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Suspect in Kansas abortion doctor's death warns of more violence

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molenir said:

You haven't heard about live babies being thrown in the trash? I know I have.

I think I "heard" about that on:

http://www.make-up-bullshit-to -prove-your-extremist-archconservative-christian-BS.com/lies/deceit/no-one-believes-this-bull-anyways

What we have heard is plenty of hate speech by the extremists on the right and they get plenty of support. I know not every conservative who is against abortion is supportive of this behavior but far too many are. It really provides the issue for many of these venomous snakes to propagate their hatred of anyone that does not share their beliefs.

If someone is going to make a statement about "live babies being thrown in the trash" then they better provide proof lest they be labeled the supplier of complete fabrication. I give it the same value as words from a charlatan's mouth.

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unless the fetus can survive outside of the womb then it is an abortion

With modern medical advances, many third-trimester babies can survive if given the chance. So why not a Caesarian instead of an abortion, at least give the little one a fighting chance?

I agree with you totally about support for unwanted babies that are born, but if abortion is seen as merely another form of birth control then surely no unwanted baby should make it past the first trimester, never mind into the third.

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that is the woman"s choice, the whole point of allowing abortions to occur. TIller is right that unless the fetus can survive outside of the womb then it is an abortion.

And her point, was that many of these procedures are done, despite the child being viable. You haven't heard about live babies being thrown in the trash? I know I have. Tiller was one of these docs that was performing the procedure, and was on record as supporting the partial birth abortion, for anyone who wanted it. He even testified about it before congress.

I don't condone his murder. I believe in life. Taking life is wrong. Not only the lives of the unborn, but of the living as well. And trying to change the subject by ranting about caring for the child after their born is rather sad. There are plenty of options for girls who can't or don't wish to be responsible for the actual raising of the child. Murdering the infant before they even have a chance in life, is simply wrong.

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Cleo,

that is the woman"s choice, the whole point of allowing abortions to occur. TIller is right that unless the fetus can survive outside of the womb then it is an abortion.

Anyway, leave it to the christian taliban types to not face the clear terrorism that is the anti-abortion cult. If these KKK retreads really cared about life they would not commit murder, but they do. The reasoning they use is the same as OBL types, there is no difference.

And again, after the child is born the anti-abortion nuts want to cut any support off for the kids, like headstart and other programs as being wasteful. Really, its a psychosis that drives the anti-abortion terrorist network, like Operation Rescue. Totally disconnected from reality.

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are these people going to raise all the unwated children they care so much about? I thought not. Abortion is a last resort but one that needs to exist legally and safely.

I agree with you that abortion as a last resort needs to be available legally and safely. But Dr Tiller who was killed specialised in third-trimester abortions; these are legal only in cases where the mother's life is at risk. There should be no 'unwanted children' as a result of stopping these late-term abortions, since if the mother is going to die without an abortion, presumably the child will not be carried to term anyway; and if she knows she does not want a child in the first place, there is no reason an abortion cannot be carried out (with much less risk to the woman's health) in the first trimester.

What muddies the waters is the fact that a very large number of these late-term abortions appear to be carried out for reasons other than the preservation of the mother's life; what should be a relatively rare medical procedure carried out to save a life - and, one would imagine, involving a woman having to be persuaded to give up her (wanted) child in order to save her own life - is offered as an elective medical service the aim of which is to simply remove an inconvenience that for some reason wasn't dealt with when it should have been. Dr Tiller himself is on record as saying that "Third-trimester abortion is simply a part of abortion ..... until you have natural survivalhood [of the fetus], the woman is the patient, not the fetus." Third-trimester termination of a pregnancy is not "simply a part of abortion". I fail to see why any woman undergoing a legal third-trimester termination would not be able to undergo a Caesarian instead.

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Hell Burak, if they did that there'd only be a handful of us left posting here...

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This Christian Terrorist should immediately be sent to Guantanamo Bay for special treatment! These extremist christians are getting to violent and threatening and should be rounded up and locked up.

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"Who is being denied rights? The unborn child or the mother?"

Uhm, call me crazy but I was thinking the medical doctor who was murdered, and his extended family.

"I think a lot of the anti-abortion people are just as horrified by it as I am."

That's easy to say, as is that a lot of these fundies are publicy denouncing it, whilst secretly thinking he got what they deserved. Note that they're all the people who are hoping for their own freaking president to fail at his job. Heh.

"I agree that its a form of terrorism, no different then the eco-nuts spiking trees up in Oregon, or the anti-fur people throwing blood. You have nutcases on all sides."

Indeed. I would have been impressed had you had the courage to tackle my point on back-street abortions the last time we met on this issue.

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TheQuestion: "In their defense no pro-life organization has offered any sort of support for the man (as that would be slightly contradictory to the 'pro-life' aspect of their organization). Although many have denounced his actions."

No defense. They are deflecting, bottom line. They are scared this man is going to hurt their cause, and that's all. When anyone has an abortion or even supports it they have no qualms about dragging those people's names through the mud and saying 'infanticide' and the like, and now they ask us all to not consider this man's actions in any political context.

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Molenir: "A lot of people view abortion as nothing less then murder. This guy going and murdering the abortion doc is murder too."

Clearly you view abortion as murder, or there would be no "...murdering the abortion doc is murder TOO"!

"I agree that its a form of terrorism, no different then the eco-nuts spiking trees up in Oregon, or the anti-fur people throwing blood. You have nutcases on all sides."

Really? Does the blood that the anti-fur people throw have bullets in it that go off and kill the people wearing fur? Otherwise, they're nothing alike at all. I DID notice, though, that you didn't say "TOO" this time when referring to the murders committed by anti-fur people.... oh wait... what murders?

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And they are only one aspect of the right-wing cancer plaguing America.

Oddly enough there is a significant number of pro-life dems and moderates.

These religeous fundie nutters really set me off. First if abortion is murder in their book that justifies murdering abortion doctors?

In their defense no pro-life organization has offered any sort of support for the man (as that would be slightly contradictory to the 'pro-life' aspect of their organization). Although many have denounced his actions.

A lot of people view abortion as nothing less then murder. This guy going and murdering the abortion doc is murder too. I don't condone either one. I think a lot of the anti-abortion people are just as horrified by it as I am.

Indeed.

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These religeous fundie nutters really set me off. First if abortion is murder in their book that justifies murdering abortion doctors? Second are these people going to raise all the unwated children they care so much about? I thought not. Abortion is a last resort but one that needs to exist legally and safely.

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teleprompter says that abortion is "infantacide". I say it's a radical that wishes to deny other people basic rights. I fail to see what "usual accusations" I'm jumping to, other than as usual, the radicals defending their own bodycount by that of an equally derranged murderer.

Who is being denied rights? The unborn child or the mother? A lot of people view abortion as nothing less then murder. This guy going and murdering the abortion doc is murder too. I don't condone either one. I think a lot of the anti-abortion people are just as horrified by it as I am.

As for all these nuts trying to make this larger then it is. I'll simply say this. There are a lot of heated words on both sides of this, don't try to see this as anything more then what it is. A doctor who was murdered. I agree that its a form of terrorism, no different then the eco-nuts spiking trees up in Oregon, or the anti-fur people throwing blood. You have nutcases on all sides.

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Yes indeed, a lone African-American blew away a military recruiter. This was a lone incident. Military recruiters are not plagued by systematic violence against them. Abortions providers have been long-term victims of frequent violence and intimidation from the anti-abortionists. Dr. Tiller himself was shot once and his clinic subject to prolonged harassment.

The violence against abortion providers has been such over the decades that it can only be called systematic. Under other circumstances Scott Roeder's "warnings" of further violence against abortion providers could be dismissed as the mere ravings of a madman. Under the circumstances as they are, they must be taken seriously, even accepted at face value.

The US ought to realize that there is a domestic enemy within--the right-wing in all its guises, from the frothy-mouthed talking heads on Fox News to the actual gun toting vermin who do the actually dirty work against truly good and brave people like Dr. Tiller.

Make no mistake: The so-called Pro Life gang are terrorists. And they are only one aspect of the right-wing cancer plaguing America.

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teleprompter at 10:10 AM JST - 8th June I mean, as long as we have people on here hyperventilating about the KKK or trying

Ah teleprompter, are you taking offense to people slamming the Klan? I hope that I have read that wrong.....

teleprompter at 10:10 AM JST - 8th June Any statements from the Muslim convert who, the day after Dr Tiller's tragic and unjustifiable murder, shot a US Army recruiter to death?

If this topic was about the slain recruiter, I bet we would be talking about it, but if I am not mistaken this thread is about;

Suspect in Kansas abortion doctor's death warns of more violence

BTW the scum bag that killed the recruiter needs to be treaty like a terrorist.

hakujinsensei at 10:23 AM JST - 8th June murder is murder. the only difference between tiller and his murderer is that tiller got paid for it.

You also forget to mention one more itsy bitsy tiny tinney difference between Doctor Tiller and the Christian terrorist that murdered him.

What Doctor Tiller was legal and needed. He saved many Women's lives by his action.

While what his Christian terrorist murderer did was illegal and vile. I am one that does not believe in the death penalty, but in the case of this Christian murderer I hope he dies sooner than later.

All traitors and terrorist should meet the same fate.......

Btw Obot2008, you beat me to the point, well said.

Madverts at 07:13 PM JST - 8th June I don't get it - why are the radicals bringing up the equally crazed shooting of a US army recruitment officer? When will they learn bringing up other people's attrocities to cover their own teams never works in Reality?

Very good point, the far right would rather pat this Christian terrorist on the back and give him more lead than follow the law.

The far right has this thin line that they follow when it comes to the law and justice.

Next time you far right winger point a finger at someone look where your other finger are pointing at....

skipthesong at 07:20 PM JST - 8th June mad, you are one of the last people that should be allowed to bring that up! And, it was not an officer, it was a private just out of basic.

Attempting to hijack a thread to hide what one of your terrorist has done is wrong......But isn't that like the far right, try to hide what is in front of everyone, the truth.

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skipthesong: "I think what tele was trying to do is stop you, people like you, short before you jump to your usual accusations against those who don't think like you!"

Actually, what teleprompter is doing is drawing more criticism to his 'cause' by bringing up the nonsensical and unrelated in an attempt to 'stop' others, as you say. It has ZERO to do with the topic, and as usual undermines his own comments and draws more attention to that which he does not want brought up. Bottom line.

This guy is a nutbag, and his threats from jail are doing NOTHING for the cause he supports, and that's got a whole lot of 'pro-life' people upset and trying to defer and shift focus (like teleprompter). I don't think this has a lot to do with religion at all -- just one nuts misinterpretation of it and his extreme 'solutions' -- but religion trying to bring up a bunch of other stuff and shift away focus only draws more attention to itself and is utterly self-defeating.

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skip,

"you are one of the last people that should be allowed to bring that up!"

What are you talking about?

teleprompter says that abortion is "infantacide". I say it's a radical that wishes to deny other people basic rights. I fail to see what "usual accusations" I'm jumping to, other than as usual, the radicals defending their own bodycount by that of an equally derranged murderer.

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mad, you are one of the last people that should be allowed to bring that up! And, it was not an officer, it was a private just out of basic.

I think what tele was trying to do is stop you, people like you, short before you jump to your usual accusations against those who don't think like you!

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I don't get it - why are the radicals bringing up the equally crazed shooting of a US army recruitment officer?

When will they learn bringing up other people's attrocities to cover their own teams never works in Reality?

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"hakujinsensei at 10:23 AM JST - 8th June

murder is murder. the only difference between tiller and his murderer is that tiller got paid for it"

Oh, and one other distinction. Abortion is legal, while shooting someone to death is illegal. Just thought I would help bring this issue into focus for you hakujin. I know the resolution on those zealot goggles you are wearing isn't to clear. Glad I could help you out...cheers

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telepromter: good point! Was that even on JT?

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You know in one way, this is where I supported Palin on the idea of teaching abstinence in school but not from a religious stand point. If we had more young people practicing abstinence, I think we would have less abortions, thus preventing the idea of a third trimester abortions in the first place.

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murder is murder. the only difference between tiller and his murderer is that tiller got paid for it. at some time our society is going to have to grow up and that is going to include protecting those unable to protect themselves, educating people to the value of life, and instilling values that serve to enhance our humanity and restrain that primitive cortex in the brain that extorts this kind of behavior from zealots and murderers for hire alike. I fear this is going to be a long, long, painful process.

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Fair is fair: I am pro-abortion all the way. =This quack Dr. should have been aborted a long time ago.

Way too many mouths to feed out there and too few jobs = more abortions please.

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Any statements from the Muslim convert who, the day after Dr Tiller's tragic and unjustifiable murder, shot a US Army recruiter to death? I mean, as long as we have people on here hyperventilating about the KKK or trying - I hope sarcastically - to imply that all "Anglos" are terrorists maybe the same uninformed, incurious folk need to look at the case of the recruiter's black killer.

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Anyone that is part of this terrorist movement must be hunted down the same way we are going after Al Qaida!" There won't be any Anglos left then!!!!!

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“I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal,” Roeder said.

By his own statement he is claiming to be a member of a terrorist group.

Anyone that is part of this terrorist movement must be hunted down the same way we are going after Al Qaida!

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Alleged murderer Scott Roeder was once a white separatist before he became an anti-choice zealot -- many others have followed the same deadly path. KKK and then joins the anti-abortion zealots. Same process, different target. All murderers.

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