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Separatists tighten grip on east Ukraine; EU agrees on more sanctions against Moscow

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Landed at 15:30 at Heathrow, Ukraine is headline news, it's shrill finger pointing with added bells and whistles.

Russian army lieutenant colonel issues orders to Ukrainian policemen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10766356/Russian-army-lieutenant-colonel-issues-orders-to-Ukrainian-policemen.html

Ukraine crisis: EU and US mull further sanctions on Russia..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27028116

There are regular Russian Federation contributors on JT, honest open debate, where is this heading?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The hand of Moscow stuff is much like the shrill John Birch rhetoric that defined anything the Birchers did not like as Communist inspired, be it the Civil Rights Movement or fluoridation. There is no proof right now that Moscow is in any way orchestrating these protests. What no one in the West's mainstream wants to admit is that these protests are popular revolts. Look at the demonstrators: people range from kids to grannies. People revolt not because someone tells them to but because they have grievances. If the latter day Birchites, including the US government and the media, would admit these are popular protests we could get around to asking the protesters what their issues are. In doing that it is very possible to initiate conflict resolution and create a state of affairs where everyone could walk away satisfied.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

My biggest question is why are these pro-Russian "protests" involving a more militant aspect of taking over key government buildings instead of plain old riots in the streets? Big difference imho and stinks to high heaven.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The protests are against the EUS-planted puppets in Kiev.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The separatists' grip on eastern Ukraine is about to loosen.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why exactly is the west doing the equivalent of throwing its toys out of the pram? if the people want it then why object to it, when there is an openly fascist party in power, I can fully understand them wanting to break away.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I'm not banned lol.

This is heading to one direction: insane bloodshed and another show to watch for US citizens. As long as people are entertained, buying more food and watching more lies.. I mean news, it's okay. And people are killing each other here. Families are torn apart by politics, brother goes against brother, son against father.. Terrifying. But, it's not Russia's fault. It all started with Euromaidan. I hope you will acknowledge that.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Popular, spontaneous protests... my @ss.

It's pretty much entirely Russia's fault. There is no systematic or widespread abuse of Russian ethnic minority. Russia has no business whatsoever telling Ukraine what to do. The fact that thousands of Russian troops are camped out on Ukraine's border (this isn't in doubt, even Moscow says they are there "training") puts the lie to any claim that Russia wants anything but to keep the situation under pressure.

Russia hopes to gain by intimidation so it doesn't have to bother to take by force.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It's pretty much entirely The EU and the US's fault. To say the opposite, gcbel, just shows how little you understand whats going on behind the CNN 10 second news clips.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"This is heading to one direction: insane bloodshed and another show to watch for US citizens."

Are you sure Obama won't send U.S. troops to Ukraine?

"It's pretty much entirely The EU and the US's fault."

Yes, the Russians are the victims here.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Media (UK) quote senior cabinet sources accusing President Putin of sending covertly military advisors, professional agitators, political activists.

Both the BBC and The Daily Telegraph have their critics but can be relied upon to present a clear balanced view, more often than not producing creditable evidence to back up there story.

Nato in all its former glory is more a anti-terrorist organization, the organizations budget reflects that stance. To cut a long story short EU governments don't have the appetite for destruction, the shock" 'n' awe" ,upped 'n' went" after its first official full TV release during the gulf war.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-03-23/putin-has-exposed-nato-s-weakness

The BBC and Telegraph main diet is politicians hot or cold, raw or partly cooked, is an irrelevance, both when reporting news coverage give little quarter. So when they report 'Russian army lieutenant colonel issues orders to Ukrainian policemen', that can it be relied upon that a 'Army lieutenant colonel of Russian extraction is issuing orders to policemen'.

'The West' from a European perceptive is a modern political economic mixture of cultures, there is just no aggressor in sight. David Cameron holds nothing more than strong rhetoric backed up with a feather duster. So where is Presidents Putins political western phantoms out to destroy the Russian people and their culture? The threat just doesn't exist. Holy Joseph, Germany wants to talk Russia into various stages of boredom.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

To say the opposite, gcbel, just shows how little you understand whats going on behind the CNN 10 second news clips.

Right back at you. The fact that you'd choose an ad hominem instead of addressing the facts, f.i., Russian troops on the border, or that every other action or statement by Moscow is intended to raise the pressure and escalate the situation - shows you've got nothing.

Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about.

Russia, go home.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

President Putin has rejected any involvement in separatist unrest in Ukraine, he does add the accusations rest on speculations that are based on imprecise information. which could be defined as his office has no direct involvement but understands the army adoption of these tactics. The Russian Foreign Minister, Lavrov is quoted as referring to “self-defense” patriots, but refused to confirm or define their nationality.

Ukraine transitional government are not asking for assistance from Nato, the sanctions in place are directed at individuals, there movement and ability to do business. Ukraine urgently needs financial assistance, the longer this takes the more likely Ukraine will fail to meet payment to Gazprom.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Clearly, history is not important. Because if it was, then many of the posters would know that when Gorbachev agreed to pull out of East Germany, one understanding was that NATO would not expand East.

On Feb. 10, 1990, between 4 and 6:30 p.m., Genscher spoke with Shevardnadze. According to the German record of the conversation, which was only recently declassified, Genscher said: "We are aware that NATO membership for a unified Germany raises complicated questions. For us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east."

To that end, the German foreign minister promised, in his speech in Tutzing, that there would not be "an expansion of NATO territory to the east, in other words, closer to the borders of the Soviet Union." East Germany was not to be brought into the military structures of NATO, and the door into the alliance was to remain closed to the countries of Eastern Europe.

Take a look at any NATO map today and you will see how this agreement has been broken, including Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.

Now this is important, so please read carefully. The US/CIA/State Department have given Ukraine over 5 billion dollars over the last 10 years trying foment anti-Russian sentiment and just this last March, yes, last month, the CIA were definitely involved in the Ukrainian coup that ousted PM Yanukovych because he signed an agreement with Russia instead of the EU last November. Of course he was replaced with a pro EU PM.

As a JT poster, it doesn't really matter to you. But put yourself in Putin's shoes (no pun intended), or, think like a leader of a nation. How long are you going to sit there and watch the US/EU/NATO slowly expand closer and closer to your borders? Then this Ukraine coup occurred. I'm not saying Putin is a hero or even a nice guy, I'm just talking geopolitics here. All Putin wants to do is sell oil and gas. The US on the other hand wants to check any and all nations from challenging it's hegemony.

Putin's actions are logical considering what the EU, the US and NATO are doing. Besides, the eastern half of Ukraine is loyal to Russia and protect them he will.

So, IMO, the US bears responsibility in this mess and Obama is looking like a fool again.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

one understanding was that NATO would not expand East.

There is no treaty, no agreement, no written guarantee where this was stipulated to. And none should have been, no reason to bind sovereign states from entering into a common defense agreement with other democratic, sovereign states. Moscow's behavior has proven them right.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html

There is however this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances which Moscow most definitely violated.

Putin's actions

By that you mean fanning the flames? Logical from his perspective and with regard to his goals, sure. The former nekulturni KGBer Putin is still the main instigator.

Russia out of Ukraine.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Around the period of the cold war the US troops combat ready stationed in Europe stood at around 400,000, today there are 67,000. The combined Air Force has just 130 Jets fighters, in comparison to 850 in the final days of the Cold War. However much cash the US/CIA/State Department has been fluttering around in the Ukraine it has not been spent very wisely because it clearly has not had its desired effect.

The Ukraine governments needs full Russian support if the entire country does not financially completely collapse. The EU has not made any attempt to announce further sanctions. Germany has made it intentions clear that it wants a diplomatic route. What could Nato possibly offer the Ukraine that they would want?

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania have close diplomatic ties to Russia, there whole energy security is intricately dependent on Russian trade and is generously subsidized, why would any of these countries want to change? At this moment in time EU membership has economically suited all three, that situation could well change, as EU budgets at present are unsustainable.

UK for one has questioned further political union, and even questions membership completely. Nato as an organization is going through rapid change. UK has had to cut defense spending for consecutive years.

How will undermining Russia, a country that Europe has become economically dependent on.make logical sense?

PM Yanukovych has little choice, who would not take the generous offer the Russian government had on the table?. What PM Yanukovych failed to mention was the true financial state the in country was in, with hindsight had he done so perhaps he would still be in office now.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

There is no treaty

No treaty, agree. No written guarantee, agree. But there was an agreement, a sort of gentleman's agreement/handshake.

You seem to have forgotten to address the CIA Kiev coup. You know, the one that put Neo-Nazi's in some positions of power and influence.

Since the coup was the trigger, or spark plug so to speak, and all of Putin's actions being after the fact, all of your links and explanations are meaningless.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

But there was an agreement, a sort of gentleman's agreement/handshake.

But, no, there wasn't. Sue gorbie for not getting it in writing. Now, let's get back to the Budapest memorandum.

You seem to have forgotten to address the CIA Kiev coup.

The CIA part is not worth a comment because you've produced nothing to back it up. Guess that's the party (RT) line though. Fact is the Kiev "coup" is a Ukrainian internal matter. It's none of Moscow's business. And it certainly didn't and doesn't warrant Russia's actions in Crimea or now. If you had issues there were other them.

Since the coup was the trigger, or spark plug so to speak, and all of Putin's actions being after the fact, all of your links and explanations are meaningless.

Really? Is that the best justification you can muster? That's very weak.

Putin's actions.,, like lying about the situation in east Ukraine, instigating the unrest there, putting troops on the border and threatening? Oh, please.

Stay out of Ukraine, stay out of the Baltics, Moldova, Finland... Get it through your heads that they don't belong to you anymore. Forget dreams of a new Russian empire, forget the so-called humiliation by the west after the collapse of the Soviet Union, get into the 21st century, get rich and we'll all get along.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The CIA part is not worth a comment

Really.

Back it up? Are you ten years old? There's really no excuse for you not to know how the US was involved in the coup by now. I'm not going your personal Geopolitics teacher. If you're just going to wave this off as immaterial then there's no point in continuing this conversation.

You're grasp of the Ukraine situation is obviously clouded by your nationalism or your immaturity.

P.S. I don't follow RT news.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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