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Saudi Arabia admits Khashoggi killed in Istanbul consulate; Trump finds explanation believable

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By MOHAMMED AL-SHAIKH

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Will Trump follow through or do an about-face as he is wont to do?

16 ( +18 / -2 )

Well I guess the evidence is in.

18 ( +18 / -0 )

I find this whole situation appalling. By most accounts, he was not just "killed", he was tortured, dismembered - apparently they started cutting him up while he was still alive - and his body is being searched for in a forest. All this in an embassy .

For anyone to try and stick up for Saudi Arabian authorities is horrific. This is what our world's leaders have become. Money-grubbing murderers and apologists for tyranny.

43 ( +45 / -2 )

And after the fist fight they accidentally chopped him into pieces. Right. I get it.

31 ( +32 / -1 )

Who was he fist fighting Edward EL Ali Siccor Hands?

19 ( +20 / -1 )

Yeah, a fight against 14 guys who were holding him down so the 15th guy could dismember him alive.

Someone must have explained to the Saudis the value of a Friday night news dump.

26 ( +27 / -1 )

Ok, story is cheesy, kind of creative, far fetched, so the Saudis will probably use these men as scapegoats and then in turn for admission of guilt and remorse will have these same men executed. Smart move, plausible deniability. Some concessions will be made and after that will be business as usual, privately does a lot of condensation going on in a lot of finger-pointing in the lower temp is flaring. The Turks need to Saudis just as a much is we do.

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

Be careful to anyone wishing to apply for a visa to this country. This incident is definitely horrific. I hope they do away with diplomatic immunity in this case. Let the punishment serve the crime.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Barbaric country! I can't believe Saudi Arabia is ally with US. This reminds me of some past dictators torturing and killing many many innocent people.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

As if MBS had nothing to do with this. Blame it all on his “rogue” agents who got out of hand and accidentally chopped up a journalist who was critical of their boss.

Trump will accept this as sufficient to let SA off the hook.

He shouldn’t.

18 ( +21 / -3 )

For all our criticisms of Saudi Arabia, they have done one thing Trump is fundamentally incapable of doing, has never done, and will never do: Admit the truth.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

The Saudis will claim this man was a terrorist. Dump team will claim Khasshogi was a leaker or some kind of bad guy. Dump will say he doesn't really know, but he has the same problem with the media. Then he will some how make it about himself and what a great job he is doing.

The evangelicals leaders will come forth claiming the Saudis are our friends and Iran is the real enemy. They always need a reason to support Dump and justify their ignoring of religious principles for the sake of money and power.

Only the rubes don't see the pattern!

14 ( +15 / -1 )

The Saudis will claim this man was a terrorist.

Probably.

Dump team will claim Khasshogi was a leaker or some kind of bad guy. Dump will say he doesn't really know,

You don’t know that, we don’t know that and whatever the reason or excuse that will come out of it will just have to be excepted.

but he has the same problem with the media. Then he will some how make it about himself and what a great job he is doing.

What?

The evangelicals leaders will come forth claiming the Saudis are our friends and Iran is the real enemy.

Which is very true, but let’s be clear, the Saudis aren’t our friends either.

They always need a reason to support Dump and justify their ignoring of religious principles for the sake of money and power.

I don’t know what that meant, but I’m assuming you are not happy about this.

Only the rubes don't see the pattern!

Both parties care about power money and both parties would never do anything without Saudi Arabia, now I get it there is an election and the Democrats want to half an path and save a rattle, I really get it, but the situation is we need the Saudi’s and there’s no other way to put it and it doesn’t matter what the little people think or say or feel, it’s what is in the big picture and we need the Saudi’s, pure and simple.

-21 ( +4 / -25 )

If they said he had leprocy and simply fell apart during the altercation with a forensic pathologist who happened to have a bone saw in has back pocket, now that's are more believable story than this tripe.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Ok, story is cheesy, kind of creative, far fetched, so the Saudis will probably use these men as scapegoats and then in turn for admission of guilt and remorse will have these same men executed.

Okay, and then?

Some concessions will be made and after that will be business as usual, privately does a lot of condensation going on in a lot of finger-pointing in the lower temp is flaring.

What?

The Turks need to Saudis just as a much is we do.

What?

Both parties care about power money and both parties would never do anything without Saudi Arabia, now I get it there is an election and the Democrats want to half an path and save a rattle, I really get it

What?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

will just have to be excepted.

Trumpsters are good at excepting reality.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Trump this week applauded a congressman buddy who was convicted of violent assault on a journalist, so we should't expect him to do much to admonish his valuable Saudi customers. Their fistfight nonsense gives him an excuse to do nothing. 'America First, After Me of Course'

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Find any connections with companies you do business with or buy products from and if they are Saudi owned, operated or even at an arm's length don't buy it.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

As we speak, literally the King of SA has sent the Governer of Mecca to meet with Erdogan. He’s overriding his son the crown prince and smoothing over this debacle.

Now mark my words...

In several days Trump will accept Saudi Arabia’s version of what manages to get Erdogan to agree to not reveal. 18 Saudis have been arrested in Turkey. The Saudis dismissed two top officials. The forest is being searched as is the chief Saudi diplomats residence.

The truth of these things must not come out to the public and we will be wide faced lied to.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Okay, and then?

That’s it. Then we go about our daily business or for the left, back to Russia.

What?

It’s about money, something the left doesn’t understand, they just only understand taking it and giving it to others.

-16 ( +3 / -19 )

Trumpsters are good at excepting reality

Something the left is horrible at.

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

Well, the Left's media narrative here in the U.S. that President Trump personally ordered the killing of Khasoggi from the Oval Offfice just blew up in their faces.

This is the essence of Trump supporters: Nothing substantive to add so push a blatant falsehood.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

@Bass4funk

It’s about money, something the left doesn’t understand, they just only understand taking it and giving it to others.

LOL! Quit the lies!

Many solid Republican states are net recipients of government money, and those damn liberal states like NY, NJ, California etc. pay out to the Fed much more than they get back.

In fact, the poorest and most bankrupt States in the Union are solid Republican States. The main reason why they receive so much!

10 ( +13 / -3 )

The discussions between Jamal Khashoggi and those he met at the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul... devolved into a fistfight, leading to his death," the Saudi Press Agency said, citing the public prosecutor.

Also, a Saudi forensic doctor in possession of a bone saw just happened to be visiting for the day.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Ok, story is cheesy, kind of creative, far fetched

It’s actually more plausible than the roaringly stupid tabloid trash Trump has repeated in the past.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

This is all so depressing, isn't it? Trump encourages hatred towards the media, he coddles dictators and then he bends over backwards to believe they're innocent of the worst crimes when he knows they're not. Trump praises a fellow Republican for assaulting a reporter with gestures of body slams to a wild crowd of fans, who are eating all of this stuff up like hogs at feeding time. Are you not entertained? All of this happening during a time when this poor man, Khashoggi, has been killed and chopped up into so many pieces by the very people who Trump loves.

It's all about pure greed with this guy, not human rights.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

My comments are expressed nicely in this editorial by the Globle and Mail, Toronto.

Globe editorial: Why we must always denounce countries that silence their critics

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-globe-editorial-why-we-must-always-denounce-countries-that-silence/

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Clearly the only truth in this is the Saudi govt KILLED him.

The rest is just the made up story, the best they could make up to date to TRY & make it look like those high in Saudi govt were not involved...………..yeah   right!

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Elections around the corner, he has to do something.

Pocahontas out, better not talk about the Stormy thing.

Invest everything on the caravan!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Did the Saudis explain why such a large group of men (possibly with a bone saw) needed to fly over to meet this man who was only picking up some routine paperwork for a private matter?

13 ( +14 / -1 )

 The Turks need to Saudis just as a much is we do.

so Trump should let them off the hook or not give out too much punishment, becuase you know $billions in arms exports is worth far more than a journalists slaughter dismemberment and disposal by a foreign government in the confines of another nation!? I wonder how the responce would be if the Saudis did this in their embassy in the US!?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The West have Khashoggi's blood on their hands; they've created a monster & Saudis believe -as they did in 2001- that they're untouchable & can act with impunity.

Heads will probably roll and I wouldn't want to be in MBS' entourage right now; the bloke has to give us (the west) someone/something. The man himself is safe though as it is in no one's interest to prove he's directly involved or was even aware of what was about to happen. Sadly, everyone's happy with this 'dude, you owe me/us one' situation.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The Saudis, if pressed, might (though it is unlikely) name the killers’ names. But it is extremely unlikely they’ll name who authorized this torture-murder. They’ll get away with it, of course, as they have their mass murders in Yemen.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

bass4funk: "Both parties care about power money and both parties would never do anything without Saudi Arabia"

Hogwash. Obama at least stood up to Saudi Arabia on some things. Your man Trump literally gives Taylor Swift a more difficult time than a country that has murdered THOUSANDS of innocents in Yemen (with US weapons), and now this absolutely appalling incident. In fact, your president has flat out stated he won't do it because he loves the money he gets from them for his hotels, and that this would hurt economic deals and "one man's not Worth it". But hey, if we're wrong, let's have Trump disclose his business dealings with Saudi Arabia.

So, while both parties may stop short of severing ties, NO ONE would do what Trump is doing except Trump, and that is 100% selling out the nation. Hell, even GOP senators are demanding Trump do more and cut some deals with SA. You personally, you praise the SA in their handling of this.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Let's see; an old man picks a fight with 10-15 bodyguards; falls on a bone saw a number of times, accidentally cutting off his fingers and limbs; then what remains of his body lands on a syringe filled with a lethal injection. Even the J-police would have a hard time calling this an accident or suicide.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Trump will accept whatever far-fetched lies they come up with because he is himself a pathological liar, and is only interested in the amount of money he will be able to take off the Al Sauds in future by having their back now. Everytime you think he can't sink any lower, he shows you the limits of your imagination.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Saudi Arabia is a state sponsor of terror. I hope people can put politics aside and recognise this.

Also, it's not just Trump that's being political and financially driven. Back in late 2016 when congress overrode Obama's veto which prevented 9/11 families from pursuing claims against Saudi Arabia in US courts, I distinctly remember some of the same posters commenting above mentioning how damaging it would be to the US economy and how Obama was being wise by barring these cases from even being heard.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

backwards barbaric country Saudi is....but hey they give money to Trump who cares about human rights...certainly not his bandwagon of fruit loop supporters...

7 ( +7 / -0 )

"The kingdom also announced the sacking of a top intelligence official Ahmad al-Assiri and royal court media advisor Saud al-Qahtani, both top aides to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman who has faced mounting pressure over the Khashoggi affair."

They're not going to arrest the Crown prince and put him on trial?

"The discussions between Jamal Khashoggi and those he met at the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul... devolved into a fistfight, leading to his death,"

The "discussions." Right.

"I guess the evidence is in."

The confession is in. Has anyone heard the audio except the Turks who claim it exists?

"Will Trump follow through"

Will Xi or Putin or anyone else do anything at all?

Trump talks defense budget, reacts to Khashoggi death

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c5cSx4zRUo

Rep. King on how Khashoggi impacts US-Saudi Arabia relations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBYRAlfYBHo

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Saudi Arabia is a state sponsor of terror. I hope people can put politics aside and recognise this.

yep and they were noticable absent on the Muslim ban list, money hides away a lot of evil

10 ( +10 / -0 )

@PM

Trumpsters are good at excepting reality.

Brilliant! I don't think you were understood judging by some of the following comments though.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@serrano "Will Trump follow through"

Will Xi or Putin or anyone else do anything at all?

The man brutally murdered was a reporter for a US newspaper, not Russian or Chinese paper. Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post, a paper Trump and his supporters call 'fake news'. Trump's not going to lift a finger on this, except perhaps to count the cash the House of Saud will be sending him.

Why do you continue to link Trump with Putin and Xi? Trump's a wannabe dictator, Putin and Xi full-on dictators.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

So trump finds this explanation “credible”.

What a weak and low lying scum bag, capitulating once more to vile and murderous dictators.

I’d like to say trump supporters have no shame, but heh, well y’know.....

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Nobody believes the Saudi's lies, not even Trump. Which makes any government's support for Saudi Arabian leadership that much more disturbing. They can't say they didn't know they are supporting a terrorist thug state.

Ditto those who support Russia, China, North Korea.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I wonder how many of the peeps commentating like experts here have ever set foot in an Arab nation or know anything about Saudi Arabia, Turkey or anything related.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

LOL!

New Poll displays the alt-reality of Trump/Trumpsters

But the left overlooked this.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/11/the-democrats-blue-wave-is-drying-up/

LOL! Quit the lies! 

True, the left wouldn’t have a clue as to what to do or how to handle this.

Many solid Republican states are net recipients of government money, and those damn liberal states like NY, NJ, California etc. pay out to the Fed much more than they get back.

Oh, that’s not what I’m talking about, the lefts mantra has been always been about full income redistribution and implementing high taxes. And when you look at those states like California New Jersey and New York you can see especially in California how all this income distribution has completely wrecked that state and New York and to some extent New Jersey as well.

In fact, the poorest and most bankrupt States in the Union are solid Republican States. The main reason why they receive so much!

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/406595-california-has-highest-poverty-rate-in-us-feds

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Another conservative pushing falsehoods about the democrats. The Dems have never promoted full income redistribution.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Hogwash. Obama at least stood up to Saudi Arabia on some things.

Not when it came to Yemen, absolutely not.

Your man Trump literally gives Taylor Swift a more difficult time than a country that has murdered THOUSANDS of innocents in Yemen (with US weapons),

Oh, don’t go there, the last President supported the Iranian regime and we all know what they have been doing, so don’t go there.

and now this absolutely appalling incident. In fact, your president has flat out stated he won't do it because he loves the money he gets from them for his hotels,

First, he never said that and second, Trump sees and knows what’s at stake, liberals don’t because they’re so wrapped up in their safe space emotional meltdown. Trump digs his heels on the Saudis, they can easily crush us on oil, go and do business with Russia and or with China and then we will really be in a world of.....

 So, while both parties may stop short of severing ties, NO ONE would do what Trump is doing except Trump,

Exactly, which is a smart thing, that’s the business side and not the political side, the politics of this and how both parties would handle this would kill the US economy on so many levels, you need to think about to go about this, calmly and rationally, something the left is horrible at.

.

You personally, you praise the SA in their handling of this

No, I know full well what’s at stake and I’m not kidding myself and see reality for what it is. The Saudis will get away with it, they will try and save face, in public we will smile, the deals will continue and that’s that.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

This is how ignorant and gullible Trump is:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-saudi-explanation-khashoggi-death-credible-important-first-020448450.html

What an utter imbecile, which is exactly what his barely literate supporters deserve.

Funny that conservatives rail on the left for acting like a collective when they immediately start parroting whatever is broadcast on Fox "News." For instance, the "Trump is walking a thin line" nonsense regarding Trump's tepid response to a permanent resident of the US being tortured and dismembered by Saudi Arabia.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Conservatives simply can't help themselves when it comes to pushing falsehoods.

Obama did not support Iran.

Its hilarious how conservatives are worried about SA running to Russia or China when conservatives haven't made a peep about Trump's jackassery regarding other issues allowing the Russians and Chinese to fill the void left by Trump.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What an utter imbecile, which is exactly what his barely literate supporters deserve.

So far it seems like the left also enjoying this great economy, not bad for an imbecile.

Funny that conservatives rail on the left for acting like a collective when they immediately start parroting whatever is broadcast on Fox "News."

As the left do with CNN and msnbc

For instance, the "Trump is walking a thin line" nonsense regarding Trump's tepid response to a permanent resident of the US being tortured and dismembered by Saudi Arabia.

Yes, that’s the lefts take, that’s the reason why none of these people are President. Go figure.

Another conservative pushing falsehoods about the democrats. The Dems have never promoted full income redistribution.

Yes, they have, and higher taxes, they’re definitely NOT for small government, low taxes.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

No, President Trump is not going to jeopardize US interests for a crime committed outside the US.

The economic effects outweigh the risk....

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I can see how this panned out.  59 year old, bespectacled and overweight  Khashoggi, hoping to soon get married, finds himself facing up to 15 security agents, "You want to mess with me?  You want to mess with me?  Bring it on you mothers!"  And then he unfortunately got a knock to his head which equally unfortunately killed him.  Then, the 15 agents, understandably panicked, decided the best option was to dismember him and dump him in a forest.  I can buy that,  No winners here,  If Only he had not attacked 15 people this would never had happened.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"Khashoggi was killed during a "brawl" inside its Istanbul consulate, an explanation that U.S. President Donald Trump said he found credible"

I'm sure there was a brawl/fight, short-lived as it was - most people would try to fight back when being attacked by people who obviously want to torture and kill you, no? I know I would.

"The nuclear deal slowed down Iran's march towards a nuclear device. Facts are difficult."

But the Iranians aren't supposed to be developing nuclear bombs, they claim their nuclear program is for peaceful energy production.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Most people would fight back when attacked. Most people wouldn't start a fight when it is 15 on 1, which is the line Trump is swallowing.

Nobosy believed Iran was only pursuing nuclear technology for energy purposes only.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

These comments of outrage are kinda silly imo

Claiming Obama is good, Trump is bad or the reverse. Both of these administrations have shown themselves to be self serving and corrupt!

You really believe its just the reds or the blues?? puh-leeze!

This is not a moral planet we live on! What exactly did you expect? That the Americans, Saudi’s and Turks would all get together and tell the truth to the common folk of the world???

What on earth did you think would happen??

I’m not surprised...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Claiming Obama is good, Trump is bad or the reverse. Both of these administrations have shown themselves to be self serving and corrupt!

Agreed.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Saudi Arabia is a state sponsor of terror. I hope people can put politics aside and recognise this.

I hope people will also recognize that the US and Isreal are just as bad. The only difference is that the Saudis are incredibly incompetent at it; I guess they never felt the need to hide it. They murdered the guy at their embassy, with a video clearly showing the guy entering but not exiting. The 15 men involved in the murder are all on video, and 7 of them belong to MbS’s personal security and protection detail. Not very smart; they forgot about the all-important plausible deniability.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Not very smart; they forgot about the all-important plausible deniability.

I think it more likely that they know in the age of Trump, they don't even need to bother denying it in the long-run. Trump's proven his fealty already.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

they can easily crush us on oil

WRONG!

.....as a result, U.S. reliance on foreign oil has declined. Saudi oil imports to the U.S.account for roughly 9 percent of total crude imports

(news source)

Trump is just worried that the Saudis will buy less of his Trump apartments making Trump and Jared poorer. Trump is worried about his properties business. If he punishes Saudi Arabia it will damage Trump's hotel business. That is what he is afraid of.

this would kill the US economy

WRONG! (see above)

Trump wants journalists to be assaulted and suffer. There is proof of that.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

So the Saudis admit to having spent the last two weeks lying about Khashoggi; that's something. We can also assume the lying, murdering crown prince knew about it too. Now I would like the Saudis to explain why an autopsy specialist and a bone saw were present at this "fist fight" and to reveal what they did with the body. We can be sure there will be more than a few bruises on it, if it is ever found.

privately does a lot of condensation going on in a lot of finger-pointing in the lower temp is flaring. The Turks need to Saudis just as a much is we do

This is an interesting collection of random words: would you care to elaborate?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

That’s it. Then we go about our daily business or for the left, back to Russia.

What?

It’s about money, something the left doesn’t understand, they just only understand taking it and giving it to others.

What's your point?

No, I know full well what’s at stake and I’m not kidding myself and see reality for what it is.

Okay, and then?

Yes, that’s the lefts take, that’s the reason why none of these people are President. Go figure.

What?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Here we go again, MBS and Trump out of the same mold, throw those in you inner circle under the bus , and then deny everything to protect your own ar#e. Both are cowards and bullies, the world would be better off without both of them, plus you could add a few more to the list.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It would be hard to imagine an altercation in front of a political leader that couldn’t be stopped quickly. Did the security folks go on potty break? DT believes them, though, so after an execution or two all will be back to normal. There should be another Stormy Daniels tweet by then.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

It's unfortunate that the typical Trump supporters here, who see their entire world thru a left/right lens, try to make this into a partisan issue - it's not. This is a human rights issue that all Americans should condemn.

This is about a nation ordering the torture and murder of one of its own citizens merely because he dared to publish news critical of the regime - executed without due process (for those so vocal during the Kavanaugh battle).

This is just one more example of dictators and tyrants feeling untethered to normal rules and behavior - the Saudi's kill a journalist, Xi kidnaps the head of interpol, Putin sends his thugs with Novochuk to murder dissidents.

And there's one reason for this - America under Trump is no longer the moral leader of the world - we don't lead, we ignore, and Tyrants know they will no longer be held accountable. The gloves are off....

It's just one more example of the reduced stature and standing of America in the world under Trump.

Putin rejoices...

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Trump believes MBS is not guilty??? Trump buys that scenario. Wha ha ha?? The Saudis wont execute MSB but dozens of others will get the axe, not right. Take that towel head out into the desert and whack him just like he ordered Khashoggi murdered and take Trump along to watch and then Donny boy will deny he was there. Wha ha ha!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Trump believes MBS is not guilty??? 

He believes he is not more guilty than the average head of State (himself included). Reread Trump's declaration over torture when he was campaigning. Most heads of State think like him, even if many fear that admiting it would make them lose votes. They believe (and I don't ) in what we call in French 'raison d'Etat' . I can't find a satisfying English translation. It's when the political leaders decide to order something illegal, unethical under the pretext it will save their country from a threat.

the Saudi's kill a journalist, Xi kidnaps the head of interpol, Putin sends his thugs with Novochuk to murder dissidents.

Your indignation is selective... The Americans fly people abducted in Middle East into their American jails (torture centers ? can we visit Guantanamo ? ), transiting via Turkey and other countries that did not allow it. Former French president writes in his tell'n kiss book that he signed orders for 'targetted assasinations', Mossad's way of life is doing such ops, idem for North Korea. Well, it's a fact that all sorts of countries use their secret services to spy, abduct, torture or kill those that bother them. We already have on the list for such operations in the last decade as I won't go back to 'operation Lady Di' (joking) : North Korea, Israel, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, the US and France.... others might do it with more talent so we are not aware of their exploits.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

the Saudi's kill a journalist, Xi kidnaps the head of interpol, Putin sends his thugs with Novochuk to murder dissidents.

Your indignation is selective... The Americans fly people abducted in Middle East into their American jails (torture centers ? can we visit Guantanamo ? ), transiting via Turkey and other countries that did not allow it. Former French president writes in his tell'n kiss book that he signed orders for 'targetted assasinations', Mossad's way of life is doing such ops, idem for North Korea. Well, it's a fact that all sorts of countries use their secret services to spy, abduct, torture or kill those that bother them. We already have on the list for such operations in the last decade as I won't go back to 'operation Lady Di' (joking) : North Korea, Israel, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, the US and France.... others might do it with more talent so we are not aware of their exploits

That's a "but what about" argument that ignores the main issue. The fact is normal diplomatic constraints have been lessened with reduced US engagement and leadership in the world under Trump, freeing these tyrants to make attempts to kidnap and murder those that oppose them.

They would not have done this under previous US Presidents. Trump likes to think he talks tough but that's just hot air - the fact is the US is much weaker internationally under his Presidency.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Then why are you droning on about the President?

Droning? I believe that requires an MQ-9. I offered criticism of the President, just as I criticized certain policies of President Obama.

Everyone does, but that still doesn’t mean there’s a whole lot you can do, you can’t. So yes, we have to grin, nod and bear with it, at least the politicians will have to and they know it.

That's called giving up...

Kavanaugh has nothing to do with this and also, he’s an American on American soil, totally different scenario.

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I was mistaken reading all those posts you made about Kavanugh being denied due process...(as Khashoggi was)

I get your point, ok and then what? This has been going on for thousands of years, now all of a sudden action has to be taken because the Saudis screwed up ad did something in public that they normally do behind the scenes?

The Saudis, the Chinese, the Russians, even the Philippines - it's been increasing under Trump because he has diminished our standing in the world and made our country weaker...

That’s a true America is the moral leader of the world, the big difference is America is not the globalist leader as it shouldn’t be, it should be to Guyton to help, but we should take care of our country and our people first and foremost.

We have been a leader since the end of WW II, and the world looks to us for leadership. Since 2016, we are no longer leading, which has created a vacuum that dictators and tyrants are taking advantage of...

Actually, it’s been a big improvement all around overall 73 accomplishments (and counting) that can’t be beat. I for one am glad that this president is not interventionist, good on him.

The 73 so-called accomplishments are only viewed as such by approximately 42% of the US population, 52% see them as misguided and dangerous. Then there's the 4229 lies (as of 1 Aug) - with many more since then.

And Putin rejoices...

6 ( +7 / -1 )

ScroteToday 05:36 pm JST

"privately does a lot of condensation going on in a lot of finger-pointing in the lower temp is flaring. The Turks need to Saudis just as a much is we do"

This is an interesting collection of random words: would you care to elaborate?

It's looking a bit like Finnegan's Wake already. Some online discussion forums require posters to make an effort to write with correct grammar and spelling, maybe this one needs to as well.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Americans should feel insulted - Saudi Arabia thinks they're stupid enough to believe this explanation it took 3 weeks to come up with. An accidental death in a consulate is hard enough; yet why hide it if it's accidental? An autopsy could show if it's an accident; yet where's the body? They sure went above and beyond great lengths trying to cover up an accident

Saudi Arabia's integrity is shot right now - they've been denying this outright for 3 weeks and only fessed up when Turkey is about to release some recordings

Meantime, a tepid response by Trump compared to what happened with Pastor Brunson in Turkey (and Pastor Brunson is alive!) He immediately put stock into the Saudis' explanation, even after previously saying to give the Saudis the benefit of the doubt that they didn't kill Khashoggi - and thus they lied straight to his face yet he turns the other cheek. So now, why should anybody give the Saudis the benefit of the doubt anymore

Trump is just looking for any little snippet to believe Saudi Arabia instead of doing the moral proper. He's more concerned for the Saudi money. Money btw, there's no evidence that it's anywhere near the blown-up figure $450 Billion he pulled out of

“It’s showmanship in lot of ways. This $100-billion deal over many years is still much yet to be negotiated, and much of it may never happen,” said Jeff Abramson, a fellow at the nonpartisan Arms Control Assn.

The military sales figures are murky because it takes years to negotiate, approve and build weapons systems for sale to another country. So far, contracting experts and government officials estimate that the Trump administration has agreed to somewhere between about $15 billion to $22 billion in sales to Saudi Arabia, many of which were negotiated during the Obama and George W. Bush administrations.

The biggest project, a $100-billion investment fund backed by the Japanese telecom giant SoftBank, is based far from the United States, on the British island of Jersey. From merely a pledge by the crown prince, the Saudi contribution is supposed to be $45 billion — not the full $100 billion listed by the Saudis as its economic impact. The so-called Vision Fund is expected to benefit American companies and workers. Yet it also has operations in London and Tokyo and plans to invest in technology companies around the world, so there's no guarantee to the US.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

but you have to play this smart and the President is doing just that

As with Russia, Trump will first look at how it affects his own personal business interests. American interests & MAGA will come second. After that, golf & Fox.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@bass4funk

Trump sees and knows what’s at stake, liberals don’t because they’re so wrapped up in their safe space emotional meltdown.

We all see what's at stake too! That's problem. Meanwhile Mitch McConnell says he's going to gut social security and Medicare to help pay for those massive tax cuts for the wealthy, and Trump is making his billion dollar arms deal with the Saudi government, you know the same people that brought us Osama bin Laden and the highjackers from 9/11, just so he can keep his name on a golf course in their country.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

And we still are the leader,

No were not...

but we now make sure that the rest of the countries pull their full weight.

The rest of the world is laughing at us...

That vacuum was created when the previous administration decided to lead from behind and that’s why we see increased hostilities coming from Russia, China, Iran, NK and even Valenzuela.

Even the Bush II administration did a better job managing foreign relations than this White House...over a year and a half and we still don't have an Ambassador in Saudi Arabia...

The left can complain all they want, they can have fits all day,

Again, this is not a left/right issue...

the President will make the decision accordingly in regards to SA and with the advise of his Joint Chiefs of Staff and will take the appropriate action when it’s time to do so, we might not get to see all of it, but once these men are alone, I’m sure the scolding will ensue.

The Joint Chiefs? Are we going to wage war on the Saudis? This is a diplomatic issue for the State Dept to review and provide recommendations. Of course, it would help if we had an Ambassador...

Again, there’s nothing that the left or even the right can do about what happened, has nothing to do with caring, but you have to play this smart and the President is doing just that. We don’t have to deal with the Saudis, the WH does.

The President could lead, but as we've seen time and time again, he's either incapable of that or just doesn't want to. Work with our European allies and Japan (something new for this President) and craft a set of responses that get the Saudi's attention - that's leadership.

Or is the murder of a journalist something the President could care less about - I mean he has said that journalists are disgusting, crooked, dangerous, Un-American, and an enemy of the people...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/19/opinions/trump-rally-gianforte-attacks-on-press-khashoggi-freedman/index.html

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Yes, we definitely are, but not in the liberal bend over sense.

No, but the conservative bend over sense is just fine.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

If Saudi Arabia thinks they can simply toss some under the bus and call it a day, they don't know how this works. There is a body. It will likely b found, and when it is, methods will be understood.

So if Saudi Arabia is suddenly so cooperative, you'd think they'd volunteer where the stashed the corpse. They will have to, at some point, or it will be found - start digging around the garden at the consul's residence.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Simon Foston

I think that the reality of having to deal with a filthy regime like Saudi Arabia is a valid point to some extent. I’d just like to see more outrage at the idea of interrogating /butchering a journalist. The principle is important.

This principle should dwarf politics.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The irony that some Trump supporters here are now siding with Saudi Arabia now, the land of sharia law, beheading and dismembering, and Al-Qaeda and ISIS financiers.

inb4, "Saudi Arabia was always okay because they weren't on the list of our Muslim ban."

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Trump fails again. He is hopeless when it comes to foreign affairs. No background, no qualifications, no experience -- abject failure the only possible outcome. Add this one to the list.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

during that visit to Arizona Trump endorsed a Congressman who plead guilty to assaulting a Guardian reporter

3 ( +5 / -2 )

We have to accept and believe what the Saudi Government said, otherwise the Oil price will rocket into the sky. The Oil men are waiting for the opportunity to make profit on unfortunate accident. I believed the kidnapping attempt went wrong.

I don't think the Saudi intelligence officers had planned to kill Khashoggi inside the Saudi Istanbul Consulate in Turkey rather than they intended to take him to Saudi Arabia. If the Saudi Intelligence Officers have planned and intention to kill Jamal Khashoggi inside the Istanbul Consulate and then it will be foolish and stupid. They have planned to kidnap him instead of killing him inside Istanbul Consulate.

They have tried to kidnap him back to the Saudi Arabia, but Khashoggi fought back and he fell on the back and got a head injury. However, they did not take Khashoggi to Hospital and he had a brain hemorrhage from head injury. Later, the brain hemorrhage killed Khashoggi.

The Saudi Government must explain about what they have done with the Khashoggi body after he was dead and where they buried or disposed his body.

I hope he didn't suffer much. R.I.P Khashoggi

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Trump has room to make some moves without destroying the relationship. Saudi Arabia isn't going to mess with the oil supply because it would be economic suicide for them, and no, Saudi Arabia isn't going to stop helping with Iran since no one hates Iran more than Saudi Arabia.

Trump can talk about the important relationship, that's fine, and it's something that should be taken into account, but he doesn't need to go in front of the world and play dumb while peddling "rogue killer" nutjob conspiracy theories. He needs to stop talking to the world like he's talking to his base. That's why everyone laughed at him at the UN, and he still hasn't learned anything.

So hit them with some hard sanctions, something that has teeth, but not something that would sever the relationship. There's a line between protecting a relationship and giving the other side a green light to start murdering with impunity.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Bearded, Keffiyeh-Clad Jared Kushner Avoids Conflict Of Interest By Joining Saudi Royal Family

https://politics.theonion.com/bearded-keffiyeh-clad-jared-kushner-avoids-conflict-of-1829867930

LOL

1 ( +2 / -1 )

SuperLib - Bearded, Keffiyeh-Clad Jared Kushner Avoids Conflict Of Interest By Joining Saudi Royal Family

LOL

You're quoting an article from The Onion? Are you aware that The Onion is a satirical website which doesn't publish the truth, or facts?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Chop ChopToday 03:31 am JST

We have to accept and believe what the Saudi Government said, otherwise the Oil price will rocket into the sky.

They're rich and powerful so they can do whatever they want. Great.

They have tried to kidnap him back to the Saudi Arabia, but Khashoggi fought back and he fell on the back and got a head injury. However, they did not take Khashoggi to Hospital and he had a brain hemorrhage from head injury. Later, the brain hemorrhage killed Khashoggi.

Doesn't really explain what they needed a bone saw or a forensics expert for or the graphic accounts of torture and dismemberment, does it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well that settlers it - I’m really not going to Saudi Arabia.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

so if they have to use oil as a tool to make sure that doesn’t happen, they will do so.

WRONG!!!

The world needs Saudi oil less and less. They are punishing themselves (proof above)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

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