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Taiwan blasts Elon Musk over latest China comments

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What a scumbag. 23 million people have a say, too.

37 ( +43 / -6 )

Simple mathematics: 14 billion people is greater than 2,300 people.

-37 ( +3 / -40 )

Ping AnToday  11:43 am JST

Simple mathematics: 14 billion people is greater than 2,300 people.

you messed up your numbers, mr.Mathematics.

1.4 billion vs 23 million.

1,400,000,000 vs 23,000,000

24 ( +27 / -3 )

Ping AnToday 11:43 am JST

Simple mathematics: 14 billion people is greater than 2,300 people.

China has a say but they better get to their invasion right now, risking a humiliating loss, tanking their economy, and MAD.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Perhaps he thinks banning it is a good policy, like turning off @Starlink to thwart Ukraine's counterstrike against Russia," Wu added, referring to Musk's refusing a Ukrainian request to activate his Starlink satellite network in Crimea's port city of Sevastopol last year to aid an attack on Russia's fleet there.

Don't hold anything back, Mr. Wu. Tell us how you really feel.

Musk really needs to learn to shut his mouth and stay in his lane.

21 ( +27 / -6 )

Elon Musk should be stopped...He is "too much socialist"...!

Too much money is cooking his brain tho...!

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Just echoing MAGA-world's values and policies...give Ukraine to Russia and let China have Taiwan...

Putin is a "genius" and Xi's being President for life is "smart"...

Trump-Putin-Xi....the "Three Tyrant Amigos"....

18 ( +23 / -5 )

Elon Musk who asserted Taiwan was an integral part of China

This be-wigged snake-oil salesman is a disgrace. Cosying up to a totalitarian regime - and denying the free independent existence of Taiwan - simply for MORE money.

Consumers with a conscience will remember this, Musk.

17 ( +23 / -6 )

Capitalism at its best. It is not about democracy or communism... only money...

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Oh dear, the narcissistic, megalomaniac, inconsequential, Musk speaks again.

23 ( +25 / -2 )

Elon Musk should be stopped...He is "too much socialist"...!

Too much money is cooking his brain tho...!

Musk's stated inspiration, the Scottish SF author Iain Banks, was a hardcore socialist and would have been appalled at Musk's turn to currying favor from rightist oligarchs or Chinese one-party capitalist planners to please shareholders.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Simple mathematics: 14 billion people is greater than 2,300 people

Indeed it is.

Simple population studies: there are not 14 billion people on the planet.

There are a lot of idiot spammers and sock puppets on X but I don’t think even they have hit 14 billion.

20 ( +22 / -2 )

Taiwan blasts Elon Musk over latest China comments

Musk is another megalomaniacal narcissistic billionaire who's adding to his riches through US government contracts, and who seems to be challenging Murdoch and Putin for being rhe most powerful voice in global media.Musk like Putin and Murdoch and other RICO US Americans has long shown he will tell and support lies to stay atop the dungheap. Similar to Rupert Coprolite and so many other US superich, Musk has zero regard for the US, it's just a country to take from and give little if anything in return, and like his RICO pals probably calls himself a patriot for doing that. Musk certainly has helped further enrich his CCP sponsors, and has probably given them lots of tech info to help grow Chinese automakers.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Musk's opinion is factually shared by 94% of the world's nation-states, representing over 99% of the world's population. I'd be interested to hear what the governments of the world, who recognize the People's Republic of China (mainland China), but not the Republic of China (Taiwan) would have to say about this. (Most likely, nothing at all.)

Right now, it's a FACT that only 12 minor countries out of 193 officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. This is FACT. Japan doesn't recognize Taiwan, nor does Korea, nor does the US or anyone in the EU. Not does the UN, not India, not the Philippines, and on and on...there IS NO "embassy" in Tokyo or outside these 12 microcountries for Taiwan, rather, there's a "Taipei Economic and Cultural Representation Office" (not even the name contains "Taiwan" or "Republic of China". but rather the capital city...why? Their athletes participate in the Olympics and other sporting events as "Chinese Taipei", again, why?)

This is the problem with the policy of "strategic ambiguity", where for decades, countries have followed the US's lead and, quote, "acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves." Does that sound like an "endorsement" of Taiwan as an independent country? Certainly not. There isn't any.

I personally am in favour of total independence of Taiwan from the mainland, but in fact, no single country of strategic importance supports this, right now. This is a problem. Musk is doing nothing more than stating the FACTUAL understanding of the world towards the Taiwan situation. A policy of brooking no violence during attempts to reunify, yes, but a policy of independence or a present recognition of independence? No.

It is what it is. I don't support "strategic ambiguity" for exactly this reason, but then again, literally NO nation of consequence presently supports or accepts recognition of Taiwan and its "independence". Facts are FACTS!

-21 ( +5 / -26 )

Mr Wu needs to chill, Musk, like all other US presidents since 1979 has confirmed one China, BUT like Musk, none has ever agreed to the CCP ruling over Taiwanese people.

For all intent and purposes, what Musk said could mean a Taiwanese president could be the legitimate ruler of the one China, one day.

I'm willing to bet the CCP is as confused as mr Wu.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

OTSUKARESAMADESUToday 12:46 pm JST

So Taiwan is a renegade province of China is well understood by Musk

Futile to argue

If Taiwan wants independence they will have to earn it instead of complaining about it

Good luck Taiwan

That was 75 years ago. Divine mandate failed then and it is gonna fail again if the CCP tries anything stupid.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

The intelligent fool speaks again. Musk needs to keep his mouth shut about how other countries function and work diplomatically and politically. This is the same guy that believes China's work-aholic requirements should be the norm in the US and those anti-suicide nets around China's skyrises and factories is a good thing. Taiwan belongs to the ROC, not the CCP.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Elon Musk is just being fair. The case for Taiwan not being part of China is uber-weak despite the attempts of the United States to adjust wording to keep it an arguable position. Arguable is very far from actually being strong, and recognizing that Taiwan is this extralegal jurisdiction the PRC suffers and acting accordingly may be the best route of keeping said jurisdiction alive for as long as possible.

-20 ( +4 / -24 )

Hito BitoToday 12:52 pm JST

Musk's opinion is factually shared by 94% of the world's nation-states, representing over 99% of the world's population. I'd be interested to hear what the governments of the world, who recognize the People's Republic of China (mainland China), but not the Republic of China (Taiwan) would have to say about this. (Most likely, nothing at all.)

It's almost as if criminal demands to access a large market pay off.

Right now, it's a FACT that only 12 minor countries out of 193 officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. This is FACT. Japan doesn't recognize Taiwan, nor does Korea, nor does the US or anyone in the EU. Not does the UN, not India, not the Philippines, and on and on...there IS NO "embassy" in Tokyo or outside these 12 microcountries for Taiwan, rather, there's a "Taipei Economic and Cultural Representation Office" (not even the name contains "Taiwan" or "Republic of China". but rather the capital city...why? Their athletes participate in the Olympics and other sporting events as "Chinese Taipei", again, why?)

Right now, it's a FACT that diplomatic recognition was stolen from Taiwan but doesn't matter hardly anything.

This is the problem with the policy of "strategic ambiguity",

You are right about the strategic ambiguity. The US should declare it will defend Taiwan if attacked and see what China does about it.

where for decades, countries have followed the US's lead and, quote, "acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves." Does that sound like an "endorsement" of Taiwan as an independent country? Certainly not. There isn't any.

Does that sound like the statement being acknowledged was even true 50 years ago? Can't acknowledge a patently false statement.

I personally am in favour of total independence of Taiwan from the mainland, but in fact, no single country of strategic importance supports this, right now. This is a problem.

It's only a problem if you secretly want to throw Taiwan under the bus.

Musk is doing nothing more than stating the FACTUAL understanding of the world towards the Taiwan situation.

No, he said nothing about diplomatic recognition of Taiwan. At least reported here.

A policy of brooking no violence during attempts to reunify, yes, but a policy of independence or a present recognition of independence? No.

That is the status quo. That is all the US and Taiwan have ever wanted. Thank you for acknowledging they are right in this dispute.

It is what it is. I don't support "strategic ambiguity" for exactly this reason, but then again, literally NO nation of consequence presently supports or accepts recognition of Taiwan and its "independence". Facts are FACTS!

Fact is Taiwan is independent in every way that matters.

19 ( +23 / -4 )

What an interesting paradox it is, that guy always fails, but is too big to fail.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Kazuaki ShimazakiToday 12:58 pm JST

Elon Musk is just being fair.

Nope, not fair to the 23 million people on Taiwan.

The case for Taiwan not being part of China is uber-weak despite the attempts of the United States to adjust wording to keep it an arguable position.

The case of Taiwan not being independent is uber-weak and dependent only on one word on one document.

Arguable is very far from actually being strong, and recognizing that Taiwan is this extralegal jurisdiction the PRC suffers and acting accordingly may be the best route of keeping said jurisdiction alive for as long as possible.

Honk Kong didn't stay alive by surrendering and neither will Taiwan.

14 ( +19 / -5 )

I stand with free Taiwan.

Down with totalitarian China.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

It can never be good for so much power to rest in the hands of just one man.

15 ( +15 / -0 )

I agree to Master Elon look he is rich

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Simple mathematics: 14 billion people is greater than 2,300 people.

The hiring criteria of the wumao brigade should henceforth include a basic ability with numbers.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Hito Bito

Musk's opinion is factually shared by 94% of the world's nation-states, representing over 99% of the world's population. I'd be interested to hear what the governments of the world, who recognize the People's Republic of China (mainland China), but not the Republic of China (Taiwan) would have to say about this. (Most likely, nothing at all.)

No it isn't. How countries recognise Taiwan has nothing to do with their, or their people's opinions. They want trade with China, and this is the price.

It is what it is. I don't support "strategic ambiguity" for exactly this reason, but then again, literally NO nation of consequence presently supports or accepts recognition of Taiwan and its "independence". Facts are FACTS!

Strategic ambiguity is absolutely essential to deter China attempting to invade Taiwan.

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Everyone hates Musk, but he is a very smart guy. His stance will payoff big time in the future.

-19 ( +1 / -20 )

9 times of out 10 Elon opens his mouth something idiotic comes out. This is the 1 out of 10 comment. It's not if, but when and we all hope it is done peacefully, especially so by the Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Strait.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

Elon Musk who asserted Taiwan was an integral part of China

Such dishonest reporting. What he actually said, as is included in the very same article:

"Their (Beijing's) policy has been to reunite Taiwan with China. From their standpoint, maybe it is analogous to Hawaii or something like that, like an integral part of China that is arbitrarily not part of China mostly because ... the U.S. Pacific Fleet has stopped any sort of reunification effort by force," he said.

For those who lack basic reading comprehension skills, he's saying from Beijing's perspective, Taiwan is an integral part of China. We may disagree with them, but are we to deny that's their official position?

-21 ( +1 / -22 )

Poor Taiwan got thrown underneath the bus by the US for the geopolitical reasons. In the end it is no different from Musk for the access to the Chinese market and profits. The US kicked Taiwan out of the UN and salivated at the chance to sell its good to China.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

"Their (Beijing's) policy has been to reunite Taiwan with China. From their standpoint, maybe it is analogous to Hawaii or something like that, like an integral part of China that is arbitrarily not part of China mostly because ... the U.S. Pacific Fleet has stopped any sort of reunification effort by force," he said.

That's what' happens when one talks without any historical knowledge, one sounds like an idiot.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

@Eppee Please explain. The CCP and KMT fought a civil war which the KMT lost. The KMT fled to Taiwan, suppressing the local Taiwanese. President Truman pulled support from Chiang Kai-shek's government because of corruption, wasting much American aid. The only reason the 7th Fleet intervened was because of the North Korean attack on South Korea. These are historical facts.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

@Eppee Please explain. The CCP and KMT fought a civil war which the KMT lost. The KMT fled to Taiwan, suppressing the local Taiwanese. President Truman pulled support from Chiang Kai-shek's government because of corruption, wasting much American aid. The only reason the 7th Fleet intervened was because of the North Korean attack on South Korea. These are historical facts.

Bingo. Actually "Taiwan" was laying claim to the mainland for decades until it became clear that position was unrealistic. That's why they never declared themselves the "Republic of Taiwan". Their name, to this day, is still "Republic of China".

I've thought of a better name: "Republic of Semiconductors". Because that's what it boils down to. The US and Japan stopped caring about Taiwan, until it became clear they have something we need. The global chip situation right now is precisely the reason no one country should hold a monopoly on such a commodity.

Once the semiconductor manufacturing industry is spread across several different countries, the US and Japan are going to drop Taiwan like a bad habit, mark my words. And that sucks. I like their noodles, but that's the truth.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

Uncle Sam only cares about the TSMC factories and the intellectual wealth associated with that.

Not the pineapple cake.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

That's what' happens when one talks without any historical knowledge, one sounds like an idiot.

Yes, Hawaii’s sovereignty was taken away by the U.S. and Hawaii was not an integral part of the U.S.

To be free from the U.S. the Filipinos had to revolt and fight for their independence.

To be free from the Governors of Britain had to fight for their their independence.

To be free from China, Taiwan will have to fight for their independence. Unfortunately China does not want war and so there will not be a war unless Taiwan initiates it which they won’t do.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

quercetumToday 02:58 pm JST

Poor Taiwan got thrown underneath the bus by the US for the geopolitical reasons. In the end it is no different from Musk for the access to the Chinese market and profits. The US kicked Taiwan out of the UN and salivated at the chance to sell its good to China.

It was actually a bunch of dishonorable western and other countries and not the US that denied any official representation for Taiwan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758#Votes

8 ( +10 / -2 )

I will agree on one point the Musk detractors are making, that trying to compare Taiwan to Hawaii is a bit nonsensical. Actually I think the opposite is true. Hawaii was an island nation America conquered as a territory, and was slowly assimilated until it became a state. Taiwan was part of China for a much longer period of time before Japan stole it and was later forced to relinquish its claim at the end of WW2, kicking off the brief period China and Taiwan were again unified under the KMT.

To be free from China, Taiwan will have to fight for their independence.

Actually they don't. They can just declare it. They've always been capable of declaring it.

If China invaded Taiwan, more misfortune would befall China than Taiwan. China only wins by using a nuke, which might lead to them being nuked as a result.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

deanzaZZRToday 03:13 pm JST

@Eppee Please explain. The CCP and KMT fought a civil war which the KMT lost. The KMT fled to Taiwan, suppressing the local Taiwanese. President Truman pulled support from Chiang Kai-shek's government because of corruption, wasting much American aid. The only reason the 7th Fleet intervened was because of the North Korean attack on South Korea. These are historical facts.

And then the US restored aid to Taiwan within a few years. This is historical fact. I will make sure you remember it if you forget.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

I've thought of a better name: "Republic of Semiconductors". Because that's what it boils down to. The US and Japan stopped caring about Taiwan, until it became clear they have something we need. The global chip situation right now is precisely the reason no one country should hold a monopoly on such a commodity.

I love how China avoids a military war and focuses on trade and economic wars. The world should follow the 21st century Tech War instead of the 20th century battles of tanks and ammunition.

The Chinese civil war is now taking form in the battle between semiconductor manufacturers in China and Taiwan with the same agents and same players backing the agents.

President Truman pulled support from Chiang Kai-shek's government because of corruption, wasting much American aid. 

Biden’s $52 billion subsidy for TSMC in AZ will be wasted just like how the aid for KMT and Afghanistan went down the drain.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

wolfshineToday 03:24 pm JST

@Eppee Please explain. The CCP and KMT fought a civil war which the KMT lost. The KMT fled to Taiwan, suppressing the local Taiwanese. President Truman pulled support from Chiang Kai-shek's government because of corruption, wasting much American aid. The only reason the 7th Fleet intervened was because of the North Korean attack on South Korea. These are historical facts.

Bingo. Actually "Taiwan" was laying claim to the mainland for decades until it became clear that position was unrealistic. That's why they never declared themselves the "Republic of Taiwan". Their name, to this day, is still "Republic of China".

I've thought of a better name: "Republic of Semiconductors". Because that's what it boils down to. The US and Japan stopped caring about Taiwan, until it became clear they have something we need. The global chip situation right now is precisely the reason no one country should hold a monopoly on such a commodity.

Once the semiconductor manufacturing industry is spread across several different countries, the US and Japan are going to drop Taiwan like a bad habit, mark my words. And that sucks. I like their noodles, but that's the truth.

Taiwan didn't have semiconductors for the First and Second Taiwan Straits Crises and the US involement in those, so you can stop making assumptions about what the US will do. We've never found a war we didn't like.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

quercetumToday 03:38 pm JST

That's what' happens when one talks without any historical knowledge, one sounds like an idiot.

Yes, Hawaii’s sovereignty was taken away by the U.S. and Hawaii was not an integral part of the U.S.

So neither is Taiwan an integral part of China got it.

To be free from the U.S. the Filipinos had to revolt and fight for their independence.

Nice revisionism. The Filipinos were given independence.

To be free from the Governors of Britain had to fight for their their independence.

Not even sure what country you are talking about but it was probably given independence rather than winning it on their own militarily.

To be free from China, Taiwan will have to fight for their independence.

That fight is over and the mainland failed in its mandate. Now the US will be involved directly if stupid moves are made by Peking.

Unfortunately China does not want war and so there will not be a war unless Taiwan initiates it which they won’t do.

Well I hope you are right but many of your pro-China compatriots are saying the exact opposite above.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Taiwan didn't have semiconductors for the First and Second Taiwan Straits Crises and the US involement in those, so you can stop making assumptions about what the US will do. We've never found a war we didn't like.

The second Taiwan Strait Crisis was in 1958 and since then the United States recognized the PRC and didn't renew its security agreement with the ROC

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

quercetumToday 03:55 pm JST

I love how China avoids a military war and focuses on trade and economic wars. The world should follow the 21st century Tech War instead of the 20th century battles of tanks and ammunition.

The Chinese civil war is now taking form in the battle between semiconductor manufacturers in China and Taiwan with the same agents and same players backing the agents.

That's only going to be true until it isn't.

President Truman pulled support from Chiang Kai-shek's government because of corruption, wasting much American aid. 

You like that story, as if it somehow neutralizes that the US kept the criminals on the mainland one year later and has defended Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan for 75 years. I'm so sorry your hero China ranks so high on measures of corruption and Taiwan ranks so low.

Biden’s $52 billion subsidy for TSMC in AZ will be wasted just like how the aid for KMT and Afghanistan went down the drain.

An investment in the US is going to go down the drain like the KMT, which is still there, and Afghanistan which is not, all without a shot fired. That is some noodle you got there.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

wolfshineToday 04:00 pm JST

Taiwan didn't have semiconductors for the First and Second Taiwan Straits Crises and the US involement in those, so you can stop making assumptions about what the US will do. We've never found a war we didn't like.

The second Taiwan Strait Crisis was in 1958 and since then the United States recognized the PRC and didn't renew its security agreement with the ROC

It's almost as if economics matters and Congress gave a rude gesture to Peking by passing the Taiwan Relations Act in the middle of normalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

9 ( +9 / -0 )

It's almost as if economics matters and Congress gave a rude gesture to Peking by passing the Taiwan Relations Act in the middle of normalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

Yeh, uh, also

One agreement that was unilaterally terminated by President Jimmy Carter upon the establishment of relations with the PRC was the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty...

...

The TRA does not guarantee the U.S. will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress.

Taiwan was essentially irrelevant for decades until a brilliant ex-Texas Instruments engineer built TSMC from the ground up and ate up 60% of the market share from his East Asian neighbors and the US.

Had India or the UK gotten semiconductors right, we would not even be talking about Taiwan right now. They may still get another shot though.

Musk sees all of this for what it is.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

台灣一定是中國 Even the founder of TSMC has said the TSMC investment in Arizona is destined to fail. There are not enough engineers and Americans won't follow procedure and are always second-guessing management.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Another useful idiot who loves the authoritarian and repressive governance. Suspecting that the world is becoming, once again, the place where only a handful of the rich and powerful can decide on every single thing related to our lives, I cannot help but reject this billionaire jack of all trades.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Sucking up to Red China to fall on the good side of the Great Firewall. Lame. Weak.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Musk is an idiot. He does not understand freedom but expects it for himself. Sucking up to Beijing to keep his factories operating inside China, he will say anything Xi tells him to. Disgusting individual. Lucky for him he is not Chinese or he would disappear for months, end up broke and behind bars enjoying the hospitality of a Chinese prison like other former Chinese billionaires.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

If Taiwan is not China, why did they still keep calling themselves "Republic of China"?

The ruling party is Democratic Progressive Party(DPP) that even never recognising Taiwan is part of China, the entire DPP is just ridiculous and lacking legitimacy.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

wolfshineToday 04:19 pm JST

It's almost as if economics matters and Congress gave a rude gesture to Peking by passing the Taiwan Relations Act in the middle of normalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

Yeh, uh, also

One agreement that was unilaterally terminated by President Jimmy Carter upon the establishment of relations with the PRC was the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty...

...

The TRA does not guarantee the U.S. will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress.

Taiwan was essentially irrelevant for decades until a brilliant ex-Texas Instruments engineer built TSMC from the ground up and ate up 60% of the market share from his East Asian neighbors and the US.

Yeah so irrelevant it had US troops deployed there and participating in the Taiwan Straits Crises.

Had India or the UK gotten semiconductors right, we would not even be talking about Taiwan right now. They may still get another shot though.

Yeah and if Japan hadn't had it's economic miracle we would be talking on this website I guess. Hypotheticals that broad are pointless.

Musk sees all of this for what it is.

No, he is an idiot trying to ingratiate himself with idiots.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

wolfshineToday 04:19 pm JST

One agreement that was unilaterally terminated by President Jimmy Carter upon the establishment of relations with the PRC was the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty...

Yeah, of course that was going go away with normalization with Chinese Corrupt Party. It can be brought back, though, now that it would hurt them as much as us if trade were cut off.

The TRA does not guarantee the U.S. will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress.

It also says "any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means, including by boycotts or embargoes, a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific area and of grave concern to the United States". You've heard our senile president say what will happen if the PRC does something stupid. Do they feel lucky?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

elephant200Today 05:30 pm JST

If Taiwan is not China, why did they still keep calling themselves "Republic of China"?

The ruling party is Democratic Progressive Party(DPP) that even never recognising Taiwan is part of China, the entire DPP is just ridiculous and lacking legitimacy.

It's almost as if someone has a gun to the head of Taiwan, isn't it? And the DPP has more legitimacy than the CCP will have in 1000 years.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

OTSUKARESAMADESUToday 05:43 pm JST

Yes Taiwanese independence failed previously

No, Criminal Party victory failed short of the goal previously.

Your just going to have to admit that Taiwan cannot protect itself without help

That's true, but you are going to have to admit that Taiwan will certainly have that help from the US. The entire US presence in East Asia depends on it and the US has never found a war it didn't like.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Yeah so irrelevant it had US troops deployed there and participating in the Taiwan Straits Crises.

You can keep regurgitating the same points on repeat like you don't know what I am referring to, but I will reiterate for everyone else reading because you are actually just muddying the waters at this point: the United States relinquished any responsibility to directly protect Taiwan from military adversaries after Jimmy Carter signed the Taiwan Relations Act in 1979. That's because Taiwan outlived its usefulness as a piece on the Cold War chessboard. The only reason the US is now trying to signal they will guarantee direct military intervention is because TSMC controls the global semiconductor industry, which did not occur until decades after the US all but declared they were abandoning Taiwan. As soon as Taiwan does not control the global semiconductor industry (which no one country should), Taiwan's usefulness to American and Japan will have run its course again.

Is that a sad truth? Of course it is! They did nothing wrong. But that's reality. Lucky for them, they are an island, and islands are notoriously difficult to invade. When faced with this choice, the United States decided to completely destroy two cities in what is still considered one of the most horrifying and barbaric acts of war ever committed. So Taiwan is lucky, because I really doubt the CCP is going to risk blowing up the planet just so they can get their island back.

And as I said - Musk understands all of this. The dude is literally one of the most influential people in today's age, and his hands are in everything. If he was an idiot, he wouldn't be a quarter-trillionaire engaged in several massive contracts with the United States government. Part of doing business means you have to engage and deal with some unsavory people, like the Chinese. Again, what he said was that from the Chinese perspective, Taiwan belongs to them. He didn't say, "I believe Taiwan belongs to the PRC", or "I think Taiwan is a part of the PRC". It's a relatively trivial thing to get so upset over.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

An armistice was achieved? Certainly not in writing. Chiang and the KMIT tucked tail and sailed away to an island recently colonized by the Japanese. The Mainlanders and Taiwanese often did not even share a common language.

as only an armistice was achieved

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

FredrikToday  12:30 pm JST

Capitalism at its best. It is not about democracy or communism... only money...

No it's not. Any business school student learns in the first year the Risks of business in an Authoritarian State.

Musk just thinks he's somehow above it all.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Taiwan Foreign Minister Joseph Wu, in a post on X late Wednesday, responded that he hoped Musk could ask China to "open @X to its people". China blocks X, along with other major Western social media like Facebook.

The Foreign Minister sounds a lot smarter at business than the businessman. And the businessman sounds terrible at foreign policy.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I think it's time that Taiwan disassociate themselves with the term China. All political, diplomatic, and geographical associations should be under the name Taiwan/Taiwanese. Enough of these games with two Chinas. They're an independent country. They need cut yourselves off from the term China.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I think it's time that Taiwan disassociate themselves with the term China. All political, diplomatic, and geographical associations should be under the name Taiwan/Taiwanese. Enough of these games with two Chinas. They're an independent country. They need cut yourselves off from the term China.

I agree.

"Strategic ambiguity" is not the big brain geopolitical chess play people have made it out to be. It is an inherently flawed philosophy. There's no room for ambiguity when you need to define things as paramount as your collective identity, your values, or your direction. What can your people believe in? It's like the antithesis of competent leadership. Imagine if America's founding fathers pursued a policy of strategic ambiguity, unwilling to define themselves as an independent sovereign nation in the late 18th century. When you're unwilling to define yourself as a sovereign nation state, and the name of your entity is literally false, how can you expect to be taken seriously? In this sense, strategic ambiguity has totally failed.

And although I can applaud the Ukrainians for being totally unambiguous about their national identity, one flaw both these entities share is their relatively overt sense of entitlement for foreign funding and assistance. Make no mistake - we owe them nothing. They are entitled to nothing. Not from Musk and not from the taxpayer.

Though, I would be much more willing to let Taiwan leech off of my money if they at least defined what they are.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Even the founder of TSMC has said the TSMC investment in Arizona is destined to fail. There are not enough engineers and Americans won't follow procedure and are always second-guessing management.

The trade unions are trying to block the visas for the engineers who are needed because the US could not supply the sufficient number of engineers.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

On February 4, 1899, fighting broke out between American forces and Filipino nationalists led by Emilio Aguinaldo who sought independence rather than a change in colonial rulers. Independence comes at a cost.

Taiwan will have to do the same after it declares independence but they won't because they do not want to go to war. There will be no war in the straights, only in the minds of Westerners.

Both sides are smarat enough to see the potential destruction. These people are not Russians and Ukrainians. Those who wish Taiwan will become independent will be disaapointed. The best thing is to continue to trade and tap the market in China and eventually China will have enough leverage to change or keep the status quo. That is how China works.

Vivek and the poster above both tell it like it is. The only reason is to make sure that the US is not dependent on one source of chips, TSMC, that could fall into the hands of China. It's about protecting American not about Taiwanese independence.

So posters here think Americans will send their troops to die for the Taiwanese in order to ensure they have enough semiconductor chips. How stupid does that sound? Even worse people actually think Americans will die for Taiwanese independence?!

Why not just make your own chips? Why not wait until 2025 when Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company wlll begin to manufacture chips in Arizona? Why not just buy these chips, import chips? No, we want to send our young men to die for these chips.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

wolfshineSep. 14 06:00 pm JST

Yeah so irrelevant it had US troops deployed there and participating in the Taiwan Straits Crises.

You can keep regurgitating the same points on repeat like you don't know what I am referring to, but I will reiterate for everyone else reading because you are actually just muddying the waters at this point: the United States relinquished any responsibility to directly protect Taiwan from military adversaries after Jimmy Carter signed the Taiwan Relations Act in 1979. That's because Taiwan outlived its usefulness as a piece on the Cold War chessboard. The only reason the US is now trying to signal they will guarantee direct military intervention is because TSMC controls the global semiconductor industry, which did not occur until decades after the US all but declared they were abandoning Taiwan. As soon as Taiwan does not control the global semiconductor industry (which no one country should), Taiwan's usefulness to American and Japan will have run its course again.

You can keep regurgitating on repeat that it is all about the semiconductors, but I will reiterate for everyone else reading that there is no proof of that.

Is that a sad truth? Of course it is! They did nothing wrong. But that's reality. Lucky for them, they are an island, and islands are notoriously difficult to invade. When faced with this choice, the United States decided to completely destroy two cities in what is still considered one of the most horrifying and barbaric acts of war ever committed.

Yes, also among them is 10 million dead in China in the Pacific War.

And as I said - Musk understands all of this. The dude is literally one of the most influential people in today's age, and his hands are in everything. If he was an idiot, he wouldn't be a quarter-trillionaire engaged in several massive contracts with the United States government. Part of doing business means you have to engage and deal with some unsavory people, like the Chinese. Again, what he said was that from the Chinese perspective, Taiwan belongs to them. He didn't say, "I believe Taiwan belongs to the PRC", or "I think Taiwan is a part of the PRC". It's a relatively trivial thing to get so upset over.

And also implied there was no civil war, ignored who was in charge before the civil war, and previously suggested that Taiwan surrender its sovereignty to Peking by becoming another "special administrative zone".

4 ( +5 / -1 )

wolfshineSep. 14 08:26 pm JST

I think it's time that Taiwan disassociate themselves with the term China. All political, diplomatic, and geographical associations should be under the name Taiwan/Taiwanese. Enough of these games with two Chinas. They're an independent country. They need cut yourselves off from the term China.

I agree.

Yes, it would make sense that people without brain cells can nod their head in agreement at something they don't understand.

"Strategic ambiguity" is not the big brain geopolitical chess play people have made it out to be. It is an inherently flawed philosophy. There's no room for ambiguity when you need to define things as paramount as your collective identity, your values, or your direction. What can your people believe in? It's like the antithesis of competent leadership. Imagine if America's founding fathers pursued a policy of strategic ambiguity, unwilling to define themselves as an independent sovereign nation in the late 18th century. When you're unwilling to define yourself as a sovereign nation state, and the name of your entity is literally false, how can you expect to be taken seriously? In this sense, strategic ambiguity has totally failed.

You don't even know what strategic ambiguity refers to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_of_deliberate_ambiguity#Taiwan

And although I can applaud the Ukrainians for being totally unambiguous about their national identity, one flaw both these entities share is their relatively overt sense of entitlement for foreign funding and assistance. Make no mistake - we owe them nothing. They are entitled to nothing. Not from Musk and not from the taxpayer.

They are entitled to avoid enslavement by thug regimes.

Though, I would be much more willing to let Taiwan leech off of my money if they at least defined what they are.

Don't worry, smarter people than you make government policy. You will just pay your taxes like a good little puppy.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

OTSUKARESAMADESUSep. 14 10:10 pm JST

Fact is Taiwan is independent in every way that matters.

Obviously not otherwise we wouldn't be having this article or conversation.

To be independent is to not need help

Oh, so I suppose Morocco is not independent because it needs help today? Japan was not independent when it received help on 3.11? Some moving of the goalposts you got there.

That's true, but you are going to have to admit that Taiwan will certainly have that help from the US. The entire US presence in East Asia depends on it and the US has never found a war it didn't like.

The USA definitely has found its self involved in war /wars that it didn't win and didn't like

Yes. One and a half. Says nothing about our willingness to join wars and once joined it will be off to the races.

This is futile to disagree.

You have to make a cogent point to have anyone agree with you.

Hence all the deceased US serviceman and women who served in useless foreign conflicts.

You have a point in there somewhere?

Why else would the USA be so ambiguous !

You do realize that the business interests with the mainland are not zero, right? There was a time when the mainland feared the US and strategic ambiguity made sense. Now the mainland is somewhat stronger and we do need a hard guarantee of Taiwan's defense, if nothing else to stop commentators on the internet from denying Taiwan's de facto independence.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

quercetumSep. 14 09:30 pm JST

The best thing is to continue to trade and tap the market in China and eventually China will have enough leverage to change or keep the status quo. That is how China works.

That's some magical thinking there. I guess you believe that somehow 1) China will achieve the status of a wealthy country and 2) Taiwan is just in it for the dollars. They see no existential threat to their way of life. I suggest you analyze those two theories to see if they might not be completely ridiculous.

Vivek and the poster above both tell it like it is. The only reason is to make sure that the US is not dependent on one source of chips, TSMC, that could fall into the hands of China. It's about protecting American not about Taiwanese independence.

Yes it is easy to just create theories that make it seem like your enemies are retreating. Maybe it is because you are used to China retreating.

So posters here think Americans will send their troops to die for the Taiwanese in order to ensure they have enough semiconductor chips. How stupid does that sound? Even worse people actually think Americans will die for Taiwanese independence?!

They did in Korea and Vietnam. Some time has passed since then but we also don't need to draft people to operate aircraft and ships: we have trained professionals to do those things.

Why not just make your own chips? Why not wait until 2025 when Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company wlll begin to manufacture chips in Arizona? Why not just buy these chips, import chips? No, we want to send our young men to die for these chips.

Because it is not about the chips! By jove, I think you've got it!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Please share a link with the signed agreement.

Yes a ceasefire was agreed apon and achieved

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Don't worry, smarter people than you make government policy. You will just pay your taxes like a good little puppy.

Smarter people do not make government policy. They are actually rather not smart, which is why the American populace loathes them, and then in turn the government resorts to literal political repression to suppress opposition. In other words, they plunder us and give that money to places like Taiwan. When enough Americans grow fed up, the gravy train is going to end. No matter how much emotional guilt tripping you resort to, that will not change.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

In what alternative reality did we elect a man-child with a personality disorder and abysmal impulse control the decider on national security issues?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Mainlanders and Taiwanese often did not even share a common language.

This is just ignorance of language. What the Taiwanese speak is just a version of what the people in Fujian speaks. Then they have a common standard language like Osaka dialect and Kansai dialect with standard Japanese as the common denominator.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"Strategic ambiguity" is not the big brain geopolitical chess play people have made it out to be. It is an inherently flawed philosophy. There's no room for ambiguity when you need to define things as paramount as your collective identity, your values, or your direction. What can your people believe in? It's like the antithesis of competent leadership. Imagine if America's founding fathers pursued a policy of strategic ambiguity, unwilling to define themselves as an independent sovereign nation in the late 18th century. 

You’re right on this. It’s just having your cake and eat it too. In other words, the US does not honor its word and when called out on it, it says but we didn’t say that. You know these types.

You had to place your bets. The U.S. bet on Taiwan and list and lamented for decades on how they lost China.

Had they won and Taiwan retook mainland China it would’ve be a huge windfall.

They just left the strings attached to Taiwan to placate those against Nixon and Kissinger’s diplomacy and engagement with China. They are the representatives of the defense industry who bet on Taiwan taking over mainland but list.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

After 50 years of Japanese colonial rule most Taiwanese spoke Hokkien Chinese and Japanese. The majority of Mainlanders arriving in Taiwan spoke neither of those languages. Chiang Kai-sheks's native language was the Wu dialect found in Zhejiang and Shanghai. Of course he spoke Mandarin as well as did the majority of migrants from mainland China to Taiwan. The Nationalists government was the first in China to promote a national language (國語). The folks in colonial Taiwan missed out on this movement for obvious reasons.

This is just ignorance of language. What the Taiwanese speak is just a version of what the people in Fujian speaks.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

After 50 years of Japanese colonial rule most Taiwanese spoke Hokkien Chinese and Japanese.

Yes. Hokkien is Fujian in Mandarin 福健.

The majority of Mainlanders arriving in Taiwan spoke neither of those languages. 

Yes, they are from all over China and brought their delicious cuisines. Taiwan has great food, a microcosm of China.

The Nationalists government was the first in China to promote a national language (國語).

If you have children here in the schools in Japan, they will take 国語 which to me seems like a Japanese phrase. Mainlanders use "standard dialect" 普通語 instead of 国語.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You are not teaching me anything here. I have lived and worked in both Taiwan and China. Taiwan uses the term 國語 which is the equivalent of 普通话 on the Mainland (more or less).

Now how does your "lesson" relate to Mainlanders arriving in Taiwan in the 1940s?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

quercetumToday 07:59 am JST

You’re right on this. It’s just having your cake and eat it too. In other words, the US does not honor its word and when called out on it, it says but we didn’t say that. You know these types.

China baked the cake and shoved it down everyone's throats.

You had to place your bets. The U.S. bet on Taiwan and list and lamented for decades on how they lost China.

Had they won and Taiwan retook mainland China it would’ve be a huge windfall.

Yes, and your point being?

They just left the strings attached to Taiwan to placate those against Nixon and Kissinger’s diplomacy and engagement with China.

I think at this point 100% of the US regrets Nixon and Kissinger's diplomacy with China.

They are the representatives of the defense industry who bet on Taiwan taking over mainland but list.

1950s aside (boy you sure love that era), the problem facing us today is how to keep a 1.4 billion pound gorilla in its cage.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ping An Sep. 14  11:43 am JST

Simple mathematics: 14 billion people is greater than 2,300 people.

14 billion? Even if you are correct, consider this. To every Chinese there are at least 1,000 flies. So should the Chinese eat what those flies eat? Simple math says...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Now how does your "lesson" relate to Mainlanders arriving in Taiwan in the 1940s?

I was responding to the following statement of yours.

The Mainlanders and Taiwanese often did not even share a common language.

Only the part about Japanese is correct. You subsequently changed it to spoken language in your response but your original statement was just common language.

They did share a common language, Chinese. They spoke different dialects of Chinese. The written language is Chinese. I disagree that they didn’t “even” share a common language.

They in fact shared a common language and it is the language that is the common denominator that bonds them. Taiwanese and Hokkien are both Chinese dialects just like the dialects of Zhejiang and others areas of mainland China.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The 1940’s is the era not the 1950’s.

The U.S. helped the Chinese government at the time ROC, draw the 11 dash lines in the South China Seas. The U.S. regrets this own goal now as the PRC is just adhering the to rules set by the U.S. in the rules based society.

There are in fact many own goals made by the US in the 1940’s. No wonder its academia spent subsequent decades lamenting and debating on how it lost China. Boo hoo.

In 1947, with the approval of the other three WW II victors ie USA, USSR & UK, this 11-dash sea border became an official record on international stage and not just based on old Chinese historical records anymore.

The then Chinese government (ROC) was a puppet government of the US and the South China Seas within the 11-dash line and later 9 dash line was effectively under the control of USA.

Since 1951, USA tried everything to make PRC dis-own the 11-dash part of SCS but the PRC holds tight onto the 1947 document on the sea border.

In fact, today’s Taiwan also holds tight onto this document and make the same claim. They just don’t have the power to do so as Taiwan had no voice on the world stage. They are a mere province of China and the U.S. and UK don’t recognize it as a country. Neither does Japan.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

quercetumSep. 15 11:40 pm JST

The 1940’s is the era not the 1950’s.

The U.S. helped the Chinese government at the time ROC, draw the 11 dash lines in the South China Seas. The U.S. regrets this own goal now as the PRC is just adhering the to rules set by the U.S. in the rules based society.

Gee that almost makes the brutal PRC look like a respectable country based on its actions in the SCS.

There are in fact many own goals made by the US in the 1940’s. No wonder its academia spent subsequent decades lamenting and debating on how it lost China. Boo hoo.

Truman won us Japan, Korea and secured Western Europe, so not to sad about his record.

In 1947, with the approval of the other three WW II victors ie USA, USSR & UK, this 11-dash sea border became an official record on international stage and not just based on old Chinese historical records anymore.

Please site where the 11-dash line is in the WW2 declarations.

The then Chinese government (ROC) was a puppet government of the US and the South China Seas within the 11-dash line and later 9 dash line was effectively under the control of USA.

Yeah, it is a shame the US didn't claim them for themselves, build islands, and force any China to back down.

Since 1951, USA tried everything to make PRC dis-own the 11-dash part of SCS but the PRC holds tight onto the 1947 document on the sea border.

Yes the PRC criminally holds on to many things. Even Taiwan they try to hold on to.

In fact, today’s Taiwan also holds tight onto this document and make the same claim. They just don’t have the power to do so as Taiwan had no voice on the world stage.

Only because they have a gun to their head.

They are a mere province of China and the U.S. and UK don’t recognize it as a country. Neither does Japan.

The PRC owns a word on a document in Taiwan. The Taipei government owns everything else.

Any other history items you'd like to bring up to help apologize with? Seems to be your modus operandai when ethics go out the window.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

TaiwanIsNotChinaSep. 14  11:22 am JST

What a scumbag. 23 million people have a say, too.

Muskrat needs to stick to Tesla cars and Space X. Like his mentor/messiah TrashTraitor Donald, he has NO knowledge of Taiwan or any nation at all. And he just wants to open business with China. He needs to quit sucking up to the CCP and just ShutItUp about world affairs.

> buuaSep. 14  11:37 am JST

Sickening comments by Musk. He's a megalomaniac like certain authoritarian rulers.

That's because he licks their shoes, Xi and Trumpster - the latter by restoring that loudmouth rabble-rousing heathen's X account.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Musk is another example of capitalistic alienation from things capitalists own and do not understand.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Only insecure people are triggered,by an individual citizen comment,think what would happen if they read mine

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If Mr. Musk had his gigafactory in Taiwan instead of the PRC, it would make sense for him to defend Taiwanese sovereignty. If he came out in favor of a free Taiwan, or a free China, for that matter, he would have his investments in China confiscated.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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