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Sharpton: Detroit girl's death is 'breaking point'

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-People need to learn how to knock on the door or ring the doorbell first.

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The little girl's death was tragic and I hope if the police have done some wrong in it that they are prosecuted. But the real tragedy is not with the poice but with the situation the girl and her family was in.

They were looking for a murder supsect, who was staying with the girl and her family. My question to the family, why are you allowing someone who is heavily involved with crimes to live in your house? I come from a background though not the same but has some of the same elements. I know when people are hiding because of something they have done illegally. I finally had to put my food down on some of my family members to let them know they can't bring that stuff around my family's house, a lot more lives are at stake than just theirs.

A camera crew working on the A&E cable television channel’s reality series “The First 48” accompanied police on the raid.

That alone tells you that the person they were looking for was a "bad character" since I have seen this show, and they really explore cases that they have great leads on and the person has done something terribly bad (in order to make higher ratings).

So Rev. Sharpton, don't just blame the police, I think you really need to go after the communty at large and let them know the killing of individuals and the crime is your responsibility too, and for it to stop they need to start cooperating with law enforcement.

If the police had not accidentally killed this girl, I can tell you that without a doubt, the family or "buddies" of the person that was killed would have done something to the family or house where this event happened in order to get back at the person who had done the killing.

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So Rev. Sharpton, don't just blame the police, I think you really need to go after the communty at large and let them know the killing of individuals and the crime is your responsibility too,

Alphaape, you really ought to give reading a chance. At least the first two paragraphs. (eye roll).

But the real tragedy is not with the poice but with the situation the girl and her family was in.

The real tragedy is that a 7 year old girl has been shot to death.

My question to the family, why are you allowing someone who is heavily involved with crimes to live in your house?

My question to you is: on what grounds do you ask the question? I still am not sure about details related to this point, but I do know that this was a split level house divided into apartments, and the man was found in THE OTHER apartment.

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Detroit's breaking point has been about 40 years long and running. The city is usually in the top 3 for murders nationwide. There is roughly a 40% literacy and graduation rate. 50% jobless rate. It is a Third World city by its own design through misrule, corruption and lawlessness (helped by constant legal assaults on the police). This girl's life is just one in a sea of tragedy. There will be many more. Want to stop it? Impose martial law. Otherwise, no crocodile tears over the next dead girl, please.

On the bright side, the city seems to have a competent, moral mayor and city council for the first time since the 1960's. They have a big hole to dig their way out of. Problem be, people like Sharpton live and thrive in that hole. So, no exit.

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MistWizrd, I did read the article and I had full comprehensioni. I realize what Sharpton has said, but I speak as a person who has grown up with family members in similar sitations and knowing how Sharpton works. He put the police at blame, and in this case they may be, but he only made a sligth rebuke to the community to address the real reasons why crime is so rampant. In the days to follow, I am sure that he along with the high powered lawyer that has "volunteered" himself to represent the girl's father will start to make demands to the Detroit police.

My question to you is: on what grounds do you ask the question? I still am not sure about details related to this point, but I do know that this was a split level house divided into apartments, and the man was found in THE OTHER apartment.

I make those statements based on reading other articles from other places that I have read on this case. The person they were looking for was related to the girl's father. Since you seem to point out that I can't read, i would like to direct you to my comments earlier posted:

I come from a background though not the same but has some of the same elements. I know when people are hiding because of something they have done illegally. I finally had to put my food down on some of my family members to let them know they can't bring that stuff around my family's house, a lot more lives are at stake than just theirs.

Soor for th emisspelling in this post, but knowing what I know of how these things work, you can pretty much say that in about 90% of these cases, the family knew what was going on with the person who was being wanted.

Yes it is a realy ragedy for the little girl to die. But if Sharpton was so concerned, why just show up for this case because it has nationally press. Detroit and other places like it have had high crime raes, and we can probably do a sarch to find out that on the day this girl died, there were probably more tragic cases like this one. But since it was a police mistake, and the press needed a lead off story this one got the most attention.

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Gee, maybe Grandma shouldn't have tried to fight a police officer with a gun in his hand. Oh, but then Sharpton couldn't start another street riot with that. Never mind.

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Gee, maybe Grandma shouldn't have tried to fight a police officer with a gun in his hand.

The video shows that the police fired the shot from outside the house.

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The congregation stood and applauded Sharpton, the final speaker at a nearly two-hour service that included stirring gospel music and remarks from clergy.

I am not trying to blame the victims in this case, but having grown up in areas similar, I can say that at least 80% of the persons at this funeral, the ones who are not regular church goers to clarify, know who is doing the "bad stuff" in the area, but yet they will not be the ones who come forward to report crimes. But let the police make a mistake, all of a sudden they beomce willing to cooperate.

I realize that a lot of other factors lead to the demise of Detroit and the industries there, but people like Sharpton and Jackson are there only to exploit these people more. I am all for "community development" but these "huskters" are only there when the lights and cameras are on.

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They were looking for a murder supsect, who was staying with the girl and her family. My question to the family, why are you allowing someone who is heavily involved with crimes to live in your house?

Uncle Ruckus couldn't have put it any better.

The suspect, Chauncey Owens, lived in the upper flat with a completely separate entrance. The police attacked the lower flat -- the wrong apartment. There is no evidence that Owens was "heavily involved with crimes," and certainly no evidence that the family living downstairs had any knowledge that Owens was a suspect in a murder case.

The person they were looking for was related to the girl's father.

Completely false. There was no direct relationship between the girl's father and Owens.

but knowing what I know of how these things work, you can pretty much say that in about 90% of these cases, the family knew what was going on

Another quote worthy of Ruckus.

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Lots of typical "blaming the victim" going on here. Had this happened in the suburbs, our right-wing members would be howling about police overstepping their bounds, but since this case involved poor, inner-city blacks, it MUST be their own fault, right?

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I know exactly what you're talking about Alp, lived there myself and saw how ridiculous when parents/family members will protect someone guilty of commiting a crime (in this case murder) and forgetting the fact that their family member killed someone else's child too. Then have the gall to cry about it when things go wrong completely forgetting they helped increase the situation beyond what it had to be in the first place.

The old, "Blood is thicker than water". In certain cases like these, there are usually guilty parties on both sides. And people still wonder why situations like these still happen.

Should any of my children commit such a crime, they will not be able to find refuge from me. After 18, by US law they are responsible for their own actions. If they are innocent I'd be more than happy to support them, but if they're guilty then I will not lift a finger.

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Sharpton's sermonizing is nothing but hot air. The sad fact is, Americans have become so desensitised to violent crime that they are totally blind to the factors contributing to it, so the vicious circle keeps on getting bigger and bigger. A US Marine in Afghanistan is probably safer than an outgunned cop in inner cities like Detroit. And Marines are far less likely to be sued for collateral damage.

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Detroit girl's death is 'breaking point'

The breaking point has come and gone, I haven’t been able to park on the street in years, and I stopped carrying cash on me in the mid 90's. Detroit is a hole and has been for a long time. Every time they find out that they're a few million dollars over budget they start cutting the two things the city needs the most, education and police. The crime spreads like a virus, now even Warren is getting slowly worse. I just hope that the plan to bulldoze a quarter of that God-forsaken dump goes through, so we can get some more productive enterprises in.

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yabits, If you refer to me as "Uncle Rukus" you are somewhat mistaken. I was wrong on one part, I admit the fact that they were related. But I still stand by my statements on the 90% comment. Have you been involved in these types of situations. Plenty of my friends who aer involved with both aspects of law enforcement (police and lawyers) will tell you that in the majority of the cases, a murdered person knows who killed them, and most important, the people who live near them.

The police attacked the lower flat -- the wrong apartment. There is no evidence that Owens was "heavily involved with crimes

yabits, if you still want to call me Uncle Rukus, make sure you undersand this:

The officers had a search warrant and were looking for a 34-year-old man suspected in the shooting death of 17-year-old Jarean Blake.

Blake, a student at Southeastern High School, was gunned down Friday by a store in front of his girlfriend. Blake stumbled across the street, collapsed and died, police said.

I am sure the family of the young man that was killed by the suspect would probably agree with my statements. Also if Owens is not involved heavily in crimes, why is a 34 year old man hanging out by a high shcool waiting to "bust a cap" in a teenager.

Just because you know how to use a name like "unlce Rukus" make sure you understand when to use it in the proper context.

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Alphaape, nice try at stealth back-pedaling. Most of Sharpton's message was leveled at the community in general. He did exactly what you wanted. Why not just admit you misjudged the man this time and move on? Is it so hard to say "thank you"?

The officers had a search warrant and were looking for a 34-year-old man suspected in the shooting death of 17-year-old Jarean Blake.

You cannot read a search warrant when you have been hit with a flash bang! It is ridiculous, in the extreme, to demand that innocent unrelated people suffer sudden flash grenades in the interest of catching a neighbor! Same goes for stun guns, rubber bullets and tear gas! You can't have the police going around waylaying people and then saying "Oops! Wrong house!" You know why? Cause kids get killed that way!

That said, I agree with Sharpton that the people of the neighborhood set the stage for this to happen. They are not taking proper responsibility for their neighborhood. Apparently they expect the police to do their work for them, and the police, who have no magic powers to do a communities job for them, tried flash-bangs trying to work impossible wonders. When a neighborhood is bad, its not the fault of the police. Its the fault of the people who live there.

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MistWizard, not trying to back-pedal on Sharpton's remarks. I agree that what he said needed to be said. I don't have a problem. But just google up a list of recent Sharpton appearances. See how many times he has gone to Detroit and preached this message. Yet you will find him down in AZ trying to lead a boycott against laws they have enacted.

You cannot read a search warrant when you have been hit with a flash bang! It is ridiculous, in the extreme, to demand that innocent unrelated people suffer sudden flash grenades in the interest of catching a neighbor! Same goes for stun guns, rubber bullets and tear gas! You can't have the police going around waylaying people and then saying "Oops! Wrong house!" You know why? Cause kids get killed that way!

But when you look at the crime the suspect was accused of, gunning down a teenager in daylight in front of witnesses, you probably wouldn't serve a search warrant without some backup. I would like to know what the suspects past crimes were. If the police knew who they were looking for, then they probably had an idea of the amount of force they needed to take him in. Lost in all of this, we will see that the suspect has had a long and sorid history of crimes and possibley with one or two murders charged to him.

That is what is the real tragedy here. Why isn't the high powered defense attorney and Sharptong going full out for the family of the 17 year old gunned down by the suspect? That is just as horrible. Yet, public servants trying to do their job, and making a mistake is better news copy.

That said, I agree with Sharpton that the people of the neighborhood set the stage for this to happen. They are not taking proper responsibility for their neighborhood. Apparently they expect the police to do their work for them, and the police, who have no magic powers to do a communities job for them, tried flash-bangs trying to work impossible wonders. When a neighborhood is bad, its not the fault of the police. Its the fault of the people who live there.

That is what I was trying to say. But I just think Sharpton has a lot to do in his base area of New York, than jet setting around the USA trying to get in front of the cameras.

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Alphaape said: That is what I was trying to say.

That is what Sharpton said before you said he didn't say it. You are stealth back-pedaling by acting like it never happened. His home base etc are separate points and I think I agree with you on those. But most of what he did in this speech was blame the community. You got that wrong in your first post and your lack of humilty for your error is very impressive...in a negative way.

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yabits:

The video shows that the police fired the shot from outside the house.

Did I miss the link for the video?

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Did I miss the link for the video?

The video is real -- filmed by a professional television crew that trained its cameras on the raid. The claim has been publicly made by several people who have seen it that it shows the shot being fired outside the house.

The video is far more real than your phony allegation that the Grandma tried to "fight the police." She was taken down to Detroit police HQ in handcuffs and tested for drugs as well as traces of gunpowder -- which would have been present had she been in close proximity of a firearm discharging. She was released as soon as the tests came back -- with no charges filed. That would likely not have been the case if gunpowder evidence showed she resisted the police to the point where it caused the death of another person.

The facts will bear out what the video evidence -- and your false accusation of an innocent person will not be forgotten.

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MistWizard I said:

So Rev. Sharpton, don't just blame the police, I think you really need to go after the communty at large and let them know the killing of individuals and the crime is your responsibility too, and for it to stop they need to start cooperating with law enforcement.

So your:

That is what Sharpton said before you said he didn't say it. You are stealth back-pedaling by acting like it never happened. His home base etc are separate points and I think I agree with you on those. But most of what he did in this speech was blame the community. You got that wrong in your first post and your lack of humilty for your error is very impressive...in a negative way.

Is a bit out of place. Maybe you should understand that I was not trying to backpedal in my posts, but just knowing how Sharpton works, trying to get my comments in on how he really needs to focus on the community there, and not just try to play on the mistrust the community has with the police. In the future, if this case gets further hye he will be there blaming the police, just like he did when the police shot the black man in Oakland who had just gunned down the 4 police officers, and the various other cases he seems to be on the opposite side from.

And, since you are pointing out what you thing are that I am stealth-backpedaling, answer my question I posed. If the police know the suspect has gunned down a teenager in front of witnesses by a high school, wouldn't you say that they wre pretty justified with maybe going with a little force since obviously the suspect is armed and dangerous. Or is that just asking the wrong question and not vctimizing someone for you.

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Alphaape writes:

The officers had a search warrant and were looking for a 34-year-old man suspected in the shooting death of 17-year-old Jarean Blake.

The justification that the police had in picking up the murder suspect does not justify their use of the tactics and their actions in attacking the wrong apartment, burning Aiyana Jones with a flash grenade before shooting her dead and falsely claiming that the gunshot was due to an action by the grandmother.

The evidence that the father of Aiyana is a pretty scummy person who hung around with the suspect and may have even accompanied him to the place where Jerean Blake was murdered in no way absolves the police.

Society can't always control or predict the actions of lowlifes like the person who murdered Blake. However, a society had better be able to control and predict the actions of its police.

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yabits:

The video is real -- filmed by a professional television crew that trained its cameras on the raid. The claim has been publicly made by several people who have seen it that it shows the shot being fired outside the house.

The video is far more real than your phony allegation that the Grandma tried to "fight the police." She was taken down to Detroit police HQ in handcuffs and tested for drugs as well as traces of gunpowder -- which would have been present had she been in close proximity of a firearm discharging. She was released as soon as the tests came back -- with no charges filed. That would likely not have been the case if gunpowder evidence showed she resisted the police to the point where it caused the death of another person.

The facts will bear out what the video evidence -- and your false accusation of an innocent person will not be forgotten.

Fine, fine. But where is the link to the video? Can I see it for myself?

Why would police shoot blindly into a house from the outside? On camera? That makes no sense.

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answer my question I posed. If the police know the suspect has gunned down a teenager in front of witnesses by a high school, wouldn't you say that they wre pretty justified with maybe going with a little force since obviously the suspect is armed and dangerous

Gee, more "Uncle Ruckus" logic.

The police can't "know" that the suspect they are looking for is the actual person who did the shooting. That would make them the judge and jury of any situation they didn't personally witness.

If you read some accounts of this fiasco, the police had a warrant for ONE address -- the upper flat where the suspect lived and was eventually apprehended. After attacking the lower flat and realizing their mistake, the police quickly had their search warrant amended to include both lower and upper flats.

You don't appear to understand that these Detroit upper/lower duplexes are separate dwellings -- with separate entrances. If the police are seeking someone who lives in an upper flat, they don't have much justification launching all their force against the lower one, especially with the evidence that children may be present.

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Why would police shoot blindly into a house from the outside? On camera? That makes no sense.

I can understand how it would make no sense to someone who holds a fantasy view of life where the police are always pure and correct and members of the underclass always deserve whatever treatment comes their way.

Does it make sense that the policeman who fired from the porch is also under a federal investigation for killing a family's dogs in front of the children and pointing his weapon at an infant, in a previous matter?

Still want to keep attacking the grandmother?

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You don't appear to understand that these Detroit upper/lower duplexes are separate dwellings -- with separate entrances. If the police are seeking someone who lives in an upper flat, they don't have much justification launching all their force against the lower one, especially with the evidence that children may be present.

Most of the time they get warrants to search the whole building especially in cases where the land lords records of tenants are either ambiguous or nonexistent. They do it all the time when they sweep the projects for drug dealers.

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Most of the time they get warrants to search the whole building especially in cases where the land lords records of tenants are either ambiguous or nonexistent

Buildings of this type have two addresses. A "whole building" search requires that the police specify both addresses in their warrant. According to initial reports, the warrant was written for one address and had to be amended to include the other one after the tragedy occurred.

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yabits:

I can understand how it would make no sense to someone who holds a fantasy view of life where the police are always pure and correct and members of the underclass always deserve whatever treatment comes their way.

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong about me or my views of the police and the poor.

Does it make sense that the policeman who fired from the porch is also under a federal investigation for killing a family's dogs in front of the children and pointing his weapon at an infant, in a previous matter?

Sounds like a cop I heard about in the Birmingham, Alabama area a few years ago.

Still want to keep attacking the grandmother?

Again, where can I see the video?

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There is no question of the existence of the video. There is no question that the people will eventually be presented to the public. There is no question that the people who have already seen the video have reported that it shows at least one police firing his weapon into the house from outside of it -- and not as a result of any altercation with the grandmother.

The father's story is that he heard the gunshot happen within a second or two after the flash-grenade (too soon for any altercation to have occurred and corroborating the video evidence). The grandmother's story is that by the time the police reached her in the house, her granddaughter was already lying in a pool of blood.

Where is the evidence to back up your assertion that the grandmother "fought with" the police? The statement that "I couldn't be more wrong about your views" of the police and the poor enough to set your trousers ablaze.

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There is no question that the people will eventually be presented to the public.

Should read: There is no question that the video well eventually be presented to the public.

I can understand why it would be supressed now, especially since catching the police in an obvious fabricated story might be enough to enrage the entire community.

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Alphaape, you even quoted yourself accusing Sharpton of blaming only the police when he should blame the community. I give up.

wouldn't you say that they wre pretty justified with maybe going with a little force since obviously the suspect is armed and dangerous.

No. It is not obvious that anyone was armed and dangerous. They had not even ascertained that he was home, let alone armed and dangerous. Further the police knew there were children and other innocents there. In that case, and I think its pretty OBVIOUS, one should attempt to get the subject as peacefully as possible. Hint: That means not rushing the house with a flash grenade.

My suggestion would be to surround the house and quickly and quietly and use the bull horn to order everyone out of both apartments in the house. I know, its so fricken cliche, but flash grenades are NOT completely harmless. Just like the fire caused by gas grenades in the Waco siege, you don't just go shooting the things off unless you are damned sure, and obviously, these guys were not sure of anything.

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I also have my doubts about the video as I have not seen it yet. But if the lawyer is lying he would have to be insane or paid by police. Such a lie would throw the whole case right down the drain. Think about it.

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yabits:

Should read: There is no question that the video well eventually be presented to the public.

Ah. So you haven't seen it.

I can understand why it would be supressed now, especially since catching the police in an obvious fabricated story might be enough to enrage the entire community.

That's one possibility, yes.

So neither of us were there, and neither of us have seen the video. You're more dedicated to your position than I am to mine, but you're basing your opinion completely on secondhand evidence. Hearsay, as it's known in American courts. Let's wait until we both see the video, okay?

Where is the evidence to back up your assertion that the grandmother "fought with" the police?

Still haven't seen your evidence that she didn't. Like you said, the video will likely be released at some point.

The statement that "I couldn't be more wrong about your views" of the police and the poor enough to set your trousers ablaze.

Wow. There's so much you don't know about me, but that doesn't keep you from having very firm and extreme opinions about me. I still remember when you refused to believe how little I was paying for a good health insurance plan. It started with you confusing my deductible for my amount of coverage and it went from there. And no matter how many times I corrected you, you refused to believe me. Instead, you insisted on believing the hype and fear-mongering about America's health insurance industry, propaganda that was coming from the very people with an agenda to destroy it.

I'm sensing a pattern with you. ;)

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My suggestion would be to surround the house and quickly and quietly and use the bull horn to order everyone out of both apartments in the house

MIstWizard, obviously you are not in law enforcement, so you would surround the house quietly and then announce that you are there, giving a possibly armed perp the opportuniy to decide to go along with the "rule of law" or to just say screw it and go out blazing, firing back at the police and possibly innoncents getting hurt in the crossfire (causing another huge controversy about a possible innoncent getting shot that way).

Bullets fly outside of any perimiters police may set up. If in going after an armed perp, police need to move in quietly and quickly to startle and keep them off balance before they have a chance to react.

No. It is not obvious that anyone was armed and dangerous. They had not even ascertained that he was home, let alone armed and dangerous.

I could see if this was the case for a regular purse snatcher, but the suspect was wanted for gunning down a teenager in braod daylight in front of witnesses. You mean to say that you will want to go apprehend that person by letting him know that you are there and yelling "stop in the name of the law?"

Just do a search on how many routine traffic stops have turned deadly for the police, and then tell me that if you had to go in day after day looking for suspected killers you wouldn't use a bit of force.

Alphaape, you even quoted yourself accusing Sharpton of blaming only the police when he should blame the community. I give up.

I keep telling you I understand what Sharpton said, but still I disagree with him just running all of the time in front of cameras and saying this when it makes a great media opportunity for him. If you know how Sharpton operates, he is all flash and little substance after the cameras have gone.

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You're more dedicated to your position than I am to mine, but you're basing your opinion completely on secondhand evidence.

Whoa... The people who have seen the video and have publicly reported what it shows are on record, and have to make their case from it. They are practically begging the Detroit Police to stop protecting one of their own and come clean with the truth.

I seriously doubt they would jeopardize their case and their reputations like this. Not on this issue.

Then there's the father's account of what he heard, as well as the grandmother's account. Combine all of that, and you'd have to love the police a whole lot (and discount the words of poor folks) to put your faith in the police side of it to the extent that you'd claim the grandmother attacked the police, as you did up above.

Not even the police were claiming that -- just some sort of ambiguous physical "bumping."

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The people who have seen the video and have publicly reported what it shows are on record, and have to make their case from it.

Well, I hope the video is of better quality than the Zapruder film.

I seriously doubt they would jeopardize their case and their reputations like this. Not on this issue.

Me too. Except for Sharpton, who is famous for the Tawana Brawley fraud and the Crown Heights riot. Did you have the same opinion of the police Brawley accused as you do these police?

Then there's the father's account of what he heard, as well as the grandmother's account.

Are these the same people who were suspected of harboring Chauncey "C-Note" Owens?

Are these the same people who had two stolen vehicles in their backyard?

...and you'd have to love the police a whole lot (and discount the words of poor folks) to put your faith in the police side of it to the extent that you'd claim the grandmother attacked the police, as you did up above.

My faith? That's a little strong there. I did not make the claim, all I did was comment on the police department's claim. My "faith" isn't involved in this matter at all.

I've met a lot of police officers and detectives over the years. There are some I respect, and some that I thought were overgrown playground bullies. One of the latter was a Metro Nashville cop who finally provoked a black suspect too far one night and got himself shot to death. Then there was that Birmingham-area (I think it was Homewood) cop I mentioned before. In a state packed with crooked cops and commissioners, he stood out for also being a trigger-happy adrenaline junkie. So do I love the police? No. I respect some, and don't respect others. Are you that fair with the police?

Not even the police were claiming that -- just some sort of ambiguous physical "bumping."

Re-read it. "Jostled by" Bumping can be accidental. Jostling is intentional. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a reason to say "jostled or bumped". In a May 18th AP story, the wording is "struggled with". You see, this JT article isn't the only story I've read about this event. You?

So until I see the video, I'm not fully buying either side. Unlike you.

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Other thoughts:

One shot was fired. If the cop intended to open fire on the house from the outside, why just one shot? The most likely explanation is that he fired the gun accidentally. If he was still outside the house, it could have been nerves. If it was inside the house, it could because he was "jostled" by the girl's grandmother, or accidentally bumped into her. Right now, none of us genuinely know. All we can legitimately surmise at this point is that: 1. The cop did not manage his gun properly, and 2. The girl is dead.

If it was nerves, then he has no business being a cop.

I still wonder why - if this cop fired from outside - the police are covering for him if he has a record as a bad cop and/or there is video proving them wrong. The police department doesn't have the authority to suppress the video. If nothing else, a judge or grand jury is bound to see it sooner or later. I'm not suggesting it proves the innocence of the police, it's just illogical. And being illogical never stopped anybody. I remember a certain president fervently denied sexual relations with an intern until her DNA-stained blue dress came to light.

There's just not enough known about this to fully blame either side yet, as yabits is doing. Speaking of yabits, earlier he said:

The evidence that the father of Aiyana is a pretty scummy person who hung around with the suspect and may have even accompanied him to the place where Jerean Blake was murdered in no way absolves the police.

No, but it does tarnish his credibility quite a bit.

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There's just not enough known about this to fully blame either side yet, as yabits is doing.

You mean not enough known to say this -- quoting WhiteHawk: "Gee, maybe Grandma shouldn't have tried to fight a police officer with a gun in his hand."

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Sorry, yabits, I'm just not as invested in this as you are.

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