Head of Russian private army Wagner says more than 20,000 of his troops died in Bakhmut battle

Ouch, that is 20k murderers and criminals Prigozhin will have to replace. Hope Russian prisons are training their offenders well.

Man, Prigozhin better not stand near any windows or drink tea from unknown sources.

As long as fascist Russia is illegally on sovereign Ukraine soil - killing Ukrainian children, women and civilians - expect tens of thousands more of these Nazis to be sent home in body bags.

They knew the risks - and the Ukrainian patriots dealt with them correctly.

The figure stood in stark contrast to the widely disputed claims from Moscow that just over 6,000 of its troops were killed throughout the war as of January.

Honest reporting would point out that the Russian Ministry of Defence does not include Wagner losses in its official casualties figures because Wagner fighters are not military personnel.

The article is biased and skewing the facts.

Wagner is a PMC, it is not part of the Russian military.

Honest reporting would point out that the Russian Ministry of Defence does not include Wagner losses in its official casualties figures because Wagner fighters are not military personnel.

So really, the number of dead Russians and collaborators stands at a minimum 26k.

Incompetent on both part size, Russian know they will have to go nuclear ,too be taken seriously as an adversary ,this their only way out without looking like a snack ,to get gobble by the US

Meanwhile the UA is surrounding Bakhmut and leave the Russians no easy escape.

Hope Russian prisons are training their offenders well.

Be nice for people to actually read articles before posting comments

Incompetent on both part size, Russian know they will have to go nuclear ,too be taken seriously as an adversary ,this their only way out without looking like a snack ,to get gobble by the US

Ridiculous. Putin can take his lumps and return to 2014 borders. Most likely his pride won't let him, though.

So really, the number of dead Russians and collaborators stands at a minimum 26k.

Mr. Nemui,

You may very well be correct.

But the article says "in stark contrast to"

Where is the "stark contrast"?

We seem to have caught the media in an open bald face lie. We should therefore start to question whether other parts of the article are accurate or not.

Ouch, that is 20k murderers and criminals Prigozhin will have to replace

And you think that's bad news for Russia? Putin has rid himself of 20,000 criminals, taken a city, and freed up prison space for political prisoners. Ukraine, meanwhile, has lost a city and lost 10s of 1000s of trained fighters and productive citizens.

Who would want to work for the Wagner Group? Bad employment conditions for sure.

Meanwhile the Russian Defence Ministry building in Moscow is burning.

Michael Machida

Who would want to work for the Wagner Group? Bad employment conditions for sure.

Well, there are some benefits: job for life!

(Just not a long life.)

We seem to have caught the media in an open bald face lie. We should therefore start to question whether other parts of the article are accurate or not.

I don’t think we can read that much into it here. The very top of the article states Wagner private military. A little lower states Moscow says “its troops”. Stark contrast is more than likely referring to a direct comparison between the numbers of the two different entities, but I will admit that the “widely disputed” comment does muddy that a bit. Either way, the total numbers are higher than what is reported.

The Russians lost 20k dead, perhaps up to 100k dead and wounded to capture a “city” that had no strategic value and now is nothing more than a wasteland.

Meanwhile, the UA forces withdrew communications command and control in tact to the highlands in the SW and may end up encircling the city.

Wouldn’t that be Karma if the invaders ended up surrounded with no escaped in a city they flattened with no food, water or medical services?

Mighty Russian victory indeed.

Seems like a lot of deaths to go after less than a thousand Ukrainian "Nazis."

“We conquered Bakhmut!”

Meanwhile, the Russian defense ministry burns in the heart of Moscow.

The head of the Russian private army Wagner says his force lost more than 20,000 men in the drawn-out battle for Bakhmut, with about half of those who died in the eastern Ukrainian city being Russian convicts recruited to fight in the 15-month-old war.

Anytime someone from the Russia side gives an estimate of their casualties, just multiply it by five...

The figure stood in stark contrast to the widely disputed claims from Moscow that just over 6,000 of its troops were killed throughout the war as of January. By comparison, official Soviet troop losses in the 1979-89 Afghanistan war were 15,000.

The Afghan War wrecked havoc on the Russian economy and psyche - the Ukrainian War is even worse...

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin also said Russia’s invasion goal of “demilitarizing” Ukraine has backfired because Kyiv’s military has become stronger with the supply of weapons and training by its Western allies.

No matter how much of a BFF Prigozhin is with Vlad, if he keeps up with this "disinformation" he'll find some "Novichuk" on his doorknob...

In an interview published late Tuesday with Konstantin Dolgov, a pro-Kremlin political strategist, Prigozhin added that Russian forces had killed civilians — something Moscow has repeatedly and vehemently denied.

Oh my, he just added to the evidence of war crimes and Putin's prosecution at the International Criminal Court...

You know things are going badly when your own private warlord dimes you out...

EFD, Mr. Prigozhen finances his company by taking control of valuable resources like gold or oil in the places Wagner mercenaries operate. They do the bidding of whichever thug employs them but his price is a cut of the wealth of the place Wagner is fighting in. Mr. Putin gets his cut too. Bakhmut has gypsum and salt mines Mr. Prigozhin wishes to control in order to pay the bills. Wagner operates like pirates but on land instead of on the sea.

Head of Russian private army Wagner says more than 20,000 of his troops died in Bakhmut battle.

Not true. He stated 20,000 casualties but did not give a figure for deaths. Whatever the number is it is far fewer than Ukrainian deaths in Bakhmut estimated at 40,000 to 60,000.

Just google Prigozhin Backhmut presentation and see for yourself. He DOES NOT say 20,000 dead.

It's very... ummm, optimistic(?), to believe that a defending force, in a heavily fortified urban area, suffered higher casualties than an invader. I realize that's what the Kremlin is shoveling, but am surprised someone believes it.

Not true. He stated 20,000 casualties but did not give a figure for deaths. Whatever the number is it is far fewer than Ukrainian deaths in Bakhmut estimated at 40,000 to 60,000.

I can’t post links typing on a phone but multiple credible news sites describe Ukraine forces surrounding Bakhmut. A military website ran an article yesterday claiming Ukrain has held back forces from the Bakhmut fight to free personnel for NATO weapons training. UA reportedly has five freshly trained brigades, three equipped entirely with western equipment and two with overhauled Russian equipment. They are not mixing western and Russian equipment in the same brigade to facilitate logistics and repairs. Some site claim Ukraine is bleeding Russian forces before launching their offensive. Time will tell how accurate these claims are. None of us are there to see it with our own eyes or have access to up to date satellite imagery.

"The head of the Russian private army Wagner says his force lost more than 20,000 men in the drawn-out battle for Bakhmut," - This sounds accurate, in line with most estimates.

"widely disputed claims from Moscow that just over 6,000 of its troops were killed throughout the war as of January." - Not many believed that number I think.

"Ukraine hasn’t said how many of its soldiers have died..." 

Why Ukraine doesnt release their figures...are they similar or even worse?

Mr. Prigozhen finances his company by taking control of valuable resources like gold or oil in the places Wagner mercenaries operate. They do the bidding of whichever thug employs them but his price is a cut of the wealth of the place Wagner is fighting in

I am aware of this.

I was talking mostly from the perspective of the Kremlin’s stated goal of conquering Ukraine.

To your point, and with the information that you have helpfully added, I doubt Wagner will control the area long enough to extract any resources.

Supplying cannon fodder is a diabolical but lucrative bizness, especially when you can cut the costs of incarceration, too. But blowback is always part of the war game and the law of unintended consequences is bound to come round eventually to bite little ole Putin on his backside. The odds against Prigozhin dying in his bed are also part of the deal with the devil.

About the Soviet-Afghan War, Mikhail Gorbachev referred to it as a “bleeding wound” in a 1986 speech. The war in Ukraine is likely costing the Russians an entire generation. Putin is too self absorbed to ever admit his mistakes.

What ol' Jack Burton always says

Wouldn’t that be Karma if the invaders ended up surrounded with no escaped in a city they flattened with no food, water or medical services?

Clearly an understanding of Karma and Dharma hasn't been grasped -as wishing or projecting evil also has it's consequences.

Non Hindus shouldn't talk of Karma.

Actually his usage is correct, see the definition under INFORMAL:

karma

noun

(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.

"a buddha is believed to have completely purified his karma"

INFORMAL

good or bad luck, viewed as resulting from one's actions.

"there's something highly satisfying when karma strikes"

**La vie douce** 

Why Ukraine doesnt release their figures...are they similar or even worse?

They are state secrets.

There will be no 'Waterloo' Yrral.

The war in Ukraine is likely costing the Russians an entire generation. Putin is too self absorbed to ever admit his mistakes.

It is an open question whether anyone in Mr. Putin's inner circle is telling him the truth of what is happening in Ukraine.

It is an open question whether anyone in Mr. Putin's inner circle is telling him the truth of what is happening in Ukraine.

It’s pretty clear at the start he wasn’t given the truth, but he acted on it and as already stated he is too self absorbed to admit it was wrong. Now though, you’re right, who knows what he is being told.

Yrral - what are you predicting will happen in 8 days? I would like to mark it on my calendar as I have marked your prediction of Ukraine's demise on July 4.

2210 Russian officers killed. 14 Russian generals were killed. In the invasion of Ukraine.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_bpIqkzD88hlSpA-PDZenSQGNnVnxz3lwYHKViSyuUc/edit#gid=1361265165

It's amusing that the penny hasn't dropped for most people, including large elements of the media.

This is all an act from Prigozhin, who is playing the pantomime villain on many levels. He plays the role of Robin to Putin's Batman.

It's quite literally a version of Russian military deception - maskirovka - adjusted for the modern media and SN.

The irony is they are playing along with the propaganda the west is being shovel-fed daily. There is also a good shake of inside humour which has clearly gone over people's heads.

You've fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

Why Ukraine doesnt release their figures...are they similar or even worse? - "They are state secrets."

That is not an answer.

It is an open question whether anyone in Mr. Putin's inner circle is telling him the truth of what is happening in Ukraine." -

Yes, that is a good point.

Lol. Putin’s no Batman.

hey

what have happened to spring UA offensive?

or heroi waiting for 100 vehicles from Japan first?

i thought heroi took over red square of Moscow already with all NATO/and now even jpn weaponry/gifted...?

btw you still own me an apology for blocking me while you have promoted fascists here two days ago!

Wagner mercenaries aren't Russian troops, any more than Blackwater mercenaries (no matter how the corporate name changed) were/are American troops

They were Russians. They were fighting.

The point is, if Wagner lost this many (out of what, 40,000-50,000 soldiers total?) fighting for one city, it does not look good for the regular troops. There are not many more convicts to recruit. Ukraine has taken a less costly approach to retaking cities by forcing Russian withdrawals without having to conduct urban warfare. It might happen in Bakhmut in the near future.

Wagner mercenaries aren't Russian troops, any more than Blackwater mercenaries (no matter how the corporate name changed) were/are American troops

“We conquered Bakhmut!”. Meanwhile, the Russian defense ministry burns in the heart of Moscow."

CNN - Russia has denied reports of a fire at its Ministry of Defense building in central Moscow, according to state news agency TASS, after the agency cited emergency services saying that a blaze had broken out on the balcony“A fire broke-out on a balcony at the Ministry of Defense building on Frunzenskaya Naberezhnaya,” TASS initially quoted an emergency services source as saying, also noting that emergency services are working at the scene.Local officials later said a fire had not been detected at the building, TASS reported.

“The presence of a fire has not been confirmed, as no fire was detected by the fire brigade upon arrival. Neither is there any information about victims,” TASS quoted Moscow’s Ministry of Emergency Situations.

Video seen by CNN showed smoke surrounding the Defense Ministry building and a woman heard saying, “The smell of burning is horrible.”

hey

what have happened to spring UA offensive?

I would say that as nervous and jumpy that waiting for it is making you and the Russian troops it’s already began and has been quite successful. But be patient when the time is right more obvious, at least to you, events will begin!

Announcing, and then deliberately delaying the start, was one of Ukraine’s best decisions.

This is why Bakhmut is called a Pyrrhic victory for Russia. More Russian victories as in Bakhmut hasten the eventual Ukrainian liberation of their land.

Yeah, good strategy. It's so sneaky that even if we know about it, nobody will ever understand it.

It's amusing that the penny hasn't dropped for most people, including large elements of the media.

This is all an act from Prigozhin, who is playing the pantomime villain on many levels. He plays the role of Robin to Putin's Batman.

Who cares? These skum were willing to rape and murder women an children. Let us hope they all go that way.

50% killed were convicts. How to reduce the prison pop.

wagner guys are private contractors.

remember Blackwater?

for these who believes that wagner guys are part or russian army.

they are not.

What's your point? They were clearly fighting for Russia. Their families live in Russia. Sadly, they died in a foreign country fighting someone else's war.

wagner guys are private contractors.

remember Blackwater?

for these who believes that wagner guys are part or russian army.

they are not.

And you think that's bad news for Russia? Putin has rid himself of 20,000 criminals, taken a city, and freed up prison space for political prisoners.

I don't think we've ever seen a country do that to its population before. That's like 20,000 executions. Even Russians will get angry with that going on.

Ukraine, meanwhile, has lost a city and lost 10s of 1000s of trained fighters and productive citizens.

We all know Ukraine has been devastated but it will be paid back by increasing patriotism and desire to remove the Russian. Nothing focuses the population like invasion and attempted enslavement.

20,000 (probably more) dead . . . Was it worth it?

EFD, Mr. Prigozhen finances his company by taking control of valuable resources like gold or oil in the places Wagner mercenaries operate. 

If this is true, why don’t the US and NATO just pay Wagner to switch sides?

Surely, they have the money.

Zelensky already got $160 billion.

Give Wagner a few billion to work for NATO.

If this is true, why don’t the US and NATO just pay Wagner to switch sides?

Even the incompetent Russian military isn't about to let it's fake mercenary offshoot switch sides.

We know Crimea and 4 annexed areas are now Russian.

Who recognizes Russia's claim other than Russia? Can't be that many countries. I will look it up, Clay.

Crimea and the 4 partially occupied oblasts are Ukraine. The current presence of Russian invaders does not change this fact.

Took me less than a second:

About 5,560,000 results (0.57 seconds) 

Only North Korea and Syria have recognized the Russian annexation of four partially occupied regions of Ukraine.

>

Sorry, Clay. Ukraine will not surrender to Russia, no matter how much you want them to. Ukraine will fight for her land and her people. As I would if the US were invaded, as you would if China were invaded.

Clay

World's overwhelmingly asking, how does Ukraine NATO 'axis' help Ukraine achieve peaceful & prosperous future?

This has nothing to do with NATO. The whole conflict started with Ukraine wanting to join the EU. And that would achieve a peaceful & prosperous future.

But Putin hated that idea which is why he sent troops into the Dombas and annexed Crimea.

Thanks 2020 for not insulting. Agreed, tough negotiation, but as I wrote above, delay very costly, especially continued carnage, destruction, economic damage, inflation, starvation, etc. in no particular order.

Suspect China prefers status quo = conflict continuation, given their huge diplomatic windfall from this matter. May even be difficult to get Putin to table, and given these 'war crime' charges, will have to be at the Kremlin...

One wonders if these knuckleheads fighting for Wagner realize they are fighting just to make Yevgeny Prigozhin wealthy? I realize some are former prisoners who think they can survive the six months necessary to earn their freedom but that is not the bulk of Wagner's forces. Why would anyone risk their lives in combat just to make someone else wealthy?

If this is true, why don’t the US and NATO just pay Wagner to switch sides?

Give Wagner a few billion to work for NATO.

Little details like the Geneva Conventions that all NATO nations adhere to are one very good reason why your idea is a non-starter.

Prigozhin said in Tuesday's interview that it was possible Kyiv’s anticipated counteroffensive in coming weeks, given continued Western support, might push Russian forces out of southern and eastern Ukraine as well as annexed Crimea.

Well, that's the end of the war then. Thanks for leaking Russian strategic information, and instilling hope and motivation to the Ukrainian forces!

One wonders if these knuckleheads fighting for Wagner realize they are fighting just to make Yevgeny Prigozhin wealthy? I realize some are former prisoners who think they can survive the six months necessary to earn their freedom but that is not the bulk of Wagner's forces. Why would anyone risk their lives in combat just to make someone else wealthy?

For many, finally feeling needed and alive with purpose, part of a cause. It's why many join gangs everywhere sadly. Money's over-rated actually in these matters. Plus, these criminal types often enjoy insane risk, like a drug.

Real-life action video games for this crowd, surely they're drinking lots of vodka and so no long-term plan needed!