Sievierodonetsk falls to Russia after one of war's bloodiest fights

he could declare victory already but he won't

But wouldn't it be great if he did and the Russians could go back home to their families?

@2020hindsights

Yet another example of Putin's aggression. He started the war in Dombas in 2014

No, the plotters of the illegal coup d'etat of Feb.2014 started the war in April 2014 by unleashing ultranationalist and open nazis on the population of Donbass with their slogan "Be Ukrainian or be dead".

they pretty much forced the population to join the liberation groups

The Donbass forces comprise dozens of thousand of troops, something around 80-100.000. Do you really think you can force such a number of people to fight against their will?

Ukraine army are running out of ammunitions, the western aids are a drop in the bucket at best. Russia has overcome the hardest part of the war, the rest is entirely up to how much is Putin's appetite, he could declare victory already but he won't

2020hindsights

Today 02:06 pm JST

Here are a few contradictions.

Ukraine claims 30,000 Russians killed at first the western analyst all agreed, then they said no 15,000 then 10,000 but they all agreed Russian are demoralized and deserting.

Wait where are all the deserters? Ukraine claims only to have less than 1,000 POWs, so where did the deserters go, usually they are taken prisoner.

Then we have the contradiction of killed, 30,000, 15,000, 10,000 doesn't matter if they are not motivated then why such a high death toll ( if we believe the numbers) compared to such a low number of POWs. Either Russians are fighting to the end, Ukraine is executing prisoner or More likely the number of dead is wholly exaggerated by everyone.

Mariupol Azovstal:

Ukraine, western news and experts at first repeated the ukrainians propaganda, no surender, mission complete, withdrawal, then they complain about the 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers not taken prisoner but taken prisoner and not knowing where or how they are

Starting to see a pattern yet?

No?

Ukraine recaptures territory near Kyiv: wait didn't the Russians leave days earlier! Right recapture means walk in after they left.

Ukraine forces push Russia back across the border in Kharkiv region release video of nothing but a group of men with a post in the woods.

Ukraine SBU cheif in the are says it didn't happen, Zelensky fired him ( now he has fired 4 regional SBU cheifs) and right after that claim Russia's military is at the edge of Kharkiv city.

Nothing makes sense but people want to believe what the want will be facts.

Basically most here are using the system:

"Why use facts, when I can use my feelings as facts."

Essentially that is what has been going on.

The west has given Ukraine billions in weapons and Ukraine keeps losing ground and keeps needing more weapons, that should be a clue that things are not going well for Ukraine.

Ukraine, the west and Russia all acknowledge there are now over 10,000 Ukrainian POWs in Russian custody.

If we believe the Ukrainian numbers of less than 1,000 Russia POWs in custody that means Russia have 10 times the POWs.

Problem?

Russia have been net losing territory when you consider Kyiv. And the small territory that they are gaining now is at a high cost in artillery shells, men and machines:

Only in the minds of people that do not know 1 +1 =2 and cannot count.

Net loss!

Wait how does that work?

Ukraine admits that Russia now controls more than 20% of the country but you claim a net loss.

Wow.

Creative accounting must have been your major in school.

Antiquesaving

2020hindsights

Have you been reading the news since the beginning!

Every week some western analyst says Russia is at its limits, then Russia takes more territory,

Russia have been net losing territory when you consider Kyiv. And the small territory that they are gaining now is at a high cost in artillery shells, men and machines:

But the “creeping” advances are dependent almost entirely on the expenditure of vast quantities of ammunition, notably artillery shells, which are being fired at a rate almost no military in the world would be able to sustain for long, said the senior Western official.

Russia, meanwhile, is continuing to suffer heavy losses of equipment and men, calling into question how much longer it can remain on the attack, the official said.

Western news and so-called experts are constantly contradicting themselves.

No they aren't.

So I wouldn't take what is in that article to the bank it may end up like the rest more wishful thinking than fact.

For sure it's an analysis that could be wrong. But the sources are credible. And they are also echoed by some Russian commentators.

How long will the support last?

Hopefully until the enemy goes home. Then we can get to work rebuilding and strengthening Ukraine.

Leaders of the Group of Seven rich democracies are expected to demonstrate long-term support for Ukraine and discuss how to tighten the screws on Russia at a three day summit in Germany starting on Sunday.

How long will the support last?

2020hindsights

Today 09:23 am JST

Have you been reading the news since the beginning!

Every week some western analyst says Russia is at its limits, then Russia takes more territory,

Every week they say Russia is on the verge of collapse, then we see the sky high (for a long time even before the war) Russian inflation actually going down while the western inflation is going up up up along with gas prices, food prices, interest rates, etc...

If the western analyst/experts been corrected even one up to now the war would be over.

Here are facts.

Russia is nearly self-sufficiency in everything from energy, food and weapons.but western "experts" said sanctions are going to do something ( didn't work on Cuba and Iran).

The west claims lo moral high desertion from Russian troops.

But here are contradictions, Ukraine claims 30,000 killed (USA and UK put it at under 15,000) but only fewer than 1,000 POWs ( in contrast Russia has over 10,000 Ukrainian POWs), so where are the supposed deserters? If moral is low why are the Russians fighting to the death) that is the only explanation for no surrender and high mortality if we believe the ukrainians or western experts) .

Western news and so-called experts are constantly contradicting themselves.

So I wouldn't take what is in that article to the bank it may end up like the rest more wishful thinking than fact.

Antiquesaving

The Avenger

The Washington Post and other outlets are reporting that military analysts are predicting that Russia will reach the limit of its combat capacity in the coming months

I think we have heard that one before and again before and again before....... and each time another city in the south east falls to Russian forces.

I haven't heard it before. We are talking about them running out of men and machinery within a few months:

Russia will soon exhaust its combat capabilities, Western assessments predict

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/25/ukraine-russia-balance-of-forces/

Why shouldn't ethnic Russians be allowed to live as Russians in Ukraine?

Simple it goes against the long wanted dream of an ethnicly cleaned Ukraine, on started in the 1930s by Stepan Bandera and the OUN backed up by their paramilitary wing the UPA and reaffirmed by laws in 2015 when these groups where confirmed as national heroes in Ukraine.

Let me give you an idea of what these National heroes were fighting for!

Excerpt from the OUN UPA platform:

ethnic Russians, Poles, and Jews that are hostile to us are to be destroyed in struggle, particularly those opposing the regime, by means of: deporting them to their own lands, eradicating their intelligentsia, which is not to be admitted to any governmental positions, and overall preventing any creation of this intelligentsia (e.g. access to education etc)... Jews are to be isolated, removed from governmental positions in order to prevent sabotage... Those who are deemed necessary may only work under strict supervision and removed from their positions for slightest misconduct... Jewish assimilation is not possible.

Remember folks the present Ukrainian government made those that wrote the above and killed to try and get e ethnicly cleaned Ukraine heroes in 2015!

Does that sound like a regime willing to accept ethnic diversity?

It is interesting how when the US or one of its friends forces its way into a city, it's never described as a 'wasteland' even when they literally bombed every single building.

But somehow when someone else ousts an American backed force from a city, it is always described as a wasteland even when the majority of the damage is restricted to one sector of the city, and the city municipal workers are out doing mostly routine maintenance within days, waiting for demining crews to clear that sector of explosives and private contractors to bid on the job of cleaning up and repairing the damage.

Mr Kipling

Meanwhile, Russia needs to achieve their updated directives within a few months because they have almost run out of equipment and men.

Only in the imaginations of those in Kiev and their support crew.

And US and British intelligence:

Small shifts in territorial control matter less than the overall balance of forces, which analysts say could shift back in favor of Ukraine in the coming months

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/25/ukraine-russia-balance-of-forces/

i don’t support any corrupt government.

please show me a country whose government officials aren’t corrupt.

Ukraine may be corrupt

well that was a quick pivot.

so you don’t support Ukraine??

@PTownsend

did Russia offer citizenship to the disaffected Russian speakers before providing them with weaponry, did those Russians living in Ukraine but unhappy with their situation seek to move to Russia before the killings began?

I've read many of your posts over the years denouncing the far-right ideology of ethno-nationalism in America. Why are you now endorsing ethno-nationalism and the self-deportation of minorities in multi-ethnic Ukraine? It's a bit inconsistent, isn't it?

Why shouldn't ethnic Russians be allowed to live as Russians in Ukraine? Why shouldn't they be allowed to send their children to Russian schools, read exclusively Russian language media, and receive Russian language government services in majority Russian areas? It's one thing to denounce Russia's use of force, but Ukraine's treatment of the Russia minority is completely indefensible. None of these discriminatory policies will be allowed by the EU if Ukraine ever becomes a member.

did Russia offer citizenship to the disaffected Russian speakers

Yes. All Russian speakers born in former soviet territories are eligible for Russian citizenship. Millions of Ukrainians live in Russia but most obviously want to stay in their homes in Ukraine. Ukraine also bans dual citizenship.

The Avenger

Today 08:03 am JST

The Washington Post and other outlets are reporting that military analysts are predicting that Russia will reach the limit of its combat capacity in the coming months

I think we have heard that one before and again before and again before....... and each time another city in the south east falls to Russian forces.

As for your why do "pro-Russian" nice try.

The facts are even the leaders of France and Germany say one thing and then "hint" drop a " misunderstood" comment about "reaching a compromise" and openly pushing for talks to get an end to the fighting.

So please don't act like the western allies are not going to eventually give in and make Ukraine sign an agreement it won't like.

2020Hindsights.....

Meanwhile, Russia needs to achieve their updated directives within a few months because they have almost run out of equipment and men.

Only in the imaginations of those in Kiev and their support crew.

As Europe's biggest land conflict since World War Two entered its fifth month, Russian missiles also rained down on western, northern and southern parts of the country.

Really, looking at the stats, we actually don't know or at least tell us how they are determining this.

The war in Bosnia lasted 3 years, involved between 300,000 and 500,000 combatants and cost the lives of over 100,0000 mostly civilians.

Yes this is a serious conflict but let's not jump ahead ignoring facts again.

Opps, Donbass will NEVER be part of Russia, or Ukraine.

The Washington Post and other outlets are reporting that military analysts are predicting that Russia will reach the limit of its combat capacity in the coming months, and that the flow of weapons from democratic countries will enable Ukraine to stop Russia's slow advance, and begin to push the invaders back.

This would be why the pro-Russia commenters are pushing "negotiations" and "compromise". Russia will want a ceasefire when it reaches its maximum line of control so that it does not get pushed back by the new weapons coming in.

Too,you do not know my reason for criticizing the government of Ukraine and your reason for supporting the government of Ukraine,yes Putin war has done some horrible thing to people in Ukraine,he has done horrible thing outside Russia,with not been held accountable by some of the same leaders, that are now criticizing him,Putin do not have enough money to buy my loyalty,like he buys Ukrainian loyalty in Ukraine

They'll be back! But first order of the day is to silence all that artillery noise coming from the East. Their time is gonna come soon and then it's, CHECK!

Ukrainian have an incentive to lie 

to have others support them,being dishonest to people,

Russia has an incentive to lie, to have its people support them, being dishonest to its people

there, fixed it for you

This is how propaganda works

no, people who post supporting comments for evil regimes, who invade peaceful countries & start murdering & raping their citizens, is how propaganda works

Using GPS Coordinates,you can control the battlefield,by dictating target that will be hit, air,road,rail ,you shape the battlefield 90 percentage of your control

War is fluid, you have to withdraw to be in a better position sometimes. Russian troops are continuously used until they are military useless. Ukrainian troops rotate. Stop with the Azov thing, what was left of them are now prisoner’s. The Ukrainian defence force is not Azov, it was 1 battalion among 100s.

They have pulled back, so what, as the history of this conflict unfolds it’s obvious the Ukrainian forces are using the Soviet sorry Russian playbook against them. The city’s were destroyed in the process of being “Liberated” so what’s to fight for. The rail, road network’s destroyed, bridges destroyed. It will take weeks to get them operational.

If that’s a victory at that cost to Russia, I wish them many more.

PT ,the first casualty of war is the truth, Ukrainian have an incentive to lie ,to have others support them,being dishonest to people,that support is just as deceiving

Mr Kipling,

most of the defenders (Ukrainian, of course), probably all made it out of Sievierodonetsk.

Retreating to better defense positions with possible counter attacks in the (near) future.

Russia, on the other hand, keeps on shelling Ukraine even from Belarus.

Destroying infrastructure, killing civilians, well, as always.

I hope and wish this insane war will end soon, with a victory for Ukraine.

Russia denies targeting civilians. Kyiv and the West say Russian forces have committed war crimes against civilians

Curious how the Kremlin will report, or whether they even will do research and release a report, saying civilians have died, or do they actually expect people to believe it was the Ukrainian military missiles and aircraft leveling residential areas, and Ukrainian ground forces slaughtering and raping their fellow citizens. Warmongering Putin had his military invaded Ukraine using a 'denazification' justification for doing so, 'denazification is the Russian equivalent of Bush and Blair's 'Hussein has WMDs'.

Truth is now hard to find, both sides must have lots of reasons to distort facts, but the reality is Russia invaded Ukraine and the carnage began. Russsia also funded separatist movements which helped get the killings underway. Russian sources, did Russia offer citizenship to the disaffected Russian speakers before providing them with weaponry, did those Russians living in Ukraine but unhappy with their situation seek to move to Russia before the killings began? And speaking of the disaffected populations, some have been relocated to Russia, how are they doing there?

Mr Kipling

Russia now controls all roads and supply lines leading to Lysychansk. The Ukrainian forces there will have three options, escape leaving their heavy weaponry, surrender or die.

I think most of them have already retreated.

Meanwhile, Russia needs to achieve their updated directives within a few months because they have almost run out of equipment and men.

The governor of Lviv region in western Ukraine said six missiles were fired from the Black Sea at a base near the border with Poland. Four hit the target but two were destroyed.

A large volley of Russian missiles on a base near the Poland border? As the "new game changer weapons " arrive through Poland? I wonder what the target was.....

Ukraine called its retreat from the city a "tactical withdrawal" to fight from higher ground in Lysychansk on the opposite bank of the Siverskyi Donets river. Pro-Russian separatists said Moscow's forces were now attacking Lysychansk.

Russia now controls all roads and supply lines leading to Lysychansk. The Ukrainian forces there will have three options, escape leaving their heavy weaponry, surrender or die.