Sanders eyes 'bigger' 2020 bid despite some warning signs

It's past time for all these old, entrenched politicians to step aside.

I love Bernie and policy wise he's still head and shoulders above the rest. But at 77 it just seems his moment has passed. Plus he'd face the same divisions as 2016. Women will vote for Harris or Warren or, god help us, Clinton, who refuses to rule out another run. Blacks will go for Booker or Harris etc. Bernie would be a great general election candidate and president but the democratic primaries are designed to nominate the most centrist, establishment-friendly candidate. Someone could break through that process but they better be prepared to throw far more bombs than Sanders in 2016.

It's past time for all these old, entrenched politicians to step aside.

I agree, but don't think Sanders is entrenched in the Democratic Party, which would probably stiff him again were he to get serious consideration.

It's time for Gen X, even Y to make their moves. The world's seeing how farther whack the US has got while its aging baby boomer executive continues to decline mentally and emotionally.

PTown: Agreed. Sanders is one of the least beholden politicians, but it's time for younger people with fresh perspectives.

If us older people were as capable as we like to think, things wouldn't be this sideways.

Some posters ridicule President Trump for being exempt from the Draft due to bone spurs in his feet. A little known fact about Bernie is he applied for Consciousness Objector status and when denied on appeal he ran to Israel to live on a kibbutz for two years. Now that's a DRAFT DODGER...

Sanders is one of the least beholden politicians, but it's time for younger people with fresh perspectives.

He's only a few years older than Clinton and younger than Pelosi.

He's a democratic socialist - wouldn't that be a fresh perspective in the USA?

He's only a few years older than Clinton and younger than Pelosi. 

Clinton and Pelosi need to step aside also.

> He's a democratic socialist - wouldn't that be a fresh perspective in the USA?

If implemented. The idea's been around for years. We need younger people to step up and take charge of their futures.

I love Bernie and policy wise he's still head and shoulders above the rest.

Congress will never go for any kind of radical Marxist socialism that people like Bernie want to impose on the country. Won’t happen.

But at 77 it just seems his moment has passed. Plus he'd face the same divisions as 2016. Women will vote for Harris or Warren or, god help us, Clinton, who refuses to rule out another run. Blacks will go for Booker or Harris etc. Bernie would be a great general election candidate

But that’s it or a political pariah.

and president but the democratic primaries are designed to nominate the most centrist, establishment-friendly candidate.

And that too is slowly eroding.

Someone could break through that process but they better be prepared to throw far more bombs than Sanders in 2016.

It seems like fresh meat for the socialists, but if you look at LA and SF County and how radical their progressive policies have destroyed those cities and up until the midterms OC that was reliably red is a County was was clean, well run, prosperous, affluent. I doubt anyone wants to look like the other 2 radical counties.

@bas4 t seems like fresh meat for the socialists,

What? SMH

but if you look at LA and SF County and how radical their progressive policies have destroyed those cities and up until the midterms OC that was reliably red is a County was was clean, well run, prosperous, affluent.

Once again Trumpitarians have to distort reality to make it fit their blinkered world view. Once again they attack democratic processes and their fellow Americans. But that's consistent when so many claim they'd rather be Russian than Democrat, which again is consistent with the anti-American beliefs they've espoused since the election. They're parroting Bannon, Putin and Alex Jones.

I doubt anyone wants to look like the other 2 radical counties.

Hmmmm...LOL

If the demos had not torpedoed Bernie in 2016 he would be President now. And what an incredible difference that would be compared to the loser we have now in the WH. Hard to do but Trump is acknowledged by all now to be the worst modern day President every, no need to say Republican President as the candidates are all Republicans. Trump pulled in front on Nixon in the last month or so.

 radical Marxist socialism that people like Bernie want to impose on the country.

Specifics, please. Universal healthcare isn't radical Marxist socialism, unless you consider the U.K., Canada, Japan, etc. to be radical Marxist socialist countries.

Or maybe you can show me some Sanders proposals that resemble the Soviet Union or North Korea. I won't hold my breath.

Once again Trumpitarians have to distort reality to make it fit their blinkered world view.

Oh, I’m sorry, socialism is great, the progressive hands commands you to accept it. Sorry, my bad.

Once again they attack democratic processes and their fellow Americans.

Liberals do it every single day, EVERY single day.

But that's consistent when so many claim they'd rather be Russian than Democrat, which again is consistent with the anti-American beliefs they've espoused since the election. They're parroting Bannon, Putin and Alex Jones. 

What? Lol

Specifics, please. Universal healthcare isn't radical Marxist socialism, unless you consider the U.K., Canada, Japan, etc. to be radical Marxist socialist countries.

None of these countries have populations as big as the US, the idea wouldn’t work. Yes, SF and LA counties are doing so, so well. Viva socialism!

Or maybe you can show me some Sanders proposals that resemble the Soviet Union or North Korea. I won't hold my breath.

Naw, he won’t be President, no need, even the Democrats aren’t that crazy.

That pic of Bernie. He's doing something to an invisible something...

Liberals do it every single day, EVERY single day.

Brilliant comment. I bet you went to a real good school.

Congress will never go for any kind of radical Marxist socialism that people like Bernie want to impose on the country. Won’t happen.

I know those who have studied at the feet of Glenn Beck and company struggle with the dialectical method, but what Bernie has been advocating over his entire career has almost nothing to do with Marxism:

Wiki: Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and capitalist economy. The protocols and norms used to accomplish this involve a commitment to representative and participatory democracy; measures for income redistribution and regulation of the economy in the general interest; and welfare state provisions. Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes. Due to longstanding governance by Social Democratic parties and their influence on socioeconomic policy development in the Nordic countries, in policy circles "social democracy" has become associated with the Nordic model in the latter part of the 20th century.

If you see Lenin or Marx in any of that, it says far more about you than reality. I mean, I could say Trump and Jeb Bush and Ron Paul are exactly the same but since I try to argue in good faith so I can't bring myself to do it. Generally, Bernie's pushing the same winning formula that ushered in a 1/2 century of Democratic ascendance in US politics under FDR all the way through LBJ's Great Society. This is why both the right and the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party are so terrified of Sanders and those like him. B/C such a platform is hugely popular, and if enacted hugely successful at improving people's quality of life. A natural consequence of a more robust regulatory state which takes as its concern the lives of average people and not elites also threatens the incredibly lucrative project that is the current focus of higher office--enriching yourself and your cronies.

Of course, all of this stands in stark contrast to the faux populism of the right that spends most of its time screeching out "look squirrel" at poor brown people to distract their followers. Anything to draw attention away from the grifters looting the national treasury. People should be angry but the right's entire mission is misdirect that anger. Towards those without power and away from anyone actually holding or abusing it.

He had his shot. I think a much younger and even whackier politician like Ocasio-Cortez stands a much better chance of taking the reigns and running the USA further into the toilet.

We need younger people to step up and take charge of their futures.

I'd vote for someone like 29 year old Ocasio Cortez in a second but she can't run because of her age.

Sometimes I think the only issues American's feel they can discuss are age, race, sex etc. or right vs left.

The central issue of our age however is not right vs left or everything else meant to divide us - it is the problem of massive inequality - the top .2% vs everyone else. Poll after poll tells us Sanders is the most popular politician in America right now - because he has been, throughout his career, one of the only politicians willing to talk about this.

Bernie and Hillary and Biden....thank you for your service, but we need new blood.

Congress will never go for any kind of radical Marxist socialism that people like Bernie want to impose on the country. Won’t happen.

Others have handled this nonsense quite well, but I will add that Sanders isn't pushing anything radical in the sense you are using the word. He also isn't pushing Marxist socialism. You are using those phrases to whip up ignorance induced fear.

Funny to say our barely literate right wing haters accusing Sanders of being a Marxist, when they have no clue what that ideology means.

Sanders should have been the democratic candidate in the last elections, but I agree he needs to step aside and let someone else run. Cortez is too young and inexperienced as of now, I would love to see her run sometime in the future.

His time has passed, the best thing he can do is endorse and work with a younger candidate that he approves of and can guarantee him an important position in the white house if they can get in. It'l be a good way to pass the torch and have all of the followers vote for someone else without any reserve.

jcapan: I know those who have studied at the feet of Glenn Beck and company struggle with the dialectical method, but what Bernie has been advocating over his entire career has almost nothing to do with Marxism:

The right-wing has done a good job of completely sealing off any of Bernie's messages from reaching their base. Mention his name and they immediately plug their ears and yell "Socialist!" and that's that.

It's a shame since his support of the working class is something that working class Republicans could rally around. I used to tease Trump fans during the election that half of what they were saying sounded like it came from Bernie's website. I don't think they believed me or even really got it. Point out the fact that Bernie brings attention to things like flat worker pay and before you're done with your sentence it's "SOCIALIST! (fingers in ears)." In reality he's talking about things that are important to the working class while the GOP are handing out tax cuts to the rich.

Ocasio-Cortez is in the same boat. Fox has her on the front page 3 days a week with dire predictions of how she is a socialist who will destroy the country.

I think there is a good chance the Democrat vote is going to split in 2020. Far less so the Republicans.

That's what happened last time. I see no reason to think it will be different.

If the Democrats are smart they will push forward a center ground liberal candidate with no baggage.

The mid-terms demonstrated that far left candidates will be shunned. As they should be.

The DNC will never allow him to be nominated, and even if they did, he would be crushed by Trump. Americans are not going to vote in a 79 year old socialist as president.

He's too old: find someone new. And for goodness sake don't try and foist Clinton on everyone again.

Conscience Objectors were offered non-combatants (medics, hospital orderlies, chaplain’s assistants) during the draft era of the Vietnam war. Bernie Sanders and his ilk were just straight up cowards. Makes you wonder why a Jew from Brooklyn lives in Vermont -- because he dare no show his face in New York...

I'll wear a blue MATFA (Make America Trump Free Again) hat with a Bernie 2020 on the back! I always vote, but don't openly show my support. For 2020, if the dems can muster up someone without two red horns on her forehead, I will be glad to publicly show my support in order to MATFA.

Bernie probably won’t run again and if he does he likely won’t get the nomination. He just doesn’t have broad enough appeal. He appeals to millennials who don’t understand economics, and old Birkenstocks-with-socks latte-sipping Volvo-driving unbearable hippies.

Democratic socialism also won’t really work in the US because our government services and bureaucracy are run like garbage. Unless the idea is to create Central Planning and fire all the lazy civil servants that congest everything.

Then again, Bernie would be preferable to the even more extreme new breed of progressives coming down the pipeline. God save us if the Ocasio-Cortezes get into power. You won’t even have a country anymore.

The reality that so many Amerikans refuse to accept is that 80 years+ of right-wing ideology has produced the corrupt, dystopian society of "friendly fascism" that is the USA today. "Old" Bernie as POTUS could be the beginning of a new era paving the way for a younger generation epitomized by Ocasio-Cortez to transform the country into a real beacon of hope for a democratic world. Still, I'm not holding breath considering the number of brainwashed sheeple bleating for the addled " Good Shepherd" golfing in Mar-a-Lago to be their "Savior".

If the Democrats are smart they will push forward a center ground liberal candidate with no baggage.

The mid-terms demonstrated that far left candidates will be shunned. As they should be.

Didn't really clarify regards Bernie. Bernie is old school social democrat. I don't mind him. He is definitely left of centre on economics. I don't know how he thinks he is going to pay for what he wants in tax averse America, but I don't see him as part of those far left fringe nutters. His politics precedes the outbreak of that disease by some decades. I think the question marks around Trumps age will play into Bernie's prospects as well. I think most Americans want a younger candidate. But I would far prefer him over Cortez by a country mile. She doesn't have anything like the experience Bernie. Bernie would clamp down on the more ludicrous aspects of the far left and the social engineering they want, Cortez is dumb enough to go with it and encourage it leading to an already divided America, becoming even more divided.

Joe Blow: He appeals to millennials who don’t understand economics, and old Birkenstocks-with-socks latte-sipping Volvo-driving unbearable hippies.

He doesn't propose radical ideas, he brings attention to things. One exception would be the minimum wage, but other than that he often doesn't have a specific plan to combat a lot of problems he talks about, which is why I never fully supported him.

He's saying these are problems and we need to act, for example, from his Facebook feed:

"We have got to stand up to the greedy fossil fuel industry and transform our current energy system into a more sustainable, efficient one. Let's envision a world that works for our children and grandchildren, not a handful of billionaires."

Is that some radical socialism?

"UN officials have called the situation in Yemen the “largest food security crisis in the world.” Let us bring an end to this catastrophic war and join the rest of the world in delivering the humanitarian assistance that is so desperately needed."

Again, nothing really radical about that. Everyone would support it.

"The function of a rational health care system is to provide quality care to all in a cost effective way. We cannot move forward with a system in which insurance and drug companies make hundreds of billions of dollars in profits each year while working people are financially decimated by medical expenses. It is time to make affordable access to health care a right for every man, woman, and child in America."

And again...no radical policy.

Sometimes I think the only issues American's feel they can discuss are age, race, sex etc. or right vs left.

The central issue of our age however is not right vs left or everything else meant to divide us - it is the problem of massive inequality - the top .2% vs everyone else.

How many Americans do you know? How long did you live there? Don't make judgments based on the two Yanks who work at your school or whatever tripe winds up on the telly. Americans on the left have been talking about the haves vs. the have nots for ages, just like any other country--such discourse just rarely makes its way into the NYT, or the Reuters prolefeed that winds up crossing the pond. Only recently has the Democratic Party leadership started to adopt some of its language, as fearful as they are of alienating their donors.

I think there is a good chance the Democrat vote is going to split in 2020. Far less so the Republicans.

That's what happened last time. I see no reason to think it will be different.

If the Democrats are smart they will push forward a center ground liberal candidate with no baggage.

The mid-terms demonstrated that far left candidates will be shunned. As they should be.

Of course it's going to split--that's what happens in a primary election. A "center ground liberal candidate" like one of the Clintons, or Tony Blair or Macron or Merkel. Yes, just what the world needs, another reviled neoliberal technocrat. Not to mention that American Democrats can pick our own standard bearer without superficial input from distant conservatives. Finally, the midterms demonstrated no such thing. Some progressives won, some lost, but the overall grassroots energy and enthusiasm in our party is undeniably for figures like Bernie. Clinton won the battle but lost the war for the future of the party.

Democratic socialism also won’t really work in the US because our government services and bureaucracy are run like garbage. Unless the idea is to create Central Planning and fire all the lazy civil servants that congest everything.

"Run like garbage" by design, you forgot to add. The GOP's long-sought goal has been to starve government of the funding it requires so people come to exactly this misguided conclusion. When enough feel this way, they'll be more open to privatization, whereby your tax dollars are going directly to massive corporations to provide what were once public services. Not to worry though, benevolent oligarchs will be there for you in your time of need. I can't wait to buy my prescription medication from Jeff Bezos!

While Bernie Sanders seems the most sincere and honest of all the likely Democratic Party candidates I don't think that he or any of the others can win over swing voters and the working class unless the party returns to the worker friendly ways of the way it was under President Carter.

The Democratic Party has been poisoned by identity politics, racism against whites, an unhealthy association with Hollywood perverts and elites and policies like abortion on demand up until birth. And they don't have a clear economic policy. Besides more affordable medical care, they don't resonate enough with swing voters and the working class.

I'd love to see the Democratic Party return to it's foundations. But sadly I'm not holding my breath.

No major US politician cares about the working class and the poor (these are increasingly synonymous) like Bernie does. Even when I find his ideas unrealistic (such as a too-high minimum wage that might make young people unemployable), his passion for regular people always shines through. I hope he stays in politics as long as he can. Run in 2020!

Is that some radical socialism?

I didn’t say he was a radical socialist. I clearly said that the new breed are. Bernie is an old-school socialist who cares more about wages than identity politics.

Then again, he capitulated and called for abolishing ICE, even though he rightly noted in the past that illegal immigration drives down wages. Well, he’s still a politician after all.

Can’t edit my post, accidentally quoted myself. Then again, my posts are that good!

If Bernie Sanders would not join the military on moral grounds, and was open and transparent about it, I have zero objections. The same as Muhammad Ali refusing to serve on moral grounds. Disagree if you like, but they have been open about exactly why they chose to do so.

A world apart from having wealthy and well-connected parents invent medical ailments for missing service.

Based on this picture, he may win in 2020 if he campaigns using the radio only...

... For many years I am still very shocked that billions of people are having a great lack of intelligence and are fooled by minimum wage!!! A minimum wage of $15 per hour means nothing if to compare it in a small and huge company. Must be used as a measurement not just a minimum wage, but most importantly a measurement of how many times the highest pay in company is more than the lowest pay. Based on data from Germany and Japan the highest pay in these two countries is on average 10-11 times more than the lowest pay. In USA this number is about 250 times!!! Seems to me that in US the lowest paid workers are slaves. Must be a law stating that this number has to be, let's say 10. That is when we will be closer to being a fair society. People, please stop showing a great lack of common sense and be fooled by the minimum wage! It's time to get smarter and have laws stating that your top boss is not paid more than 10 times than you!!!!!!! Time to go on a world wide strike if you want to have a chance to change something. If you go on strike you make all the rich poor. Why? Because they cannot buy anything, and their billions become useless. To be continued......

policies like abortion on demand up until birth

This statement has no basis in reality.

How many Americans do you know? 

Hundreds - I’m American.

Based on this picture, he may win in 2020 if he campaigns using the radio only...

Well, the Associated Press is part of the establishment that doesn’t want an anti-establishment candidate to become president.

Howard Dean, Dukakis and Kucinich’s campaigns were destroyed in similar fashion - in the media.

Ooooooooohhhhhh! Scarey.  Raise the minimum wage.  And then people won't get jobs.  Does ask the question if minimum wage people don't get the job who does?   Far better to give the rich tax cuts because it will trickle down to the poor.  Right?  Like it has for the last thirty years?  Ask yourself, how many minimum wage workers have got richer because of tax cuts to the rich?  How many ultra rich people give a flying whatever about poor people?  I've been involved in industrial relations for far too many years to know there is a big difference between "stakeholders" ( a patronising reference to those who create the wealth), and "shareholders", who cream off the profits at the end.  Best keep the people poor, otherwise they get ideas above their station.

He should run if only to watch all the right wing enablers and mini-nazis have conniption fits. As he is donor driven not corporate, the entire USA media apparatus would be against him, but with the Clinton Dems out of the way there should be nothing to stop his success.

Age isn't a factor. He's clearly capable enough.

What are you people talking about? No seriously what are these right wing people on about? Bernie Sanders a socialist? Have you lost your damn minds? He would be considered center left at most if he was a politician in Europe. And as someone who grew up in a socialist/communist country (Yugoslavia to be specific) i can most certainly tell you that Bernie Sanders doesn't even come close to our own Josip Broz Tito and mind you Tito was one of the more easy going socialists

Congress will never go for any kind of radical Marxist socialism that people like Bernie want to impose on the country. Won’t happen.

Yep, that free healthcare/full employment/worker control possibility sure scares the hell out of the elite - be they Rep or Dem.

And Mr Sanders? Bernie's no radical Marxist socialist, this should be obvious to most. Such a shame some people don't understand basic political ideologies and instead, end up just posting word salad.

If you see Lenin or Marx in any of that, it says far more about you than reality. I mean, I could say Trump and Jeb Bush and Ron Paul are exactly the same but since I try to argue in good faith so I can't bring myself to do it. Generally, Bernie's pushing the same winning formula that ushered in a 1/2 century of Democratic ascendance in US politics under FDR all the way through LBJ's Great Society. This is why both the right and the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party are so terrified of Sanders and those like him. B/C such a platform is hugely popular, and if enacted hugely successful at improving people's quality of life. A natural consequence of a more robust regulatory state which takes as its concern the lives of average people and not elites also threatens the incredibly lucrative project that is the current focus of higher office--enriching yourself and your cronies.

Sorry, but I’m not convinced and I would never buy that. I totally believe in Capitalism and unapologetic about it and proud of it and believe it to the highest order, may the best man win, the person that works the hardest to achieve unlimited wealth. I like the self-empowerment, the absolute right to make as much wealth based on your merit, blood, sweat and determination. I believe in small government and don’t believe the government has the right to say or to dictate how much wealth I’m allowed to accumulate, that’s just nuts. I know liberals try to spin socialism as something that is grandeur and a form of blissful utopia and it’s all a load of crap. If liberals and progressives want to be like Scandinavia, then they should live there and not in the US. capitalism I believe gives you inspiration, a focus to strive to want to be better and to help others, to teach self-reliance and never to rely on others or even the government. It allows you to promote equality that everyone has the right and the ability to achieve the absolute best in life and the only way you can do that is through hardwork. I never received a job from a poor person, never. Everything I have in life was because I busted my rear end, I pay a lot in taxes, I don’t really mind, but that I need to have pity for someone that didn’t work as hard as I have, never. Again, I see exactly what hard work brings you in places like OC and then see how radical liberal socialist entitlement policies have destroyed cities like LA, SF and NYC. No thanks. Bernie would never win, personally, I hope he does run and go against Trump, even if Bernie would hypothetically win, his socialist policies are so toxic, he’d be a one term President, no doubt about it. Again, even the Democrats know this, that should tell you a lot.

And Mr Sanders? Bernie's no radical Marxist socialist,

Oh, no...not Bernie, but his policies are.

this should be obvious to most. Such a shame some people don't understand basic political ideologies and instead, end up just posting word salad.

People do, books are at the public’s disposal as well as the internet.

Bernie for a variety of reasons is guaranteed to hand Trump re-election. He looks older and tired. His communication style is worst- hectoring and scolding. He is kryptonite to rural voters in battleground states.

The Democrats have a weak bench because of the domination of the party by the Clintons for the past 20 years. Nobody wanted to get in the way of the expected coronation of Hillary at the appointed time. Notice the weakness of the field against her in 2016. Bernie to his credit gave it a real shot. It's a pity, because a candidate like Jim Webb would attract a lot more mainstream support. These days it seems that the Democrats are mostly screechy kids or geriatrics.

I totally believe in Capitalism and unapologetic about it and proud of it and believe it to the highest order, may the best man win, the person that works the hardest to achieve unlimited wealth. I like the self-empowerment, the absolute right to make as much wealth based on your merit, blood, sweat and determination.

As evidenced by your sorry-I'm-gone-golfing silver-spoon fed yuppie poster boy President eh?

Your American dream (no, we can't even call that capitalism I'm sorry) is a fixed game. If it were ever a level playing field you might be making some kind of sense here but it is not.

If liberals and progressives want to be like Scandinavia, then they should live there and not in the US.

Or they should exercise their democratic right to create a country in that image if they so please.

Be honest, you really think liberal, "progressive" and socialist are all the same thing don't you? They are expletives in your vocabulary.

Is it really that hard to step outside of your own experience or suppose how life might not be the same for everyone born in your exact position in life? Are you really that detached from humanity? Or are you simply busting your hump to be lazy?

Bernie for a variety of reasons is guaranteed to hand Trump re-election. He looks older and tired. His communication style is worst- hectoring and scolding. He is kryptonite to rural voters in battleground states. 

The Democrats have a weak bench because of the domination of the party by the Clintons for the past 20 years. Nobody wanted to get in the way of the expected coronation of Hillary at the appointed time. Notice the weakness of the field against her in 2016. Bernie to his credit gave it a real shot. It's a pity, because a candidate like Jim Webb would attract a lot more mainstream support. These days it seems that the Democrats are mostly screechy kids or geriatrics.

I completely agree with that. Spot on.

Oh, no...not Bernie, but his policies are.

Of the following examples, which ones in particular would you describe as radical Marxist socialism?

Transparency in Government.

Free college education.

Decent paid jobs.

Affordable housing.

People do, books are at the public’s disposal as well as the internet.

I recommend reading some of the former and as for the latter, steering clear of Infowars, Breitbart and whatever else the right takes as gospel and whips itself into a fury over.

He looks older and tired. His communication style is worst- hectoring and scolding.

I can't tell whether you mean Sanders or Trump, tbh.

These days it seems that the Democrats are mostly screechy kids or geriatrics.

Look closer at the new House of Representatives.

I see no screechy kids or geriatrics.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/28/us/politics/congress-freshman-class.html

Sanders / Warren 2020

That works

And with AOC coming up that'll make quite the dynasty towards a Green Deal, free education, medical care, and housing that doesn't involve sleeping in cars, or motor homes, in parking lots

Get you act together USA

Hundreds - I’m American.

Forgive the friendly fire. Sounds like we're on the same team. But I don't know where you get this notion that Americans aren't discussing inequality. Have you been home in recent years? I spent a month in Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland ahead of the election, in both affluent and working class/rural areas and I'd say it's about all we did discuss when politics came up, which was pretty frequently. There may be a lot of confusion being sown and propaganda being broadcast (on what should be public airwaves), but I'd just say never underestimate what Americans are capable of grasping. Of course, if someone like Sanders were to gain a bigger soapbox they might grasp a whole lot more, a very different narrative about what's gone wrong in their lives. God knows the neoliberal meritocratic tenets of the Clintons, regularly espoused by a supposedly left-wing media, haven't been successful at countering Fox and Friends, amirite?

It has nothing to do with capitalism.

Yes, of course, and the Nordic countries are exactly like the USSR. And the Roosevelts are the equivalent of Mao. Such attempts to flatten out discourse should be beneath you. No one is interested in seizing factories or ending markets outright. What we hope to do is keep in check the worst impulses of predatory crony/corporate capitalism. But I appreciate the longer comment. Yes, it's what the standard language of a would-be Randian hero but I can see that it's genuinely how you feel.

As evidenced by your sorry-I'm-gone-golfing silver-spoon fed yuppie poster boy President eh? 

What’s wrong with being spoiled, if you have money, you can use it in any manner you please.

Your American dream (no, we can't even call that capitalism I'm sorry) is a fixed game.

Socialism is fixed as well, you’re taking someone else’s money. You’re not creating it.

If it were ever a level playing field you might be making some kind of sense here but it is not.

My parents grew up poor and knew the only way to rise above the fray, you can’t make excuses or compromise on your goals. “Never let your fear of failure be greater than your desire to succeed.”

Or they should exercise their democratic right to create a country in that image if they so please. 

That’s the socialists can never retain power in the US, it doesn’t work, would never work.

Be honest, you really think liberal, "progressive" and socialist are all the same thing don't you? They are expletives in your vocabulary. 

Socialists also believe in the equitable distribution of productivity gains. They believe that those who worked more, deserve to be given more.

Progressivism goes for a mixed economy where the basic features of capitalism and socialism are present. Supporters of progressivism believe that wealth should be distributed equally among members of society. Where wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few, such wealth must be put under the control of a democratic political establishment.

No thanks! No way! .

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/difference-between-socialism-and-progressivism/#ixzz5YhLuudOs

Is it really that hard to step outside of your own experience or suppose how life might not be the same for everyone born in your exact position in life?

I understand, but that doesn’t mean I buy the lame argument that the country need handouts. The country needs more Capitalism, more job training, job opportunities, to get a lot of lazy people off of their parents couch, out of the basement and to put the game down and actually check out life outside of the comfortable confinement’s of their homes.

Bernie who? Oh, that guy that got the shaft from Hillary.

Remember when.

Bernie Sanders (and his supporters)

"His attacks caused lasting damage, making it harder to unify progressives in the general election and paving the way for Trump's 'Crooked Hillary' campaign." It’s time for Bernie to retire and go fishing in his fishing hole on Moosehead Lake and contemplate what could have been.

@sf2K

 free education, medical care, and housing.

On the backs of American tax payers? No! Earn it like everyone else.

but that I need to have pity for someone that didn’t work as hard as I have, never.

I know. People who work 80 hours a week and still live in poverty are lazy bums who deserve no pity. Bernie Sanders is crazy to think manual laborers should be able to feed their family or allow their kids to get a decent education or afford an operation or have any shred of dignity. What a crazy man! These people should get with the program and get into pharmaceuticals or finance.

Personally, I admire rich people like Donald Trump who inherited his wealth from his daddy through tax fraud, spent his entire career as a con man borrowing other people's money, stiffed contractors when he went bankrupt multiple times, and laundered Russian mobsters' money by selling them condos in Trump Tower. That's what I call a real American success story, one that brings tears to my eyes.

may the best man win, the person that works the hardest to achieve unlimited wealth. I like the self-empowerment, the absolute right to make as much wealth based on your merit, blood, sweat and determination

You forgot the part about having a rich mommy or daddy. Then again, your tirade doesn't hold up if you admit being a rich kid gives you an enormous advantage and negates the part about the person working the hardest.

I understand, but that doesn’t mean I buy the lame argument that the country need handouts.

Especially to farmers, oil companies, and the rich. Am I right?

A little known fact about Bernie is he applied for Consciousness Objector status and when denied on appeal he ran to Israel to live on a kibbutz for two years. Now that's a DRAFT DODGER...

Hardly a secret. As Sanders himself has said:

When I was a young man — I’m not a young man today. When I was a young man, I strongly opposed the war in Vietnam. Not the brave men like Jim who fought in that war, but the policy which got us involved in that war. That was my view then … I am not a pacifist, Anderson. I supported the war in Afghanistan. I supported President Clinton’s effort to deal with ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. I support air strikes in Syria and what the president is trying to do.

Yes, I happen to believe from the bottom of my heart that war should be the last resort that we have got to exercise diplomacy. But yes, I am prepared to take this country into war if that is necessary.

He had long opposed the Vietnam war as being immoral, so he stood by his convictions. Unlike Trump he wasn't a coward.

@plasticmonkey?

I know. People who work 80 hours a week and still live in poverty are lazy bums who deserve no pity. 

Really? Do tell. What country would that be? 80 hours a week right?

Some basic math x $10.00 an hour = 800.00 a week x 4 weeks in a month= $3200.00 a month.

Sheer poverty! God help them.

Yeah maybe in some thrid world country maybe.

No thanks! No way! .

Thereis no evidence that Sanders supports the versions of socialism that you portray. Socialism is ac term that covers a both far left and mainstream left. The definition you quote is what most consider to be communism or Marxism, when it quite clearly isn't.

Forgive the friendly fire. Sounds like we're on the same team. But I don't know where you get this notion that Americans aren't discussing inequality. Have you been home in recent years?

Yes I go back NYC and/or Raleigh NC once a year or so.

The vast majority of my family and friends are Dems.

Basically, almost everyone I know who supported Clinton in last election has no problem with neoliberalism. They, as you can imagine, are fairly well off, and would rather focus on identity politics than class. To them America is a great and fair meritocracy. The (elitist) system is the best there is and status is the reward - and life’s ultimate goal - and they, being open-minded, have no problem with people of every race, religion, or sexual orientation being elitist too.

Only family and friends who supported Sanders could get past left vs right and identity politics to focus on top vs bottom - issues of economic inequality.

Things may be changing recently- I hope so.

There is no way in this lifetime Mr. Sanders will ever sit in the oval office.

Sanders is a good man and a necessity in politics and did his civic duty.

Personally. I have nothing against the man. Matter of fact what happened to him in the last election was foul.

At 77 years of age? I am sorry. That ship has sailed.

Chip Star: You forgot the part about having a rich mommy or daddy. Then again, your tirade doesn't hold up if you admit being a rich kid gives you an enormous advantage and negates the part about the person working the hardest.

Sure, his parents might have been rich, but thy gave him nothing and everything he has is due to his own hard work. His parents didn’t believe in handouts. He got a lot less than his lower middle class friends which gave him the work ethic he has today,

Just assuming here. It makes for a better American story.

bass, can you confirm that this was the case?

Really? Do tell. What country would that be? 80 hours a week right? 

Some basic math x $10.00 an hour = 800.00 a week x 4 weeks in a month= $3200.00 a month.

Sheer poverty! God help them. 

Yeah maybe in some thrid world country maybe.

I know Americans in the US that work 80 hours a week and lube in poverty. Try feeding a family and providing shelter on $3,200 a month.

Super: I stand corrected. Never mind that having rich parents lessens one's exposure to risk, etc.

@chipstar.

Well then if you’re only making $3200.00 a month. Maybe one might think not to start a family. As outrageous as that may seem. I would need to take a hard look at myself trying to raise a family on $3200.00 a month in some place like Manhattan? Or maybe L.A. I know a family in Alabama making less who own a house and are doing just fine. A young couple (family) with a promising future. To many variables.

Sanders is a pugilistic politician but a decent man. He didn’t fully take the gloves off with Clinton and perhaps that was a mistake, but as I wrote, he is a decent man.

It’s always a good thing to have decent people fighting a leftwing or a rightwing corner. It’s a refreshing change to the idiocy in charge.

@Jimizo.

Spot on. He is a good man. There is no doubt. I am Republican too. He brings balance to politics and is very intelligent man. He really did need to go after Clinton. As I said in my pervious post. What Clinton and the DNC did to his campaign was just foul.

Basically, almost everyone I know who supported Clinton in last election has no problem with neoliberalism. They, as you can imagine, are fairly well off, and would rather focus on identity politics than class. To them America is a great and fair meritocracy. The (elitist) system is the best there is and status is the reward - and life’s ultimate goal - and they, being open-minded, have no problem with people of every race, religion, or sexual orientation being elitist too.

Only family and friends who supported Sanders could get past left vs right and identity politics to focus on top vs bottom - issues of economic inequality.

Things may be changing recently- I hope so.

I know plenty of folks like this too but just b/c they elected a legacy candidate like Clinton over Bernie doesn't mean they represent any kind of majority sentiment. What did Hillary get, some 16 million vote vs. Bernie's 13 mil? And he destroyed her among the youngs. But you're right, many Clinton supporters only seem interested in broadening representation in boardrooms and war-rooms. If only a brown person could bomb poor nations, putting a better face on our ongoing wars, or if only a woman, say Sheryl Sandberg could head up one of the most evil companies on the planet.

Beyond that, unlike a lot of partisan dems, I'm unwilling to malign all of Trump's supporters, a rather large number of which voted for Obama, although that's been conveniently forgotten. They might surprise a lot of people if presented with a choice between Trump's noxious white nationalism and Bernie's New Deal ethos. Thus all the effort on the part of the right (and neoliberals) to kill off new voices on the left (Ocasio-Cortez for instance). Fox isn't obsessed with her b/c she poses no threat to the status quo. When they spend more time talking about her than Joe Biden, you know you're on the right track.

In the end, don't let the media, itself "fairly well off" to tell you what working class Americans think. Any more than you'd let Fox explain it for you. They both have a vested interest in preserving a rotten establishment.

Well then if you’re only making $3200.00 a month. Maybe one might think not to start a family. As outrageous as that may seem. I would need to take a hard look at myself trying to raise a family on $3200.00 a month in some place like Manhattan? Or maybe L.A. I know a family in Alabama making less who own a house and are doing just fine. A young couple (family) with a promising future. To many variables.

None of this changes the fact that your ridicule of Plastic was unwarranted and based on incorrect assumptions.

I know. People who work 80 hours a week and still live in poverty are lazy bums who deserve no pity.

You will always have poor people, always. What I would do is look somewhere else, I was driven by money to make money and I never let a bump in the road stop me, I would make stuff happen.

You forgot the part about having a rich mommy or daddy.

My parents are rich, so what? My siblings and I had everything we needed, nothing more, after that we were on our own, everything after that wasn’t given, it was borrowed and then given back, No freebies.

Then again, your tirade doesn't hold up if you admit being a rich kid gives you an enormous advantage and negates the part about the person working the hardest.

No, it does actually, because my parents were old school, we weren’t spoiled, but we were privileged and when our parents gave us money, once we got situated, we had to pay every single cent back. Basically, it was the same as taking a loan, but without going through the bank, but the payback was the same and no arguments and honor your words and I teach my kids the same. Whatever you NEED will be provided, but if you want to go beyond that, get a job and pay for it yourself. Do I feel lucky and blessed, yes, I do. Do I think I’m better, certainly not! We are all the same, I just believe in not spooning off the government and burdening the tax payer.

@jcapan.

With statements like. “The government’s next steps towards fighting climate change need to be as momentous as the Civil Rights movement or NASA's push to put a man on the moon.” from the young Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Who was this targeted for? Right the youngs as you put it so eloquently.

Right out Bill Clintons campaign playbook I think with rallying the young base. What’s next from her? Saxophone jamming on CNN? Sorry, I would much rather here if the true threat former Vice President Joe Biden is going to take run for office.

Alexandria Casio-Cortez is one to watch no doubt.

 When they spend more time talking about her than Joe Biden, you know you're on the right track.

That’s up for debate. What do you mean by the right track? The right tracks for Dems?

@bass

Whatever you NEED will be provided, but if you want to go beyond that, get a job and pay for it yourself. Do I feel lucky and blessed, yes, I do. Do I think I’m better, certainly not! We are all the same, I just believe in not spooning off the government and burdening the tax payer.

Sounds like a common sense upbringing to me. Love it.

Sorry for typos or grammatical errors this evening. As usual I am multitasking. Have a good evening reader's. As usual always entertaining reading into other's thoughts and opinions.

@chipstar.

None of this changes the fact that your ridicule of Plastic was unwarranted and based on incorrect assumptions.

Ridiculed? Really? Come on. That is a stretch. My comments are only to shed light on a topic or open up a different point of view. Try to engage thought from the opposite angle.

I have met Sen. Sanders, contributed to his campaign, and voted for him. That said, if he won the 2020 election, he would be 80 years old when sworn in. Granting that even a dead snail would be a better president than Trump, I think that being 80 years old constitutes as disqualification for fulfilling the duties of president.

The old farts should step aside on both sides of the aisle. McConnell, Pelosi, Biden to Trump, bollocks to elitist baby-boomers. They made the mess let the millennials through.

"And for goodness sake don't try and foist Clinton on everyone again."

Trump's hoping they do!

Clinton-Ocasio-Cortez 2020!

bass: when our parents gave us money, once we got situated, we had to pay every single cent back.

How much did you borrow from your parents?

Chip Star:

You might not be aware that Bernie Sander’s party platform (Democratic Party) as seen on it’s web page states clearly the party’s support for abortion. No restrictions are mentioned whatsoever.

https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf

This is out of step with Americans of whom around 60% supported the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act which was introduced by Republicans to outlaw abortion after 20 weeks. Democrats in the Senate defeated the proposal.

This barbaric policy, besides identity politics, racism against whites, misandry against men and no clear economic policy will make it difficult for Bernie and his Democrats to win in 2020.

PS: I would love to see the Democratic Party return to the way it was under President Jimmy Carter

Gen X here, I didn't vote for President Trump last time but will next time :)

BERNIE FUN FACT:

Bernie was a loser on welfare who couldn't/wouldn't hold a job until he was in his 40's, living in an abandoned maple sugar shack. Then he figured out how to get elected to public office by running his mouth and feeding fuel to the fires of resentment and envy.

Bernie was a loser on welfare who couldn't/wouldn't hold a job until he was in his 40's, living in an abandoned maple sugar shack. Then he figured out how to get elected to public office by running his mouth and feeding fuel to the fires of resentment and envy.

And that's how the Civil Rights Movement is seen these days in bizarro world America. An activist but also a supporter of veterans benefits is now seen as a loser.

BERNIE FUN FACT:

Ye gods. How do you keep a straight face?

VOTE BERNIE 2020!

He'll make THEM pay for YOUR mistakes!

why couldn't Donald Trump, bone spurs and all, have served in the ways you suggest Bernie Sanders and other conscientious objectors could have done?

Medal of Honor recipient Desmond Doss was a conscientious objector, but he went on the battlefield as an unarmed medic and saved hundreds of lives.

The military should make certain positions available for conscientious objectors that do not include combat duty, like rear area engineer, clerk, signal transmission, meteorology, cook, etc..

What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. I hate to say it, but if the Democrats show up to the party in 2020 with Bernie and Hillary again, we're just going to end up with another 4 years of Trump.

Like others have said, we need fresh blood. But please not someone like Ocasio-Cortez. Listening to her speak, she really comes off as unintelligent. And I don't want to hear any 'but Trump is stupid too' nonsense. You don't want him in there either!