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Trump and taxes: Back to drawing board, seeks GOP consensus

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By JOSH BOAK and STEPHEN OHLEMACHER

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President Donald Trump has scrapped the tax plan he campaigned on

Another broken promise.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Is this yet another promise that Trump will have to break with his voters? The reality of cutting taxes, staying within WTO regulations, lowering the deficit, preserving Social Security, and making the lunatic Freedom Caucus happy, is completely impossible... (Ask John Boehner)

All of Trump's campaign rhetoric, decades of Republican rhetoric, and the complete failure of "Trickle-Down" by Reagan, and both Bush's, has PROVEN the Republicans have no magic cure for what ails the America's Middle-Class...

The GOP has been the most detrimental party to the American Worker in national history, yet they are able to convince droves of gullible people over, and over again. that their "Lower taxes on the rich, and corporations" will create jobs, and spread prosperity...

Trump voters... you have been DUPED.... again!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Another broken promise.

Wow, it's almost as if the President controls the executive branch and not the legislative branch. Hence why even debating candidate proposals on taxes is completely absurd. The only campaign promises worth paying attention to are for those actually under the control of the President, like appointments and executive orders.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I am not a Trump supporter but I do not see this as necessarily a "broken promise". What I do see is the fact that this is indicative of how ignorant Trump was about what he was getting himself into.

I believe he truly thought he could step into office and run the country as if it is one of his businesses. Unfortunately for Trump (and fortunately for the U.S.) checks and balances are built into the system to prevent President Trump from running rampant.

The U.S. does really need tax reform/simplication. My U.S. personal tax return is like a small book while my Japanese personal tax return is a couple of pages. Unfortunately the guy that said he would do this is not really competent to be the U.S. President.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Is this yet another promise that Trump will have to break with his voters? The reality of cutting taxes, staying within WTO regulations, lowering the deficit, preserving Social Security, and making the lunatic Freedom Caucus happy, is completely impossible... (Ask John Boehner)

Where is Boehner these days?

All of Trump's campaign rhetoric, decades of Republican rhetoric, and the complete failure of "Trickle-Down" by Reagan, and both Bush's, has PROVEN the Republicans have no magic cure for what ails the America's Middle-Class...

But the Democrats robbing Paul to give to Peter will create restorative justice?

The GOP has been the most detrimental party to the American Worker in national history,

No, the Democratic party has. How's Detroit? How's Philly? How's Boston? California is ONLY doing fairly well because of Silicon valley and Hollywood, were it not for them, California would be another crime ridden broke state. LBJ's great society has put millions of people, especially Blacks into a state of perpetual government financial dependency.

yet they are able to convince droves of gullible people over, and over again. that their "Lower taxes on the rich, and corporations" will create jobs, and spread prosperity...

I have never seen a poor person as a job creator or entrepreneur? Demonizing the rich makes libs look extremely childish.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

I have never seen a poor person as a job creator or entrepreneur? Demonizing the rich makes libs look extremely childish.

No, silly strawman arguments make folks look extremely childish. No one is saying being rich is bad, but the idea that cutting taxes for the top one percent will somehow provide jobs for the 99% is absurd. We've tried it- it didn't work. If you want a strong economy, you empower the middle class, not the already rich. And certainly not at the expense of the other 99%.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Some view the search for new options as a result of Trump’s refusal to set clear parameters for his plan and his exceedingly challenging endgame: reducing tax rates enough to spur faster growth without blowing up the budget deficit.

Ah, yes. Cutting taxes to spur growth, something near and dear to Republican hearts despite massive amounts of real-world evidence to the contrary. Just Google "Kansas budget" to see how things turn out when the GOP chooses ideology over facts. And if anyone would like to a have a separate conversation about blue states like California, no problem, we can have two separate discussions at the same time.

Also, I'm guessing even a majority of Republicans would like to see Trump's tax returns, especially since he is helping to create tax policy. I don't think the people should accept an "honor system" for our leaders, not with the amount of money we are dealing with these days.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The right has been after payroll taxes for years for this reason: Linking payroll taxes to entitlements gives the taxpayer a feeling of stake and thus a stronger desire for their continuance. De-linking them might well be the first step in eliminating entitlements altogether. That's always been the GOP's Holy Grail, after all; they just approach it from devious angles.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The only campaign promises worth paying attention to are for those actually under the control of the President, like appointments and executive orders.

Remember that time, you know, when the right went absolutely ballistic and freaked out about Obama issuing an executive order? Remember? They called him a dictator, and said it was treason?

I assume you don't. The right seems to have conveniently wiped their minds of that the second the president had an (R) after their name.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

its not really a broken promise as he still has time to fulfill it. to me, reduced income tax and a form of VAT make the most sense but since when did the government ever have common sense...

what he really has to do is drain the swamp which is virtually impossible cause what politician would vote to cut his own throat.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

his exceedingly challenging endgame: reducing tax rates enough to spur faster growth without blowing up the budget deficit.

If you boost growth through tax cuts, you'll get more tax revenues than you might expect if just calculating the lower revenues due to the lower tax rates.

If you still have a bigger budget deficit, you prioritize your spending to reduce/eliminate it.

Common sense, but also I heard that Trump said he won't be touching the so-called 'entitlements' in the US. So unless he really boosts economic growth the deficit isn't going to get any smaller (assuming he keeps his promise regarding 'entitlements').

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, silly strawman arguments make folks look extremely childish. No one is saying being rich is bad, but the idea that cutting taxes for the top one percent will somehow provide jobs for the 99% is absurd.

The Republicans aren't claiming that, but over taxing corporations and small business the way it has been for the past 8 years, no one would ever want t do business in the US another reason why so many businesses left the country and why small businesses are on the endangered species list.

We've tried it- it didn't work.

Aggressive taxation didn't work at all, another reason why Trump won.

If you want a strong economy, you empower the middle class, not the already rich. And certainly not at the expense of the other 99%.

That's what the president and his work czars are trying to do. Relax, it's been 3 months, jobs don't shoot out like a kid popping a zit. Let's see how the economy will fair next year.

Ah, yes. Cutting taxes to spur growth, something near and dear to Republican hearts despite massive amounts of real-world evidence to the contrary. Just Google "Kansas budget" to see how things turn out when the GOP chooses ideology over facts.

Now quite.

That's Kansas. How about Texas...

https://www.dallasfed.org/en/research/update/reg/2016/1608.aspx

http://247wallst.com/economy/2017/02/27/the-texas-economy-keeps-recovering-and-looks-better-for-2017/

Texas was recently featured as the seventh best state for businesses by 24/7 Wall St. That number may be lower than in prior years, but it is still a solid reading. The one-year real gross domestic product (GDP) change of 4.8% was the second highest in the nation. The average salary of $53,769 was the 12th highest in America, but the percentage of adults with a bachelor’s degree reading of 28.4% was the 23rd lowest. Texas was also listed as being the second highest among patent gains with some 9,934 patents issued. That special report said:

And if anyone would like to a have a separate conversation about blue states like California, no problem, we can have two separate discussions at the same time.

Interesting, if you take Silicon Valley and the Hollywood elite out of California, the state would be a liberal 3rd world state.

https://www.thebalance.com/california-state-taxes-amongst-the-highest-in-the-nation-3193244

California state taxes are among the worst in the country, according to the Tax Foundation, a non-partisan, non-profit research group in Washington D.C. The state has the highest state-level sales tax rate in the nation at 7.5 percent, although this is slated to drop to 7.3 percent at the end of 2016. Combined with local sales taxes, the rate can reach as high as 10 percent in some California cities.

That's one of the reasons why I left. The out of control tax rates were killing me and there was no one I was going to be stupid to give that much in taxes for the amount of hard work I put in everyday. I'm not in the business for making money for the government, I would like to keep more of what I make, in California, that's not possible.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The Republicans aren't claiming that, but over taxing corporations and small business the way it has been for the past 8 years, no one would ever want t do business in the US another reason why so many businesses left the country and why small businesses are on the endangered species list.

No, that is exactly what Republicans are claiming when they make out of touch comments like, "Have poor people ever created jobs?"https://twitter.com/tomilahren/status/780575759547047937 If Tomi Lahren isn't a conservative/Republcan not sure what the hell you'd call her.

But, I'm curious about your "8 year claims." Why 8 years? Would have nothing to do with Obama, would it? Congress controls the purse strings, not the president. And the DNC only controlled congress for half the 8 years. What were Republicans in congress doing?

There are a number of reasons for shifts in labor and employment, but to say "its no wonder so many businesses left the country" is just fiction. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Aggressive taxation didn't work at all, another reason why Trump won.

Progressive taxation. And it certainly has. US tax rates were much higher in the past, income inequality was less, and the economy was healthy. Not anymore. The mega rich have been robbing poor folks for too long.

https://www.dallasfed.org/en/research/update/reg/2016/1608.aspx http://247wallst.com/economy/2017/02/27/the-texas-economy-keeps-recovering-and-looks-better-for-2017/ Texas was recently featured as the seventh best state for businesses by 24/7 Wall St. That number may be lower than in prior years, but it is still a solid reading. The one-year real gross domestic product (GDP) change of 4.8% was the second highest in the nation. The average salary of $53,769 was the 12th highest in America, but the percentage of adults with a bachelor’s degree reading of 28.4% was the 23rd lowest. Texas was also listed as being the second highest among patent gains with some 9,934 patents issued. That special report said:

Sweet story, bro. Show me where it talks about taxes. Neither of your links mention anything about tax cuts boosting the economy, but crude oil prices are certainly sited as a boon to the Texas economy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Republicans aren't claiming that, but over taxing corporations and small business the way it has been for the past 8 years

I'm seeing data showing US effective tax rates hitting a high in the 1950s then slowly falling since then to about 16%. Can you tell me where you are getting data that says Obama increased these rates?

no one would ever want t do business in the US

Big corporations are shifting money overseas to get a 0% tax rate. I believe you want it somewhere in the 15% range. Unless you can make 15% less than zero, not much will change. And corporations are sitting on record profits and cash right now. The problem isn't that they don't have the cash, the problem is that they aren't hiring like they used to. I don't see how giving them more cash will help you and me. Do you?

That's Kansas.

Yep, billed as the conservative wonderland where they slashed taxes and promised growth and jobs, two areas it has lagged behind the rest of the US. Now it has a massive budget hole, increased sin taxes to help (on the poor and middle class), and raided their highway fund...which should be good fun to deal with in about 5 years. The conservative experiment there has been rated as a failure by every economic measure and by people on both sides of the party isles.

And ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

California state taxes are among the worst in the country, according to the Tax Foundation, a non-partisan, non-profit research group in Washington D.C. The state has the highest state-level sales tax rate in the nation at 7.5 percent, although this is slated to drop to 7.3 percent at the end of 2016. Combined with local sales taxes, the rate can reach as high as 10 percent in some California cities.

Producing a budget surplus in 2014, 2015, and 2016, a 5% unemployment rate, and growth north of 3%.

Nice articles about Texas "improving." Maybe it will improve enough to catch California in the future. I would hope so since they have lower taxes, but then again you haven't done a very good job of showing how this actually creates jobs.

I suspect you don't spend much time with data, and instead fall into the "Republicans create growth and wealth so their policies are better so that means Texas would be better than California." Mostly I'm hearing you repeat catchphrases by Republican politicians that keep people like yourself voting for tax cuts for the rich which decimating things like education, the environment, and transportation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No, that is exactly what Republicans are claiming when they make out of touch comments like, "Have poor people ever created jobs?"If Tomi Lahren isn't a conservative/Republcan not sure what the hell you'd call her.

She’s 100% correct! How many poor people do you know created jobs in the private sector, built small business and improved lives for millions of Americans?

But, I'm curious about your "8 year claims." Why 8 years? Would have nothing to do with Obama, would it? Congress controls the purse strings, not the president. And the DNC only controlled congress for half the 8 years. What were Republicans in congress doing?

The Democrats led congress before 2010 had every opportunity to lower taxes and to protect small business earners, they didn’t, they kept spending and spending and pouring money into more entitlements creating a gargantuan government dependent apperatus which overtaxed the citizens which led to the formation of the Tea Party and the ouster of the Democratic led House.

There are a number of reasons for shifts in labor and employment, but to say "its no wonder so many businesses left the country" is just fiction.

No, not really.

https://www.taxdefensenetwork.com/blog/obamas-tax-policies-for-small-businesses-are-damaging/

President Obama has again renewed his efforts for corporate tax reform, but small businesses have little to gain from the proposal. In addition, if the proposal to lower the corporate tax rate is accepted, large corporations will gain much while small businesses will be left untouched by the benefits. Lowering the corporate tax rate, which is an important part of tax reform, from the present 35 percent to 28 percent as proposed by Obama will not help small businesses. Only a small number of small businesses make enough profits to reach the current corporate tax rate, so even if the corporate tax rate is reduced to 28 percent, the majority of small-business owners will not be eligible for its benefits.

Progressive taxation. And it certainly has. US tax rates were much higher in the past, income inequality was less, and the economy was healthy. Not anymore. The mega rich have been robbing poor folks for too long.

No, they didn’t do anything, at least not enough to help people in the private sector.

http://www.kennethkuhn.com/investing/failure_of_the_progressive_tax.pdf

The American Federal income tax began its progressive life in 1913 with high incomers paying a top rate of seven percent. Targeting a tax towards the minority high incomers is popular with the majority of non high incomers as they perceive to enjoy the benefits of what someone else pays for. Few realize that many high incomers have the ability to pass the cost of progressive taxes to the lower income levels via price for goods or services. Thus, the progressive tax is really a method to tax the entire population with few ever figuring that out.

Tea Party claims of burdensome tax on the middle class and liberal claims of loopholes and tax cuts for the rich notwithstanding, to this day the majority of income tax is paid by high incomers. In this era of unimaginable Federal deficits the solution proposed is to again increase taxes on the rich. The public clamors for this and that is the fundamental problem. The failure of the progressive tax is that it has conditioned the population into thinking someone else should pay. America is running out of high incomers to pay the tax and it is going to take some crafty methods in proposed tax reform efforts to impose taxes on the broad population without their being aware of it. The irony is that the progressive income tax has become an obstacle to raising tax revenue. Taxes on lower incomers are low and inflexible upwards. It is futile to raise taxes on high incomers with the means to alter their taxable income downwards as a number state governments have discovered in recent years as new soak the rich taxes backfired resulting in lower tax collections.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

the majority of income tax is paid by high incomers

The majority of the income and income gains are also going to high incomers. How does that factor in?

And with automation, something the GOP is out in left field on, it will only get worse. Robots are going to wipe out a pretty big chunk of our tax base and will make the rich see money we've never seen before.

Wait, no, sorry, they will create jobs because the rich create jobs and that's just the way it is and I don't need to hear and fancy schmansy liberal economics lessons.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Robots are going to wipe out a pretty big chunk of our tax base and will make the rich see money we've never seen before.

That's a bad thing? I think it's a great opportunity for kids to develop skills in computer science and computer technology.

Wait, no, sorry, they will create jobs because the rich create jobs and that's just the way it is and I don't need to hear and fancy schmansy liberal economics lessons.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Kudos!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

By 2050 robots and AI will be paying taxes and all people will be given basic living allowances.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Another broken promise."

Heh, Trump has already set a record on keeping his promises.

Trump is on track and keeping his promises

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5ARgKNF-M

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

bass: That's a bad thing?

If you want a government to have tax revenues, then yes, an evaporation of the tax base is a bad thing.

We're also heading towards a situation with McJob's where people aren't paid enough to pay taxes while the rich buy their way out of paying taxes, which means the burden will fall on you and me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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