Restaurants: The next front for the U.S. immigration debate?

Wow. This doesn't protect illegal immigrants, it protects the restaurant owners. They want to be free to exploit people who cannot fight back, free to pay subpar wages to their staff.

Illegal immigrants create artificial downward pressure on wages in the country. If these businesses had to hire legal residents and citizens, they would have to pay them more and also enrol them in federal taxation/social welfare programs.

It also hurts Americans who could be doing those jobs, if only they weren't competing with illegal immigrants who are willing to work for less.

But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of another round of lefty virtue signalling!

But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of another round of lefty virtue signalling!

So what you're saying is you support higher wages for staff to employ Americans, the inevitable higher taxes for businesses to pay that bill and a more expensive tab when you've actuially finished your meal to finance Americans to do the jobs illegal immigrants currently do. Okey-dokey.

And then you shrieked about lefties. Heh. Are you a Trump Republican by any chance?

So, people want to support someone who violates federal laws? I just don't get it. Thought harboring a known criminal was also a criminal offense.

Don't have any issue with legal immigration. It is the illegal aliens that bother me. Following the rules to get into a country and stay there legally is important. Now, if citizens decide to make a guest worker program legal, fine.

Oh - and last time I checked, tax fraud was illegal too.

There are restaurants that want the right to decide not to serve to LBGT

And now there are restaurants that want the right to decide how to treat illegal immigrants

The issue is enforcement. Police officers and restaurant owners are not trained to be immigration officers and they do not want to be. Has a cop ever asked you for proof of citizenship when you interacted with them? They can ask for ID, but there is no law against not having it.

What sounds like a good idea turns into what we had in Arizona where the police were trying to ask about citizenship when they pulled people over. Of course they defaulted to grilling Latinos, and legal Latinos got a bit tired of getting pulled over and asked,, "Are you a legal resident?" when obviously they weren't asking that to the white guys they pulled over. It produced two different types of interactions with police based on how you looked.

The point is that it's not an easy situation. Police do not have the time, manpower, or budgets to create immigration enforcement wings out of the blue. That's not their job.

Blaming other people for your own shortcomings seems to be the age we're living in. The European left have always done this but the operation has now been seized lock-stock by the screaming right both in the US and somewhat in the UK. I pissed my life up the wall and I want my white privilege back dammit!

The US is in a mountain of debt because it has simply lived beyond its' means for 40 odd years, a behemoth of wealth, power and influence spunked up the wall through nothing other than Denial of the basic principles of arithmetic. This predicament has almost nothing to do with foreigners, issues like immigration are just for voters to take their eyes off the ball and fire up the racists which is the frightening reality of the unstoppable debt spiral. Trump, Brexit.....the rise and confidence of the foaming-at-the-mouth extreme right - all symptoms of this sole and sickening malaise.

The fact is that illegal immigrants in the US are there to WORK. They do the crappy jobs that Americans don't wan't to do. The only way I can see to really tackle the issue and stop illegals working in the US is more government control, something most of us despise. Banning pay cheques in cash and the necessity of a social security number not only to gain employment, but even to open a bank account. No passport? No SS number? Sorry - no account. One more step towards the police state run by elites desperate for a cashless society. Like the one in which I live in, called France.

And then like I said above - you have to pass that cost on to the customer.

Higher minimum wage? Check.

Higher taxes on restaurants? Check.

Higher cost of a meal? Check.

Trump Republicans are insane so I would not expect any of them to take an honest stab at this, but the reality is that the immigration issue will end up in more debt, less jobs and more government control - something big government Republicans like Donald Trump and his swamp will accept with open arms.

Sorry; ILLEGAL Alien is an ILLEGAL alien. It's NOT a Rose. Does this mean I can come to Japan, even with today's economy, and expect to find a job in a restaurant and just live there indefinitely with no visa, or overstayed ? Why is this sort of attitude O.K. to have for USA, but NOT sayyyy, in Japan ? Yup, once again, it's the big, bad, USA that is the bad guy.

Madverts: I am tired of the old shibboleth that "illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do". It is wrong, racist, and demeaning. There ARE jobs that Americans won't do for the wage that is offered. However they WOULD do them for higher salary. That is the essential problem of importing millions of illegal immigrants. They are willing to work for wages that Americans won't. This creates stagnant wage growth and helps nobody, except the business owners, who would rather pay 3 bucks an hour to an illegal than 10 bucks to a legal resident.

Besides, think about it for a minute. Who did all these "crappy jobs" BEFORE the influx of illegals? Answer: Americans and legal immigrants! No reason we can't return to that state of affairs.

So yes, I support higher wages for legal residents and citizens. This cost would be passed on to end consumers of course, so be it. It would also broaden the tax base and raise revenue. I don't think it would have any impact on the rate of taxation though. Not sure what the connection is there...

If people want to work in America, great! Get in line, get a visa, and have at it. But don't disrupt the country by screwing over those who are already there.

AttilathehungryJAN. 25, 2017 - 10:46PM JST Madverts: I am tired of the old shibboleth that "illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do". It is wrong, racist, and demeaning.

Rubbish - it's the same in every developed country. But nice rant. And hold on a minute there, heh - you're already contradicting yourself:

There ARE jobs that Americans won't do for the wage that is offered. However they WOULD do them for higher salary. That is the essential problem of importing millions of illegal immigrants. They are willing to work for wages that Americans won't. This creates stagnant wage growth and helps nobody, except the business owners, who would rather pay 3 bucks an hour to an illegal than 10 bucks to a legal resident.

Riiight.

So clearly you support a much higher minimum wage to get Americans to fill the void when Trump deports all the immigrants?

And the extra social contributions this will add to restaurateurs social charges from the gubnmint?

And the much higher cost for the plate of swill you ordered?

If you actually understand what arithmetic is and know how to apply it - and if you answered "yes" to my three questions above - then you sound much like the lefties you were decrying earlier.

If you answered "no", then surprise me with your insight as in how to fill such a void....

First of all, let's be accurate with our language. Trump isn'T going to "deport all the immigrants". He is going to start deporting ILLEGAL immigrants. There is a difference, don't you think?

As for jobs: With a tighter labor market, there would be no need to raise the minimum wage. Employers would pay higher wages due to the relative scarcity of workers. If a lettuce farmer can't find people to pick lettuce for 7 bucks, he will raise the wage until he can attract workers. And yes, this cost would be passed on to the end consumer, as it should.

As for my plate of swill? Generally, labor costs are about 30% of revenue for a restaurant. Let's say that a restaurant has to pay 25% more to hire legal staff. That translates into a price increase of 7-8% to the customer. Very reasonable, I would say. I think most Americans would happily pay an extra dollar for their meal, knowing that the money went to their fellow citizens/legal residents.

Not to mention that the presence of illegal workers hurts the most vulnerable in society- those with high school (or lower) educations, the young who are trying to break into the job market, recent (legal) immigrants, etc.

Given the record low number of Americans who are actually working there is simply no need to import an underclass of people from outside.

First of all, let's be accurate with our language. Trump isn'T going to "deport all the immigrants". He is going to start deporting ILLEGAL immigrants. There is a difference, don't you think?

I'm glad you grasped that. Perhaps there's hope. Y'know people who discriminate often have exception to the rules - even Hitler had the odd special Jew that was tolerated. But I digress, and SuperLib already dealt with the impossibility and the insanity of policing your plan, let alone the negative knock-on effects.

As for my plate of swill? Generally, labor costs are about 30% of revenue for a restaurant. Let's say that a restaurant has to pay 25% more to hire legal staff.

"88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot" - Vic Reeves

And despite your trickle-down version of Republoconomics and figures you just invented on the spot for your case, who's to say Americans are actually going to get off their butts to work for and extra 25% of bugger all? Does this mean you are counting on Americans leaving their current jobs to take up a new life as a high-rolling swill server?

I think most Americans would happily pay an extra dollar for their meal, knowing that the money went to their fellow citizens/legal residents.

One dollar? OK. That doesn't seem to tally with the percentages you invented, it actually confirms suspect arithmetic.

The Trump lord and his alternative fact mouth-piece Comical Spicer have both refused to actually admit the US unemployment figure as it stands today. It's just over 4 percent FYI. Thanks to Barack Obama.

Do you know why they're refusing to even utter the statistic? Because in four years time the jobless situation will be worse (identical to the last Republican train-wreck) because of Trump's governance and that they wish to be able to deny it. Thanks for the laugh...

When you hire an employee, there are govt forms required. The employer need to physically see them. I had a company with just 5 people and we had these forms. The I-9 form is required. https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 There is also a website to validate the information is correct. If an employer uses that, they they shouldn't be liable if someone is illegally working. OTOH, if they do not, throw the book at them for tax evasion and failing to follow USCIS laws.

I think the Lefty's idea of declaring themselves sanctuary restaurants is a brilliant idea. Makes things easier for Trumps' immigration enforcement efforts.

@Madverts: The European left have always done this but the operation has now been seized lock-stock by the screaming right both in the US and somewhat in the UK. I pissed my life up the wall and I want my white privilege back dammit!

What are you talking about? And why attack white people based on their race? Its disgusting. The vast majority of whites people just want to live their lives and to be treated the same as anybody else. All this made up garbage about "white privilege" is simply a euphemism to discriminate against people who are the new "out" group. It's sickening - quit it.

So clearly you support a much higher minimum wage to get Americans to fill the void when Trump deports all the immigrants?

Wow that is just so dense. The Left decries unregulated capitalism yet wants to help out by colluding with businesses by flooding the market with cheap labor leaving the rest of society worse off. What's so hard to understand about obeying the same laws that all other counties have? What is so terrible about having a well regulated labor system? Canada doesn't have a problem with that concept yet no one goes around calling them horrible bigots.

The Left says they want higher wages but only by artificial means. They do not want them if it delays the importation of millions of future Socialist voters. That's what they really mean when they say they want to protect illegal immigrants by thwarting the efforts of law enforcement. It's as simple as the ends justifying the means.

Madverts, I got my stats from the small business association. If you have other figures, please feel free to present them.

Again, please pay attention.

I didn't say that wages would rise 25%. I said that the cost of labor would rise by that number. Industry statistics estimate that somewhere between 10-20% of all restaurant workers are illegals. Now YOU do the math and see what the average wage increase for those jobs would be.

My estimate of a dollar rise in the cost of a meal is based on this: Average meal cost of $15. Assume 30% of that cost is from labor- $4.50. Assume labor costs go up by 25%: 25% of $4.50 is $1.12. See, it's not hard. Again, if you have different estimates, I'd love to see them.

The unemployment rate has little to do with how many people are actually working. It doesn't include those who have been unemployed for so long that they have given up looking for work, for example. A much more accurate measure is workforce participation. It is hovering around 63%, the lowest level in decades. There is a huge pool of potential workers who are not working, and should be given the opportunity.

Most of these questions and issues would be eliminated if "Kate's Law" were passed and enforced. The law was proposed after a illegal alien re-entered the USA multiple times after having been deported. The citizens of the USA just want safety just as every citizen in other countries want. The alien murdered a woman in San Francisco. The SF police department released him. The prisons have convicted illegal aliens who are actually living better than in their home countries. The USA does not have real work visas, so the only way for many people to enter the USA is to slip through the border. If a criminal can re-enter multiple times, why can't a terrorist enter once?

"There ARE jobs that Americans won't do for the wage that is offered. However they WOULD do them for higher salary. "

and the cost will rise 'bigly', and the restaurants go belly up one after another, espeically in today's economics. it's a far more complex problem than immigration itself.

the other guy was right, america (and the western world in general) have been living beyond their means for far too long. and they are stagnant while the other countries like the BRIC are catching up and gradually taking their lunches.

the illegal immigrants, however how you despise them, they are the main reason you can still (somehow) maintain your lifestyle because they are willing to work for survival.

The Donald Trump said he will deport all criminals. so don't commit crime. I don't think Police will check all Latino, African and Asian look a like person in the street.