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© Thomson Reuters 2023.Russians pound access routes to Ukraine's besieged Bakhmut
By Leonardo Bennasatto and Lisi Niesner CHASIV YAR, Ukraine©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
72 Comments
Eastmann
seems another heroi victory in sight?
falseflagsteve
Time to get round the negotiating table before Russia starts taking more than the Crimea.
quercetum
How many are being sent? Will these tanks have air cover? Why not send the F-16’s Zelensky is asking for? Where are these tanks? Why have they not been delivered yet?
Once Bakhmut falls and AFU retreats, the western media will tell you that it really wasn’t very important anyway but the fighting was there just to harm the enemy.
UChosePoorly
Stay strong, defenders of Ukraine!
Moonraker
That dreaded monolith, the western media. Better the Russian one? Or which one?
Haaa Nemui
America is guilty of hypocrisy, no question about that. Calling it out to justify your own invasion is proof that you know what you are doing is wrong. It’s also sick and evil.
Haaa Nemui
Considering the founder of Wagner and the founder of the IRA (not the army in Ireland) are one and the same… I think I’ll stick with the western media.
UChosePoorly
For real. So much of the justification from the Russian side amounts to 'well the US has done bad things in the past, so why can't we?' Not a winning argument. My kids used to try that argument when they were young, but they grew out of it.
fallaffel
So, your plan is that the entire country surrender because one city (Bakhmut) may finally fall... after 8(?) months.
Michael Machida
This WAR is about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This is not about other countries past conflicts. Don't let anyone divert your attention away from the illegal WAR that putin short started over a year ago. Stay on track and focus on getting the Russians out of Ukraine.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Stay strong, defenders! Ukraine will prevail!
Mr Kipling
One road.... Yes one road under direct Russian fire. Tank fire, RPG, artillery and machine gun. How many brave men are Ukraine giving up for Zelinsky's face save?
UChosePoorly
Mr. K - seeing as how one of the stated reasons for the invasion is 'denazification', and you seem to be on board with the invasion, why would you care how many 'nazis' the Russians kill? Wouldn't more be better from your perspective?
Also, Feb 28th came and went and Bakhmut is still standing. Did you want to try and revise your prediction of the date when Bakhmut falls, or are you done trying to divine the future?
cenobite
give Ukraine jets and bombers and the world will celebrate victory
JeffLee
It's not really an equivalency. The US didn't invade Iraq, Afghanistan or others for the purpose of conquest. The aim was to restore stability and responsible government to places where the local powers had created murderous hells on earth.
When the US or the West show reluctance, as with Yugoslavia, they are widely criticized for "ignoring a humanitarian crisis."
Mr Kipling
The battle for Bakhmut was lost by the Ukrainians long before Feb. 28th
UChosePoorly
I agree that they are not necessarily the same thing, but optics are important, and we messed that up too.
It would have nice if there had been more of an intervention in Rwanda in 1994. We should have gone there instead of Iraq in 2003.
UChosePoorly
Mr K - perhaps, but that isn't what you said:
u_s__reamer
The gloating from Wagner & co won't last long. They'll soon be ducking for cover when spring arrives and Ukrainians come re-upped with more fire-power.
quercetum
If those are your only sources you are handicapped in terms of information. Most are reading the mouthpieces of the White Hoyse and the CIA. The news and media is just what you want the mass to know. There are other means to information.
I’m afraid it seems that’s all you can handle.
My neighbor’s kid, just a junior high school lad, participated in Model UN. He went to an International School in Eastern Europe. I asked him about what he learned representing the US and about the Ukraine war. He opens with it’s complicated and proceeds to identify issues from Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Europe, and the United States. He has perspective and its multifaceted. Yours is Putin started it and that’s about it.
Yrral
Ukraine have been given armour Pontoon bridges,that they seek too cross the Dnipro river,you have too risk more to capture land than defend it Google US Pentagon Ukraine Armoured Pontoon Bridges
fallaffel
Criminals can nearly always give some justification for their actions. However, it doesn't make their actions right.
UChosePoorly
Quercetum - of course, life is complex, but things get a whole lot clearer when one country invades another.
In hindsight, maybe the Treaty of Versailles shouldn't have been so punitive, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have done everything we did to defeat Germany once they started invading others.
UChosePoorly
IOW, stop apologizing for Russian aggression. It's not a great look now and it is going to be even worse in years to come.
Blacklabel
Strategic withdrawal, symbolic victory, no strategic value of this city. That’s the narrative soon.
surprised this article said “major victory”. Someone will be disciplined over that.
Yrral
Maybe a missile strike on the Kremlin or Ukraine Presidential Palace ,will put an end to this conflict, before it spiral out of control, because this is a moneypit, Zelensky is asking for more aid,and the last aid ,has just been allocated 2 month ago
Blacklabel
Another Friday in USA, another money transfer to Zelensky just like clockwork.
the 33rd security assistance package to Ukraine.
wallace
Nothing is left of the city and probably will never be rebuilt. The Ukrainians should pull back.
UChosePoorly
Blacklabel - not money, but rather equipment that Ukraine needs to expel the invaders:
Yrral
What in the hell ,do as long as it takes mean,forever
Moonraker
Same old same old. Same old snide comments about the western media being propaganda organs (as if we cannot determine fact from fiction) but no actual advice as to what media to follow. Can you please enlighten us with the correct media, please?
Eastman
UA forces will either retreat or surrender.
But they knows have no chance to win.
POBEDIM!!!
Seapig
and that certainly seems like it was a successful strategy considering the Russian losses
Jimizo
We are waiting to read them.
Don’t be shy.
Yrral
Fizzbit,as an American,this war will bring down Biden Presidential reelection,if their is not a convincing win by Ukraine,the US paying 200 billion on a war ,that should of concluded by now through negotiation ,I hope he remembers Lyndon B Johnson going before American, saying he will not seek re election
FizzBit
Yrral, Biden was always meant to be replaced. He was just the best choice to beat Trump and start the war machine back up from the good ole Obama days.
Yrral
U,you have some ties to Ukraine,this may cloud your judgement,if you love Ukraine,you should hope for anything,but the misery it is bringing to Ukraine by continuation of this war
UChosePoorly
It's not about ties to Ukraine, it is about not rewarding invaders with territory. We tried appeasement already in the late 1930s. It didn't work then and it won't work now.
If the Ukrainians wanted to surrender to Russia, then they would have surrendered already. The least we can do for them is to provide them to the tools they need to expel the invaders.
If you care about your fellow man, then you know why they can't surrender to Russia.
Ukraine will fight.
Cards fan
And another whiney post whining about helping the Ukrainians defend their country from the Russian invaders. Pathetic.
Nemo
Having bled the Russians dry, now would seem a good time to withdraw in tact to the next prepared lines.
Let the Russians enjoy their “victory” and bury their dead (that they can find.)
The spring counter awaits and it is imperative that C3 be intact at its inception.
Haaa Nemui
That’s about the most accurate thing you’ve ever said. Except the war machine part was long before Obama.
Blacklabel
That escape route needs to be used, no reason to sacrifice any more lives.
retreat and then get to the negotiations before Ukraine has no advantages left.
Cards fan
Oh yes, if Bakhmut falls it's over for Ukraine. What an absurd argument.
stormcrow
The Ukrainians need to make a tactical withdrawal the way Gen. Robert E. Lee would have done. Back away, find good ground with a good killing field and repeat. The Russians are just throwing themselves at the Ukrainians the way Gen. Grant did with the union forces. The big difference is that Gen. Lee didn't have a superpower backing him up.
Back up, choose your ground, let them assault you while you're behind good defenses and slaughter them. Then back up a little and repeat. The key is to choose ground of your choosing.
quercetum
My point is news media is only one source of information and that’s if can even be called I formation. if you read only the mouthpieces of the White House and CIA, then it is severely limited.
I didn’t know I was advising anyone here - not qualified to do so. I shared an observation. Why would a judge try and identify a “correct” media, instead of hearing from all available sources or witnesses?
In Tokyo, you can easily meet people from all over the world and there are embassies all around the Minato ward area.
Yrral
Wallace,the US has no legal standing in this war
wallace
The US isn't fighting in "this war". It is assisting an ally.
UChosePoorly
Quercetum - you do know that the postings of Ukrainian and Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine are all over the place on SM, right? There has already been more photo/video of this war than probably all previous wars combined and not just from 'approved' sources like back in the day. Do you follow any of these accounts on TG or Twitter? Nobody, not even in Russia, needs to get all of their info from state/legacy media sources.
proxy
Who gave the order for "more troops to head towards the frontline?"
It would seem they are being sent to their deaths.
wallace
The United States established diplomatic relations with Ukraine in 1991, following its independence from the Soviet Union. The United States attaches great importance to the success of Ukraine's transition to a modern democratic state with a flourishing market economy.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/when-did-ukraine-become-important-us-ally#
Yrral
It the attached so no much important,why is Ukraine so corrupt,the government,but not the people of the US
Blacklabel
So tell us how it’s a positive development that strengthens Ukraine’s negotiation position?
quercetum
Zelensky demanded and got Patriot anti-missile batteries. Next he demanded for more weapons involved advanced tanks that are in the process of being supplied by the U.S., UK, Germany, and Poland. Zelensky is now demanding F-16 fighter jets from the U.S. and eventually their sons and daughters.
Cards fan
It doesn't really change much. The fact is, Ukraine is in a better position now than it was a year ago.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/4/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-list-of-key-events-from-day-nine
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/24/these-two-maps-show-how-war-ukraine-has-evolved/
Blacklabel
Yes they are losing less badly. For now.
However I think the tens of thousands of people who needlessly have died would disagree with you though.
ClippetyClop
You think defending your own country is needless? And who needlessly killed them?
What would you do if your country was invaded? Would that depend on what Biden wanted?
Cards fan
Not if you look at the links I've posted now. Ukraine has control over more of it's territory now than they did exactly a year ago. That's a fact. And you want to stop them from continuing to take back their territory.
Yeah, and I'm sure tens of millions of Ukrainians would disagree with you though. You don't speak for the people of Ukraine. https://www.voanews.com/a/poll-shows-ukrainians-resolved-to-fight-until-victory/6796951.html
UChosePoorly
Russians killed those people. And you want Ukraine to give up her territory and her people to them? Not going to happen. Ukraine will fight.
Blacklabel
So none of you plan to call out the absurdity of “Ukraine is in a better position now than it was a year ago.”?
what’s better about it? Russia only controls 15% of their land instead of 22%?
ukraine a year ago was not half destroyed and not only hanging on by a thread just by 100 billion+ of foreign support that wont happen again this year.
ClippetyClop
Be patient! When Trump gets re-elected you will have plenty of opportunity to Make America Great Again by abandoning Ukraine to its destruction and making all your homeless people really wealthy.
Cards fan
Lol absurdity? What's absurd about it?
That, and Kyiv isn't being pounded on a daily basis, nor is there 30km long column of tanks heading towards Kyiv.
I think the absurd thing is you pretending to care about Ukraine. The Ukrainian people don't want to negotiate, and you want to force them to do so.
Moonraker
I am asking you to advise me. You see, I hear and see all these comments about the western or mainstream media being lies yet, to avoid the sin of being declared uninformed and gullible myself, I often ask how I might be able to get the TRUTH myself in an easy package or range of packages. But "There's no point in asking, you'll get no reply," to quote the Sex Pistols in Pretty Vacant.
Clay
Food for thought, no agenda except peaceful resolution!
1) Much of world views Russia as war monger barbaric invasion force committing war crimes, terrorism etc.
Eg. Russia's invasion of Crimea in 2014 was not legal
2) Much of world views ethic Russians living in Ukraine as targets of Ukrainian Govt. sanctioned genocide and NATO using Ukraine to conduct proxy war against Russia
Eg. EU officially admonished present Ukrainian Govt. numerous times for 'anti-democratic' behavior towards their ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens, including damaging property and voting rights etc.
No middle ground folks, both sides REALLY believe they stand on 'high/morale' ground etc. Support for this 'war'/'special operation' VERY high within both countries
Like ANY complex difficult conflict both sides have merits, rather than continue to just talk past each other, reasonable rational compromise urgently needed otherwise true costs to EVERYONE Globally will continue to dangerously increase senselessly!
please no HATE, love and peace are the answers!
Clay
Gosh, sure wish this subject was a game, seems my independent objective analysis NOT appreciated!
Ukraine has no clear path to 'victory', seems to be strong broad-based consensus, so wouldn't it be better for ALL to seek a SAFE offramp?!?!?!
Besides, not easy to build bomb shelters in mansions!
UChosePoorly
yeah, not appreciated and not 'independent' or 'objective' for that matter. Your reasoning would allow larger nations like Russia, China, or the US to just take what they want from smaller nations because otherwise we will be in danger. That's blackmail. It's not sustainable and not the kind of world I would want to live in anyway.
UChosePoorly
It's not a game, you see. This is life or death for Ukraine and Ukrainians. They will keep fighting until the invaders have been expelled from their lands.
Nemo
I’m sure when the UA needs strategic planning on how to keep a larger force at bay, they’ll head straight for b and clay.
And then it will sensibly do the opposite.
Clay
Fair points only just maybe Mr. Putin and most Russians do firmly believe genocide occurring against Ukrainians of Russian ancestry for example?
Besides, who ever said world's supposed to satisfy your ideals? Covid-19 not acceptable either yet it mutates and causes FAR more disease, death and excess death than this conflict after all.
Actually, the world's far less violent on any basis vs. mankind's history. We've been living in the most peaceful time in human history it's widely agreed upon, people living longer etc.
Compromise, dirty word I know but exactly what are the alternatives, your idealism? Just guessing your young and single, certainly no kids, just saying!
UChosePoorly
Some people believe the world is flat. It's not my job to humor them. The line that there was a 'genocide' of Russian Ukrainians is pure Russian propaganda that you have either fallen for or are intentionally helping to spread.
The alternatives? Ukraine will continue to fight and we will continue to help them until the Russian invaders are expelled.
Guess is wrong, but you seem pretty confident in your mistake. Maybe same thing with regards to the Russian invasion?
TokyoLiving
Ohh reallyyyy!!!!..
So tell me which interventionist country financed with 5 billion dollars the "coup d'état" that caused the civil war in Ukraine in 2014..
Who??, who??..
A hint, they love guns, they hate Russia and China, and they knock down balloons with 150 million dollar fighter jets... lol..
(facepalm)