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Supporters defend Trump in wake of tax revelations

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Trump supporters, look at your wife and daughters and say I am voting for trump. Because in doing so you are asking own wife and daughter to allow any sexual predator to sexually assault them because you being a father and husband and protector, see no wrong in any men sexually assaulting girls or women. Here you all are arguing about the tax this scab on a pox hidden whore of a person if one can refer to trump as a person. Locker room talk. Bull shite, if any man who would find that kind of talk as men banter is not a real man but a leech on the opposite sex.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So, re the topic article, are the Democrats proposing that loss carryovers be eliminated from the tax systems?

ANY Democrats? Let alone Hillary?

Because I definitely haven't heard that Hillary is proposing that. Especially after declaring her own loss of around $700K one year.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I just watch the latest episode of "the live and the unbelievable". Trump has just fronted the media before the debate with 4 women , 2 either side of him. One stating that trump is not like Hilary. Another women just stated that Bill raped her. and another just said she cry when Trump repeats let make America great again. Like where is this farm that produce these people ? The strangest media confernces I have ever seen. It is just 3 hour away from the Final Episode of " live and Unbelievable". Has the sand of hour glass Etc.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

My guess is that most of you have never owned a business or have been in a position to plan or prepare taxes within the USA. If you have any of those experience, then your perspective will be quite supportive of Trump.

All the books written about becoming rich and wealthy first teach you how NOT to pay taxes.

All business manuals teach one to pay only for what was justifiable and of the quality and quantity which produces the results required and agreed upon. That is called accountability and responsibility.

Ideals such as "fairness" and "equality" which describe "sameness" does not play a role in business or in politics or even in sports for that matter. Every one is different, every activity is different, every situation is different, very everything is different and nothing is the same or equal no matter how one figures it. Nothing is the same or fair in life from the very instant we are born. The goals is to be better and get the most and win or achieve a goal. The activity is "competition".

There is however, bad and good "behavior" or action and activities in the course of process of doing or running a business or a campaign.

That too is not the same, equal or fair, for everyone. Clinton has more money and political experience and clout than Trump. Trump has more business savvy than Clinton.

The election is for someone to "run" (operation-coordinate) a country as a "leader" (administration-decision making).

Here... the key is in the "ability" (physical, mental, emotional, etc.) and the "method" (reliability, accountability, leadership skills, etc.)as well as the "intentions" (values and direction/goals) of that leader that will make a difference.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Picking and choosing from the menu and blaming others for doing their own picking and choosing: hypocritical.

Ya know, I think people are going to take the risk of being hypocritical, first because Trump as a presidential candidate is open to criticism for his conduct - by running, he is submitting himself to public and electoral opinion - and second, because they're not really going to see the moral equivalence between what they do (claiming welfare, say, or a small tax credit) and what Trump does - using a 915 million dollar loss as a way to wriggle out of paying income tax that he can well afford, while criticising people with rather more modest horizons: "You do have a large percentage of people not paying taxes. You do have a large percentage of people that feel they're entitled".

People will look at his record of swindling his contractors, and his record of swindling his charity, and such of his record as was leaked by the New York Times, which shows nothing good, and will wonder who and what this swindler is hiding in those unreleased tax returns.

And because most of us aren't swindlers, it's a question we can ask with a clean conscience.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Trump pays his taxes, too, or he'd be in jail, not on the campaign trail. Audits of his returns, if failed, have been negotiated or whatever.

Notwithstanding the NYT jumping the gun on making theory out of three pages out of 'hundreds' of pages of Trump's one return from years ago.

As I mentioned in the other post (somewhat), anyone who's deducted anything (including mortgage, loss, loss carryover, labor cost to business, services cost for business, claiming wholesale prices for items not resold, etc. etc.) or who's paid at any bracket lower than the maximum bracket, or has accepted tax credits or welfare payments or any government payments whatsoever (salary, contract, etc., local, state or federal), hired accountants to maximize tax strategies or tried to strategize on their own ... IS being hypocritical in criticizing someone else who does any of the same. Picking and choosing from the menu and blaming others for doing their own picking and choosing: hypocritical.

It'd be nice if he proposes a flat tax once he gets into office. With service hours in lieu of, for those without earnings, or for those who want to trade service for tax bills.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Oh, yeah, I forgot Strangerland. What, your business never deducted a loss or a loss carryover?

In all honesty, no. We've been fortunate enough to not have any.

But I'm irrelevant to the matter. I pay my taxes, as do both my companies. I'm not the hypocrite criticizing non-tax payers, while not paying taxes myself. And I'm also not running a campaign to become president, telling the people I'll reform taxes for them, with no intention of doing so.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh, yeah, I forgot Strangerland. What, your business never deducted a loss or a loss carryover?

If you never have, why not double down on even MORE altruism, donate double taxes to the government and advertise it on your website?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So Hillary (definitely), the NY Times (definitely), and probably almost every media outlet and many or even most of the politicians criticizing Trump on this do the same thing in their tax returns, and they're still criticizing?

Trump himself criticized it, before it was found out he is doing it. So it just shows his hypocrisy.

On top of that, it just shows that he has no motivation to change the tax laws - why would he, a person who has shown that he prioritizes himself over America, change the laws so that he and his family make less money?

The Strumpets are sheep praising the wolf who says he's going to eat them, as a straight talker.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Trump didn't even do his taxes, his accountants do, accountant Mitnick was on CNN today being interviewed about it. Should he tell them to back off because Fadamor might not like it? Pay an extra billion he doesn't have to?

Failing to take advantage of all available tax strategies is not immoral.

Is the mortgage deduction immoral?

How about progressive tax brackets? By your theory wouldn't it be immoral for some people to pay 10 percent or zero percent or negative percent when others are paying 40 percent? Should they volunteer for the maximum tax bracket?

Should we ban TurboTax and tax accountants and let the IRS calculate your taxes and present you the bill, to their benefit?

Don't know if I saw it on JT or elsewhere, but someone made the point that with loss deductions the government fairly shares in losses as well as gains.

How about the $84K foreign income exclusion? Are you asking overseas US citizens (including some JT posters) to give that up, because it's immoral?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So Hillary (definitely), the NY Times (definitely), and probably almost every media outlet and many or even most of the politicians criticizing Trump on this do the same thing in their tax returns, and they're still criticizing?

All corporations have had years where they've greatly reduced or even eliminated the taxes paid in a year. I remember General Electric making headlines one year for not paying taxes after a large depreciation of capital rendered their assessed tax for the year at $0. The key here is the tax-free period is only for that year. They didn't receive just shy of two decades-worth of tax-free years like Trump has. THAT's where the criticism lies. Even though he did it legally, it was a loophole designed only for real estate moguls to take advantage of. 99.9% of the American public would never be able to take advantage of that benefit. Never mind "the 1%"! Trump is taking advantage of perks available to only the "POINT 1%"!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So Hillary (definitely), the NY Times (definitely), and probably almost every media outlet and many or even most of the politicians criticizing Trump on this do the same thing in their tax returns, and they're still criticizing?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Strangerland - yes indeed, I meant Republicans in the first instance.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The most embarrassing thing for the Republican Party regarding this whole Trump debacle is the length some Democrats will go to to defend him

I think you got that backwards.

if there is anything I give the GOP credit for is holding the line and to never give in to principles.

Pardon?

I think he meant 'never give in to morality'. They never allow morals to guide their direction.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Trump lies to everyone else. He's just never had the opportunity to lie to the FBI or jeopardize national security"

Yet.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The most embarrassing thing for the Republican Party regarding this whole Trump debacle is the length some Democrats will go to to defend him, not least on here. If it was Abe losing money and dodging taxes, those very same peole would be tearing him to shreds. But no, Trump's a Republican so he must be defended at all costs.

Dumb and dumber.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

As far as I can tell, this is a HUGE distraction from Clinton`s ILLEGAL 33,000 BleachBit criminal act. comon everything that comes out of Trumps mouth is a distraction of his own making. The FBI found no wrongdoings in Clintons email saga, this topic is dead, the distraction is the Republicans that continue to flog this dead horse. Time to move on to something that may produce results, like Bill Clintons affair, even though hes not even running for POTUS. "stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." — Albert Einstein

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm pretty sure you meant to say anything else.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

if there is anything I give the GOP credit for is holding the line and to never give in to principles.

I'm pretty sure you meant to say something else.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

if there is anything I give the GOP credit for is holding the line and to never give in to principles.

Pardon?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

This is ironic. "They did everything they could to make him a failure in case he wouldn't meet in the middle".

Obama did that to himself. Clinton did. I have a lot more respect for Clinton in the sense that, in his second term, he put the country first before ideology. Obama is not Clinton and Obama wasn't about to go to the middle.

Blaming the president for doing exactly what they did, which is made especially ironic considering he actually did try to meet in the middle, but they were angry because he wouldn't do exactly what they wanted.

Yes, I do blame Obama for not meeting in the middle on issues.

Sorry Bass, but on this one you're just plain wrong. The people blamed the Republicans after they shut down the country, and rightfully so.

The people can blame whomever they want. As long as the GOP held their position on the issues that mattered, that was vindication enough. I was hard on Clinton and extremely critical of him in his first term, he was as bad as Obama in the beginning, but in the end, became a decent president, despite his inability to keep his hands to himself.

The problems of the past eight years have been because of the non-patriotic actions of the Republicans who were bitter because there was a democratic president, and weren't willing to work with him at all.

Because this president was defiant and unwilling to meet in the middle and if there is anything I give the GOP credit for is holding the line and to never give in to principles.

and the fact that Trump and his ilk can never admit they are wrong means they believe they are infallible. Always a group to keep an eye on, and always away from real power.

Really? When in 8 years has Obama ever....oh, I forgot, he is the creator of everything. How could he or Hillary ever be wrong on anything, they are the only perfect people to have ever been created and to walk this earth. LMAO! You guys crack me up!!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

looks like Trump is the better choice!

Please give us the supposedly positive spin. What is good about Trump specifically? Why would he be a good president specifically?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"Trump lies to everyone else. He's just never had the opportunity to lie to the FBI or jeopardize national security"

So, here's our choice: Hillary Clinton, who HAS lied to the FBI and jeopardized national security, or

Trump, who might, if given the chance.

Hmmm... looks like Trump is the better choice!

And, oh, my, check this out:

"WIKILEAKS LATEST: Tweets Hillary Clinton Wanted to Drone Julian Assange and Silence WikiLeaks" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7Q1XKu8DXQ

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Last time I checked, though, Trump didn't... jeopardize national security

Watch that change quickly with a few tweets if he becomes president.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Last time I checked, though, Trump didn't lie to the FBI or jeopardize national security like your candidate Hillary Clinton did.

Trump lies to everyone else. He's just never had the opportunity to lie to the FBI or jeopardize national security -- although his dealings with Russia certainly aren't fully exposed yet.

You really think he'll come forth with the truth for the first time in his life?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

yabitsOCT. 04, 2016 - 02:44AM JST

The fact that you try to pin their wrongdoing on ALL Democrats is telling. So much for being fair and balanced.

Everyone gets tarred with very big brushes in the black and white, us against them fantasy world that certain right-wingers inhabit.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sorry Bass, but on this one you're just plain wrong.

Yes, Strangerland -- and the fact that Trump and his ilk can never admit they are wrong means they believe they are infallible. Always a group to keep an eye on, and always away from real power.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"Earlier you claimed Hillary to be the biggest liar -- however, the very site you pointed me to: Politifact -- clearly shows Trump to be a far bigger liar than Hillary."

All right, yabits, I'll give you that one, Politifact shows trump to tell more lies than Hillary based on the statements they chose to use, lol.

Last time I checked, though, Trump didn't lie to the FBI or jeopardize national security like your candidate Hillary Clinton did.

This is interesting: "Nigel Farage to Trump: Don't take abuse from a Clinton" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYu_8qVERmI

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

As for the things you mentioned, the Republicans' avowed goal from DAY ONE was to try to make America's president a failure. They worked VERY HARD to subvert every one of Obama's programs.

As they should have if you have a president that refuses to meet in the middle OR tells you, it's my way or NO Way

This is ironic. "They did everything they could to make him a failure in case he wouldn't meet in the middle".

Blaming the president for doing exactly what they did, which is made especially ironic considering he actually did try to meet in the middle, but they were angry because he wouldn't do exactly what they wanted.

Sorry Bass, but on this one you're just plain wrong. The people blamed the Republicans after they shut down the country, and rightfully so. The problems of the past eight years have been because of the non-patriotic actions of the Republicans who were bitter because there was a democratic president, and weren't willing to work with him at all.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"The Democrats" -- as a whole -- allowed a Democratic Socialist to run as a Democrat. If there was something wrong done to Bernie, it wasn't by Democrats acting as a whole -- but by a few individual party members who no longer hold their positions. The fact that you try to pin their wrongdoing on ALL Democrats is telling. So much for being fair and balanced.

Yeah and those few were too chicken**** to go against their convictions and decided to roll along and let Bernie take the fall. With friends like that, well....you know the rest. That's the Democratic party, backstabbing all the way. Surprised? Not one bit.

As for the things you mentioned, the Republicans' avowed goal from DAY ONE was to try to make America's president a failure. They worked VERY HARD to subvert every one of Obama's programs.

As they should have if you have a president that refuses to meet in the middle OR tells you, it's my way or NO Way, I don't blame the GOP, I would do the same. Why on Earth would you sign a piece of law into action if you know it is a bad bill. Bill Clinton to his credit in his second term was a president that would go down the middle, for all his faults, as a president, he at least tried to put the people first before ideology, NOT Obama.

You've mentioned the results. Congratulations, Republicans. You Republicans WANTED a failed president.

Sorry, it wasn't the GOP, it was the people that voted for Trump and wanted him. That's the thing about liberals, they seem to forget the people choose their political candidates. It's the Marxism within you guys that keeps making you guys forget.

And now you put up Donald Trump? -- Still laughing?

No, but I do wonder why the Dems would support a liar.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

This is what you get when you sign up for trickle down economic policies. Cutting taxes for people like Trump is supposed to boost the economy, remember?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

He IS a genius. Billionaire. Paid no taxes. Lost a billion. Got away with it.

Now let's see what trick he can pull off in the WH.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If everybody in this country was a (tax) ‘genius,’” the Vermont senator told ABC, “we would not have a country.”

If this were the case, folks in Congress would finally get off their butts and close existing corporate and personal tax loop-holes.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If elected, neither Trump or Clinton will make any change to the loop hole ridden overly complicated tax code.

To be fair, no President in the history of the country has been able to affect the tax code. Congress is the only one that can do it. The President can suggest, encourage, and even threaten Congress, but in the end it's in their control.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yeah Wulf but you'll still be voting Republican ;) you old "independent" you...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Now we know why Trump didn't want to release his tax returns - they would show zero taxes paid over many years. Even though the method used was perfectly legal, the perception of a rich elite using loopholes only available to the rich elite in order to avoid paying taxes for over a decade would reflect very poorly on the person taking advantage of the loopholes.

Exactly, The problem here isn't what is illegal, it is what the governing class (of which Clinton is a member) has made legal. If elected, neither Trump or Clinton will make any change to the loop hole ridden overly complicated tax code. It is the source of their power to hand out favors to favored donors on Wall Street and the big business entities such as the real estate and industry lobbying groups. How do you think Clinton is getting the cash to run unending campaign ads across the country for months leading up to the election?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The main thing that has come out of this disclosure of his old tax return is:

Now we know why Trump didn't want to release his tax returns - they would show zero taxes paid over many years. Even though the method used was perfectly legal, the perception of a rich elite using loopholes only available to the rich elite in order to avoid paying taxes for over a decade would reflect very poorly on the person taking advantage of the loopholes.

Since the revelation, the one thing we HAVEN'T heard from Trump or his Campaign handlers is that as President he would work to close such glaring gifts to real estate brokers - though that's not surprising considering his family benefits greatly from such tax folderol. Indeed, the tax code plans Trump has actually presented to the public would be even MORE favorable to real estate brokers than they currently are. (Contrast this to Clinton's tax proposals which would actually cause a tax "hit" on the Clinton's methods of income in recent years.)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

After what the the Democrats did to Bernie...

"The Democrats" -- as a whole -- allowed a Democratic Socialist to run as a Democrat. If there was something wrong done to Bernie, it wasn't by Democrats acting as a whole -- but by a few individual party members who no longer hold their positions. The fact that you try to pin their wrongdoing on ALL Democrats is telling. So much for being fair and balanced.

As for the things you mentioned, the Republicans' avowed goal from DAY ONE was to try to make America's president a failure. They worked VERY HARD to subvert every one of Obama's programs. You've mentioned the results. Congratulations, Republicans. You Republicans WANTED a failed president.

And now you put up Donald Trump? -- Still laughing?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

After I see one of the "deplorables" try to refute this article -- which is very informative. How Hillary Clinton Learned to Govern: The Democratic nominee would enter the White House with a well-established operating style.

LMAO! After what the the Democrats did to Bernie, you just can't get lower than that. At least on the GOP side, they were direct in their adamant feelings towards Trump.

No, just don't elect him as president.

...Or NOT elect her has president.

Well, considering that the reasons you gave are false and lies, and that America has significantly improved in the past 8 years, yeah, that's exactly what we want.

46 million on food stamps, $10 Trillion in debt and Obama will leave with a deficit, Blacks about 7.6% and for a population that is about 11-13% that's very high, a dwindling Obamacare system that is slowly on its deathbed (thankfully) a more divided country, a country at war, terrorism running amok, stringing of the middle class, a broken public school system, a small and neutered military, a horrible relationship with our enemies a GDP that's 1.8% instead of a cool 3-4%, but yes, the country is in better standing, even though your wallet and your portfolio tell you different. LMAO! Too, too funny!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Can you refute any of these Hillary lies? All false statements involving Hillary Clinton....

Serrano, I fully admit that nearly every politician lies, so "refuting" becomes a lame exercise.

I am more interested in who lies more. Earlier you claimed Hillary to be the biggest liar -- however, the very site you pointed me to: Politifact -- clearly shows Trump to be a far bigger liar than Hillary.

Care to refute that?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Mr. Trump is probably audited every year. If he is following the rules, I don't care what amount is or is not paid.

We are a country of laws/rules. Bad rules lead to situations like this. Politicians made those laws. Mr. Trump probably can't actually fix anything as President. Congress has to take that action. He is an approver-only, but his financial advisors certainly could point out all the loopholes.

Mr. Trump has probably just setup everything so it is a business expense or owned by a company, then makes each of those companies have zero profit. Perfectly legal. It shows that his financial advisors are smart and that he was smart enough to hire them. Nothing more.

This is distasteful to many voters and there will be some who will not vote for him based on this alone.

Ms. Clinton could do the same thing, but has chosen against that - probably only for political reasons. She is certainly smart enough to hire similarly smart financial advisors and has outside earnings enough to avoid paying taxes too.

I try to pay exactly my fair share of taxes based on the tax code and not 1 penny more. THAT is what I expect to happen for everyone.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Gawd, yabits, for anyone naive enough, reading that sappy Atlantic article would have you believing without a doubt that Hillary Clinton is by far the most qualified and pious person ever to seek the office.

Howz about this one? Can you refute any of these Hillary lies?:

"All false statements involving Hillary Clinton"

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

So what next, should we shoot him? Hang him?

No, just don't elect him as president.

in the meantime, we should let Hillary go, even with all the lies, the people that died on her watch, her emails, servers, just let that go, get Trump and let Hillary win because she's a woman, a liberal and she'll give us more of the crap we got for the last 8 years, its that pretty much what you guys want?

Well, considering that the reasons you gave are false and lies, and that America has significantly improved in the past 8 years, yeah, that's exactly what we want.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Trump is a tool, but he did nothing illegal in taking advantage of the tax loopholes Congress provided him over the years. This is Congress' fault rather than Trump's fault. As I've said previously, however, he loses any ability to complain about the government not spending enough in a particular department.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

But now you ask " Why would anything that's happened in the presidential race over the past week be depressing for anyone except Trump supporters?" Meaning Hillary's had a good week...

How would you describe it?

...and you don't dislike Hillary anymore?

That's quite a stretch of the imagination. I suspect it's what you'd prefer to think rather than anything based in reality, somewhat like everything else you write on this topic.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And, yabits, good grief, when are you ever going to admit that your candidate, Hillary Clinton, is the biggest liar and the most corrupt person ever to seek the office?

After I see one of the "deplorables" try to refute this article -- which is very informative. How Hillary Clinton Learned to Govern: The Democratic nominee would enter the White House with a well-established operating style.

source: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/hillary-clinton-first-lady-white-house/502451/

I don't believe that you or those parents'-basement-dwelling YouTubers are up to it, Serrano. Repeat after me: "Madame President."

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Quite the murky claim: Hillary took money from women and children suffering in war torn countries.

I wasn't talking about the children. I was talking about the questionable dignitaries.

It's much clearer when you contract with someone who agrees to pay you for your work and then doesn't. That's quite a bombshell for the average small business, and Trump stiffed hundreds of them.

So what next, should we shoot him? Hang him? What do you want and in the meantime, we should let Hillary go, even with all the lies, the people that died on her watch, her emails, servers, just let that go, get Trump and let Hillary win because she's a woman, a liberal and she'll give us more of the crap we got for the last 8 years, its that pretty much what you guys want? Lol

Yes, he's a man. Some men can be trusted and some can't.

Ok, you don't trust Trump and millions of Americans don't trust Bill, so now what?

And the men who trust Trump can't be relied upon to claim anything trustworthy about anybody. Sheer lies and hatred are what keeps them going.

Oh, but Hillary's FBI protected minions can?

You are projecting again. Actually, it's Trump that is supplying ALL the rope.

To a certain extent, but you guys are slathering up Trump mercilessly and NOT one of you guys are questionable Hillary about anything. So yes, it's a witch hunt. So I don't think Trump should dig in his heels on this.

And you'll see FAR more Trumpasites out there calling for violence against Hillary -- just like they did against the Kenyan Marxist Muslim -- than anything coming from the Democrats. Much of what Trump spouts is tinged with violence, and it seems to only get a bigger roar from his depraved minions. (Yes, Hillary stopped far short by calling them "deplorable.")

Funny, Trump has a problem with women and HIllary has a problem with men, what are they both are going to do? They both make disparaging remarks, so I guess, both need to be scrutinized more.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

This is also informative:

"Judge Jeanine: Do you want political correctness or truth?" /

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBpa-J4waYo

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Matt HartwellOCT. 03, 2016 - 09:57PM JST Logic has no bearing on the thinking of the fanatical. Politics and religion, same same.

Fanatical some.....Insane all.....

The US Republican Party - giving insane people a bad name for over 40 years....

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Sorry, Simon, your two Youtube links were really lame. This one is much better:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVAbUVB_9H0

And, yabits, good grief, when are you ever going to admit that your candidate, Hillary Clinton, is the biggest liar and the most corrupt person ever to seek the office?

This is informative: "Guy Benson on Clinton's 'Basement dwellers' comment " ( Fox )

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

To me, the story is not the use of the tax code to avoid, legally, paying taxes. It is that some "great" businessman can lose $1 billion in one year! That's "genius"?

Logic has no bearing on the thinking of the fanatical. Politics and religion, same same.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

What about the thousands of poor women and children that are suffering from war torn countries where Hillary it seems had no compunction about taking any money from them. May well be. Trump is a man, not something incarnate.

Quite the murky claim: Hillary took money from women and children suffering in war torn countries. It's much clearer when you contract with someone who agrees to pay you for your work and then doesn't. That's quite a bombshell for the average small business, and Trump stiffed hundreds of them.

Yes, he's a man. Some men can be trusted and some can't. And the men who trust Trump can't be relied upon to claim anything trustworthy about anybody. Sheer lies and hatred are what keeps them going.

you guys are running out there with a noose, torches and pitchforks wanting to string the man up

You are projecting again. Actually, it's Trump that is supplying ALL the rope. And you'll see FAR more Trumpasites out there calling for violence against Hillary -- just like they did against the Kenyan Marxist Muslim -- than anything coming from the Democrats. Much of what Trump spouts is tinged with violence, and it seems to only get a bigger roar from his depraved minions. (Yes, Hillary stopped far short by calling them "deplorable.")

3 ( +5 / -2 )

And Trump had the nerve to criticize others for not paying enough in tax!!

https://thinkprogress.org/7-tweets-by-trump-about-taxes-that-are-very-awkward-now-75b500ea4f45#.68rjffcmm

It is unbelievable and unfathomable that anyone can defend him on this.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Glad to see your dovish side. I think you are possibly the last supporter of the Iraq bloodbath/catastrophe on this site and have continually lambasted Obama for his weakness in foreign policy.

Then you don't know a lot of people, if you think that.

The mental contortions required for a GOPer to support Trump and attack Hillary are often stunning. Supporting Trump is like practicing to be a contortionist so you can learn to break wind in your own face.

I feel like supporting Hillary is the gateway to being either mentally committed or having a lobotomy.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Congratulations for the NYT's professionalism. A majority of the silent Americans may know quite well of Trump's taxes smartness, but they would feel better when the key documents were published. These documents confirm my observation that during the debate evening, after Hilary Clinton's knock-down punch on the taxes issues, Donald Trump lost all of his arrogance and stood still under the waves of Clinton's continuing attacks..Good luck, the NYT editorial board.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Sorry, Simon, somehow my "Simon, you hate both major party candidates, right?" line got sandwiched between the other two lines about the Youtube comment.

But now you ask " Why would anything that's happened in the presidential race over the past week be depressing for anyone except Trump supporters?" Meaning Hillary's had a good week, and you don't dislike Hillary anymore?

This is informative: "Christie on leaked Trump tax return, accident investigation" ( Fox )

And this: " Hillary Clinton/ New York Times, Both used Same tax Loopholes as Trump"

( Youtuber Styxhexenhammer666 )

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

"What about the thousands of poor women and children that are suffering from war torn countries"

Glad to see your dovish side. I think you are possibly the last supporter of the Iraq bloodbath/catastrophe on this site and have continually lambasted Obama for his weakness in foreign policy.

The mental contortions required for a GOPer to support Trump and attack Hillary are often stunning. Supporting Trump is like practicing to be a contortionist so you can learn to break wind in your own face.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

What, why would I find some random YouTube comment depressing? Why would anything that's happened in the presidential race over the past week be depressing for anyone except Trump supporters? I did get quite a laugh out of this, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlSkiaO3Z60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH1ObUcBuV4

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The poor decision they all made was to try to do business with Trump in good faith, and he stiffed paying them.

What about the thousands of poor women and children that are suffering from war torn countries where Hillary it seems had no compunction about taking any money from them. May well be. Trump is a man, not something incarnate. Point is, you guys are running out there with a noose, torches and pitchforks wanting to string the man up and the hypocrites liberals are will turn an eye always away from a woman that gives the impression that she is for human rights and women's rights, but if it involves ethics and backdoor dealing, scruples is something unknown to them.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Amazing how these right-wingers are so DEVOTED and LOYAL to their fuhrer--he could literally kill someone has he bragged and they would still be there for him. Voting in a murderer is not a problem as long as it keeps Hillary from being president. Of course, he does have those RAPE charges of a THIRTEEN year CHILD who he threaten to kill if she spilled the beans, but even that is not a problem for these loyal "people". Wow, so wow!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

NYMag has summarized a bit of the speculation that Trump's second wife, Marla Maples, was the leaker. A bit of fun reading! http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/is-marla-maples-the-trump-tax-return-leaker.html

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“If everybody in this country was a ‘genius,’” the Vermont senator told ABC, “we would not have a country.”

Yeah, and if everybody in this country owned a business, we wouldn't have a country, because there wouldn't be any employees, lol. One thing is for sure - if Hillary Clinton, the anti-thesis of everything Sanders stood for before he capitulated, is elected president, we won't have a country.

Here's an interesting and foreboding comment I saw on Youtube:

Simon - you hate both major party candidates, right? It must be depressing for you...

"Nice job Americans for voting Hillary over Sanders... you're all ( effed )."

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@Bass

So, an unfounded allegation that Trump's sniffing was due to cocaine use is wild and ludicrous but an unfounded allegation made by Trump about Clinton's sex life is greeted with a "you never know".

ObamamaydeclaremartiallawandmaybeamuslimROFL.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

yabitsOCT. 03, 2016 - 06:13PM JST

"Could be. You never know."

That would be your response if someone claimed Trump was a cannibal?

Of course not. He'd vehemently deny it and then make the same claim about Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The shrillness in the posts of the Trump fanboys sez it all. D-e-s-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n.....

His refusal to submit to transparency in his murky financial dealings will sink him. And rightly so. He could be in hock to enemies of the US like the Russian Don Putin. In fact, I'm guessing he's seriously in debt to the Russians oligarchs since no bank in the US would lend this con-artist anymore cash.

If the '95 returns are anything to go by he's hemorrhaging money like a quadruple amputee without tourniquets.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Don’t you think a man who has this kind of economic genius is a lot better for the United States than a woman" - Rudy Giuliani

In a week that has produced titilating claims of a sex tape from a former beauty queen, a suggestion that Hillary is unfaithful to her husband, and now the claim that Donald is a genius in his ability to sell himself as a Common Man's Man, while simultaneously screwing the Common Man for 18 years via tax loopholes, I didn't think the sinking ship that is Donald Trump could spring any more leaks that it already has.

Then Giuliani opened his mouth.

With friends like Rudy, Trump doesn't need enemies.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Really? If that were true, he would be living on skid row and out of the race.

Stop and consider for a moment the hundreds of businesses -- judging from the thousands of lawsuits -- that Trump put under or drove to the brink as the result of their poor decision-making. The poor decision they all made was to try to do business with Trump in good faith, and he stiffed paying them.

Could be. You never know.

That would be your response if someone claimed Trump was a cannibal? For over five years, Trump claimed up and down that Barack Obama was not born in the United States. We know how that claim turned out.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Economic growth (GDP) is by definition measured by how much is consumed.

Consumption is only one part of GDP. The P in GDP gives it away!

Production always comes first. If Apple had never produced iPhones in the first place, no one could own one.

Think food. Until food is produced, it can't be eaten. It's when people save their excess production that they have the capacity to trade that excess with others, and get something else to consume in exchange.

On the other hand, people who have produced nothing can demand all they want, but they aren't going to get much in return, beyond charity.

Spurring consumption is thus generally seen as the best way to spur economic growth and employment.

I'm out then, because I think this general view is wrong (and it's why the advanced economies have been performing poorly in recent times).

Tax cuts to the wealthy are inefficient since they tend to park a lot of their money in investments that dont actually produce jobs.

Some investments create jobs, and I don't believe that all investments made by the wealthy are an exception.

a million dollars in tax savings to 10,000 working class households and theyll spend it on food, gas, furniture, etc - a lot of stuff that employs a lot of people.

People already eat food, consume energy and own some furniture. I don't see much economic Growth coming from more of the same.

I think the failure of these consumption focused policies is that central planners in government have no clue about the next big thing, or what is or will be in demand. Like with Japan's butter problem. The best the government can do is get out of the way and let people use their own imaginations.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

BlacklabelOCT. 03, 2016 - 05:33PM JST

So all these articles about Trump doing something that has been confirmed as LAWFUL just to make him look bad.

When a candidate says his business acumen makes him ideally qualified to be president I think we're entitled to know the truth about his record as a businessman. How bad it makes him look is irrelevant.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

So all these articles about Trump doing something that has been confirmed as LAWFUL just to make him look bad. Also, there is no law saying he has to release his taxes at all. That is why the article mentions the Dems trying to pass a law for that..

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Ah, that's where I have a problem. Is consumption what we need more of?

Economic growth (GDP) is by definition measured by how much is consumed. You can dispute the validity of measuring human well being through GDP, but if people arent consuming goods and services then businesses wont be hiring people to make/sell them.

Before people can consume stuff, they need a job. And they need stuff to be produced, before they can consume it. Where do the jobs come from, and where does the stuff get produced from? Who is taking the risk of hiring people to do work, and produce stuff?

The market produces jobs in response to demand. Spurring consumption is thus generally seen as the best way to spur economic growth and employment.

Tax cuts to the poor/middle class are generally seen as beneficial in this regard since they spend a disproportionate amount of their income on things which produce jobs. Tax cuts to the wealthy are inefficient since they tend to park a lot of their money in investments that dont actually produce jobs. Give a billionaire an extra million dollars in tax savings and hell just spend it on another Van Goh to hang on the wall or an investment property in London. These types of expenditures dont result in much added employment. Give a million dollars in tax savings to 10,000 working class households and theyll spend it on food, gas, furniture, etc - a lot of stuff that employs a lot of people.

I believe tax hikes always reduce the capital available to the private sector to be risked on just such activities, and hence I oppose them, whether they target the rich or not. (The best way to go is keep tax rates low across the board, IMO, and favour taxes on consumption rather than taxes on production.)

The private sector has no problem of a shortage of capital right now, hence the record low interest rates across the developed world. The problem is that the returns on productive investments around the world are quite low, probably because we are at a point of technological development where the biggest gains in productivity have already been realized and there are just small incremental ones being achieved. So the wealthy are just using their money to buy up properties in London, etc and look for other safe havens to park whatever money they have, which does nothing to support the real economy. Giving them more money will just further inflate those "dumb" markets, while doing nothing for employment or economic growth.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

He also claimed that Hillary had an affair, because "everyone" does,

Could be. You never know.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Don’t you think a man who has this kind of economic genius is a lot better for the United States than a woman" Rudolph Giuliani

Giuliani must be tired and his sexism is starting to show.

He also claimed that Hillary had an affair, because "everyone" does, and I thought there may be facts or policy discussions following the last debate. Instead, we get sore losers.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The NYT itself is also perfectly happy to take advantage of the US tax to minimize the amount of money it pays to the government: in 2014, the company got a tax refund of $3.6 million despite having a $29.9 million pretax profit, an effective negative tax rate for 2014, which it explained was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.

Pot meet Kettle.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@super

Totally understand, so let's talk about you lobs for a moment, how are we now? Are we better off with a 1.8 GDP besides the homeless and over 83% of Americans that don't pay taxes, the rest of the country is doing pretty lousy. 46 million people on food stamps, so tell me, how did his majesty make Americans happy when over 85% think the county is on the wrong track.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Don't hold your breath, fxgai - Trump will never, ever allow us privy to that information.

I won't, I'm not American so it doesn't matter all that much to me.

I'd rather have a tax cutting POTUS than a tax hiking one, but either way the two main POTUS options are pretty hopeless!

Tax cuts to the wealthy on the other hand produce very little economic benefit since they do very little to spur consumption.

Ah, that's where I have a problem. Is consumption what we need more of?

Before people can consume stuff, they need a job. And they need stuff to be produced, before they can consume it. Where do the jobs come from, and where does the stuff get produced from? Who is taking the risk of hiring people to do work, and produce stuff?

I believe tax hikes always reduce the capital available to the private sector to be risked on just such activities, and hence I oppose them, whether they target the rich or not. (The best way to go is keep tax rates low across the board, IMO, and favour taxes on consumption rather than taxes on production.)

"getting a free pass on having to pay $50 million a year..."

Someone who has made a big loss one year in their business should be able to earn income tax free up to an equivalent amount of the loss, IMO. If there is any argument I should think it would be about the duration - but if the US tax code allows for the carry-over to be up to 20 years, fine. Whether or not Trump has resumed paying income tax since the 1995 loss, we do not (yet) know.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Point, not saying it's illegal - yet - simply completely at odds with the public persona he tries to assume and his stated policies as a presidential candidate. Illegal, no; hypocritical, yes. The "yet" stems from the many unanswered questions surrounding 1995. The NYT, asked whether they had more documents, answered "No comment," so perhaps we'll learn more from that outlet. Meantime, suspicions have it that the documents were released by his second wife, Marla Maples, who would have had access to them in her divorce settlement.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Madverts,

I think it is Clinton you should be talking about when mentioning Russians. She`s had some dodgy dealings.

@Laguna,

Unfortunately he has done nothing wrong. Dont pay if you dont owe. Let me guess, you are voluntarily making a tax donation when you complete your taxes ya? All people do everything they can to avoid paying taxes.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Oops. Typo. I meant, "getting a free pass on having to pay $50 million a year..."

2 ( +3 / -1 )

it seems a lot of his signature projects (the wall, the deportation of all illegals) are going to require massive amounts of federal $$ to implement. Not sure where that is going to come from.

But I bet he has a good idea of where it's going to go...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

OK, but people should think about whether increasing taxes on the wealthy will actually benefit the economy or not, too. Sure, if American voters think that taxing the rich doesn't have any negative economic impacts, then they should go ahead and vote for that.

The economic effects of the tax increase on the wealthy is indeed one of the things people should weigh, but its debatable whether the one being proposed will have any actual negative effects (not offset by benefits realized elsewhere).

Tax cuts to the wealthy on the other hand produce very little economic benefit since they do very little to spur consumption.

Government spending cuts would be welcome if you ask me, that goes for America as well as Japan.

Everyone says that until the government cuts spending on something they actually benefit from or need.

I havent studied Trumps plan in detail, but it seems a lot of his signature projects (the wall, the deportation of all illegals) are going to require massive amounts of federal $$ to implement. Not sure where that is going to come from.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This is a short post by an economist explaining how it would be possible to book almost a billion dollars in losses in one year - and it raises a very serious question. The NYT noted that Trump's debt came:

... through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

But Trump did not repay that debt. Now, if that debt was forgiven, that forgiveness would have had to be counted as income against his net operating losses - but apparently, that did not happen. This means that Trump somehow managed to unload the debt without legally unloading the debt. This is how it may have happened:

Here is how debt parking works. Suppose the debtor (in this case The Donald) is going to get his debt cancelled for (say) 1c in the dollar. When he gets the debt wiped out the debtor (ie The Donald) will have to report assessable income equal to the debt wiped out (in this case 99 percent of $916 million).

The alternative though is for the debtor to set up a dummy party. The dummy party might be his wife or children or some company or trust set up by them or more likely some completely opaque offshore trust.

And that dummy party goes and buys the debt for say 1.1 cents in the dollar. Then they just sit there.

They don't force the debtor (ie The Donald) to repay. They don't make a profit or loss on the debt. And because the debtor never has his debt forgiven he never gets the assessment on debt forgiveness and he gets to keep his NOLs even though the losses did not come out of his pocket.

This is all just speculation, of course, but it seems logical to me. This leaves a terrifying question: as the author notes,

There is a vehicle out there (say an offshore trust or other undisclosed related party effectively controlled by Donald Trump) - which owns over $900 million in debt and is not bothering to collect it.

Who could that be?

http://brontecapital.blogspot.jp/2016/10/some-comments-on-new-york-times-story.html

2 ( +3 / -1 )

bass4funkOCT. 03, 2016 - 12:27PM JST

Really? If that were true, he would be living on skid row and out of the race.

Clearly it is, or else he wouldn't have lost $916 million in the first place. And I'm no expert, but I imagine getting a free pass on not having to pay up to $50 million a year until 2013 would help him stay off skid row.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

AttilathehungryOCT. 03, 2016 - 10:13AM JST Katsu, can you please provide a definition of "fair share"?

Personally, I define it as a measure proportionate with how much the person has benefited from the society they live in. Trump has benefited enormously from living in American society, in everything from hiring educated employees able to do his work for him, to living in a society where he can be reasonably protected from robbery, to having stable Internet infrastructure he can post 3AM hate tweets at women who threaten him from, to a legal system he can use to threaten everyone he dislikes with lawsuits. Hence, he owes a substantial contribution. It's disturbing that in my first high school job I may have contributed more to the betterment of my local school system and police force than Trump did.

Of course, you may not believe that definition and you're welcome to think Trump owes nothing. If you're operating from a strictly self-interested, ruthlessly capitalist point of view you may think there's nothing wrong with what Trump has done. And that's fine if that's what you think- but then you can never, ever whinge and moan about poor people doing the exact same thing with welfare benefits. And unfortunately, the GOP identity for the last several decades has been all about demonizing the poor for doing what it takes to survive while protecting the rich for doing the same. It's intellectually dishonest.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Problem is that there is likely information far more damaging in his tax returns than simply not paying federal taxes for 18 years - and far more problematic as Americans consider Trump for the presidency. To which foreign entities Trump owes money, how much, and under what conditions could be ascertained with such a release, and that is clearly what frightens Trump. Don't hold your breath, fxgai - Trump will never, ever allow us privy to that information.

I agree. I think he would rather lose the presidency than allow people to know what skeletons are hidden in his tax returns.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

"And now the end is near And so you face the final curtain..."

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Laguna : Trump owes money, how much, and under what conditions

And to WHOM.....

The American people deserve to know just how far in debt Trump is to the Russians and the Chinese.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

For the Clintonbots, perhaps the proverb of people who live in glass houses applies.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/clinton-campaign-admits-hillary-used-same-tax-avoidance-scheme-trump

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

“If everybody in this country was a ‘genius,’” the Vermont senator told ABC, “we would not have a country.”

hahaha so the country is filled with morons currently?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

If Trump wishes to refocus the debate on issues like taxes, wages and the overall economy, I suspect he will release his tax records before long.

That is a YUGE if. Problem is that there is likely information far more damaging in his tax returns than simply not paying federal taxes for 18 years - and far more problematic as Americans consider Trump for the presidency. To which foreign entities Trump owes money, how much, and under what conditions could be ascertained with such a release, and that is clearly what frightens Trump. Don't hold your breath, fxgai - Trump will never, ever allow us privy to that information.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Did she use it to pay zero tax for twenty years? If not, then its a bit of a false equivalence

It's not confirmed that Trump didn't pay tax for 20 years, that is just a hypothetical that has been put out there. (If Trump made a billion dollars in income in 1996, he'd have been back even, and certainly obliged to pay taxes on income that cancelled out his losses.)

It's all speculation without him releasing his financial information.

If Trump wishes to refocus the debate on issues like taxes, wages and the overall economy, I suspect he will release his tax records before long.

That is a bit misleading. Clintons tax plan doesnt actually change the tax burden of people earning less than 700,000$ per year, while increasing taxes only on the wealthy who earn more.

OK, but people should think about whether increasing taxes on the wealthy will actually benefit the economy or not, too. Sure, if American voters think that taxing the rich doesn't have any negative economic impacts, then they should go ahead and vote for that.

Trump`s cuts will also create a $500 billion hole in the budget, which will have to be offset by cuts or bigger deficits (or likely a combination of the two).

Government spending cuts would be welcome if you ask me, that goes for America as well as Japan.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Trump didn't break any laws by not paying taxes. If you or I had lost a billion dollars we'd do the same. And we'd increase our chances of getting nominated by the GOP for our business acumen.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Aren't a lot of Trumpettes blue collar workers who have been screwed over by the so called "elites"? Do they prefer the elites also don't pay any taxes?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So does that make her a tax-avoiding hypocrite?

Did she use it to pay zero tax for twenty years? If not, then its a bit of a false equivalence (not saying she isn`t a hypocrite, but the scale seems quite different).

Trump supports cutting tax rates, and Hillary supports hiking them, I gather.

That is a bit misleading. Clintons tax plan doesnt actually change the tax burden of people earning less than 700,000$ per year, while increasing taxes only on the wealthy who earn more.

Trump cuts everyone`s taxes, but the savings go overwhelmingly to the benefit of the wealthy.

Trump`s cuts will also create a $500 billion hole in the budget, which will have to be offset by cuts or bigger deficits (or likely a combination of the two).

Its debatable which will boost jobs and overall prosperity, and the tax plans have to also be considered in the context of each candidates overall policy proposals. Clintons is a bit easier to evaluate in that regard since her campaign has been a lot more clear about what specifically they plan to do, while Trump`s policies on a lot of economic issues are really vague and sometimes contradictory.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Texas A&M: More importantly, his vision of cutting corporate taxes and taxing imports on American companies that moved overseas -- thus making them competitive with the rest of the U.S. -- will create jobs.

This is the kind of very old thinking that dominates the Republican party. Companies might create jobs. Or they could take the cash, buy out a competitor, pump up their stock price, lay off half the workers, and collect massive bonuses at the top. You'd have to be pretty naive to bet on the former.

Let me introduce you to how the world really works. The 2004 tax holiday where the rate was dropped to 5%:

http://www.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203633104576623771022129888

The 15 companies that benefited the most from a 2004 tax break for the return of their overseas profits cut more than 20,000 net jobs and decreased the pace of their research spending, according to report from the Democratic staff of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations released Monday night.

The report warned against repeating the tax break, calling the 2004 effort "a failed tax policy" that cost the U.S. Treasury $3.3 billion in estimated lost revenues over 10 years and led to U.S. companies directing more funds offshore. U.S.-based multinationals often defer bringing back profits earned abroad to avoid paying U.S. taxes on them.

(end)

But but but....if we give them more cash surely they'll give us jobs. The fact is that they are sitting on record profits and record amounts of cash and wages are still flat. 'Splain that. The conditions are ripe for this Republican fantasy so where are the jobs?

What they want is to start the race to the bottom. In the Republican fantasy land the US lowers our rate and everything else in the world stays the same. In reality Ireland will lower their rate, other countries will follow suit, then we'll have a 0% tax rate for corporations. Republicans are too short sighted and too set in their ways to see this.

And of course there's Kansas, the slap in the face to every fiscal conservative on earth. The deep tax cuts failed to produce jobs and is bankrupting the state. The bubble dwellers usually have no idea about this story and have no intention on researching it on their own.

What I'd like to see are tax breaks for companies that actually do create jobs in the US. The higher the wages, the lower the tax rate. If they buy someone else to cut jobs and line management's pockets then tax them through the nose. It works to create an incentive to actually hire US workers instead of the GOP fantasy that they are actually looking out for us.

Would you be on board for something like that or are you set in your ways as a Republican?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The irony here being that Trump was clearly lousy at running a business too, or else he wouldn't be able game the system like this...

Really? If that were true, he would be living on skid row and out of the race. He and Hillary are both smart at hiding their assets.

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

The irony here being that Trump was clearly lousy at running a business too, or else he wouldn't be able game the system like this...

To be fair, that's a jump. It may indeed be true that he isn't successful as he says he is, but one can't say just by judging from one year's tax filing. Realizing losses to minimize tax due is not a stupid thing to do.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I could care less for the left trying to defend her,

You do care quite a bit, then. So it's unclear whether people have your blessing to defend her. If and when there is anything to defend against, of course.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

JefferyDomerOCT. 03, 2016 - 12:11PM JST

SO, let me get this straight, Lets say that anyone of you complainers are running a FOR PROFIT business, you would pay non required taxes for the betterment of the country?

Well, I wouldn't try to sell myself as a genius entrepreneur or slag off anyone else who was ducking the tax bullet.

Get real! You simply have poverty pride and obviously would be lousy at running a business, which I doubt any of you have.

The irony here being that Trump was clearly lousy at running a business too, or else he wouldn't be able game the system like this...

3 ( +5 / -2 )

As the complainers memories serve them, what about the Panama Papers?

What exactly will Clinton do to get that money back to the States? Or even stop the flow of money leaving? SHE DOESNT HAVE A PLAN!

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Hillary Clinton used the same exact method as Donald Trump to pay less tax, according to her own tax returns

So does that make her a tax-avoiding hypocrite? Nah, who cares.

I think the important thing for American voters is to consider what each candidate will do to tax rates.

Trump supports cutting tax rates, and Hillary supports hiking them, I gather.

Voters should think about which way is more likely to boost jobs and prosperity, which will in turn benefit the rest of us people in the world.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

SO, let me get this straight,

Lets say that anyone of you complainers are running a FOR PROFIT business, you would pay non required taxes for the betterment of the country? Get real! You simply have poverty pride and obviously would be lousy at running a business, which I doubt any of you have.

As far as I can tell, this is a HUGE distraction from Clinton`s ILLEGAL 33,000 BleachBit criminal act.

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

Let's continue the "Trump is a business genius" discussion.

If Trump kept the property he inherited and took the cash his father gave him and put it into a stock market index fund, while Donald sat on the beach and did nothing his whole life, he would be worth more than he is now.

So, I would say that he's a business fool rather than a bsuiness genius.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Oh, dear ...

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/02/hillary-clinton-avoided-taxes-way-trump/

Hillary Clinton Avoided Taxes the Same Way Trump Did - 2 Oct 2016

Hillary Clinton used the same exact method as Donald Trump to pay less tax, according to her own tax returns released by her presidential campaign. ... Clinton’s 2015 tax returns reveal that Hillary Clinton also reported capital gains losses in order to lessen her tax burden through a “carryover.” ... Thus, the Clintons reported a “Net long-term capital gain or (loss)” of “-699,540.” ...

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

I'm having trouble understanding this, but is your point that Obama not only pays taxes but also releases his tax info?

Release your tax info Don! What ELSE are you hiding?

Why are we talking about Obama, he's history and will thankfully be gone soon. As for Hillary, when can we see her records for her foundations. I wonder, wheat is this woman hiding, I could care less for the left trying to defend her, I want her to go on the record and make her records and speeches pertaining to her foundation public.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

SO.... What makes you more smart?

Not sure, but writing in all caps sure doesn`t help.

DONT pay taxes lawfully, become the leader and fix the errors of the tax code and spending.

Interesting strategy. So Trump is going to eliminate the loss carry over rule that he took advantage of? Great. But why hasn`t he stated this as one of his aims so far? In fact, why did he go to such lengths to avoid releasing his tax documents if his plan all along was to fix the errors he was taking advantage of?

If he was so determined to fix the tax code to eliminate the rules that unfairly advantaged rich people like him, youd think hed be quite proud to show how awful the system is, no?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

All very large businesses do the same if in the same situation.

pointofview, the difference is that Trump applied these breaks to his personal tax liabilities. Look at it this way: If you were a manager at a Trump Casino who made $100,000 the year his casinos went bankrupt, you would still have been liable for tax payments on that sum and would have received no future tax relief despite being now jobless. Trump, on the other hand, was able to maneuver his incompetence into almost two decades of a tax-free lifestyle.

Legal? - yes. Moral? - well, that depends on your morals. Would he take steps to rectify this as president? - No.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Sure, Trump is really smart in not paying taxes and benefiting himself as a result. However, it's the employees of his companies and average hardworking American that gets hurt in the process. Those employees in his four bankruptcies all lost their jobs and weren't even paid for their hard work. He's a champion for himself and himself only.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

SO.... What makes you more smart?

Pay taxes in the full that are NOT required by law to support a government that spends money to bail out failed banks, wars, freebies to Iran, etc....

DONT pay taxes lawfully, become the leader and fix the errors of the tax code and spending.

WHY WOULDNT YOU BE HAPPY WITH THE SECOND CHOICE???!!!! DO YOU HAVE POVERTY PRIDE????????

Good for him!

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

The longer he keeps his tax info secret, the more damage will be done to his campaign. Looking forward to seeing him deflect and avoid answering questions in the next two debates, too.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Texas A&M AggieOCT. 03, 2016 - 11:02AM JST @Simon Foston,

One, Mr. Trump was within the law as it was written when democrat Bill Clinton was president.

I know. I never claimed otherwise. Your point? Mine was that he is a monumental failure as a businessman and a colossal hypocrite.

He played the tax game by the democrats' rules and won, again.

How proud you must be feeling.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@Strangerland,

All very large businesses do the same if in the same situation.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

He did nothing wrong. If you do not like the tax codes, vote in someone who will change them.

There is a difference between "illegal" and "wrong." Trump is on record repeatedly wailing against the "49%" - those in the US with incomes too low to pay federal income taxes - when it turns out he's been one of them the whole time!

Most hope for rationalization of the tax code. Trump would do so by basically simplifying the dodges he's used in the past. He would set the tax rate for S corporations (the type he most often uses) at 15%, and he'd also eliminate the estate tax. These among his other proposals would explode the deficit.Clinton would raise taxes on the wealthy through tax simplification by eliminating loopholes. Her plan would lead to a growing debt but on a dramatically lower arc than Trump's - and with funds to pay for much-needed social investment*.

*Note that a border wall is not included in much-needed border social investment.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Trump admits he didn't pay (or hasn't paid) Federal income tax for many years and he is proud of it and boasting his smartness. Then why does he still not release his tax return like every other candidate? I think he is trying hide something really really bad, which is other than the fact that he paid no Federal income tax for many years. What's he afraid of?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

"Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, a key Trump surrogate on the campaign trail, called the reports proof of the New York tycoon’s “absolute genius.”

I had a modicum of respect for Giuliani when he was mayor of NYC, but the man has clearly gone senile in the last few years to the point where he is nothing but a blubbering lunatic, not only NOT worthy of an ounce of respect, but proving that he perhaps was not worthy of any at all, ever. He's like a little dog that nips at Trump's heels. Trump makes a remark about Hillary's looks, Giuliani giggles, drools, and does the same. Trump says, "That makes me smart" about not paying taxes, and when the whole thing is crashing down around him Giuliani checks his diapers and calls the man an absolute genius. Giuliani should be checked into a hospital for the senile.

Msdelicious: "He did nothing wrong."

That depends. I'd call nearly a billion dollars in losses on all entrepreneurial ventures to be not good business, and good reason not to trust a supposed wealthy businessman to run the country; a guy who has already said walls will be built, Japan will flip the bill for its defence, etc. He's already playing with the nations money and he is proven to be a completely failure in handling others money, save for making himself rich. You want that kind of leader? He made others go broke to save his own hide -- I don't call that 'correct', do you?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

One, Mr. Trump was within the law as it was written when democrat Bill Clinton was president. He played the tax game by the democrats' rules and won, again.

A) The rule Mr. Trump took advantage of was introduced to Federal tax law in the 1950s during the Eisenhower administration. B) It was passed by Congress, not the president.

But forget the facts, lets just keep calling it a Clinton law.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

fxgai; the story did not specify whether these few pages were from Trump's personal return or his business return. If the latter, he has a responsibility to his investors and employees. If the former, he has a responsibility to his family. I rather suspect that a tax filing from someone of his status would be extremely complicated and mix both the personal and the professional. The key point remains that he did nothing illegal or even immoral. Just business as it was done in the 1990s.

Now, if we could only get away from the personal attacks and back to the issues, if the Democrats would let us.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

He did nothing wrong. If you do not like the tax codes, vote in someone who will change them.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

@Simon Foston,

One, Mr. Trump was within the law as it was written when democrat Bill Clinton was president. He played the tax game by the democrats' rules and won, again.

More importantly, his vision of cutting corporate taxes and taxing imports on American companies that moved overseas -- thus making them competitive with the rest of the U.S. -- will create jobs.

As a registered independent voter, I find those options a lot better than Mrs. Clinton's promise to her supporters who refuse to support themselves to raise taxes on the middle class (I.e., me), while supporting NAFTA 2.0 with Asia allowing more jobs to leave the country. . . .

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

But the taxes in question are Trump`s own personal income taxes, not the taxes of any corporation that he was managing. He owes nobody any duty with regard to them.

This is the first thing to came to mind when reading defenses of his PERSONAL income tax rate.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Is there such a thing as a tax-avoiding hypocrite? One can say Trump is stupid for many reasons, but legally minimising his taxes would not be one of them.

Avoiding taxes in itself doesn`t make him a hypocrite. But doing so on the one hand, while on the other making several of the public statements he has made criticizing others for not paying their share of taxes, does allow one to make the claim that he is a hypocrite on this issue.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

the argument that he was legally forced to take advantage of this loophole is a bald faced lie.

Correct.

tax-avoiding hypocrite

Is there such a thing as a tax-avoiding hypocrite? One can say Trump is stupid for many reasons, but legally minimising his taxes would not be one of them.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Well now we know some of what he has been hiding. How about the rest? Based on the evidence so far, it sounds like he did nothing wrong legally but he clearly felt uncomfortable enough about it that he didn't release anything of his own volition, hoping to keep it quiet. That shows us without a shadow of a doubt that he feels he is in the wrong. And for once we can all agree with him on that! And hats off to the Trump Tower employee who saw the need to show the world what kind of man we are dealing here.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

He has said many times that he doesnt mind paying taxes if they are spend properly.

How noble of him.

This event took place under the days of the Bill Clinton tax code. 'Nuff said.

The loss carry over rule in question wasn`t put in the tax code by Clinton.

Trump would have been in trouble if he HADN'T taken advantage of every tax loophole possible.

This is one of the Trump lies that has no basis in fact in regard to these taxes. The officers of a corporation do have a fiduciary duty and duty of care to their shareholders which includes taking advantage of tax breaks where appropriate.

But the taxes in question are Trump`s own personal income taxes, not the taxes of any corporation that he was managing. He owes nobody any duty with regard to them.

This does not make what Trump did illegal, but the argument that he was legally forced to take advantage of this loophole is a bald faced lie. He chose to do it, and should just own that instead of trying to obfuscate the issue. Whether you think that makes him a smart businessman or a tax-avoiding hypocrite is up to you, but don`t exaggerate his case.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Booking a loss and carrying it over to future years to reduce tax is pretty standard. Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.

It can be done with certain types of income in the Japanese tax system too.

Consider how things would be if this were not the case. It would be that when you lose, you lost, and when you make money, the government takes a chunk of the profit, without considering how much you lost previously. That would be unfair - how much tax you pay should depend on how successful you are over time, not just a single calendar year.

(Booking a loss of close to a billion dollars seems huge, but for Trump who says he's worth several billion, not really.)

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

This kind of a hit piece by the NYT may well be the reason that Trump is reluctant to release his returns.

Of course it is. If he let people know his real circumstances, he wouldn't stand up to the scrutiny. He'd be shown for the fraud he is. As long as he doesn't release his tax returns, people can suspect he's a fraud, but it's not there beyond a doubt.

Wow! If only these left wingers would be so evil to Apple for doing the same. Instead they just keep buying up iphones and laptops.

Talk about a false equivalency.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Wow! If only these left wingers would be so evil to Apple for doing the same. Instead they just keep buying up iphones and laptops.

Trump followed the tax code. Also, there proof that he didnt pay any federal taxes just a might or maybe. Politicians wrote the code, something he wants to make more simplistic for everyone. He has said many times that he doesnt mind paying taxes if they are spend properly. Giving 1.7 bil to Iran isn`t spending the American workers tax properly. Btw, Clinton did the same just with less money but using the same tax benefit.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

Katsu, can you please provide a definition of "fair share"? I hear this term bandied about but nobody ever can pin down what exactly it means. Trump would have been in trouble if he HADN'T taken advantage of every tax loophole possible. That is something that financially uneducated people generally fail to understand.

But, it is a lot easier to simply repeat talking points and engage in virtue signalling I guess.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

"Trump went on the attack again on Saturday, mocking the former first lady for a recent bout with pneumonia and raising questions about her loyalty to her husband, former president Bill Clinton"

This piece of tabloid level crap goes virtually unnoticed these days.

After a brief respite, the trash is back and it stinks. Expect a nadir in the history of political debates when Trump crawls out of the sewer for the next round.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Anyway, Trump, never a fan of the First Amendment, has threatened to sue the Times for publishing this material. This article is a succinct argument about how his case would not go anywhere, and also gives a summary of five additional First Amendment cases that he lost.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/02/donald-j-trump-can-t-shut-down-new-york-times-tax-story.html

7 ( +8 / -1 )

When the wealthy play tax games to skip out of paying their fair share, the right defends it as a sign of cleverness.

When the poor play welfare games to just survive, it's a sign of their sloth and moral weakness.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

This kind of a hit piece by the NYT may well be the reason that Trump is reluctant to release his returns.

They run a story having received only 3 pages of a hundreds of pages long tax return. They focus on one line of the three pages. They fail to report (until the end of the story) that what Trump did was not only legal, but obligatory for a man in his position. They fail to report that receiving such information is criminal on the part of whoever gave it to them. They speculate on the results in the absence of any actual facts. Unbelievable.

Yet another "blast from the past" by the left that should bear no meaning today. First the chubby pageant queen. Now, the shock that Trump obeyed the law when filing his taxes 20 years ago. I can only wonder what will be next.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Texas A&M AggieOCT. 03, 2016 - 09:57AM JST

Heh, just more shiny object deflection by Mrs. Clinton's MSM dog walkers. . . .

You don't think it's in the public interest to be informed that a presidential candidate who bases his claim to the presidency on his business acumen and has repeatedly slams tax dodgers has lost a whole ton of money and dodges paying tax himself?

11 ( +14 / -3 )

The real estate mogul declared a loss of nearly $1 billion on his 1995 income tax return, enabling him to legally avoid paying taxes for almost two decades -- article

This event took place under the days of the Bill Clinton tax code. 'Nuff said.

Also, if he broke the law all those many many years ago (which he didn't; even the NYT admits it), he would have been charged by now and thus ineligible to run for POTUS. Heh, just more shiny object deflection by Mrs. Clinton's MSM dog walkers. . . .

-21 ( +1 / -22 )

The real estate mogul declared a loss of nearly $1 billion on his 1995 income tax return

Pure genius.

bass: Trump didn't do anything other rich moguls do from the idiot contradicting Hollywood elites to the Silicon Valley geeks and to the Mega-rich Liberals and Conservatives out there.

Well that should put his "anti-establishment" rhetoric to rest.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Trump sycophants discovering a new personal low they need to agree with everyday. Crazy

10 ( +12 / -2 )

his history shows that he views his investors as just so many more marks.

And his Strumpets think he views them differently for some reason.

As I've said before, he is sometimes on message, but he is entirely the wrong solution for that message. He is the type we need protection against, not the type that should be protecting us.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

He's good at fooling fools, stranger. This is what I guess happened: Trump initially owned his casinos as a proprietorship, but after he'd sucked them dry of capital to prevent personal bankruptcy and banks refused to bail him out again, he raised enough capital through equity by creating a corporation and spinning them off as a public corporation. Surprisingly, there were plenty of fools to invest; three years later, they lost everything as the corporation filed for bankruptcy and the banks took it over.

So Trump lost everything in Atlantic City, but because the assets had originally been owned by him personally, he was able to retain the immense capital loss against his personal income. So ignore all this chatter of "fiduciary duty" - Trump laughs in the face of such a concept; instead, his history shows that he views his investors as just so many more marks.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

I've never known anyone to voluntarily add a tip to their taxes because they felt guilty about not paying enough.

"I think I'll add a tip to my tax bill because the government does such a good job..."

On the other hand, Donald Trump is hardly a "genius" on taxes. His accountant and tax attorney simply did their jobs, not Trump. Do his supporters really think he sat a table under a oil lamp for weeks to study the tax code and write out his tax return?

Oh wait... maybe they do think that...

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Isn't the fact that the wealthy and business entities can legally not pay taxes the real problem here not that Trump used the system to his companies advantage? Trump gets audited frequently. If he isn't paying his fair share they will bill him for it. I don't blame Trump for following the law. I blame politicians like Clinton, Reid, McConnell, and Obama for designing such a complicated and loop hole riddled system in the first place. The ability to manipulate the tax and regulatory system to favor some over others is the major source of politicians power and influence. That is what is truly corrupt with American democracy.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

The added sickness is that Trump of course is running on a platform of giving massive tax breaks to wealthy individuals like himself.

And he's fooled the people into thinking he's working for them. Fools.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

The added sickness is that Trump of course is running on a platform of giving massive tax breaks to wealthy individuals like himself.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Obama's economics already pretty much destroyed the middle class, why do you think so many people like Trump, he is a clear repudiation of everything that Obama stands for.

Many of the people who think Trump is their champion either have no moral compass, are scared out of their gourd, or both. That's why he's so popular among white supremacists.

Release your tax info Don! What ELSE are you hiding?

Heaven only knows.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Many successful companies do the same-pay little, if any tax.

Kurisupisu, the issue is not, as Trump's surrogates are having it, fiduciary duty - obligation to maximize profits for shareholders - if (as it seems is the case), the deductions were used against Trump's individual returns and thus individual benefit. Trump and his campaign are trying once again to have their cake and eat it, too.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I understand that under America's bizarre tax-system you can not pay any taxes if you loose a billion dollars.

What I don't understand is that you can loose a billion dollars, loose so much you don't have to pay taxes, AND STILL BE RICH?

11 ( +11 / -0 )

So Trump is proud of being a leech on society - benefiting from taxes paid by the little people, without paying any of his own.

This is exactly what people were complaining about when the whole one-percenters thing happened a few years ago. We have people to whom all the wealth goes, who don't pay their own share. At least Buffet is clear on it, and wants to change it. If he were the one saying some of the things Trump says, it could be believable. Trump had never indicated there is a problem with it, nor been transparent with the fact that he doesn't pay any taxes, until he was running for office, and people somehow thing that he is out to help them?

It reminds me of a cartoon I saw the other day. There is a billboard with a wolf on it, that says 'I'm going to eat you'. There are a bunch of sheep eating grass around the billboard, and one says to another 'I like this guy, he's a straight talker'.

Sometimes Trump is on message, but if people think that means he's the right person to fix the problems he mentions, and that he won't instead manipulate the system to get whatever he can get out of it, they are fooling themselves, and are going to sell out their country in the name of frustration with a broken system.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

@Bass Trump, he is a clear repudiation of everything that Obama stands for.

I'm having trouble understanding this, but is your point that Obama not only pays taxes but also releases his tax info?

Release your tax info Don! What ELSE are you hiding?

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Perso I would have no problem with Trump the biz man 'legally' avoiding paying taxes if Trump the candidate had not had a go at ppl (mexicans in particular) for 'taking advantage of the system'. Isn't it what he did? Double standards.

If you want to single out dole bludgers, welfare parasistes etc you better be irreproachable yourself.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Trump economics will eliminate most of the middle class and make the US an even more class based society.

Obama's economics already pretty much destroyed the middle class, why do you think so many people like Trump, he is a clear repudiation of everything that Obama stands for.

But with his goal of expanding the military, at least those at the lower end of the economic spectrum might be able to find work serving as soldiers and sailors, and possibly giving up their lives and health so the richest can continue to live even more comfortably.

Who provide jobs for the rest of us or do you know ANY poor person that can provide jobs to millions of people? How many rich people do you see taking care of the poor in Somalia?

-33 ( +0 / -33 )

Pays no taxes yet laments the dire state of the airports. Genius?

24 ( +24 / -0 )

Trump didn't do anything other rich moguls do from the idiot contradicting Hollywood elites to the Silicon Valley geeks and to the Mega-rich Liberals and Conservatives out there. Yes, I get it. Trump is the presidential nominee-fine. He didn't and shouldn't lie, he shouldn't stoop to the level of his rival. She's got her own problems with her foundation and this is the perfect opportunity to deflect from that.

http://www.vox.com/2016/10/2/13136034/donald-trump-no-federal-taxes-cartoon

-26 ( +0 / -26 )

Trump is proud of his accomplishment, and justifiably so. Hillary can only exude honest pretentiousness. She is after all, a professional politician.

-21 ( +0 / -21 )

That Trump’s fellow ruling class elitists see the ‘genius’ in what he’s done is no surprise. These establishment moguls and magnates created and ensured the maintenance of a tax system so baffling only those like Trump able to afford an army of lawyers and accountants (plus afford to buy off enough bureaucrats and elected officials) would benefit from its byzantine rules and regs.

I can’t believe many of Trump’s nominally employed, rust-belt supporters see what Trump’s done as ‘genius’. Unless they’re so blinkered, blinded and bitter they’re unable to question their wannabe Messiah.

The best the majority of Trump’s followers - and most US Americans for that matter - can get from the current system that’s allowed the Trumps to live like royalty is to continue to be trickled-down-on.

Trump economics will eliminate most of the middle class and make the US an even more class based society. But with his goal of expanding the military, at least those at the lower end of the economic spectrum might be able to find work serving as soldiers and sailors, and possibly giving up their lives and health so the richest can continue to live even more comfortably. As the great Scot David Byrne sang, ‘same as it ever was’.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Mr Trump needs some 'real' friends..

A real friend will tell you what an idiot you are if you tell them you lost 30 bucks.. Let alone a BILLION.

Come to think of it I've lost some money along the way (possibly tens of dollars even).. I might be a genius too.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Is this all Trump's detractors can do? Many successful companies do the same-pay little, if any tax. However, many of Trump's staff do, don't they?

-26 ( +3 / -29 )

To me, the story is not the use of the tax code to avoid, legally, paying taxes. It is that some "great" businessman can lose $1 billion in one year! That's "genius"?

19 ( +24 / -5 )

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