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© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2022.Russian rockets kill 22 at train station on Ukraine's independence day
By Tom Balmforth and Valentyn Ogirenko KYIV©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
81 Comments
plasticmonkey
Was it a “Nazi” train station?
PTownsend
Putin like most other dictators, is narcissistically impaired, incapable of taking responsibility for any problems his actions might have caused. However, he might use this attack to appeal to his ultra-nationalist flock, crowing how tough he is. Or he might get his media to tell his faithful flock the Ukrainians and the west did it.
Mark
Wars are UGLY.
Mark
War generals and conflicts experts are now agreeing that this war will likely go on for many years to come for the two obvious reasons Russia is too strong to be defeated, and the Ukrainians are highly motivated and and fighting well.
tooheysnew
I’m sure the pro-Russia anti-west crowd will tell us it was a Ukrainian missile
Mr Kipling
It may have been, the last big train station missile was!
However, considering the location, probably Russian. I wonder what the target was?
TokyoLiving
No, the article says a Russian rocket.. Who knows..
Unfortunately, this is war.
No war is good.
Cut the drama..
Yrral
When have eviction notice,been given to Russia,maybe Putin think he put off the welcome mat
M3M3M3
Unfortunately, dual use infrastructure such as train stations, railway tracks, bridges and so on are presumed to be legitimate military targets. Best to avoid them if you're ever in a warzone.
Monty
I wonder what the target was?
The target?
Innocent men, women and children.
Mass murdering and killing!
That is the only thing the Russians can do,... beside raping young Girls.
Bob Fosse
I knew someone would blame the victims.
Bob Fosse
’deliberately slowed down’. Sure.
The Avenger
An example of state sponsored terrorism.
Nemo
So, when Ukraine either develops or acquires the means to strike targets deep(er) in Russia’s rear, perhaps a “dual use” train station and subsequent strikes result in Russian civilian deaths, it will be a case of “war is hell” right?
wallace
Why are the Russians bombing civilians?
tooheysnew
because that’s their go-to strategy when they can’t beat the regular army. They’ve done it in every recent conflict.
theres no proof it was Ukraine who did that
Yrral
Nemo,the Ukrainlan do not even attackl near Kharkiv ,which is striking distance of Himars into Russia why because their masters tell ,not too ,your excuse is lame
nandakandamanda
Sick, disgusting, barbaric behavior.
UChosePoorly
Shame on you, Russia.
rainyday
Actually Ukrainian train stations in Ukraine full of people minding their own business are not a legitimate target for Russian missiles. This is an illegal Russian invasion, everything the Russians do there is illegitimate.
Step up the military aid to Ukraine. The only way to stop this is to help them rid their territory of these Russian invaders.
Blacklabel
No, Ukraine should not be murdering Russian civilians in missile attacks using US weapons.
i don’t know why I have to tell the “Ukraine can do no wrong” brigade about this.
Nemo
This is barely comprehensible, and no - it was not the point I was making.
Nemo
Thats interesting because we don’t know why we have to explain that blowing up a country based on a lie, intentionally targeting civilians is a bad thing.
But some can’t seem to process that. Go figure.
wallace
The British PM Johnson yesterday visited Kyiv and held a press conference with President Zelenskyy.
https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/ukrayini-poshastilo-mati-takogo-druga-yak-velika-britaniya-v-77289
rainyday
Yeah, I’m confused about why you feel the need to tell everyone about that too, given that its the Russians, not the Ukrainians, who are the ones murdering civilians with missiles.
wallace
As of the beginning of July, the attacks had resulted in the documented death or injury of more than 10,000 civilians including the documented death of 335 children, although the actual numbers are likely much higher.
Mass graves Ukraine
Ukraine's national police chief says authorities are investigating the killings of more than 12,000 Ukrainians nationwide in the war since the Russian invasion in February.
Since the withdrawal of Russian troops from the region at the end of March, authorities say they have uncovered the bodies of 1,316 people, many in mass graves in the forest and elsewhere. The horrors of Bucha shocked the world after Russian troops left.
https://www.voanews.com/a/bucolic-ukraine-forest-is-site-of-mass-grave-exhumation-/6616015.html
6.6 million Ukrainian refugees.
Blacklabel
can 2 things not be wrong at once?
you complain about Russia doing something and not only justify, but encourage, Ukraine to do the same thing t in the same breath
even when Ukraine does it as you have been proposing they do?
Blacklabel
Because posters here seem quite OK with Ukraine doing the same thing. or say they are justified in blowing up Russian civilians in car bombs.
Do you support such?
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
I mean they can be, but considering the American right only criticizes Ukraine, that's probably a question for them.
Funny how one can realize it's wrong to target Russian civilians, but never complains about Russian targeting Ukrainian civilians.
Yrral
Wallace,I know lots of Ukrainain are dead as a result of Russia,do you think a corrupt judicial in Ukraine,has the capacity to investigate thing ,like this,when they turn a blind eye to corruption
Nemo
When the Russians are blowing up Ukraine based on laughably ridiculous lies, then no - it’s not a both sides thing.
The Russians are wrong. Ukraine is right to fight back.
This rather simple supposition seems lost on some who coincidentally all seem to love Mini-me and fascism.
rainyday
When was the last time the Ukrainians blew up a train station full of Russian civilians?
Blowing up civilians in cars is bad, no matter who does it.
But to date we have one Russian civilian killed in a car bomb that may or may not have been done by Ukrainians, versus thousands upon thousands of Ukrainian civilians killed, and about 10 million driven from their homes, by the Russians. So like most I find the sheer scale of depravity of the latter much more concerning.
wallace
Blacklabel
Which Ukrainians have killed civilians in car bombs?
Russia-Installed Official in Ukraine Killed in Car Bombing
But he was not a civilian
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/08/24/russia-installed-official-in-ukraine-killed-in-car-bombing-a78643
Nationalist commentator Daria Dugina, 29, was killed on Saturday when a bomb exploded under the driver’s seat of a vehicle that belonged to her father, Alexander Dugin, a far-right ideologue.
I would not call her or her father civilians.
Bob Fosse
“What happened to being able to question or be critical of one thing without someone trying to claim that means you support another?”
Remember who said this?
finally rich
Communism, ever heard of it? They would starve or literally bury their own citizens alive for a cause or to cover up sth.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Russia isn't communist.
wallace
Communism ended in Russia when the Soviet Union fell.
Yrral
Bob Fosse,What are Ukrainain defending, Russian are attacking at will,maybe they should put up a better defense
rainyday
Very true. The sooner the Russians realize this, the better.
tooheysnew
they’re not
Ukraine has not blown up any Russian civilians in car bombs.
fighting for your freedom is never a lost cause
Yrral
Too, Ukrainain have never live under a free government
Hito Bito
This is the endgame. Terror. Not being safe anywhere. Russia's in the process of making those areas in Ukraine that aren't sympathetic to Putin's invasion simply inhabitable.
If he can, Putin will drive millions of additional Ukrainians to flee as refugees to first the far west of Ukraine, then to Western Europe. Putin's already shown he's not below stealing Ukrainian grain, threatening global food supplies, weaponizing all its natural assets or stealing Ukraine's power supply by redirecting Zaporizhzhian nuclear power away to Russia. No food, no power, no support, and no safety. That's the point!
You think a train station bombing would cause this former KGB head to flinch even an inch? Lol. This is do-or-die, for both sides, but especially for "strong man" Putin. So expect the madman to increase the heat day by day. I mean, just look up what he did to his own Russian citizens when running for President the first time in 1999/2000. (See Russian Apartment Bombings, and take note of the use of the then KGB-exclusive explosive Hexagen.)
Hito Bito
I meant to write *simply UNinhabitable." Apologies.
tooheysnew
you’ve made this accusation several times with no proof or facts to back it up
Blacklabel
thats the fallacy in your logic right there then. they are both obviously and clearly "civilians".
Im not even talking about what has happened. I am talking about posters here clearly stating it is ok and justfied if Ukraine murders Russian civilians.
No its not, even if Russia has done the same to Ukraine, which it appears they have. and even more so if they using weapons from the USA to do it.
Yrral
Finally, Ukrainain first President was a communist, members of Politburo
Yrral
Ukraine was founded under communist ideology,not a great start for anyone ,that believe in Democracy
Blacklabel
multiple posters here have promoted this as a justified course of action. send missiles into Russia and blow things up! we are justified to do so, they claim.
that is what I am talking about. just read their posts and see the sense of joy when the daughter was blown up as a plain to see example. Its grotesque to promote and justify the killing of any civilians.
even "Russians".
UChosePoorly
Blacklabel - I am ok with Ukraine attacking Russian military and logistical infrastructure wherever they find it, but care should be taken to avoid/minimize civilian casualties.
Blacklabel
right? we dont agree on much, but its not even debatable, its common sense and common decency.
Im glad you "get" this concept.
Yrral
Dwindling,There more Russian in Zelensky government,than you find here
cleo
Russia invading a sovereign country based on lies, deliberately targeting civilians - cannot be justified.
Ukraine defending itself by attacking russian military personnel, russian military infrastructure - hell yeah, go for it.
Small man walking down the street, got his problems, don't we all....punched in the face by a 6' gremlin moron wearing knuckledusters who then proceeds to attack the small man's family walking with him. The gremlin is 100% in the wrong.
Small man retaliates by punching moron, fortuitously picking up and using knuckledusters provided by a friendly bystander, maybe even a baseball bat or a golf club - who can blame him? The gremlin deserves all he gets. Yet the small man is too civilised to attack the gremlin's family, many of whom are standing in a circle (well out of harm's way) cheering on the fight.
Slava Ukraine!
ok1517
Those Russians are just so good at this.
Targeting again civilians, killing a 12-year-old child.
Oh, sorry, those were all Nazis, of course, and they belong to some special sabotage group.
Collateral damage might be another excuse.
Or was it just revenge for that Russian mouthpiece woman that was killed by the - who was it again?
Whatever it is, those Russian invaders will soon be gone.
Independence Day for Ukraine! Victory and freedom for Ukraine!
JTC
Sadly, I know someone who says Zelenskyy is a Left Wing Deep state actor, and who believes Ukraine is a corrupt nation.... what do you suggest I say to them in order to persuade them otherwise ?
Yrral
Ukrainain were not independent from communism,it the only thing they knowed,they even model Ukraine under the Russian state
Nemo
To the extent that this is even comprehensible, it doesn’t seem correct. (I use “seem” because even with a graduate degree and having read it several times, I’m not certain what it’s trying to say other than “Ukraine bad, Russia good.”)
In addition, if I am not mistaken, the date today is August, 25th (JST), 2022 and NOT, 1992. Thus the circumstances of Ukrainian independence or the form of government/economic model it had at its foundation is not relevant to the government it chooses today.
Again, this rather obvious point is lost on some.
Blacklabel
people who have been screaming at the top of their lungs for half a year that violence and murder of civilians is wrong?
What if moron dies in your scenario after getting hit with such an excessive object.
Is it justified to kill the moron? no, right?
Isnt the person who have the bat or gold club also liable and morally responsible for his murder?
yep.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
You've already said you don't care what happens to Ukrainians, and that it has nothing to do with you, why do you not take the same approach to Russians?
The double standard is very obvious and curious.
Yrral
Antique,if Ukraine was founded under a Communist system, would the vestige of communist be in their government today,your country was founded under English parliamentary system ,and still this way today
Nemo
Again, you seem to be one of those that does not understand the use of a hypothetical using the irrationality of moral equivalence to point out the underlying weaknesses in the opposing view.
There are a lot of people who understand this. You don't seem to be one of them.
Blacklabel
the hypocrisy of screaming about murder and violence done to one side while also at the same time advocating to do those same things to the other side because its "justified" and "they deserve it" is deafening.
you are either for or against the murder of civilians in missile attacks. that would not support making an exception because the civilian is "Russian".
Nemo
To the extent that this is understandable, it’s irrelevant to Ukraine today in general or the targeting of civilians in particular.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Lol and this is your problem; you're enraged by a hypothetical situation where Russians civilians are killed and silent on the actual murder Ukrainians by Russian invaders. And you want to lecture others on hypocrisy?
Nemo
If/when this hypothetical becomes a reality, which to date there is no evidence, THEN we can discuss the degree to which targeting civilians is a legitimate tactic by a sovereign nation defending itself from invasion based on a lie.
But to date, this hasn’t happened. Nor is there evidence that Ukraine has used rape as an instrument of terror, or that Ukrainian forces have shot Russians in the head while their hands were tied behind their back and left in the street. That kind of thing.
On the other hand, there’s rather a lot of evidence that the Russians have done exactly that.
SuperLib
Russians are getting slaughtered.
Blacklabel
Why would you need it to happen before taking a position on whether it’s right or wrong?
what Russia has done has no impact on whether it’s right or wrong for Ukraine to do the same or similar.
stormcrow
Another Russian war crime to record and add to the growing pile.
Cruel but not surprising.
Nemo
I would invite you to stop digging as you’re clearly standing on bedrock.
But we all know this is merely an invitation for you to go rent drilling equipment.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Any evidence this is happening? Not sure if you noticed, but Russian missiles killed 22 civilians. Spare a thought for them if you will.
Nemo
I dunno, did they invade my country on a lie, rape the women and murder civilians?
Context is key.
Blacklabel
Nope. I’m curious why posters are advocating for this to happen as justified and deserved because “Russia did it too”
easy to understand but reading comprehension seems to be an issue. Or intentional obtuseness.
Blacklabel
It doesn’t need to happen for you to have a position on if it’s right or wrong.
simple concept.
Nemo
This “fact” (which conveniently ignores the fact that Zelenski was elected with about 75% of the vote, has nothing to do with the wanton and international targeting of civilians by Russia resulting in 22 murders today.
Sorry, it’s just not related or equivalent.
SuperLib
When someone says, "I don't support Russia, but.... "
It means they support Russia.
Blacklabel
If they did, then it’s ok to murder their civilians?
Nemo
But it isn’t. Simple concept.
On the other hand, today we have yet more evidence that the Russians intentionally target civilians for murder.
Again, simple concept.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
You've already said you don't care what about what happens to Ukrainian at the hands of Russian invaders, why do you take a different approach with Russian civilians?
But it's not happening. You're criticizing a Ukraine for something that isn't even happening, whilst completely ignoring the fact that Russia is doing the thing you claim to be against. It's telling.
Nemo
Again, one more time, it was a rhetorical device (tool) using the irrationality of moral equivalence (meaning I didn’t believe in doing it in the first place) to point out the underlying weaknesses of the opposing argument.
What that means is I was pointing out the idiocy of the Russian fan-boys argument- basically “war is hell” when defending the international targeting of civilians by postulating (proposing in a hypothetical manner) that we can use the same argument IF Ukraine does the same thing in the future, which it has not.
I realize that this particular rhetorical device is beyond your understanding and beg your forgiveness as I am used to communicating with educated, functionally literate beings in my normal daily activities.
In the future I will try to communicate my thoughts in a manner more appropriate to your level of “cognition.”