Jan 6 rioters accused of erasing content from social media, phones

@Burning Bush

"accused of erasing"

We're not allowed to delete our pictures anymore?

Who owns the pictures?

Deleting evidence in an attempt to hinder an ongoing in investigation to cover up a crime is illegal, but you already knew that.

What were you trying to imply, again?

“It makes them look tricky, makes them look sneaky,” said Gabriel J. Chin, who teaches criminal law at the University of California, Davis

Tricky and Sneaky might sound mild if you look at the other characteristics of these bigots and criminals.

We're not allowed to delete our pictures anymore?

Not sure how they do things in Russia but in the US trying to erase evidence of crimes is a crime.

They can not force you not to delete a selfie of yourself.

If that selfie is of you trying to commit a crime they can.

As I said US laws are different from those in Russia!!!

@burning bush

If the court wants to use pictures as evidence they can seize the phone with a court order.

They can not force you not to delete a selfie of yourself.

Photos can be completely and permanently erased from smartphones if done properly. Facebook and Twitter photos being posted all over the internet are not the same as saving on smartphones.

Your logic makes no sense. Try again!

In most countries, where human rights are respected, pictures belong to the people who take them, not the government, unless seized via legal court order.

In most countries trying to overthrow a democracy is considered a serious crime.

Though that might not be the case in brutal dictatorships like Russia.

Just put these Trump supporting losers in cages where they belong.

The new excuse when liberals can’t find evidence- it must have been deleted!

they should have wiped it. With a cloth. That’s more than fine.

“It makes them look tricky, makes them look sneaky,” said Gabriel J. Chin, who teaches criminal law at the University of California, Davis.

Makes them look stupid.

Otherwise, people can delete their own pictures whenever they feel like it.

Of course you can. But if those pictures are self incriminating then man up and own it. They weren’t shy about sharing them 6 months ago, why so timid and ashamed now? Buyers remorse?

BlacklabelToday  08:25 am JST

The new excuse when liberals can’t find evidence- it must have been deleted!

So if you'd committed a crime and there was evidence of it on your phone, you'd just leave it there?

However, everyone's knows that treason is a crime and going to the capitol to storm the government building to physically stop a democratically, fairly and legally elected president for being certified and put the former president back in control because your favorite lost is illegal.

Please for the sake of accuracy be careful with accusations of treason. Because of how the British abused that crime to punish political opposition to the crown when the US was still 13 separate British colonies, treason is the one and only crime explicitly defined in the US Constitution. And as a result of British abuses of the the term, it is very narrowly defined as waging war on the US. Here is the exact wording from Article 3, Paragraph 3 of the US Constitution.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted."

Nothing that happened on 6 January 2021 meets the standard for treason set by the US Constitution. Insurrection? Yes. Treason? No. And I am saying this as someone who is firmly liberal in my disposition. Political dissent is not treason, and that applies to both liberal and conservative political dissent.

It's easier to erase photos than expunge the hair-raising notions that have addled the brains of millions after years of their constant exposure to the toxic right-wing ideology of American exceptionalism espoused and touted by a slew of unprincipled and unscrupulous politicians who know how to exploit the inexhaustible gullibility of the ignorant.

If I have not been charged with a crime and if it’s not company or government regulations that I have to archive it....any photos, posts, emails are mine and I can do what I like with them.

The new excuse when liberals can’t find evidence- it must have been deleted!

The old excuse when you don’t like something; make it up.

Read the article first, it’ll help further inform your comments.

The new excuse when liberals can’t find evidence- it must have been deleted!

they should have wiped it. With a cloth. That’s more than fine.

You are missing something. The suspects tried to eliminate the evidence but were ultimately unsuccessful. Their tweets and Facebook posts were saved and serve as evidence against them. It is not a case of evidence being invented. Rather it is a case of the suspects trying to erase evidence witnesses offered prosecutors from their own digital media.

Just put these Trump supporting losers in cages where they belong.

Without evidence of crimes, a fair public trial and adherence to due process your nation devolves into nothing better than the PRC or some less developed dictatorship. If prosecutors have sufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond doubt then they will serve time in accordance with the law, and the public will have confidence that the law is applied justly and fairly, meaning those who are convicted really did break laws and the punishment fits the crimes. Fair public trials in politically independent courts are one of the great strengths of the US form of government.

In most countries, where human rights are respected, pictures belong to the people who take them, not the government, unless seized via legal court order.

That is only true of you do not post your images on the internet. These bozos posted pictures of themselves charging through the halls of Congress and in some cases openly made threats of violence against individual members of Congress and the Vice President. Once you post something like that it has no expectation of privacy and is not protected by the 4th Amendment.

You miss the point. These people are being accused of deleting things before they were charged with any crime.

well it’s good if prosecutors could recover what they needed. But you can’t then say deleting it prior to be charged with a crime shows some type of evasive intent or remorse.

Agree, but why is the left saying a person should not be allowed to delete the same content on their own phones and on their own accounts?

Where? Who is saying that?

The FBI. For simply not adding iCloud back to a new phone. I also didn’t when I got a new phone. Is that nefarious?

The FBI said one woman who posted video and comments showing she was inside the Capitol during the attack later decided not to restore her new phone with her iCloud content — a move that authorities suspect was aimed at preventing them from uncovering the material.

The FBI are the left?

Also the FBI said she shouldn’t delete her content or update it?

You seem to misunderstand. No one has said you can’t control your own content. No one.

They flaunted their participation in the Jan 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol on social media and then, apparently realizing they were in legal trouble, rushed to delete evidence of it, authorities say. Now their attempts to cover up their role in the deadly siege are likely to come back to haunt them in court.

Good. Put these dogs in cages.

“You can’t delete evidence if you don’t know you are being charged with anything,” Breite said.

This 1000x.

Until you are officially served with legal papers or taken into custody, it isn't "evidence."

Having a "Data Retention Policy" certainly would be good, assuming you follow it.

Attempting to obscure evidence of a crime is obstruction of justice, period. Something Don the con will probably learn soon.

These idiots were dumb enough to take pictures of themselves committing an act of sedition. Now they are dumb enough to believe that the FBI doesn't already have their GPS data to know exactly where and when they were committing crimes in the capital.

I would say that it's head-slappingly stupid, but to be fair, they are trump supporters.

The FBI are the left?

closely aligned with the left and walking lock step together in supportive of their narratives.

Also the FBI said she shouldn’t delete her content or update it?

no but they are claiming evasiveness just because she didn’t reconnect her iCloud on a new phone. So you can delete or choose not to reconnect it sure. But the FBI will try to establish some motives or intentions if you do. That’s the issue.

Again what is the accusation?

the headline tells us:

Jan 6 rioters accused of erasing content from social media, phones

well it’s good if prosecutors could recover what they needed. But you can’t then say deleting it prior to be charged with a crime shows some type of evasive intent or remorse.

Destruction of evidence of a crime is itself a crime.

not if there is no crime alleged at the time when you delete it.

come on, this isn’t that hard.

Even if you were 2000 miles away in your own home during the 6 January 2021 insurrection, attempting to destroy incriminating posts and images from the internet, even if they were not yours, would be a crime. All of those posts, images and videos are legitimate evidence. Nobody anywhere for any reason many legally destroy that evidence. It is a crime to do so regardless of where you were on 6 January 2021.

not if there is no crime alleged at the time when you delete it. 

come on, this isn’t that hard.

They are defendants in a criminal investigation, not you and your bbq photos.

If a murderer wasn’t charged at the time are you saying disposing of the body is inadmissible as evidence?

Come on, this isn’t that hard.

Only in MAGA-world do you plan your insurrection online for all to see, go there posting pics and videos of you assaulting police officers and destroying property, chant "Hang Mike Pence" while holding a noose, and scream in the Capitol well while wearing your fur hat and horns....

And them claim...."I'm innocent, I'm a victim of Foxitis".....

They weren’t when they deleted them.

They are defendants in a criminal investigation, not you and your bbq photos.

yo, burningbush & blacklabel, so you think it was perfectly ok for the e-mail lady to erase her home server?

lol

Again what is the accusation?

Oh where to begin? Destruction of property, Assault, Assault on a police officer insurrection, DEFECATION, unlawful entry, sedition, And that is just off the top of my head without coffee.

Do you really think things through before you say them out loud? Because it kinda sounds like you don't.

No because they were government records required to be retained. They were also under subpoena at the time of deletion.

so why is all that ok to posters here? But these people can’t delete their personal photos and posts without it supposedly proving their “guilt”?

I know why! Do you?

I predict that this thread will be closed down by 10am today.

LAUGHABLE.

@Blacklabel and Burning Bush

If authorities had evidence that an individual of interest in a murder case had hidden a bloodstained knife, is it not common sense that they should investigate that individual and try and retrieve said knife?

Why would authorities want to do that? Well, the knife could hold important DNA evidence from the victim as well as the attacker. It could also have other forensic evidence useful for a future prosecution. Locating the knife could also mean finding other important evidence near it, such as blood drops or fingerprints on a wall etc.

Why am I saying all this? Well, it's kind of the same situation here. Authorities have evidence suggesting certain people were engaging in certain criminal activities at the Capitol. Investigations have found that some people have deleted evidence of this from their devices. There is nothing illegal in deleting a photo, just as there is nothing illegal in burying a knife in your garden. However, if the missing knife was believed used in a murder, then it becomes a different story. The deleted photos contain important meta data that prove location, time, and ownership etc. What other possible evidence was deleted at the same time as these photos?

Once again, it's perfectly fine to delete photos from your devices. 99.9% of all deleted photos probably don't show evidence of crimes. What is different here is that these photos allegedly do, and people's behaviour and actions regarding evidence pre, during, and post crime are regularly used to show knowledge and intent (or lack of) during a future prosecution.

Again what is the accusation?

the headline tells us:

Jan 6 rioters accused of erasing content from social media, phones

Most things in life are slightly more complex than what can fit in a news headline.

so why is all that ok to posters here? But these people can’t delete their personal photos and posts without it supposedly proving their “guilt”?

Who said it is ok?

If someone had a video of themselves taking drugs with hookers on their laptop but hadn’t been charged with any crime, would it be ok to delete that too?

I seem to recall you were rather hanging your hopes on a particular laptop’s contents a short while back.

They weren’t when they deleted them.

Deleting the images was a crime as I have explained above.

If it's her content she can copy, paste or erase as she pleases.

Not when you are doing so with evidence of a crime.

can’t wait for someone to say all they deleted was recipes, yoga routines and wedding plans.

Had no idea erasing my phone’s content content is a crime....wow!

The willful disregard or just gross ignorance of criminal law typifies the reactionary response to charges based on evidentiary rules. The inability to comprehend such, purposefully so, to fit a narrative that is at best magical thinking and more so a poorly constructed argument to avoid addressing the reality of a criminal act reflects a foolish and somewhat demented attempt to justify a variety of simply illegal and dumb acts on federal property.

The clown car revolution, a four hour incursion of the Capitol, ill-planned and more a group of jackals intent on vandalism was celebrated and photographed and posted on so-called social media. With the pretense it was some queerly imagined noble endeavor, in support of a rather mad notion the election cold be halted and the losing candidate somehow elevated into office. Which is to be generous.

Gathering evidence of a crime, that evidence, of course precedes the indictment. Supporters of the vandals claiming that it has no relevance because it was prior to charges being levelled is quite amusing. The incredibly dumb logic is simply witless and stupid. Whatever the failing of the legal system in the USA and its intrusive efforts, aided by media conglomerates, the arguments advanced by those who would be in league with the rioters are basely silly and bear no relevance to the actual application of the law.

Claiming the FBI, is a Leftist organization completely ignores its history and current status. Besides being an indication of a less than savvy mindset and lack of reason. Illustrating a rather gross divorce from reality.

Had no idea erasing my phone’s content content is a crime....wow!

You live and learn.

@Richard Gallagher - Well said.

Unfortunately certain posters on here are only interested in defending their 'side', no matter what mental gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty that requires.

The willful disregard or just gross ignorance of criminal law typifies the reactionary response to charges based on evidentiary rules. The inability to comprehend such, purposefully so, to fit a narrative that is at best magical thinking and more so a poorly constructed argument to avoid addressing the reality of a criminal act reflects a foolish and somewhat demented attempt to justify a variety of simply illegal and dumb acts on federal property.

The clown car revolution, a four hour incursion of the Capitol, ill-planned and more a group of jackals intent on vandalism was celebrated and photographed and posted on so-called social media. 

Rarely does one see prose of this level in the comments section.

I tip my hat to you sir/madam.

P. SmithToday  10:52 am JST

Destruction of evidence is an indication of guilt, not an admission of guilt.

Really? Is this another 'opinion'?

P. SmithToday  10:52 am JST

Given they accused knew they were committing crimes in such a public manner, it’s safe to impute them with knowledge they would be charged with crimes. It strains beleif that anyone is still trying to defend the actions of these people.

Who said they knew they were committing crimes?

Only a handful of the more than 500 people across the U.S. who have been arrested in the riot have actually been charged with tampering for deleting incriminating material from their phones or Facebook accounts.

Charged, but not even found guilty, so still presumed innocent.

Who said they knew they were committing crimes?

Um, anyone with eyes and a basic level of cognition? I realize the latter rules out most Trump supporters.

All this anti-government venting and ranting over the people's constitutional right to selfies seems much ado about nothing in light of the the deeply troubling reality of the US government's egregious mass surveillance of its citizens over the last TWENTY years. Since 2001 the people's pushback against the anti-democratic direction of life in America has had all the impact of a mouse squeak on a cat. It could be argued that the shameful and embarrassing January "insurrection" was just what emerged from the murky bottle of anger and frustration uncorked by 4 years of grooming listening to the relentless drumbeat and gongs of "Trumpspeak".

You live and learn

So much for much for democracy and private information.

Good point, until you consider the facts that your client took photos of himself committing crimes, along with his other Trump supporting insurrectionists. 

It wasn’t an insurrection, but trespassing is not a crime to keep someone locked up for months without due process.

Given they accused knew they were committing crimes in such a public manner, it’s safe to impute them with knowledge they would be charged with crimes.

Trespassing is not a serious crime, unlawful entry is a bit heavier

It strains beleif that anyone is still trying to defend the actions of these people

No one is defending the actions of that day, but the lefts attempt to deflect from last summer riots and to make Jan 6. the darkest day in the US since 9/11 is just embarrassingly nutty. Democrats refuse to put events in their proper context.

So much for much for democracy and private information.

I think you may need to 'live and learn' a bit more in order to understand what has and hasn't gone on here.

Neither of these things have been impeded by investigating the people storming the Capitol building.

Everyone has a democratic right to protest. Nobody has a democratic right to participate in an attempted insurrection.

Everyone has a right to delete photos from their personal devices. Nobody has a democratic right to destroy evidence of a crime and not be prosecuted for doing so.

There are countless examples I could give of 'your side' making sweeping claims about 'the other side' without any evidence at all. There are many instances where 'your side' demanded prosecutions, investigations, halting of investigations, seizing of hard drives, immediate locking ups, overturning of elections, prosecutions of rioters etc. etc. It is hugely ironic that 'your side' weren't interested in the democratic process or the protection of private information throughout all those events.

HBJToday  11:47 am JST

Everyone has a democratic right to protest. Nobody has a democratic right to participate in an attempted insurrection. 

There wasn't one. Anyone upset at the looting, brings of buildings and police cars, snd homicides committed by BLM protesters? The Capitol protest was directed against a government institution. The BLM 'protesters' attacked private property, ordinary citizens---that is scary for families who lived in those areas where the 100's of 'protests' took place.

HBJToday  11:47 am JST

Everyone has a right to delete photos from their personal devices. Nobody has a democratic right to destroy evidence of a crime and not be prosecuted for doing so.

Innocent until proven guilty though, And as the article states, there are only handful being charged with doing so. No big deal.

It wasn’t an insurrection, but trespassing is not a crime to keep someone locked up for months without due process.

Thats exactly what it was. It was an unlawful violent attempt to overthrow the elected government of the United States of America.

The fact that they sucked at it does not change the nature of the criminality.

We all saw it on live tv.

On the other hand, keeping accused in jail because their documented statements and actions make them an objective danger to the public is entirely in keeping with American jurisprudence.

Again, perhaps you’d be happier in Russia? You seem to have a thing for totalitarian dictators with no respect for the rule of law.

Ignorance of the law seems alarmingly common for the ‘law and order’ team.

That’s how a fast growing majority in the country are starting to feel like.

Again, not factually accurate as Joe won significantly more votes. But Trump supporters make victimhood a profession.

Everyone has a democratic right to protest. Nobody has a democratic right to participate in an attempted insurrection. 

But it wasn’t an insurrection.

Everyone has a right to delete photos from their personal devices. Nobody has a democratic right to destroy evidence of a crime and not be prosecuted for doing so. 

But this White House won’t allow the public to view 4 hours of what exactly happened in the Capitol. We are just supposed to take their word for it because it’s the Biden administration? Lol

There are countless examples I could give of 'your side' making sweeping claims about 'the other side' without any evidence at all.

Same here.

There are many instances where 'your side' demanded prosecutions, investigations, halting of investigations, seizing of hard drives, immediate locking ups, overturning of elections, prosecutions of rioters etc. etc. It is hugely ironic that 'your side' weren't interested in the democratic process or the protection of private information throughout all those events.

But the big difference on this, no one was locked up in the way these people are and it was only back when Obama was President that the Dems had the utmost contempt for the Intel agency and spying, now they embrace the very people that looked down on for years and years. Uh-huh...

These people would have a lot more credibility if they chose to be more transparent with this and they’re not and they know it because if they were and felt completely justified they would easily show the tape that every American has the right to see because the Capitol belongs to ALL Americans, not the government.

Ignorance of the law seems alarmingly common for the ‘law and order’ team.

True, but in MAGA-Land, "law and order" is now "law and auto", at least according to Trump at his recent Ohio rally...

https://www.goldderby.com/article/2021/stephen-colbert-trump-rally/

But it wasn’t an insurrection

Except it was. The fact that they sucked doesn’t change what we all saw on live tv.

You’re attempting to gaslight and it’s not going to work.

Except it was.

No, it wasn’t, not according to Biden’s DOJ.

You’re attempting to gaslight and it’s not going to work.

No, I’m just stating what Biden’s own DOJ stated.

a violent uprising against an authority or government.

If that were so, then the DOJ could have easily charged them with that, but since they didn’t and the events of that day didn't add up to an insurrection, the only legal thing they could have cited them with is, trespassing, so they all should be out very soon.

Nobody is being denied due process.

Then they wouldn’t be held in solitary confinement and they will be allowed to see a lawyer, if that were the case

Says the poster that is defending the insurrectionists by trying to minimize their actions via irrelevant deflection to the summer riots.

I am NOT defending their actions, I would hope the same from liberals during the last summer riots. Anyway, a trespassing charge will get this people out and they should get the best lawyers and sue the pants off them for denying their 1st amendment rights.

Anyone arguing that the mob who rioted at the instigation of the former guy did not commit acts of insurrection is not living in reality.

It happened. It happened on live tv. They chanted “Hang Mike Pence.”

They claimed (again, on camera) that they were there at the invitation of Trump.

They bear sprayed police. They tore off riot police masks. They smeared crap on the walls.

Everyone has a democratic right to protest. Nobody has a democratic right to participate in an attempted insurrection. 

But it wasn’t an insurrection.

Boy, someone needs to tell that to the pro-Trump group that brought their noose and were chanting "hang Mike Pence"...

Everyone has a right to delete photos from their personal devices. Nobody has a democratic right to destroy evidence of a crime and not be prosecuted for doing so. 

But this White House won’t allow the public to view 4 hours of what exactly happened in the Capitol. We are just supposed to take their word for it because it’s the Biden administration? Lol

You need to watch this....just don't close your eyes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWJVMoe7OY0

There are many instances where 'your side' demanded prosecutions, investigations, halting of investigations, seizing of hard drives, immediate locking ups, overturning of elections, prosecutions of rioters etc. etc. It is hugely ironic that 'your side' weren't interested in the democratic process or the protection of private information throughout all those events.

But the big difference on this, no one was locked up in the way these people are and it was only back when Obama was President that the Dems had the utmost contempt for the Intel agency and spying, now they embrace the very people that looked down on for years and years. Uh-huh...

In other words, Hillary and Obama tried to destroy our democracy because he wore a tan suit and she didn't leave Bill, and Hunter caused the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and Schumer likes orange ice cream. There, that's my reply...

closely aligned with the left and walking lock step together in supportive of their narratives.

The right wing has more loyalty to Russia than their own country, what a surprise.

There’s no surprise they are ignorant of the law, that’s what made them the right wing,

To claim that the people who wanted to hang the VP are patriots is beyond ignorance, it’s a sign of an illness!!!

Trump's failed Beer Hall Putsch. Thank goodness it failed, but is America in more danger the next time radicals attempt to take over the government. For Hitler, the second time around was a charm.

One person was killed by a capitol police officer who has not been charged nor any other information released. When will that deadly act be brought to light?

she was shot and killed after she attempted to breach the last line of defense by a law enforcement officer who was visible The shooting was investigated and ruled justified. Just because you cannot be bothered to learn basic publicly available facts does not make it “mysterious”

And as someone who watched it live, I couldn’t help but notice how all those “patriots” (meaning cowards) let a woman storm the breach and then how they suddenly decided that maybe hanging Mike Pence wasn’t such a good idea after all.