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Fires burn in Ferguson; gunshots heard in streets

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By SADIE GURMAN

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The protests are peaceful enough. Seems it's staying that way.

Then again, the protest in Ferguson started out peaceful enough too, when everybody was just listening on the TVs, radios, and mobile devices as the grand jury result was being broadcasted and then pondered about. It wasn't till some time later when things broke down.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I know at times like this it is PC to side with the poor young teenager who was shot while allegedly surrendering - but the truth is he had just previously robbed a store, brushing aside with one mammoth hand (watch the video!) the store owner who tried to stop him - and was a very threatening type of individual. For some reason the media keep showing this picture of him as a fresh faced kid aged about thirteen. But he was not. He was a giant of a man who was a criminal. He did certainly not look like or behave like a young teenager who would say " what's the problem officer? May I help?".

7 ( +14 / -7 )

@SimondB,

He was a giant of a man

How utterly Lilliputian.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

The ONLY businesses that survived th 1992 riots were the ones with the OWNERS, ON the ROOF, with GUNS..everything ELSE burned.. Lesson LEARNED.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

The ONLY businesses that survived th 1992 riots were the ones with the OWNERS, ON the ROOF, with GUNS..everything ELSE burned.. Lesson LEARNED.

Yup, I remember, all so, so well.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Violence seems to be the only outlet for these savages. Good thing we have Concealed Carry Permits here in Texas.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

As far as this community moving forward, an interesting fact to emerge now that grand jury notes are being released is that while he was on paid administrative leave, Darren Wilson married a fellow officer on the Ferguson Police Force, leading her to stop reporting for duty. With this type of inbred attrition further stressing the remaining officers, I don't see how it can muster the absolute professionalism needed to calmly handle a second wave of riots within a few short months. What agency is going to relieve the Ferguson Police Department of their duties, and for how long?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/11/us/ferguson-grand-jury-docs/index.html

You can see some of the testimony there.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

To the surprise of the protestors in NYC and Chicago, the NYPD and Chicago police made way for them on the city streets, blocking vehicular traffic to let them pass through.

What agency is going to relieve the Ferguson Police Department of their duties, and for how long?

The National Guard has already been there.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Like it or not, and as imperfect as it is, the USA is supposed to be a nation of laws. Just as the lynchings of times past by Southern Democrats in white hoodies, the bloodthirst on display currently demonstrate the awful pack mentality that plagues humanity.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I heard they were just undocumented shoppers.........................................

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

"He did certainly not look like or behave like a young teenager who would say " what's the problem officer? May I help?".

Most American youth never ask a policeman, "sir, may I help you?" Its more like they are doing some shenanigens, trying to say away from the cops. Seems you got it backwards, back in the day, kids were always doing mischief things, and Im sure its the same today, though much more controlled. I guess most of us are happy we are alive and were not summary executed for breaking a window etc..

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The rioters show the same respect for law that Brown did. They expect to steal, attack police and if the police fire in self-defense they cry discrimination.

I oppose the rampant gun culture in America, but I too have to admit, armed shop-owners on roof tops seem to be the only way to contain these savages.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Shameful! No self resect, no pride, no self control.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@ Mark

That we can agree on. Cleveland cops are a disgrace....

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Absolutely disrespectful to the Brown family who clearly asked for peace and calm.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Mark

Whence this sudden concern for the Brown family?

You seemed perfectly happy when their son was being gunned down....

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I guarantee that most of the looters, gun shooters, arsonists, car window, shop window smashers are from outside Ferguson. If my town had a similar event, why would I want to destroy all of the businesses that I use on a daily basis?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You definitely suck if you were a poor black in the US!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So you'd better arm yourselves because the rioters are unhappy with a policeman who shot a young guy without a weapon......again? The cycle is so regular and guaranteed, it beggars belief. Just what the US needs, more guns.....not.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is why we need our guns in the US to protect us from this type of poor innocent (bad ass) kid that thinks he can do no wrong because of his color. My heart goes out to the officer and his family (and the US) for what they are going thru getting rid of trash like this kid was, his parents should take responsibility for raising a kid like this.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

The ONLY businesses that survived th 1992 riots were the ones with the OWNERS, ON the ROOF, with GUNS..everything ELSE burned.. Lesson LEARNED.

I was there. In the riots the police completely disappeared, and it was every man for himself. It is spooky to be in a large city in America, and to have no law. 911 didn't work, all you got was a busy signal. People were looting, stabbing, shooting, and burning, and there was no fire department, and there were no police. 1100 buildings in my city were burned down.

It wasn't long after this that I started working in law enforcement myself. I had nothing against regular citizens owning and carrying guns, I knew from experience that the police could not always be relied on to come when they were needed. People need a way to defend themselves, their homes, families, and businesses.

There is no excuse whatsoever for the looting and burning in Ferguson. What did the building and shop owners do to deserve having their property destroyed? What about the people who work in these places? Where will they work tomorrow? How will they support themselves and their families during the holidays.

Most of these businesses will not be rebuilt, their will be fewer jobs, and more poverty. The people of Ferguson may not be fond of their police force, but they have no idea how bad things would be there without it. Perhaps they know a little more now, but I wouldn't bet on it.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Just heard Rev. Al Sharpton say on PMSNBC that he wants to see a change our justice system. I wonder what he has in mind. Perhaps a different set of rules for black folks?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I feel really sorry for the Brown family. Brown Sr. Asked for calm REGARDLESS what the verdict is and Brown's uncle was on FOX asking for the same thing, but many of these people and some of them are from out of town taking advantage of this tragic event and just like in the L.A. riots these opportunists will jump on any advantage to get what they want, it's all about them, selfish**! But if the police physically do something to them, then they are the bad guys and some cops will actually pull back in a subtle way for fear of being labeled a racist. The same thing happened in L.A. the crowds were absolutely mind-boggling crazy. Many of these thugs were attacking Korean store owners and trying to throw them out and burn their shops down, but they were ready for them, they were armed to the teeth and shot at anyone that even thought about ransacking their shop and businesses and they had every right to protect their property and those thugs got the message very quickly. To be honest, Ferguson is NOT as bad as Los Angeles was and it was the absolute one of the worst things that happened in my life.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

An AP photographer saw firefighters arrive at one scene only to be turned back by gunfire. Smashed window glass littered the sidewalks around many other businesses, from locally owned shops to a McDonalds along the main drag. The Ferguson Market — where surveillance video had recorded Brown stealing cigars minutes before he was killed — was ransacked.

Hm - looks like " protests " in Kiev (Ukraine)

So it's always good when good people rising against corrupted government

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The verdict was correct and widely anticipated. Being the U.S., the criminal behavior which followed it, highly predictable. The playing of the race card too. A criminal is a criminal, whatever the color. Whether it was Brown, himself a criminal, or the many looters who used this as another excuse to steal. Yet another reason not to go back to the U.S. to live.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What a smart thing to do, burning down your stores and neighborhood.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@CrazyJoe

Yep. The people of Ferguson were expected to come out and act like animals. They did not disappoint the media.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Love the 'randomly' selected grand jury of 9 white people and 3 black people. If only it had been 9 black people on the jury......but that would have been unfair! The fact is it's still a white man's world in the US even thought they preach otherwise. Makes me wonder if a black police officer has ever actually shot a white person in the US (let alone an unarmed one).

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Makes me wonder if a black police officer has ever actually shot a white person in the US (let alone an unarmed one).

Dillon Taylor

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Rioting and looting is not the answer by any means...but you know what?? people are tired and frustrated! and they really don't have an outlet to express the anger and rage which has to be constantly suppressed. I really feel bad for everyone involved....everyone is hurting on both sides of the issue, and there are no winners. Just alot of pain and resentment.

I see the word "savages" being thrown around in the comments. very interesting. I get the implication, but then again historically in America, who are the real savages??? What's more savage than the genocide of nearly the entire Native American population?? (The american Indian makes up a mere 1.5% of the entire U.S. population) Or bringing a race of people from another country to serve as beasts of burden?? The Constitution says Blacks were 3/5 human (just 10% more than half), yet after they worked the fields all day, they served as sex-toys and bed-warmers for their captors....Isn't that bestiality (also known as zoophilia)?? ****Only a real savage or a beast would want sex with something only 60% human.

America was born out of violence and savagery. If Blacks are "savages" they learned it through the consciousness of the country where they were born and raised. I guess if your evil is government sanctioned, and you do it wearing a suit, then it's ok?? huh?****

A special note to LAcajun, SimonB, MarkG, Hampy, Ulysses, Texas A&M Aggie, and anyone else who thinks Mike Brown was a thief who bullied the store owner and walked away with a box of cigars... please check this link -> http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/#

The store owner is responding through an attorney about the lie the media has been telling. He says he never said that was Mike Brown on the video. The media got that video and repeated that lie over and over and over.

Most people just don't research, they believe whatever mainstream news tells them. But then again, when someone is kinda prejudiced already, it doesn't take much to get them to believe a lie.

Also, the witnesses on the scene say Mike Brown never tried to grab the officers' gun. Another lie. They say officer Wilson grabbed Mike through the window of the police car and Mike struggled to get away. When Mike broke free, he turned and ran, was then shot twice by officer Wilson, when Mike faced him surrendering with his hands up, he was then shot 4 more times and left dead in the street for 4 hrs. Believe what you want, but this is the testimony of the witnesses who were there.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

serendip:

" Makes me wonder if a black police officer has ever actually shot a white person in the US (let alone an unarmed one). "

As it happens, just recently. Google for Dillon Taylor in Utah. But don´t expect Jesse Jackson or the Potus to pay any attention to that. Or the mass media, for that matter.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I don't believe Bron Cruz, who shot Dillon Taylor, was black, rather Hispanic. Any examples of an African-American officer shooting a white person?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The store owner is responding through an attorney about the lie the media has been telling. He says he never said that was Mike Brown on the video. The media got that video and repeated that lie over and over and over.

Most people just don't research, they believe whatever mainstream news tells them. But then again, when someone is kinda prejudiced already, it doesn't take much to get them to believe a lie.

You can't say unequivocally that the video is valid. Who are you or who are to say anything?

The Grand Jury heard over 60 witnesses and over 20 testimonies WERE taken into consideration, when you rant like that it seems like you are trying to imply that these people just have NO clue to what their job is or what they are doing. WE don't have to research anything because WE are NOT the Grand Jury, I am sure they know already what you know obviously and maybe they had good reason to believe it or not, I am not them, I don't have to do their job for them.

Dude, you're starting to sound like Yabits, the GJ made their decision, everyone needs to go home, leave Wilson alone, let the man get on with his life and the thugs, all of them that were involved in the chaos should be arrested and given the heaviest fines and keep their sorry ***** in jail for a year or two to have them reflect that you don't act like a kid because you can't get what you want.

The high and out of control Black on Black crime is the main contributing factor to most of the homicides, but when you point that out, you are considered a racist person and the Blacks need to know that they are their worst enemy. You have more Black men in jail, more fatherless Blacks than any other racial group. It has absolutely nothing to do with Whites. As long as Blacks try to blame Whites for every ill and woes and never take responsibility and accountability for their own actions, Blacks are doomed in this country.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The term "savage" being thrown so loosely at the black community in Ferguson by the privileged white populace on this forum doesn't surprise me at all. JT, don't bother with any more stories related to Ferguson and when the next cop-kills-an-unarmed-black-kid episode occurs. It'll be the same comments again. Black people's livelihood doesn't mean anything to most people on here, which in turn could said about the American judiciary system as well. That being said, America is very divided at its core, always has been and probably will remain that way.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

lucabrasiNOV. 25, 2014 - 09:04PM JST @Mark

Whence this sudden concern for the Brown family?

You seemed perfectly happy when their son was being gunned down....

When, where and how Lucabrasi? I defended Wilson to the degree he should have had from most. The media convicted Wilson and the drones followed suit. Just wrong! What many believed to be facts were lies, fabrications and false. I knew some degree of "witness facts" were inaccurate at best. It's human nature and common knowledge witnesses are occasionally inaccurate. The mass news media fed those "facts" to the Global public. Sad state when news media is controlling the people.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

People are commenting on the importance of the right to bear arms in cases of riot, but they should realize that during the 92 riots, LAPD confiscated many of the guns of the Korean business owners who were protecting their stores after TV news started reporting news of gun battles in Koreatown. The LAPD, the cowards they were, hightailed it to the westside to protect the White neighborhoods.

If not for the residents of Koreatown, who came to aid their neighborhood businesses and Radio Korea, which coordinated the defensive positions, the whole of KTown would have burn down to the ground.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Horrific scenes coming through on the BBC, the entire city of Ferguson is under siege and ablaze. Let's just hope that hundreds of innocent people - of all colours - aren't killed overnight. But the reports coming in are that riots are now sweeping across the nation. Will the entire US soon be under control of the National Guard? Let's hope cool heads prevail...

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

This has spread to several major US cities, and honestly I cannot blame these people. The oppression of African-Americans by the US police is well documented and ongoing. The ghettos still exist in most major American cities, and they're populated almost exclusively by minorities, predominantly African-Americans.

Many of the posts here just confirm the racism. If this was a bunch of white extremists there would be plenty of people pointing out that the right to bear arms exists for PRECISELY this reason, to violently oppose a tyrannical government... but I haven't seen that logic once, even though that is precisely what is happening here.

These US citizens have been oppressed and are exercising their constitutional right to take a few shots at the government. Now personally I think that's a darned stupid thing to have written into your constitution, but I also think that a government that actively persecutes 12% of its population, often lethally, needs some sort of a wake-up call.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Majority of those people probably wan't in there asking for justice. They are probably wanting to have a riot so that they can rob the stores and then burn it down to destroy any evidence. Today, many BB guns look very much like a real gun. It would be very hard to distinguish given a person has to make judgement in a split second. Then, again, you can always fire a warning shot into the air rather then to the person. Now, if they make a real gun that looks like a toy gun, that would be scary which is very much possible especially many guns are made out of composite materials nowadays.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Majority of those people probably wan't in there asking for justice.

===================================================== The St Louis County prosecutor wasnt about justice or evidence either or he would have recommended specific charges to the jury, so we are even on that score. His decision not to recommend a specific charge to the grand jury essentially guaranteed the police would be protected and there would be no indictment.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This lawless destructive behavior does nothing to help race relations. This does nothing for justice. This helps the Brown family in no way.

Honestly even if it were murder charges made the looting and vandalism would have taken place also. Not to this degree though. It's the type of people there wanting and waiting for the excuse to steal and destroy!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Fires burn in Ferguson; gunshots heard in streets

Since the Governor is too scared to send in the National Guard to quell the rioters and looters. I feel sorry for the people and business owners that have been betrayed by the Governor and his fears.

Police are sitting back keeping the looters in areas.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/25/ferguson-riots-police-response/70102410/

All the hype about the National Guard being called up was just hype because they did nothing to stop the looters.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-11-25/ferguson-looting-opens-wounds-anew-as-body-shop-left-in-tatters

The Governor of Missouri had bowed pressure from the Obama administration before not to send in troops from the get go!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/missouri-lt-gov-nixon-bowed-to-pressure-from-obama-and-holder-to-not-send-national-guard/

http://www.businessinsider.com/peter-kinder-slams-jay-nixon-for-not-sending-more-national-guard-to-ferguson-2014-11

http://wunc.org/post/missouri-governor-adds-significantly-national-guard-ferguson

Come next election Missouri will be a red state. Folks want a Governor that will protect them and their businesses from criminals and not one who is too scared to act!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Honestly even if it were murder charges made the looting and vandalism would have taken place also. Not to this degree though. It's the type of people there wanting and waiting for the excuse to steal and destroy!

========================================================================================== A lesser violation may have had a chance but the rioting would have been much worse had Wilson been charged and acquitted on involuntary manslaughter for which there was not nearly sufficient evidence.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This has spread to several major US cities, and honestly I cannot blame these people. The oppression of African-Americans by the US police is well documented and ongoing. The ghettos still exist in most major American cities, and they're populated almost exclusively by minorities, predominantly African-Americans.

So basically, you're giving these people a pass because they are frustrated and the system didn't go THEIR way? It's understandable and justifiable to vent their outrage on people and property, because they are angry??? This is exactly why liberals get under my skin, they think the rule of law can be defied at anytime or anything or any reason. But whites are supposed to have a positive attitude towards Blacks No matter what, even if they break the law?!! Selfish and ignorant doesn't even begin to describe what these people are!

Many of the posts here just confirm the racism. If this was a bunch of white extremists there would be plenty of people pointing out that the right to bear arms exists for PRECISELY this reason, to violently oppose a tyrannical government... but I haven't seen that logic once, even though that is precisely what is happening here.

How do you know all of us that post here are White? Making that kind of accusation in itself is racist. Seems to me, the Blacks that are looting and burning down property are the racists, because they want Wilson by all accounts chained and shackled and if we don't get our way, we'll burn the town down, nice. So all the Non-Whites (and Blacks) that had their properties destroyed as well as the community, what did they get out of rioting? Nothing! Some of the businesses will never come back. They are hurting themselves and they can't blame the White man for this one.

These US citizens have been oppressed and are exercising their constitutional right to take a few shots at the government.

Not at all! They have been put on lock down to prevent rioting and looting and they should have done much more to make sure this kind of nonsense doesn't happen again. No one is against peaceful protesting, this wasn't peaceful.

Now personally I think that's a darned stupid thing to have written into your constitution, but I also think that a government that actively persecutes 12% of its population, often lethally, needs some sort of a wake-up call.

When a big portion of that 12% engage in crimes, what are you supposed to do, have a buddy, buddy talk? Come on....

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Bass,

So basically, you're giving these people a pass because they are frustrated and the system didn't go THEIR way?

Time and again it is proven that the system explicitly doesn't go 'THEIR' way.

What are YOU going to do to address that, Bass?

On average, blacks receive almost 10% longer sentences than comparable whites arrested for the same crimes. At least half this gap can be explained by initial charging choices, particularly the filing of charges carrying mandatory minimum sentences. Prosecutors are, ceteris paribus, almost twice as likely to file such charges against blacks.

Rehavi, M. Marit and Starr, Sonja B., Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences (May 7, 2012). U of Michigan Law & Econ, Empirical Legal Studies Center Paper No. 12-002. Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=1985377 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.1985377

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Despite the many scenes of chaos, not all of Ferguson burned. Actually, it was mainly along 2 large streets.

Also, not many cameras captured other areas of goodwill where Ferguson protestors actually protected businesses of strangers, standing between them and the looters, because that's not what the protests are about.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So black people (and not only black) fighting against corrupted authorities...

What can be better ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

bass4funkNov. 26, 2014 - 08:26AM JST

So basically, you're giving these people a pass because they are frustrated and the system didn't go THEIR way? It's understandable and justifiable to vent their outrage on people and property, because they are angry??? This is exactly why liberals get under my skin, they think the rule of law can be defied at anytime or anything or any reason. But whites are supposed to have a positive attitude towards Blacks No matter what, even if they break the law?!! Selfish and ignorant doesn't even begin to describe what these people are!

But when conservatives defend easy access to guns, even when those guns are used to commit crimes, you're all about the right to bear arms in order to rebel against a tyrannical government.

You do realise that to do that you'd have to break a number of laws, right? ... but apparently you haven't thought that far along.

Many of the posts here just confirm the racism. If this was a bunch of white extremists there would be plenty of people pointing out that the right to bear arms exists for PRECISELY this reason, to violently oppose a tyrannical government... but I haven't seen that logic once, even though that is precisely what is happening here.

How do you know all of us that post here are White? Making that kind of accusation in itself is racist.

I didn't say that. I said "many" not "all". But by trying to turn a clear "many" into "all" you're just showing who's the real racist here.

These US citizens have been oppressed and are exercising their constitutional right to take a few shots at the government.

Not at all! They have been put on lock down to prevent rioting and looting and they should have done much more to make sure this kind of nonsense doesn't happen again. No one is against peaceful protesting, this wasn't peaceful.

The second amendment is clearly NOT about peaceful protesting. If you want to change the US constitution then go ahead, but kiss your guns goodbye. Otherwise realise that their rioting is an act of rebellion against what they perceive as an oppressive state, and that it is constitutionally protected.

Now personally I think that's a darned stupid thing to have written into your constitution, but I also think that a government that actively persecutes 12% of its population, often lethally, needs some sort of a wake-up call.

When a big portion of that 12% engage in crimes, what are you supposed to do, have a buddy, buddy talk? Come on....

Unless you're willing to admit that a big portion of White people in the US are also criminals? In which case you should be busting heads in White neighbourhoods too... but that isn't happening is it?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Time and again it is proven that the system explicitly doesn't go 'THEIR' way.

What are YOU going to do to address that, Bass?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/time-young-black-men-murder-14-times-more-than-young-white-men/

I just did.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/blacks-50-times-more-likely-to-commit-crime-against-whites-than-whites-do-to-blacks/question-2667057/?link=ibaf&q=Blacks+commit+more+offenses

And here too. A broader look.

@frungy

But when conservatives defend easy access to guns, even when those guns are used to commit crimes, you're all about the right to bear arms in order to rebel against a tyrannical government.

Dude, you're stretching it, stay on the reservation please.

You do realise that to do that you'd have to break a number of laws, right? ... but apparently you haven't thought that far along.

Well, I usually leave the emotional argument to liberals.

I didn't say that. I said "many" not "all". But by trying to turn a clear "many" into "all" you're just showing who's the real racist here.

You don't know me, never seen, nor met me, but you can insinuate that I am the racist (supposedly) ?

Otherwise realise that their rioting is an act of rebellion against what they perceive as an oppressive state, and that it is constitutionally protected.

So you are saying that rioting, looting and the destruction of private and public property is acceptable? And the constitution protects that?? So basically, the innocent store owners and people just have to understand and accept and watch their properties being trashed for some they are completely wiped out, but it's totally protected to act like thug. Thanks for the liberal clarification and complete bogus inaccurate assessment.

This is the most clearly racist sentence I've read in a long time.

You mean, hearing the truth makes a person a racist? Should I lie to make all the libs feel better, I can do that, but I was NEVER raised like that.

Unless you're willing to admit that a big portion of White people in the US are also criminals? In which case you should be busting heads in White neighbourhoods too... but that isn't happening is it?

Name me a town where Whites are killing each other on an alarming daily basis. Blacks in cities like Chicago, Philly, Oakland and on and on where most Blacks over 75% come from single family households and many engage in small petty crimes at first and then graduate and gravitate to bigger crimes. Blacks are killed more by Blacks than any other racial group. They are their own worst enemy. Had Wilson been a Black officer, NONE of this would be happening right now. This case was NEVER about cop vs and kills young kid. This was about a White cop killing a Black kid, this was all about race and nothing more.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

bass4funkNov. 27, 2014 - 02:50AM JST Name me a town where Whites are killing each other on an alarming daily basis. Blacks in cities like Chicago, Philly, Oakland and on and on where most Blacks over 75% come from single family households and many engage in small petty crimes at first and then graduate and gravitate to bigger crimes. Blacks are killed more by Blacks than any other racial group. They are their own worst enemy. Had Wilson been a Black officer, NONE of this would be happening right now. This case was NEVER about cop vs and kills young kid. This was about a White cop killing a Black kid, this was all about race and nothing more.

... wait, I've heard this record before. Oh, yes, it was during Apartheid.

From this little thing called "science" (and the US constitution) and know that all men are created pretty much equal. An entire population group is not automatically criminal, lazy, evil, etc. Instead every population group should be able to be described using a bell curve, with some good, some bad, some ugly.

When you see a population group differing from this bell curve the reasons are societal. If there is indeed the level of violence and criminality that you describe in the African American communities in the USA then it is the result of discrimination and all the evidence that any sane and reasonable person needs to say, "These people have a legitimate complaint and should be listened to.".

But they weren't listened to. They haven't been listened to for 200 years. Now they're angry and they're getting violent. Personally, if I had been discriminated against for 200 years and had to listen to people like you telling me I was evil and violent because I had the bad fortune to be born into a group that was actively discriminated against... I'd be angry as hell.

The only real shame here is that they don't have any quality leaders like Nelson Mandela, leaders who could focus the violence and ensure that the government and businesses that profit from the discrimination are the ones that get hurt.

But don't come here with your victim blaming and try to turn these people into the bad guys. White Americans have profited from these people's labour and suffering for generations and continue to profit from it. The USA needs to take a long hard look at itself and think very deeply about how it created the conditions necessary for this.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If there is indeed the level of violence and criminality that you describe in the African American communities in the USA then it is the result of discrimination and all the evidence that any sane and reasonable person needs to say, "These people have a legitimate complaint and should be listened to.".

I agree, no argument here, so why burn, loot, rob, riot, vandalizing, attack people randomly that have nothing to do with what happened in Ferguson. They surely could have done peaceful quiet protests, MLK did it, what makes these people different? If they think their actions will grab the publics attention, it sure did, but NOT in the way, they'd hope.

But they weren't listened to. They haven't been listened to for 200 years.

If that were true, Obama would have NEVER, NEVER, been elected president.

Now they're angry and they're getting violent. Personally, if I had been discriminated against for 200 years and had to listen to people like you telling me I was evil and violent because I had the bad fortune to be born into a group that was actively discriminated against... I'd be angry as hell.

Being angry and acting violent and harming property and innocent people are completely and entirely different scenarios. I was just watching the news, a reporter was telling his story that some of these thugs robbed him, stole all of his equipment and one of his accomplices held a gun to his colleagues head and and threatened to rob their car and shoot them, after they got what they wanted, they torched the reporters car. Now how does that equate to ANY level of justice, personal vindictive satisfaction perhaps? Will these thugs win sympathy from the public, from Whites? Never!

The only real shame here is that they don't have any quality leaders like Nelson Mandela, leaders who could focus the violence and ensure that the government and businesses that profit from the discrimination are the ones that get hurt.

Agreed! Race hustlers and race agitators like Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and Eric Holder are only putting more fuel on the fire, these people are dividers and make a living off of racism, it's a lucrative business for these guys.

But don't come here with your victim blaming and try to turn these people into the bad guys.

Everyone that was involved in the mayhem and caused destruction is a criminal, pure and simple and I hope these thugs are caught and put behind bars for a very long time.

White Americans have profited from these people's labour and suffering for generations and continue to profit from it.

And many low income Blacks profited by sucking and draining the government of entitlements and equally profit from it.

The USA needs to take a long hard look at itself and think very deeply about how it created the conditions necessary for this.

And Blacks need to take responsibility for their own actions just like everyone else. Holding a chip on your shoulder will never help your cause, in fact, doing what these people are doing will only make it worst.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Bass4Funk,

time-young-black-men-murder-14-times-more-than-young-white-men/

Once again, charlatans masquerading as journalists:

Source: Frontpagemag.com (slogan: Inside every liberal is a totalitarian screaming to get out)

In the original Time viewpoint piece, a claim that "the numbers don't lie" precedes a link to a blog which in turn quotes (with no hint of irony) a "factoid" from Wikipedia, which claims to paraphrase govt. statistics, and is regurgitated across the far right blogosphere.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/22/viewpoint-dont-ignore-race-in-christopher-lanes-murder/

=============================================================

Oxford English Dictionary definition of factoid:

a) a piece of unreliable information that is repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact.

b) N. Amer. a brief or trivial piece of information.

=============================================================

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@sense

Let's simplify this, Blacks are killed overwhelmingly by which one, White or Blacks?

The answer is: other Blacks.

Thank you.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

bass4funkNov. 27, 2014 - 04:42PM JST Let's simplify this, Blacks are killed overwhelmingly by which one, White or Blacks? The answer is: other Blacks.

Let's simplify this.

When Whites kill Blacks they're not even bought to trial (see case in point), or they hire a lawyer who gets them off on a technicality.

Because of discrimination in the USA Blacks can't afford a lawyer, therefore they're found guilty.

In short your argument is a perfect example of circular logic.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When Whites kill Blacks they're not even bought to trial (see case in point), or they hire a lawyer who gets them off on a technicality.

You're generalizing.

Because of discrimination in the USA Blacks can't afford a lawyer, therefore they're found guilty.

That was a flat out racist statement, so now you think all Blacks are poor and can't afford a lawyer??? Unbelievable!

In short your argument is a perfect example of circular logic.

How so? Now liberals are backtracking what they call as logic?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

bass4funkNov. 28, 2014 - 02:47AM JST

When Whites kill Blacks they're not even bought to trial (see case in point), or they hire a lawyer who gets them off on a technicality.

You're generalizing.

Nope, I ain't. There have been a number of studies done pointing out that higher conviction rates of African-Americans compared to Whites who committed similar crimes. There is a systematic and well-documented bias in the legal system, and a lot of it comes down to money.

Because of discrimination in the USA Blacks can't afford a lawyer, therefore they're found guilty.

That was a flat out racist statement, so now you think all Blacks are poor and can't afford a lawyer??? Unbelievable!

Again, you're mistaken. African-Americans generally have a much lower income level, and far more frequently make use of free over-worked public defenders. Again this is a matter of public record and academic study. You're simply not choosing to see the economic discrimination that underlies this entire issue.

In short your argument is a perfect example of circular logic.

How so? Now liberals are backtracking what they call as logic?

... your statement makes no sense.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nope, I ain't. There have been a number of studies done pointing out that higher conviction rates of African-Americans compared to Whites who committed similar crimes. There is a systematic and well-documented bias in the legal system, and a lot of it comes down to money.

Of course you are. High incarceration rate, over 70% of Black households don't have a father, high school drop out rate. Are you trying to tell me that, in public schools, Blacks just have a difficult time getting and staying in school because of some social economic problem? It's impossible for them to get to school. I know many, many affluent Blacks and middle class Blacks that don't have ANY problems with the law, nor do they have a grudge on their shoulder, I know for a fact that some of these people are making excuses to blame others.

Again, you're mistaken. African-Americans generally have a much lower income level, and far more frequently make use of free over-worked public defenders. Again this is a matter of public record and academic study. You're simply not choosing to see the economic discrimination that underlies this entire issue.

Then what they need to do is stay in school, stay off the streets and stop making excuses. You don't need money to go to a public school. Poor or not, there are ways you can get your education, there are many prominent Blacks that have done this, but so many Blacks keep voting for the party of Dependence and thus are dooming themselves to a downward spiral of constant perpetual poverty and despair and will NEVER make it up the economic ladder, relying on the government to give you more entitlements.

... your statement makes no sense

Only because it's the truth

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

One of the biggest issues facing black people in the US is the attitude of so many white people that black people don't face any issues in the US. These white people think that it's just as easy for the black people as it is for affluent white people.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I don't hear Asians and other minorities complain. What makes Blacks different?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I don't hear Asians and other minorities complain. What makes Blacks different?

Asians usually face different types of discrimination. And if you aren't hearing their and other minorities complaints it's because you aren't listening.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Bass4funk. Pause for a moment and actually listen to yourself. You admit that the vast majority of African Americans are worse off than White Americans in terms of education, money, social status, criminal status, family status, and virtually every indicator.

Science has proven time and again that, given equal opportunities, every population group should perform on a bell curve. But the the African American community is almost entirely clustered at the bottom of the U.S. bell curve. We don't see the same results internationally.

Therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that there is active discrimination in the USA against African Americans. Your own observations confirm this, but you're so intent on denying discrimination that you can't see the truth.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@stranger

Asians usually face different types of discrimination. And if you aren't hearing their and other minorities complaints it's because you aren't listening.

I'm from L.A., practically Asian Capitol of the US. I hear exactly nothing most work hard, study hard, don't get involved with gangs or shoot people, mind their own business, don't rob people or steal, most come from solid family homes, most have both parents, high achievers, most don't drop out of school, most have a higher income. Yeah, I do listen and see. Stranger, keep making excuses and keep denying that there isn't a problem in the Black community.

@frungy

Pause for a moment and actually listen to yourself. You admit that the vast majority of African Americans are worse off than White Americans in terms of education, money, social status, criminal status, family status, and virtually every indicator.

Exactly.

Science has proven time and again that, given equal opportunities, every population group should perform on a bell curve. But the the African American community is almost entirely clustered at the bottom of the U.S. bell curve. We don't see the same results internationally.

If you want to make the argument the White man is keeping the Black man down, save it, if you work hard, give it your best, anyone can overcome. Obama, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Ben Carson, Kevin Jackson, Nigel Innis, Dwayne Johnson, Mia Love and the list goes on and on.

Therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that there is active discrimination in the USA against African Americans. Your own observations confirm this, but you're so intent on denying discrimination that you can't see the truth.

My observation and experience living in L.A. Is that Blacks use the victimization card way too much. 50 years ago, yes, totally agreed, but now? It's overplayed and I thought that once Obama was elected president, we could put all this aside, instead race relations have gotten worse, this president was supposed to be a uniter, but instead he, Holder, Sharpton and his liberal racist minions totally reversed race relations in this country.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Science has proven time and again that, given equal opportunities, every population group should perform on a bell curve. But the the African American community is almost entirely clustered at the bottom of the U.S. bell curve. We don't see the same results internationally.

There is no better example to be found than the black communities around Detriot and the ones across in Windsor, Ontario. Both have common roots in U.S. slavery. But blacks in Windsor are far better off as a group: far more integrated into Canadian society.

If you want to make the argument the White man is keeping the Black man down

You have largely made it yourself. White society in the U.S. is far more racially biased than whites in Canada. Canada, for example, doesn't make it alright for police to kill unarmed teenagers who are in the act of fleeing. They are looking at case after case in the U.S., and noting things like: "Statistically, as a recent Kirwan Institute study suggests, [an American Black male] is more likely to be singled out as aggressive, mean and/or intellectually deficient for similar behaviour than a white kid. Should he enter into the justice system, he is more likely to be charged with a greater crime than someone with lighter skin; even if he isn’t, the black kid is more likely to be treated more harshly by judges and jurors." (Source: Macleans; 11/26/2014)

The Kirwan study also found that, even from a very young age, a black kid who commits the same infraction as a white kid in a classroom is far more likely to be suspended. Macleans also commented on Wilson's testimony, noting how filled it was superhuman references to Brown's "demonic" ability to turn him into a weak, helpless 5-year-old, while Brown was "Hulk Hogan" who could strike a fatal blow with a single punch. (Even though several strikes by Brown barely left a mark on Wilson.)

This simply does not happen in Canada, and the Canadians are very mindful to make sure it doesn't.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

bass4funkNov. 28, 2014 - 07:03PM JST

Science has proven time and again that, given equal opportunities, every population group should perform on a bell curve. But the the African American community is almost entirely clustered at the bottom of the U.S. bell curve. We don't see the same results internationally.

If you want to make the argument the White man is keeping the Black man down, save it, if you work hard, give it your best, anyone can overcome. Obama, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Ben Carson, Kevin Jackson, Nigel Innis, Dwayne Johnson, Mia Love and the list goes on and on.

... you are mistaken. You're citing the exceptions as the rule.

I'm sorry, but the time for politeness has passed. You are very clearly and very obviously a racist and in denial about racism in the USA, and someone needs to tell you that for your own good. You probably won't change, but at least someone has had told you now, so maybe if you hear it another thousand or so times from other people you'll eventually begin to realise it is true.

All too often people are simply too polite to those who engage in unacceptable behaviour, and it is under these conditions that racism and hatred grow. Doubtless the moderator will disagree, but I've written it and that's whats important. Hopefully you'll read it before the moderator deletes it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There is no better example to be found than the black communities around Detriot and the ones across in Windsor, Ontario. Both have common roots in U.S. slavery. But blacks in Windsor are far better off as a group: far more integrated into Canadian society.

But we are two different countries. That's like comparing The Germans and Austrians, both speak German, Caucasian, but culturally very different.

You have largely made it yourself. White society in the U.S. is far more racially biased than whites in Canada. Canada, for example, doesn't make it alright for police to kill unarmed teenagers who are in the act of fleeing.

But it IS ok for police to use force if the person is charging them and the officer feels his or her life is threatened.

They are looking at case after case in the U.S., and noting things like: "Statistically, as a recent Kirwan Institute study suggests, [an American Black male] is more likely to be singled out as aggressive, mean and/or intellectually deficient for similar behaviour than a white kid.

I don't get it, first you get angry when you say Blacks have nothing to be angry about and NOW you say if Blacks are angry and singled out as aggressive or mean that's ins some way considered racist, so which is it?

Should he enter into the justice system, he is more likely to be charged with a greater crime than someone with lighter skin; even if he isn’t, the black kid is more likely to be treated more harshly by judges and jurors." (Source: Macleans; 11/26/2014)

I think that's a bunch of crock, I believe it's more of how you behave and interact with law enforcement and the justice system.

The Kirwan study also found that, even from a very young age, a black kid who commits the same infraction as a white kid in a classroom is far more likely to be suspended. Macleans also commented on Wilson's testimony, noting how filled it was superhuman references to Brown's "demonic" ability to turn him into a weak, helpless 5-year-old, while Brown was "Hulk Hogan" who could strike a fatal blow with a single punch. (Even though several strikes by Brown barely left a mark on Wilson.)

I am NOT going to say that there aren't small vestiges of racism floating around, but to insinuate that all or even the majority of White people are racist is completely and utter nonsense. Also as a martial artist, you can get punched in the face without showing heavy facial injuries, that's NOTHING out of the ordinary or unusual.

This simply does not happen in Canada, and the Canadians are very mindful to make sure it doesn't.

But they have other problems, not to mention, the population of Blacks in Canada is 2.9% and the US it's 12.6, the culture and the demographics and environment are totally different. If Canada is so great, then why don't Blacks that hate on America go and relocate to Canada if the US is that bad?

... you are mistaken. You're citing the exceptions as the rule.

But what makes them different? Most of them weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths, so why could they make it?

I'm sorry, but the time for politeness has passed. You are very clearly and very obviously a racist and in denial about racism in the USA, and someone needs to tell you that for your own good. You probably won't change, but at least someone has had told you now, so maybe if you hear it another thousand or so times from other people you'll eventually begin to realise it is true.

First of all, I am not a racist, calling out inconsistencies and lies that the left spew about Blacks and that they are the people that are holding Blacks down and keeping them on the government nipple of dependence and if that means, I am an advocate of self-reliance and think that is the only way to uplift a person from the shackles of financial government dependence and liberalism then if that makes me a racist for wanting the best out of ALL Americans, including Blacks, then I am a racist.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I don't get it, first you get angry when you say Blacks have nothing to be angry about and NOW you say if Blacks are angry and singled out as aggressive or mean that's ins some way considered racist, so which is it?

You don't get it because you're not reading what's written. Try again. yabits didn't say black people are singled out as aggressive because they're angry. He said that (and I'm paraphrasing, because you obviously didn't understand it the first time round) that if two people display the same behaviour, the black male is going to be judged more harshly - as aggressive, mean and/or intellectually deficient - than his white counterpart. For the same behaviour. If two kids act up the same way in school, the black kid is more likely to get suspended than his white classmate. For the same behaviour.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

bass4funkNov. 29, 2014 - 01:24AM JST

... you are mistaken. You're citing the exceptions as the rule.

But what makes them different? Most of them weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths, so why could they make it?

This may not sit well with your personal philosophy, but they worked hard, were very good at what they did and GOT LUCKY. The bell curve tells us that there must undoubtedly be a lot of other talented and hard working African Americans out there, but they got nowhere because... RACISM. You're trapped in an idea that hard work + talent = success, but that just isn't true if you have sub-standard education, a broken home, a violent neighbourhood, and have to work 10 times as hard to afford to go to college as your White peers. And after that you're still facing massive barriers to employment because the cops were short on their quota of arrests one week so you got beaten by the cops and they claimed you had drugs on you (which you didn't) and your working mother couldn't afford a lawyer for you so you got a public defendant who plead it down to simple possession... but now you have a criminal record so you're unemployable.

And this isn't the story of one Black man, this is the story of tens of thousands in the USA and it is well documented.

First of all, I am not a racist, calling out inconsistencies and lies that the left spew about Blacks and that they are the people that are holding Blacks down and keeping them on the government nipple of dependence and if that means, I am an advocate of self-reliance and think that is the only way to uplift a person from the shackles of financial government dependence and liberalism then if that makes me a racist for wanting the best out of ALL Americans, including Blacks, then I am a racist.

Bull. You're clearly not interested in hearing anything that contradicts your image of the American Dream. You're blinkered. And you clearly and repeatedly have characterised MOST African Americans as dependant, talentless and lazy.

You're a racist. And I have no more time for you. I sincerely hope you wake up one day and realise what a horrible human being you are... because right now you're not a human being, you've disqualified yourself from the species through your delusion that you're some sort of superior species. You're not. You're drastically INFERIOR.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@cleo

Of course I understand what Yabits is saying! The problem is NOT that, the problem is Yabits doesn't want and will NOT accept or refuses to accept the real facts and what I am saying is, that is all in his head. I know, I live in a mixed community about 45 min drive South of L.A. in a city area known as Orange County a bit more affluent, conservative, cleaner, less crime, beautiful beaches, a very safe place. Because of the high standard of living, it helps keep the riff raffs out. Virtually every Black person I personally know or have seen does well in almost every area, employment, schooling, I have to honestly say, I have never seen Blacks being held up, mistreated, abused by the police or have seen any racial abuse by either the police or the Blacks. Compare that to L.A. county where the city is in complete chaos, poverty everywhere, a lot of police, Black on Black crime, gangs, shootings. Cities like Compton, Lynwood, South Gate, Watts, you would have to be suicidal to even think about driving in those neighborhoods, been there, did a lot of reporting. It's just a mess out there. The Blacks are MORE under suspicion and rightfully so because they engage in more criminal activity, to think that is NOT racist, that's just a fact. In Orange County, the vast majority of Blacks are NOT looked on in the same manner, regardless of the crime. So yes, there is a difference, but overall nowadays the disparity is based more on economics and conduct, how you are raised and environment. Also most of my Black friends have 2 parents in the home, they never mouth off at the authority, whereas in L.A., I have seen Blacks curse out the police, talk smack, it's their own fault. I have a lot of empathy for the cops. They have to deal with a lot. Many Blacks in those areas are taught to give the middle finger to the cops and to disregard authority, to rebel and to stand up to the cops. I guarantee, you will lose. What happened in Ferguson would NEVER happen in L.A. The Black family in many urban cities is broken, fragmented, where I live, it's NOT. That's the difference and when you grow up walking around with a chip on your shoulder, you will never rise above ANY challenge. No one is telling them to join gangs, telling to disrespect others or to drop out of school, that is their own decision and they have to live with the consequences.

@frungy

This may not sit well with your personal philosophy, but they worked hard, were very good at what they did and GOT LUCKY.

I lived and worked for over 20 years in L.A., the Blacks in all of the cities mentioned above that really wanted a change and took life seriously, they got out, they took even the lowest paid job just to get out, but sadly, the majority do not. It's NOT about luck. It's about will and determination. If any other immigrant and NON-American that has absolutely No resource or cannot speak English, they can do it, so what makes them different? Again, it's all a dumb liberal excuse to paint Blacks as the underdog, the undesired and the underprivileged when it's mostly about economics.

The bell curve tells us that there must undoubtedly be a lot of other talented and hard working African Americans out there, but they got nowhere because... RACISM.

Yes, and that is more of the exception than the rule.

You're trapped in an idea that hard work + talent = success, but that just isn't true if you have sub-standard education, a broken home, a violent neighbourhood, and have to work 10 times as hard to afford to go to college as your White peers.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you stop and vent your frustrations to the world and more importantly, inflict harm, damage and destruction towards your own community. You pick yourself up by the boot straps and you take another route. I see Hispanics do this EVERY SINGLE DAY and many don't speak English, but they prevail and they have it the worst. Again, you are making excuses. You don't let your fear of failure be greater than your desire to succeed, if that were true Obama should have been the absolute last person to ever occupy the White House being a Black man.

And after that you're still facing massive barriers to employment because the cops were short on their quota of arrests one week so you got beaten by the cops and they claimed you had drugs on you (which you didn't) and your working mother couldn't afford a lawyer for you so you got a public defendant who plead it down to simple possession... but now you have a criminal record so you're unemployable.

Ok, now you are really wandering off the range....Quotas??? I worked with the L.A., Long Beach and Irvine police department and did a lot of ride alongs and investigative reporting and I have NEVER heard of such nonsense at least NOT in those divisions, I can't speak for everywhere in the US, but I find that very hard to believe under any circumstance.

And this isn't the story of one Black man, this is the story of tens of thousands in the USA and it is well documented.

Funny, how the media never focuses on the Blacks that have succeeded and prospered in the US.

Bull. You're clearly not interested in hearing anything that contradicts your image of the American Dream.

I could say the exact same thing about you.

You're blinkered. And you clearly and repeatedly have characterised MOST African Americans as dependant, talentless and lazy.

The ones that Bang, jack people up, decide to do crime, drop out of school, do drugs, go against and rebel against the system, want to feel sorry for themselves and blame society and Whites for all their problems. Yes, these people are lazy. No one told them to do these things, you make it seem as if they have NO choice because of their financial hardship, because they might encounter some racism?? That should be a deterrence to stop trying? Again, you are making excuses and people like you and other libs are poisoning the thinking of Blacks and telling them that, society has dealt you a bad blow, the man is just NOT going to give you a chance, so we'll be your safety net and if you ever need us, we will always cover you. I will give you a fish to eat, but you guys NEVER teach the poor how to fish.

You're a racist.

prove it.

And I have no more time for you. I sincerely hope you wake up one day and realise what a horrible human being you are... because right now you're not a human being, you've disqualified yourself from the species through your delusion that you're some sort of superior species. You're not. You're drastically INFERIOR.

I'm sorry for wanting everyone to have a fair shot in life and I am sorry for wanting equality for Blacks in that, they become self-reliant and move away from government dependency and realizing that the entitlement culture is killing Blacks, I am sorry for wanting more Blacks to be entrepreneurial, to work in the private industry and enjoy the finer things in life and tell them to take care of their families and NOT drop out of school and respect authority and to rise above the racial injustices that the left has brought upon the Black community and systematically destroyed it. I am sorry for mentioning all of it. Yes, I am inferior for wanting equality and yes, I am delusional because thinking and being self-reliant is such a terrible and atrocious thing to be! Yes, I am a racist for wanting the best out of all Americans, including Blacks.

My bad Frungy.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The problem is NOT that, the problem is Yabits doesn't want and will NOT accept or refuses to accept the real facts and what I am saying is, that is all in his head. I know, I live in a mixed community about 45 min drive South of L.A. in a city area known as

I console myself with the only win-win in this situation: his kids. Either they're as morally and mentally bankrupt as their father, or they've got IQ's over 110 and will have a field day with him.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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