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Crew retakes U.S. ship from Somali pirates; captain still held

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Better than a crap spin article from Christian Monitor go here for a reasonably broad history of Somalia. http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0861179.html

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Simple solution; Arm the crews, its past due.

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A military operation has been carried out and Phillips has been rescued. Three of the pirates were killed; one is in custody.

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Good Jorb:

" http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1120/p25s22-woaf.html "

Yep, pick a well-know islamist apologist to tell you all you need to know about the Somali pirates. Just brilliant.

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[Fisherman from other countries started stealing fish, a staple food in Somalia, in such amounts that it started to have a serious effect on the local food supply. International waste management companies started dumping biowaste(used needles and such) and toxic waste, again effecting the fish and effecting the local food supply. In response locals created patrols that were suppose to scare fisherman and waste dumpers away. Unforunately human nature being what it is, they became greedy and their activities spiraled out of control and turned into what it is today.]

It always starts so innocently. I'm starting to feel sorry for these pirates the poor misunderstood fellows they are. Only fighting for their fellow countrymen. True patriots in the African sense.

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http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1120/p25s22-woaf.html

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That is what I am stating as well. I could give a rats ass where the profits are going, but don't be mistaken. This is all about making some cash.

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I didn't think Islam had anything to do with it. Somalia has mostly been ruled by warlords. Radical Islam is starting to take hold, but my guess is that has more to do with the internal politics of the country and little to do with this one specific area.

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"All of which you would know if you had done even basic homework on the topic."

Heh, your posting history of islamophobia, and very little else, would be enough for anyone.

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Icingdeath:

Did you read the article that I referenced? Part of the piracy income goes directly for support of the islamic jihad.

And no, "jihad" does not mean only suicide bombing. Jihad simply means "struggle" for islam´s victory, which can take all forms; from prosyletizing to political activism to piracy to terrorism. "Martyrdom" is only one extreme form.

All of which you would know if you had done even basic homework on the topic.

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I never said I was a scholar, but I am just calling it like I see it. Calling a spade a spade is what I am doing. There is a huge difference between these guys and the guys strapping themselves with explosives and running into the middle of a busy intersection. The more I read your posts, however, the more I see it as Madverts does; a rant against Islam. And some of you wondered why the president had to reiterate that we are not at war with Islam itself.

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One day down the local mosque, he meets a "kind" uncle who ends convincing him to become a pirate...What is difference between terrorism and piracy in this case? Perhaps the US/Allies should declare these pirate groups to be terrorist organizations?

The difference between the terrorist and the pirate in this case is that pirates didn't start from being indoctrined with radicalization at the local mosque. Pricary in Somalia started because they lack a navy and/or coast guard and the international community took advantage of it. Fisherman from other countries started stealing fish, a staple food in Somalia, in such amounts that it started to have a serious effect on the local food supply. International waste management companies started dumping biowaste(used needles and such) and toxic waste, again effecting the fish and effecting the local food supply. In response locals created patrols that were suppose to scare fisherman and waste dumpers away. Unforunately human nature being what it is, they became greedy and their activities spiraled out of control and turned into what it is today.

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Yeah, people often talk about how wide open the ocean is....but the waters near Somalia aren't. Why not just concentrate the ships there?

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"Just cut the crxp and declare a free fire zone beyond 5km off the Somali coast. Just an idea, but....."

1 km would suffice. There can be no negotiations here methinks. Snuff the bastards.

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Banditry vs. Terrorism

Disguntled youth one grows up in abject poverty on the West Bank. One day the Israelis come around and bulldoze his house. He doesn't have a country, and has few employment options. One day down the local mosque, he meets a "kind" cleric who ends up convincing him to join a jihad. He goes off to Iraq as one of OBLs boys and is treated accordingly by coalition forces.

Disguntled youth two grows up in abject poverty in what used to be Somalia. When he was small, the US hosed down his house in Mogadishu. He doesn't have a country, and has few employment options. One day down the local mosque, he meets a "kind" uncle who ends convincing him to become a pirate. He floats around the Horn of Africa and is treated accordingly by coalition naval forces.

Question - What is difference between terrorism and piracy in this case? Perhaps the US/Allies should declare these pirate groups to be terrorist organizations? Just cut the crxp and declare a free fire zone beyond 5km off the Somali coast. Just an idea, but.....

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willi, only you could turn this into a rant about islam...

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If you read in older pre-PC sources, you will find the Barbary pirates identified as Mohammedans, usually working for the Sultanates, and taking slaves according to Mohammedan prescript, allowing slaves to free if they converted to Mohammedanism.

It is only modern PC that blanks out the ideology and turns jihadists into "fighters".

And no, monetary gain from plundering the unbelievers is absolutely not a contradiction to jihad; to the contrary.

Neither then, nor today.

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IcingDeath:

holding hostages and demanding ransom is detailed in the Haddiths. There is absolutely no contradiction there. You are not the scholar to tell the jihadists what jihad is.

Here is related report for you: http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSLO00572320080824

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That is because it is just banditry. If it was Jihad, they would be blowing the tankers out of the water. Instead, they are holding hostages and demanding ransom.

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@WilliB, What does it matter where I got the quote. The facts are history. Where did you get the idea that the Barbary pirates, or these modern pirates are doing this for religion? That was, and this is piracy for monetary gain.

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The navy should create a "bait ship", get a tanker or something make it look all innocent on the outside, but inside you have a whole team of navy seals or marines ready to surprise the pirates.

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Besides, I doubt they knew about the ownership of the supertanker.

Then why assume that it's jihad, if they'll attack anything that floats? Sounds more like simple banditry to me.

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techall:

" "The Barbary Pirates: Group of fighters " "

Isn´t it telling that whereever you looked this up (Wiki?) the islamic context is blanked out, turning jihadists into "fighters"? The barbary pirates were conducting jihad on the seas, according to mohammetan rules (killing kuffar males unless they converted to islam, and taking kuffar women as slaves).

This was not a secret, until political correctness came a long. Truly Orwellian.

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cleo:

" Are the pirates fighting an Islamic jihad? Last I heard they were equal opportunity brigands, "

The reason you "hear" that is because the ignorant Western media blank out the context. Maritime pirace is has a long precendence in the jihad. I suppose you didn´t "hear" about the Barbary Pirates either. Here some more context about the Somali pirates:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194284.php

" quite as happy taking Muslim vessels hostage as non-Muslim. "

Plundering a rich Saudi merchant is not necessarily a contradiction. Consider it an enforced Zakhat. Besides, I doubt they knew about the ownership of the supertanker. You wouldn´t know it from looking at the flag of convenience and Philippine crew.

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I see a whole new market for the weapon industry, Pirate prevention, get your own avenger cannon perfect for those pesky pirates.

anyway i see a story in this, i have to write a movie script, Maybe DMX can play the leader of the pirates andJohnny depp the self sacrificing Captain "pirates of the indian ocean!"

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AirMarshals and now SeaMarshals. Sounds like a good job for Blackwater or whatever they call themselves. It's nice that they got this done peacefully but the Captain still had to be sacrificed. It's not the result that everything turned out well here that its all ok now. It's that there is this problem in the first place. These people are thieves in the first degree. I say let a Blackwater type company contract small security crews on these large ships and have no mercy on them. Of course there would be liberals on here against such a thing. Heavens forbid they actually shoot at these poor innocent pirates.

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@Timeborder: Glad to see you quoted TR this time. He was Pres. in 1905. see my post above.

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What is the old saying about "walk silently and carry a big stick?" Instead of dreaming about arming US merchant ships (and all the headaches that involves), a more subtle approach is in order. One would assume that these pirates board a ship by way of ladders over the side (possibly even part of the ship's superstructure). Just plug these ladders directly into the ship's primary generator and watch the fun.

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I agree, small arms aren't very effective against AK-47s and RPGs. So, get bigger guns! If the pirates were following the ship for a few hours before boarding that would have given the crew ample time to set up and load a 50cal, draw a bead on the bad guys and turn them into chum for the sharks!

International water! Dead pirates ... who's going to complain (that we actually care about anyway?)

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Good for the crew. Good job! Wonderful! But unarmed? What the hell are they doing in pirate infested waters without weapons?

Various maritime and international laws prevent them from doing so. For example a ship sailing from the UK where private arms are banned going to Japan where private arms are banned, how i the crew supposed to be armed, its a catch-22. Also having small arms, shotguns etc isn't much help against pirates with Ak-47's and RPGs.

I really don't know what the answer is to the pirate problems, navy ships and escorts are a bandaid to the problem. You're going to need somesort of ground operations sometime in the future, if not to hit their bases of operations (if any).

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The Barbary Pirates: Group of fighters who attacked American ships along the Barbary Coast of northern Africa at in the first few years of the 19th Century. They were members of a handful of African states who at first signed treaties with the United States in which they promised to stop attacking American ships. However, they broke those treaties. The U.S. fought back with force. Both the Navy and the Marines won big victories, including one at Tripoli in 1805.

Teddy Rosevelt, we need you!!!

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Poor misunderstood pirates

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The Somalis have a right to collect taxes for the invasion of the territory, overfishing and dumping of toxic waste in their country. These pirates need training, uniforms and helicopters etc, then it can be done in a more civilized way to the benefit of the nation.

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Morons! Sounds like Get Smart was their leader. There goes the insurance. Should the captain die these idiots will be accountable. Even if the captain comes out of it safely there'll be a lot of heads to roll.

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"Superpower Warriors Overcome Peasants."

I thought the story was about a bunch of unarmed mechant sailors overcoming a coked up bunch of thugs armed with rocket launchers and AK-47's, thanks for putting the liberal clarification to it timor...... Did some upstart yankee steal your milk money when you were a child?

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I agree Timor, I am disappointed that those Americans didn't roll over and play dead like the other crews. How arrogant of them!

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Maybe the headline should read "Superpower Warriors Overcome Peasants." Really, I am rather shocked by all the chest-beating here, it makes me wonder if there will be a welcome home parade for these chaps or a commerative movie like "Blackhawk Down" Let's hear one for the Gipper and all that. What a wonderful day for American history.

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The pirates don´t respect life

I thought their modus operandi was to take hostages for ransom? Reuters says they usually treat their hostages well.

Mind you, they get paradise and virgins, if the Americans kill them

Are the pirates fighting an Islamic jihad? Last I heard they were equal opportunity brigands, quite as happy taking Muslim vessels hostage as non-Muslim.

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Aye, the captain did do an honorable deed. Not many men would do such in that situation, sad to say.

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The Captain may have saved his men from further danger. My hat's off to him. Now let's see him get saved. < :-)

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Yeah, i still think a 50cal is to big. Not above blowing them outta the water though.

And bombing Somalia is probably the stupidest idea yet. You gonna bomb millions to get rid of a few thousand pirates? Seriously? Well, what do I expect from a bunch of warmongering right wingers.

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USNinjapan2:

" The unfortunate pirates will be surrounded by American warships shortly and any negotiating at that point won't be much more than a formality. "

Are you sure? The pirates don´t respect life, including their own. (Mind you, they get paradise and virgins, if the Americans kill them.) The Americans on the other hand, try everything to preserve life; mainly that of the hostage, but also that of the pirates.

So where does that leave all that fancy military hardware? I chances are the pirates still get some reward out of it.

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unarmed American crew wrested control of their U.S.-flagged cargo ship from Somali pirates

Good for the crew. Good job! Wonderful! But unarmed? What the hell are they doing in pirate infested waters without weapons?

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" “We had a pirate, we took him for 12 hours,” Quinn said. “We returned him, but they didn’t return the captain.” "

What do they expect from muslim pirates? Honoring a promise given to stinking kuffars? The crew has balls, but is still naive about the nature of the Barbara pirates.

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Somalia is a mess and America needs to bomb the hell out of it. We are wasting our time in Iraq when we could have a good time, blowing the hell out of these pirates to teach them to respect the USA!!!

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Still think a .50cal is to big to take of these people?

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Latest update is that a US Navy P-3 has already located the lifeboat with the pirates and the American captain on board. The unfortunate pirates will be surrounded by American warships shortly and any negotiating at that point won't be much more than a formality. Can't confirm 100% but from what I'm hearing/reading the American crew after realizing that they couldn't fend off the boarding pirates disabled the ship's propulsion system rendering her inoperable and retreated to saferooms where the pirates couldn't get to them. Evidently the captain also went with the pirates voluntarily after convincing them that their attempt to take over the ship was a lost cause. BZ to the American crew and my hats off to the ship's master, Captain Phillips.

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I just hope the first Navy to catch up with them blows a hole in their ship. Let it sink with all of them on it. Only rescue the hostage from the water. Let the pirates fend for themselves.

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Can't we locate where these pirates are operating out of and drop them a little visit?

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President Barack Obama was following the situation closely, foreign policy adviser Denis McDonough said.

Sh**, we're all following the situation closely!

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well i'll be damned. looks like the pirates still have the ships captain.

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IcingDeath: They got it, and gave it right back. :-D

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unscrejects: No need to worry, they took the ship back.

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Sweet!! Now thats what I am talkin bout!

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Looks like the crew has retaken the ship.

USA! USA!

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P.S. I am just looking forward to watching Sean Hannity tonight. If Laura Ingram had fun with this, that dead horse beating loud mouth is gonna have a field day.

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I just heard about this driving to work. I actually heard this on the Laura Ingram show. She was already derailing Obama like it was hiks direct fault.

We've seen how other countries have dealt with this. I am interested how the United States will deal with hostage takers. Except for a couple of exceptions, the US doesn't negotiate with hostage takers. < :-)(

Really? Now, maybe I am an idiot who just doesn't get it, but can anyone else explain to me how this is Obama's fault? I mean, from what I have heard, these guys got plenty of warnings about the region they were going into and were even offered military escort. And they still wandered deep into pirate territory unguarded. What the hell did they think would happen? Did they honestly believe that because it was an american ship that the pirates would back off? Me thinks that this is a highly arrogant view point. It isn't like Americans haven't been captured and taken hostage before. To me, it sounds like they were just asking for it. And they got it.

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She's not a US Navy transport.

True. But I suspect that she's prevously been under charter to the MSC. Additionally, I suspect she's a container ship capable of 30k which I didn't think the pirates would target.

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Yeah, I heard about this too this morning. I nearly fell on the floor laughing when the Anchor said that the French president is waiting for a ransom demand so he can go on about his business.

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I just heard about this driving to work. I actually heard this on the Laura Ingram show. She was already derailing Obama like it was hiks direct fault.

We've seen how other countries have dealt with this. I am interested how the United States will deal with hostage takers. Except for a couple of exceptions, the US doesn't negotiate with hostage takers. < :-)(

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Add Somalia to the Obama administration's list, The Axis of Clenched Fists.

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unscrejects

She's not a US Navy transport.

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I don't like this - 20 Americans? A US navy transporter? So where are those gung ho posters that said this would never happen to an American flagged ship?

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