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Truck rams into Berlin Christmas market, killing 12 people

56 Comments
By KIRSTEN GRIESHABER

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56 Comments
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Just awful. Berliners have been told to stay at home.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Now, lets not jump to conclusions...

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

Awful start to the festive season in europe. Sadly Xmas markets are the perfect targets for such actions and mayors all over europe will think 'this could have been us' tonight.

Some stands at those markets are non for profit and ran by volunteers who spent all year helping the needy. The act of a gutless, heartless coward.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

This is just the beginning, I for the life of me will never understand how Merkel can allow so many refugees into the country without properly vetting them and allowing the system to not follow up on monitoring these people. I foresee the country will implode very soon and a revolution will take place and the far extreme right will take over if Germany doesn't crack down.

-6 ( +12 / -18 )

bass, merkel seems so idiotic , naieve and totally lacking in common sense regarding the refugee debacle that now Im forced to wonder if indeed she actually is trying to engineer a far right victory in german elections. It sounds crazy, but can she actually be as stupid as she seems?

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

This is just the beginning,

I agree. Nothing of any use will change though. Mass, unfettered immmigration from Muslim countries will continue. In the next couple of days or so we can no doubt expect a wave of silly #PrayForBerlin Twitter traffic (if it hasn't already begun), then it will be back to business as usual. Of course, I am terribly racist for saying this....

1 ( +8 / -7 )

It makes you wonder when the german people will wake up from their decades of leftist mental conditioning and realize what is going on. It will happen, its just a question of when.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Look at all the yew-hawdists and Trumpers jump to conclusions, just like their leader in chief, Trumpy-stumpy McTwitter fingers.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Terrible for the German nation. Just getting ready for the holidays, all those wonderful Christmas markets all over the nation will be looking over their shoulder now. What did the Germans do? Nothing, but their government has supported Obama's wars, proxy wars and economic wars and then for some idiotic reason, decided to open the flood gates for the refugees. The crime, gangs, sexual attacks, rapes... What's going to happen this New Years celebration? There's gonna be a "payback" soon IMO.

Suspects arrested last weekend in France under anti-terrorism measures had been planning to launch attacks on Dec. 1 at important and landmark sites in and around Paris, according to a source close to the inquiry.

Thanks a lot Bush, Mr. and Mrs. Clinton, Obama, the EU, and of course Israel. Your citizens are not going to take much more of your hegemonic games.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

there have been persistent warnings that Christmas gatherings like this might be targeted. and alert levels have been high all over Europe. Insoluble clash of cultures and ideologies. who would want to live in Europe at the moment?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Animals.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

According to a German newspaper, the driver has been identified as a Pakistani asylum seeker who arrived in February 2016.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Fred, pretty much as expected.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Look at all the yew-hawdists and Trumpers jump to conclusions, just like their leader in chief, Trumpy-stumpy McTwitter fingers.

I think the only people jumping to conclusions are the people that are paranoid and are still bitter and dismayed about the shellacking the Democrats received 6 weeks ago.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

'Paranoid'? Like that orange menace with an itchy Twitter finger. Hope you anonymous hero-warriors leave your basements and fight in the war he's likel to start.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

It certainly looks like a jihadi terrorist attack but it seems sensible to wait for confirmation.

Sensible people do this and then they give an opinion.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

'Paranoid'? Like that orange menace with an itchy Twitter finger. Hope you anonymous hero-warriors leave your basements and fight in the war he's likel to start.

Maybe you don't realize this, but we are already in a war. Bush left is with one disastrous war and now Obama is about to leave us with another. Whatever happened to Obama's RED LINE ultimatum he issued Assad? Where is Assad now? Oh, he's taken over Aleppo and like his father will probably massacre thousands of innocent people and we have to send more Obama so called advisors to the region, whatever that's supposed to be, most people call them special forces, but this WH likes to play around with euphemisms.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

@bass

The whataboutObamawhomaybeaMuslimLMAO approach is irrelevant here.

Trump is making his usual grandstanding statements even before the facts are clear.

This isn't sensible. It's stupid and dangerous.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

jimizo, you mean as opposed to obama who never calls it islamic terrorism?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

"jimizo, you mean as opposed to obama who never calls it islamic terrorism?"

No, I mean calling it Islamic terrorism when it's been confirmed as Islamic terrorism. I agree that Obama dancing around this issue has been bizarre and infuriated many who ended up voting for trash like Trump.

The point is the president-elect of the US has to be very careful about getting the facts right before spouting off. He's probably right but it just isn't sensible to do this.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

The whataboutObamawhomaybeaMuslimLMAO approach is irrelevant here.

Why? He is 110% when it comes to illegal immigration and the refugee fallout. If Merkel would take the same approach Trump wants to take, Germany wouldn't be in this position and the country has to worry about the radicals trying to Islamize the country.

Trump is making his usual grandstanding statements even before the facts are clear.

Liberals and Dems are the last one to criticize Trump on that point!

This isn't sensible. It's stupid and dangerous.

What Merkel is doing is stupid, dangerous and reckless!

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

@bass

This is a simple question. Do you think it's a good idea for the president-elect to comment on an incident of this nature before the facts are clear?

That's all I'm asking.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

You know what? I find trumps tweet refreshing after 8 years of dithering political correctness from Obama who refuses to call islamic terrorism by its real name and supported the mass migration of Muslims into Europe. Shame on Obama, shame on Merkel, and shame on the dreamers who are about to wear "we are Berlin" sanctimony on their sleeves.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@Outrider

Fair enough. I found the left's refusal to call Islamic terrorism out for what it is extremely infuriating and I also think many European countries need far more sensible immigration policies. These mistakes are part of the reason why the far right is on the rise and the left had better wise up to this sharpish.

By the way, do you think commenting on incidents before the facts are clear is a good trait in a president-elect? The refusal of the Trump supporters here to answer that is disturbing.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This is a simple question. Do you think it's a good idea for the president-elect to comment on an incident of this nature before the facts are clear?

As a president elect, I do think so

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

outrider, I have no issue with DT twitting about the news and I agree it is somehow 'refreshing'. Problem is he often gets his timing wrong and 'anticipates' the news themselves i.e he creates/fabricates the news and that's an issue.

This probably is Islamist terrorism and I like the fact Trump will call it like it is. But the day he gets his assessment wrong he will all make us look like fools and anger Muslims who have nothing to do with extremism and the attack itself. That's not what we want. I blame euro politicians for the situation we are in but we cant just assume all terror attacks are Islam related just cause we want to look 'tough' and 'on the job' seconds after an attack. Lets not forget your country and mine are very capable of producing nutjobs too so lets not pretend we are immune to terrorism just because we are westerners.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Germany needs a leader like Trump! It is time to say goodbye to Angels, she deserves to work in a nursery but be careful, there were Islamic extremists just born as well!

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

"This is a simple question. Do you think it's a good idea for the president-elect to comment on an incident of this nature before the facts are clear?"

"As a president elect, I do think so"

Ah, facts. I'm old enough to remember when they were important.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

As a person , who has German friends, as a person with friends living in Berlin, as someone who has visited this wonderful city, there's one thing I want to say to Mr. Carnel, bass , Jimizo etc: you are unbelievable!!

What kind of arrogance and egoism, what supremacist attitude would make you fight over American politics after reading an article about innocent people killed by some nut in one of the happiest times of the year,European people who probably didn't care much about your politicians, who enjoyed shopping presents or happy personal chats over a mug with warm wine? Their lives crushed down in a moment, like the mighty, beautiful Christmas tree. Can you please, just show your respect to the victims and talk about Trump and Obama and whoever somewhere else!

May the victims Rest In Peace and may all we have peace and pray for the recovery of the injuried. May we all find love in our hearts for Christmas, and at least some sense .

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

This is confirmed to be a Pakistani who came to Germany as a "refugee". Two years ago Germans were receiving them with open arms. This is the response. Wishful thinking has a price. Glad Trump won and will do what is needed.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

This is exactly the kind of attack Europeans were warned about and were preparing for: Christmas activities. Just goes to show, the governments of Germany, Belgium, France and other countries have seriously degraded their ability to protect their own citizens. After all, it was their policies that created such a dangerous situation in the first place.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I have German friends and friends in Germany too Minus one friend who left Germany last year because he saw the writing on the wall with the flood of Muslim refugees. For those upset by the discussion, this is a forum for discussion and debate. No one here is making light of it.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Bass4funk: ""As a president elect, I do think so"

I hope you realize you literally just said you think it's responsible for a person to make comments without facts. Well done! Not surprising at all, but it's good you can admit it.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

"jump to conclusions" .............. Central Europe, Christmas, Nice-style truck attack on random, innocent people........... how you can NOT jump to conclusions???

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It's quite strange how it is so easy to ascertain that a Polish national died but fail to ascertain the nationality of the fleeing perpetrator! How many more Europeans have to die before this cancer is excised????!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

as France, for example, where Charlie Hebdo was tolerated because of freedom of speech laws, and moslems are persecuted because you can't publicly show your religion

I take offense at that ebisen. France has its own rules, freedom of speech and secularism just happen to be some of the country's core values. Muslims like other migrants are welcome as long as they understand this and most of them do. To say Muslims are being 'persecuted' in France is imo pretty ignorant. Most of them actually moved to France cause they felt persecuted back home. No doubt mistakes have been made, persecuting Muslim migrants is imo not one of them.

You make it sound like it's sort of ok to target France cause they have 'failed' and didn't treat their Muslims well enough (!!) but it is completely inacceptable to attack Germany. Nothing justifies terror attacks anywhere period, especially not on Euro soil where countries have been welcoming Muslim migrants for decades (possibly too many hence countries such as france struggled to cope/handled all of them as smoothly as they should have).

France and Germany have also been the only major nations to help/push the Palestinian cause.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

How many more Europeans have to die before this cancer is excised????!

Yes, tax terrorists. That'll do it.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"How many more Europeans have to die before this cancer is excised"

"Yes, tax terrorists. That'll do it"

I think you know what the poster meant to say.

What do you think of the problem of Islamic terrorism in Europe? It has nothing to do with Islam? Hug a jihadi or invite one round for a bit of turkey, roast spuds and pudding? Be on our guard against 'Islamophobic' language or pictures?

You strike me as a bright and decent fella but your posts on this topic seem divorced from reality.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Rest in Peace to the poor, innocent victims of this outrage. I wish I could say this incident was shocking when I woke up to it - sadly it was not.

I have been lucky enough to visit the ruins of the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church. It is a sobering reminder of the consequences of war, and of fanatical, fascist governments who start them - very similar to the A-Bomb dome in Hiroshima.

May my German friends find peace this Christmas, and celebrate it in the face of these awful terrorists. And may all islamists - wherever they may be hiding in the world - be living in fear they will be hunted down without mercy and crushed by the entire civilised world. It is well past the time to rise up against them all.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It's time for all European countries to entirely withdraw from the UN refugee convention and replace it with something more sensible. It doesn't get enough coverage in the media but it's the UN convention that is largely behind this entire mess. It's the convention that forces us to automatically allow in anyone who simply shows up at our border and claims to be persecuted. Austria is already in violation by placing an upper limit on the number of refugees they will accept each year, so why no withdraw entirely? Under a sane system, there is absolutely no reason why a Pakistani should ever have been allowed to enter Germany and have his asylum claim taken seriously.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The German police are now indicating they may have the wrong man. That's what happens when you jump to conclusions.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"The German police are now indicating they may have the wrong man. That's what happens when you jump to conclusions."

Yes. The police are warning people that the culprit could still be out there. They also announced heightened security at a football game and New Year celebrations no doubt.

To cap it off, the horrific massacre of innocents will also lead to the charming, picture-postcard Christmas markets with added security barriers and extra armed police.

Heartbreaking.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

What do you think of the problem of Islamic terrorism in Europe?

It's an obscenity, Jimizo, an existential threat to the democracy that you and I have enjoyed all of our lives, and yet everyone on this thread knows of the White Daesh we so eagerly sell fighter jets and cluster bombs to.

Do we create dystopian police states and pretend that there are no farting elephants in the room?

Or do we say to the House of Saud, the oil companies, the military-industrial complex and their securitocrat and media baron facilitators that the people of this world and our beautiful planet have had more than enough?!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"Or do we say to the House of Saud, the oil companies, the military-industrial complex and their securitocrat and media baron facilitators that the people of this world and our beautiful planet have had more than enough?!"

Yes, we should say that.

Now, let's ask who's listening to the violent, intolerant religious ideas sponsored by Saudi Arabia. Who's listening to this and acting upon it? Secular humanists? Quakers? New age 'spiritual but not religious' types? Let's take our own UK. A third of UK Muslims would like to see sharia implemented in our half-arsed Christian union and over half want homosexuals thrown in jail. Close to 80% of UK Muslims would have liked to have seen the Danish cartoonists prosecuted under the law for blasphemy. Blame all this on the House of Saud if you like, but this is a real problem which needs to be addressed and cries of islamophobia are wearing thin. This isn't exactly a structure of tolerance, peace, love and progressive ideas to be turned 180.

A world free of arms traders, oil barons, idiotic warmongers and rightist media moguls isn't happening in the near future. Let's deal with the here and now. The poison of religious sectarianism isn't going anywhere.

We've lived through the horrors of what religious sectarianism is capable of. We've progressed to a point but now we have a new one to deal with. Your idea seems to be keep it coming while we find a way to deal with the Sauds, oil barons, warmongers and rightist media barons while making excuses for ideas which you'd attack mercilessly is they came from non-Muslims. Feel free to correct my summary of your ideas.

@jackass Do you think it's a good idea to comment on an event without knowing the facts? Bass thinks that's a good thing and I admire his honesty. How about you?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

jimizo, well said.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Forgive my Schadenfreude when I read:

jimizo, well said.

What's your solution to all this?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@sensenotsocommon

The first thing I'd do is create a mindset where you don't automatically thumb down an opinion you don't agree with. Listening to or reading an opinion which clashes with your own is very useful. This is something many Muslims often find problematic in many situations given they believe they have the divine and definitive guide to morality. Other religions believe this idea but at this point in time, Islam does tend to be more active in punishing those who have a different opinion or lifestyle.

Europe will have to work hard to stop jihadi attacks by investing in the size and quality of the security services. It's depressing but the German security services have admitted their inadequacy to deal with the scale of what they are up against. Our security services in the UK have done a pretty good job in thwarting jihadi attacks over the years but one will undoubtedly slip through. Without their work, we'd have seen quite a few repeats of what happened to the London transportation system when many were massacred.

A sensible immigration policy also seems, well, sensible. Hundreds of thousands of people from areas of the world where civilised ideas are not always the norm doesn't strike me as a sensible immigration policy.

Apart from that, I'd like to see people admit that the ideas of a Bronze Age religion which is taken literally by many is a problem in secular, 21st century Europe. Drop the dangerous ideas that religion is above criticism and criticism of these ideas is racist, bigoted and Islamophobic. Honest discussion is a very useful way forward. As Salman Rushdie said of those who make excuses for disgraceful ideas - call it out every effing time. You don't seem to have the capacity to do this.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Is Merkel a Russian plant? What made sense about opening the borders?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Why they did it to innocent peoples who were just shopping for Christmas? Chancellor Angela Merkel must take responsible and resign from the Government. Her open door toward refugee’s policy is irresponsible immigration policy. Now whole EU states are facing with Muslim refugees problem because of Angela Merkel’s open door toward refugees policy. Open door toward Refugees policy does not make Germany safer as Chancellor Angela Merkel claimed and in fact, more vulnerable for German peoples from Muslim terrorist attack on Germany soil. She must honest and confess for her made mistake about opening door to all refugees most of them were Muslim. The culture and religion conflict can be happened between host Christian peoples and refugees in long term instead of safer environment. The refugees should be only temporary protection and they should be sending back when their country security was improved.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"What's your solution to all this?"

There is no solution anymore. "Get used to it." That's the advice of the top security chiefs in UK and France. UK: "It's not a question of if but when." France: "This is the new normal."

Merry Christmas, Europeans. Let's hope that one day you'll find the political will to hold your policymakers - who ignored all the warnings and deliberately created this security nightmare for their citizens - accountable for their actions.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The German police just released the first suspect - they got the wrong man

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Merry Christmas, Europeans.

Many Europeans of my age are probably already used to it. In the 70s we had the Baader-Meinhof Group in Germany and the IRA in the UK. This isn't a "new normal". We had no expectations of politicians then and have just as few now. I think we can cope, but thanks for your concern. Any useful help appreciated.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Looks like the Islamic State has claimed responsibility.

Trump tweeting is not responsible. Someone needs to cancel his account.

On the other hand this is a "terror attack". Why does the article use parenthesis?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"In the 70s we had the Baader-Meinhof Group in Germany and the IRA in the UK."

The scale and threat are completely different. The worst IRA attack, two bombings in one day killed 21 people. The RAF killed a total of 34 over its history. Overwhelmingly they were targetted killings of combatants and officials. Compare that to the Madrid bombing: 191 in a single attack of general members of the public at a train station.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Just The Nice mass murder last year was 86 people killed and 436 injured in one fell swoop. If the IRA and Baader-Meinhoff prepared you at all for the current muslim terrorism that is afflicting the non-muslim world my hat is off to you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The worst IRA attack, two bombings in one day killed 21 people.

Actually, the worst attacks in that particular conflict, perpetrated by elements of Britain's security forces, killed 34 in one day in Dublin and Monaghan.

What's the greater context in all of this dung storm?

Must the narrative really be that there's a hierarchy of victimhood?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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