world

Sydney man whipped in religious attack

64 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2011 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

64 Comments
Login to comment

@HonestDictator I hear you, I think people should be freed from any extreme faiths, beliefs etc.. as I said in an earlier post, religion is like software controlling the hardware being the mind, having a free and balanced mind then people can just focus on themselves then having to follow extreme views, no different to a cult.. As humans we shouldnt be controlled by any means and should think for ourselves not follow a certain practice or sets of beliefs which is just harmful for the mind..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Reminds me of this one apostate from Islam (from Egypt) described how difficult it was for him to leave behind his family and many of his friends because Islam was so ingrained in his society that it was like losing an arm or leg. He said he couldn't stand in front of them and go through the motions of being muslim even though his heart wasn't in it. Many of the apostates had the same kind of description, depending on where they're from and what kind of community they've lived in. Its like leaving a cult that raised you under their roof, one becomes indoctrinated (or brainwashed) to believing its the only life there is.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

From my experience, it has been some of the 3rd and 4th generation muslims that even if they're "westernised" still have extremist views as I mentioned what happened in my previous post in Michigan (also known as a "westernized" society) it wasn't a bunch of old generation codgers that were in the situation. Same as in the UK, Australia, France and more. Some of the older generations themselves are asking why the younger generations are acting like a bunch of cultists.

I can guarantee one thing, any 3rd or 4th generation "muslim" that doesn't abide by Islamic dictates, most likely is no longer a practising muslim, or is an apostate. You'd be surprised how many are either athiest, agnostic, or have joined some other faith, yet they keep up appearances of being devout just for the sake of their parents, relatives, or friends and aquaintances in a heavily religious Islamic community.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

By the way there are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation muslims that arnt westernized as well. Just because you live in a western country doesnt mean you will be westernised. There are people who came to Australia fro Vietnam 30 years ago that still cant speak english.

So you've spoken to a third or 4th gen muslim have you? yet alone befriended a muslim period?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Laws are changed yes, by the powers governing the country which is mostly dictated by liberal and labor..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

anglootaku

lol no one can implement NO laws, even if hypothetically they had a political group which they dont, forced laws are a cause of wars, colonial times etc, which of course wont ever happen..

So no laws can be implemented is that right. What are you talking about, laws are introduced and changed all the time, and they dont result in wars.

By the way there are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation muslims that arnt westernized as well. Just because you live in a western country doesnt mean you will be westernised. There are people who came to Australia fro Vietnam 30 years ago that still cant speak english.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@illsayit I doubt muslims are poor, the legitimate ones came but legitimate ways = money for visa etc, any foreigner on a student visa, business etc would have a ton of money, especially from oil rich countries, work out the math..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Second, Third and Fourth generation muslims will be very westernised, drinking alochol wearing revealing clothes etc, everyone evolves in time I guess

0 ( +0 / -0 )

lol no one can implement NO laws, even if hypothetically they had a political group which they dont, forced laws are a cause of wars, colonial times etc, which of course wont ever happen..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@HonestDictator Where did I say a lot in the US? there is a substantial amount, though they are third and fourth generation born now, so mostly westernized, the thing is the disturbed individuals arent the whole of islam though, there is the bad seeds in all places.. Im not defending anyone here, but when people start pointing fingers and labeling a certain faith, race or whatever overall isnt right.. it only produces hatred, negativity and fear to the masses

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes it was NSW not Victoria. In VIctoria they woul djust shoot her or plant drugs on her.

LOL-yeah thatd be close.

I wonder is it the softly types get that way because they feel discriminated against, perhaps economically, and fanatics play on the we are poor too, youre like us, attitude. Like I read some Phillipian(if my memory is correct) woman lawyer didnt win a case once, and to make a point she took up prostituting. Like how stupid is that, howd she even get to qualify as a lawyer. What about all those women who knew there was more money out there if they spread their legs, but struggled. And dont tell me this lawyers case was a situation where she was in such dire circumstances, like no money and on the street. Man if she could only see how much women in western countries will take before they drop to such pathetic excuses and standards, and claims. Im so poor Im a prostitute, Im so poor Im moslem. Like right, and what sob story can I pull from my back pocket.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@anglootaku the US does not have more muslims than any other country... seems you forgot nearly the entire middle east as well as some south asian and african countries. Fact is there is a large enough grouping of extremists in Islam to carry out fully organized terrorist attacks against countries that aren't even in their region. Nobody would have cared about Islam if they didn't start blowing things up, persecuting others, and even killing people in the name of their religious beliefs. On top of it they immigrate to other countries and try to implement their own religious government in an already functioning society with its own government and laws. As for the US it reminds me of the small group of evangelists that were arrested in dearborn Michigan for passing out leaflets near the gate of an Arab culture festival (Odd it wasn't named the Islamic festival, seems like they forgot that) ayear or two ago and evidence of the situation which had been recorded on video was confiscated. The group had to go to a federal court to get confirmation of their rights to freedom of speech and freedom of expression that the local police department (which seems to have a large majority of muslim police officers and chief) so blatantly stepped on. Just FYI, I'm not fear-mongering, I'm just stating what I see and hear as well as my own personal experiences and knowledge of Islamic doctrines and "beliefs". Not every muslim is out to get people, but not every muslim is willing to help others if their "faith" dictates forced subjugation of others.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think she should of removed her face gear, no one should have their face covered in public, the police have the rights to ask her to remove her facial ninja gear by all means, im sure on her passport and license she would have take off any head gear by law

0 ( +0 / -0 )

My sharia more, lovely as a summer's day...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

illsayitJUL. 21, 2011

exactly, the police werent doing their job very well were they. They should have forcefully removed the hijab in the first incident, in front of the cameras, just to be sure that her accusation didnt get out of hand.

Yeah and all the bleeding heart softly softly types would have been up in arms, the muslims would be outraged, the cop accused of racism and probably disciplined. That would end real well. At least now there are laws in place.

NSW eh-you sure? Well I guess where the police are concerned it doesnt really surprise me.

Yes it was NSW not Victoria. In VIctoria they woul djust shoot her or plant drugs on her.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So whats fishy, the woman was pulled over for a traffic offence. She was asked to remove her hijab to verify her identity and she refused. She then filed a complaint that the police officer removed her hijab, this was proven false because the incident was caught on camera. So she got charged with making a false report. She then got off that charge because she refused to remove her hijab so couldnt be identified

exactly, the police werent doing their job very well were they. They should have forcefully removed the hijab in the first incident, in front of the cameras, just to be sure that her accusation didnt get out of hand. NSW eh-you sure? Well I guess where the police are concerned it doesnt really surprise me. But, Victoria is running next to the toilet as far as their police efforts go- you dont know? Well explain to me why you dont know that?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Some people are funny, how can these people overthrow anyone? its like in the US people assumed Malcom X was going to overthrow the US and that never happened, oh and the US has more muslims then any other country, did I mention Malcom X is muslim..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Jujubeans, give this person a cookie! They just figured out the Islamist plan to overthrow the majority of western society! But people are resisting and the majority still rules unless more people convert to Islam overnight or muslim communities grow to the extreme like the loonies in the UK demanding 3 enclaves of seperate Islamic caliphates since they believe the muslim population is large enough to take over.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@spidapig

Well that's democracy. You do know democracy right? People can push for their own legislations and change the environment to best fit themselves. If you don't like it, then create an opposition, you do know what an opposition is right?

If muslims want sharia law, they can push for it. If you don't want it, you can push for opposition. That's normally how democracy works.

That's of course if you believe in democracy and not one of those in the Australia is for white people only kind of group

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Also Christians from the middle east as I said have a completely different mind set and are pro western and pro Israeli, they are more educated and dedicate a lot to the nation and economy and dont ask for special treatment at all, with muslims it depends as I said, the modern ones are different, there are a lot of sects also i.e sunni are more modern and perhaps more in Australia, the more extreme ones are the wahabi, shiat, salafi, which is the group you mentioned asking for silly demands.. but the sunnis arent bad honestly

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So l take it from your comments that you are one of these dogooders that are blind to what really happens and anyone who says otherwise is a redneck racist? Would that be an accurate summary? Or is it you havenet been back to Australia in the past 5 years? If you read and not skimmed through my comments, I did say that I know in Egypt Christians, Jewish etc there are harmed at times, I know a lot in Sydney who are Christian and born in Sydney and are highly intelligent, they tell me all the time and I sympathise with them a lot. My views are that I judge a person on a case by case basis, regardless of skin colour, race, faith etc, I think ALL people should think this way as we cant really generalise, especially to those who are modern muslims If you actually look no one was refering to illegal or legal immigrants. As far as l know most of the illegal immigrants are locked in detention centres so using that logic all immigrants that are in Australia freely wandering around are there legally. True?

Ok good to see we are on the same wave length ^_^

A couple of points here. Stop calling me mate, l am not your "mate" and its condescending when you say it in the fashion you are. Oh come on, lighten up, I was NOT being condescending at all, the thing is people can misinterpret or have assumptions on views that are text typed, whether its on a website, sms, msn, facebook etc, if we had a civial discussion in person in Tokyo some time, you would know for a fact I am a very positive down to earth person and we would have a good time talking about anything What would you call the ban on christmas and easter celebrations in schools? A good will gesture? How about all the other things mentioned, are they all good will gestures? No they are gutless politicians and civil leaders running scared of offending a minority in Australia. If you move to a country to live you abide by the laws of that country, right? Well why do these people believe that they deserve special treatment. I highly doubt it’s a ban, go look at the US, they invented ‘xmas’ for example By the way, this article is referring to whipping of their own kind not a non muslim, I read so from another source.. even with their own kind they shouldn’t harm a person whatever the case was

Australia's immigration goes in waves, first it was europeans, chinese. Then Italians after WW2, then Asians around the Vietnam war era and after and now its Africans and Mid East. Out of all of them what groups have demanded special treatment? What groups have made the demand that Australia changes to suit them? And what group has caused the most trouble. The last group yet as a nation we are still to scared to say enoughs enough. If you dont like it go back were you came from. I agree to your point and to the Egyptian Christians I know, I don’t think people should be given special treatment such as prayer rooms in universities, but at the same time they can NOT change Austraila at all, our constitution is as is, hot air is hot air, the brits wrote our constitution, the Aboriginals didn’t, yet they felt the same way about us coming into this new land, but that was by force and different during colonial times, modern day migrants come in and accept in legal ways and work, study and do whatever just like the rest of us

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Readers, please keep the discussion civil.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

anglootaku,

I am Australian and have been to the suburbs, please do explain what exactly 'happens'?

So l take it from your comments that you are one of these dogooders that are blind to what really happens and anyone who says otherwise is a redneck racist? Would that be an accurate summary? Or is it you havenet been back to Australia in the past 5 years?

"Well let me see could it have something to do with their language, culture and apperance. For example its pretty easy to tell the difference between a Somali and a Vietnamese wouldnt you say?" I meant born in Australia, as opposed to a new migrant..

Well say what you mean then.

"Yes they did and now they are having an influx of migrants from the mid east, Iraq, Afghanistan and Africa." My point being, how do you know which are legal and illegal

If you actually look no one was refering to illegal or legal immigrants. As far as l know most of the illegal immigrants are locked in detention centres so using that logic all immigrants that are in Australia freely wandering around are there legally. True?

"SO thats the point the muslims in Australia are pushing to introduce their own law, Sharia law. So they come to a country knowing its customs and laws but want to change them to suit themselves. That is my point. How would you feel if all of a sudden all Anglo Saxons residing in Japan demanded their own separate laws to Japanese law. And special treatment in terms of taxes and loans. How would that go down? I noticed you did answer that. Really, so it would NEVER happen! So the fact that christmas and easter celebrations are curtailed in public schools already, in some suburbs fast food outlets have been forced to change their menus and remove some foods because of muslim complaints, some public pools change there rules and tells swimmers to cover up or not use the facilities. Does any of that happen in Japan? Nope" Come on mate thats silly.. stop using the word 'forced' its really silly

A couple of points here. Stop calling me mate, l am not your "mate" and its condescending when you say it in the fashion you are. Ok mate! Next point, you dont like the word "forced" well stiff because that in affect is what it is. What would you call the ban on christmas and easter celebrations in schools? A good will gesture? How about all the other things mentioned, are they all good will gestures? No they are gutless politicians and civil leaders running scared of offending a minority in Australia. If you move to a country to live you abide by the laws of that country, right? Well why do these people believe that they deserve special treatment.

Australia's immigration goes in waves, first it was europeans, chinese. Then Italians after WW2, then Asians around the Vietnam war era and after and now its Africans and Mid East. Out of all of them what groups have demanded special treatment? What groups have made the demand that Australia changes to suit them? And what group has caused the most trouble. The last group yet as a nation we are still to scared to say enoughs enough. If you dont like it go back were you came from.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Um no actually if you have ever been to Australia you dont need the media to tell you whats going on just go to some suburbs. Happy to point you in the right direction if you ever go there.

I am Australian and have been to the suburbs, please do explain what exactly 'happens'?

Well let me see could it have something to do with their language, culture and apperance. For example its pretty easy to tell the difference between a Somali and a Vietnamese wouldnt you say?

I meant born in Australia, as opposed to a new migrant..

Yes they did and now they are having an influx of migrants from the mid east, Iraq, Afghanistan and Africa.

My point being, how do you know which are legal and illegal

SO thats the point the muslims in Australia are pushing to introduce their own law, Sharia law. So they come to a country knowing its customs and laws but want to change them to suit themselves. That is my point. How would you feel if all of a sudden all Anglo Saxons residing in Japan demanded their own separate laws to Japanese law. And special treatment in terms of taxes and loans. How would that go down? I noticed you did answer that. Really, so it would NEVER happen! So the fact that christmas and easter celebrations are curtailed in public schools already, in some suburbs fast food outlets have been forced to change their menus and remove some foods because of muslim complaints, some public pools change there rules and tells swimmers to cover up or not use the facilities. Does any of that happen in Japan? Nope

Come on mate thats silly.. stop using the word 'forced' its really silly

0 ( +0 / -0 )

anglootaku,

Wow so your real world knowledge is what you see on propaganda news, so I am assuming you believe every single word a news corporation dictates to the sheep masses..

Um no actually if you have ever been to Australia you dont need the media to tell you whats going on just go to some suburbs. Happy to point you in the right direction if you ever go there.

how do you know which country they are from,

Well let me see could it have something to do with their language, culture and apperance. For example its pretty easy to tell the difference between a Somali and a Vietnamese wouldnt you say?

Just because you see someone who doesn’t seem anglo saxon, are you to assume they are an illegal immigrant..?

Never said that did l? Those are your words. I said some of the immigrants are illegals that have been processed and let in to the country.

Australia did have an influx of illegal chinese and Vietnamese during the 70s until today, so how do you know which are legal and illegal?

Yes they did and now they are having an influx of migrants from the mid east, Iraq, Afghanistan and Africa.

At the end of the day, any person that goes to ANY country is subjected to their laws, these people committed a criminal offense and would be punished, look mate, think logically, they would be punished if they ran a red light, stole anything, killed someone whatever, point is, they are subjected to a law system.

SO thats the point the muslims in Australia are pushing to introduce their own law, Sharia law. So they come to a country knowing its customs and laws but want to change them to suit themselves. That is my point. How would you feel if all of a sudden all Anglo Saxons residing in Japan demanded their own separate laws to Japanese law. And special treatment in terms of taxes and loans. How would that go down? I noticed you did answer that.

Your going to extremes there mate, there is no way this would ever happen..

Really, so it would NEVER happen! So the fact that christmas and easter celebrations are curtailed in public schools already, in some suburbs fast food outlets have been forced to change their menus and remove some foods because of muslim complaints, some public pools change there rules and tells swimmers to cover up or not use the facilities. Does any of that happen in Japan? Nope.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

illsayit,

In the hijab incident-something is fishy about the police there.

So whats fishy, the woman was pulled over for a traffic offence. She was asked to remove her hijab to verify her identity and she refused. She then filed a complaint that the police officer removed her hijab, this was proven false because the incident was caught on camera. So she got charged with making a false report. She then got off that charge because she refused to remove her hijab so couldnt be identified.

And didnt that occur in Victoria? Where we all know that the police are worse than the crooks.

It actually occured in NSW. So Vic Police are crooks are they? And you know that how?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Spidapig24

You are joking arnt you, you have heard of refugees havent you. You have heard about the critisism Australia has coped in recent years when they set up offshore detention facilities for handling these illegal refugees? So before you go accusing people of being uneducated you should actually look at what happens in the real world.

Wow so your real world knowledge is what you see on propaganda news, so I am assuming you believe every single word a news corporation dictates to the sheep masses.. how do you know which country they are from, how do you know which Asians, muslims etc are legal and illegal? Just because you see someone who doesn’t seem anglo saxon, are you to assume they are an illegal immigrant..? those illegals aren’t processed and are usually sent back, the ones that are processed have legitimate means most likely, escaping dictatorship, persecution, hunted down, or whatever reason, the rest of the legal immigrants regardless of race and faith came the legitimate legal processed ways and came by planes not by illegal means. Australia did have an influx of illegal chinese and Vietnamese during the 70s until today, so how do you know which are legal and illegal?

The thing is as I said in the past, religions are kind of like a software to the hardware, without the software, the mind is free.. if you get my drift.. So you are saying that religion guides you. Sorry but religion is a crock of ****, religion is the root of a lot of the worlds trouble and religion is one of the most evil things going around, people kill, rape and maim for religion. Just because one has no religion doesnt mean they have no morals or honour or sense of right and wrong it just means that they arnt gullible.

Please re-read carefully, I agree with you, for some people it controls them but for others they should balance it, personally I think religion and state should be separate and ALL countries should focus on their economies and to spread the wealth to the people. What I mean by religion being a type of software is the fact that software controls any hard ware even in minor cases..

Let me ask you this, as a foreigner living in Japan how would you like it if l started demanding that l not be subject to Japanese law but have my own brand of law? How would you like it if l demanded from the government that because lm a minority l get special treatment like no interest home loans from banks, tax breaks from the government to start and run businesses, oh and l also dont want to have my holidays when Japan has them l want them when my religion dictates and if you dont then you are racially vilifying me. How would that go down in Japan would you like that? At the end of the day, any person that goes to ANY country is subjected to their laws, these people committed a criminal offense and would be punished, look mate, think logically, they would be punished if they ran a red light, stole anything, killed someone whatever, point is, they are subjected to a law system. If you’re an expat abroad you too are subjected to any laws, gaijins here have to respect their laws, people in general can have a lot of hot air brewing and complain, but does that resort in anything? No just a load of hot air… so for you to say sharia law be implemented?? Your going to extremes there mate, there is no way this would ever happen.. everyone has hot air, I doubt any country would change their constitution for anyone, unless there was a war and countries taken over… but as humans people can say nonsense, whether someone listens or takes them serious is less likely.. by the way watch less media, it only builds fear into you and is a method of controlling the sheep masses.. if your interested about watching a documentary, go to google video (not youtube) and type in ‘loose change’ it’s a great documentary, the media etc, its made by people in their 30s and quite detailed not boring at all

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In the hijab incident-something is fishy about the police there. And didnt that occur in Victoria? Where we all know that the police are worse than the crooks. SO as Tahoochi says, some rules. Though I love the no helmet one-youd have to be AUstralian to think that it is common sense to wear one-, and wouldnt you know it the swearing rule, so recently highlighted in, wait for it, of all places, Victoria. I tell ya the US was sold to Victoria's load of hogwash. Probably had to do with the weather and the fashion. But NSW has seen it coming for a long time, Id guess, theyve been trashed by their 'below the border' compatriots once too often Id say, and the US better wake up to that. And wouldnt you know it, this happened in NSW. I hope we see the results that are deserved.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Its old as the hills and twice as dusty, "when in Rome...". As Disillusioned has pointed out, the issues with Islam is not so much the people that practise it, but the fact that they don't understand they can't live out their "religous" ideologies when it breaks the laws of the country they live in. They can't beat their wives, they can't murder and expect it to be accepted as "honour killings", they can't live by their own "laws" that run in direct confrontation to the laws of the country and society they've put themselves under. The truth about religion isn't about governing others, it is for a person to govern THEMSELVES. When a person tries to implement their religous "laws" on others, they're not governing themselves, they're putting themselves well beyond their right to religious beliefs. Islam just keeps on proving itself for the poisonous vile anti-social subjugative religious political ideology it is.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

.....forgot to say: not that I condone this guy Cifci's actions whatsoever, or excuse him for any religious reasons in this case.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

kchoze: I guess my point was that yes, laws are laws and must be followed no matter what, but some laws, whether they stem from religious reasons, or cultural/social reasons, can be very questionable. For example, many states in the US don't require motorcycle riders to wear a helmet. This is a law (or lack thereof) based probably on the American culture and their image of "freedom", but just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Another example is swear words; they are banned in the general media in most western countries... why? Christianity. Now, you may be following every single law to a "T" where you live, but saying that "fair doesn't matter" seems a little ignorant to me. There are exceptions to every rule.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

At the end of the day Disillusioned said it best, you live in Australia you live under Australian law.

If you come to a country you live by their rule of law, you dont go around introducing and following your own law if you want to follow Sharia law go to a country that practises that law.

anglootaku,

No countries are 'forced' to accept any migrants, whether they are from China, India, UK, Ireland, Middle East or where ever..

You are joking arnt you, you have heard of refugees havent you. You have heard about the critisism Australia has coped in recent years when they set up offshore detention facilities for handling these illegal refugees?

why do you think countries are multicultural, shortage of skilled workers, all the universities in the west are filled with people from different backgrounds, so if you dont know how economics work and why the world is becoming more multicultural, perhaps learn a little before saying uneducated guesses of countries being 'forced' to accept people.

As l said above and will expand on yes countries do accept immigrants for shortages of skills and also to study. But they also are forced to take some who turn up on their doorstep as illegal refugees. For example Australia over the last 5 years has taken on average 13,000 refugees per year in accordance with the International convention on refugees. Yet since 1982 Japan has received 4882 of which it has granted only 410 refuge status. So before you go accusing people of being uneducated you should actually look at what happens in the real world.

The thing is as I said in the past, religions are kind of like a software to the hardware, without the software, the mind is free.. if you get my drift..

So you are saying that religion guides you. Sorry but religion is a crock of ****, religion is the root of a lot of the worlds trouble and religion is one of the most evil things going around, people kill, rape and maim for religion. Just because one has no religion doesnt mean they have no morals or honour or sense of right and wrong it just means that they arnt gullible.

there is the good and bad in all cultures and faiths, im not defending these idiots, but I do know some good people who are muslim and they arent bad, they arent terrorists and they dont force their beliefs unto me

Yes there are and no one is disputing that fact.

but in life we can not judge a person based on race, faith, skin colour otherwise thats just ignorant.

See no one is judging anyone on race, faith, skin color. I am judging on actions, demands and history.

Let me ask you this, as a foreigner living in Japan how would you like it if l started demanding that l not be subject to Japanese law but have my own brand of law? How would you like it if l demanded from the government that because lm a minority l get special treatment like no interest home loans from banks, tax breaks from the government to start and run businesses, oh and l also dont want to have my holidays when Japan has them l want them when my religion dictates and if you dont then you are racially vilifying me. How would that go down in Japan would you like that?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tahoochi

I hear what you're saying, but unfortunately, the "books of law" as you call them, are based on religion in every country

More on culture than religion in most western countries, though culture is influenced by religion. Frankly, it doesn't matter if they did originate somewhat from religion, they are still laws that the secular governments enforce, and people cannot pick and choose which they will respect, nor can they choose to be judged under a different set of laws. If you don't agree to a law, then you need to campaign to change it politically. You can't just claim "I'm from a different culture, treat me differently".

If some make the argument that it isn't "fair" to muslim immigrants that the laws of Australia or other Western countries were based mostly on a judeo-christian culture, well I just don't care. These countries have the cultures that they have, and if people choose to move over there, then they have to accept that the culture of these places may not be like the cultures of the places they leave. Fairness has nothing to do with it, history led these countries to have the cultures they have now, not necessarily better or worse than others... but the fact that a lot of people want to migrate to them does seem to indicate that these cultures are not all that undesirable.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"the "books of law" as you call them, are based on religion in every country."

Actually, modern democracy and the framework it provides for a comprehensive legal system find their roots steeped deeply in ancient Greek philosophy, and not religion. Religion came along considerably later.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

kchozeJul. 19, 2011 - 11:14PM JST

I'm a deeply secular man, so "religion is no excuse" is my motto. I don't care what your holy book says, what matters is what the books of law say, the books written by the society you are part of.

I hear what you're saying, but unfortunately, the "books of law" as you call them, are based on religion in every country. For example, many western countries such as Australia, the UK and the US are countries with laws based highly on Christian beliefs. Right or wrong, that's how history has affected every country in the world. Throughout past history, present, and the future, Religion has, does, and always will create wars and countries.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wow breaking and entering + assault = good. Ok so they want to play religious games, they want to apply thier sharia law. So after the trial they should be treated to some good old Roman Christian law........have them crucified. I also would like to make a short statement about the comment Spidapig24 made about the woman refusing to take off her hijab when pulled over. In a lot of countries they would have gotten her out of the car arrested her, then she could have it forcibally (SP) removed as she smiled for her booking photos. I'm getting really sick of the "we deserve special treatment" and the "I don't have to" BS. Which directly applies to these 4 morons.....they think Austrialian law does not apply to them, they will find out differently very soon that it very much does.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@4p4nFTWJ

In the Western tradition, i.e., hailing from Ancient Greece and characterized by democracy, the academy, philosophy, etc, what constitutes "freedom" is that we make our own laws through an open process based on reason, and everyone can understand the principles of the laws on the basis of the shared social context.

In a country with a democratic government, religious dogma has no effect as law. In fact, most democratic countries have laws that stipulate a strict separation of religion and the state, precisely because a society in which there is no unity of religious belief would rapidly disintegrate into a state of chaos, leaving no state per se.

Of course, that seems to be a prominent means by which those who hold their privately held religious beliefs over the constitution of the democratic society in which they live are trying to use to subvert democracy. And supplant it with what? Theocracy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As they whipped him, did they force the guy to say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I'm a deeply secular man, so "religion is no excuse" is my motto.

I don't care what your holy book says, what matters is what the books of law say, the books written by the society you are part of. If you want them changed, then militate for that, but no way am I ever going to accept different laws for different people in the same society. Society has to come hard on any kind of people trying to impose a parallel justice system, even, or even especially, if they do so claiming divine inspiration.

To be honest, I'm not very warm to the idea of multiculturalism either. Too often, multiculturalism manifests itself as forcing the majority to hide and be ashamed of its own culture to avoid the natural process of cultural integration of immigrants and as the creation of cultural ghettos. This often results in a generally bland society where culture is defined just as food or clothes worn once or twice a year, which, to me, is a cultural wasteland, as cultures need to be lived daily to truly be alive and to evolve. Not only that, but certain extremist communities start to sprout up, and the society doesn't want to repress these extremist and dangerous cultural expressions, accepting intolerance in the name of tolerance.

I think one of the reasons I find Japan so interesting is that they're not having it. There is a strong national culture and they're not ashamed of it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Wow! Great religious debate (debacle). It is simple, live in Australia, live under Australian law. It is no different to Japan.

This wombat was whipped because he went out on the turps with a bunch of his mates. Now, his religious nutcase buddies will spend a few years in jail because of it. And, make no mistake, they will go to jail and face up to 20 years for it. I hope the get a cell that faces west. I wonder how much pork is served in Silverwater prison.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Spidapig24 No countries are 'forced' to accept any migrants, whether they are from China, India, UK, Ireland, Middle East or where ever.. why do you think countries are multicultural, shortage of skilled workers, all the universities in the west are filled with people from different backgrounds, so if you dont know how economics work and why the world is becoming more multicultural, perhaps learn a little before saying uneducated guesses of countries being 'forced' to accept people. The thing is as I said in the past, religions are kind of like a software to the hardware, without the software, the mind is free.. if you get my drift.. there is the good and bad in all cultures and faiths, im not defending these idiots, but I do know some good people who are muslim and they arent bad, they arent terrorists and they dont force their beliefs unto me. Egyptian Christians suffered a lot from Muslims, but in life we can not judge a person based on race, faith, skin colour otherwise thats just ignorant.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Spidapig24 Christians and Jewish in the middle east have a different mind set and are pro western, for your information, Christianity came from the region and still exists in large numbers, muslims havent over taken the region in the middle east..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There are many sects to islam, no different to there being many sects in Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity etc Sunni are more modern and moderate, they dont need to wear head scarves or the full garment.. I dont think any country is 'forced' I know of some muslim people who are very modern actually, this one Afghan girl I know who wears a nose ring, wears a mini skirt etc, I thought to myself hang on a minute, I often see on the news everyone wearing a blue coloured garment. The ones born in the west or second generation are different from what I have noticed @Spidapig24 you being a gaijin in Japan your considered non Japanese, so from their eyes your gaijin=multicultural

0 ( +0 / -0 )

j4p4nFTW

"People in the West continually talk about "freedom", but when confronted with a religion that does things a different way, suddenly that freedom doesn't seem to apply.

Freedom isn't absulute and all-encompassing. It comes with a boatload of responsibility. If you can't exercise your freedom responsibly, then you should be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

In the case of these four morons, holding a person down and whipping him because you don't like the way he practicies your particular brand of religion isn't a excercise of freedom. It's criminal assualt by morons.

You seem to implying that these four men are somehow being robbed of their right to practice their religion.

Well, if their religion mandates that they can assault someone for practicing differently, then yes, their freedoms can and should be officially curtailed. In this case, prison time seems more than appropriate.

Whatever these four bozos were trying to do, be it haze the man or exert some slapdash layman's version of Shiria Law, this demonstration of religious freedom that places them above the rules of the society in which they choose to live puts them in direct confrontation with what that society, and indeed the West deems as the unalienable right to not only worship whatever god one wants, but also to NOT worship, if one so chooses, without fear of reprisal from, dare I say it again, morons like these four.

Your attempt to paint Western ideas concerning freedom as hypocritical and contradictory fall far short.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Its the softly softly approach that got us into this situation and its only getting worse.

Exactly the western world needs to take a tougher stance and lay down the law in their own countrys so these other types get a clear message.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

tclh,

but softly softly approach is the way Australian government prefer to calm this very very complex society.

Unfortunately this approach seems to only do one thing and that is alienate the bulk of the community while playing into the hands of the hardline muslims and minorities. I am sick of hearing the bleating from these immigrants that say we want our own law to override Australian law, no interest loans, tax breaks for muslim businesses, to observe their own religious holidays, banning of christmas and easter celebrations in public schools. They even whine about the anthem. If Australia really is that bad then maybe they should pack their bags and head back to where they came from and let more appreciative people take their place. Its the softly softly approach that got us into this situation and its only getting worse.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I notice your point but government has already moved to pass law which give police power to remove hijab or burqa or balaclava ...in order to identify a person . It was weak , I know, but softly softly approach is the way Australian government prefer to calm this very very complex society.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

tclh,

Do you really believe that these men will get anything more than a slap on the wrist? Look at the recent case with the muslim woman who refused to remove her hijab when pulled over for a traffic offense. She then went on to claim racism against the policeman in question. Then got off because they couldnt verify if it was her or not. The Australian government and justice system is too scared of offending the Muslims to do anything about it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I hope this Muslim fool gets whipped ever day for the rest of his life in a nice Aussie jail!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Australian government has made it abundantly clear that there is only Australian law in this country , no Sharia law. If there is a conflict between the two, Australian will always win out! Drinking alcohol is perfectly legal here and the authority should make this case an unforgettable.example.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Uggg. This sort of fanatacism needs to be severly delt with, regardless of the religion in question. No tolerance.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Poor guy was probably assured by some leftist twit that Sharia Law, taking Sharia Law into your hands, was now OK with Australian authorities.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well said ExportExpert.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Islam raises its ugly head again,

A second man was arrested on Tuesday and faces similar charges, plus two counts of stealing.

If these guys like sharia law so much then this guy should lose his hand, see if he still thinks sharia islamic law is good !!!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

anglootaku,

@Spidapig24 By saying 'multi culturalism' its no different for a non Japanese living in Japan, Japanese would see us as being 'multi cultural' regardless of background and regardless how well you can speak Japanese.

Im sorry but l do not see Japan as a multicultural country. Japan (at least what l have seen of it) tries very hard to maintain its sense of self. Whereas Australia is forced to change to meet the needs of the cultures that move there. Please dont get me wrong l am not criticizing Japan here infact its one of the things l admire about the country and people.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Spidapig24 By saying 'multi culturalism' its no different for a non Japanese living in Japan, Japanese would see us as being 'multi cultural' regardless of background and regardless how well you can speak Japanese.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I feel sorry for the Christians and Jewish in the middle east, there are some modern muslims and the extreme ones, theres the good and bad in all cultures and faiths I guess, in this case, we have to focus on the individuals who did such an act, not stereotype as that is kind of uneducated to stereotype and generalize

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why can he be granted bail? He should be locked in the nuthouse, at least, it would make the so called nuts, look real.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

j4p4nFTW,

People in the West continually talk about "freedom", but when confronted with a religion that does things a different way, suddenly that freedom doesn't seem to apply.

Religion is irrelevant. If you break the law whether it be in the name of religion or anything else you still have broken the law. And most people know the law, so to use religion as an excuse to break and enter and then assault. Thats one good religion.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

People in the West continually talk about "freedom", but when confronted with a religion that does things a different way, suddenly that freedom doesn't seem to apply.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Throw the book at him -- and he'll be hoping the book isn't the Koran.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

chewitup,

Sorry about that, was just saying after all the issues with multiculturalism in Australia lately (burqa issues, and muslims seeking to introduce a version of Sharia law). Its all getting a bit ridiculous.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I don't follow Spidapig24. What does this have to do with multiculturalism? Is this a common occurence?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

AH multiculturalism at its finest!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites