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Top Republicans accept 'alternative facts' from Trump

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By ERICA WERNER and LISA LERER

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Perhaps if Republicans don't have the courage to take a stand against "alternative facts", their districts should see to it that they are "alternative employed".

25 ( +25 / -0 )

Dear Clinton supporters,

Whine all you want, the election is over.

Fanatics on the right wasted 8 years on the "birther" issue to no avail.

Now it's your turn to waste your time try to de-legitimize the President.

-23 ( +3 / -26 )

“What it shows is we have a liberal press that is continuing to play into the Democrat playbook, which is in this case anything they can do to delegitimize the election of this presidency and try to put a damper on those of us who are ecstatic at his election,” said Rep. Chris Collins, R-N.Y.

No, what it does, you amoral, opportunistic piece of waste, is delegitimize the free press, the bedrock of our republic, and mainstream the kind of corrosive political propaganda machine one would expect from a totalitarian regime, right alongside nationalist, racist bile.

The worm will turn, spineless GOP. Mark my words.

19 ( +20 / -1 )

No, what it does, you amoral, opportunistic piece of waste, is delegitimize the free press, the bedrock of our republic, and mainstream the kind of corrosive political propaganda machine one would expect from a totalitarian regime, right alongside nationalist, racist bile.

Is that the best the left can dish out? Ok, now having said that and got that completely out of our system, can we move forward the election is over, we still have 8 years ahead of us.

The worm will turn, spineless GOP. Mark my words.

It did a week ago.

-28 ( +2 / -30 )

Now it's your turn to waste your time try to de-legitimize the President.

Actually, we don't have to try. Not only did he lose the popular vote by a historical amount, his actions just days into his presidency continue to reduce the standing of his office. Welcome to reality - just sit back and watch.

19 ( +19 / -0 )

some leading Republicans would rather follow Trump into the realm of “alternative facts” than confront the new chief executive.

United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile (From Wikipedia):

people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.

Curious that the best defense Nashi-bots and US rightwing extremists can come up with is whataboutClintonObamatheyalwayslied. They can only deflect, change the subject or respond with some vague, oblique comment that makes little sense. ROFL

I can understand the Russian support: they're hurting economically and stand to benefit from the Putintrump axis.

That so many Americans have suspended reason and believe the big lies shows how desperate they are to have big brother look out for them.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Considering that before the general election Obama encouraged illegals to vote without fear of reprisals and voter fraud was rampant in Florida, Michigan and California, perhaps President Trump is correct in his assumption. . . .

-26 ( +0 / -26 )

before the general election Obama encouraged illegals to vote without fear of reprisals

No he didn't.

a new president with a strained relationship with the truth

He doesn't have a strained relationship with the truth. If they were ever acquainted, they parted company long ago and haven't acknowledged each other since.

25 ( +25 / -0 )

At this point the election is over and Trump is sworn in. There is no reason to bring this up (by either side).

This is one reason I felt Trump is not fit for office...he (or someone in his inner circle) cannot let go of this and move on. It shows a lack of maturity. The best these guys can do is just keep quiet and say nothing about the issue as this would be something that would probably fade away.

@PTownsend...perhaps your comment is correct. If Trump followers want Big Brother to look out for them then that will increase the percentage of Americans feeling this way to a very large majority as I feel many supporters of Obama felt the same way.

....sarcasm? maybe...but who knows? Maybe soon enough Americans will want government to take care of their every need that a totalitarian state will finally come to fruition in the U.S....after all I have never quite seen things this strange in the (formerly) United States.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Move on, folks! Nothing to see here!

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

I used to be a NYTimes fan but with their obvious vendetta against Trump it is disgusting to read their paper. They openly call him a liar, etc. Sickening display of partisanship and liberal bias in what should be an objective newspaper of the highest caliber.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Oh Mitch, don't be such a ....

It's known as good old fashioned gaslighting. Continue to repeat lies over and over with no actual evidence until people start accepting them as reality. No surprise that good ol' Mitch McConnell fell for it. If top politicians can fall for it imagine the less informed, poorly educated.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Fanatics on the right wasted 8 years on the "birther" issue to no avail.

Did you honestly forget that the head fanatic is now president? Otherwise why bring that up? It only hurts your argument...

Considering that before the general election Obama encouraged illegals to vote without fear of reprisals

That's not even an alternative truth. That's BS. Do you have any alternative evidence of this?

voter fraud was rampant in Florida, Michigan and California, perhaps President Trump is correct in his assumption

Rampant is a strong word. Again, all the "real" evidence shows fraud is so rare it's negligible. But when have facts mattered to you guys.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

No he didn't.

He also didn't do enough to deport enough illegals from Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador either.

Actually, we don't have to try.

Yeah, that's the mentally deranged far left liberal progressives that peddle that constant debunked narrative.

Not only did he lose the popular vote by a historical amount,

Which doesn't matter since we don't use the popular vote system.

his actions just days into his presidency continue to reduce the standing of his office. Welcome to reality - just sit back and watch.

Well. Maybe as Spicer said, if the liberal media wouldn't be so overly hostile to Trump, their actions might be very different and I'm glad Spicer stood his ground and gave the media the tongue lashing they so desperately needed.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Somewhat of a smart move by Trump. By spreading something knowingly false he can see how others react. Now he knows the top brass at the GOP won't get in his way. I only know Trump supporters here and they are also on board with Trump's false info so again, free pass.

The GOP and Trump supporters might hate themselves for bending over for the billionaire, but the key is to know they will do it willingly. That's smart of Trump to establish that.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

I liked the John McCain comment the best. I am glad that he realizes if you dont support someone and they win anyway, you dont get to play anymore.

As far as the headline saying they ACCEPTED the alternative facts, I dont agree. They just gave the Democrat side usual answer that there is nothing to show it couldnt have happened.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

I only know Trump supporters here and they are also on board with Trump's false info so again, free pass.

Lol! We are? And you say this because....

The GOP and Trump supporters might hate themselves for bending over for the billionaire, but the key is to know they will do it willingly. That's smart of Trump to establish that.

8 years and your guy did absolutely nothing, Trump is barely on the job a week and making stuff happen and I hope these billionaires make more money to give more incentives and opportunities to unemployed and any other job seekers.

Rampant is a strong word. Again, all the "real" evidence shows fraud is so rare it's negligible. But when have facts mattered to you guys.

California is my home State, I know for a fact voter fraud has been a serious problem, that's an indisputable fact.

-18 ( +0 / -18 )

@TokyoE pls note:

@bass if the liberal media wouldn't be so overly hostile to Trump, their actions might be very different and I'm glad Spicer stood his ground and gave the media the tongue lashing they so desperately needed.

I admit to using 'big brother' somewhat facetiously, but when I read posts like the one above from Trump's followers, I really do start to wonder. Should the state tell a free press what to think? Trump already has the Murdoch media empire, Breitbart and dozens of rightist media outlets sing his praises and reporting 'alternative facts'.

On another note, a difference I see between what some Obama supporters may have wanted and what some Trump supporters seem to want is the former wanted the state to care more for those at the lowest end of the socio-economic ladder, whereas the Trump state wants the state to look after those at the highest rung of the ladder. Republicans and the ruling class have long sold the myth that what's good for the rich is good for the poor.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I'm actually going to walk back my comments a bit. Establishment Republicans have invested too much in promoting the myth of voter fraud so bending them over is probably a bit easier with this topic. They might find their spines again when they don't have to argue against their own bullshit.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Makes sense, the Rube has always been submissive and emasculated so their pitiful bending over for intense violation fits their standard profile. Shrewd move by Trump in identifying the dissidents in his party so he can remove them and only leave in the betas

8 ( +8 / -0 )

California is my home State, I know for a fact voter fraud has been a serious problem, that's an indisputable fact.

Funny, Trump thinks that's a fact too. Neither of you seem to know what a "fact" really is though. Facts require evidence. Do you somehow have evidence that no one else has?

http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2016/nov/28/donald-trump/pants-fire-trumps-claim-about-california-voter-fra/

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Mr. Townsend...thanks for explaining and it makes sense. Your point is well taken.

In the post you asked, "Should the state tell a free press what to think?" Absolutely not. Unfortunately the media in the U.S. has become extremely biased.....some to the right....as we are seeing now...and some to the left as we saw under the Obama administration. I am also very concerned about some of the very severe punishments being levied against some of the protesters who attended the inauguration. For me this is not an "anti Trump" concern rather an indication that some of the police state tactics the U.S. has engaged in since the advent of the Patriot Act will likely continue.

I am completely against mechanisms to limit/block free speech and reporting. For those of us who want to read/hear all opinions (even those with bias) and make decisions for ourselves this freedom is essential. I like to read the NY Times, The Nation, Breitbart, etc. Each of these publications has a bias, however that does not mean all they report is untrue. I do not want someone telling me what I can and cannot or should and should not read. I would prefer to make that decision on my own.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Making America Great Again #AltFacts. Yuuuge, bigly, unpresidented #AltDictionary White Supremacy #AltRight

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Just when I thought Republicans could get no stupider than they already are, they admit they are open to alternative realities. and yet at the very same time, if you remind them of that, they ask you to "forget about it and move on". Absolutely amazing.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

bass4funkJAN. 25, 2017 - 10:42AM JST

8 years and your guy did absolutely nothing, Trump is barely on the job a week and making stuff happen and I hope these billionaires make more money...

Very likely.

...to give more incentives and opportunities to unemployed and any other job seekers.

LOL.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Lindsey Graham, Republican Senator from South Carolina, is not usually a man I have a lot of respect for. However, in this case he is either standing up for principle or smart enough to realize that Trump's "alternative facts" are in the long run going to sink the GOP. I suspect the latter. Still, kudos for being wise:

"To continue to suggest that the 2016 election was conducted in a fashion that millions of people voted illegally undermines faith in our democracy. It's not coming from a candidate for the office, it's coming from the man who holds the office. So I am begging the president, share with us the information you have about this or please stop saying it."

"As a matter of fact I'd like you to do more than stop saying it. I'd like you to come forward and say having looked at it I am confident the election was fair and accurate and people who voted voted legally. Cause if he doesn't do that, this is going to undermine his ability to govern this country."

One might think that if 3 million non-citizens had indeed voted in the election, the Trump administration would order an investigation. Regardless of the fact that Trump won the electoral vote, voter fraud on that level would constitute a grave threat to democracy from this point forward. One might think.

But not Sean Spicer.

"We're here on day two. Let's not prejudge what we may or may not do in the future."

i.e. Not going to happen.

Spicer knows Trump's claim is total nonsense.

But he's willing to lie through his teeth to keep his job.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Why does the Associated Press decid to highlight this sentence? The MSM is so irrelevant these days they've finally resigned themselves to click bait BS. I think Trump signing his first drone order was much more important. Hold-on lefties. He didn't drone the Yemenies like Obama has been doing. He droned al-Qaida in Yemen.

NOPE! We have to revisit some BS that the MSM seems important. Not really. The MSM knows how the lefties knees work. pfff

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Since they lost in an EC landslide last November it's funny to witness how the party of the "Super Delegate" now find themselves clinging to a questionable popular vote tally in a vain attempt to remain relevant. . . .

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Funny, Trump thinks that's a fact too. Neither of you seem to know what a "fact" really is though. Facts require evidence. Do you somehow have evidence that no one else has?

Sorry, lived in CA for over 35 years and being in this Weber liberal State, I wouldn't believe anything those stats say, I believe what I visually see and have seen, so there is a problem with illegals voting, driving, getting medical care and other forms of assistance they should never be getting as illegals,

Just when I thought Republicans could get no stupider than they already are,

Dems are beyond a minority in Washington and across the country holding seats and you say that with a straight face?

they admit they are open to alternative realities. and yet at the very same time, if you remind them of that, they ask you to "forget about it and move on". Absolutely amazing.

Yeah, now you know for 8 years what that felt like, pretty amazing, huh?

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Now it's your turn to waste your time try to de-legitimize the President.

I reckon Trump and co will do a grand job of delegitimizing themselves.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I believe what I visually see and have seen, so there is a problem with illegals voting,

Wow. As a long term California resident, our journalist friend has personally seen millions of illegals voting. Now I'm convinced: widespread voter fraud is real. No need for an investigation. The Washington Post will soon publish bass4funk's bombshell findings.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I reckon Trump and co will do a grand job of delegitimizing themselves.

If they allow the liberal media to run the constant narrative, maybe.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

lived in CA for over 35 years and being in this Weber liberal State, I wouldn't believe anything those stats say, I believe what I visually see and have seen, so there is a problem with illegals voting

Ok, so you believe what you have visually seen. Please tell us how you identified that someone you were watching voting was an illegal, and shouldn't have been voting legitimately. And why, if you as an observer were able to identify them as being an illegal, were the polling station staff not able to make that determination themselves, and prevent the person from voting?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Wow. As a long term California resident, our journalist friend has personally seen millions of illegals voting.

Not just voting.

Now I'm convinced: widespread voter fraud is real.

Not only voter fraud.

No need for an investigation. The Washington Post will soon publish bass4funk's bombshell findings.

That would mean getting rid of every single leftist journalist, not about to happen.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

if you as an observer were able to identify them as being an illegal, were the polling station staff not able to make that determination themselves, and prevent the person from voting?

Pssst! Because they were liberals!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Illegal entrants have far more to gain by voting for Hillary. How does the media know there is no evidence that illegals voted? They dont have to provide any ID, how do they know? All but three states that dont require voter ID requirements voted Dem.

Media is on a smearing campaign. Joke.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

How about this for a deal:

I'm willing to stop talking about voter fraud, if the left stops talking about Clinton winning the popular vote. Both are irrelevant and, at this point, finished.

No G7 country uses popular vote to choose a leader. The election campaigns are waged with the electoral college in mind, not the popular vote. It's like the Carolina Panthers complaining that they "really won the Super Bowl" last year because they had more yards on offence than Denver. The game isn't played for yards, and the election isn't held for individual votes.

As for fraud, again I think most if not all other G7 countries require some form of identification in order to vote. I've been shocked that MORE voter fraud doesn't happen in the US. But again, a dead issue.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Election fraud does occur, on all sides. But that's not the issue.

The issue is scale.

Election fraud in the scale of millions is unproven. If they truly believe that, then it would be all hands on deck. Election fraud in that scale means the President should be calling for Congressional inquiries, FBI investigations, subpoenas everywhere since election fraud of that scale would involve a whole lot of people who are in on it, etc.

Because election fraud of that scale would be a very big deal and cannot be left unfixed. It would need to be fixed ASAP since it won't just affect the Presidential election but it'd also affect all the Congressional, Governor, and state elections that all happened at the same time.

So if they truly believe there's election fraud of that scale, then they should be doing something about it immediately. They would be derelict of their duty if they're not.

But first and foremost, they should show proof. Because wasting all that government money, manpower, time, and resources on a wild goose chase would be very costly and stupid. So if they have facts, make sure it's solid, not just speculation or extrapolation - and share those facts for everyone to check and review.

However, if they don't do mass mobilization about this very serious and massive fraud, then they don't truly believe it's that massive. Remember, the issue is not that election fraud happens (which all sides agree happens in smaller scale) - the issue is if it's in the scale of millions.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@lostrune2,

They dont need ID in quite a few states ie. California and NY (most populated and DEM states) so no proof that it doesnt happen also.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

California and NY (most populated and DEM states) so no proof that it doesnt happen also.

The problem here is that it is impossible to prove non-existence. That's why there has never been any direct proof to prove the non-existence of a god, because there can't be. So when it comes to saying something that exists, the onus is on those saying it exists to prove so, as the opposite is impossible to prove.

So the argument that 'there is no proof that it doesn't happen' as proof that it does, is a non-sequitur. The conclusion does not match the premise. You cannot conclude it does exist based on the fact that there is no proof that it doesn't.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@FizzBit

The MSM is so irrelevant these days they've finally resigned themselves to click bait BS.

News flash, the MSM has been about ratings and views (i.e., money) for a while now. They're only left on social issues, but they're bias is corporate.

I think Trump signing his first drone order was much more important.

I think Trump signing executive orders advancing the Keystone / Dakota Access Pipeline is more important, at least in terms of revealing his true intentions... Trump has investments in the energy company building the pipeline.

Yes, the MSM won't talk much about that either because they're deep in the pockets of corporations, and so are Republicans and so are neo-liberals on the Democratic side. But don't pretend that Trump is any better.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Before the election, Trump tweeted the fact is that election has been rigged. If he lose, he will not accept the outcome because he does not like being rigged.

After the inaugration day, Trump tweeted the most dishonest human on that earth have twisted his 1.5 million audience were less than 150. His crowd was larger than any President crowds as alternative fact. Media forgot the fact that Trump is the most charming President since 1776.

For losing popular votes, Trump tweeted that Crooked Hilary have been voted by 3 to 5 millions illegal aliens because he forgot to build the great wall between US and Mexico.

Wise GOP elders have accepted Trump is a fraud who loves exaggerating. Paul Ryan may be yong enough to be his grandson. However he is the fatherly figure for Trump for mentoring how to behave like a twitter and twister.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@Strangerland,

Not sure what proves your philosophy. Can make opposing statements either way.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Not sure what proves your philosophy.

What philosophy?

It comes down to this - the onus is on those claiming illegal voting to prove it happened. Trump has offered nothing.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@Mr. Bum

I've always said the MSM is corporate so no disagreements there.

Trump has investments in the energy company building the pipeline.

So, Trump ran for president JUST so he could advance the Keystone pipeline and make a few bucks? You know how ridiculous that sounds? He also pulled back some of the fracking stoppage.

So don't pretend that Trump is any better.

Trump is MUCH better than the corporate MSM.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The notion that election fraud is a fiction is not true.” so the Republicans admit election fraud is real and that 3~5 million illegal votes for Clinton was a possibility, even though there is no evidence to support their claims. So by their logic its also very plausible that the Russians hacked the election to support Trump against Clinton, for which there is CIA/FBI evidence Which is it cant have one without the other.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

GOP representatives and GOP supporters are too far gone for help or remediation

5 ( +5 / -0 )

liberal progressives... that used to be a badge of honour... when did it become an insult?

The day when liberals decided to back Wall Street and became hegomonic. LBJ was our last true liberal president. Bill Clinton sure as hell wasn't.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

@FizzBit

So, Trump ran for president JUST so he could advance the Keystone pipeline and make a few bucks?

Of course that's not the only reason, there's also his raging ego and narcissism. But seriously, at best he thinks the way to make America great is to make corporations even richer, the environment or the working class be damned. Why else make the picks he did for his cabinet?

You know how ridiculous that sounds?

You now how ridiculous you (and the current President) sound when you cry "fake" at demonstrative facts?

Trump is MUCH better than the corporate MSM.

How so? He's not only pro-corporations, he is one. Or do you actually believe he'll have nothing to do with the businesses he handed over to his kids? Do you know ridiculous that sounds?

Also the MSM may chose what they do and don't cover but they rarely lie outright, they've got reputations to maintain. Trump on the other hand, doesn't give a damn about truth and neither do his supporters.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The day when liberals decided to back Wall Street and became hegomonic.

So do you criticize the Republicans for this as well, or do you feel they don't back Wall Street?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Strangerland

So do you criticize the Republicans for this as well, or do you feel they don't back Wall Street?

Right?

@FizzBit

Bill Clinton sure as hell wasn't.

You're right, he really wasn't much of one. So why blame the liberal and progressive movement? Why give Trump a pass?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Trumped up charges ahead.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The term to be used here may be insufficient or unproven rather than inaccurate.

By asking q question with the assumption that something is "inaccurate" already creates a problem, especially for politicians. Therefore it is difficult to get what may be considered an honest opinion and/or commitment.

That said, it will be interesting if the politicians themselves wold even try to resolve the issue by actually doing an investigation.

Fro all indications (my opinion) is that Trump is in his own way trying to get the politicians to actually start an investigation into the matter so that any future elections will not have the problem of "fixed" elections. Or he may just have the Justice Department do it should Congress fail to do so. In that process he may enlighten the public of exactly what is going on during election at all levels from the town, county, State to Federal levels. May be difficult to "fix" completely, but may definitely may make it much more honest and trustworthy.

Several things that are difficult to stop in any election any where elections are allowed and used is the "buying" of votes and "financing"those candidate that would do "favors", because it is like collecting taxes... unless it is visible and verifiable, you cannot touch it. But, then... it may be worth a try to "correct" anything within the system which like "tampering" with the counts or use of "force" to influence votes.

( Here any information that is "revealed" regardless of when, where, how, and why plays an important part of being "informed" to make a decision. It has nothing to do with "fair", "equal", "right", "wrong" or any such arguments. Voters need as much factual information to make their decision and choose that candidate.Any information (I believe) is supposed to "affect" and "influence" that decision making process. That is what the entire voting process requires and is vital to sound decision making process.)

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@mr bum and Stranger

I understand you want to attack Trump. I voted for Obama in his first term. When he sold out to the medical insurance corps, that was the "red line". I did give him a chance. There are thousands of "shovel ready" available jobs with the pipelines. Oil and coal is available. Not much you can do about it unless you want to be an ecoterrorist. I didn't think I was "blaming" anyone, just answering IMO, about the liberal progressive comment, which has since seems to be deleted, why I dunno.

Why give Trump a pass?

Why not!

there's also his raging ego and narcissism

who cares! Please stop being so dramatic.

Or do you actually believe he'll have nothing to do with the businesses he handed over to his kids? Do you know ridiculous that sounds?

Geeesh! Is it to much to ask for you to put away your crystal ball??

So do you criticize the Republicans for this as well, or do you feel they don't back Wall Street?

Of course. But they don't pretend to be progressive like the Dems.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

bass4funk: "Dems are beyond a minority in Washington and across the country holding seats and you say that with a straight face?"

Yes, absolutely. You don't see the Dems preaching "alternate facts" (and don't try to say they have without directly quoting them saying so!), and yet here you have Republicans LITERALLY saying they are willing to believe in facts that are not facts. So, yes, the stupidest people on the planet.

"Yeah, now you know for 8 years what that felt like, pretty amazing, huh?"

Where'd that happen except in cases where the years -- and I mean literally years, like with Benghazi -- were wasted after the Republicans THEMSELVES found Clinton innocent, and not just once. So, no, not the same thing.

But here... do tell us: Were more people present at Trump's inauguration, watching live, than at Obama's? Key word being "present", on the grounds. Not on "YouTube" or wherever else they are trying to backtrack with. Did the lines extend as long as Trump said they did. Yes or no? You probably can't answer without a "bbutwhatabouttheleft?", can you?

"Alternative facts" are only fiction, my friend, and you have admitted that Republicans buy into it willingly.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@lostrune2,

They dont need ID in quite a few states ie. California and NY (most populated and DEM states) so no proof that it doesnt happen also.

Oh it happens - I thought that's been made clear.

The issue again is scale. 3-5 million election fraud would leave a lot of evidence. Ya can't do 3-5 million without leaving significant evidence. 3-5 million is massive - that would have to happen in a lot of places, in a lot of polling stations, across multiple state lines (remember elections are controlled by the individual states, most of whom are under Republican administrations, not the federal government), over a period of hours on election day, involving a lot of people doing inside jobs, all the while with thousands of observer representatives from all parties watching over the polling stations. There's no way nobody could find any evidence of election fraud of such massive scale, if it does exist. The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the police detectives of all the localities, etc. would find something or someone.

(I don't think even Hollywood could make up a believable script that could pull off an election heist of such massive scale. That's how difficult I think it is to pull off.)

(BTW, 2 of the authors of the studies Trump were basing his belief on, they said Trump misunderstood what they wrote.)

Again, 3-5 million is massive. People don't seem to grok how massive that is. 36 of 50 states don't even have 3 million total votes cast! 43 of 50 states have less than 5 million total votes cast!

(And recall, Trump opposed the vote recounts - saying that there's no need for recounts because there's no significant vote irregularities, thus there's no reason for recounts. Can't say that there's no significant vote irregularities, then later say there's massive 3-5 million election fraud. He wants to have his cake and eat it too, lol )

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Again going back to this article, "alternative facts" is already a questionable title which invites a negative attitude toward "questioning" the process, the procedures, the actual activities that occurred which may have affected the voting process.

Have you questioned what that "alternative facts" actually are as being used in this article?

What do they mean by alternative?

What are the facts that the article is referring to?

The facts that has been "proven" (according to the media) is that certain States actually "allowed" illegal immigrants to register and to vote.The fact is that NO investigation was being conducted or any government agency has tried to determine exactly who are allowed to cast a vote. The key word used was "citizen". Illegal immigrants are not "citizens" although they may "reside" in the USA. To begin with legal permanent residents in the USA are not allowed to register or vote in any election.

The media should have asked, "Why are the "allegations" which was actually a fact, not being investigated and action taken?"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The top three Senate Republicans refused on Tuesday to disavow President Donald Trump’s false claim that millions of illegally cast ballots cost him the popular vote.

How can they state that they are false claims? Based on what? At most, they could write unproven claims.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The media should have asked, "Why are the "allegations" which was actually a fact, not being investigated and action taken?"

That's actually my point as well - if there is such massive election fraud, why isn't Trump calling for massive investigation right away, all hands on deck, since that's a very big problem.

Actually, some in the media asked that as well:

"Donald Trump’s claims of massive widespread voter fraud require great investigation"

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/trump-voter-fraud-claims-large-not-investigated-article-1.2890634

But all Trump admin has said is "maybe" they will investigate.

No, if it's that massive, ya should investigate, and right away, with massive force all hands on deck. Because that's a very big problem, if it exists.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

How can they state that they are false claims? Based on what? At most, they could write unproven claims.

'Unproven' infers that the claims are based on some sort of fact that hasn't been verified. I think that 'claims for which he has not provided any supporting evidence', while being a little verbose, is more accurate.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Fact is Mr Trump is a lier by all means, as he never filed tax returns, if representatives of republicans accept such man to be their president what that reflects on the republican representatives; if they are to be trusted they need to force him to file all tax returns for 18 years; if not what kind of representatives they are to their people voters, besides they now have a chance to prove if they are people's representatives, they can stall senate confirmations of all president's nominees to several top positions; if not these representatives prove beyond doubt they too are as good as this man called Mr, Trump , confirmed liers, is it not?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

if representatives of republicans accept such man to be their president what that reflects on the republican representatives

The republicans didn't elect Trump, the working/middle class independents did. The same ones who voted for Obama. The republicans wanted another Bush.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Liberals these days are like the most hardcore people I see around. Hilarious to see people cheering an obvious hippocrite like Meryl Streep dissing Trump as she applauds Roman Polanski.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

And now we have Trump Republicans. All of these people were Bush Republicans too. Until they were Independent Republicans under Obama.

It's called Denial, Fizz. And you of all people should understand.

How is the Trump Hegemonic Billionaire Swamp of racists and warmongers working out for ya?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Here we have the future of a nation, a proud nation. Teach our children to accept alternative truths and, in other words, lies.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yes, absolutely. You don't see the Dems preaching "alternate facts" (and don't try to say they have without directly quoting them saying so!),

You can keep your doctor, there's NO smidgen of corruption, Lois Lerner was a woman of high and impeccable integrity, no corruption within the IRS, Benghazi, the Clinton mails and servers, fast and furious gun sales. I could go on, but why? Liberals have their so called "alternate facts" they kept weaving for the last 8 years and the media didn't shrug one iota and now Spicer says something as dumb as how many people were at the inauguration and the press are having a complete meltdown? Good on Spicer for sticking it to them and keeping them on their heels, the nerve they have to dwell on something so trivial just goes to show how partisan the liberal press really are.

and yet here you have Republicans LITERALLY saying they are willing to believe in facts that are not facts. So, yes, the stupidest people on the planet.

Actually, you can't prove that Spicer lied. Because what you think are facts, if I don't accept them, doesn't mean that it's factual, I'm playing devil's advocate for a moment. From the appearance of the photo Obama had a bigger crowd, but then today social media is very different than what it was in 2009. So how many people watched on Skpe or Youtube or other media outlets we don't know, so if you take into account the viewers that weren't physically present, it could be and you can't rule it out.

Where'd that happen except in cases where the years -- and I mean literally years, like with Benghazi -- were wasted after the Republicans THEMSELVES found Clinton innocent, and not just once. So, no, not the same thing.

Uh-huh...Anyway, Hillary didn't win, so that's great news and water under the bridge, move on.

But here... do tell us: Were more people present at Trump's inauguration, watching live, than at Obama's? Key word being "present", on the grounds. Not on "YouTube" or wherever else they are trying to backtrack with. Did the lines extend as long as Trump said they did. Yes or no?

As I said, on the ground, No, but at the same time, you have to take into consideration that Obama was the first Black president of the US, it was a huge event and everyone that could come, especially Black people that were close to the area went to that historical event and should have, so No surprise here. Trump is just another White guy, although groundbreaking for being an outsider which is unique in itself, but still not as big as someone like a minority or a woman ascending to the presidency. That's not to belittle Trump in anyway at all, but to really say that Spicer lied about the amount of people, calling him a liar is not a smart thing to do.

"Alternative facts" are only fiction, my friend, and you have admitted that Republicans buy into it willingly.

No, it depends on how you perceive it and to call them outright lies in Journalism, you better have some hard facts to back it up and so far, not that many are willing to truly call "Alternative facts" an outright lie. None of these guys want to get sued, believe me, they love their jobs.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

there's also his raging ego and narcissism who cares! Please stop being so dramatic dramatic!? its his raging ego that has wasted the first week in office over who had the bigger crowd size. The man thinks hes the most popular and loved president in the last 100yrs, various sources clearly show he isnt. His thin skin keeps him up all night tweeting childish replies to anybody who criticises him. The orange will have a nervous breakdown before his term is up, all because of his oversized ego. He cant accept he wasn't the more popular candidate, so make up fictional crap about 3million+ illegals voting for Clinton with no proof to back his claims. All because of his overinflated ego!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

but to really say that Spicer lied about the amount of people, calling him a liar is not a smart thing to do.

Which you just did by explaining that Obama had larger crowds than Trump.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

if they are to be trusted they need to force him to file all tax returns for 18 years;

The FBI forced Hillary to fork over her server, that didn't turn out so well.

if not what kind of representatives they are to their people voters, besides they now have a chance to prove if they are people's representatives, they can stall senate confirmations of all president's nominees to several top positions;

The Dems don't have the votes to block any of the nominees, they will all be confirmed eventually, the Dems are just blocking the inevitable.

if not these representatives prove beyond doubt they too are as good as this man called Mr, Trump , confirmed liers, is it not?

That would depend on what you perceive as a lie.

The republicans didn't elect Trump, the working/middle class independents did. The same ones who voted for Obama. The republicans wanted another Bush.

And the Dems didn't really want Hillary, but they didn't have anyone else, they sabotaged Sanders run because they thought he could never win against Trump, either way, this is pretty much the end of the Washington establishment, which is long, long overdue.

Which you just did by explaining that Obama had larger crowds than Trump.

No, I didn't. On the ground, Obama had a bigger crowd, but now with the online sites around the country, the military that couldn't attend, we just overall don't know. So I'm not ruling anything out. I'm not calling Spicer a liar, but at the same time, all the other outlets can't disprove the opposite as well.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I know for a fact voter fraud has been a serious problem, that's an indisputable fact.

YEAH! Here we go....3.....2.....1......

BREAKING NEWS

Donald Trump calls for 'major investigation' into voter fraud after alleging, without evidence, millions of illegal votes

Warming up the pop corn popper it's going the greatest circus show on earth. Man, this Donald is losing it. This is gonna get good. They will officially investigate it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

but now with the online sites around the country, the military that couldn't attend, we just overall don't know.

Could have been billions across the universe. We just don't know. Donny is right to be upset by the dishonest media who only report known facts, and not unknown facts. Team Donny has got the thousand-yard stare, man. Like you're seeing beyond. Very groovy.

The press needs to give little Donny some space. He's a teenager and new to the presidency, so give him a chance to tweet tweet tweet for a while.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

BREAKING NEWS

Donald Trump calls for 'major investigation' into voter fraud after alleging, without evidence, millions of illegal votes

BREAKING NEWS

CNN: President Trump will direct federal resources Wednesday toward a border wall!

Yipeee!

Could have been billions across the universe. We just don't know. Donny is right to be upset by the dishonest media who only report known facts, and not unknown facts.

They are? Because the NYT says so? Because even the liberal media CAN'T dispute the claims?

The press needs to give little Donny some space. He's a teenager and new to the presidency, so give him a chance to tweet tweet tweet for a while.

We thought the same about Obama, however, he never grew up, I'm having more hope for Trump

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

CNN: President Trump will direct federal resources Wednesday toward a border wall!

More sales for ladders and ropes. Also Trump will make US taxpayers pay for it.

Yes, I can't wait for the comedies of the investigation and the wall.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Donny is right to be upset by the dishonest media who only report known facts, and not unknown facts.

Donny complains about the media not reporting unknown facts, while his supporters complain about fake news.

Sounds like they've got all bases covered so they can complain no matter what anyone does.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Spicer claimed, "this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe.”

Even bass agrees Spicer is lying, and that's saying something.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As a legal alien here in Japan, do I really think I could vote and get away with them checking ? How much less could an illegal alien vote, especially with the fear of being found out an deported ? Do they have an invisibility ring or something ?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I wish alternative facts were more accepted back in my teenage years. I'd have done so much better in school tests... "Sir, I know I said that the capital of Russia was China, but my answer isn't wrong, I'm just using alternative facts". :)

1 ( +1 / -0 )

More sales for ladders and ropes.

And more hiring positions for border patrol agents

Also Trump will make US taxpayers pay for it.

At least it's getting done, I'll gladly pay for it

Yes, I can't wait for the comedies of the investigation and the wall.

You might be surprised when that comedy turns into a drama.

As a legal alien here in Japan, do I really think I could vote and get away with them checking ? How much less could an illegal alien vote, especially with the fear of being found out an deported ? Do they have an invisibility ring or something ?

Seriously? How Japan deals with the issue of immigrants and immigration and how Japan deals with foreigners and visa overstayers is entirely different. Also the US has a long broken immigration system, Japan doesn't.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

BREAKING NEWS

CNN: President Trump will direct federal resources Wednesday toward a border wall!

Yipeee!

Wonderwall Bankrupts Superpower, President Shrugs.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wonderwall Bankrupts Superpower, President Shrugs.

Listening to msnbc again? Nice try! ROFL

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Still calling Spicer and Trump liars?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Facts? You mean like the 5% unemployment rate?

@Strangerland,

In your eyes that`s the way it works. Now that there is an investigation we can find out for sure.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Heh, you just proved my point.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

With a little bit of luck, perhaps both the Democrat and Republican Parties will be destroyed. Trump is the perfect example of the Ugly American, filled with his own self importance, respecting no one and who throws fits anytime anyone disagrees with him. He wants to run the entire world like one of his businesses, and cares nothing about the allies. This might be a very good time for America's allies to learn how to get by without America and let the United States wobble to its own path of self destruction. Let the United States isolate itself. Watch the wealthy gut the government the treasury and leave the United States in ruins.

While the United States had great power at one time from the end of World War II totheendofthe1960s,it was not because of American superiority, but because America's industrial base was both undamaged while most of the rest of the industrial nations were in ruins, but also flush with the wealth created by the war for the United States. Our power came from the fact it took twenty years, or more for Europe, and Asia to recover.During that time the US could demand and get anything it wanted.

But America is no longer the manufacturing country doing nearly 90% of the world's manufactured goods. Nor are most American companies strictly American owned. Most in fact are heavily foreign owned now. So let Trump, and America, isolate themselves and learn how dependent that they are on their allies,and lose their big ego feeling of superiority. Once they wake up, then they will be meeker and more cooperative. It is long past time for the United States to grow up, become wiser, instead of foolish and childish.

I say this as a thirteenth generation American citizen and Marine Veteran of the Vietnam War.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

the onus is on those claiming illegal voting to prove it happened. Trump has offered nothing.

True. As Carl Sagan said in the past :

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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