Ukraine clings to Bakhmut but time may be running out as Russians advance

Despite all the billions given to Ukraine, Russia is still advancing.

Time for a ceasefire and an agreement. Ukraine will be decimated if they don’t sit down to talks. History often repeats itself and don’t underestimate the ability to manufacture that Russia has, plus the available men.

They also have thousand of pieces of equipment being refurbished 24/7 to do what Putin wants,

Whatever the end should be in terms of right and wrong, Ukraine needs to act fast before it’s too late.

Is Russia still trying to win something? Give up already. It's been over a year and you cannot do it. I know you tried, but you just not good at this thing called:

A special military operation.

Maybe you can take up a new hobby. Try cooking school, knitting, take up an art class. But not a special military operation.

Anything but that.

falseflagsteve

Time for a ceasefire and an agreement.

Agreed. Russia must pull out and respect the 1991 borders. They must also pay reparations. If they do that, peace can be restored.

Whatever the end should be in terms of right and wrong, Ukraine needs to act fast before it’s too late.

The pro-invasion folks have been saying this for the past year now. The Russian military is having a hard time taking Bakhmut, a city with a population of less than 100,000 at its peak, so you'll forgive me for questioning the supposed urgency of peace negotiations you claim.

Michael and 2020

im no fan of Putin but I’m looking at the facts and the data regarding military capabilities. I’d suggest looking at the data rather than the media. Whatever is right or wrong is irrelevant, to reduce loss of life a ceasefire is needed and an agreement made. Putin will take the areas he wants whatever the West wants unless they want an all out war that could potentially kill millions.

It’s sickening that the same people who brayed “hold the line” and criticized ‘authoritarianism’ before the war are calling for Ukraine to surrender when their future and freedom are at stake.

falseflagsteve

Michael and 2020

im no fan of Putin but I’m looking at the facts and the data regarding military capabilities.

Sure. Russia has around 10,000 tanks. About 2/3 of these are usable. They lost ~3000 in the last year, so unless they ramp up tank production dramatically, they are going to run into problems in the next year of fighting.

I’d suggest looking at the data rather than the media. Whatever is right or wrong is irrelevant, to reduce loss of life a ceasefire is needed and an agreement made. Putin will take the areas he wants whatever the West wants unless they want an all out war that could potentially kill millions.

He hasn't been able to do it so far, so I don't see much hope of success in the future. Take Bakhmut. They have been fighting for this town since July last year and great loss of life. There is no way they will be able to take the rest of the Donbas.

Putin has given no indication that he is willing to compromise on his stated maximalist goals, which include Ukraine’s “neutrality” and demilitarization—as well as de facto regime change in Kyiv. Do you suggest that Ukraine agree to this? Putin doesn't have the ability to achieve it on the battlefield, so why give it to him at the peace table.

I'm agreeing with you. We need peace.

im no fan of Putin but I’m looking at the facts and the data regarding military capabilities. I’d suggest looking at the data rather than the media.

I'd love to see your "data." Judging by the lack of specificity, I'd wager there isn't any "data." After all the unprompted "I'm no fan of Putin but," is a pretty big tell.

Stay strong, defenders of Ukraine!

2020

When Russia goes into overdrive with making munitions etc they do it bug time, regardless of the cost to the country or hardship caused to people. History shows us that they are often on the back foot and then they cause chaos. When I say history I mean conflict in Russia or on their doorstep,

cards fan

use your ‘psychic abilities ‘ to inform you of what you want. I don’t care about his conflict any more than I care bout global warming and many other things,

The coming weeks and months will speak for themselves sadly and a massive loss of life is imminent.

Steve - the Soviets were kicked out of Eastern Europe (mostly bloodlessly) and Afghanistan (some blood involved). This kleptocratic RF admin is not the same as USSR leadership, nor are the people the same. Ukraine will not surrender, so we might as well help them win.

falseflagsteve

2020

When Russia goes into overdrive with making munitions etc they do it bug time, regardless of the cost to the country or hardship caused to people.

Russia can only build 20 new tanks a month and it may soon be able to resurrect 90 or so a month from its boneyards. Still, that would not make up for the estimated 150 it is losing each month. And when those refurbished tanks are gone, 20 / month is not enough.

Also, production is hampered by shortages of parts. Semiconductors are in short supply. Russia is using chips from imported dishwashers and refrigerators in their tanks.

Despite the hundreds of billions in debt generated by Russia for this war, and the hundreds of thousands of soldiers thrown at them, Ukraine is still holding them back.

Despite all the billions given to Ukraine, Russia is still advancing.

When I say history I mean conflict in Russia or on their doorstep,

Those are defensive wars. The invasion of Ukraine isn't that, and they don't have same advantages now as they did then. Also, they lack the technological ability western countries do to manufacture weapons.

I don’t care about his conflict any more than I care bout global warming and many other things,

Ah, you don't care about this conflict, but you took the time to look up the data on Russian military capability? Okay. Lol

Time for a ceasefire and an agreement

If it were your land as recognized by everyone and your people being systematically murdered (executed actually), kidnapped, raped with only the next time Russia needs a foreign boogeyman to look forward to, I bet you wouldn’t be so quick to throw up your hands.

As long as it can withdraw its forces in tact when the time comes, UA should squeeze every drop of Russian blood and then withdraw to its prepared positions in the highlands to the west.

Leave the Russians with a Hell scape bereft of value.

Cards fan

Yeah I took my time to look up the data on both countries. Any weapons from the west like Jets and Tanks won’t be variable for at least 6 months until the military has been trained. It’s not as simple as people think, send a load of hardware and it’s ready to go. Some is, like transport vehicles and guns of course.

Both sides are running it in propaganda, I’m nit interested in the truth behind this, just want it to end.

falseflagsteve

Both sides are running it in propaganda, I’m nit interested in the truth behind this, just want it to end.

We are all in this camp. Unfortunately, Putin isn't likely to pull out.

The only way this war will end is when the Russian government take full responsibility for its actions!!

Withdraws all military occupation from Ukraine, every centimeter, then under a fully supervised UN peace-keeping operation that guarantees the future safety of the vernable civilian population.

Only such an action states a clear message that despotism will never prevail.

There will be no "over-drive in Russian weapon production"!

And even if, supplying those marauders with outdated stuff compared with what Ukraine receives.

In addition, yes, Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea will be liberated - I mean those areas belong to Ukraine.

Concernin Bakhmut - the Russians will fail here too! Besides, how many thousand Wagnerites etc have been termintaed so far for such a small piece of land. Is it really worth it? I got my doubts!

Ukraine prevails!

, I’m nit interested in the truth behind this, just want it to end.

Oh, so you looked up facts on both sides when you aren't even interested in the truth? Okay lol

Sorry mate, making forcing Ukraine to make peace with Russia is what they (the Russian government) wants. It also won't actually lead to peace, if you bothered reading Putin's invasion speech last year.

By your own admission, it takes 6 months of training on these weapons. So, why not give them 6 months before you throw in the towel?

Yeah I took my time to look up the data on both countries. Any weapons from the west like Jets and Tanks won’t be variable for at least 6 months until the military has been trained. It’s not as simple as people think, send a load of hardware and it’s ready to go. Some is, like transport vehicles and guns of course.

Donetsk will be liberated..

You don't "liberate" some place that doesn't belong to you; you "invade."

Russia will not lose this war..

It has lost this war already. It just needs to sacrifice several thousand more Russians before it realizes it.

The Russians themselves are screaming bloody murder on Telegram about the poor equipment and high casualties.

Wagner group is now recruiting in Moscow from 10th grade students (16 year olds).

So the war is going well for them? This constitutes "success"?

I think not.

I'm expecting Bakhmut will fall, unfortunately, but how long has it taken now? Back in August last year it was imminent, then every month more of the same. Two weeks ago we heard it was just a couple of days away. Is it going to be tomorrow, or can we expect it to be the end of next week? It's already taken a lot of Russians. How many more will they throw at it to win Bakhmut?

Couple of days away from “this city had no strategic value and its just a minor symbolic victory”.

Time to negotiate peace while its still possible.

HN - Same here, actually, though I know better than to put a time limit on it or to underestimate Ukrainian resolve unlike some of our friends here.

I will however put this out there though - Bakhmut is as good as it gets for the invaders of the Donbas. If they thought Bakhmut was a tough nut to crack, wait until they see how the Slovyansk-Kramatorsk-Druzkivka-Kostyantynikva defensive line treats them. These four towns all in a row are all similar in size to Bakhmut and even more defensible. The invaders may eventually take the ruins of Bakhmut, but I don't see them making it past this next defensive line.

Blacklabel - Ukraine is not going to surrender.

I'm expecting Bakhmut will fall

pro Russia fans must be so proud. They’ve gone from failing to take the capital to finally capturing a small insignificant town. It only took them one year & 10’s of 1000’s of lives to achieve this ‘victory’.

Tooheysnews - some pro-Russia fans had even more grandiose plans for the Russian army ('all the way to Lisbon'). They may have since scaled back their expectations.

Just like Kherson City, Lyman, etc. were of no value to Russia. Don't get too excited yet.

Couple of days away from “this city had no strategic value and its just a minor symbolic victory”.

Couple of days away from “this city had no strategic value and its just a minor symbolic victory”]

You are about 2 months late on that one. That is what those of us who bothered to educate ourselves have said for a while now.

The town itself has no strategic value. The UA has already dug its next line of defense and it's C3 will remain in tact. The Russians will win a bowl being overlooked by UA forces safely entrenched in the high ground.

The Russians wanted it for PR only. It does nothing for them. The UA wanted to fight for it becuase:

A: they get to kill a lot of Russians. This battle alone has probably cost the Russian "army" 30k dead.

B: It's THEIR LAND.

But your unstated point about how this is a big deal for the Russsians if/when they capture a salt mine inaccurate.

At the end of this "victory", UA lines are in tact. Tens of thousands of Russians and hundreds of irreplaceable (by the Russians anyway) armored vehicles gone, never to be seen again. And the Russians gain nothing.

CPTOMOToday 06:39 am JST

Despite all the billions given to Ukraine, Russia is still advancing.

No, they are not. They have been trying to advance into Bakhmut for months but instead are inching forward over piles of their dead soldiers and prisoners sent to die. That is not an advance, but more a meat grinder for anyone Russian. The billions spent are holding back the bear. Soon they will make the bear extinct in Ukraine.

Putin’s cheerleaders are out. I wonder if they’re being paid.

Why do people support this kind of criminal enterprise?

Why can’t the Russians leave the Ukrainians alone and let them leave ve n peace?

Instead here’s this mini-me version of Hitler mouthing off about nukes and saving Ukraine from itself by destroying it.

Can’t wait to see Russia pay for all of the damage it’s caused.

Sitting in a fortified town like this was never a sensible military strategy. Turned into a meat grinder where Russia could just bombard the place and inflict huge casualties. Sad for Ukraine, but the overwhelming manpower and material advantage the Russians have will finally prevail.

Blacklabel - Ukraine is not going to surrender.

good thing I said negotiate a peace, which isn’t the same thing.

And the Russians gain nothing.

Except more land and another city under their control.

Blacklabel - naw, Ukraine will keep fighting for their country and their people.

Putin, in his madness, thought he could make a offer the Ukrainians couldn't refuse, but they had no choice: they decided it's better to die on their feet than live on their knees. So, united as never before, Ukrainians are standing up to the brutal "big brother" Russians who are hell-bent on carrying out their cold-blooded plan for a "Final Solution" to the "Khokhol question" by terrorizing the people with war, burning their libraries, looting their museums, banning their language and culture, to achieve the fascist fantasy of extinguishing their Ukrainian identity.

The fastest way to peace is helping Ukraine defeat Russian forces inside Ukraine. There can be no peace while Russia holds Ukraine lands. While Russia has control over Ukraine territory it will not leave voluntarily. You can not reward an invader by ceding territory, as that encourages the invader to try again later when he has replenished his war supplies and trained new soldiers. The invader must be made to pay a penalty to ensure he does not try again in the future.

With the above in mind, can those calling for peace please say just how the peace can be achieved without rewarding Russia for its blatant aggression, and without restricting Ukraine rights as a sovereign nation?

Until the next to last Ukrainian, as demanded by the Western financial backers of the proxy war.

How stupid is the belief that Ukraine people fight so hard, because their "western financial backers" tell them, rather than because it is their country, freedom and future that is at stake? This is a Russian war, not a proxy western war. Russia began this conflict against a Ukraine that had had enough of associating closely with Moscow and wanted a better future by being closer to Western Europe. Russia unable to change to compete with the West resorts to invasion to get its way. The Russian dinosaur is unable to modernize and adapt so falls back on ancient barbaric methods to get its way.

The eventual outcome is not in doubt. It never was. Russia will win. Its simply a question of how long the tracksuited comedian will delay the outcome by spending lives and ( our) money.

Wakarimasen

Sitting in a fortified town like this was never a sensible military strategy. Turned into a meat grinder where Russia could just bombard the place and inflict huge casualties. Sad for Ukraine, but the overwhelming manpower and material advantage the Russians have will finally prevail.

Most of the casualties are Russian and Ukraine is making them pay dearly for Bakmut. Also, the amount are artillery used daily is a quarter that of Sievierodonetsk because Russia are running out of shells. Which is why they have been fighting over Bakhmut since July last year. When the finally take it, I wonder if they will think it was worth the huge cost of Russian lives.

Despite all the billions given to Ukraine, Russia is still advancing.

Yeah....advancing on the same small town its been advancing on for a whole year now. Face it, Russia sucks.

A peaceful solution is available TODAY.

The Russians commit to withdrawing within some period of time (say 30 days) from ALL Ukraine including Donbas and Crimea. In exchange Ukraine does not militarize these areas and NATO promises to give Ukraine defense assistance.

But that would not be a "win" for the murdering midget from Moscow.

So more Russians have to die in order for Russia to get it through its think skull that:

Ukraine does NOT belong to them.

The population of Ukraine is NOT going to buckle under.

The West is NOT going to give into Mad-Vlad's attempt to redraw the map of Europe becuase we all know that it might start in Ukraine but that is sure as HELL not where it will end.

Give in here and Georgia (Georgia might be screwed anyway by misfortune of it's geography) Moldova, the Baltics and perhaps Poland are next.

The Russians have said so themselves.

That is not going to happen.

Toblerone

The eventual outcome is not in doubt. It never was. Russia will win. 

It's a bold person to predict the outcome of the war. What are you basing your predictions on? Because a lot of people have been shown to be pretty stupid predicting the war would be three days.

The "I just want a negotiated solution" gambit is really "I just want Ukraine to give in and give the Russians a win."

And that is not going to happen.

Toblerone - if you are so confident that Russia will win, maybe you would also like to predict when they will win?

Nemo

The "I just want a negotiated solution" gambit is really "I just want Ukraine to give in and give the Russians a win."

So true. Because when you suggest that Russia just pull out of Ukraine, they say "no, that's not what I meant."

The Russians commit to withdrawing within some period of time (say 30 days) from ALL Ukraine including Donbas and Crimea. 

what fantasy world is this?

I certainly hope none of you negotiate for a living.

let’s just give a Ukraine 100% of what they want plus give them back all the previous stuff Obama let Russia have too?

what does Russia get in this “negotiation”?

Socks and blankets for their army at last?

The Russians commit to withdrawing within some period of time (say 30 days) from ALL Ukraine including Donbas and Crimea. 

what fantasy world is this?

This is the actual course of events that is likely to happen. The Russians can save themselves another 100k casualties or they can lose these areas anyway - their call.

As I said before, the Russians can leave the live way or the dead way, but they ARE leaving whether you want to recognize reality or not.

Blacklabel - that's the point. We should do everything we can to discourage these kinds of territorial wars of aggression so that larger countries cannot just simply take a bite of smaller countries whenever they wish. Giving Russia any part of Ukraine would enable this.

To those who always want peace negotiations:

imagine someone came to your house, rapes your wife, kills your child, takes away your house, loots everything - of course you would ask that person, while on your knees, to please stop doing this? You'd surrender? C'mon, if you answer with yes, something must be wrong with you!

Peace negotiations, YES, after the complete liberation of all Ukrainian area, including Crimea, reparations paid by Russia, and of course, last but not least, DeHague for those in Russia who are responsible for all the misery brought upon Ukraine!

Concerning the Bakhmut meat-grinder - so far this is what's happening with those Russian aggressors. Thousands of lives wasted so far to pacify that murdering dictator in the Kremlin!

Ukraine prevails!

Giving Russia any part of Ukraine would enable this.

It already happened in 2014.

why didn’t anyone care then? Did lack of 2014 action “enable” 2022?

also look at a 30 year old world map and compare it to today. Been lots of “changes”.

“NBC News journalist Keir Simmons recently went to Crimea and reported that most Crimeans are pro-Russia. Now, Ukraine has put him on its hit list website for reporting this fact.”

Totally fine huh?

I certainly hope none of you negotiate for a living.

let’s just give a Ukraine 100% of what they want plus give them back all the previous stuff Obama let Russia have too?

what does Russia get in this “negotiation”?

Socks and blankets for their army at last?

Actually we do!

Negotiation is about interests and getting what you need from a negotitiation. It is not about giving up your intrerests in pursuit of reaching agreement.

All negotiations are based on Interests, Options and BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Solution)

Ukraine's interests are in the respect of its internationally recognized borders and the right to live in peace within those borders.

It's options are to continue to bleed the Russians dry and to play for time until it is ready to strike later this year. Time is on the UA's side in the medium term.

Its BATNA is to keep fighting. Its BATNA is actually rather strong as the odds of winning are rather good.

Those who blindly seek to reach agreement are subject to "agreement bias" - the unilateral settling for agreements that are not "wize" (they do not satisfy the side's basic needs, they are not operable or they are not "fair").

Any possible agreement that does not meet one party's interests (see above) OR is not AT LEAST as good as its BATNA is a bad agreement and should be discarded, not accepted.

This is how actual negotiators negotiate regardless of what a reality TV failure says.

You would have the UA give up and hand over internationally recognized Ukrainian territory (and people) to the Russians just to gain a respite from violence. It is not in thier interests AND it's not operable.

That is, we all know that the Russians would start here. They would not end here. No agreement short of liberation will be operable in the sense that the Russians will just tear up the agreement on a BS excuse (sound familiar?) and come back for a 2nd or 3rd or a 4th bight of the Apple.

I certainly hope none of you negotiate for a living.

let’s just give a Ukraine 100% of what they want plus give them back all the previous stuff Obama let Russia have too?

what does Russia get in this “negotiation”?

Socks and blankets for their army at last?

I do negotiate for a living (at least part of my job involves it). Negotiating in business is different from countries negotiating, but the basic principles are similar and anyone familiar with negotiation will tell you that there is no room for it here.

For a negotiation to be succesful there has to be a zone of potential agreement where the interests of both sides overlap enough that they can reach a settlement. If there isn't, whatever agreement is acceptable to one side will not be to the other, and vice versa, and negotiation will be futile.

This is the situation Russia and Ukraine are in right now. The two sides are so far apart on pretty much every issue that any settlement that is acceptable to one will be unacceptable to the other. This is not something that negotiations can change, its something that has to be changed by the parties themselves re-evaluating what their interests are. This is only going to happen if there is a major change on the battlefield - one side suffering a disastrous defeat for example - or a change of government or something like that. Until that happens, negotiations are not going to go anywhere.

Blacklabel - Of course people cared back in 2014, and yes, we should have been stronger on Russia then, but that is no excuse not to do the right things today. We in the west (not the Ukrainians though) were a lot more naive about Russia and their intentions then. We aren't naive anymore.

Yes, there have been changes to the world map in the last 30 years, but there haven't been a lot of full-blown 20th-century style wars for territorial conquest since then and we can't abide that unless we want to return to the bad old days.

“NBC News journalist Keir Simmons recently went to Crimea and reported that most Crimeans are pro-Russia. 

They are free to leave. The land stays unless or until Ukraine decides to ceed it.

Come on, Blacklabel. Those of us who follow the war closely can predict with fair certainty what the pro-Russian talking points for the day are.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-volodymyr-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-troops-883661209159

For a negotiation to be succesful there has to be a zone of potential agreement where the interests of both sides overlap enough that they can reach a settlement. If there isn't, whatever agreement is acceptable to one side will not be to the other, and vice versa, and negotiation will be futile.

An excellent point.

When there is no overlapping ZOPA, the default choice is the BATNA.

In Ukraine's case - as it was for the Allies in WWII in Europe and the Pacific - is to fight and win.

“NBC News journalist Keir Simmons recently went to Crimea and reported that most Crimeans are pro-Russia."

Those are the ones who were brought from Russia to Crimea, received "free housing" (the houses that once belonged to Ukrainians) and / or those who were always siding with Russia (a minority!).

Obviously during the referenderum before Russia's illegal interference and aggression most Crimeans voted for Ukraine!

Ukraine prevails!

The surrender, sorry.... "negotiate" crowd would have let the Nazis rampage across Europe or Japan to subjugate the Pacific in the name of "peace" (eg not having a bully attack them.)

They would just as likely have let the South seceed from the Union (and by default legitimized the institution of race-based slavery for another century or longer) in the name of peace.

Some things are worth fighting for and supporting others in that fight. This is one of them.

And I am glad that the vast majority of the public agrees with that premise.

Blacklabel

“NBC News journalist Keir Simmons recently went to Crimea and reported that most Crimeans are pro-Russia. Now, Ukraine has put him on its hit list website for reporting this fact.”

Totally fine huh?

True, most of them were moved there by Stalin in the mid 1940's to effect his de-Tatarization of Crimea.

Ask Tartars in Crimea and you might get a different answer.

As for Crimea, it's part of Ukraine.

Then, it would be pretty stupid to just give them more land, right?? You are not making much sense with this argument.

It already happened in 2014.

why didn’t anyone care then? Did lack of 2014 action “enable” 2022?

also look at a 30 year old world map and compare it to today. Been lots of “changes”.

can predict with fair certainty what the pro-Russian talking points for the day are.

It’s what he said. that why AP was so quick to try to clean it up with a “fact check”

“The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war,” he says. “And they will have to fight. Because it’s NATO that we’re talking about, and they will be dying, god forbid, because it’s a horrible thing.”

how are his own words pro Russia taking points?

Leave the Russians with a Hell scape bereft of value.

That's a russian way of thinking. That land is Ukrainian land. There is no reason Ukraine would want to turn their own land into a 'Hellscape', they'll only have to restore it once the orcs are gone. (As it is, it's estimated that much of the farmland of Ukraine has been torn up by explosives and tanks, the soil contaminated with toxins from munitions. Not to mention unexploded shells and mines littering the land. Estimates are that it will take decades to restore the soil, and some farms may never be cultivated in the foreseeable future.)

Send the russians back to their own hellscape.

I said negotiate a peace, which isn’t the same thing.

In Putinspeak, 'negotiate a peace' means 'Give me all the land I've already taken plus the bits I haven't taken but have unilaterally declared are 'Russia forever', then dismantle your armed forces so that next year or the year after I can come back and take some more. Oh, and we get to keep all the kids we abducted into russia and are now in the process of brainwashing into believing their parents were/are nazis. As for reparations - go pound sand.'

Putin can stop the war tomorrow. All he has to do is pull all his troops/conscripts back behind the 1994 borders, and, if he can't being himself to show up at a war crimes tribunal, jump backwards out of a 14th door window.

Couldn't remember where I read about the land being ruined for farming, turns out it was here on JT:

https://japantoday.com/category/world/soils-of-war-the-toxic-legacy-for-ukraine's-breadbasket

ok 1517 Ukraine prevails!

like I said ... if they do, they will prevail over a BIG pile of rubble and shattered populace.........Ukraine go neutral and start talking peace.

Blacklabel - if Ukraine surrenders/submits and Russia goes on to attack a NATO country, then it will be US soldiers fighting and dying. That is the context that the Russian disinfo left out.

Blacklabel - FWIW, that guy broke Ukrainian law by crossing into Crimea from the Russian side. That guy was British though.

japancat

*ok 1517 *Ukraine prevails!

like I said ... if they do, they will prevail over a BIG pile of rubble and shattered populace.........Ukraine go neutral and start talking peace.

In the word of Nemo

The "I just want a negotiated solution" gambit is really "I just want Ukraine to give in and give the Russians a win."

They would just as likely have let the South seceed from the Union 

And would have kept fighting down to the last bamboo sword wielding grandmother in the Pacific War.

They would just as likely have let the South seceed from the Union 

And would have kept fighting down to the last bamboo sword wielding grandmother in the Pacific War.

Yeah, not so much.

That's the exact opposite of what you think it means.

Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member state

And more war mongering. Keep it between Ukraine and Russia. Why drag Europe and Americans into your war?

I’ll just go ahead and respond to those who will respond: why don’t you send your sons and daughters to Ukraine then? Are some things worth fighting for?

For the same reason we didn’t just let Germany keep their war between Poland and themselves in 1939. Stop simping for the oppressor here.

As for me and mine? We will do what our country needs us to do.

quercetum

Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member state

And more war mongering. Keep it between Ukraine and Russia. Why drag Europe and Americans into your war?

If Putin invades Baltic States, NATO article 5 will be invoked and Europe and America will be involved.

Easy way to avoid is for Putin to keep out of the Baltic States.

@2020hindsights.......In ' hindsight ' your going to realize that I was right !

japancat

@2020hindsights.......In ' hindsight ' your going to realize that I was right !

In hindsight, letting Putin get Crimea for free in 2014, meant that he was back to get more in 2022. With that knowledge we know that giving in to him now will mean more bloodshed in the future.

context' yes so you must keep giving us money and weapons or else your children will have to fight and die.

How arrogant of a comment!

You need a new talking point becuase like "Fetch", this isn't a thing.

I have not seen the quote in question.

Given your history of... um... "inaccuracies" I am taking it with a truck-load of salt. (Ukraine has on mulitple occiasions said it doesn't need US soldiers, only their weapons.)

And as everyone here, citizen and non-citizen alike already knows, the United States (in coordination with its NATO partners) makes decisions about where and when and how to deploy its soldiers.

So this non-sequitor is....... nothing.

U,what can NATO do if the US do not want to go too war for NATO,and a NATO country start a war and get beat up

NBC News journalist Keir Simmons recently went to Crimea and reported that most Crimeans are pro-Russia. Now, Ukraine has put him on its hit list website for reporting this fact.”

Totally fine huh?

Do you have any proof of this? If you take the above quote and put it into Google, the first search results is RT.

https://www.google.com/search?q=NBC+News+journalist+Keir+Simmons+recently+went+to+Crimea+and+reported+that+most+Crimeans+are+pro-Russia.+Now%2C+Ukraine+has+put+him+on+its+hit+list+website+for+reporting+this+fact.%E2%80%9D&oq=NBC+News+journalist+Keir+Simmons+recently+went+to+Crimea+and+reported+that+most+Crimeans+are+pro-Russia.+Now%2C+Ukraine+has+put+him+on+its+hit+list+website+for+reporting+this+fact.%E2%80%9D&aqs=chrome..69i57.1575j0j4&client=ms-android-sharp&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

There’s a point where you accept your fate.

Exactly. The sooner Russia accepts its loss, the better everyone, including Russia, will be.

This tweet somehow seems relevant. https://mobile.twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1581290949006659584

Quercetum - so because bad things happened in the past, it’s ok for everyone to keep doing bad things? You do understand how bad actors could take advantage of such an amoral stance, right?

if Ukraine wanted to be a vassal of Russia, then there would be no war, but nobody wants to be a vassal of Russia. Would you?

Kanekoa the Great? Wasn’t he one of the bigger pushers of QAnon back in the day? Why am I not surprised to see he is now carrying water for Russia?

2 second search on Twitter.

Lol you're relying on a random Twitter user for news? This is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

if Ukraine wanted to be a vassal of Russia, then there would be no war, but nobody wants to be a vassal of Russia. Would you?

It's not so much condoning agression but accepting reality. Who owns the northern territories that Japan claims? Theyre gone and so is Crimea. Ukraine is not a vassal of Russia but it has lost territory and will not be getting Crimea back anytime soon.

It’s not a random twitter user, though. If this is the same guy I am thinking of, it was a major pusher of QAnon disinformation. I wonder if there is some kind of link between QAnon Disinformation and Russian disinformation . Now there’s a conspiracy theory for ya.

These European are gonna catch hell ,if Putin is not force to leave Ukraine,US support is gone and Pentagon officially are catching hell too and if Putin do not leave Ukraine, Biden will be replaced on the ticket,he already has an obscure political challenge,that will force him to go out on the road and debate

Exactly. The sooner Russia accepts its loss, the better everyone, including Russia, will be.

So you're staying stop the fighting and accept your losses on both sides. I would agree with this. Cut your losses or keep going or get the US on the ground and in the mud.

So you're staying stop the fighting and accept your losses on both sides.

No, just the Russian side because they suck.

U, Ukrainain have no choice,but to negotiate,if they are force too

Agreed, Rainyday. The US should not have invaded Grenada, Panama (family member actually took part in that one), or Cuba. That was wrong then and it would be wrong today.

WilliB: Are you excusing American aggression? Please don't. It was wrong. Also, please don't excuse Russian aggression.

2020hindsights...

Most of the casualties are Russian and Ukraine is making them pay dearly for Bakmut.

This is utter nonsense. The Ukrainians are being slaughtered by Russian artillery in Bakhmut. On a ratio of at least 7-1. This is being reported by Ukrainian themselves. Fighting a lost cause to hold a town till the bitter end is a waste of human life. They have left themselves the option of retreating under direct Russian fire, if the one remaining road is not already taken (there are reports that it is), surrender or a repeat of Mariupol where they are surrounded and slowly bombed until they surrender. or die. A total waste of life for no gain.

Mr. K - You said Bakhmut would fall by the end of February, though, didn't you? Was that perhaps just wishful thinking on your part?

Mr Kipling

Most of the casualties are Russian and Ukraine is making them pay dearly for Bakmut.

This is utter nonsense. The Ukrainians are being slaughtered by Russian artillery in Bakhmut.

I'm talking about the Russian lives from July last year until now. What are you talking about? The rear defenders?

Fighting a lost cause to hold a town till the bitter end is a waste of human life. They have left themselves the option of retreating under direct Russian fire, if the one remaining road is not already taken (there are reports that it is), surrender or a repeat of Mariupol where they are surrounded and slowly bombed until they surrender. or die. A total waste of life for no gain.

The UA has demonstrated a lot more operational capability than you given them credit for. Are you mistakening them for the Russian army or Wagner?

Yeah, until I see this from somewhere besides your partisan take (You have been saying the Russian victory is inevitable since basically the start.), I will order another truck-load of salt.

"And a total waste of life for no gain"?

That is your line to Russian high command, not the UA. They are bleeding the Russians white defending their land from an invader and if/when they withdraw, it will be to prepared positions overlooking the town their C3 in tact and strategically none the worse for the wear.

The Ukrainians are being slaughtered by Russian artillery in Bakhmut. On a ratio of at least 7-1.

Do you have a source for this oddly specific casualty ratio? Please share it.

well it seems that UA is not closer one step to their victry over Russia even today,with all of USA/west support/sanctions,money,guns,media support/.

same time it seems that hegemon still did not get where is his place in todays world as have lost sense for reality on the ground.

one and only way to stop all of this - peace negotiations without preconditions.