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N Korea warns of war if it is punished for S Korean ship sinking

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Now watch NK launch a few missiles for the show. A new war? Don't think so. See a waltz of new sanctions that won't change a thing...

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"Take it to the UN" what good is that going to do?

Time for some payback I say.

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'Obvious'? became obvious only after few weeks !

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some14some at 07:59 AM JST - 20th May 'Obvious'? became obvious only after few weeks !

Yea well it takes time to find fragments of an exploded torpedo, especially one that detonated outside of the hull and to properly identify them.

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Does not South Korea have subs? Sounds like pay back time.

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It was obvious to the South Koreans when it happened. The delay in saying it was for political reasons, and to buy some time to work out a strategy on how to respond. But they have known all along.

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"I think it's obvious" doesn't fly too far without the proof. I'm looking forward to hearing the details of the report.

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Kim Jong Il, no more food for you!

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timeon: Where is the news update that talks about this? I'm genuinely curious. And is it some type of metal or fragment UNMISTAKEABLY torpedo?

Anyway, if it has indeed been proven beyond any doubt that it was a NKorean torpedo (and not, say, for some reason Chinese... not that I think it was or anything, just throwing it out there), they then have to ask themselves why the ship didn't detect it. All you ever hear about from military analysts is stuff about how antiquated the NKorean military machine is, and how they would easily be routed in the event of war, but here we have a clear cut case (again, if the proof is valid) of a sub not only getting past all US SKorean defences undetected, AND escaping without being detected, but destroying a state of the art SK warship.

I'm starting to understand why Japan wants input on this situation -- if NK has such subs and can operate them without any detection, it presents a MAJOR danger to Japan if hostilities broke out. Maybe that's what this attack was all about -- a simple showing by NK of it's capabilities.

In either case, when the report comes out and the proof they say they have comes to light, what is SK going to do about it? They've promised swift and strong counter measures, but I'm not sure what they can really do aside from threaten to cut aid.

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timeon: No need to answer where you saw the 'torpedo fragments' info; I just found an article on it and it said more or less the same. Thanks for letting me know about the existence of it.

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For their next trick, NK will blow up one of their own boats and blame it on the South.

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The details are all in the article above.

Maybe Kim's trip to China was because he knew this news was going to break. Having already denied they were involved, NK are now exposed as liars, having clearly lied in front of the world's public. No place to hide, and no way of posturing or bluffing that can hide the fact. If it goes to the UN, then the very recording of this act will be a black mark on their name for future generations. A criminal record. No real need to punish them further.

(Unless some sub captain fired a live round instead of a practice round by mistake...)

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Me die for the sake of determining who gets to catch more crabs

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Kim Yon Il.... bad guy someone should stick a torpedo up your a**!!! NK are like kids, they love to make noise to get attention, shameless... Erasing Pyongyang from the map sounds like a plan to me.

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I don't know what could possibly be done to "punish" them. There won't be a war because of this. Sorry to the victims' families, but no point killing possibly millions to teach NK a lesson. They've been sanctioned to death, and they obviously don't care what the world's opinion of them is. Next strp is anybody's guess.

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oops - next step

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Lord only knows what the South Korean people must be thinking right now...

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China, North Korea’s traditional ally, called the sinking of the naval ship “unfortunate"

Indeed...what else does the world expecting? South korean navy killing a north Korean sailor from the beginning!

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Unfortunate = bad fortune, or lack of good fortune.

Was the timing of this attack wrong? Did they not mean to hurt anyone? Does this mean that NK did not consult Heaven first, that they were punished by the gods with a bit of bad luck?

So why are they still denying it? Why the bombastic, meaningless rhetoric?

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Does this mean the dudes at the north/south border actually glare at each other now instead of stare at each other???

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One word sums this all up, "Nothing." The DPRK has nothing. If it starts a war, it will be left with nothing. If outsiders impose sanctions on it, nothing will get through, and they'll still have nothing. If outsiders do nothing, what will change? Nothing! So, just deprive them the oxygen of publicity, ignore them, and they'll probably do nothing and we'll be right back where we already are. What will have changed? that's right, nothing. Two other word's come to mind: "Rat's Rectum." In other words: nothing.

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There is no way the west will be able to help if a war start. No money, a war in Afghanistan and plus a war in Iraq for the US. NK will be parading and knows she can afford it. Put more sanction and you hurt the population. The one you want to save from NK insane regime. There is no way you can explain the NK population why there are sanctions because you have no media channels over there. They will still back-up the regime or even be insane enough to fight for it.

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If war breaks out in the Pacific, do you think it will affect the outcome of Futenma MCAS? Hmmm...inquiring minds wanna know!

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With the internet, propaganda or not, I would like to first hear both parties as to the sequence of events leading to the sinking. DPRK is supposed to have rudimentary armaments, and for the ROK's ship to get hit undetected, w/out evasive maneuvering sounds odd. Still a lot of questions not clarified in the media.

Prior to the sinking, the DPRK was negotiating a return to the 6party talks, but w/ unreasonable preconditions.

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a war will never happen. None of the parties incolved in the six party talks will allow it because it would financially ruin the region.

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At this point, the DPRK would have to have a state of the art silent diesel submarine to pull off an attack on the ROK ship, but the media details are not good at this point.

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Pretty unfortunate and callous actions followed by a hawkish and stupid stance. tsk, tsk, tsk

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I didn't see anything in the article that shows actual proof that a NK sub fired a NK torpedo. What I read was a SK ship was undoubtedly hit by a NK torpedo. The fact that a NK mother ship and some subs left port and returned during the time of the incident doesn't really prove anything other than a coincidence. Now I wouldn't put it past NK to pull this stunt. The international community has been pretty much ignoring NK recently (in my opinion) and they needed to escalate their saber rattling to get everyone's attention. You don't hear a whole lot about NK's missile systems or nuclear tests in the mainstream media anymore. And China obviously rebuffed them on their aid request. I just find it hard to believe that a NK sub would have gotten into range and successfully fired a direct hit without any alarms going off. Several systems should have detected either the subs presence or at least the firing of the torpedo. If their sonar guy was asleep, that might explain one but things don't add up for me.

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Not sure what the proof is, but it is likely that the metal-tag inside the explosive survived.

Not many people know about those, those are tags that every country needs to put inside explosives that identify the originating country of the explosive(C4, etc).

Same way I held (and nearly bought) an Ak-47 that came from a factory outside chicago(read the crate)). USA is the only country liccenced(AFAIK) to produce AK-47's.

Having worked in many countries and spend time with many ex-soldiers it is interesting to get their views and what they know about the true side of wars. And to see who is involved(even behind the scenes).

HTH.

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I'm definitely not objecting to the reports of it being a NK torpedo. But obviously other people have them. NK exported them and even SK has one according to the article. Because of that I'm on the fence between a conspiracy and terminal mistakes by the SK boat crew to let a NK sub sink it. It's not like they weren't on high alert. Those waters have seen at least two clashes in recent years. I just don't see all the pieces to the puzzle to make the claim that's been made by the investigation.

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I reckon that bombastic NK state tv newsreader woman - yeah, you know who I'm talking about - put the hex on that ship and down she went.

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For those who recently joined the discussion. The JT article has changed at least once, but it was reported clearly above in the original article here that the propeller section of a NK type torpedo with NK writing on it was found on the sea bed beneath where the ship was hit. Traces of an explosive were found which chemically matched that found in a torpedo that SK found some years ago on a captured and preserved NK sub.

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@nandakandamanda

Thx, for the clarification. Just as good as the metal tags.

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Has anyone read an article from another publication offering more details?

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OK, the torpedo was NK. That's really all we know.

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It's time to go into North Korea and take out Kim "ill in the head" Jong and his group of lackeys. Enough is enough, the USA went into Iraq and took out another dictator (although on trumped up charges) but what the hey, we've got the evidence on this one and no one can call foul play here. North Korea's military will revolt and lay down their arms when we start air lifts dropping Big Macs and Ipad's all over their country.

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precision response required...

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they already started a war, why warn of it now?

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"that bombastic NK state TV newsreader woman"

She reminds me of the former Iraqi Information Minister. I wouldn't be surprised if she says on the next broadcast, "We will burn them in their tanks!"

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a war would just be nasty. who knows how brainwashed the North Koreans are. It would be very wise to avoid repeating 60 years ago.

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Has anyone read an article from another publication offering more details?

Yes:

http://www.koreaherald.com/

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/index.asp

Lot's of side stories, too, such as a possible deal between the US and China where the US doesn't overreact to North Korea and China will change their stance on Iran.... They also have more technical information about the incident overall.

This situation has caused a real problem for South Korea, one where they don't have too many options. I can't see any advantage in framing North Korea for it. The best possible thing would be for it to never have happened. It's most likely going to drive a wedge between South Korea and China, South Korea won't be able to do much for a response and will lose face, and it might also cause some friction between South Korea and China if the US doesn't back them enough. It's nothing but a lose-lose-lose-lose situation for South Korea.

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The remnants of the torpedo found at the location of the sunken South Korean ship match a torpedo in a North Korean "sales brochure", a type imported from China. They found Hangul lettering on some parts and this torpedo is and was never in the South Korean arsenal. Kim abruptly cut his recent trip to China short, apparently due to China not willing to hand out food, or whatever, outside that what the UN provides. Maybe there were other things China was not too happy about.

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This is a pic of what they found. The chalk lettering says "No.1" in Hangul, apparently.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100520-00000010-maip-kr.view-000

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South Korea's Lee threatened preemptive strikes on North Korea 6 months ago, this is what happens when you talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Lee is one stupid dude.

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NKorea is such a joke. They engage in an undeniable act of war and then threaten that any retaliation would be an act of war. Duh.

guest at 11:40 PM JST - 20th May South Korea's Lee threatened preemptive strikes on North Korea 6 months >ago, this is what happens when you talk the talk but don't walk the >walk. Lee is one stupid dude.

So a threat to strike justifies an actual premptive strike? By that reasoning SKorea should have attacked NKorea about 20 times by now. Lee is the best leader SKorea has had in decades.

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Japan would love for South Korea to be crippled by a war with the North.

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You know? This was an act of war. This day and age is strange, another country can blow up another ship and not have anything happen to it?

The US needs a new base in Asia. I say the US should steamroll over N. Korea and fix it up a little. Haha.

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Japan would love for South Korea to be crippled by a war with the North.

You know it really wouldn't. War is bad for business, and as Japan and SK are big trading partners, suddenly not being able to trade with them, or being able to trade much less then normal, would be a huge hit to Japan's economy. What it would like, is for SK and NK to stop fighting, for NK to become rational, and likewise start trading with Japan.

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schematics of the torpedo included in introductory brochures provided to foreign countries by North Korea for export purposes.

"Getting Started With Your New Torpedo"

Let the NK investigators do their thing, if only for the comedic value of whatever they come up with. The peace-loving NK submariners suddenly realized a South Korean spy had infiltrated their vessel and placed an exceedingly dangerous torpedo on board. They heroically cast the evil implement away at high speed--not their fault a SK ship happened to be in the way.

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If there is a war the North will be crushed unless supported by China. If this happens WWW III will start. It will be N Korea and China vs S Korea, Taiwan and Japan. I do not see Russia entering on either side. The war does not need be a nuclear one as both sides would lose.

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NK isn't as behind technologically as many people may want to think. Yes the country is poor and resources are funnelled into the military, so their military isn't too far behind.

I really do wish SK could get NK to drop their whole farce and become Korea with SK government in charge.

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This is like threatening to murder all the children at your local schools if anyone testifies against you in court.

That said, North Korea says this every time. Come on, 3 year olds learn pretty quick not to throw a tantrum with idle threats.

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A spokesman for the National Defense Commission, led by leader Kim Jong Il, said in a statement the North’s ‘‘army and people’’ will promptly react to any punishment, retaliation and sanctions ‘‘with various forms of tough measures including an all-out war.’‘

They are the representatives of Kim's puppets. They will keep initiating hostilities to an entire world. Same old story.

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guest at 12:18 AM JST - 21st May Japan would love for South Korea to be crippled by a war with the North.

Why? Any real conflict would result in the collapse of the north and unification under the south's cobtrol requiring aid from many, expecially Japan to rebvuild a unified democratic Korea. Could you ease up on these pointless comments?

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Well, if someone is going to talk about something, it helps to see it. Here are some nice photos of the Poyang class ships and additional links. An interesting note was that the Cheonan WAS outfitted for anti-submarine detection.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rok/pohang-pics.htm

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Correction:

"...Pohang (PCC) class ships ....."

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Correction:

"...Poyang class ships ....."

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quest,

"Japan would love for South Korea to be crippled by a war with the North."

That's highly unlikely. The two economies are so incredibly interdependent upon one another that a crippled South Korea would mean a crippled Japan as well.

Quite the contrary, I see this as an opportunity for Japan and South Korea to forge stronger ties, and it wouldn't be too hard -- "the enemy of my enemy..." and all that. Besides, realistically speaking, Japan and South Korea haven't had a reason to hate each other for over 65 years.

North Korea on the other hand has spent the better part of the past 50 years provoking its neighbors for no appreciable reason.

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Japan would love for South Korea to be crippled by a war with the North.

Utter nonsense. In addition to the economic reasons listed above, there is the very real possibility that NK could decide to rain nodongs on Tokyo as part of a 'last hurrah.' As others have noted, most likely nothing other than loud complaints will come of this. As egregious an offense as the sinking of the Cheonan is, it is not worth the destruction of Seoul. The unfortunate reality is that Seoul, due to its close proximity to the border, is frankly, hostage, and NK can get away with damn near anything. And they know it.

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South Korea is dominating Japan ecconomicly with TV, Electronics, cell phones, Cars, Shipbuilding, Photovoltaic solar cells, and movies, to name a few industries. These businesses would dry up and die if North and South Korea engage in war, much to the benefit of Japan. Lee is a fool.

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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Besides, realistically speaking, Japan and South Korea haven't had a reason to hate each other for over 65 years.

What reason did Japan ever have to hate South Korea???????

Moderator: Back on topic please. The subject is the sinking of the South Korean warship and North Korea.

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This is definately a false flag job sunken either by the US or Japanese submarines, sinking the South Korean frigate was good to scare the people in Japan and South Korea who has resentment over US troops on their soil. In hard times, there is a need to unify the people's believes and psychology to msnpilate the social movement Especially to justify the rasoning for US military to station in asia! The people of Koreas should use a cool mentality to think who will be benefited if tensions keep building up in the Korean peninsula!

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to "manupilate"...

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Why not accidentally take out Kim with a mysterious missle from somewhere and then deny, deny, deny.

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US,Japan,south Korea or whatever western nationalities submarine could launching a torpedo as well at the Cheonan, they are all 21inch torpedo tube! So what does those so called 'North korean torpedo debis' displayed by the South Korean military to the press as evidence mean? Nothing!

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MartinLee,

"to "manupilate"..."

To manipulate who? And to what end?

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Martin, I hope you realize that when you use words like “definitely“ as in “it was definitely a false flag job...“ you will be expected to provide actual evidence to back your assertion. You see, if by some slight chance what you say is correct, people in Japan and the US need to worry about their militaries operating independently of their civilian chains of command, as there is absolutely no way that either Obama or Hatoyama would approve such a mission. Or perhaps this was caused by Halliburton? So if you have such important info for us, please share. And don't just say 'the US would benefit.' If the US or Japan were to actually do something like this, and get caught at it, it would be an unprecedented diplomatic disaster (could make Iraq look like child play). Would assume policy folks in Washington and Tokyo are smart enough to know that, and if someone like you can so easily figure this out...welll...maybe taking such action would be unacceptably risky? Then again, maybe it is just Halliburton using a secret sub trying to start another war for profit, right?

So, apparently you no longer think this was infighting within the ROK Navy as you asserted a couple days ago? Why not?

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To LFRAgain;

To manupilate a social frustrations or resentment over North Korea and deceieved their own people angeringthe domestic issue in Japan or South Korea!Good for most of the parties in japan or south Korea to gain public support!

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The torpedo that sank the Cheonan frigate could be the one captured from the Sang-O class midget submarine in 1996 but fired by an unknown nationality submarine, they are 21inch torpedo tubes!

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Well I guess that at least makes your assertion possible. However, it was SK, not Japan or the US that captured the sub. While it is possible that SK transferred the said torpedo to the US or Japan, I have a hard time believing that they would. However, assuming they did, at the very least they would have recorded all identification data etc. prior to turning the torpedo over, (for their own records) meaning that if that were the torpedo that sunk the Cheonan, South Korea would know. Certainly you are not suggesting that South Korea would ignore an attack on one of its ships by the US or, even worse, Japan?

Seems these little subs are not that easy to spot. Regarding a 1998 incident where a Yugo class minisub got caught in the net of a fishing trawler...

The incident, far from providing the Seoul administration with a handy propaganda weapon, is now proving to be a serious embarrassment. Once again the ROKN and internal security forces became aware of a North Korean incursion only by accident. The grounding of a Sang-O-type coastal submarine in September 1996 caused a similar embarrassment to the ROK's Ministry of National Defense.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3738/is_199809/ai_n8809358/

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The torpedo that sank the Cheonan frigate could be the one captured from the Sang-O class midget submarine in 1996 but fired by an unknown nationality submarine, they are 21inch torpedo tubes!

Now let your fantasy run wild in Hollywood style. Maybe there were aliens.

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Maybe there were aliens.

I knew it!

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take out lil Kim with a wayward missile and then deny, deny, deny? Sounds good. But maybe just "oops!" is good enough?

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NK is very dangerous..,a bully who knows he has power...

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Seems to me that North Korea is the only country that has nothing to lose by launching such an attack, and that all other countries (South Korea, the US, China) do not have enough to gain (as compared to other non-military strategies). Thus, on the motive side, NK seems like a good candidate to have launched the torpedo.

As for capabilities, I am not sure if and how "backward" NK's military power is, because apparently they have been able to get hold of some sophisticated equipment, procured courtesy of... EU states, say Austria!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2010/03/100311_kim_ryul_hs.shtml

Now, how can it be possible to "contain" or "isolate" NK if they freely enjoy shopping in Europe? The mind boggles.

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Thus, on the motive side, NK seems like a good candidate to have launched the torpedo.

...And on the Japan side????????????????????

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guest at 02:44 AM JST - 25th May Thus, on the motive side, NK seems like a good candidate to have >launched the torpedo.

"...And on the Japan side????????????????????"

Japan, along with South Korea and the United States and just about anyone on and off this planet, has no motive.

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North Korea pulls stunts like this all the time. They denied plenty of attacks in the past that they later completely admitted to. They kidnapped people repeatedly and denied that too - until they finally admitted to it. Get a clue conspiracy theorists, it's getting old.

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