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Surprisingly low Shanghai COVID death count spurs questions

23 Comments
By HUIZHONG WU and DAKE KANG

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23 Comments
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Should we consider all people who died of old age as Covid-19 death count because the virus caused them to run out of breath.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Both Jin and Zhang said this has been China’s practice since the beginning of the pandemic and is not proof of a deliberate attempt to underreport the death count.

China was lying from the beginning of the pandemic nonstop!

Starting with the Origin of the Virus, continue with information about the outbreak, until reporting number of cases and deaths.

Lies, Lies and again lies.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

You know, I didn’t think western media would be able to twist “low COVID deaths” as a negative. I was woefully naive. Of course they would. I’m sure they had another story ready to go in case reported numbers were high.

I’d believe that due to chinas method of counting (a method clearly disclosed) their numbers would be a bit deflated. We are talking about a scale that can’t really be hidden though. Unless you thought China is able to hide hundreds of thousands of cases.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Chinese people generally aren't fat and they have a younger population than the old capitalist powers. On top of all that, the government has gone all out to stop the disease and treat those infected. The low death rate isn't surprising but would be if it were any other way.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

AddfwynToday  03:15 pm JST

You know, I didn’t think western media would be able to twist “low COVID deaths” as a negative. I was woefully naive. Of course they would. I’m sure they had another story ready to go in case reported numbers were high.

Exactly. The obviousness of why a zero covid policy works speaks for itself in the low numbers.

Congratulations Shanghai.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Exactly. The obviousness of why a zero covid policy works speaks for itself in the low numbers.

If you read the article it is quite obvious the numbers are not being reported truthfully, hiding deaths by forcing a "negative" status on the patients that die and not counting as covid deaths what the rest of the world clearly do.

If anything the low numbers speak for the manipulation and lack of transparency that have characterized everything the CCP has done about the pandemic.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Why would the Chinese government risk public unrest with deeply unpopular lockdowns, which most consider unnecessary, but at the same time undercut their own narrative by hiding cases? If anything, they have a huge incentive to report as many cases as possible to justify their lockdown. If someone can explain the conspiracy theory in a way that makes sense, I'm all ears.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

They aren't worried about public unrest. If people protest they'll just arrest them or shoot them.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Why would the Chinese government risk public unrest with deeply unpopular lockdowns, which most consider unnecessary, but at the same time undercut their own narrative by hiding cases?

The Chinese government to me is the opposite of the French in this regard, who are a bit afraid of unrest and protests and will bend to the masses. China is the opposite. The people obey the government who is the authority. In many countries in the West, the government is an institute to which you flip your middle finger.

The CCP is more like an old school coach - a Bobby Knight or Mike Ditka - who'll yell at you. The people are like their players, on the timid side, who are the ones who are afraid.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I've noticed, whatever news that comes out of China, positive or negative, for posters who dislike China, 'it's all lies.'

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I've noticed, whatever news that comes out of China, positive or negative, for posters who dislike China, 'it's all lies.'

Don't worry, people in China will never know since just about every single social media website, news agency and video site is banned there.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I wouldn't believe any news coming out of China!! BTW Last year China reported that they had the Corona Virus under control! The news showed people partying etc...I guess these are the same people lining up. Ok I will take it as being fake news as always!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Chinese people generally aren't fat and they have a younger population than the old capitalist powers. 

No, that is not the case. China's population is aging rapidly like that of Japan. The working age population of China began to decline in 2014 and that decline is accelerating as their total fertility rate declines setting new record lows every year. China's overall population peaked maybe last year and is beginning to decline as well. The kids are fat and soft now with eye problems from too much computer gaming. The PLA complains constantly about the lack of suitably fit young men and women qualified for military service.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Don't worry, people in China will never know since just about every single social media website, news agency and video site is banned there.

The people of Shanghai know most of what is going on and resistance to authority is beginning to develop. There have been confrontations with police and busloads of citizens arrested and taken away. The resistance has adopted the opening line of the Chinese national anthem, "Stand up! Those who refuse to be slaves!", a phrase which is now being censored on Chinese social media.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The Chinese government to me is the opposite of the French in this regard, who are a bit afraid of unrest and protests and will bend to the masses. 

A government of the people derives it's just powers from the consent of the governed. An elected government should be afraid to go against the will of the people. Referring to elected self government Thomas Jefferson wrote:

"The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has it’s evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Few covid deaths, but people with chronic health conditions are blocked from health care since only covid cases are allowed.

Need dialysis in Shanghai? Good luck.

Have a heart attack in Shanghai? Don't expect treatment.

Even the testing of covid is full of risks. As usual, a CCP film is required for anything related to covid work. I've seen videos of workers without masks, without gloves, placing those cotton swaps into the little sealed packets. It isn't automated. People are doing that.

You don't want to be in covid quarantine: https://youtu.be/X7znNkec2cI Remember that facility built in a few weeks in Hunan? It is gone now. It leaked when it rained. It was built for propaganda.

And you don't want to have your flat building taken over to be used for quarantines: https://youtu.be/TVADqBZRagA Police in the video are blaming the US for covid and being relocated? Ideology.

Lockdowns aren't just in Beijing: https://youtu.be/G6C6ZZHYL50

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Both Jin and Zhang said this has been China’s practice since the beginning of the pandemic and is not proof of a deliberate attempt to underreport the death count.

Makes sense. The West keeps trying to undercut China's success in dealing with the pandemic.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The result is a blurred portrait of an outbreak that has sweeping ramifications for both the people of Shanghai and the rest of the world, given the city’s place as an economic, manufacturing and shipping hub.

I empathize with these people.

Imagine being under lockdown for more than a combined 207 days?

Imagine almost 60% of a countries population having to undergo such lockdowns? Not being able to leave one's home for more than 2 hours a day?

A 9pm to 5 am curfew?

Being prohibited from traveling more than 3 miles from one's home? Fines for breaching these restrictions?

I truly feel sorry for these people-----of Australia, who, as those (who read) would recall, endured harsh lockdowns.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/09/australians-are-suffering-from-excessive-covid-lockdowns/

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The strangest fact here is that a 99 year old died-perplexing!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Makes sense. The West keeps trying to undercut China's success in dealing with the pandemic.

The quote do not justify the underreporting, just tries to excuse it by saying it is not done on purpose, but it does not negate the standard set clearly means underreporting.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Being prohibited from traveling more than 3 miles from one's home? Fines for breaching these restrictions?

Our family members in Shanghai are only allowed outside within their condo or apartment complex when they are not forced to stay inside. They have not been allowed beyond the gates of their complex yet. The city government has workers bring food every three days but Mama is having a tough time obtaining one drug she needs and lives in fear of needing to see a doctor as she doesn't drive and there is nobody to take her. One brother in law has a car but he can't go anywhere to help her. It's a real mess there.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You can't compare the figures of different nations.

Most mixed up deaths caused by Covid and those in which Covid was a contributory factor. The UK included anyone who died of anything and had tested positive in the previous four weeks. Some countries have been suppressing deaths.

Some of the tests have been giving random results - false positives and false negatives.

Lockdowns can kill people, if they cannot access care and support. That's not a Covid death but a Covid response death.

People are dying after they have had Covid, from complications, reduced health, pneumonia or 'long Covid'. Viruses often leave a mark on peoples' health. Technically, these people may test negative, but Covid is a contributory factor.

In the Shanghai cases, it is likely that they cannot deliver the extensive level of care very elderly people need in quarantine environments, so regardless of their Covid status, they may die of incidental neglect issues.

Some of the people mentioned are very old. In your late 80s and 90s you may be very frail and your health can collapse if you don't get regular medication or can't cope with a routine change. Bluntly, we are not designed to live that long and often only do so with extensive, continuous care.

I suspect that any officials tweaking figures will have one eye on their own survival, knowing they will be scapegoated at the drop of a hat. You would too in their position.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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