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At least 2 shooters kill 6, wound 12 in Sacramento

51 Comments
By ADAM BEAM

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51 Comments

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Post edited. I'll try to make my valid point another way;

And California has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation.

Some would say the toughest. However, it also has porous borders with Nevada and Arizona, both of which have much looser gun regulations. I am a strong advocate for universal background checks at the very least. Nevada requires them, Arizona doesn't.

"Federal data shows that police in California recover at least 10,000 guns each year that were originally sold in Nevada, Arizona, and other states with weaker firearms regulations. That number is surely an undercount, given how many departments have failed to enter weapons into the AFS."

The article explains how few police agencies in California actually record recovered crime guns in the state's firearms database, as required by since 2001.

www.thetrace.org/2021/11/california-doj-firearm-trace-atf-gun-trafficking/

10 ( +12 / -2 )

painkiller - People's rights need to be protected so that they can protect themselves.

There it is! This statement proves the complete lunacy of the third amendment. So, by this logic, everybody should be carrying a gun and this event could have been stopped by a huge shootout in the streets. Just like in the old days of the wild west. News flash! There is nothing that would have stopped this event! Criminals will always have guns. There is an old slogan from when Australia banned general gun ownership back in the 90's. "If guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns." This is very true! The criminals will still have guns no matter the law. However, just because Joe Average has a gun does not mean he will stop these kinds of events. The reality of gun ownership in the US is, there are 35,000+ gun related deaths in the US every year. 65% are suicides and 30% are accidental, usually children. Only 5% of gun related deaths in the US every year are crime related. It would seem that people do need protection, but protection from themselves.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

what a great place to live...

Sacramento and the surrounding area are actually pretty nice.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

It took all of two seconds for you Yanks to start bickering and fighting. No moment for pause and reflection just start punching.

And thus there lies the biggest problem, your ridiculous and never ending culture wars.

RIP to the victims and their families.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

‘… a senseless act’

That, in a society inebriated with drugs and ‘personal freedom’ [sigh] that is overly saturated with guns, we regularly observe countless horrific tragic deaths by shooting?

Makes perfect sense to me. This doesn’t happen in countries where citizens are unarmed, does it?

TT

8 ( +10 / -2 )

And at a Federal level the US Department of Justice is prohibited from having a searchable database of gun sales.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/atf-non-searchable-databases/

It is a shameful example of how the gun industry and NRA have tied the hands of law enforcement.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Here come all whataboutisms over California gun laws and how strict they are. Yet the firearm mortality rate for a lot of red states is much higher than California.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

7 ( +15 / -8 )

another mass casualty shooting has occurred, leaving families with lost loved ones, multiple individuals injured and a community in grief," he said.

Another example of the USA's gun sickness, it sounds like in this case if they have to:

 identify the suspects 

That suggests there might have been several people carrying guns with them, i.e. several sick people, in my opinion only sick people feel the need to carry guns with them, especially to an area filled with people that are out hoping to have a good time . The USA is a violent country filled with sick people, many so frightened by their fellow Americans they carry guns then find reasons, real or imagined, to use them. But guns are another big business in the USA, and big businesses are above the law, plus they make and enforce the laws. As one of the spokespeople for far right extremism Alex Jones says "America was built on guns and whiskey". That says a lot about the mentality of those extremists. Bang bang shoot shoot seems to make them happy.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

In America, when the sun goes down, the guns come out. Stay home and you'll have a better chance of staying alive. Unless the cops come calling with a no-knock warrant.

6 ( +14 / -8 )

The AvengerToday  07:20 am JST

And California has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. I would guess that none of the firearms used in these shootings were legally possessed, and were probably used by perpetrators with multiple past arrests and convictions. So much for gun control. When the gun control advocates have their way, only the bad guys have guns.

It's well documented that those illegals guns in the US you go on about were once bought and owned legally but because of a lack of gun control and gunowners refusing to register their private sale or giveaway, they end up in the black market for criminals.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

*as required by law since 2001.

A problem not confined to California is that Sheriffs are elected and often knowingly and willingly choose to ignore Federal and state firearm regulations.

https://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2022/01/10/constitutional-sheriffs-are-violating-the-constitution-they-claim-to-uphold/

https://www.opposingviews.com/category/rural-sheriffs-ignore-gun-laws-judges-elected-officials

Some states even require that guns confiscated from criminals not be destroyed and instead must be sold to the public.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/10/21/news/police-selling-seized-guns/index.html

https://lonestarstatefirearms.com/law-enforcement-can-sell-confiscated-guns/

6 ( +8 / -2 )

There is an old slogan from when Australia banned general gun ownership back in the 90's. "If guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns."

Sigh, the Aussies didn't originate that saying. It was popular in the US long before the tragic mass shooting that led to Australia's restrictions on gun ownership. In any event the number of death by firearm per 100,000 people in Australia is a small fraction of the number in the US.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The reality of gun ownership in the US is, there are 35,000+ gun related deaths in the US every year. 65% are suicides and 30% are accidental, usually children. Only 5% of gun related deaths in the US every year are crime related.

Source, please. According to pewresearch.org (citing the CDC):

"In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400)."

6 ( +9 / -3 )

So, just another Monday in the US. Got it.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

PTownsend-

USA are cowboys.

The problem is that you have to carry a gun in the USA to be able to protect yourself.

There's no way around it !

To make matters worse many of the gun owners aren't proficient operators or educated in gun safety handling or gun laws.

One of the nicest things of living in Japan is its not necessary to own a gun and crime is extremely low.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

In America it’s easier to get a gun and license than to get a car and license. I was seven years old when I got both of mine. However, with all of the crazies running about and shooting at people for no other reason than to see how many people they can kill at once, the rules need to be changed. It should be harder for people to get a gun and license than a car and license. There should be far stricter training and safety classes in the use of guns and difficult tests to acquire gun licenses. This can be done without a constitutional argument.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Perhaps unwise to name and locate the eyewitness of a possible shooter before they have been arrested.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Here come all whataboutisms over California gun laws and how strict they are. Yet the firearm mortality rate for a lot of red states is much higher than California.

California, going strictly by memory here, has the seventh lowest number of deaths by firearm per 100,000 residents.

Very true. California does have the highest number of mass shootings, though.

The population of California is 39 million where the next most populous state, Texas has a population of 29 million.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811541/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-state/

If you look at that data set you see Florida with a population of 21 million had where California with a population of 39 million had 23. The number in proportion to their population is about the same. Colorado and Washington had much higher numbers of mass shootings in proportion to their populations if you do the arithmetic. I don't have time to calculate it for all the states but despite what some say California in proportion to its great size and population is a less violent place than many other states.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Ummm all states next to California are also "blue states".

Does that mean they don't have fewer gun regulations than California? For example, as stated, Nevada has universal background checks, whereas Arizona doesn't. Red/Blue has nothing to do with it.

Although to entertain that point for a second, Arizona has only been "blue" since 2020, and Nevada is a battleground state.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Maybe they are referring to Hawaii?

Are you sure you want to reference Hawaii in your argument against gun control in the US? Hawaii doesn't have borders with ANY state. It also has relatively strict gun control and "the lowest rate of gun homicides and gun assaults in the US."

Compare that to Alaska which also has no borders with another US state. Loose gun regulation and much higher rates of gun homicides and gun assaults.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

BlacklabelToday  10:57 am JST

Does that mean they don't have fewer gun regulations than California?

criminals dont follows laws, by definition.

it only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding people- so that they can be more easily robbed and killed by criminals with guns.

Those supposed law abiding citizens decided themselves to take their own guns out of their own hands and put onto the blackmarket. The thousands of guns out there didn't end up there solely from theft. The vast majority are from private sales from supposed law abiding owners. Sales with no record, no background check, nothing.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

*as required by law since 2001.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

what a great place to live...

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Mistake, Florida had 12 mass killings out of a population of 21 million. Fat finger, apologies.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

so all these criminals have gun licenses?

It works very well in Japan. The government has inventory of every gun in possession.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

... only the bad guys have guns.

Guns are made and designed only to do bad things: maim or kill. You have a gun, you are able to maim or kill. How can you be a 'good guy'?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Desert Tortoise,

Thanks, great points. It's why I said 'the highest number', not highest proportion. I still think it highlights to the need for stricter gun control at the federal level.

That said, as you showed with your earlier posts, laws are only as good as those who enforce them. If you have elected law enforcement officials choosing to ignore the laws (and I believe federal laws take precedence over state and county laws) without sanction, a law isn't worth the paper it's written on. Apologies if I have misrepresented your post.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I wonder if the shooters were a group of old white women who had a dispute about patterns with another group of old knitters?

No of course it wasn't..... But lets ignore the elephant in the room. To solve the problem you first have to identify it.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

it only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding people- so that they can be more easily robbed and killed by criminals with guns.

I don't believe law abiding gun owners should have their guns taken away from them. I grew up in rural New Zealand where guns are important for things like pest control.

However, I don't think that some undefined 'maybe one day I'll need it to defend myself' justification is enough, especially when that extends to carrying a loaded firearm on your person at all times. I'll qualify that by saying that a more specific need for self-protection - stalking, abusive and dangerous exes and so on, should be given reasonable consideration.

Any step that can be taken towards restricting the uninterrupted flow of guns onto America's streets should be. Whether it's more thorough and universal background checks, safe-storage laws, permit and licensing requirements, purchase limits, smart-tech and what have you. And yes, I am aware of the Second Amendment, although I disagree with its current, individual rights-based interpretation.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

And California has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation.

Patrick Crusius incident happened in Texas

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Guns kill. But let's make any other argument to distract from that fact.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

California has stricter gun laws than Switzerland.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Jeans and T-shirtToday  11:55 am JST

Are you sure you want to reference Hawaii in your argument against gun control in the US? Hawaii doesn't have borders with ANY state. It also has relatively strict gun control and "the lowest rate of gun homicides and gun assaults in the US."

Yes it was intentional.

Humor. Hahah.

maxjapankToday  12:06 pm JST

Guns kill. But let's make any other argument to distract from that fact.

So do cars, medicines, carrots, trees, sand, etc. If a criminal uses such as an instrument of death.

Do we put the guns, cars, and carrots in jail though?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

America has the highest gun homicide rate of the world.

If by America you mean the U.S., according to this it's not even in the top 10.

Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

El Salvador (36.78)

Venezuela (33.27)

Guatemala (29.06)

Colombia (26.36)

Brazil (21.93)

Bahamas (21.52)

Honduras (20.15)

U.S. Virgin Islands (19.40)

Puerto Rico (18.14)

Mexico (16.41)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

BlacklabelToday  10:16 am JST

Ummm all states next to California are also "blue states". 

Maybe the states next to the states next door? those are mostly blue too.

Maybe they are referring to Hawaii?

Wait--that is blue too.

“Very much so a senseless, violent act,” she said.

Yep--an act of criminals.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The problem is a general one. Violence is rising at all places, not only in real wars like the Ukraine war, big shootouts in U.S. cities or in Europe with their millions of imported knife wielders instead of gun attacks. Something is wrong with the development of human brain health everywhere. Is it a general mystery of common degenerating or the consequence of coronaviruses accumulated in brain tissues or environmental pollution, micro and nano plastics in the blood lines or chemical substances taken in by illegal drugs, medications, industrial food, beverages etc? Unless not more explored specifically, I would say it’s a combination of all that, with the logical conclusion that this is surely becoming the big next and an exponentially rising problem. It has nothing to do with handguns or their legal availability. Could be anything else used as weapons.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

people kill.

by using guns, and many other tools/objects/things.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Yet the firearm mortality rate for a lot of red states is much higher than California.

Very true. California does have the highest number of mass shootings, though.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811541/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-state/

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

That suggests there might have been several people carrying guns with them, i.e. several sick people,

Sick people running around with illegal guns is always a problem.

"America was built on guns and whiskey".

…and freedom.

.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Does that mean they don't have fewer gun regulations than California?

criminals dont follows laws, by definition.

it only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding people- so that they can be more easily robbed and killed by criminals with guns.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Mass shootings are a tragedy, but they are not the driver of gun violence in America. As others have posted, suicide by gun is the number one cause of firearms death. Homicide is next, with a plurality being young black men killing other young black men with handguns. Generally gang or crime related. It is a social problem, not an access problem. Blacks kill blacks, whites kill whites.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

There should be far stricter training and safety classes in the use of guns and difficult tests to acquire gun licenses. 

so all these criminals have gun licenses?

Or would making it harder to get a gun license just encourage more people to not get one? wouldnt this negatively impact people of color, who cant seem to be able to get government issued ID either?

 I was seven years old when I got both of mine. 

can let that one go, I can guess what you meant.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

the guns came from the states next door!

Ummm all states next to California are also "blue states".

Maybe the states next to the states next door? those are mostly blue too.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Well it is the rogue state of the USA with it's draconian gun laws after all. Say no more.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

It's California Gov Gavin Newsom fault with all of his messed up catch and release policies. He has turned California into a cesspool. California needs the red wave.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

Again, another simple display of how criminals will use a weapon to commit a these heinous crimes.

People's rights need to be protected so that they can protect themselves.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

And California has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. I would guess that none of the firearms used in these shootings were legally possessed, and were probably used by perpetrators with multiple past arrests and convictions. So much for gun control. When the gun control advocates have their way, only the bad guys have guns.

-23 ( +10 / -33 )

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