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Swift Taliban takeover leaves U.S. image in tatters

113 Comments
By Shaun TANDON

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$2 trillion.

2 trillion and you couldn't defeat a bunch of guys in robes and sandals.

19 ( +37 / -18 )

Afghanistan isn't a real country. Just lines on a map drawn by the British cutting through ethnic, tribal and linguistic groups. The US just joined a list of powers to find out that imposing western style "democracy" through corruption doesn't work.

Still some people, US and Afghani made some money!

32 ( +39 / -7 )

Compare the military technology and hardware the US has with that of these guys in sandals riding on the back of old pick up trucks.

17 ( +20 / -3 )

Still some people, US and Afghani made some money!

And the US war and chicken-hawks will continue to push for increased military spending, so the same corporations can continue to profit.

And those same war&chicken hawks complain about infrastructure expenditures.

16 ( +21 / -5 )

Swift Taliban takeover leaves U.S. image in tatters

The above sensational headliner seems to insinuate someone is to be blamed, - BIDEN!, as Trump Republicans and their ilk would have us believe, whereas Afghanistan has been unraveling for the last 20 years since the USA and the "international community" were unwilling and unable to build a sovereign state that enjoyed the trust of its people. Biden simply dotted Trump's aye and brought the curtain down on the whole tottering Afghan house of cards. The only consolation to be had from this debacle is the faint hope, like a candle in the wind, that the new generation of the Taliban will have learned from past mistakes and be prepared to steer its rigid medieval course away from the Koran and into the modern world order of the 21st century.

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

What a humiliating disaster.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

Does the USA won any war after WWII.

12 ( +20 / -8 )

Gerald Ford 40 years ago had his moment in Saigon, current president get his moment too.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/567872-the-biden-fall-of-saigon-media-narrative-in-afghanistan-presents-worst

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The USA was insanely STUPID to keep boots on the ground after they got bin laden, THAT should have been the ONLY goal for this region, but no the idiots to be were just well idiots.

Only a fool didnt know the taliban would be back as soon as the USA left, could see this from the very beginning, what a colossal failure.

19 ( +22 / -3 )

We’re good at taking out bad guys, but the removal creates a power vacuum that gets filled by people wearing sandals.

In Iraq, the vacuum was filled by the al-Qaeda. In Libya, it was filled by militant groups. In Afghanistan, the Taliban returns and there is also the ISIS.

In the end, it’s “I’m tired. Going home.”

15 ( +17 / -2 )

I’m tired. Going home.”

Yes this applies perfectly to the actions of the US President during this crisis.

-1 ( +16 / -17 )

Who care about the image on the world stage? In my opinion each nation should stick to their own national security and affairs. Why meddle in other countries? Is a thankless job. I think the US have enough problem at home already.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Compare the military technology and hardware the US has with 

Once again the latest US loss in Afghanistan should show that it's not always about weapons and technology. Look at the US"s failure in Vietnam and the USSR's failures in Afghanistan, the French loses in Vietnam and Algeria. Among others.

One of the lessons that should be learned by the US losing again, is that any invading empire, regardless level of weaponry and technology, can be defeated by peoples willing to fight to the death to defend their homes and homeland against outside forces especially when members of those invading forces have nothing to gain personally.

(A possible exception was Japan losing the Pacific War and being thoroughly defeated because the Allies had vastly superior military technology. Even though Japan's citizens were fighting a holy war to support their Emperor plus support the country's ruling caste and corporations, while also defending each individual's home.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

The above sensational headliner seems to insinuate someone is to be blamed, - BIDEN!,

Without a doubt and that’s a gross understatement.

as Trump Republicans and their ilk would have us believe, whereas Afghanistan has been unraveling for the last 20 years since the USA and the "international community" were unwilling and unable to build a sovereign state that enjoyed the trust of its people.

Some of that is true, but one of the main goals was to prevent Afghanistan from becoming a breeding ground for staging and plotting terror attacks on the US and the rest of the West and now that seems that might come to fruition and this just before the 20th anniversary of 9/11 The administration should have never hastily and in one lump sum just evacuate without any contingency forces present, we’re not even fully withdrawn and are taking fire and are staff are told to seek shelter. There was no thought or planning that went into this

Biden simply dotted Trump's aye and brought the curtain down on the whole tottering Afghan house of cards.

The Trump administrations goal was to never allow the Taliban to take over Trump was specific about even though he was adamant about wanting to withdraw our forces, so that is true, Biden followed up just without the provisions to ensure a safe exit strategy. Biden told us last week that the possibility of the Taliban taking over is impossible, the Afghan military is the best trained and best equipped, best prepared and there is no way that they would be able to take over the country. And look what happened. There were no threats, no promise of retaliation if our people or allies are harmed in any way. Obama took the exact same approach with Iraq and left a vacuum with no contingency force and that led to the rise of ISIS and now and under this administration we’re doing it again.

The only consolation to be had from this debacle is the faint hope, like a candle in the wind, that the new generation of the Taliban will have learned from past mistakes

No, in fact, it’s worse and there are already reports of rape, beheadings, amputations and if anything the Taliban are now more emboldened and confident to enforce Sharia and to branch out and possibly plot new and future terror attacks on the West. This is 100% on Biden. If this administration wants to take credit for every political win, he needs to equally take credit for every loss and to shove the blame on the former President for the decision he chose and still defends is just astonishing and where is Biden? Where is he while we are once again watching our choppers leave in a blitz and leave everything behind including documents, military equipment, some of them new for the Taliban to use or even sell or share with the Chinese, Iranians or even the Russians and Pakistanis. Biden just showed the world how weak the US has become and the lack of will it has to fight, take on and tackle radical Islam or even help the Afghanis that helped us over the last 20 years and God help those people that can’t make it out. This is just the absolute worst and the lack of care and cowardice of this run and abandonment will remain a stain on this President and nation forever.

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

They never meant to win. They meant to spend the money and destabilize the region. Oh but they got Osama, the pretext for the war! Sickening. How many died?…

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Dems- "Dont politicize this!" followed by, "its mostly Trumps fault!"

Also Dems-

"The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action."

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

Once again the latest US loss in Afghanistan should show that it's not always about weapons and technology. Look at the US"s failure in Vietnam and the USSR's failures in Afghanistan, the French loses in Vietnam and Algeria. Among others

When you have weak leadership and no resolve or will to push to win any war you are destined for failure.

One of the lessons that should be learned by the US losing again, is that any invading empire, regardless level of weaponry and technology, can be defeated by peoples willing to fight to the death to defend their homes and homeland against outside forces especially when members of those invading forces have nothing to gain personally.

The Germans and the Japanese thought so as well.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

North Korea don't need nukes. Just hire the Taliban. They have seen off the Russians, the US and other Western forces and have now taken control of an entire nation in a week.

There is more to winning some wars than having lots of nukes, and more expensive fighter jets than anyone else. A 'forever war' is simply a war you are not competent enough to win.

And if you have not won, however many euphemisms and rationalisations you come up with, you have lost.

In the light of this, and their desertion of the Kurds, Japan might like to ask for a discount on the amount the US charge them for 'protection'.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Biden should take to Twitter to start a cat fight with a celebrity whilst binge watching “Fox” News on the way to another round of good at taxpayer expense. That will get the Trump supporters to stop their incessant, hypocritical whining given they loved it when Trump handled problems like that.

2 ( +13 / -11 )

"President Biden is expected to address the nation in the next few days about the crisis in Afghanistan, an administration official says"

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Cannot disagree with that, abandoning our partners just because someone desperately wanted a Nobel Prize was cowardly.

Obama got one for being Obama, what’s that all about? The Nobel has also turned into an irrelevant political joke.

Donald wanted the troops gone by May, imagine what a bigger mess that would have been.

Well, no. He wanted the troops out and I supported and many Americans did, but they had contingency plans in place and were specific about the Taliban re-emerging in that country. This is all on Biden, he’s the President, he gave the order, no one put the details or the words in his mouth, no one put a pen in his hand and forged his signature, it was all on Joe. He owns it, and this will be his legacy of how he gave up, ran and gave the Taliban a huge, huge victorious win.

All the analysts talking about how poorly trained the Afghan military and police are, I wonder if the cat had their tongue the last few years!!!

That’s true, they were trained, not poorly, the men were just weak and one complaint was that it didn’t matter how much you would train them, about a week later the Afghan soldiers would forget a lot of their training, so there were a lot of concerns whether the Afghan army would ever be ready to take on the Taliban should the occasion arise and now we are seeing how fast their folding. They don’t want to die, but once the Taliban get their hands on them they will wish they would have died in battle.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Nice, this war had been useful to transfer money from the US pleb to the commanding few. Not sure why they are stopping though, not profitable enough anymore ? Guess they'll need to find something new, or are they planning for something bigger ?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

We can talk about how it's someone else's fault till we are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is that the United States failed terribly. We did not go in with overwhelming force as Colin Powell advised, We enabled a drug addict and a sociopath as president who put in an utterly corrupt government at all levels. We negotiated in good faith with the Taliban who are utterly un-trustworthy.

And worst of all, we abandoned an entire generation of women to virtual enslavement.

This is failure of the first order of magnitude across multiple administrations of both parties and that includes Biden. He rightly bears partial responsibility for this disaster.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

And you guys are fighting about Dems, republicans, Trump, Biden, whatever. Don't you see you're being controlled ?!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Now we see why this should not have been done.

“I was detained in Guantanamo bay camp for several years”, says one of the Taliban leader inside the presidential palace in Kabul."

KABUL, Afghanistan — Five members of the Afghan Taliban who were freed from the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for captured American Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl have joined the insurgent group’s political office in Qatar, Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said Tuesday.

For several years there were rumors that the Obama Presidency's negotiations with the Taliban hinged over the release of these men.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

The relationship is very good that I have with the mullah. We had a good long conversation today and, you know, they want to cease the violence. They’d like to cease violence also.”

~Trump on his claim the Taliban is against violence

Let us not forget when America’s image started going down the drain, it’s when the former guy thought he could convince the taliban to recommend him for a Nobel!!

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Foreign national are responsible for their own liberation,we as American can only give moral support,but at the end of the day ,citizen have to liberate their ownselves

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Right, this is all Trumps fault. Joe has done a wonderful job.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Let us not forget when America’s image started going down the drain, it’s when the former guy thought he could convince the taliban to recommend him for a Nobel!!

When the President that got the Nobel and went on an apology tour and told the ME we were wrong and then allowed our military stand back, not engage, not invest more into it, allowed China to catch up to us, no goal in Iraq, left a vacuum and capitulated to all of our enemies appeased them and not engage them and would never define or call out the enemy or even use the word “terrorism.” For 8 years that cowardice is what led to the image of the US might weakening.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

The pubs were smart with both Iraq and now Afghanistan - they negotiated a pull-out of both countries at a date when the Democrats were in office, then expressed outrage at the Democrats for dare following through with the agreements the Republicans made.

Smart political maneuvering. They're complete idiots if they think we take their faux-outrage as anything more than political hackery though.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

WakarimasenToday  09:30 am JST

Right, this is all Trumps fault. Joe has done a wonderful job.

Well, it wasn't Biden who got the Pakistanis to release the Taliban's co-founder in 2018. Still - it wouldn't be fair to lay the blame for two decades of failed policy at that door of either Trump or Biden, although it's not clear right at the moment what good Trump managed to do if after four years of his administration the situation is the worst it's ever been since 2001.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Has there ever been a country more pathetic at foreign policy than the US in the history of humanity? Honest question. Just sayin'

7 ( +12 / -5 )

For 8 years that cowardice is what led to the image of the US might weakening.

It was more like four years of cowardice , when our allies realized the president would publicly declare he believed putin over his own military.

Who will trust a country where the president publicly disses its military, calls veterans losers….

1 ( +8 / -7 )

And the US war and chicken-hawks will continue to push for increased military spending, so the same corporations can continue to profit.

And those same war&chicken hawks complain about infrastructure expenditures.

Yup, don't forget about Chicken Hawk Dick Cheney!

7 ( +10 / -3 )

No, it's not Saigon... That was a more organized force heavily backed/armed by China.

Here in the resident's own words:

“The Taliban is not the North Vietnamese army,” Biden said. “They’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability.”

“There’s going to be no circumstance where you are going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan,” he added. “It is not at all comparable.”

2 ( +5 / -3 )

 they negotiated a pull-out of both countries at a date when the Democrats were in office, then expressed outrage at the Democrats for dare following through with the agreements the Republicans made.

Another repeat of Iraq, the due date is fine, but as in with Iraq, not leaving a contingency force present is a recipe for disaster, now if you want to talk about Bush going in a screwing up Iraq, can't argue that, if you want to push the argument that Obama screwed up leaving Iraq by not leaving a contingency force, won't argue that as well or the fact that he even decided to go into Afghanistan, but was the objective? Was it to win or to ensure that the Taliban remained destabilized as a fighting force? All Biden had to do was tune out the Washington progressive doves in his party and at least listened to his generals and not the politically driven woke ones because if he listened to those idiots, it's a no-brainer that we would get the outcome we are seeing now, leave a sizable force and do a withdrawal, but there should always have been a small force present to keep the Taliban under an acceptable amount of control.

It was more like four years of cowardice

Leaving Iraq the way we did, yes. No one told Obama to enter into Afghanistan, he made that decision.

when our allies realized the president would publicly declare he believed putin over his own military.

Well, no he had a specific plan of leaving a small force in place former Gen. Jack Keane was reiterating that point in detail today. But it never happened, Schumer, Graham, Grassley, and a few other Generals at the Pentagon stopped that.

Who will trust a country where the president publicly disses its military, calls veterans losers….

Well, since this happened on Biden's watch, it's all on him, the left can hate on Trump, try very hard to pin this on him which is absolutely impossible, Democrats can't take or choose credit when it suits them or deny and run from a disaster they don't like, it makes them look more childish than they are, the blame is on Biden and even some of the liberal pundits were crying foul on this admin. for trying to cover and dodge and deflect on Biden's devastating decision.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

The political left leaning Washington Post succinctly hits the nail on the head by calling this a biden failure which will last his presidency.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/15/twenty-years-afghanistan-mistakes-this-preventable-disaster-is-biden/

To be fair, this article also mentions all the previous president's failures in Afghanistan, but the Washington Post squarely pegs this on biden as it didn't have to happen this way.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Whether occurring during a Democrat or Republican administration, what we're witnessing in Afghanistan was inevitable. Too bad it happened about 18 years too late.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

If we are talking the blame game, I’d like to put Bush, Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld’s names front and center. They are the ones who got the US into this mess and the Iraq mess 20 years ago. Its been a hot potato for administrations ever since, Obama, Trump and Biden were all handed an impossible situation by those idiots.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Whether occurring during a Democrat or Republican administration, what we're witnessing in Afghanistan was inevitable. Too bad it happened about 18 years too late.

Yes.

Ask the people here having a go at Biden what their long term plan for Afghanistan is. Up to now I’ve heard nothing constructive. Kicking the can down the road is about the best they can come up with.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Leaving Iraq the way we did, yes. No one told Obama to enter into Afghanistan, he made that decision.

The occupation of Afghanistan began under Bush.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

No one told Obama to enter into Afghanistan, he made that decision.

Are you under the impression that the war in Afghanistan, that started twenty years ago under Bush Jr., is... Obama's fault?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

No one told Obama to enter into Afghanistan, he made that decision.

As I mentioned in the other thread, even if you weren’t born in 2001, you’d still would know when the Afghan war started.

This is really embarrassing, better read up.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

No one told Obama to enter into Afghanistan, he made that decision.

Though I do remember you claiming that you covered the Afghan war for NBC.

Must have been the Soviet one I guess!!!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Joe could have repudiated the withdrawal like he has most of Oranges other goos work. Instead he botched it by breaking the deal and then making a hash of the withdrawal.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Obama screwed up leaving Iraq by not leaving a contingency force, won't argue that as well or the fact that he even decided to go into Afghanistan, but was the objective? Was it to win or to ensure that the Taliban remained destabilized as a fighting force?

Your hyper partisanship has you all twisted up. Obama did not decide to go into Afghanistan; that was one of your right ring heroes.

All Biden had to do was tune out the Washington progressive doves in his party and at least listened to his generals and not the politically driven woke ones because if he listened to those idiots, it's a no-brainer that we would get the outcome we are seeing now, leave a sizable force and do a withdrawal, but there should always have been a small force present to keep the Taliban under an acceptable amount of control.

Yes, a “sizable” force would would have been able to keep the Taliban under control. Uhhh, it would have had to have been the same size as the force that was there before the draw down. You love shouting they Biden is a warmonger and weak. Choose a horse and rice it instead of simply trying to get digs in at liberals/dems.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

leave a sizable force and do a withdrawal,

?

So do a withdrawal but leave a sizable force?

but there should always have been a small force present to keep the Taliban under an acceptable amount of control

What happened to the sizable force earlier in the sentence?

This is what happens when you try to get underneath the partisanship.

Can any of those attacking Biden here offer something at least understandable? I’ll even accept hypocrisy.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

dont remove the troops until everyone is safely out and all the visas are processed for those who helped us.

Keep to the deadline that Trump negotiated in May.

Dont leave the air base in the middle of the night at month and a half ago without telling anyone.

Dont try to be a virtue signaling poser and publicly link the withdrawal to the 20th anniversary of 9/11. (now the world gets to watch the Taliban burn down the US embassy on 9/11)

Have the military focus on military operations.

Actually cut your vacation short and show your face on TV and give a speech to own your disastrous blunder.

Need more?

Can any of those attacking Biden here offer something at least understandable?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Biden is the perfect person to blame. You can always say that Obama and Trump had to play the cards they were dealt, but Biden actually dealt the cards himself. As a leading senator for decades, he has been a strong supporter of every war the US has gotten involved in. If he is "fixing" the situation, it is a situation he helped create.

I am only surprised that he actually pulled out, but he does what he is told by his paymasters, whoever they are.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

It might not be Saigon, but it sure does look like it.

Was there a better way to leave Afghanistan than pulling the plug like this?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Blacklabel

I think Bass is saying leave a sizable ( or small? ) force in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban in check. This is the key point.

Do you believe that’s a good idea? You didn’t cover that vital point.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It is a pointless resorting to the blame game.

Regardless of one political affiliations. For twenty years successive US Presidents have had to deal with the political costs of the Afghanistan war, in lives, plus all the economic realities.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

leave a sizable force in place to cover the announced withdrawal. Its not 9/11 yet, right?

All the civilians leave, all visas are processed, the Embassy safely and securely closes, we secure all of our weapons that we dont want falling into Taliban hands, then the troops leave.

But instead, we just left Bagram airbase in the middle of the night 1.5 months ago.

And now people are being heloed out from the roof of the embassy in a panic. The airport is in total chaos.

We heard from the Taliban already, have heard nothing from Biden.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Can any of those attacking Biden here offer something at least understandable?

Yeah. The guy has been a failure his entire life only to be held up by the leftist propaganda machine. It's VERY easy to see and VERY easy to understand.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Does the USA won any war after WWII.

If you want to talk about tactical victories, every US war post WW2 has been a slam dunk, with enemy casualties more than 10 times higher than US casualties.

The strategic victories are a different story, as politics and anti-escalation strategies had the actual troops fighting with one arm and blindfolded.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

No, it's not Saigon... That was a more organized force heavily backed/armed by China.

And also backed by the Soviet Union, whose corporations and government agencies were hawks and vultures in Vietnam during and right after the war. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1996-09-01/soviet-union-and-vietnam-war

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Can any of those attacking Biden here offer something at least understandable?

Yeah. The guy has been a failure his entire life only to be held up by the leftist propaganda machine. It's VERY easy to see and VERY easy to understand.

Yes, very constructive. Helpful as always.

leave a sizable force in place to cover the announced withdrawal. Its not 9/11 yet, right? 

All the civilians leave, all visas are processed, the Embassy safely and securely closes, we secure all of our weapons that we dont want falling into Taliban hands, then the troops leave.

I see. Then Afghanistan falls into Taliban hands?

You know you’d be here at that point calling Biden a failure, don’t you?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

So do a withdrawal but leave a sizable force? 

Yes, like In many other parts of the world, Japan included. You ok?

This is what happens when you try to get underneath the partisanship. 

Well, the Dems never liked it.

Can any of those attacking Biden here offer something at least understandable?

Joe’s decision wasn’t understandable to put it mildly.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Though I do remember you claiming that you covered the Afghan war for NBC.

Yes.

leave a sizable force in place to cover the announced withdrawal. Its not 9/11 yet, right? 

All the civilians leave, all visas are processed, the Embassy safely and securely closes, we secure all of our weapons that we dont want falling into Taliban hands, then the troops leave.

But instead, we just left Bagram airbase in the middle of the night 1.5 months ago. 

And now people are being heloed out from the roof of the embassy in a panic. The airport is in total chaos. 

We heard from the Taliban already, have heard nothing from Biden.

And you won’t or from his…..VP, but you never hear from her anyway.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

So do a withdrawal but leave a sizable force? 

Yes, like In many other parts of the world, Japan included. You ok?

Okay. A ‘sizable’ force.

How long do you think they should stay? No time limit?

Are you sure you never said the US should pull out of Afghanistan?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

no I would be praising the timely, safe, orderly withdrawal that we were promised. All our people would be out, Afghans who helped us would have visas, our weapons and secret documents would be secured.

Once we were 100% gone and after the deadline has passed, then if the Taliban takes over we wouldnt care. Biden would be praised for bringing our troops home and dealing with this crisis effectively.

But instead, they took over while we are still there and before the deadline, and while Biden is on vacation. We are evacuating people from the roof of the embassy. I dont see why you cant understand how bungled this is from the missing Biden.

I see. Then Afghanistan falls into Taliban hands?

You know you’d be here at that point calling Biden a failure, don’t you?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Image of US in tatters on one hand and a country itself in tatters on another.

Declare the end of war

Pull out Military

Evacuate Civilians and allies

If only "We did it Joe" had done it in reverse order, another country in the region would not be in tatters.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How long do you think they should stay? No time limit? 

Maybe and depending on various conditions, but for the foreseeable future, possibly-indefinite.

Are you sure you never said the US should pull out of Afghanistan?

Yes, but you leave a small sizable force.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Afghans who helped us would have visas, 

Actually many of them would have been out of the country long ago if the previous administration hadn't decided to drastically but their visa approvals because...? Brown people are scary? I guess that was the argument at the time.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/trump-immigration-crackdown-visas/565949/

But yeah, it's all Biden's fault.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Once we were 100% gone and after the deadline has passed, then if the Taliban takes over we wouldnt care. Biden would be praised for bringing our troops home and dealing with this crisis effectively.

Of course he would. You’d be on here extolling the brilliance of Biden.

To quote Biden, ‘Come on…’

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

no they wouldnt have been out of the country as they were still working in 2018. and there was no indication that we would be leaving Afghanistan at that time.

It would have made no sense to fly all of our interpreters and translators to the USA at that time.

failed logic. cant we just focus on holding Biden accountable?

2018/07

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

a small sizable force

A small but sizable force, eh? Is it like a large but minimal presence?

This just gets better.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

“I’ve read Mao Zedong. I’ve read Karl Marx. I’ve read Lenin,” Milley said.

....and? You would rather have a general that can't read?

How does Critical Race Theory help? 

I have no idea, why are you bringing it up? Are you under the impression that people only have a very limited capacity to store information in their brain? And that if Milley reads a book called "White Fragility", he automatically can't learn anything about Afghanistan or Irak anymore? That's a very strange argument you're making. About a man you know absolutely nothing about, of course. Except what your propaganda machines tell you to bark at.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

the result was what most people wanted, our troops out of Afghanistan.

What we didnt want was HOW this was done. Troops out first, weapons and documents abandoned, civilians still trapped there.

I can praise and support the WHAT (troops out), but not if the when and the how gets bungled by Biden. as he has done here. Even people who support Biden had no idea that the missing Biden could have possibly handled this so poorly.

Of course he would. You’d be on here extolling the brilliance of Biden.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

unless he can read two books at the same time, then no he wouldnt be learning about Iraq or Afghanistan or any war strategies while he spends weeks/months reading all of these unrelated books.

And that if Milley reads a book called "White Fragility", he automatically can't learn anything about Afghanistan or Irak anymore?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Trump gave Taliban the power. It’s all his fault.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

A small but sizable force, eh? Is it like a large but minimal presence? 

Hmmm, works in Japan and Germany so….

This just gets better.

Not while this guy is in the WH.

Biden could cure cancer

He didn’t, he worsened the prognosis

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

no they wouldnt have been out of the country as they were still working in 2018. and there was no indication that we would be leaving Afghanistan at that time.

Somebody hasn't even clicked on the article I helpfully posted, apparently. Let me repost it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/trump-immigration-crackdown-visas/565949/

America has been giving special visas to iraki and afghani translators for years, getting them out of their respective countries as soon as possible during the war. And this program has been all but completely stopped by the Trump administration. So all the thousands of helpful translators that were supposed to be out of Afghanistan since 2018 are now still stuck there. The troops withdrawal is mostly irrelevant for the vast majority of them.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

unless he can read two books at the same time, then no he wouldnt be learning about Iraq or Afghanistan or any war strategies while he spends weeks/months reading all of these unrelated books.

Oh, so now you think that people... Can't read books consecutively? Mark Milley is 63 years old, you think he didn't have time at least 57 years to read... Several books? That really is a profoundly distrubing argument you're making. You seem to think reading books is such an incredible feat that I'm starting to believe you've never read a single book in your life.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

nope. Biden was supposed to bring them out of Afghanistan now as part of the withdrawal plan.

If thousands would have been taken out in 2018, what would we have done between then and now for translators? come on man, its the Atlantic Magazine that you are posting.

its Biden's blunder, deal with it.

So all the thousands of helpful translators that were supposed to be out of Afghanistan since 2018 are now still stuck there.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

yet this is what Milley said.

couldnt have been more wrong than if he was just guessing.

The Afghan Security Forces have the capacity to sufficiently fight and defend their country, and we will continue to support the Afghan Security Forces where necessary in accordance with the guidance from the president and the secretary of defense.

The future of Afghanistan is squarely in the hands of the Afghan people, and there are a range of possible outcome in Afghanistan. And I want to emphasis repeatedly, and I’ve said this before, a negative outcome, a Taliban automatic military takeover, is not a forgone conclusion. We will continue to monitor the situation closely and make adjustments as necessary.

Underestimated the military capability of the forces he trained. Didnt support them with air strikes, abandoned the air base already when he said this. Didnt make "adjustments". There WAS an automatic Taliban takeover.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

and now we have US citizens who are trapped and cant make it to evacuation.

Better get the plane full of pallets of cash ready to go.

Cotton spokesman says that their office has heard from multiple US citizens in Kabul trapped behind Taliban checkpoints, who can’t safely reach the US perimeter and have no clear option for what to do.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Biden was supposed to bring them out of Afghanistan now as part of the withdrawal plan.

No, he wasn't. Again, America has been granting special visas to those type of translators since 2007. This is a historical fact and I fail to understand why you would even try to deny it?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/09/10/afghan-translators-risked-lives-deserve-us-immigration-visas-column/1204853002/

Since 2007, the United States has awarded visas to Iraqi and Afghan citizens who risked their lives working for U.S. forces. Collectively known as the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) program, this effort has likely saved tens of thousands of former U.S. military interpreters from death at the hands of our enemies. 

Yet Reuters reported recently that the Trump administration has added an additional layer of vetting that has all but choked off this lifeline to some of our most faithful friends.

If thousands would have been taken out in 2018, what would we have done between then and now for translators? 

They would have used other people. Because a lot of Afghani can speak English.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Contrary to popular opinion, Biden did do the right thing here.

If Trump has actually done this, the conservatives would applaud him. Biden is doing a Nixon.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Have to say its pretty pathetic watching yanks pointing fingers at Dems & Repubs......I got news for ya'll ......YA'LL have messed this up royally! The US, all of you have totally messed up as far as Afghanistan is concerned OWN IT!!! And stop bickering like a bunch of babies!!

There said what was needed to be SAID!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Gw. Chances are your country was there too. But hey. No problem. Run from it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Yes, but you leave a small sizable force.

This is classic! It's almost as if Trump is in the room with us. I can see the arms waving around.

Should the small sizable force also be lightly heavily equipped?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

bass4funkToday  11:39 am JST

A small but sizable force, eh? Is it like a large but minimal presence? 

Hmmm, works in Japan and Germany so….

Yes, 25,000 troops in Japan is a small force. 35,000 troops in Germany is definitely a small force.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Usa was defeated the day it invaded. Another massive mistake by Bush and Cheney that cost trillions and 20 wasted years.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Should the small sizable force also be lightly heavily equipped?

Be serious.

This is an innocuously dangerous situation.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Secretly provide arms to the Afghan mujahideen -- stinger missiles -- and you reap what you sow. The line through 9-11, then on to this disgraceful abandonment of a nation delivers a US made humanitarian disaster that can be traced to that very decision. Operation Cyclone, 1979 to 1989, the CIA operation that just keeps on giving.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Be serious. 

Always am, that’s my problem.

This is an innocuously dangerous situation

That Biden will have to deal with for the rest of his life. The blowback will reverberate for years and years.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Utterly predictable. An incompetent U.S. president orders a hasty withdrawal before the Afghanis are ready and he completely ignores his military commanders, who advised him that some troops should remain in order to ensure stability.

Only a matter of time, if it hasn't happened already, that girls in Afghanistan won't be able to learn how to read and write in school anymore, and women won't be able to attend university -- so I don't want to hear this sorry excuse of a U.S. presidential administration say that they stand for women and girls.

And that, bad as it is, isn't even the worst thing that will happen in Afghanistan now that the Taliban thugs are back in power.

I remember back when Obama said, "Never underestimate Joe Biden's ability to (bleep) things up."

I rarely agree with Obama either, but he was spot-on there. And as Biden was his vice-president, Obama ought to know.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This is an innocuously dangerous situation

That Biden will have to deal with for the rest of his life. The blowback will reverberate for years and years.

Yes, the blowback from this innocuously dangerous situation could have been avoided with a small sizable force left in Afghanistan.

You got it, Bass.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

That’s a new low in logical analysis, even for a Republican,

Not really, it’s the truth and I’m not a Republican.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

To some observers, the debacle following the withdrawal of U.S. troops will inevitably weaken the United States on the global stage at a time when President Joe Biden was speaking of rallying democracies in the face of a rising China.

The current president doesn’t come off looking very presidential or statesman-like given the rapid disintegration of the government he just said would be able to hold their own. America is looking like a spent force liable to be blown of the stairs by a stiff wind. The president seems much more interested in domestic matters such as giving out federal benefits based on race than on maintaining America’s global standing.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Afghanistan isn't a real country. Just lines on a map drawn by the British cutting through ethnic, tribal and linguistic groups. The US just joined a list of powers to find out that imposing western style "democracy" through corruption doesn't work.

Still some people, US and Afghani made some money!

You just described all the havoc and destruction that the European Empires created in the Middle East Africa, Asia, Australia, Eastern Europe and the Americas.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wolfpack: You can’t expect us to take you seriously after you spent four years cheering Trump ceding American influence on the international stage to China and Russia.

You “conservatives” are never happy. You have no solutions, you just whine, bitch, and moan about “liberals and democrats.”

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Should have already long time fired most of the fully incompetent bureaucrats in the services and in Pentagon right after 9/11 , replaced by capable thinkers and practitioners. That didn’t happen so far, so of course constantly such ‘harvesting’ of new disasters then and now and still to come was and is further to be expected.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Wolfpack

The current president doesn’t come off looking very presidential or statesman-like given the rapid disintegration of the government he just said would be able to hold their own. America is looking like a spent force liable to be blown of the stairs by a stiff wind. The president seems much more interested in domestic matters such as giving out federal benefits based on race than on maintaining America’s global standing.

Another US embarrassment thanks to trump!

Former US ambassador to Afghanistan blames Trump for the resurgence of the Taliban

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-ambassador-afghanistan-blames-trump-taliban-resurgence-2021-8

The US has not won a war since WWII!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Democrats putting on their rubber boots/gloves and cleaning up more Republican messes like always!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Democrats putting on their rubber boots/gloves and cleaning up more Republican messes like always!

It is the pattern. Republicans crash the economy and the Democrats have to pick up the pieces.

To be fair, although Bush 2 must shoulder most of the responsibility for this almighty mess in Afghanistan, there were plenty of Democrats on board. Same with Iraq.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Started by Bush. Prolonged by Obama. Messed around by Trump and the PR nightmare blamed on Biden.

bass4funk

Yes, but you leave a small sizable force.

For years you have been calling for a 100% withdrawal of the troops. What is a small sizeable force? There are still 5,000 troops there. Not enough you think? Maybe 50,000 or 100,000?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I believe in conservative causes, but hate the party.

You have openly advocated that people vote not for conservative causes, but for the Republican party. You said that voting for Mitt Romney was the happiest day of your life (your daughter might be a bit bummed out that the day of her birth didn't come first, but that's for you and your family to sort out). Now you hate Romney. Because he defied the leader of the Republican party.

And if Romney were chosen to be the GQP nominee in 2024, you'd line up behind him again. Because when the GQP says, "jump", conservatives say, "how high, sir?"

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Biden caused this and keep it at that.

Bush and Obama will be relieved that you’ve exonerated them in the last couple of hours

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I totally believe that,

Thank you.

You have openly advocated that people vote not for conservative causes, but for the Republican party. 

We only have two parties, I’m not voting for the Democrats that’s for sure. Again, I don’t like them, but I have no choice and hopefully one day we will have an independent party and I’ll gladly vote for them.

Bush and Obama will be relieved that you’ve exonerated them 

No chance.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

This implosion is the direct responsibility of Trump and his failed/flawed agreement in 2020 that excluded the Afghan government...and set a deadline for US withdrawal...

Trump said the withdrawal was "a wonderful thing" but criticized Biden for waiting until Sep - he wanted all US troops out by last May...

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/18/politics/trump-afghanistan-troop-withdrawal/index.html

Just one more blunder to add to Syria, Hong Kong, Ukraine, North Korea, and the long list of Trump foreign policy failures over the past four years...

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

We only have two parties, I’m not voting for the Democrats that’s for sure. Again, I don’t like them, but I have no choice and hopefully one day we will have an independent party and I’ll gladly vote for them.

The Libertarian Party exists. They hew closer to what you say you want. Unless what you really want is fascism in the US. In which case, yes, the GQP is the right party for you.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

But he also stated that some troops need to remain indefinitely

So you're not in favor of full troop withdrawal?

…which Biden couldn’t dig himself out of a basement

...you're not supposed to dig yourself out of a basement. Basements are underground. Do you know what a basement is? Or perhaps you are confused about digging?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Some may wish to voice opinions along partisan lines but the truth is troop drawdown has been ongoing for some time (only around 2500 US troops were in the country when biden took over btw). Outside of the major cities was already ceding back to taliaban control. The mere fact that the US was negotiating with the taliban shows that they had no faith in the afghani government holding out or that the afghan military would prevail. Pretty sure the afghan military deserted as soon as they could and most probably joined the taliban. When do you say enough is enough, the only reason the afghani government exists is because of foreign military backing. Good luck to the afghan people, they are going to need it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Libertarian Party exists.

Not conservative enough

So you're not in favor of full troop withdrawal?

I am with a small and sizable force. Germany and Japan are fine.

...you're not supposed to dig yourself out of a basement. 

And Biden dug this mess and will live out his days as the man the screwed our Troops and the people in Afghanistan that risked their lives to help us.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The Libertarian Party exists.

Not conservative enough

Cool, got it. It's full fash for you.

I am with a small and sizable force. Germany and Japan are fine.

You cannot have "full troop withdrawal" and still have troops there.

Do you understand what it means when people say, "you cannot have your cake and eat it"?

And Biden dug this mess and will live out his days as the man the screwed our Troops and the people in Afghanistan that risked their lives to help us.

You're the guy who said troops are idiots and that you laugh when they die.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

bass4funk

I am with a small and sizable force.

What numbers are a small sizable force? 5,000, 10,000, 50,000?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You cannot have

Yes, you can. Look at Japan and Germany

You're the guy who said troops are idiots and that you laugh when they die.

Hardly.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Yes, you can. Look at Japan and Germany

The US has not had a "full withdrawal" of troops from either country. Because there are troops there.

Hardly.

They were your literal words.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Express Sister

Do you understand what it means when people say, "you cannot have your cake and eat it"?

Well, BIdens handlers do not understand it. You can not brag to your followers for destroying all of Trumps policies and then have no consequences.

Trump had a deal to get out on in May and keep supporting a proxy regime. All parties took part in that. Bidens handlers took the deal off the table and announced a unilateral withdrawal. That was the absolutely most idiotic and irresponsible thing you could have done. But everything Trump just had to be reversed, hadnt it!

You do not take away all credibility from a shaky proxy government and then announce a date by which you are gone. That one has to explain that to the current US regime boggles the mind.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

These are the consequences of Trump's pro-Taliban policies.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The only way to “win” in a place like Afghanistan is complete annihilation of hostile forces and permanent occupation.

However, this is not feasible for logistic, economic, moral and humanitarian reasons.

Besides, as a rule, the US does not fight wars to gain territory. It (claims to) fight wars to eliminate potential threats, maintain stability, and for humanitarian causes.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

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