Russia attacks in east Ukraine; appears to scale back war aims

There has been no change in Russia's aims. They have been the same and clear from day one. The actual borders have never been stated but the pull back from Kherson clearly shows the natural border of the Dnieper river will be the border. In the east the probably 20-30 km east of Bahkmut.

There has been no change in Russia's aims. They have been the same and clear from day one.

An exceedingly easily disproven claim. Why make it?

There has been no change in Russia's aims. 

‘De-Nazify’ was the original stated aim and you bloody well know it.

You seem to have a direct line into Putin's mind, Mr Kipling. Tell us, does he have a Napoleon complex?

This is a war of attrition. Make no mistake about that. As long Russia has oil and gas, they can keep it going. All they had to do is hunker down and wait for the West to get tired of supporting Ukraine financially and stop sending military aid. A long cold winter and high inflation along with rising prices is eventually gonna break Europe and force them to beg Ukraine to sue for peace. This is a inevitable outcome.

Zelenskyy only has one road ahead for him. His army has to quickly conquer as much land as possible by the end of the year before Europe buckle from the financial crisis and lose interest in supporting him next year. Currently the NATO and US is already running low on weapons and battling a economic crisis. There are already signs they want Ukraine and Russia to enter a peace treaty already. There is just no way Zelenskyy can take back Crimea or most of the regions that are lost anymore. Not to mention there is still the whole rebuilding aftermath

Putin drinking champagne says the destruction of the Ukraine power system is in return for the attack on the Crimea bridge. Different than military ops.

dealt Moscow a reputational blow 

Russia's reputation remains high with those favoring fascistic systems, with most others it remains little changed, because Russia has long been viewed as a barbaric nation run by nasty creatures. Russia's wars against its 'own' people in Chechnya, plus attacks in Georgia and Syria, added to the terrorism of USSR troops in WW2, and today in Libya and elsewhere have cemented Russia's reputation as a terroristic state. Yes what-abouters I'm well aware of the West's history of atrocities, there are many books written about them. I have found what has been done by those committing atrocities to be disgusting. Just like I find accounts of what Vlad's hordes and his allies have done to be disgusting.

All they had to do is hunker down and wait for the West to get tired of supporting Ukraine financially and stop sending military aid.

“This war cannot end with Russia's victory and the occupation of Ukraine... We must continue to support Ukraine," said the head of EU diplomacy, Josep Borrell

Russia never stated its aims. Before you were saying they were going to take ("liberate") Odessa...

There has been no change in Russia's aims. They have been the same and clear from day one. The actual borders have never been stated but the pull back from Kherson clearly shows the natural border of the Dnieper river will be the border. In the east the probably 20-30 km east of Bahkmut.

All they had to do is hunker down and wait for the West to get tired of supporting Ukraine financially and stop sending military aid. 

If that is the Russian strategy, they are going to lose.

The US just spent twenty years fighting a largely pointless war in Afghanistan. If it took them two decades to get tired of that - which was way more costly to the US in both financial and human terms, and with much less at stake for them strategically - it will be a very very long time before they stop sending aid to Ukraine.

I see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war, does this mean each and every Ukrainian is willing to follow zelensky and fight and die for his cause?

ian

I see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war, does this mean each and every Ukrainian is willing to follow zelensky and fight and die for his cause?

Yes.

War of attrition, Ukraine must kill Russians at a faster pace than Russians killing Ukrainians for Ukraine to win.

Unless there's direct intervention from outside

I see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war, does this mean each and every Ukrainian is willing to follow zelensky and fight and die for his cause?

I don't doubt that there are many Ukranians who are against the war and want a cessation at any cost.

However, I think more are in favour of not being invaded and their country obliterated, wouldn't you agree?

What would you do if your country was invaded by Russia? Would you give in?

They won’t stop it before the next near border of a country with capability of immediate nuclear counter strikes, meaning of course own weapons, not those rented or by others deployed ones that can only be used after longer phone calls, political discussions in NATO or so. As far as I know this is currently the French border, not the Ukrainian, not the Lithuanian, not the Finnish, not the Polish, not the German. So if you really quickly want to end it , yes you don’t, I know, but if, and also want to save the remaining parts of Ukraine, you simply have to deploy a few ones in the still unoccupied part of Ukraine, and that’s all to it. The other option with continuing conflict will be quite suicidal for all sides there, a complete economic and political downturn and chaos in all of Europe. EU , because they simply can’t handle the war support payments , followed by reconstruction costs and the anyway taking place of mass immigration influx, and of course the direct war parties Ukraine and Russia themselves, they’ll also both run out of quite everything. Those factors considered might then end the war too, but very much later, as it takes those politicians and warmongers much time to understand that everything is on stake, not only a few areas, villages and cities here or there.

War of attrition, Ukraine must kill Russians at a faster pace than Russians killing Ukrainians for Ukraine to win.

Is this some new 'war algorithm'? This doesn't need to happen. The war will end when one side decides that their losses outweigh their gains.

I'm betting that Russia is less willing to face years of dead boys being sent home and economic decline than Ukraine.

I see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war

I’m pretty sure I’ve read of Ukrainians talking against the Russian invasion of their country on a few occasions.

Ukraine must kill Russians at a faster pace than Russians killing Ukrainians for Ukraine to win.

and that is exactly what they are doing.

young Russian soldiers are dying like flies (or surrendering), and for what - Putin’s ego !?

Belarus authorities have increasingly spoken of a threat of what they call terrorism from partisans operating from across the border.

.

Would that be across the Belarus / Russian border ?

.

Who have attacked and how?

Russia-according your news-have no rockets,no chips,no bullets,no fuel,no weapons?

Or did they have attacked with wooden sticks?

Vladka explain!

I am very confused!

If he wasn't so awful, Putin would make me laugh. His latest nonsense is that Ukraine fighting back increases the chances of Russia using nuclear weapons. Right. Nuclear blackmail. Surrender, or we nuke you out of existence. That might work if Putin was the only one with nuclear weapons.

all of this could be avoided if west could listen russian counterpartner carefully and treat equally but yes we all know that it was not so here are consequences.

here is result of your approach dear west.

dont ever underestimate russians.

ask Napoleon of Hitler.they will tell you own stories.

I see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war

Virtually every Ukrainian is against this war, which is why they are doing their utmost to stop it by driving the warmongers from their land.

does this mean each and every Ukrainian is willing to follow zelensky and fight and die for his cause?

It isn't his cause, it's their cause. Zelensky is simply the man whose job it is is to coordinate efforts, and he is doing his job brilliantly.

I am very confused!

You're obviously at one with Vladimort, who at a recent awards ceremony at the Kremlin (what on earth can anyone in russia have done to earn an award??) vowed to continue attacking Ukraine's energy infrastructure despite millions being left without electricity or water.

"Yes, we do that. But who started it?" 

It seems Vlad's dementia is now so far gone that he does not remember that HE is the one who started it when he invaded Ukraine, first in 2014 and again in 2022.

And while justifying leaving millions of Ukrainians without power and water in the middle of winter "cos they started it" (they didn't), he gripes that Ukraine's cutting off of water to Donetsk is 'an act of genocide".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63907803

With all that cognitive dissonance rattling around inside his head, it's no wonder Vladimort has gone looney.

Negotiate peace, comedian president, before it's too late for you..

Pull your troops out, joke president, it's already too late for you...

all of this could be avoided if west could listen 

said by someone who has a huge chip on his shoulder against the west.

ask Napoleon of Hitler. they will tell you own stories.

fyi, those two distinguished people were invaders, same as Putin. This invasion will have a similar ending.

cleo

Zelensky is simply the man whose job it is is to coordinate efforts, and he is doing his job brilliantly.

Give me a break man.

But as irony its - brilliant.

Eastman

all of this could be avoided if west could listen russian counterpartner carefully and treat equally but yes we all know that it was not so here are consequences.

here is result of your approach dear west.

What are you talking about. Putin started an imperialist war of aggression on Ukraine. It has nothing to do with the west.

dont ever underestimate russians.

Don't ever underestimate Ukrainians!

ask Napoleon of Hitler.they will tell you own stories.

No they won't. They are dead.

Russia will not stop..

Negotiate peace, comedian president, before it's too late for you..

Ukraine will not stop..

Negotiate peace, psychotic delusional president, before it's too late for you..

I am very confused!

that’s putting it mildly

have another vodka comrade

But as irony its - brilliant.

Err, you might want to look up the definition of irony.

here’s an example ;

putin invades Ukraine with 1000 tanks.

ukraine captures half these tanks & uses them to destroy Russia’s remaining tanks - that’s irony !

peace will prevail.

its about time to 

why don’t you ever insist that Putin withdraw his army !?Peace would be instantaneous

or does that go against your anti-west mentality ?

the natural border of the Dnieper river will be the border.

”natural border” is an elusive term.

Defined by nature? Defined by the presence or lack of technology and will to overcome it?

”Defensible border” would be a better and purely military term. I wonder if the US-Canadian border might be redrawn on that basis?

 see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war

Virtually every Ukrainian is against this war, which is why they are doing their utmost to stop it by driving the warmongers from their land.

That's the only way? No one is entertaining other options? So everyone is in agreement that they should fight it out to the end.

Ian - I suppose Ukraine could surrender, but I don't think many Ukrainians are interested in that. Would you want your country to surrender to an invader?

ian

I see no reports of Ukrainians talking against this war, does this mean each and every Ukrainian is willing to follow zelensky and fight and die for his cause?

Yes.

Thanks

Ian - I suppose Ukraine could surrender, but I don't think many Ukrainians are interested in that. Would you want your country to surrender to an invader?

No.

I also think that there are more than 2 options to most situations

That's the only way? No one is entertaining other options?

Lay out some options for us. What settlement do you think would satisfy both nations given the current situation?

Ukraine wants it stolen lands back. Russia doesn't want to give them back. Ukraine wants Crimea back. Russia doesn't want to give it back. Where do they go?

Any long-term solution needs to start with Russia retreating to pre-February positions. With that done, maybe there is a hope for a longer term agreement on Crimea, reconstruction and future security guarantees.

Doesn't bode well for Ukraine if everyone has decided to fight it out to the end and not entertaining other options to end the war.

Because if for some reason the major supporters stop supporting them then they're all dead.

Of course it's also a certainty that support will not be withdrawn no matter what.

Ian - there is no Zone Of Possible Agreement currently. Maybe there will be some day, but not right now. You are right that support isn't going to dry up anytime soon, though. Most people know right and wrong when they see it.

"....each and every Ukrainian is willing to follow zelensky and fight and die for his cause?"

Wrong answer: they are fighting and dying for Ukraine, their homeland, their loved ones who are shelled each and every day by RuSSian marauders, who are killed, deported, raped!

Wonder what some of those here would do if they were in the same situation. Get on their knees and ask, beg Putin and his troops to please return to Russia? Surrender and live under a dictator? Lose their identity, their language, their culture because he, the dictator demands so.

As for me, no thank you! Ukraine is fighting a just war, imposed on them by Russian aggressors.

Ukraine will prevail!

Putin continues to target soft civilian ones.

Russia is building up for a huge offensive that will dwarf everything else they have done so far…

Cool, more free tanks!

Russia is building up for a huge offensive

considering 100’s of 1000’s of eligible men have fled the country, $$billions of military equipment has been lost, how is this ‘huge offensive’ going to materialise ?

hitler was just as delusional in his last days in the bunker.

Cool, more free tanks!

bahaha - pure gold

Lay out some options for us. What settlement do you think would satisfy both nations given the current situation?

You're talking as if the situation involves only both nations

If they were the only ones involved the conflict would have been finished in days with a minimum of bloodshed

Russia is building up for a huge offensive that will dwarf everything else they have done so far…

The Moscow midget about to dwarf something, eh?

That’ll be a first.