Russia reports attacks on oil refineries and town near border with Ukraine

and if you dont want a response to an action? 

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

I'm sorry the Ukrainians can't hear you over their air raid sirens going off EVERY NIGHT.

@basslabel and if you dont want a response to an action?

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

It sounds like the above poster is saying Russia should not have invaded Ukraine. If so I agree with them; Russia should not have started a war with Ukraine.

Wars are unpredictable. Russia shouldn't have started this one.

Cause and effect! This is the effect!

The only question is what disproportionate response Russia will take.

The Russians aren’t going to do anything they aren’t already doing because can’t.

They can’t take any significant territory. They can launch more air attacks than they are and they wouldn’t be less ineffective. They can’t even secure their own border thus they blew up a road leading from Ukraine.

So Ukrainian strikes on energy targets to shape the battle space can and will continue in advance of the counter offensive and that includes fuel facilities in S. Russia.

Russia and Russian held Ukrainian territory are both less safe because of the Russian invasion. It’s simple really.

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

I agree. Russia shouldn't have invaded Ukraine.

I am a pacifist,

Curious bunch these pacifists.

They don’t seem to mind Russia invading, but Ukraine defending drives them nuts.

Are we supposed to believe you?

Blacklabel

Nope. more like Ukraine should not have launched an attack on non military targets that killed civilians.

Really. The Russians have killed thousands of Ukrainians and abducted their children.

falseflagsteve

wallace

> Nope, make an agreement. The main point I’m making here that everyone seems to skirt around is the attacking Russian territory which this article mentions, something Zelensky said would not happen.

Putin is not interested in peace.

Then his lies to the world are ignored and excused, you have to have the same rules for both sides not your favoured one.

Putin is the one charged by the ICC accused of war crimes.

If it is true, why would Ukraine not attack Russia?

Almost Summer now, big delay

So you claim to be a pacifist and then are like WHERE IS THE BIG OFFENSIVE, TOUGH GUYS? One of these positions is not compatible with the other.

FFS

you fail to understand, Russia is the invader and aggressor killing thousands. Do you suggest Ukraine should just surrender?

Clear signs that Ukrainian patience with Putin is wearing thin fighting with one hand tied behind their back. Calling the attacks "terrorism", the poker-faced runty Russian will soon have much more explaining (gaslighting) to do as his "special operation" begins to boomerang onto the TV-addled civilian population of the aggressor nation.

Putin does not care about the UN Charter forbidding a member state from invading and attacking another. Putin does not care about the Geneva Convention and abducted thousands of Ukraine children. Putin does not care that Russia made a treaty with Ukraine not to attack it for the surrender of its nuclear weapons.

Putin is the one who cannot be trusted by word or deed.

Almost Summer now, big delay

Do you expect the enemy to attack where & when you want them to?

falseflagsteve

Almost Summer now, big delay

Just enough time to be lulled into a false sense of security. Crying wolf helps achieve this.

The actual article is the the Russians messed with the wrong country based on bad assumptions a crap army.

They've committed war crimes too numerous to mention thinking that if they murdered enough elderly and children, Ukrainians would give up.

They were wrong and now they’re about to reap what they sewed.

This is only the first taste.

As a pacifist, you should certainly understand why we can't allow wars of aggression to benefit the aggressor ffs. Anything that we incent or encourage, we will get more of, and that would be horrific for peace.

I don't understand why Russia gets angry when Ukraine blows up their buildings and such. Russia started this war. What did you think would happen? There would be peace for Russia? You reap what you sow. Keep on reaping putin. Keep on reaping...

and if you dont want a response to an action? 

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

You mean the initial action that happened on the 24th February last year?

ukraine just killed 5 innocent civilians in their attack on a village.

Russian-installed officials said five people had been killed 

Five people in a place occupied by russia, ie a battleground. If these had been civilians, the orcs would be screaming about 'Ukraine targeting civilians'. Instead they call them 'people'. Most likely russian military.

make an agreement

Or russia could try sticking to the agreements it has made in the past.

or is there some kind of allowable and morally acceptable quota for killing civilians just because “they were invaded”?

Obviously one isn't worried about civilian deaths when they write:

and if you dont want a response to an action?

Don’t take the initial action that requires one

No, for attacking and killing civilians like they just did.

If they have deliberately targeted and killed civilians, then it's disgusting. However, it is all a result of Russia's invasion, and Russia has been wantonly destroying civilian targets in Ukraine without any condemnation from you at all. You can't bring yourself to criticize Russia. Why is that?

Blacklabel

you scream ‘murder’ when 5 civilians are killed in Russia. I’ve not seen one post of yours condemning Russia for the 10’s of 1000’s of Ukrainian civilians killed.

the fact that you’re up in arms now speaks volumes.

as NATO circUS started to corner Russia,

I think you meant to say, ‘as countries bordering Russia plead to join NATO due to their justified fear of a Russian invasion.’

@richard

the only people in denial are those who think that this invasion, this war is justified

Oh very interesting how it's murder when Ukraine does it, but not the Russians.

And VERY interesting that Black only cares about these things when it's the fascists on the receiving end.

False,we will be talking about this lost cause on 12,31,23 Ukraine are only capable only of winning a PR war

what happened to July 4th?

quite weak. It’s “terrible” is a you have?

More than you've ever offered.

maybe Ukraine can be held accountable for that and maybe stop doing it?

Ukraine being held accountable for Russia's invasion? Daft. Maybe Russia could be held accountable for their own actions.

Neither sides has better morals than the other and cannot be trusted

No, one side launched the War of Aggression here and so is the bigger danger to the world.

Ukraine should hit every Russian logistics location they can to make the Russian army unable to move. Russia needs to leave. Putin and his top advisors turned over for war crime trials. Russian people need to start paying 10% of their GDP to Ukraine for the next 20 yrs, at least, so that Ukraine can rebuild.

If you don't start 'nuthin', there won't be 'nuthin'.

The only question is what disproportionate response Russia will take.

And Russia will do it, because it's a war.. 

It physically cannot. It’s a fat bloated mobster in a knock-off track suit whose viagra has worn off.

if it could, it would Can’t so won’t

A war that Russia will not lose..

Sure it will.

Russia has already lost, around 100,000-200,000 of its soldiers' lives.

For one man's ego.

And Russia will do it, because it's a war..

A war that Russia will not lose..

Ukraine is just bombing civilians. Get your act together. These are innocent people. 

and what about the innocent Ukrainian civilians who were not only killed, but raped & tortured ?

I believe the number is in the 10’s of 1000’s.

No compassion for them eh ?

2020hindsightsToday 08:33 am JST

falseflagsteve

2020

oh I see, thanks for your expert analysis.

Glad I could enlighten you. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

5( +6 / -1 )

The sarcasm is strong with these.

is there some kind of allowable and morally acceptable quota for killing civilians just because “they were invaded”?

Yes, actually. If your life is on the line as the life of Ukraine is, I imagine a whole lot of collateral damage will be excused.

falseflagsteve

2020

oh I see, thanks for your expert analysis.

Glad I could enlighten you. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

TokyoLivingToday  09:01 am JST

The only question is what disproportionate response Russia will take.

And Russia will do it, because it's a war.. 

A war that Russia will not lose..

Russia is pretty good at losing wars, though. WW1 and Afghanistan come to mind.

You need a history lesson, especially since the end of the second world war and as NATO circUS started to corner Russia, now we have the consequences..

This is why no one believes this isn't Russia striking out at Nato through a third country. Russia has a problem identifying its adversaries I would say. Perhaps they need to be taught a lesson that lashing out indiscriminately creates problems.

No, for attacking and killing civilians like they just did.

Oh wait a minute, you said,

and if you dont want a response to an action?

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

Does the same not apply to Russians who support this invasion?

@black

so accidentally killing 5 Russian civilians is murder, but deliberately killing, raping & torturing 1000’s of Ukraine citizens is ok - got it

It’s murder.

Oh very interesting how it's murder when Ukraine does it, but not the Russians.

In fact, you blame the Ukrainians for whatever response the Russians have. Pathetic.

EFD

Almost Summer now, big delay

Not summer yet. FYI, Summer starts 6/21. Come back then.

Curious bunch these pacifists. 

They don’t seem to mind Russia invading, but Ukraine defending drives them nuts.

Almost as curious as the self-proclaimed “concerned American tax-payers” who claim not to care who wins, only that American tax dollars are not wasted.

Strangely, they never seem to care when Ukrainians die, only Russians.

Curious indeed bordering on farcical.

I am with Fu.

Hand the Russians such an ass-kicking, er…”Strategic Defeat” that they don’t even think of crossing the line again. Not after they re-arm. Not after they get out from under the midget from Moscow. Not ever.

And if that means blowing up the fuel logistics in the rear, so be it.

The Russians can end this war by leaving, or they can end this war by dying and at this point, Id say the UA is indifferent between the two.

But the Russians ARE leaving.

killing 5 Russian civilians is murder

Nowhere in the article does it say that they are civilians.

They were in temporarily-occupied Ukraine. In a war zone. What were russian civilians doing in a war zone?

Let's be realistic and ask how is it possible you can positively confirm and validate that the innocent Russians civilians attacked actually support Putin's invasion of Ukraine ?

They were most likely Ukrainians (unless they were colonizers). And they were most likely accidentally killed, unless they were active collaborators. Unfortunate, but again this is a war, and civilians are killed in every war, which is why Russia shouldn't have started one.

@Clay

Still Putin's War

EU maintains support for Ukraine as shown by the very recent visits to Germany, France, and Itlay by Zelenskyy with all offering more military support.

Rodney - are you starting to have second thoughts about Putin's invasion?

So many people in denial about the coup installed Kiev regime starting to use artillery, tanks, machine guns and bombs to kill Ukrainian civilians almost a decade earlier than Russia.

Russian armed separatists had nothing to do with it. Nothing at all. Nope. Nothing. La la la la la.

Russia's actions don't justify don't justify the Ukrainians doing the same.

Do you mean Russia's invasion?

Blacklabel - these are most likely Ukrainian civilians who were killed as I said above if the Russian-appointed official is even telling the truth. And we don't have any further details on this incident yet. Maybe you have additional info? I'm not seeing your usual skepticism of official claims this time around for some reason.

Just a couple of days ago, a court in Donetsk convicted an Azov fighter for the deliberate murder of 4 civilians in Mariupol.

Why were Russian civilians in temporariliy occupied Ukraine pray tell?

The Fu,you are about naive as they come

The Fu has the ability to use grammar and punctuation in addition to being correct on the facts.

Try either of those and then come back to us.

I agree with you black that if indeed the attacks coming from Ukraine are targeting non military innocent civilians farms and villages that those are also war crimes.

When Ukraine targets a maternity hospital marked as such, bombs a museum with "CHILDREN" in ginormous letters, or shoots babushkas in the head with their hands wired together behind their backs and then leaves them in the streets, come on back.

Until then, you only reveal yourself to be an expert in moral equivalence.

Perhaps they need to be taught a lesson that lashing out indiscriminately creates problems.

Perhaps that's something oneself might contemplate retrospectively

Would if they could but they can't. So they won't

Breaking News

The counteroffensive has started.

Recently rested, regrouped, reequipped and redeployed Akhmat special ops force are attacking near the town of Marinka.

5th motorized rifle brigade and an Akhmat special forces unit are attacking around 30km west of the Donetsk. More units involved.

because it is.

Is murder or is it：

and if you dont want a response to an action?

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

Update on those Moscow drone attacks.

In his address Putin mentioned an "intelligence" structure was hit just prior. Kyrylo Budanov made threats online about Moscow.

Well images of the HQ of the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine on Rybalskyi Island in Kyiv (coordinates 50°28'15.5"N 30°31'43.2"E) have made it onto social media. It's clearly been hit in a strike. Another video shows a PAC interceptor crashing into the river very close to the shore.

Accidentally? Says who?

People die in high sides, mostly innocent people. We see people taking one side or the other wishing for for more death, relishing in at a times.

I find it appalling as a pacifist

Dehumanisation of people is easily dine in modern times by the media and governments whereas deaths on one side mean nothing, they are not humans but causalities of the opposing side.

Hiw have humans become so dumb in glorifying this?

So many people in denial about the coup installed Kiev regime starting to use artillery, tanks, machine guns and bombs to kill Ukrainian civilians almost a decade earlier than Russia.

Are we referring to Kyiv installed officials, but not designating them that way for some reason, or is it just the local leaders in places Zelensky can't control that are demeaned by implying that the local leaders aren't the choice of the population that lives there?

Ukraine being held accountable for Russia's invasion?

No, for attacking and killing civilians like they just did.

Is murder or is it

It’s murder.

More uncontrolled uncontained Escalation & WMD proliferation continues nonstop, as Ukraine hollows out daily with US NATO Ukraine Proxy War led global destabilization driving China's unprecedented modern era Global Leadership & Stability role.

Meanwhile excluding China, global starvation, inflation and economic damage continues.

More and more political leadership and citizens across world growing in their desire to find durable compromise-based peace, as the war mongers are running out time.

is this how UA "spring" offensive looks like?

UA have no chance to win over Russia in any case.this is fact supported by reality on the ground.

there is no military solution for this conflict..Russia have no plan to take over remaining parts of Ukraine.UA have no power to get previously owned pieces of land by military force.

one and only solution is peace negotiation.UA citizens are hostages of Kiev regime fantasies about some spring offensives or defeating of Russia by military forces.

people behind this conflict have to understand that they have no chance to win over Russia.

all clear now.longer Kiev regime will continue beg for guns from west and send new soldiers to die and destroy own country and infrastructure more-longer this conflict will continue.

sad that all of western backers of corrupted Kiev regime wont see that.

sore dake desu.

deliberately killing, raping & torturing 1000’s of Ukraine citizens is ok - got it

What you really know about its battle???!! About real deliberately killing, raping and torturing!

Just a couple of days ago, a court in Donetsk convicted an Azov fighter for the deliberate murder of 4 civilians in Mariupol. Convicted for life. And there are a lot of such cases of murder and torture on the territory of Donbass by ukraniens being investigated now. If you read only JT, you will never know the truth at all.. Your Patriots have already done things in Kiev. In the telegram there are several videos of how the fragments of Patriot shells are smashed on the streets of Kiev maybe killing maybe destroying , I don't know, they are short... taking videos are prohibited in Ukraine: Zel regime wants to hide its crimes

The only question is what disproportionate response Russia will take.

And Russia will do it, because it's a war..

A war that Russia will not lose..

I don't understand why Russia gets angry when Ukraine blows up their buildings and such. Russia started this war. What did you think would happen? There would be peace for Russia? You reap what you sow. Keep on reaping putin. Keep on reaping....

You need a history lesson, especially since the end of the second world war and as NATO circUS started to corner Russia, now we have the consequences..

you scream ‘murder’ when 5 civilians are killed in Russia

because it is.

Oh very interesting how it's murder when Ukraine does it, but not the Russians.

So is it murder now when Ukrainians do it?

I haven’t seen that acknowledgment, just a terrible and an unfortunate and a lot of actual support for doing it.

UChose

Its nit the point I’m making. Zelensky was taking the moral high ground saying onky disputed territories would be attacked and he has lied. In this instance I’m not talking about the war itself but how about how neither leaders can be trusted to keep their word

I have proved Zelensky to be a liar, we all know Putin has done, don’t see the problem with dealing with facts not rhetoric

2020

oh I see, thanks for your expert analysis.

Glad to see this will all be over soon

Russia get your act together. Ukraine is just bombing civilians. Get your act together. These are innocent people. Not part of an Anglo-Saxon geopolitical war.

Opps, I meant after the us backed coup against the democratically elected govt. after the coup.

False,we will be talking about this lost cause on 12,31,23 Ukraine are only capable only of winning a PR war

EFD

Almost Summer now, big delay

Taiwan

I am a pacifist, just relaying the facts and truth for people to make their own judgements

Sorry if this doesn’t agree with you but I’m not making anything up or encouraging war or further deaths

quite weak. It’s “terrible” is a you have?

maybe Ukraine can be held accountable for that and maybe stop doing it?

or is there some kind of allowable and morally acceptable quota for killing civilians just because “they were invaded”?

As I’ve said multiple times both sides cannot be trusted

Mr Zelensky promised he wouldn’t attack Russian territory, in desperation as well as things not going as he planned ie no Spring Offensive he is doing that

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/volodymyr-zelenskyy-ukraine-president-counteroffensive-russia/#textAsked20about20the20report2C20Zelenskyywhich20we20could20do20this22

Neither sides has better morals than the other and cannot be trusted

No that’s not the only question.

and if you dont want a response to an action?

Don’t take the initial action that requires one.

Nope. more like Ukraine should not have launched an attack on non military targets that killed civilians.

five people had been killed in Ukrainian army shelling of a Russian-occupied village in the east,

is this ok?