done to stop that.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

you are commenting on the effects or symptoms of this brutal tragic and very violent crime. But even if killing the entire drug cartel won't resolve the problem because it will only be replaced by another new one with further killings of mostly Mexicans.

Then as with radical islamists, you target the senior leader infrastructure of the Cartel, take them out after you re-designate them as terrorists and threat them as such.

You also keep wanting to put all of the responsibility on the current democrats

A great deal of it, yes, I do, especially in California.

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A great deal of it, yes, I do, especially in California.

California is not the state with the highest level of illegal drugs used.

"Drug abuse has a long and storied history in the United States, and we’ve been “at war” with it since 1971 under the Nixon administration. But no matter who is in office, the federal drug budget continues to increase. It’s moved from $23.8 billion in 2013 to over $27.7 billion in 2018."

District of Columbia is No1 California is No41. Way down the scale.

https://wallethub.com/edu/drug-use-by-state/35150/

Then as with radical islamists, you target the senior leader infrastructure of the Cartel, take them out after you re-designate them as terrorists and threat them as such.

That's been happening for more than 50 years but it never ends.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

California is not the state with the highest level of illegal drugs used.

I’m not talking about drugs, I’m talking about this family (The topic at hand) that was senselessly murdered, but I get it, liberals don’t want to talk about it, most of the other networks are not covering it. They need to focus on a bogus impeachment inquiry.

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Where does it say the murdered people were born in California? The children would probably have been born in Mexico has are many of this Mormon community? You are the one who constantly mentions California and constantly blaming it but how does it connect with the murdered people who are more than one family?

You are not talking about drugs even though they were killed by a drug cartel? They also expressed public opposition to the cartels? That would make them a target.

This has been reported extensively by all of the American media and foreign media including Japanese.

"The family members were U.S. citizens but lived in a Mormon community, called La Mora, in the Mexican border state of Sonora, according to another relative, Leah Staddon, who was born and raised in the same community but now lives in Arizona. She said her family, although American, has lived in Mexico for decades and they are all dual citizens."

No mention of California in any reports?

You seem to blame the democrats for this event?

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