world

Gunman opens fire in Texas high school, killing 10 people

151 Comments
By Juan Lozano

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2018 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

©2018 GPlusMedia Inc.


151 Comments
Login to comment

And here come the Liberal nut jobs claiming all guns should be banned in 5..4..3....

-48 ( +13 / -61 )

The deaths were all but certain to re-ignite the national debate over gun regulations,

but given the wealth of the gun industry and its ability to buy off politicians at all levels, don't hold your breath expecting much to change.

RIP to the innocents whose lives were taken, heal quickly those shot, condolences to the victim's family and friends, thank you to law enforcement and emergency service personnel for all you did in this instance and all you do each and every day.

My sympathies are also with the taxpayers who have to foot the costs of gun related violence. It's a sad indictment of the US that gun owners, a minority of the country, have such power.

24 ( +29 / -5 )

@belrick And here come the Liberal nut jobs claiming all guns should be banned in 5..4..3....

@belrick Is your point to show how little regard you have for innocent lives being taken so you can keep shooting your guns?

33 ( +40 / -7 )

Guns do not make us safe. They endanger everyone of us. All gun violence is caused by gun owners.

21 ( +30 / -9 )

Another day, another shooting.

Things will change one day, maybe not soon but it will definitely happen - you know what republicans are like - against abortion until they suddenly impregnate the secretary. Anti gay marriage until their own kids turn out to be gay.

When gun violence becomes personal for republicans and they start to experience loss, things will change. And i will be laughing at silly comments like ''here come the liberals...''

14 ( +21 / -7 )

I'm sure a lot more "thoughts and prayers" are coming our way soon until the next shooting.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

Another horrifyingly predictable tragedy. Lives taken, once again.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44173954

Shortly after the shooting began in the town of about 13,000 residents, a man carrying an American flag, wearing a Trump hat, and carrying a pistol on his hip approached news cameras.

The man, who did not give his name, told reporters his goal was to "make America great again".

11 ( +13 / -2 )

If you want a society to be awash with guns and easy access to them, you have school shootings. Anything else would be illogical.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Glad we don't have guns in Japan.  I know people will say that guns don't kill people but people kill people kill people, and that knives, cars etc can be used to kill people.  But guns make killing lots of people SO easy.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

And here come the Liberal nut jobs claiming all guns should be banned in 5..4..3....

Just wait, by the end of the day there’ll be over 100 comments claiming just that or how law abiding citizens don’t need them and how we need to be like Europe, be vulnerable and getting rid of the 2nd amendment.

Anyway, my deepest condolences.

-33 ( +6 / -39 )

"It's been happening everywhere. I've always kind of felt like that eventually it was going to happen here too," Santa Fe student Paige Curry told Houston television station KTRK. "I don't know. I wasn't surprised. I was just scared."

This is the saddest part of all. In our inaction and disinterest we've trained a generation of kids to just expect that mass murderers will target their schools. I keep hearing right wingers say they want the younger generations to be more patriotic. How can a people be patriotic if they can't trust their most basic social institutions to not be death traps?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Anyway, my deepest condolences.

Not very convincing. But this is the secondary horror, post-shootings. When those aflicted by the gun disease try to justify the illness.

When the NRA stage a big rally or conference and glorify weaponry.

Because clearly that's what the victims families need to hear. Over and over again.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Not very convincing.

Oh, I’m sorry, you know all of a sudden what’s in my heart.

But this is the secondary horror, post-shootings. When those aflicted by the gun disease try to justify the illness.

No, I think it’s very bad, but how to solve this without treading on the 2nd amendment.

When the NRA stage a big rally or conference and glorify weaponry.

The right to defend themselves, yes.

Because clearly that's what the victims families need to hear. Over and over again.

It’s Texas, most of those victims are gun owners.

-26 ( +5 / -31 )

Oh, I’m sorry, you know all of a sudden what’s in my heart.

Yet again, innocent kids have been murdered - as a gun owner, isn't it about time you and your fellow carriers sacrificed your hobby to protect the lives of your nation's future?

If it mean putting away your toys for good in order to save the many hundreds, nay, thousands more who will perish in the future, would you do it?

Think about it. You have the power to help end this horror.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

When gun violence becomes personal for republicans and they start to experience loss, things will change.

Why would Republicans be considered to be immune from gun violence ? I'm pretty sure all of these mass events effect and personally victimize members of both parties. What will create change is activism with a narrow focus, not gun control in general but the use of a particular gun like the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, rather than guns as a category. That and the fact that these incidences are becoming close to a monthly occurrence could create some common ground that leads to banning or at least limiting the AR-15’s use.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Another day, yet another mass school shooting.

The 'answer' is even less gun control, right? (rolls eyes)

3 ( +8 / -5 )

It's too late for America to turn back. Gun control, gun banishment, metal detectors, more guns, arming teachers... none of that will work unless people learn to respect each other more.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@bas4 No, I think it’s very bad, but how to solve this without treading on the 2nd amendment.

The 2nd Amendment, like all others, was written with the ability to be 'amended'. Only extremists can see an amendment to the Constitution as something permanent, unalterable.

It's US democracy, after all - not Russia, North Korea. People, the US public, still have voices, though authoritarian nationalists are trying to shut them up.

Given the wealth of the gun industries and their financial control of elected officials, I know it would be a challenge to change much in the Constitution, but if peoples' lives can be made safer by making some changes, it's worth a try.

Let the discussions begin for real. Don't let the NRA and other extremists try to stop discussions.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

What will create change is activism with a narrow focus, not gun control in general but the use of a particular gun like the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, rather than guns as a category. That and the fact that these incidences are becoming close to a monthly occurrence could create some common ground that leads to banning or at least limiting the AR-15’s use.

The weapons used in this shooting were a shotgun and a .38 caliber revolver, not an AR-15, so turning this into an 'assault weapons' debate is pointless.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

Yep! Guns don't kill people! People kill people - with guns! It's clear there are too many guns in the US and they are too easily accessible to any nutter with a grudge. However, I fear there is very little they can do or will do about it. There are 30-35,000 gun related deaths in the US every year and this has been going on for decades. Around 60% of these deaths are suicides and around 5% are accidental deaths, which are usually children. Since 1969, when records began to be collected, there have been more people killed by guns in the US than Americans killed in both world wars. Australia made a drastic turnaround some 20 odd years ago with the gun buy-back program, which did get hundreds of thousands of guns out of the society. Of course, there are still guns within the society, but there had not been a mass shooting since the buy-back until last week when some crazed grandfather shot 7 family members. It's obvious something has to be done about the gun problem in the US, but the US response seems to be more guns.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Sometimes you don't appear to have one, when all you do is engage in point scoring.

Because you don't know anything about me, nothing.

Yet again, innocent kids have been murdered - as a gun owner, isn't it about time you and your fellow carriers sacrificed your hobby to protect the lives of your nation's future?

Sorry, that lame argument doesn't work on me, I think the best thing is to have a gun, I'm sorry for the deceased, but I had nothing to do with this and to blame me or anyone that is law abiding and wants to have the right to defend themselves or as a hunter to allow the government (as you probably know millions of us don't trust) to dictate what we can have or cannot have. Why is it, that government officials, celebrities, CEO owners can have the right to protection, but the rest of us cannot. Forget it, the death of these kids are tragic and it is very heart wrenching, but attacking the second amendment won't happen and if they do, the politicians would suffer greatly at the polls.

If it mean putting away your toys for good in order to save the many hundreds, nay, thousands more who will perish in the future, would you do it?

Knowing that they could die from something else, knife attacks, trucks, bombs, straw man argument.

Think about it. You have the power to help end this horror.

That's why I have been a supporter of the NRA for over 20 years.

-26 ( +2 / -28 )

they are too easily accessible to any nutter with a grudge

This is what needs to be focused on. Mental health. You are right, there is little that can be done about the number of guns. Like it or not it is an important freedom to a huge number of Americans. But think if people could put as much effort into fixing the mental health crisis as they do trying to ban guns, imagine what could be done.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

attacking the second amendment won't happen and if they do, the politicians would suffer greatly at the polls.

And there it is. The crux of the matter.

Can't do anything because of the polls. Oh, won't somebody please think about the real victims in this tragedy - the politicians, quivering at the thought of having to show some backbone and tackle this terror which blights America. A terror so easily quashed.

Anyway, bass, somehow I fear we're going to be going around in ever decreasing circles on this one and the next.

Have a good weekend, and stay safe, folks.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Republicans did not soften their views on guns, and Democrats campaigned on a range of issues instead of zeroing in on gun violence.

People need to stop blaming certain parties. As you can see, both parties haven't done anything to prevent this and there have been mass shootings in all of the presidencies since the 80s.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Just another day in the USA...keep your 2nd..

9 ( +11 / -2 )

the nation's deadliest such attack since the massacre in Florida

Just three months ago.

the deadliest in Texas since a man with a semi-automatic rifle attacked a rural church late last year

In other words, just another ordinary day in Merka. Nothing of note here folks, move along.

Why is it, that government officials, celebrities, CEO owners can have the right to protection, but the rest of us cannot.

Why is it the rest of the civilised world gets by without the need for 'protection' in the form of a home arsenal? The best protection is not to have the country heaving with unregulated deadly weapons in the first place.

fixing the mental health crisis

Again, why does the US seem to have so many more murderous nutters than anywhere else?

how to solve this without treading on the 2nd amendment.

If it needs treading on (and all the evidence is that it needs ripping up, never mind just treading on), then do it. It's an amendment to an old and flawed document, not holy writ carved in stone by God.

And in the meantime more young bodies are being placed in coffins and families are mourning. But at least JT's resident comic relief and his friends can still enjoy traipsing into the woods to shoot Bambi. And can dream about protecting their own families from a 'home invasion' using weapons that are properly and legally stored, under lock and key, ammo separate. While sending out empty 'thoughts and prayers'. yeah.

18 ( +20 / -2 )

And there it is. The crux of the matter.

What? You mean liberals wanting to demolish the 2nd amendment, yes.

Can't do anything because of the polls. Oh, won't somebody please think about the real victims in this tragedy

You want a real solution? Ok, here are a few...

1) The politicians should either have all the schools or teachers if they want to carry a firearm or have armed police at the schools, install metal detectors, there are many things the politicians can do.

2) Stop making and ban all these violent video games that have guns and glorify killing. 

3) Ban all movies from showing any gun or gun violence.

There you go, real solutions, real impact! You want to change the perception of guns, there you go. Now you have something to work with and you don't have to have a need to attack the 2nd amendment.

- the politicians, quivering at the thought of having to show some backbone and tackle this terror which blights America. A terror so easily quashed.

This is what Europeans don't understand, it's not that as you would refer to as easily "quashed."

Anyway, bass, somehow I fear we're going to be going around in ever decreasing circles on this one and the next.

Have a good weekend, and stay safe, folks.

You too.

-22 ( +2 / -24 )

Again! Poor students. Schools seem like battle field. America is really cursed by guns. It is guns country destiny.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

You want a real solution? Ok, here are a few...

1) The politicians should either have all the schools or teachers if they want to carry a firearm or have armed police at the schools, install metal detectors, there are many things the politicians can do.

2) Stop making and ban all these violent video games that have guns and glorify killing. 

3) Ban all movies from showing any gun or gun violence.

Other countries have kids playing violent video games that have guns and glorify killing.

American movies (and TV shows) showing guns and gun violence are ubiquitous around the world.

....yet other countries don't have nutters shooting up the schools, or people quaking in their boots at the thought of a 'home invasion'. Those other countries don't achieve that by filling the schools with armed guards, or by shoving guns into the hands of educators.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Shootings at schools didn't exist when I was a kid and there were just as many firearms around back then.

So what changed?

I have a few ideas, but I'd love to hear yours.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Other countries have kids playing violent video games that have guns and glorify killing.

So let's get rid of the video games, let's start with the kids, grassroots.

American movies (and TV shows) showing guns and gun violence are ubiquitous around the world.

So then don't be a hypocrite and show guns on one hand in the movies saying it's ok, but then outsiders or in the case of the US telling us, we should abolish the 2nd amendment and as a member and supporter of NRA, never going to happen. 

....yet other countries don't have nutters shooting up the schools, or people quaking in their boots at the thought of a 'home invasion'. Those other countries don't achieve that by filling the schools with armed guards, or by shoving guns into the hands of educators.

Ok, but I'm American, so I don't care what other countries do, other countries have other problems, more terrorism, knife attacks, truck attacks, bomb attacks etc. 

I just care about my country, what solutions we can have to safeguard our kids without attacking law-abiding citizens.

-24 ( +0 / -24 )

According to CNN this morning, there is a mass shooting in a school in the USA once a week on average.  It is so common now that unless 10 or more get killed, it doesn't make the news.  What is the big story in Japan?  An illegal tackle in an American football game.  I prefer Japan.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

There are more mass killings in the U.S. than any other country in the world, yet people still claim the need to have guns in order to protect oneself. Wake up to yourself! When will you learn? Never will I visit the U.S. until the draconian laws and demented views change.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Kids deserve better than growing up in a war zone where they have to keep dodging bullets. The American Dream!

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Lots of kids will die. It’s the price we pay for the gun culture. The gun owners want to feel safe, and as a sacrifice we offer up kids.

To them, it’s a fair exchange. Other people’s kids for their guns.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Lots of kids will die. It’s the price we pay for the gun culture. The gun owners want to feel safe, and as a sacrifice we offer up kids. 

Not at all, but it’s a weak argument, more people die in car crashes, we going to ban that. More people die of choking, are we going to ban chewing. Nice try.

To them, it’s a fair exchange. Other people’s kids for their guns.

Uh-huh...ROFL

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

It's been happening everywhere. I've always kind of felt like that eventually it was going to happen here too," Santa Fe High School student Paige Curry told Houston television station KTRK. "I don't know. I wasn't surprised. I was just scared.

Nobody claiming she was being manipulated by CNN yet?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Uh-huh...ROFL

Relax. No one is going to take your guns. You will never be forced to leave your house without the ability to instantly kill someone when you drop your kids off somewhere,

10 ( +12 / -2 )

85 school shootings in the US since Columbine. 223 people, students and staff, dead. Every time, the same old platitudes from the authorities and the same old defence of 'rights' from NRA supporters (and Presidents).

Have armed guards, say the NRA people. You had one here - he got shot, too. The last one ran away. Or was that the one before that?

Arm the teachers, then. Yeah, right. Dear old Mrs X the English teacher pulling a .38 out of her cardigan in a panic and exchanging shots with some young punk who's quicker, stronger and more heavily armed than she is. How could that go wrong? This isn't some Hollywood script. The good guys aren't necessarily going to win.

Seems to me a lot of this is due to alienation and copy cat behaviour. All over the world young men - boys - go through a period of alienation, usually temporary. In some countries they turn to religious-based terrorism. Only in the US, it seems, do alienated youths have access to the kind of weaponry required to cause this kind of damage. And compared to 1791 when the Second Amendment was enshrined, that weaponry is a lot more efficient these days than it used to be.

But hey, don't change the laws or anything. Some things are sacred, right?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

I would like to know if this school guard person was armed. Probably not as the killer is still alive with no mention of him being wounded.

The wounded included a school police officer who was the first to confront the suspect and got shot in the arm.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Nobody claiming she was being manipulated by CNN yet?

Give it a week and you'll start hearing about the deep state, George Soros, Obama, dems, libs, the left and the usual others once again manipulating the whole thing.

Does anyone know if Trump responded to this by making a finger-gun, saying 'boom, boom' and saying how he would have taken the murderer out?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@blackmable I would like to know if this school guard person was armed.

If you've ever had any direct experience with a 'live' shooting exchange you'd know if an armed guard was on scene there would be as much chance for collateral damage, i.e. a student or teacher being shot, as there would be for the guard taking out the shooter.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

There are more mass killings in the U.S. than any other country in the world, yet people still claim the need to have guns in order to protect oneself.

I think your 'yet' should be an 'and so'. I'm anti-open gun laws, but if I move to America, I'll strongly consider whether or not to get one. The ideal is strong gun control, and very few guns amongst the people, with those who have them being trained, vetted, and monitored. The reality is that with so many guns, it's sketchy to be the guy without one.

Unfortunately, this may be a real decision I may have to make. We're considering opening our next branch office in the US, which would mean me living their for 2-3 years.

Hard decisions. Certainly don't want my kids worrying about getting shot at school every day.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It's messed up that there are so many mass shootings in the US, that I'm not even sure which incident this is referring to:

Friday's assault was the deadliest in Texas since a man with a semi-automatic rifle attacked a rural church late last year, killing more than two dozen people.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This is the price NRA members are willing to inflict on innocent shooting victims and their families and friends so that they can continue to hoard weapons. Thorough background checks and the mandatory use of trigger locks - both opposed by the NRA - could have likely prevented this shooting, and many others.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

And here come the Gun nut jobs claiming guns don't kill in 5..4..3....

14 ( +16 / -2 )

What is a Childs life worth in the USA. Apparently not much according to the NRA and many others.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Another tragic mass institute of learning for children when they deserve so much more. Victims are not only the dead but the survivors who are scarred for life by the horror.

I was also shocked by the media sticking their cameras into the faces of crying students who were in a state of shock and not the right way to respect and treat them.

Texas a state with some of the fewest gun control laws now pays a terrible price for it.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It's gotten to the point where it's more surprising if there isn't a school shooting than if there is one.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I would like to know if this school guard person was armed. Probably not as the killer is still alive with no mention of him being wounded.

There were more than one armed guards. The problem is too many entrances and exits at schools to place a guard at each one according to the Lt. Gov. of Texas. Entrances and exits is the new scapegoat... Pathetic.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

If gun control doesn't go better, only solution seems everybody (all school children, all teachers, all women, all people ) has to wear/carry guns to protect their lives and families wherever they go. This is only way to be able to survive long if completely all people have guns whether they like it or not.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Bass4funk - You want a real solution? Ok, here are a few...

1) The politicians should either have all the schools or teachers if they want to carry a firearm or have armed police at the schools, install metal detectors, there are many things the politicians can do.

More guns? What a ridiculous idea!

2) Stop making and ban all these violent video games that have guns and glorify killing. 

The mass killings in the US started long before video games were even invented.

3) Ban all movies from showing any gun or gun violence.

Violent movies were made long before idiots with assault rifles and multiple guns started killing masses of people.

All of these so-called 'solutions' are treating the symptoms and not addressing the cause, which is, too many idiots with guns in the US. The solution is, disarm American people!

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Ok, but I'm American, so I don't care what other countries do, other countries have other problems, more terrorism, knife attacks, truck attacks, bomb attacks etc. 

You say that when you find it convenient but recently you posted many comments on the Israeli Palestinian conflict, or other countries when its also convenient.

No mass shootings of Japanese school children, I wonder why. Your children attend school without the need to carry arms and you yourself live here without the need of your 24 weapons.

Its not even about banning guns but about gun control laws and this state which has the least now pays the piper.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The 2nd Amendment was designed before we had military for national defense and law enforcement officers. It was not designed for private citizens to carry military-grade weapons, or to result in mass shootings. If you really believe in the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, keep your legally-registered guns under lock and key. And for those selling guns on the black market, you deserve a life sentence in prison.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Mom to kid

Got your homework

"check"

Got your lunch

"check"

Got your phone

"check"

Got your AF-15

"check"

Got your concealed weapon"

"check"

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The 22nd school shooting in the US this year. Shameful.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Already fake accounts are being set up online pushing fake news. Who's doing this?

Some people have no shame

9 ( +9 / -0 )

...And here come the morons who probably believe that the solution to gun problems is MORE GUNS!!

the ol’ “if I was there I would have done such and such”

never mind the fact that too many people who are determined to kill have easy access to guns.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Finding, at the very least, an understanding of what is causing this tragic increase in school shootings is the only way to explore possible solutions. In the current environment the knee jerk reaction is invigorate the gun debate and any earnest discussion about other pieces in the puzzle is drowned out in the rhetorical white noise.

The rate of firearm related crime (including murder) has been in a steady decline and is at the lowest rate since the 90s. Two statistical areas that have increased within the overall decline are suicide and mass school shootings. In the case of school shootings not only have the number of incidents increased but there has been a progressive increase in the frequency. Why is that?

A growing body of evidence is showing a strong correlation between the rates of adolescent suicide, violent behavior and the level of smartphone access and social media involvement. Other researchers have identified what they call the "media contagion effect" which results from the intense media coverage, including social media. Smartphones and social media have changed the way that Americans relate to themselves and to others and it is not all positive.

Both Pagourtzis and Cruz had significant social media footprints that, in retrospect, should have raised some serious red flags. That is, if anybody was taking a look at it. They pretty much sent an invitation to law enforcement to intervene, but in both cases the opportunity was lost. I'm sure that the cops and the FBI are capable of effectively identifying and addressing potential problems. It might be that they just weren't seeing it for what it could be.

If recent advancements in technology have had the inadvertent effect of setting the stage for this type of social dysfunction; then how far is society willing to go to rein it in? Is that new iphone and Instagram account more important than human lives?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Imagine a country absolutely awash in guns and violence, and has no solution to its non-stop mass-shooting massacres ... yet this same country declares that its "leadership" is needed in all parts of the world! Astonishing arrogance. Kim Jong Un should tell Trump, "if you can solve your mass-shootings problem, I will consider a summit with you."

7 ( +8 / -1 )

If recent advancements in technology have had the inadvertent effect of setting the stage for this type of social dysfunction; then how far is society willing to go to rein it in? Is that new iphone and Instagram account more important than human lives?

How do you know that it's technology that is responsible.

I'd like to know how many of these school shooters are on anti-depressants or stimulants like adderol (sp?). I've heard that the majority are, but the drug companies don't want this information made public. I'm not sure if there is an basis in reality on this claim, not having seen any numbers, but with the massive prescription drug problem in the US, it may explain why we see so many school shootings in the US, without seeing a similar number of non-shooting violent school incidents in countries without guns galore.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

"In the current environment the knee jerk reaction"

Simple, less guns less deaths. Go straight to the effect while working out the causes. Let's not apologize for mass shootings of young school children in their learning institutions. The Las Vegas mass shooter wasn't a social media addicted teenager.

A growing body of evidence is showing a strong correlation between the rates of adolescent suicide, violent behavior and the level of smartphone access and social media involvement.

What would that growing body of evidence be then?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Smartphones and social media have changed the way that Americans relate to themselves and to others and it is not all positive.

It isn't only American kids who have smart phones and social media. Nearly every Japanese kid has one and spends endless time texting, social media, but unlike the American kids they have no access to guns.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Ollie North sleeping easy in his bed tonight?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

This is what you get if you allow lunatics to purchase guns.

There was a guy on the news wearing a "Trump" hat, carrying an American flag and a handgun. He was heading to the school to "offer support". It's all very strange.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

No armed teachers in this Texas school? Too bad, some people never listening to life saving advice!

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Finding, at the very least, an understanding of what is causing this tragic increase in school shootings

Guns. Proof: Japan has none, except hunters

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Yesterday, at Dixon High School in Illinois, there was a school shooter. He was stopped by an armed security guard who chased and shot him. BUT that story wasn't highlighted, anywhere. It showed up on CNN and CBS some 6 hours after it happened, and then only briefly.

So, we are teaching these crazy kids that they become famous by killing people, but when they are stopped, we don't talk about it?

7000 African Americans, 2500 of those children, killed annually by illegal guns in our inner cities, without one liberal demanding gun confiscation or blaming NRA, until suburban kids are murdered.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Shootings at schools didn't exist when I was a kid and there were just as many firearms around back then.

So what changed?

One thing that certainly has changed greatly is the medications these nutters on on.

...And here come the morons who probably believe that the solution to gun problems is MORE GUNS!!

There appear to be more moro.. who think stricter laws will have all the guns magically disappear, just like making a zone gun-free will automatically prevent people with guns from entering.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Yesterday, at Dixon High School in Illinois, there was a school shooter. He was stopped by an armed security guard

The armed guards could not stop the Orlando shooter - 50 killed.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I currently living in Texas and it’s a scary place.

I hate guns so I would never have one but I keep a charged taser by my door and I have a house alarm with a panic button. I keep a knife in my car and my purse and I don’t go out after dark.

When people ask me for money in parking lots I feel forced to give them something just to avoid conflict.

I never felt this way in Japan.

This kind of fear and living hell is the reason people want to keep there guns. However, if the US could create some hardcore gun control laws like they have in Japan, I would be pleased as pie.

I can’t help but think that if our founding fathers could see the problems their 2nd amendment has caused, they would be the first to get rid off it. Too bad we can’t bring them back to life to ask them.

The 2nd amendment was written for very different kind of guns then what we have now and for a very different reason.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

If you own a Gun, you should be forced to have a licence for that particular Gun, and insurance for that particular gun, to cover misuse, and accidental damage. Without either of the latter, you should not be allowed to own that Gun.

Now, how would the above be in disagreement with the Right to bear arms ? It doesn't stop you, just associates the License and Insurance as being part of the Arms "package".

Anyway, the US constitution will never be changed, so whats the point of trying to suggest anything.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Kabukudeath

A trained, armed security guard is different from a math teacher with a pistol.

Besides, I read about that one on the BBC.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

How do you know that it's technology that is responsible.

I don't. But there is research out there that shows a possible relationship. It's available if you look.

You're right on about the meds. The money that the pharmaceutical companies make and enormous amount of money they spend on direct lobbying seems to have a dampening effect on that line of discussion. It doesn't really get that much traction in the media as well. I really don't think it's a very popular subject.

A while back, on this site,I shared my experience at a Human Services seminar which I attended where the main topic was the use of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and the increased incidents of suicidal and violent ideations among adolescents and teens. I was informed by a poster here, that because the NRA had publicly raised a question about that issue, the argument was invalid. Unfortunately, at least from my experience, that attitude is common among control advocates.

This is all about human behavior, there is motivation behind it. Unless society addresses the motivation, no amount of gun control, including complete confiscation, will solve the problem. Anyone can go online and learn how to make Sarin, if they are motivated enough.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

It’s Texas, most of those victims are gun owners.

Now this is interesting. Gun owners active on this forum and their POTUS at the NRA meeting recently stated that IF someone in the audience had a gun the outcome of the massacre would have been different.

The objection will be that they have to keep them in a closet but a closet is still in reach.

Ofcourse the outcome would have been the same.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

A growing body of evidence is showing a strong correlation between the rates of adolescent suicide, violent behavior and the level of smartphone access and social media involvement

Why are all mass school shooters male students and not female students? They are both using social media and iPhones.

Kuya 808

It isn't only American kids who have smart phones and social media. Nearly every Japanese kid has one and spends endless time texting, social media, but unlike the American kids they have no access to guns.

How do explain that?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

All gun laws need to be federal and not state. What good is it when you can buy a firearm in one state and then take it across state line into another both with different gun control laws. Nothing in the 2nd Amendment that gun laws have to be state laws.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@ Zichi, you forgot Ted Nugent as well I've seen a few of his vitriolic rants about "more guns more protection"! theres plenty on youtube to watch, I wonder if he sleeped well last night?, The gun lobby and small arms manufacturing and the NRA is an important part of the USA economy, but, at what point do you put a value on not only children's lives also adults to? and why do these losers or unstable youths have to pick on little school children/students? why? is it because they can't they fight back, is that why they do it? if you losers what to shoot people joint the military become a man. this looser does not have the back bone to end his own miserable life, but he can shoot innocent people, god know how his dad feels this morning knowing its guns have been taken and used for this atrocity and especially as it might have been avoided if they were locked up in a strong cabinet, another 10 innocent lives have been taken from parent's.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I would like to know if this school guard person was armed. Probably not

WRONG!!!!!

What's more, the Santa Fe school had two armed police officers and had trained extensively in active shooter protocols, so it wasn't a situation where "good guys with guns" can solve the problem.

(news source)

4 ( +5 / -1 )

To pull a trigger uses 7 muscles but not the brain.

Brian Wheway

@ Zichi, you forgot Ted Nugent as well I've seen a few of his vitriolic rants about "more guns more protection"!

Didn't work out well in Texas with it's liberal gun laws, rights to carry, concealed weapons. 20.79 guns per capita. Another theory straight out of the window.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Relax. No one is going to take your guns.

Not right away, of course not, but that doesn’t mean the left isn’t trying in small incremental steps.

You will never be forced to leave your house without the ability to instantly kill someone when you drop your kids off somewhere,

As long as there are liberals around, you may be right.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Given all the gun violence in the States, and the attitude of everyone who seems to advocate continued widespread use of guns, I hope that Tourists can now rent one upon arrival for their own protection, I mean, the argument goes that it's for US Citizens own protection, so why not visitors ?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

One thing that certainly has changed greatly is the medications these nutters on on.

Sure, but like violent movies/games, technology, social media, societal shifts, and every other excuse from gun-advocates, that change occurred in every other country in the world, yet mass shootings are unique to the US.

And the mental health excuse has been used by Republican lawmakers for a while now. What proposals have they actually come up with to deal with it?

There appear to be more moro.. who think stricter laws will have all the guns magically disappear, just like making a zone gun-free will automatically prevent people with guns from entering.

Much stricter laws would reduce the number of guns in circulation and ease of access, which has been proven to work in every other country without guns.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

All the states with the highest firearm deaths are red and the ones with the most liberal gun control laws.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

This was the worst mass shooting since.........oh........February, just three months ago. This one was also in a school. There was an armed guard who, by being armed, makes himself the logical first target of a kid with a gun. The guard was also shot and seriously wounded. Americans should be embarrassed beyond words. More guns can only mean more deaths, it's very simple. Fewer guns can only mean fewer deaths. No guns can only mean no deaths by shooting. How about a Plan B America? A plan that is based on common sense. The world is watching and waiting.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

You know, this is really sad but i'm just going to say it. I've become numb to this. I don't live in the US but at this point i consider this par of the course for that country. And it is sad, and depressing when the news about children being shot gives away a reaction of a shrug but that is the case. It's just like: "Oh, another school shooting in the US. What else is new?"

6 ( +6 / -0 )

prossnip42.... yes as there's absolutely nothing that can be done when no one wants to do anything,

5 ( +5 / -0 )

bass4funkToday  08:45 am JST

You want a real solution? Ok, here are a few...

...

2) Stop making and ban all these violent video games that have guns and glorify killing. 

3) Ban all movies from showing any gun or gun violence.

There you go, real solutions, real impact!

So, your "real solution" is to eviscerate the 1st Amendment in order to avoid even the slightest, teensiest bit of gun regulation. Even though sensible gun regulation has been shown to work and thought control hasn't.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I believe the 2nd amendment is the right to carry a gun In Order to Protect the Country, ( "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.").

How many NRA members are also members of the National Guard / US Forces? It should be abourt 100%. How many NRA members are willing to run to Iran/Iraq/North Korea/Palestine and kill, kill, kill? It should be about 100%.

How many gun owners are in the national guard or US forces? Willing to kill not only Americans (15,000 last year) but also citizens of other countries?

Remember the US Revolution? The citizen-soldiers at that time had to bring their own weapons. I believe the US gov’t now provides weapons for its armed forces. But I guess stupid conservatives don’t know the difference between shooting an unarmed civilian and the Security of the US. Not surprising.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

My Japanese wife asked me this morning why there are so many mass shooting she understood when I told her some seem to a violent DNA gene.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

States ought to have a Mass Shooting forecast in their daily news broadcasts like Weather forecasts seeing as how unbelievably frequent these have become.

My thoughts are with those affected.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This is one thing I am glad I don't have to worry about living in Japan.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In their genes ? or in their Jeans ?

Hmm... maybe we should worry about subliminal messages being broadcast over the internet via youtube or some alike that makes these young people flip ?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

American gun deaths 2018

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Even if they bring in gun control laws, it will be too little too late.

There are a vast number owned and licensed and even more are unlicensed, stolen, smuggled in, home made guns.

The guns are out there and will be impossible to remove and stop people using them for illegal use.

There will be more mass shootings in the USA and more deaths.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Even if they bring in gun control laws, it will be too little too late.

There are a vast number owned and licensed and even more are unlicensed, stolen, smuggled in, home made guns.

It took generations to build up such mass of guns - it'll take generations to clear them mostly out

Even if the spigot is reduced to a trickle (with tougher gun laws), it'd take awhile to drain an Olympic-sized swimming pool (it's a huge population)

Still doesn't mean laws couldn't be made tougher - it's just that it'll take generations regardless

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So, your "real solution" is to eviscerate the 1st Amendment in order to avoid even the slightest, teensiest bit of gun regulation.

Not at all, unlike you guys wanting to eviscerate the 2nd amendment, in the most subtle way possible.

Even though sensible gun regulation has been shown to work and thought control hasn't.

And most gun owners are law abiding citizens, talk about emotional outbursts.

My Japanese wife asked me this morning why there are so many mass shooting she understood when I told her some seem to a violent DNA gene.

So when people hijack trucks, kill people or knife people to death, now I know why.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

May those that died.., rest in peace. May all that suffered a loss.., find some solace.

May this incident as with many others happening all over the US and the world, bring attention to the need to find the reasons and causes that bring young persons to "kill" others. However, to call all such killings as being caused by gun ownership may be misleading.

There is a "reason" logical or illogical, rational or irrational behind all action.

These occurrences are extremely frustrating in that there has been no real inquiry, study, evaluation and analysis of the reasons behind these actions. Only the "use" of guns have been placed for public discussion only because of the number of victims per incident and because it happened in an "assumed" safe-zone. There are many that occur by knives and other weapons whose individual numbers are usually less. And there are those that use vehicles that increase the number of victims.

Besides "terrorism", much of the current incidents appear to be a "social" and "cultural" problem. That is because the problem is not the weapons used but the "person" or "persons" using the weapons. Until such issues are addressed, changing gun control laws or removing guns may not make sense. It certainly does not apply to the 2nd amendment as it does not control the "use" of weapons, but permitting the ownership of weapons by militias for protecting the country.

It also is a perspective on how our society is changing and the need for correction in our social and cultural values, thoughts, and actions. Much of that appear to be because one forgets that in any relationship there is "responsibility" which is different in every culture and society. And that society can only survive if there is some level of uniformity and conformity to a standard of values and acceptable actions.

Sadly much of that was taught by parents and grandparents. Today much of that is left to "teachers" and "caregivers" that may not share the same sense and standards of values and responsibility needed for that society. That is one problem with multicultural society with many immigrants that do not integrate. One probable reason why there are many "gangs" that thrive today that set their own values and standards.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

bass4funkToday  07:18 pm JST

So, your "real solution" is to eviscerate the 1st Amendment in order to avoid even the slightest, teensiest bit of gun regulation.

Not at all, unlike you guys wanting to eviscerate the 2nd amendment,

Neither I nor any commentator with any significant American public following has ever called for the evisceration of the 2nd Amendment. You need to start engaging with what people actually say, not what you wish they had said.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Another day in 'Merika, and another white terrorist carrying out a gun massacre.

bass4funk: "And most gun owners are law abiding citizens"

Until they aren't. They stop being when they commit massacres, which they could not nearly to the same extent, if at all, without them. Them's the facts, my friends. But do tell us how he could have done the same thing with a pizza box and the will, or how guns are as diverse in usage and purpose as trucks and kitchen knives again.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If you want a society to be awash with guns and easy access to them, you have school shootings. Anything else would be illogical.

@SuperLib...Uh, right. Give people guns and they will logically go out and kill kids in school. On what planet is that logical? It's only logical if mental illness is the norm, which it seems to be in the USA.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Neither I nor any commentator with any significant American public following has ever called for the evisceration of the 2nd Amendment.

Not you outright, but we all know or anyone with a sense of reality knows the Dems would like nothing more than to get rid of the 2nd amendment or severely modifying it.

You need to start engaging with what people actually say, not what you wish they had said.

No, I’m a straight forward guy, I just deal with reality, I don’t see life of how liberals want me to see it, but how it really is, sorry.

Until they aren't.

But most are, focus on the majority Smith. Just try it.

They stop being when they commit massacres, which they could not nearly to the same extent, if at all, without them.

Yes, but we have the 2nd amendment, that’s like me saying, “IF” we didn’t have liberals...but we do, so making that baseless comment is irrelevant.

Them's the facts, my friends. But do tell us how he could have done the same thing with a pizza box and the will, or how guns are as diverse in usage and purpose as trucks and kitchen knives again.

Get a truck, mow people down. Get a machete and whack as many people as you can. Even if 5 people are murdered, it’s still unacceptable regardless of what weapon you use.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

So thankful to be in a country with no guns. Every school and year has loners and kids struggling with one problem or another. Broken families, divorced, toxic environments cause kids to go crazy imo. I really hope the kids in that Texas school get the mental help they need to overcome this tragic situation and the next gun shooting doesn't happen any time soon. Hopefully not another one this year.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

You know there's something seriously wrong with gun laws and US gun culture when the the total number of school shooting deaths in the US is higher than that of servicemen and women killed in the military so far this year.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

It is their country, and they have their democratic processes.

They can have their gun toting law abiding citizens! (One of who, just took his papa's guns to school and became a non law abiding citizen) And they can speak freely about their "Liberal Nut Jobs"

As for me, I will take my liberal nut jobs, and my non-gun toting law abiding citizens. And feel a whole lot better about going to a rock concert, church, a movie, a night club and even sending my kids to school!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

bass4funkToday  09:15 pm JST

Not you outright, but we all know or anyone with a sense of reality knows the Dems would like nothing more than to get rid of the 2nd amendment or severely modifying it.

So your solution to being caught in a paranoid lie is to double down with a slanderous and baseless conspiracy theory.

No, I’m a straight forward guy,

Right... because "straight forward guys" feel the need to constantly spam news sites with reactionary made-up nonsense about everyone in the world who dares to disagree with them.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

A firearm is also a responsibility.

Failure to properly secure a firearm against unapproved use needs to be a federal crime. Arrests made should someone's firearm be used in a felony, even if it is your child. Felony's remove the right to own firearms. Proper safes and trigger locks would solve the school shootings by kids.

Mentally unstable people aren't allowed to own firearms already. Stricter enforcement and reporting of that needs to happen.

Requiring automatic weapons be stored at a gun club location should also be required, if there isn't an approved storage capability (floor-bolted, concrete poured, steel, safe) at home. A locked glass display case is not sufficient.

The goal isn't to prevent 2nd Amendment Rights, but to prevent unauthorized use. The NRA won't like it, but something needs to happen until News networks and social media stop glamorizing terrible events on the front page.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Well, this kid used a common shotgun and a handgun. No assault rifles (whatever those are) in sight.

As others have said, the statistics are quite clear. There are more guns and more people in the US than ever before, yet at the same time there are fewer gun deaths and fewer gun murders. Perhaps we can try to narrow our focus on to what is actually increasing, which is this kind of mass killing event. Time to take the emotion out of the discussion and try to replace it with rationality and fact. WHY do these events happen? What has happened in society to encourage/create/embolden these acts? Those questions can't be answered with simplistic calls for banning weapons.

theFu: automatic weapons are already virtually banned, so you don't need to worry about storing them. There are very few in circulation, and they are VERY tightly regulated.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Why is it that so many gun owning posters manage to shoot themselves in the foot with their feeble defenses?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

When I hear "responsible" gun owners refer to their guns as "toys" I know just how "responsible" they truly are.

When I hear that the perpetrators in these types of mass shootings have suddenly been determined to have "known mental problems", I know that gun laws are still too lax and the lobbyists and PR teams have been doing their disgusting work.

How much blood needs to be spilled until these people wise up?

Good ol' 'Muricans can't be happy unless our own soil is a self made war zone.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Why are all mass school shooters male students and not female students? They are both using social media and iPhones.

Zichi,

Because boys and girls are different. The suicide rate among adolescent girls has risen by some estimates by as much as 200% between 2010 and 2015. Maybe some girls tend to kill themselves while some boys tend to kill others. Same basic stressors with different outcomes based of the fundamental differences between adolescent boys and girls.

If you don't think there are negative ramifications to wide spread smartphone use in Japan then you are kidding yourself. America and Japan have different cultures their problems tend to be different as well.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The NRA is a cult, and and a dangerous one at that.

Ban all automatic weapons. Ban them now.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

And here come the Liberal nut jobs claiming all guns should be banned in 5..4..3....

And here comes the gun lobby and their useful-idiot supporters with their gun fetish.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@belrick Is your point to show how little regard you have for innocent lives being taken so you can keep shooting your guns?

No, it isn't. It's to clearly show that liberals blame the guns instead of addressing the real issues of mental health problems! And clearly my point was down-thumbed by a lot of those on the left, who clearly don't get it!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Exactly. The laughable part is, the constant “in this country...” as if most gun holders care what outsiders think.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

The biggest problem USA has is that, in the debate over the gun issue, one side of the debate seems to think that there is no problem at all.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

one side of the debate seems to think that there is no problem at all.

Oneside of the debate constantly argues that if people can't get access to guns then they will find alternatives (knives, trucks etc).

Yet only one country seems to have school massacres - the country drowning in guns. Other countries don't have them. The USA has school massacres because there are so many guns.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Teachers should carry firearms now, no alternatives!

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Teachers should carry firearms now, no alternatives!

there a million alternatives if the people want them. Kid gunman starts firing in a closed classroom the teacher pulls the sidearm and opens fire. Everyone between the teacher and the kid shooter dead including them.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Is it cowardice, fear, impotence, ignorance, lack of respect for human lives that prevents legislators, those elected to protect the people, their own people outlawing the possession of lethal weapons, weapons that are produced and distributed for one reason only which is to kill and maim to act and take a stand and put an end to willful murder? Is it greed, stupidity that stimulates inactivity to finally put an end to the carnage? Is this the way of a modern nation that prides itself on its freedom and democracy but which are just a mirage that divides this nation that has not succeeded in freeing itself of the notion that guns in the home are a necessary remnant of its wild west days when guns were as omnipresent as a coffee jug? Does this nation lack the capability to protects its own citizens, does it not have a police force, means of defending its own people, government the people can rely on and trust, an FBI, a CIA? If the answer is NO, than yes, humor the NRA, the archaic 2nd amendment, the arms industry and those who profit by it. If the answer is YES, but we want our toys then that is an indication of a very sick society. A society, a nation that wants to be an example to the world but one that cannot keep its own house in order. A nation that has come to terms with sacrificing its own people to interests of greed, stupidity and ignorance. Picture the image of making America great again.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

lets be honest, it has nothing to do with guns or gun laws but with the fact that american society and culture are sick.

There are many countries in the world with lesser gun laws yet nobody goes to shoot schools , because even really disturbed people realise that education is sacred.

the issue is with overindulgence , gluttony, fake feeling of self worth and other symbols of american "education" and society.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Hey bass, every one is a law abiding citizen until they’re not.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The 17 year old suspect will be charged has an adult but can't face the death penalty according to a 2005 Fed Supreme Court ruling. He could get parole after 40 years in prison making him 57 years.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Of the 27 deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history, 24 were committed by men who grew up with no father in the home. And expanding on this, U.S. prisons are overwhelmingly populated by men from fatherless backgrounds.

Want to pursue solutions? Start there.

And for the love of God, stop blaming the NRA.

In recent months we've seen mass murders with motor vehicles being plowed into large crowds in New York, Toronto, London, and Berlin. Did anyone blame the AAA? Or its Canadian, British, or German equivalents?

The vast majority of serial killers in U.S. history did not use guns. The 9/11 terrorists did not use guns to kill all those people in New York and Washington -- nor did they even use guns to hijack the planes.

And the single largest mass murder carried about by one individual in U.S. history -- the 1993 Oklahoma City bombing carried out by Timothy McVeigh -- did not involve a gun. It involved a truck and a bomb made out of fertilizer. Was that the state agricultural association's fault?

Every time someone kills someone else with a knife, baseball bat, poison, bomb, or their bare hands, we blame the killer. But when it's a gun, we blame the gun. Why is that?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

But when it's a gun, we blame the gun. Why is that?

Because nothing spreads death faster and more efficiently than easy to access guns.

And also because gun supporters will do and say almost anything to to deflect from this very real and very serious problem that afflicts the US.

How long before the next massacre?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

In recent months we've seen mass murders with motor vehicles being plowed into large crowds in New York, Toronto, London, and Berlin. Did anyone blame the AAA? Or its Canadian, British, or German equivalents?

Um no, because none of these organizations spend millions and millions of dollars to lobby the government to ensure that anyone and everyone is able to drive with with no restrictions whatsoever.

What a silly argument.

The vast majority of serial killers in U.S. history did not use guns. The 9/11 terrorists did not use guns to kill all those people in New York and Washington -- nor did they even use guns to hijack the planes.

And neither is anyone else here talking about serial killers, or the 9-11 terrorists. Please try to keep it on topic.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Alex Eins

lets be honest, it has nothing to do with guns or gun laws but with the fact that american society and culture are sick.

There are many countries in the world with lesser gun laws yet nobody goes to shoot schools , because even really disturbed people realise that education is sacred.

the issue is with overindulgence , gluttony, fake feeling of self worth and other symbols of american "education" and society.

Sadly, I think you are spot on with this.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Black Sabbath

Ban all automatic weapons. Ban them now.

Sigh. Automatic weapons are already illegal for the average person to own, not to mention the shooter in this case did not even use semi-automatic weapons. He used a pump action shotgun and a revolver. If you are going to have an opinion on something, at least make it an educated one.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

lets be honest, it has nothing to do with guns or gun laws but with the fact that american society and culture are sick.

It's ridiculous to think it's one or the other.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It's ridiculous to think it's one or the other.

I beg to differ. Look at Switzerland. 2 million guns in a population of 8 million people (third highest per capita after the US and Yemen) and not a mass shooting since 2001, and in 2016 (latest data I could find) had only 47 attempted gun homicides and a near zero murder rate. Many of those weapons (about half) aren't just military style, but actual military weapons taken home after their service has ended.

As easy as it is to do, you cannot just blame the gun and expect the rest of the problems to go away.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Look at Switzerland. 2 million guns in a population of 8 million people

With very strict regulation. Thanks for making the point that all guns need to be strictly regulated and registered in Switzerland. The government needs to know who has the guns exactly. The US needs to do that- and they already do if you have a machine gun made by the mid-80s. yes, it is legal to possess a machine gun in the USA and I bet most 2ANRA people don't know that. The US needs to have a database of all gun possessions in the USA. Not on database = a crime. Good point about the Swiss and the US needs to do the same. But should the US then allow gun sales of even military modern weaponry since you cannot just blame the gun? How about a Milkor MGL grenade launcher?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That's a good point. While the ideal is no guns, the reality is that some people will have guns, and the actually it is that some countries have responsible gun laws. Switzerland is a good example of how things should be done. The US is a good example of how they shouldn't.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

With very strict regulation. Thanks for making the point that all guns need to be strictly regulated and registered in Switzerland. The government needs to know who has the guns exactly. The US needs to do that- and they already do if you have a machine gun made by the mid-80s. yes, it is legal to possess a machine gun in the USA and I bet most 2ANRA people don't know that. The US needs to have a database of all gun possessions in the USA. Not on database = a crime. Good point about the Swiss and the US needs to do the same. But should the US then allow gun sales of even military modern weaponry since you cannot just blame the gun? How about a Milkor MGL grenade launcher?

"Automatic weapons are already illegal for the* average person"*

I quoted myself from my comment about automatic weapons in case you missed it. Notice where I said 'average person'. Do you know the process to legally own an automatic weapon? I do. The average person cannot afford the costs related to owning one and most gun owners actually do know that. It's the people that are still yelling 'BAN AUTOMATIC WEAPONS' that don't have a clue about it, but thank you for making assumptions.

As far as weapons go, congratulations on knowing the name of a grenade launcher but this has nothing to do with the conversation. My point about Switzerland and military weapons is that even with military weapons, the Swiss rarely have gun problems and it has nothing to do with gun restrictions. Please don't twist my point into something ridiculous to try and skew the narrative. That's just plain ignorant.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"Automatic weapons are already illegal for the average person"

Should be "Automatic weapons are already illegal for people who don't have 15-20 thousand dollars to spend on a gun and permits"Yes, it would seem illegal for the average person because the average person would not be willing to shell out that amount for a gun and necessary permit

As far as weapons go, congratulations on knowing the name of a grenade launcher but this has nothing to do with the conversation.

Why?....

If you just cannot just blame the gun then what's the harm in getting any gun we want?

He used a pump action shotgun....

and would have done a lot more damage with a semi-auto. Semi auto bullets do a lot more damage to the body than handguns.

This is what needs to be focused on. Mental health.

Mentally ill people can still buy guns if only the doctor knows, including semi autos.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Two things are true. School shootings have become commonplace. The NRA and the right-wingers who oppose reasonable gun restrictions have lost all common sense. Once upon a time people on the extreme right were called yahoos. They were on the fringe. Now they are not only mainstream but also they have taken over. The extremist rant that is coming out of the NRA is appalling. Some of it borders on terroristic threats ("Your time is running out" goes one ad) and slanderous (Oliver North's attacks on the Parkland survivor). Does the insane rhetoric of the gun industry's mouthpieces actually encourage school shootings in some way? Maybe.

What is very likely true is that school shooting encourages

copycats. The copycats would have less chance, or no chance at all to do their

damage, if restrictions on firearms were as reasonable as they are in Japan.

I had an inadvertent chance to debate some right-wing gun nuts on

another website. I was hit with the typical conservative rhetoric: personal

attacks, false analogies, mis-logic and dubious "facts." These were

people I would not trust with water pistols, much less semi-automatic weapons I

thought then. But what I came away remembering was that these people said

nothing about the necessity of possessing assault rifles or any firearms.

Guns are luxury items for most gun owners. America does not need

citizen militias anymore. The language of the 2nd Amendment is as antique as

Beowulf.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Do you know the process to legally own an automatic weapon?

Yes

How about ownership of the GAU-19/B if you have the money? Should they be legal?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If you just cannot just blame the gun then what's the harm in getting any gun we want?

First, it would be **great if you bothered to correctly quote me.* What I actually said was "you cannot just blame the gun and expect the rest of the problems to go away". But if you leave off that last part, you can just paint me as a stereotypical gun owner that doesn't see any problem and just wants you to keep your dirty mits off of my guns. What you continue to ignore is that I acknowledge that there's a problem, but I am also realistic enough to know that guns aren't the only problem and that guns are not going to ever go away in American society. Since I am able to realize that, I can see that there are other much deeper factors to blame besides the gun that actually can be addressed that typical anti-gun nuts would rather turn a blind eye to because they cannot see past the big, scary, black gun that they *(you) feel no one should be able to own.

and would have done a lot more damage with a semi-auto. Semi auto bullets do a lot more damage to the body than handguns.

There you go again, continue to ignore the fact that you are screaming for one type of weapon to be banned without even mentioning controlling the weapon that was actually used. 'But he could've done even more damage...!' So? How do you address the current situation? You haven't said one word on that. Next someone uses a bolt action rifle. What then? Guns aren't going anywhere so how about we use some actual common sense and look at the deeper root cause of the violence?

Mentally ill people can still buy guns if only the doctor knows, including semi autos.

So which part of me saying that we need to address the mental health issue did you not understand? If we work on fixing the mental health issue, then we would be able to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill because we would be able to keep track of who should and shouldn't have a gun. But again, it's easier to ignore this and scream 'BAN GUNS' than actually admit that banning guns wouldn't fix everything. How about we put the effort into helping actual people who need help. I haven't heard you mention that even once.

How about ownership of the GAU-19/B if you have the money? Should they be legal?

Again, wow, you googled the name of a minigun. Color me impressed... Yes, miniguns fall under the law allowing ones manufactured before 1986 to be legal. However, good luck finding one of the few legal ones that made it to market and I hope you have upwards of $400,000 to purchase it. By the way, you keep crying about these 'legal' weapons, but tell me, when was the last time one of these was used in a mass shooting, hell, even used in a crime? Never. So why worry about banning something that has never been used illegally? Why even bring it up?

Oh and by the way, the GAU-19B entered service in 2011, so... illegal. Guess you missed that when you Googled 'random scary minigun name'. Good try though.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Sorry for the wierd formatting. JT seems to have some issues with their html tags.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Semi auto bullets do a lot more damage to the body than handguns.

Wow, how did I miss that little gem... Where did you hear this? First, there is no such thing as 'semi-auto bullets'. Semi-auto is a class of weapon, not ammunition, that covers everything from rifles to, you guessed it, handguns. You keep talking about how you understand the laws but don't even understand the most basic of weapon concepts.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Wow, how did I miss that little gem...

I made one tiny error. Semi auto rifles do a lot more damage (in terms of their much faster bullet velocity) than handguns (semi-auto or otherwise). They destroy body tissue on a much higher level compared to the damage from the bullet from a handgun.

(source for above-physics 101 and what trauma surgeons have observed) this is based on real science. I understand that Trump voters believe in non-Science stuff like the earth is flat. But if someone wants to argue real science (me) vs. voodoo magic (a Trump NRA2A person) then there is no point arguing.

Everything else I said I'm pretty sure I'm 100% correct, but will check to make certain later.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ah the truth comes out. Faced with reasonable arguments, you resort to assumptions and insults. I addressed everything you have brought up with reasonable, thought out counter arguments and your response is 'Well, you're wrong because Trump supporting NRA members are stupid!'.

Well, I hate to break it to you (not really) but I am neither a Trump supporter (although I do respect whomever sits in the office of the President of the USA) nor a member of the NRA (although I can acknowledge that the average NRA member is not an inbred racist). I am just a realistic human being with common sense who can see past knee jerk reactions. I see you are not.

We do agree on one thing, there is no point in arguing with you.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Well, I hate to break it to you (not really) but I am neither a Trump supporter

I never called anyone a Trump supporter.

so... illegal

Isn't that against 2A? How do Americans fight tyranny without these powerful military grade weapons?

So which part of me saying that we need to address the mental health issue did you not understand?

Doctors simply can't report mental illness publicly (just like any other disease). Unless there is intent on crime or it goes through courts. If docs violate this they lose their license. Mentally ill will be able to get guns no matter what unless it's done like the Swiss as you said.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well, against my better judgement, here we go.

I never called anyone a Trump supporter.

I wonder what you meant by this then, when the two of us were the only ones in this discussion...

I understand that Trump voters believe in non-Science stuff like the earth is flat. But if someone wants to argue real science (me) vs. voodoo magic (a Trump NRA2A person)

If that wasn't an attempt at a veiled insult, then you should choose your words much more wisely.

Isn't that against 2A? How do Americans fight tyranny without these powerful military grade weapons?

Where did I ever say we should? You get so fixated on one thing that you get blinders on. I mentioned that in Switzerland they even have military issued weapons at home and have no mass shootings as an example of more guns, even more destructive guns, does not always equal more shootings to counter your simplistic argument of 'ban! ban! ban!'. That does not equate in any way to me saying that we should just be able to own any old weapon we want. That is you 100% putting words in my mouth. I've never even mentioned the 2nd Amendment or 'fighting tyranny'.

Doctors simply can't report mental illness publicly (just like any other disease). Unless there is intent on crime or it goes through courts. If docs violate this they lose their license. Mentally ill will be able to get guns no matter what unless it's done like the Swiss as you said.

Sigh... which is why I keep repeating myself that mental illness is something we need to address! Its like you see that I am against banning AR15s and can't see anything past that.

Now, I am going to spell it out my stance one more time for you.

Guns are not going to be banned. I've been around long enough to know that. They just aren't. Even if laws were to be put into place, there would be nothing but lawsuits stalling them for years, all the while nothing meaningful happens.

We know mental illness has played a huge part in many of the mass shootings and is a huge problem in America. What we can do NOW is we can actually work on more effective mental health treatment and ways to fairly and effectively track it that could have almost immediate benefits to both lessening gun violence and actually getting people help that they desperately need.

Would this solve everything? No of course not. Would it have a more immediate benefit than trying to take millions of guns away from law abiding gun owners? You'd have to be high not to think so.

So which of these options seems the more realistic, beneficial and smarter option? I know which one I would go with.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Guns do not make us safe. They endanger everyone of us.

If the were true former President Obama would not have armed bodyguards protecting him every minute of every day for the rest of his life. It it were true wealthy Hollywood actresses would not protest the average persons right to self defense surrounded by armed guards.

All gun violence is caused by gun owners.

This is plainly false. Many crimes committed in places like Detroit and Baltimore are committed by illegal firearms. This violence is not by the rightful owner.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

ways to fairly and effectively track it

Does that mean once a doctor makes a mental ill diagnosis it should go to an outside database for background checks?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Does that mean once a doctor makes a mental ill diagnosis it should go to an outside database for background checks?

Well gee, I don't know. Maybe we should actually try to figure it out? (Kinda been my point all along in case you missed it...)

Or we could go your route, take everyone's guns away and let the crazy people keep doing what they're doing.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The fact that you keep arguing with me, even though I agree that we have a problem that needs fixing, just shows me that you actually only want to take guns away and not really solve the problem. If tomorrow the government announced a sure-fire plan to stop gun violence without banning AR15s, that would be unacceptable to you.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Kinda been my point all along in case you missed it...

I understand that Trump 2ANRA people don't understand about medical privacy laws and any doctor who does that without an adjudication process will have his or her medical license revoked and sued for malpractice (doctors have confirmed this and will flat out refuse this idea of disclosing patient private information proposed by the NRA). So if someone is arrested and the courts determine there is a concern for mental health and the process goes from there to prohibit gun sales to that person that is one thing (like a domestic violence situation). But if a doctor determines mental illness privately with a patient he or she just can't go out and simply give that information to an outside party. I understand laws themselves are complicated (just like laws of physics which is the reason why AR rifle bullets tear up the body much more than handgun bullets) for the average Trump 2ANRA person. But laws (actual, those of physics, or otherwise) are laws and they can't be argued against.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yes thank you. I understand how medical disclosure laws work. Which again, is why we need to figure out a way to handle it properly so legitimately mentally ill folks can't get their hands on weapons. If you actually knew about Switzerland's strict rules to get a gun permit that you were such a fan of, you would know that local law enforcement can, at their own discretion, speak to a person's psychiatrist before issuing a gun permit. Hmmm. They seem to have figured out how to do it...

But really, I see that you're just fixated on the whole "Trump/2nd Amendment/NRA" thing. I mean, you're still bringing up the whole bullet/semi-auto thing that was you're mistake and blaming it on Trump supporters...

The fact that people downvoted a comment from me that was only an apology for HMTL formatting mistakes in a previous comment goes to show that no one really cares about the issue, they all just want to ban scary guns and anything out of the mouth of a person who doesn't agree is bad. I could've said 'brown puppies are cute' and you people would see 'Kill brown puppies with AR-15s'.

But I know none of this bans AR-15s, so I know it's all pointless to you. It's sad really that people are so closed minded that they refuse to consider viable alternatives that might actually work. But by all means, you keep spitting into the wind trying to ban something that is never going to be banned.

I'll leave you with your own words:

But laws (actual, those of physics, or otherwise) are laws and they can't be argued against.

I'm guessing you didn't think that comment through very well.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Dammit, I typed 'you're' instead of 'your'. Embarassing.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites