The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.
© Copyright 2025 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Russia, U.S. agree to work toward improving ties and ending Ukraine war
By MATTHEW LEE and DASHA LITVINOVA RIYADH, Saudi Arabia©2025 GPlusMedia Inc.
158 Comments
TaiwanIsNotChina
russia claims it will prevent any security guarantee for Ukraine, from which anybody with brain cells must conclude more weapons are needed for a just peace.
KnightsOfCydonia
Absolutely pointless without Ukraine in attendance.
I'veSeenFootage
How can you have peace talks about the war in Ukraine... without Ukraine present? The Trump administration really is 100% behind Putin. Shameful and criminal.
sakurasuki
Recent administration can achieve what Biden can't achieve, well done!
sakurasuki
Ukraine will follow what US said.
Yrral
Ukraine is screwed
I'veSeenFootage
How exactly did he "unleash global inflation"? What policies did he enact to do that?
deanzaZZR
Bring them in later on in the process, obviously.
KnightsOfCydonia
If lavrov and the pro putinists are praising the talks, then absolutely they are not in anyone's interests of paying attention to.
russia must retreat, pay reparations and forfeit all sovereign assets seized.
any less shows US weakness.
Underworld
deanzaZZR
How can you have peace talks about the war in Ukraine... without Ukraine present?
That's a guarantee that you won't get a peace deal. Zelensky said as much.
Amateur Hour in the Trump administration.
Dango bong
I love seeing all these people who did NOTHING for three years now complain that the US is trying to get a peace agreement.
stormcrow
Trump: “Russia wants PEACE!”
Russia: Yes! Yes! PIECE of Ukraine, and PIECE of Crimea and a nice big PIECE of Eastern Europe would be nice!
Underworld
Dango bong
If they get a peace deal that Zelenskyy is happy with I will applaud them.
Anything else is "I told you so".
deanzaZZR
@Underworld Zelensky has every incentive to maintain the status quo. Z will be brought in once some boundaries are set.
I'veSeenFootage
Fixed it for you.
Underworld
deanzaZZR
What? He wants this war over as much as anyone.
It's those boundaries that he's unlikely to agree to that will scupper the whole deal for Zelenskyy.
Then it will be just a big waste of time.
bass4funk
Yes and No, Zelenskyy is technically not the President anymore, so that is a bit of a conundrum.
Zelenskyy faces perilous re-election odds as US, Russia push Ukraine to go to the polls as part of peace deal
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/zelenskyy-faces-perilous-reelection-odds-us-russia-push-ukraine-go-polls-part-peace-deal
No, they’re behind ending this war and yes, Ukraine will have to sadly make some concessions, if they don’t, Putin will continue this war, he will sacrifice everything no matter the costs on either side to destroy the chances and will power of the Ukrainian people to make sure they never become part of NATO. Ukraine can never and will never win this war, Russia won’t let that happen and we are not going to sacrifice American blood to get in the middle of this war, so if that means we have to get closer to Russia in order to achieve a ceasefire, so be it.
I'veSeenFootage
It's not a conundrum at all. He's the country's leader. He should be there. Anything else is simply russian propaganda.
And what concessions will Russia, the agressor, have to make? Why should Ukraine lose anything when they're the ones who have been attacked?
Imagine somebody comes to your house, kills your family and steals your TV. Then the police comes and explains to you that he gets to keep your TV because Trump is friends with him.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Trump achieved complete loss of dignity and surrender. I guess that is something?
No, they will not. This is not a game to them!
stormcrow
Trump: Ukraine should never have invaded itself! Russia was only trying to help!
Yrral
Ukraine will be carved up like a Thanksgiving Day turkey,and served by Trump too Putin
TaiwanIsNotChina
I think you will find Ukraine can leave Trump holding the bag of "results" from these talks fir quite a while. And you may have decided russia is an ally now but Putin gets a vote as well on that.
maxjapank
I have little trust in Rubio, who flip-flops on everything, and no trust in Russia as long as Putin is in charge. Any deal that doesn't return Ukraine's land back to them is unacceptable.
bass4funk
Not according to the constitution anymore, they’re supposed to have elections, he halted them, he’s there, he is semi-running the country, but constitutionally, he’s not the leader, this is why he’s not in the immediate peace negotiation talks
Bur he’s not, I don’t care propaganda or not, he doesn’t have a strong hand in this.
I don’t know, I’m not going to get bent out of shape or emotional without knowing the facts, let’s she what Russia will do and what Ukraine will have to give up.
I’m not going to make emotional apples to oranges argument, I just want this war to end and if that means Ukraine has to give up something major for that to happen, then so be it.
bass4funk
They can do that, their country, if they want further loss of life and want the country to become a land waste of rubble, then that’s their choice, has nothing to do with me or the U.S.
I'veSeenFootage
Funny how MAGA are now somehow specialists of the ukranian constitution, huh? The FSB has obviously been a very good teacher.
No reason to get emotional since it's not your country getting annexed and your people killed, right?
Great, so you admit you're on Russia's side then.
Nifty
Ukraine should have a meeting with the Chinese, and not invite Russia or the US, about the feasibilty of turning all of Russia over into Chinese hands in order to have peace in the region. Keeping a straight face while making the suggestion would be tough, though.
The Avenger
Zelensky is not pleased and said elections can't be held under martial law. I don't think he's going to have a say in that!!! All the negotiations took place between Russia and the United States, and no Ukranian officials were invited. Not invited = "Irrelevant".
itsonlyrocknroll
In an interview with The Associated Press after the meeting, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the two sides agreed broadly to pursue three goals: to restore staffing at their respective embassies in Washington and Moscow, to create a high-level team to support Ukraine peace talks and to explore closer relations and economic cooperation.
The top priority is not focused on Ukraine, more restoring full political/diplomatic economic ties between Russia/US, under a completely reformed restructured set of agendas parameters in Europe.
US European relationship especially outside of NATO is or could be seen viewed as unfit for purpose.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said his country would not accept any outcome from the talks since Kyiv didn't take part, and he postponed his own trip to the kingdom scheduled for Wednesday.
Neither President Volodymyr Zelenskyy or any European leader presence has been requested required or even brokered for an opinion
Not just side-lined but openly snubbed, rejected.
French President Emmanuel Macron on Tuesday said he spoke by phone to Trump and Zelenskyy following Monday's European meeting.
President Emmanuel Macron is being politically humoured, strung along, a classic "breadcrumbing" tactic.
A faint nod of awareness but in private distain to be ignored, overlook even.
Tariffs how they are implemented could well give an insight in how serious US/Europe relationship has collapsed.
The negotiation main agenda is how far US government feels EU/UK/Europe "responsibilities" require resetting.
How far and wide US government withdraws future security commitments. .
JD Vance role at the MSC could well signal more than a nail spitting public beasting.
ok1517
If this headline weren't so serious, I'd laugh!
"Russia and USA agree to work to improving ties and ending Ukraine war"
Did you people listen to what that Rubi(c)o(n) said?
If not, here it is:
"The “peace agreement” with Russia over Ukraine (**without Ukraine’s presence in the talks) would create an “incredible opportunity to **partner with the Russians geopolitically, on issues of common interest, & frankly, economically"
Donald and his administration are throwing Ukraine under the Putain bus for personal gains, splitting the Ukraine area and resources already between them - once again, Google (or Yahoo or whatever) Ribbentrop Pact! The same is happening here some 90 years later!
bass4funk
They talk to people who are
Depends
Sorry, but it is true, I’m more concerned with my country and I’m not wrong or shy to say that, nor am I apologetic. It’s sad, it’s heartbreaking, but in the end, it’s not my problem.
No, I’m on the side of the U.S. and ending this war, how Putin and Zelenskyy feel is less relevant to me.
Kaowaiinekochanknaw
From fighting in the trenches with only shovels to peace talk summits with the US.
How time tells the real story.
Hope no one feels too "played".
Mr Kipling
Russia and the US are negotiating the end of the Ukraine/Russia war. Do you need any more evidence that this is a proxy war?
TaiwanIsNotChina
Isn't that interesting how the MAGA thinks that 1% of government revenue he will never see returned to him is more important than Ukraine's sovereignty or US national security.
I'veSeenFootage
Oh really? Pray tell us, what specialist of the ukranian constitution have you talked to recently? Jesse Watters?
If you were really concerned about your country, you would not cheer while its bank regulators and air traffic controllers get fired with no replacements.
TaiwanIsNotChina
No, they listen to traitors who think they are.
Tokyo Guy
Haha, sure they do.
The fact that they don't even see the need to involve Ukraine in these "talks" makes it completely and unambiguously clear what they're really about: the final stage of Trump rolling over and showing Putin his belly.
BB
Trump shifts blame for Russia's invasion to Zelensky: "You should have ended it -- three years, you should have never started it." Sure. Ukraine started it...
TaiwanIsNotChina
This is proof that the current administration considers Ukraine expendable and nothing more.
TaiwanIsNotChina
It's the MAGAs who did nothing for three years and are now trying to get a surrender agreement.
Wasabi
The US is selling out Ukraine to Russia.
A new low for the US. How do you defend this MAGA?
bass4funk
If you think putting MY country first or any American who does makes them a traitor then that’s what you think, I don’t have a problem with it and it means absolutely nothing to me or other people who put the U.S. first.
bass4funk
US national security is fine, we have Israel, Germany, Poland and Finland.
Not “if”
I feel the way I want, but thanks anyway.
Underworld
bass4funk
How can you have peace talks about the war in Ukraine... without Ukraine present?
Incorrect. He is the President of Ukraine. Putin is pretending that he isn't in a move to play Trump.
No, he doesn't. Elections aren't constitutionally allowed during martial law.
The Trump administration really is 100% behind Putin. Shameful and criminal.
Most likely Putin will roll Trump's team in insisting on demilitarizing Ukraine, Russian language primacy and/or control of Kyiv. That's a non-starter for Ukraine.
That's what they said about Afghanistan (twice) and Vietnam. And yet, those countries won.
TaiwanIsNotChina
It can also be a war for Ukraine's survival. We will see how much of a proxy war it is by whether they accept the Trump surrender proposal, which they won't.
I'veSeenFootage
Funny how people who claim they put "their country" first also pretty much hate over half of its population with a passion.
Tokyo Guy
A new low for the US. How do you defend this MAGA?
MAGA don't "defend" as such. They are programmed to approve of everything Trump does, without exception, and they have evolved an extreme form of semantic manipulation which allows them to do this.
As the average MAGA is criminally uneducated, most of this semantic manipulation takes very simple forms, often manifesting as short utterances such as "LOL", "ROFL", "Libtard", etc. Those with marginally more education are able to form short sentences like "But the dems", "But her emails", and combinations of the earlier mentioned short utterances: "ROFL, Libtard" and the like.
There are some MAGA who have a moderately high level of education, and they are primed to respond with the "whatabout" technique, in which they make clumsy attempts to redirect the topic to one which may appear to be tangentially related to the matter at hand, but which is in fact not relevant thereto.
rainyday
Which Ukrainian constitutional law experts have you talked to?
Underworld
bass4funk
It's not a conundrum at all. He's the country's leader.
Nope. Not even close. His term has passed, but he remains in power until new elections, which aren't constitutional under martial law.
Also, if we look at it, Putin's term (over 25 years) isn't constitutional.
Funny how MAGA are now somehow specialists of the ukranian constitution, huh?
And those people believe the lies that Putin says about it.
quercetum
Where are the comments by the incredibly gullible who foolishly believed peace negotiations had to be done within literally 24 hours?
Russia keeps its new territory. Ukraine not in NATO with no peacekeeping forces or the war continues. It’ll be the latter but
Trump somehow finds a third option compromise, exposes and punishes slush funds disguised as Ukrainian aid, if any, and ends the war.
Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize if he can pull this off.
Underworld
Mr Kipling
If Zelensky agrees with the outcome, sure.
But I doubt he will, which will definitively demonstrate that it isn't a proxy war.
Simon Foston
bass4funkToday 08:23 am JST
Yet you support your government's messing around in Ukraine instead of focusing on the everyday problems in your country that the voters actually elected that government to fix?
KnightsOfCydonia
this whole fiasco of foreign policy doesn't pass the sniff test and reeks of both putin's and trump's "modus operandi".
Underworld
quercetum
Yup. Only foolish people believe Trump.
Zelenskyy won't agree to that.
Oh, you believe the Kremlin "slush fund" misinformation.
Unlikely, the way they are going.
A big "if".
itsonlyrocknroll
The 4 agreed principles include:
*1)** To re-establish the functionality of our respective missions in Washington and Moscow. For us to be able to continue to move down this road, we need to have diplomatic facilities that are operating and functioning normally.*
*2)** We’re going to appoint a high-level team from our end to help negotiate and work through the end of the conflict in Ukraine in a way that’s enduring and acceptable to all the parties engaged.*
*3)** To begin to discuss and think about and examine both the geopolitical and economic cooperation that could result from an end to the conflict in Ukraine.*
*4) **The five of us that were here today… are going to remain engaged in this process to make sure that it’s moving along in a productive way.*
Number 3, vaguely mentions "Ukraine", its ambiguous, deliberately opaque, lacking a clear resolve, or any strong communicative goal.
As say in compassion to number 1.
Sorry Ukraine.
Where are Europe?
Having another meeting?
Macron struggling, "quick round the table vote, Canelé, croissant or a delicious Kouign-Amann"....?
wallace
During the talks, Russia continued to bomb Ukraine.
Tokyo Guy
During the talks, Russia continued to bomb Ukraine.
Thus showing how seriously they intend to take said talks.
My guess is that Putin will offer up some ridiculous terms which will benefit him, Trump will accept them because he can go back and boast to MAGA that he's a master negotiator, Zelenskyy will tell them both to take a hike, then Putin will proceed to carry on exactly as before, losing around a thousand men a day and not giving a toss.
wallace
Putin has said no European or NATO peacekeepers will be allowed into Ukraine.
KnightsOfCydonia
Something along the lines of : Imasu dake ,Okane dake, Jibun dake and to hell with everyone else.
Harry_Gatto
Wasn't someone once bragging about ending the war in 24 hours, what happened to that?
Toblerone
A whole lot more than was happening with the previous administration! Progress - Well done!
lincolnman
The once proud party of Reagan showing they are now nothing but the Kremlin's useful idiots...
Kaowaiinekochanknaw
Whatever ends the young men who are on the lines and the innocent casualties dying the sooner the better.
Since the coup in 2014, there have been far too many deaths and so much misery for the people that live in the contested area. Both ethinc Ukranian and Russians living there along the Azov and Black sea regions all the way West to the Dnieper river. Just for military arms to be used and bought so, warmongers and corrupt gas and biolabs organizations to make profit off of the suffering.
Reconstruction vultures will be swarming too.
I am guessing it's why UK and Europeans are so upset about not being at the table when it all gets carved up.
itsonlyrocknroll
Let me offer a mail link that landed in my inbox from a dear past college mentor.
Jeffrey Sachs reveals the hidden truths of the conflict in Ukraine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9x5E0ETyv8&t=133s
I don't really agree with the underlining overtures, its typical of the use of "histrionics" to throw shade on current events...
But it worth a view.
Donald Trump over in 24 hours, wouldn't have begun etc, all simply misses the point.
wallace
Which countries will contribute to the Ukraine reconstruction? EU, USA, Russia.
Underworld
itsonlyrocknroll
Nobody listens to Jeffrey Sachs anymore. He's a Russian shill.
That's Trump is a compulsive liar or that his base don't care?
Simon Foston
TobleroneToday 09:23 am JST
A bunch of men sitting around a table talking about stuff is not progress. Achieving tangible results is progress.
Toblerone
Of course no mention from the left that movement towards peace is actually happening ( unlike under the war mongering Sleepy Joe and his equally useless token sidekick), just the constant carping and whining that we’ve come to know so well.
Underworld
itsonlyrocknroll
Having watched it, it is straight up lies.
No wonder a group of economists wrote an open letter to Sachs:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230806172854/https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20/open-letter-to-jeffrey-sachs-on-the-russia-ukraine-war/
Underworld
Toblerone
I haven't seen any indication of that.
Toblerone
Whatever ends the young men who are on the lines and the innocent casualties dying the sooner the better.
It is not only young men, Ukraine is pressing men in their 60s into front line service too, not to mention pregnant women.
Geeter Mckluskie
Trump has explicitly said that he doesn't want pieces of men strewn across the landscape of political discord
Toblerone
Putin has said no European or NATO peacekeepers will be allowed into Ukraine.
And he is quite correct.
Underworld
Toblerone
So what happens if Putin breaks the agreement and starts the war again?
Why would Zelenskyy agree to something like that?
Underworld
Toblerone
Whatever ends the young men who are on the lines and the innocent casualties dying the sooner the better.
Russia have people in crutches on the front lines!
Toblerone
Russia have people in crutches on the front lines!
Aren’t you forgetting something? Don’t forget they’re only armed with shovels, eh.
wallace
Toblerone
Putin has said no European or NATO peacekeepers will be allowed into Ukraine.
You do not agree with Trump who said it will be European troops and not American ones.
"US President Donald Trump has said he is 'all for' British and European troops being deployed to Ukraine if a peace deal is reached with Russia."
Underworld
Toblerone
Russia have people in crutches on the front lines!
See it for yourself:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/01/21/what-the-f--a-russian-soldier-mutters-as-his-wounded-comrades-are-ordered-to-limp-into-battle-on-crutches/
wallace
Zelenskyy can only agree to a peace treaty with Russia if there are security troops on the ground protecting Ukraine from further Russian attacks.
Toblerone
See it for yourself:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/01/21/what-the-f--a-russian-soldier-mutters-as-his-wounded-comrades-are-ordered-to-limp-into-battle-on-crutches/
Forbes. Riiighht…
itsonlyrocknroll
Underworld, no debate from me on Jeffrey Sachs interpretation.
What is significate is this meeting Saudi between US Russian focus to prioritize diplomatic economic relations first and foremost. more over, to reset US/EU/UK shared values, the commitment to continue to uphold once genuinely shared belief system.
The term liberal extremism, is not just a threat to US people freedom, but also a clear and present danger to every principle of freedoms of speech. above government of China/Russia
Never has such change been ruthlessly instigated in the first one hundred days of a new US administration.
Ukraine could well become a casualty to such change, as US views European governments ideological politically toxic comparisons to Joe Biden 4 years in office.
bass4funk
Biden broke it, Trump’s trying to fix it.
wallace
Trump will agree to Putin having Ukraine if he can have Gaza, Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal.
itsonlyrocknroll
LIVE | Putin Aide Lavrov's Big Warning To NATO After Talks With Trump Diplomats On Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnucxTf7ofw
Please review, can you sense an underlining trend?
Ukraine future is not the overriding priority, but US/Russian shared interests, economic. military.
Lavrov tone towards UK/ EU member states shares a similar distain as US.
bass4funk
If he were, he would be included in the talks, he’s not. A leader would be period, because his country is the one that’s been destroyed. Throughout history every leader of a country involved in a war conflict was present during peace negotiations, he’s not.
Ok, I don’t care what you say, I’m going about the Ukrainian Constitution, your personal feelings don’t matter in this.
Well, Putin is involved, and his calling the shots with our President, I could care less about Russia or Ukraine, I just want the war to end, but Zelenskyy doesn’t have a strong hand in this, so his options are extremely limited, so not sure what he wants to do, but he doesn’t have a lot of leg room
No, but I can read print
I don’t believe either men, but I do believe that Russia will destroy that country and level it to the ground and we won’t be giving anymore money to Zelenskyy so it would be in everyone’s interest to try and end this. That’s the only thing that matters for me as an American, nothing else.
Underworld
Toblerone
See it for yourself:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/01/21/what-the-f--a-russian-soldier-mutters-as-his-wounded-comrades-are-ordered-to-limp-into-battle-on-crutches/
Center actually. And considered Reliable:
https://adfontesmedia.com/forbes-bias-and-reliability/
But I agree it is pretty surprising. And if you don't like Forbes, it's all over the internet, just Google it.
EvilBuddha
Peace in Gaza, Peace in Ukraine.
China making nice slowly with its Asian enemies.
In a fair world, Trump would be the rightful contender for Nobel Peace Prize but they prefer giving it to warmongers, such as someone who destabilized the Middle East and bombed more countries than any other US President.
grund
What is with the love affair the US republicans have with Russia? They see nothing wrong in Russia invading Ukraine. It is Ukraine's fault. Now let's give Russia what they want and have an election in Ukraine so that Russia, with the aid of the US, can install a Russian puppet president. I don't get it.
Underworld
bass4funk
Nope. Not even close. His term has passed, but he remains in power until new elections, which aren't constitutional under martial law.
You aren't talking about the Ukrainian Constitution.
The Ukrainian Constitution says that elections cannot be held during martial law.
Kaowaiinekochanknaw
Which countries will contribute to the Ukraine reconstruction? EU, USA, Russia.
The Governments of any players will all be involved in making the deals of when and where it happend although the reconstruction will be contracted to private corporations being paid by taxpayer money of the respective countries.
Many of whom bureaucrats have strong ties and direct investment through their wives, friends and family members.
There is a lot of money to be made here for some corporations and their investors.
Decades and decades worth of gravy train money off the misery of all that had to fight and suffer.
Wasabi
This is the new USA, is it great now?
Underworld
grund
Well, you get it way better than the MAGA people do.
Putin's sole aim is to disrupt Ukraine. If he can get the US to help him install a puppet, he will do that.
wallace
On one side of the table is the aggressor and invader Russia. On the other side, the USA is without any representative from Ukraine.
Will the USA try to impose a peace deal on Ukraine without involving it?
falseflagsteve
Finally this debacle can end
Peace prevails.
bass4funk
Is he in the talks right now with Trump and Putin? Yes or No?
I was
Well, there you go, you made my argument for me.
bass4funk
Trump is involved, but Zelenskyy seems less relevant now
Good question, whatever it takes, I hope.
Underworld
bass4funk
The Ukrainian Constitution says that elections cannot be held during martial law.
No, I didn't. Russia is pushing Ukraine to go against their own constitution.
It's not a problem because Zelensky won't do it.
And if Putin insists on it he won't get his badly-needed peace deal.
elephant200
Yes, under president Donald Trump, he will return the state of Alaska back to Russia. What a good news for the whole world!
wallace
Zelenskyy is and remains the elected president of Ukraine but I expect if the time comes for an election he won't run again. Putin insists he must stand down as part of any peace treaty. Already Putin is asking for too much.
bass4funk
You did, and again, is Zelenskyy at the meeting? Yes, No?
Then the war will continue that is on him
Then Putin will eventually level the country to the ground, 1000 years of history wiped out, and more displaced Ukrainians.
Blacklabel
Great to see negotiating going on at a table.
Underworld
bass4funk
No, I didn't.
Doesn't make any difference. If after the meeting Trump say this is the deal and Zelenskyy says no - he doesn't have a deal.
It's not a problem because Zelensky won't do it.
No, it will be on Trump for not including Zelenskyy.
And if Putin insists on it he won't get his badly-needed peace deal.
Nope. He needs a peace deal. His economy is a mess.
bass4funk
Oh, yeah? Maybe on paper
He wouldn't win again, let's not sugarcoat this.
I think Zelenskyy should step down. Otherwise, this conflict will never end.
Underworld
bass4funk
Russia is miles away from approaching Kyiv and have no ability to get there for years. They have about two years left in them before they are spent - based on the current rate of fighting.
Zelenskyy just needs to hold out.
bass4funk
Give it time, Russia has time and China, Zelenskyy doesn't, he's already semi-out
How? He won't get any money from the US, but if Europe wants to fund him, maybe he could, maybe....
Underworld
bass4funk
No, it will be on Trump for not including Zelenskyy.
Oh, so Zelenskyy is the president now?
Any peace deal Trump comes up with risks being rejected and that's on Trump and his inability to negotiate.
Nope. He needs a peace deal. His economy is a mess.
You spent the last 4 years thinking that Trump was President of the US.
Putin will be forced to stop.
wallace
bass4funk
Zelenskyy is and remains the elected president of Ukraine
No, according to Ukraine Laws.
but I expect if the time comes for an election he won't run again.
You don't know that.
Putin insists he must stand down as part of any peace treaty. Already Putin is asking for too much.
He will be there until the end.
Underworld
bass4funk
Russia is miles away from approaching Kyiv and have no ability to get there for years.
China won't get involved. And Zelenskyy is not semi-out.
Zelenskyy just needs to hold out.
And 40% of Ukrainian made weapons.
bass4funk
They don't need to, but they already supply them with some weapons
Was he at the meeting? Yes or No? See, you always do this, you can't answer because you know the answer, just don't go there, you just make yourself look silly, come on now
Depleting fast.
bass4funk
So was he at the talks?
And Harris just might make a comeback, correct?
Not too far off
wallace
Zelenskyy's approval rating is 69%. 24% strongly approve. 45% somewhat approve. 12% strongly disapprove.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1100076/volodymyr-zelensky-s-approval-rating-ukraine/
Trump's approval rating is just below 50%,
bass4funk
For the US that is very, very good. I am not worried about Zelenskyy he is on a ticker anyway.
wallace
There will be no peace treaty without the Ukrainians at the table just as there will be no peace in Gaza without the Hamas/Palestinians at the table.
itsonlyrocknroll
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is the heart and soul of every Ukrainian present and perished.
The entire nation has been cruelly callously cynically betrayed, by a Europe that pledged promised solidarity.
Yet I can detail number by number the "promise" and the "reality outcome"
A shameless EU fudge. Militarily, ecumenically.
Now to add insult to injury, embraced by a "sham" Marcon masquerade meeting of cowardly appeasement.
bass4funk
Then they are all doomed.
wallace
Putin invaded and started the war which he planned during Trump's first term. Zelenskyy didn't start any war.
geronimo2006
Trump is showing his true colors. He is on Putin's side and parrots Russian propaganda. I think the negotiations will lead to a deal unacceptable to Ukraine. Then they will have to choose between either thrown under the bus or fight on without US support. If Europe supports Ukraine which they probably will this could lead to a breakup of NATO. Something I know Putin wants and probably Trump as well.
wallace
bass4funk
There will be no peace treaty without the Ukrainians at the table just as there will be no peace in Gaza without the Hamas/Palestinians at the table.
The people of Ukraine and Gaza are going nowhere and will remain on their selected lands just as they have done for centuries.
kohakuebisu
I'm surprised Trump is blaming Ukraine for its fate without blaming Biden. Maybe its because by extension he would also be blaming Trump 1.0 and Obama. This conflict has been a long time coming. US internal communications released by Wikileaks foresaw conflict in Ukraine as long ago as 2007.
Ukraine has clearly been shafted. It (a previous leader, way before Zelenskyy) gave up its nukes for security guarantees and when Ukraine adopted policies that tested those security guarantees, they proved to be almost completely worthless. Promises of NATO membership and whatever military help would be needed at the start of the conflict have also proved worthless. However, "Ukraine woz shafted" does not justify a continuation of the war, since it is highly unlikely to produce a better outcome for the Ukranian people. Neoliberal media that tell you Ukraine is winning or has a chance of winning have been cranking out Orwellian levels of lies for three years. Do not believe them.
The lesson to take away is that you should be careful in choosing your allies, not place excessive trust in them, and not overplay your hand.
wallace
America claims its president is the leader of the free world. Ukraine was free until Putin's war. The US also signed a treaty with Ukraine to protect it. Is America's word now so useless? Should Taiwan worry about China invading and no American help liked promised?
bass4funk
Then they are surely doomed.
bass4funk
Putting the emotion aside, Ukraine will not win this war, they just won't, so Putin does have the upper hand, and again, the US will not continue to pay for this war to help Zelenskyy, so either Europe fills that gap or negotiate with Vlad, you might hate the proposals, but you don't have much to counter-offer.
itsonlyrocknroll
You know the irony here, the British wallow in it , Boris Johnson lead the way, only to be nailed by his own buffoonery,
Europe despised the fellow, a pork pie porting pompous prattling so and so.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Well, gee, if we have Israel on our side, clearly we have all our national interests and trade secured.
wallace
Trump has no endgame plan for Ukraine or Gaza. He wants Putin to stop the bombing so he can extract the rare earth minerals. But the biggest deposits are in Russian-held land and Putin will not be giving those up, even to his pal Trump.
bass4funk
Ok, but that all has nothing to do with the US getting out of this quagmire
RichardPearce
It is ironic how much screaming there is when Trump does the right thing fir the wrong reasons compared to when Obama and Biden do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.
Overthrowing the last democratically elected government a united peaceful Ukraine had to bleed even more 'profits' from Ukrainians for America's oligarchs was definitely the wrong thing and the wrong reason.
Cozying up to the losing side of WW2 in an effort to make America look stronger was also the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.
Accepting that the Ukrainians of the industrial and agricultural heartland of Ukraine will never accept the loss of sovereignty and democracy that the coup installed regime is demanding they accept is the right thing even if doing it because you're a vindictive selfish failure with delusions is the wrong reason to do it
ClippetyClop
Don't be surprised if Putin gifts the minerals in those areas to Trump in return for Trump bending over for Putin. Trump will gladly sacrifice his entire legacy for money.
wallace
bass4funk
Trump has no endgame plan for Ukraine or Gaza. He wants Putin to stop the bombing so he can extract the rare earth minerals. But the biggest deposits are in Russian-held land and Putin will not be giving those up, even to his pal Trump.
What happened to your promise to protect Ukraine? Can't trust the American word anymore.
reply "I didn't promise anything!"
Ok, then the promise from America.
bass4funk
Then you can't, oh, well.
I just care about the plight of Americans.
wallace
bass4funk
So Taiwan should be worried then.
bass4funk
Doubt it.
Fos
As we all know the main responsible for this full scale disaster is the big US industrial military complex, the same one that President Dwight Eisenhower warned against in 1961.
Despite massive Western backing, Ukraine suffered terrible losses and gained nothing from challenging Putin to a fight. The war has brought Ukraine to the brink, causing a massive refugee crisis, economic collapse, social disintegration and ever-growing death toll.
The aggressive pursuit of expansion at the expense of Russia has clearly failed as a strategy and now any negotiations will have to start with the military situation on the ground.
A reminder that US has sent over $110 billions of lethal weapons to Ukraine since the start of the conflict.
Wall Street is on all time high and the top 5 manufacturers in the world are all Americans. Go figure!
Greed&GunsUnderworld
bass4funk
China won't get involved.
Not many. But North Korea is supplying much ammunition.
And Zelenskyy is not semi-out.
See, you always do this, and pretend that Ukraine's decisions won't be made by Zelenskyy, whether he is at the meetings or not.
And 40% of Ukrainian made weapons.
Not depleting at all. Ukraine makes 40% of its needs annully. It is sustained production in Ukraine.
wallace
bass4funk
So Taiwan should be worried then.
America didn't keep its promise to Ukraine but you believe it would over Taiwan and would go to war against China. I seriously doubt that.
BTW there are no American troops in Ukraine but they are still fighting in Syria.
isabelle
Appeasing dictators is not "the right thing."
Trump is the Neville Chamberlain of our time.
Kremlin lies, plain and simple.
bass4funk
Then you don't, you are entitled to that opinion
I see.
Underworld
RichardPearce
Viktor Yanukovych was not overthrown, and certainly not by the US.
Underworld
Fos
Ukraine did not challenge Putin to a fight. Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked.
There was no aggressive pursuit of expansion and there was no expense of Russia.
Fos
As we all know that the ground for this conflict was prepared by US securocrats in the 1990s when Russia was emerging from the dissolution of the USSR. Washington has masterminded the coup in February 2014 against the democratically elected government in Kiev,
And now, while Ukrainians continue to suffer the consequences of this massacre, the warlords in Wall Street push Ukraine to sell off public assets in a privatization spree, US fossil fuel corporations like ExxonMobil, Chevron, and Halliburton are in talks to run its oil and gas industry
Nathaw
When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination. In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the US, Russia and UK; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads (which could be blended down and converted into fuel for nuclear reactors); and assistance from the United States in dismantling the missiles, missile silos, bombers and nuclear infrastructure on its territory.
According that treaty, US and UK have signature obligation for defending Ukraine with boots on the ground. In the reality, Ukraine was dumped like pregnant ex girlfriend without child support.
The moral of Ukraine tragic downfall was honestly believed and strictly followed that nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) as a non-nuclear-weapon state. If Ukraine developed own nuclear arsenals, Russia will not dare to invade as well as US will not dare to insult and downgrade as inferior pawn state.
According Ukraine experience, Japan should not trust US security assurances. US does not have permanent friend or enemy. It is a fair weather friend according geo politic interest.
wallace
bass4funk
what will the US do when China crosses a small stretch of water and into Taiwan. China has more than two million troops.
It will be over before Trump is out of bed.
Underworld
Fos
Viktor Yanukovych was not overthrown, and certainly not by the US.
There was no coup and US not involved.
If you think so provide evidence.
buchailldana
Lavrov will eat Rubio for breakfast.
The Russians must be laughing at the wannabe " diplomat"
bass4funk
Then you go and believe that.
And Zelenskyy is not semi-out.
Then they don't need our money, fantastic!!!!
wallace
More than 1,000 North Korean troops are casualties of the war. Killed or wounded. As are troops from Sri Lanka and India fighting for Russia.
Underworld
bass4funk
And Zelenskyy is not semi-out.
Yes he is. Just not at the me moment. Trump's folly.
Not depleting at all. Ukraine makes 40% of its needs annully. It is sustained production in Ukraine.
They need your money for 30% of their needs.
patkim
I absolutely feel for the Ukrainians. They were living their lives peacefully when one day, Putin and his troops decided to march in there and take their lands. They thought they could take it quickly and without a fight. Well, Ukrainians proved them wrong. Imagine if someone invaded America. I can guarantee that Americans would put up a fight too and it wouldn't be easy for their land to be taken. Now imagine if two other countries did the negotiation for us, how do you think we and the rest of the world would feel?
The people I don't feel for, are those on the right who voted for Trump. Many of them who are now coming out on SNS sites, and directly mailing Trump appealing to him to give them their jobs back and appealing to any sense of loyalty he may have for them since they voted for him three times. To those people, I say that they should've known this. Farmers whining that you lost your USAID funding, manufacturers of defense vehicles, equipment, weapons which used to be sent to places like the Ukraine to help them in the wars who are now complaining they have lost their source of revenue, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
The sad thing is, conservatives would have you think that aid money sent to other countries goes directly to those countries, when in fact, that money goes to Americans. Yes, that aid money gives jobs to Americans because they produce clothing, food, equipment, research, etc. which then gets sent to other countries. There are funding and deals with American companies and American workers to provide aid to other countries. It's not like they just send boatloads of cash directly to those countries. You take away that aid and funding, you start affecting many Americans.
patkim
That to me was the clear sign that the EU and Ukraine were being sidestepped and left out in the cold. The alcoholic Hegseth (yes, he was clearly drinking some kind of alcohol, since I know of no one who swirls their water) who is clearly out of his league and is a DEI hire, made it clear that Trump has already decided with Putin what they are willing to give him. By the way, has anyone ever seen any military families in the past ever boo a Secretary of Defense before? It clearly shows that they don't approve of Trump's recent cuts to the VA. Attacking and dismantling the VA, or Department of Veterans Affairs, was a clear sign that Trump and the GOP doesn't care anything about the military. As of now the hotline setup for veterans who are suffering from PTSD or other combat-related problems, has been stopped. That is so sad.
Blacklabel
this is Ukraine “winning”? Being excluded from the meeting about how their war will be unilaterally ended by others?
would hate to see their “losing”.
Blacklabel
it is. Reality keeps getting in the way of preferred narratives, doesn’t it?
bass4funk
Then he would not have been confirmed.
He is Black...Hispanic??
Recent reports suggest otherwise
If the Dems cared about the Vets then why do Blue states have so many homeless Vets?
Well, what is sad that now the left care and for the last 12 years they didn't, that is not only sad, but pathetic.
Underworld
Blacklabel
They are winning now.
They aren't excluded from the peace process because any decision on accepting a peace deal will be made by Zelenskyy.
It's just fool Trump's decision to exclude him that may end up with Trump failing to get a deal.
So would I.
TaiwanIsNotChina
China would also have disadvantages in having to blockade the entire island.
Perhaps, but I don't think Japan can prevent US forces from exiting the country and heading straight into the fight.
Blacklabel
then why are they and their supporters constantly whining that they are “excluded” and demanding a “seat at the table”?
TaiwanIsNotChina
Asinine things that Trump does don't reflect on Ukraine.
It's just embarrassing that Trump doesn't even know what he is signing himself up for reputation wise. One of the worst negotiators we've ever seen if he was actually serious about it.
Blacklabel
4 hours ago, NYT:
“Mr. Zelensky protested his exclusion from the discussions by canceling his own planned trip to the Saudi capital.”
total coincidence that he had a trip planned to Saudi at the same exact time as the meeting, I’m sure?