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Trump defends decision to pardon Arizona's Arpaio; insists Mexico will pay for wall

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By JILL COLVIN

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Asked about his controversial pardon during a joint press conference with the president of Finland on Monday, Trump insisted that "a lot of people" believe he made the right call. He said Arpaio had done a "great job for the people of Arizona" and argued that he'd been treated "unbelievable unfairly" by the Obama administration.

Arpaio willfully broke the law and should face sentencing just like all of the criminals he brought in front of the judge. There were precisely zero extenuating circumstances in his situation. He was told to stop his methods because they violated the civil rights of minorities, and he consciously choose to continue to do so anyway.

He is not above the law.

21 ( +23 / -2 )

SuperLib: he is above the law if you are a friend of DT.

"One way or the other Mexico will pay for the wall," Trump said, arguing that, while the project may initially be funded by United States taxpayers, "ultimately" Mexico will pay.

How?

15 ( +16 / -1 )

"So I stand by my pardon of Sheriff Joe and I think the people of Arizona who really know him best would agree with me."

Unconscionable.

A narrow group of white nationalists that includes Trump approved of the sheriff

Arpaio wasn't reelected and no one in Arizona loved any Sheriff. More Trump lies.

Arpaio violated people's constitutional rights and violated judicial orders, but those are pardonable offenses in Trump's books because he doesn't respect the constitution.

I just hope there is a class action suit filed against Arpaio. Let's see him dodge that bullet. Maybe Trump will lie about paying his legal fees like he lied to pay legal fees for others.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

One way or the other Mexico will pay for the wall," Trump said, arguing that, while the project may initially be funded by United States taxpayers, "ultimately" Mexico will pay.

How?

Forget about it. The guy is just babbling incoherently now.  Lets just hope that the republicans are dropped kicked out in 2018, the democrats come in, and they shed their spineless demeamor they have always had and impeach this clown already!

16 ( +17 / -1 )

"Sheriff Joe is a patriot.

Giving further evidence to Samuel Johnson's quote 'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel'.

Sheriff Joe loves our country.

Except those who might 'look' Latino. But this is consistent with the beliefs of most in Trump's 35% who want to establish a tyranny of the minority.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Arpaio willfully broke the law and should face sentencing just like all of the criminals he brought in front of the judge.

Manning engaged in a treasonous act, handing extremely secretive and sensitive information to foreign adversaries. Oscar Lopez was a domestic terrorist and Scotter Libby was a scapegoat, so what's the lefts problem again? Oh, when will this hypocrisy on the left stop.

There were precisely zero extenuating circumstances in his situation.

There were many, one of them being, the left doesn't get to dictate what is right or wrong in this country just because they don't feel good about it, especially if the man was going his job.

He was told to stop his methods because they violated the civil rights of minorities, and he consciously choose to continue to do so anyway. 

Yes, the left basically wanted him to not profile anyone Hispanic knowing that illegals ill be in the mix with legal citizens. What other way were they supposed to weed out illegals? Wait for them to come forward? Trust everyone that says, I'm legal? Don't ask to see any ID and just trust the words of someone that sad to say comes from Central or Latin America where most of the countries could care less about our sovereign laws or even their own people sending them in very dangerous and deplorable situations. Profiling may be un-PC and not the most ethical thing to do, but that's the only thing you can do for now to try and curb the lawlessness of illegals entering the country.

He is not above the law.

And neither are the left and yet, they try.

-22 ( +4 / -26 )

bass4funkToday  08:32 am JST

Arpaio willfully broke the law and should face sentencing just like all of the criminals he brought in front of the judge.

Manning...

In other words, you can't defend Trump or "Sherrif Joe," as he insists on calling this person as if we're all 5 years old, so you're doing your usual "what about the left" crap.

18 ( +20 / -2 )

Manning...

In other words, you can't defend Trump or "Sherrif Joe," as he insists on calling this person as if we're all 5 years old, so you're doing your usual "what about the left" crap.

Sorry, I think Trump wasn't wrong in his decision and yes, what about the LEFT? You have two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears and TWO PARTIES, so yes, we need to look at the hypocrisy on the left. 

Ying Yang.

-20 ( +3 / -23 )

I really don't think Mexico is going to pay for a wall. And I doubt one will ever be built.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Looks like Texas could use better drainage canals, sea walls, and dikes. I wonder if all that Mexico money wouldn't be better spent there.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

"In the middle of a hurricane, even though it was Friday evening, I assumed the ratings would be far higher than they would be normally," he said.

Even by Trump standards, it's a bit shocking to realize Trump spent the time he could have been doing something for the people of Texas beyond wishing them "good luck" pardoning a lawless bigot, and that the entire reason he did so may have amounted to nothing more than that he thought it would get him more attention. Terminal narcissism.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Katsu78 - What exactly should Trump do in Texas?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The Left prattles on about Mexico paying for the wall but in the end 99% of those who supported Trump over illegal immigrantion don't really care as long as a significant amount of the wall is built. $20 billion is well worth the money.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

What exactly should Trump do in Texas?

Something other than congratulating himself on twitter?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

JalapenoToday  09:32 am JST

Katsu78 - What exactly should Trump do in Texas?

His job. The one he swore an oath to do.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Ying Yang.

Hardly, is that always your justification for glossing over atrocities? Two eyes and a brain, but unwilling to use them.

I didn't agree with the Manning pardon, and I don't agree with this pardon. Manning or any other pardon is not a justification or a balance to something wrong. The pardons I did agree with were Obama's pardons of non-violent drug offenders at the end of his term.

Trump's pardon is a green light to the deranged law enforcement officers out there to disregard constitutional rights.

Arpaio has a long history of abuse of power, and he was not even doing his job of enforcing the law.

If you were a Latin American, then you didn't get any help from the Sheriff's department. Even child abuse and abduction cases for latin children were never investigated. To serve and protect was twisted to mean only white Americans. Citizens should be afraid of law enforcement in their own country.

This pardon clearly shows that Trump is a racist and autocrat who doesn't respect the constitution.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Arpaio certainly did ignore sexual crimes for reasons no one can explain. But he had enough manpower to send a deputy to Hawaii to investigate Obama's birth certificate.

You guys know Arpaio is a staunch birther who still to this day claims Obama's birth certificate is fake, right? He started an investigation....all paid for by Arizona taxpayers.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Pardoning Arpaio before he was sentenced and had served at least a portion of his term is an insult to justice.

Mexico will never in any way pay for any portion of the wall - which will in any case never be built because the adults in the room know that it's stupid and expensive.

Another day in Trumpville.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

@bass

Ying Yang

It's Yin and Yang.

So what you're saying is that you were just as happy to see Chelsea Manning's sentence commuted as you were to see Arpaio pardoned. To feel otherwise would be, in your words, hypocrisy.

"Sheriff Joe is a patriot. Sheriff Joe loves our country. Sheriff Joe protected our borders and Sheriff Joe was very unfairly treated"

There is simply no substance to this statement. It's just dog whistles.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

katsu - Again, what should Trump do in Texas? At this point, if you bring the flotilla of Secret Service and all that is involved in protecting the President of the U.S., do you think that might be a little problematic in an area where rescue workers are busily trying to help people?

"His job. The one he swore an oath to do" - Nice debating with you.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Sentence? Arpaio wasn't expected to do any serious jail time, if at all. Had Trump just waited for the sentencing there's a chance no pardon would be needed. This is all just attention for Trump as he sticks it to his political rivals.

He did thIs as a gift to his base, especially the other birthers. To them it's one titan birther pardoning another. To the rest of us it's Trump slapping legal and natural born Latino-American citizens in the face. Hard.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. Important to remember that. Trump is by definition helping a convicted criminal.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Another day in Trumpville.

And more Trumpton riots to come, I imagine.

Trump is tearing the nation apart with foolish and ill-thought out actions like these.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

A crime is a crime, whether I beat someone or steal a car, it's all a crime.

What about killing someone vs. stealing a car? Should we treat those crimes equally?

Of course some crimes are worse than others. Apparently, a figure of authority enforcing systematic racism ranks pretty low on your scale.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

President Donald Trump on Monday defended his decision to pardon Joe Arpaio, calling the former Arizona sheriff a "patriot" who loves his country

Wow, so the signal sent by the president is... you can beak the law and get pardoned if the purpose is to be a patriot, US is not longer a state of law but a state of clan.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I keep hoping to have at least a week without Trump making headlines for stupid and controversial things since his election. Still hoping.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

People should have guess Trump would pardon a fellow white racist and go against Constitutional law in doing so; it's who he is -- a white racist who doesn't care about the Constitution.

And if Mexico's going to pay for the wall, why is Trump holding the US government hostage and saying he'll shut it down if he doesn't get funding for the wall approved? There's certainly no way Mexico's going to pay anything back -- especially after Trump quits in disgrace before too long.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

JalapenoToday  11:23 am JST

katsu - Again, what should Trump do in Texas? At this point, if you bring the flotilla of Secret Service and all that is involved in protecting the President of the U.S., do you think that might be a little problematic in an area where rescue workers are busily trying to help people?

Maybe your argument against Trump going to Texas would be a little more stinging if I had ever suggested he should go to Texas. But thank you for your rendition of imaginary argument theater, it's always fun to see what other posters here wish I had said.

bass4funkToday  11:36 am JST

A crime is a crime, whether I beat someone or steal a car, it's all a crime.

Yeah, okay Judge Dredd.

Did he imprison them in prison camps accurately comparable to concentration camps?

So you're saying it's ok if illegals break the law, we should just turn a blind eye and hope as Good Samaritans they will come forward about their legal status.

Hey, speaking of imaginary argument theater. But then again I suppose with a Dreddian approach to law it might be hard to imagine an alternative in-between "put prisoners in concentration camps" and "do nothing at all."

7 ( +7 / -0 )

It's outlandish for someone, especially a white guy, to say it's OK to strip civil rights away from law-abiding Latinos since they are bound to catch illegals along with them.

Let's just detain all white guys at Trump rallies rallies since we're bound to catch some white supremacists with warrants. Or should we just let those guys walk around evading justice? Do you love criminals or something?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

katsu - "His job. The one he swore an oath to do." That's for being specific, buddy. I don't know why I needed to guess when your two sentences were so clear.

Here's a tip, my friend - make an argument, be specific. Fair?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Not to worry -- the judicial branch will soon have its SWEET REVENGE. And this time, there will be no pardon.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Not to worry -- the judicial branch will soon have its SWEET REVENGE. And this time, there will be no pardon.

It may be all branches, judicial, executive and legislative and the people that turn on him before it is over.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

SuperLibToday  12:50 pm JST

Let's just detain all white guys at Trump rallies rallies since we're bound to catch some white supremacists with warrants. Or should we just let those guys walk around evading justice? Do you love criminals or something?

But noooo... that's unfair. Why are you so intolerant?

Good thing that even though this site is titled JapanToday, 90% of the ultra-conservatives supporting Arpaio only ever post during US daytime and are therefore unlikely to live in Japan and experience the kind of foreigner profiling they call to be used against brown people. If they ever had to experience it themselves, they'd cry for their safe spaces fast than a Nazi crying for a a tiki torch.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

People should have guess Trump would pardon a fellow white racist and go against Constitutional law in doing so; it's who he is -- a white racist who doesn't care about the Constitution. 

So when Manning and Lopez were pardoned what signal did that send? Anyone is allowed to steal and sell American government secrets and it's ok to allow domestic terrorists to attack and blow up and kill innocent people, I guess the constitution wasn't considered in those controversial pardons as well.

And if Mexico's going to pay for the wall, why is Trump holding the US government hostage and saying he'll shut it down if he doesn't get funding for the wall approved?

Because the GOP and their inability to do anything needs to get a serious push or threat if you will....

There's certainly no way Mexico's going to pay anything back -- especially after Trump quits in disgrace before too long.

I've known Trump for 30 years and as a typical New Yorker, if the left think the man is going to quit, they will be waiting for a very, very, very long time, maybe after the 2nd term, but as of now, not going to happen.

It's outlandish for someone, especially a white guy, to say it's OK to strip civil rights away from law-abiding Latinos since they are bound to catch illegals along with them.

Ok, so how do you suggest we curb illegal aliens that hide among the legal Hispanics that followed the rules and that have verifiable documents?

Let's just detain all white guys at Trump rallies rallies since we're bound to catch some white supremacists with warrants. Or should we just let those guys walk around evading justice? Do you love criminals or something?

What about the Blacks, White and Hispanic and other people of color that attended the rallies? By the way, as bad as these loons are, they are still American, but that probably won't happen since their numbers are two small to even count, but on the other hand the ANTIFA number in the hundreds of thousands worldwide, it's a shame we don't know who many of these people are since many of them wear masks. I wonder why....

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

So it's okay to break the law if you're a patriot? I'm sure there's some people out there who thinks it patriotic to assassinate the president, but for some reason I think Trump would have a different view on them...

7 ( +7 / -0 )

when Manning and Lopez were pardoned what signal did that send?

Neither one was pardoned. Manning served 7 years in prison, and Lopez Rivera served 35. Obama commuted their sentences. Their convictions stand, along with everything else that entails, like never being able to vote again.

Arpaio was pardoned before he was even sentenced. Months ago Trump even checked whether he could stop Arpaio's trial, but was told by Sessions and the Justice Department that presidents can't do that.

I've known Trump for 30 years

Me too. We went to journalism school together.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Ok, so how do you suggest we curb illegal aliens that hide among the legal Hispanics that followed the rules and that have verifiable documents?

Go after employers who hire illegals and put them in prison.

Illegals are mostly in America for jobs. If no employers will hire them, they will not come.

Trump and Arpaio are creating a culture of hate against a large segment of the legal population. They are modern day Nazis.

What people like Trump and Arpaio fear the most is whites losing the majority of the population in America. In another 50 years or so, blacks, latinos and Asians will outnumber whites in America. What backlash will whites see then? Hopefully, America will be evolved from the White supremacists like of Trump and Arpaio.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Neither one was pardoned. Manning served 7 years in prison, and Lopez Rivera served 35. Obama commuted their sentences. Their convictions stand, along with everything else that entails, like never being able to vote again.

President Barack Obama issued Tuesday afternoon what will likely be his final commutations and pardons as commander in chief. The commutations were for 200 people, including Chelsea Manning, the army private and analyst sent to prison for revealing secret U.S. military and government information that effectively gave birth to WikiLeaks, the whistleblowing website.

Ok, so now we got that out of the way.....

Arpaio was pardoned before he was even sentenced. Months ago Trump even checked whether he could stop Arpaio's trial, but was told by Sessions and the Justice Department that presidents can't do that.

Doesn't matter, the president has the constitutional authority to commute or pardon anyone he chooses and because the Left are not happy about it, they are once again running to the Kleenex cabinet. When Obama did the same thing the right reacted the same way, but now that the left are on the opposite side, it's just so wrong because the left say so? ROFL

You guys....

Me too.

I'm sorry. I meant, I have been following him for 30 years, my bad.

Go after employers who hire illegals and put them in prison.

Ok, but what happens if they lie, people are known to do that every now and then. Probably better going to the source.

Illegals are mostly in America for jobs. If no employers will hire them, they will not come.

I'm from California, what you just said was 110% false. That's the problem with these nutty sanctuary cities.

Trump and Arpaio are creating a culture of hate against a large segment of the legal population. They are modern day Nazis.

What about the the threat of the ANTIFA and modern fascists and commies that are doing the same and forcing people to think, act, submit and live as they do or else?

What people like Trump and Arpaio fear the most is whites losing the majority of the population in America. In another 50 years or so, blacks, latinos and Asians will outnumber whites in America.

No, the problem is, a large portion of Americans are tired of the race divide, the PC crap, the identity politics and the suppression of freedom and forcing people to adopt a far leftist progressive ideology. Either you do as we say, bend to our will or suffer the consequences.

What backlash will whites see then? Hopefully, America will be evolved from the White supremacists like of Trump and Arpaio.

I think you might have to wait way longer than that and by the time that ultimately takes hold, none of us on JT will be here.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Ok, but what happens if they lie, people are known to do that every now and then. Probably better going to the source.

To make a point, you are conflating it into something like statutory rape where you are guilty of the act alone and the other person lying doesn't matter. Nearly all criminal laws require intent.

Probably better going to the source.

Unless you are depriving a group of people of their constitutional rights.

What ever happened to libertarianism and don't tread on me? It used to be large part of the GoP until the religious right took them over. Now, the white supremacists and nationalism seem to have taken hold.

a large portion of Americans are tired of the race divide, the PC crap,

Well, there are still a lot of people getting grief on a daily basis by self-righteous white people because of their skin color. Even Native Americans. I imagine they are tired of that too. Especially when it is perpetuated by their President and a sheriff both of whom are supposed to follow the constitution.

All (White) Men are Created Equal. Non-white and non-male, not so equal.

far leftist progressive ideology.

Like not accepting creationism?

I think you might have to wait way longer than that and by the time that ultimately takes hold, none of us on JT will be here.

Yes, it will take a long time for America to evolve from its racist ways. Especially with people out there supporting Trump and Arpaio.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

bass4funk: "So when Manning and Lopez were pardoned what signal did that send?"

They weren't pardoned, and certainly not before even being sentenced! So, oops! There goes your entire argument! :)

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@bass

i suggest you re-read the article you quoted. It clearly states that some people were pardoned and some had sentences commuted. Manning had her sentence commuted.

 commutations were for 200 people, including Chelsea Manning, 

That's a fact, as is Rivera's case.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I'm from California, what you just said was 110% false. That's the problem with these nutty sanctuary cities.

Illegals are not independently wealthy and need a job.

If they are criminals and living by those means, then by all means pick them up like other criminals.

Just don't go pulling over every person with brown skin just because thee is a chance the person may be an illegal. Brown skin is not sufficient probably cause to the commission of a crime. It is probable cause of a race other than white.

DWB, or driving while black is real. It is not a PC lefty conspiracy imposed on the whities.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

To make a point, you are conflating it into something like statutory rape where you are guilty of the act alone and the other person lying doesn't matter. Nearly all criminal laws require intent.

Deflection. A sheriff that violated illegal rights compared to a Whistle blower that probably had a lot of people killed or at least put them in very serious danger and a domestic terrorist that was responsible for over 70 bombings. I don't know which one is the bigger offender.

http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-pardons-2017-full-list-chelsea-manning-oscar-lopez-rivera-others-get-shortened-2476652

What ever happened to libertarianism and don't tread on me? It used to be large part of the GoP until the religious right took them over. Now, the white supremacists and nationalism seem to have taken hold.

I'm sorry, what does that have to do with Arpaio doing his job and making sure illegal aliens don't roam into the country?

Well, there are still a lot of people getting grief on a daily basis by self-righteous white people because of their skin color. Even Native Americans. I imagine they are tired of that too. Especially when it is perpetuated by their President and a sheriff both of whom are supposed to follow the constitution.

I am so seriously sick of the racial card. It's the ONLY thing liberals seem to know or care, but I understand, they can't run on substantive issues, no leadership, lost over 1000 legislative seats, lost a bunch of governor seats. Let's try the race card and see what we can get out of it.

All (White) Men are Created Equal. Non-white and non-male, not so equal.

All men should be created equal and Obama had the chance to do that, but he choose to start this divide and focus on the coastal cities of America and for 8 years neglected every fly over state. I could've foreseen what was going to happen. When you isolate any racial group for a long time, only bad things will happen. It's a shame he didn't take that opportunity, it's a shame that the Neo Nazis have act like idiots and it's a shame that the fascists have to act like a bunch of fools.

The majority of Americans shouldn't care about color, but the media does and it's a shame that they use it as a narrative to excite the people. They are the main reason for this divide which has been going on for months now.

Like not accepting creationism?

So what? It's not your or my choice to pass judgment on anyone that doesn't believe in it. Let people believe what they want to believe in and if they believe in the tooth fairy, it doesn't bother me one bit.

Yes, it will take a long time for America to evolve from its racist ways. Especially with people out there supporting Trump and Arpaio.

Funny, for the last 6 months judging by the way the Dems and the left have been acting, I would say with some certain measure, the racists are the left that are trying to divide this nation and alongside with their opposite anarchists counterparts, they seem to have this down cold.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Funny, for the last 6 months judging by the way the Dems and the left have been acting, I would say with some certain measure, the racists are the left that are trying to divide this nation and alongside with their opposite anarchists counterparts, they seem to have this down cold.

It seems the KKK and the neo-Nazis, people who seem to gravitate towards Trump, aren't the real racists.

Opposite anarchists counterparts

Oh, are they the real racists? What in the name of lunatic fringes does 'opposite anarchists counterparts' mean?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It seems the KKK and the neo-Nazis, people who seem to gravitate towards Trump, aren't the real racists.

I wouldn't know, the minuscule minority of the racist loons that do are so irrelevant. Also, the NN gravatated to McCain and Romney as well. Let's put it to you this way, NN don't follow liberalism philosophy, I pretty much can tell you that.

Oh, are they the real racists?

Yup.

Looks like at least one famous reporter doesn't understand the difference between commutations and pardons.

Anderson Cooper?

And also doesn't understand how to parse an English sentence.

Most of the lberal progressive leftist vocabulary goes as far as racism and then drops off to socialism.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Just imagine who Dodgy Don will pardon (or attempt to pardon) during his final days in office. It's a scary thought and his name will probably be on his own list!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

He likes speaking in the third person so the tweet will probably read, "President Trump hereby pardons Donald J. Trump for everything. What beautiful words and what a beautiful pardon."

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Oh, are they the real racists? 

Yup.

Right. The 'opposite anarchists counterparts' are the real racists.

If we could find out what that means, the problem of racism could be put into a clearer focus.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Right. The 'opposite anarchists counterparts' are the real racists. 

Yes.

If we could find out what that means, the problem of racism could be put into a clearer focus.

Just Google: fascist, anarchists, communists. It's all their for public consumption.

He likes speaking in the third person so the tweet will probably read, "President Trump hereby pardons Donald J. Trump for everything. What beautiful words and what a beautiful pardon."

Yes, that's one of the absolute powers of the president, to give unlimited pardons to any person he chooses. The left aren't going to be happy with some of Trump's pardons and when Obama was president, there were a lot of people on the right who weren't happy with his pardons. And who cares what the public thinks? Is it political? Maybe, but so what. Any president can pardon anyone at any time. 

That means, if Manafort or Flynn get convicted.....hmmmmm...

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

lost over 1000 legislative seats,

as if redistributing had no bearing on anything. A total disregard of the facts.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Being portrayed as a consensus.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So a President who claimed a Mexican-American judge shouldn't be judging white people pardoned a sheriff who broke the law by targeting Latinos.

Seems about par for the course for the GOP. And remember, and if Latinos don't vote for them, it must be because they are hooked on free gvernment handouts, not because of anything the GOP has done.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

as if redistributing had no bearing on anything. A total disregard of the facts.

So that's what we're calling it now? You guys lost the House in 2010, the Senate in 2014, No message, zero policies, 1000 legislative seats, those are facts, sir. Keep trying, I'm sure the Democratic party will one day....maybe find their way. But I ain't holding my breath.

So a President who claimed a Mexican-American judge shouldn't be judging white people pardoned a sheriff who broke the law by targeting Latinos. 

...and doing his job at trying to apprehend illegal aliens! Oh, the criminal. LOL 

Seems about par for the course for the GOP. And remember, and if Latinos don't vote for them, it must be because they are hooked on free gvernment handouts, not because of anything the GOP has done.

No, it's just the Democrats make a sweeter offer to illegals. Come in, vote for us and we will give you every entitlement as opposed to coming in legally, take a number, go through the process which is lengthy and tedious, which would you go with? I know what the libs would say. Don't worry about being self-reliant, we will rob Paul to give to Peter.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

I think viking was talking about how the GOP's redistricting gives them more seats than the popular vote reflects. In Ohio, Democrats got more votes than Republicans in the state's House, but Republicans kept a 60-39 advantage. In Pennsylvania, Democrats won 51% of the popular vote that translated into 28% of the seats. In 2012 in the House (Federal government), Democrats had 1.4 million more votes than Republicans but had 33 fewer seats.

That's probably where a lot of the confusion comes in. The GOP can poll much lower than Democrats and still keep their jobs, and the average Republican sees the number of seats their party has and assumes there is widespread support. That's why Trump fans really can't wrap their heads around the fact that their guy won the White House but they can't say a majority support him or they rejected Obama or that it was the will of the people. That's how elections used to work, but not in this day and age with big data and a GOP horrified about the future demographics.

and doing his job at trying to apprehend illegal aliens!

We can still do that. It's just that the people in Arizona prefer a sheriff who won't break the laws while trying to enforce them, so we voted out Arpario. We have many people to choose from, and in our state, and this might be different in yours, we don't want police officers breaking the law and writing it off as effective policing.

No, it's just the Democrats make a sweeter offer to illegals. Come in, vote for us

Uh, bass, illegals can't vote.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Uh, bass, illegals can't vote.

Nor is there any evidence they have tried to vote in any significant number, save for statements made by the sore loser dingus currently pretending to be a president.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I think viking was talking about how the GOP's redistricting gives them more seats than the popular vote reflects. In Ohio, Democrats got more votes than Republicans in the state's House, but Republicans kept a 60-39 advantage. In Pennsylvania, Democrats won 51% of the popular vote that translated into 28% of the seats. In 2012 in the House (Federal government), Democrats had 1.4 million more votes than Republicans but had 33 fewer seats.

That still doesn't translate to winning elections or even the Dems having a sound message. They don't even have decent leadership. It really would matter too much how the lines would be make a significant impact. If the left can't come up with something decent instead of punishing people for their hard work or their wealth, taxing people into oblivion, rebuild the middle class, they would be actually doing something constructive for a change.

We can still do that. It's just that the people in Arizona prefer a sheriff who won't break the laws while trying to enforce them, so we voted out Arpario. We have many people to choose from, and in our state, and this might be different in yours, we don't want police officers breaking the law and writing it off as effective policing.

Hmmm...I'm not buying it. You can punish the employer, but other than profiling, you will never catch illegals, not going to happen. Arpaio's methods may have been harsh, but effective and I wish all of our leaders along the border states do the same. You either do this aggressively or you don't do it at all.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

That still doesn't translate to winning elections or even the Dems having a sound message. They don't even have decent leadership

Nonsense. Republicans won more seats they received in votes. Democrats received fewer seats in state and legislatures than they should have as a percentage of the votes received. Republicans won because of redistricting. This is precisely why Repugs can't get their garbage agenda through. :D

Arpaio's methods may have been harsh, but effective and I wish all of our leaders.

And illegal, which is why thugs like Arpaio deserve to rot in prison :D Do you think stopping 30% of the population because of the color of their skin reasonable is effective?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Nonsense. Republicans won more seats they received in votes. Democrats received fewer seats in state and legislatures than they should have as a percentage of the votes received. Republicans won because of redistricting. This is precisely why Repugs can't get their garbage agenda through. 

Riiiiight...when Democrats get elected to anything again, if ever, talk to me then. LOL

And illegal, which is why thugs like Arpaio deserve to rot in prison

I hear you, I wanted Manning and Lopez to rot as well, but it looks like we won't get our wishes.

Do you think stopping 30% of the population because of the color of their skin reasonable is effective?

Stop and Frisk worked in NYC. I remember when NYC was a hellhole and stop and frisk was a major help in stoping a lot of crime, it was equally controversial and Gulliani's aggressive style of war on poverty and crime helped to bring the city back to normal and law and order and Bloomberg followed up on a lot of what Gulliani started and then came DeBelasio and his leftist progressive agenda and now under his leadership cops are being shot and murdered at an alarming rate. The place is headed back to what it was back in the 70's

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Riiiiight...when Democrats get elected to anything again,

Irrelevant. The bottom line, and what you can't seem to acknowledge is that Republicans are not popular. If congressional districts were proportional, it'd be the exact opposite.

I hear you, I wanted Manning and Lopez to rot as well, but it looks like we won't get our wishes.\

I don't believe that. You were obviously happy to see Arpaio pardoned, so I'm sure you were happy to see Manning pardoned as well, am I right? Can't have it both ways. :D

 was equally controversial and Gulliani's aggressive style of war on poverty and crime helped to bring the city back to normal and law and order 

And equally illegal :D Crime went down, but not proportionately to the number of stops. Crime rates continue to drop despite the program's discontinuation, but poverty and crime are both higher in NYC than the national average. Obviously didn't work too well.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Irrelevant. The bottom line, and what you can't seem to acknowledge is that Republicans are not popular. If congressional districts were proportional, it'd be the exact opposite.

I'm not so sure about that, especially when it comes to the economy and spending , the Democrats have a terrible habit of spend first ask questions later, always their biggest problem and then the GOP has to come and clean it up, but I will submit to you this, both parties are unpopular, they have a 16% approval rating. Won't be long before the two parties will cease to exist in its current form.

You were obviously happy to see Arpaio pardoned, 

Yes, but for different reasons/

so I'm sure you were happy to see Manning pardoned as well,

I didn't agree with the pardoning of Manning and Lopez.

am I right? Can't have it both ways. :D

What are you talking about?? It depends on what outrages you? I felt Arpaio did what he was supposed to do. The man was charged with a misdemeanor, NOT a felony therefore, it wasn't going to go through a trial, he was convicted and waited for sentencing and he would have served 6 months in jail, now at his advanced age, he could expire anytime, so why would anyone put a man through something like that at 85 years of age? On the other hand, had it been a felony and his case would have gone through the Jury system process, I seriously doubt he would have been convicted and sentenced by a jury, especially in that State. So, I was ok with the pardon and in my worldview, I found what he did justifiable under the law regarding the safety and sovereignty of the nation.

For me, pardoning a person who stole government secretive and sensitive materials and handing it to the enemy is an act of treason. If what Manning did was right, why hide and not admit openly what he wanted to do? If he is this righteous person, then No laws were broken and he should have never served time in prison.

The same goes for Lopez, a true domestic terrorist with 70 bombings under his belt, why would Obama pardon these criminals? Bombing people and putting peoples lives at risk because you are not happy with the government are zero reasons for doing what those two did. Maybe you have a different worldview from mine and that's ok.

And equally illegal :D Crime went down, but not proportionately to the number of stops.

Give me a break! Before Gulliani took over that city, it was a dumb, a giant dangerous 3rd world style dump and he cleaned it, whether the stops were proportional or not. It was out of control under Koch and under Dinkins, the Dems kept it as a giant cesspool and the only people that cleaned it were a Republican mayor and later an independent.

Crime rates continue to drop despite the program's discontinuation, but poverty and crime are both higher in NYC than the national average. Obviously didn't work too well.

That's debatable and since NYC is a major liberal city with some of the largest liberal circulated press, I'm not buying what my eyes sees and what the media is trying to force feed me, it's the same in California, the press makes like 11 million illegal aliens are not a huge problem. Who are these people kidding?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Here we go again -- "what about Obama" -- the usual deflection/counter-attack tactics. Trump was asked what his rationale was, and he could not answer -- instead he pulled out a piece of paper and started on the familiar "what about Obama and Clinton."

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Citizen2012: you can beak the law and get pardoned if the purpose is to be a patriot, US is not longer a state of law but a state of clan.

You just figuring this out now? Obama pardoned Manning for the benefit of his social justice warrior clan. Comey refused to go after Hillary's mishandling of classified material (even after telling the public she did what she was accused of doing) all because she is apparently in his clan of protected people.

It is plain to anyone willing to take their political blinders off for a moment that the rule of law in America has become optional depending upon who is in charge. I suppose it has always been this way to some extent or other. The law is just so blatantly politicized now that people have been forced to choose sides to protect their self interests rather than doing what's right. The more America goes down the path of socialist control the worse it will get.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

bass: That still doesn't translate to winning elections

Rigging the system so you can get 63% of the seats with 48% of the votes? That has nothing to do with winning elections? Alrighty, if you say so. Moving on.

Arpaio's methods may have been harsh

Arpaio's actions were illegal. We aren't debating if they were harsh or not.

and I wish all of our leaders along the border states do the same

Your position is that you want law enforcement to break laws as long as they are going after illegals? You're certainly welcome to have that view, I can't stop you, but you won't find much support for it.

I found what he did justifiable under the law

Breaking the law is justifiable under the law? Oh, boy. You're a mess on this one.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Here we go again -- "what about Obama" -- the usual deflection/counter-attack tactics.

Yes, because the left one to point fingers, but when they get hit with a dosage of their own hypocrisy, they cry foul. Kinda like, you punch me, but I can't punch you back because you don't like it.

Trump was asked what his rationale was, and he could not answer -- instead he pulled out a piece of paper and started on the familiar "what about Obama and Clinton."

He's right, if the media were more honest and be so desperately swooning over the last president with their bias and you have to be a nimrod to think that the press were not fair to Obama, they always liked him, so of course all the coverage of him would be in highest positive light.

Rigging the system so you can get 63% of the seats with 48% of the votes? That has nothing to do with winning elections? Alrighty, if you say so. Moving on.

Don't worry, you guys got the bully pulpit. You guys have almost the entire media in print, online and cable, plus the Democrats and Hollywood and Silicon Valley, so I say, it's fair.

Arpaio's actions were illegal. We aren't debating if they were harsh or not.

They were a misdemeanor nothing more. Even if they were illegal, the only reason why the left hate Arpaio so much, it's not so much about what he did or didn't do, but the fact that he is arresting illegals in the first place, that's the problem here. You are arresting a lot of illegal voters and cuts right into the fabric of the Democrats cash cow, just like how the Dems are so opposed to voter ID. You need an ID for everything else, but for voting, we don't need it. The sad thing about all of this is, the left thinks that everyone else is dumb and therefore, they have to force feed you a narrative on TV that it isn't true and it doesn't matter if you have commonsense, we the media are telling you differently.

Your position is that you want law enforcement to break laws as long as they are going after illegals?

In this case, yes, because you can't trust the employer, you can't trust the media, telling other police departments to not cooperate with ICE, so it's better that the Sheriff take matters into his own hands.

You're certainly welcome to have that view, I can't stop you, but you won't find much support for it.

That's your opinion, some will agree with me and some will agree with you and others could care less.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

In this case, yes,

Fair enough. Thanks for your honesty.

the left hate Arpaio so much, it's not so much about what he did or didn't do, but the fact that he is arresting illegals in the first place, that's the problem here.

The reality on the ground if that he lost his reelection bid by 11 points in a state Trump won. He had approval ratings in the 80s in the past which had fallen to the 30s during the last election. More of the left probably voted against him as a percentage, but it was a bipartisan effort from both sides to get rid of him. Including Republicans.

You are arresting a lot of illegal voters

Illegals can't vote. If you have direct evidence of this happening in Arizona, please post it, as I would like to take a look at it myself.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Illegals can't vote. If you have direct evidence of this happening in Arizona, please post it, as I would like to take a look at it myself.

It is hard to find evidence when no one is looking for it. And if you do look for it you can count on ad hominem claims of racism.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Obama pardoned Manning 

Some posters here keep repeating this falsehood. Manning wasn't pardoned. Her sentence was commuted after seven years.

Big difference from being pardoned before sentencing.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

State and local police have no jurisdiction or authority in immigration laws. Zero. None. Nothing. No power or authority at all.

Immigration is federal law.

That is the issue. He had no right to target anyone about immigration because he had no authority to even ask anyone their immigration status.

What does anyone not understand about that?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

More of the left probably voted against him as a percentage, but it was a bipartisan effort from both sides to get rid of him. Including Republicans.

True, but the GOP establishment never liked Trump, if it were up to them, they would have loved to see Jeb in office. The people are tired of the establishment and that included people of all racial backgrounds, that's why people wanted Trump.

Illegals can't vote.

Shouldn't, but they do.

If you have direct evidence of this happening in Arizona, please post it, as I would like to take a look at it myself.

I've done it so many times, you guys keep denying the facts, so why do it again? Again, if there is no voter fraud, then issuing voter ID's should not be a problem at all.

Some posters here keep repeating this falsehood.

It's not a falsehood, they are ALMOST essentially the same thing. How about this, Obama should have then let Manning finish his sentence in full, he didn't. He basically rewarded him saying, you are free to go.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funkToday  02:21 am JST

Rigging the system so you can get 63% of the seats with 48% of the votes? That has nothing to do with winning elections? Alrighty, if you say so. Moving on.

Don't worry, you guys got the bully pulpit. You guys have almost the entire media in print, online and cable, plus the Democrats and Hollywood and Silicon Valley, so I say, it's fair.

So in any sort of contest, e.g. to win a sports match, get a job or win an election, if the people you're up against have anything you perceive to be an advantage it's okay to cheat.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Because the GOP and their inability to do anything

....including Trump getting Mexico to pay for the wall (He is the GOP). Also....

“One of the things that is happening is you’re purchasing large amounts of our great F-18 aircraft from Boeing and it’s one of the great planes, the great fighter jets,”

Trump

Finland Pres. Niinisto denies that the country is buying new fighter jets from Boeing despite remarks by U.S. Pres. Trump during a news conference yesterday at the White House.

(news source)

Niinisto must have been thinking I can't wait to get away from this clown.

No wall deal and no Boeing deal

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Trump will defend his actions, his non-actions, his lies, his bullying, his non-sequiturs, his twitter addiction...

He does not do apologies. It's not in his nature.

He does not accept criticism - all criticism is lies or disloyalty.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

It is hard to find evidence when no one is looking for it. And if you do look for it you can count on ad hominem claims of racism.

Not true at all. There have been several studies, some even done by Republicans, and they have found voter fraud to not exist to any meaningful extent. And the reason why it's not "zero percent" is, in a vast, vast majority of the cases, simply voter error.

Additionally, in every court case the right has lost on this issue, and the losses are piling up, the courts have consistently said 2 things: 1) The State has not proven voter fraud exists and 2) even if it did, the State hasn't proven that their methods to combat it would be effective. In short: No proof of a problem, and no proof your system is a solution.

Again, if there is no voter fraud, then issuing voter ID's should not be a problem at all.

To you and me, yes. But it's an artificial hurdle to voting that impacts a lot of people that aren't you and me. When you add up the elderly, the disabled, students, working single parents, all of those individuals add up to millions being removed from voter rolls and expected to go to offices to get new IDs just for voting. You get taken off, then it's your responsibility to get put back on. And in every single GOP state initiative, more Democrats are removed than Republicans.

Starting to see the benefit?

In North Carolina they banned student IDs, and if that's all you had then you had to get a voter card. How do you get a voter card? You go to the DMV and get one.....by showing your student ID. It's a completely artificial hurdle put on students. And they just happen to vote left more often than right.

The ID cards are actually the tip of the iceberg. Along with voter ID laws come reduced registration periods (Democrats use the more), the elimination of instant registration (Democrats use this more), ballot collecting (Democrats do this more), voting caravans (Democrats do this more), registration drives (Democrats do this more), election classes in school (younger people skew Democrat), reduced hours at polling places (Democrats vote in person more), the elimination of polling paces (Democrats use this more), and more.

Big data is putting this stuff on steroids. In North Carolina again, they had 8 forms of ID most often used by the people. Four were used more by Republicans (gun permits, etc), and four were used more by Democrats (student IDs, etc). In order to "protect our democracy" they banned the 4 used more often by Democrats. Imagine that.

Not only that, but the logistics of pulling off what you claim are simply insane. They would have to get illegals to the polling stations and give a name that they'd know 1) was on the list and 2) hadn't already voted. How the heck do you do that?

And what's it all for? To catch criminals that are statistically insignificant. You can ignore all of the above and answer one question if you want: Voting by mail is exponentially more open to fraud than voting in person. Why hasn't the GOP touched that? (hint: Republicans vote by mail more than Democrats).

7 ( +7 / -0 )

So in any sort of contest, e.g. to win a sports match, get a job or win an election, if the people you're up against have anything you perceive to be an advantage it's okay to cheat.

If you don't like cheating, never become a wise guy, never become a lawyer and never become a politician.

Trump will defend his actions, his non-actions, his lies, his bullying, his non-sequiturs, his twitter addiction...

whatever it takes to fight a corrupt media.

He does not do apologies. It's not in his nature. 

This is very true and I don't think he should, that's one of his strongest traits.

He does not accept criticism - all criticism is lies or disloyalty.

Neither did the last president.

@super

Please stop making excuses. You need acces to goods and medical care, credit cards, loans, you need an ID and voting should be under that umbrella as well. Voter ID is the best way for the system, the security of the country, to cut down on fraud, cheating, it's better for everyone.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

"Mexico will pay for the wall."

Why anybody takes that idea seriously is beyond me. When has any country paid for infrastructure in another country, unless it is development aid? Does the U.S. need development aid from Mexico?

Why anybody elects a presidential candidate promising this is also beyond me.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It's not a falsehood, they are ALMOST essentially the same thing. 

Yeah, sure. Spending seven years in prison is ALMOST essentially the same thing as spending no time in prison.

Bottom line. Fox, Trump, and flock keep repeating this and other falsehoods because they have such weak moral ground on which to defend Arpaio and the president. Boils down to "whattabout Dems, libs, illegals and we got the power so get over it".

Weak argumentation.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

whatever it takes to fight a corrupt media.

This "corrupt" media points out all of Trump's falsehoods like the recent one about the non existent "Boeing deal" with Finland.

I just checked FOX NEWS website and searched for Trump's fake Boeing deal and it's not there. Proof that FOX news is fake news. Real news reports that falsehood of Trump (among many others)

Even if the wall built it will be penetrated by shovels.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Bottom line. Fox, Trump, and flock keep repeating this and other falsehoods because they have such weak moral ground on which to defend Arpaio and the president.

Yeah, sure. LOL! Anyway, it's over, he's not going, I'm happy and that's that. Yippie!

Boils down to "whattabout Dems, libs, illegals and we got the power so get over it".

Yup!

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Don't pay for the wall unless there's concrete plan how Mexico will pay ya back - and put it in writing

Ya don't want to be the one left with the check

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yeah, sure. LOL! Anyway, it's over, he's not going, I'm happy and that's that. Yippie!

Touché!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And meantime, China, Russia, Nth Korea and others are rolling on the floor laughing, waiting for it all to implode if Trump stays. America doesn't need enemies anymore.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Mexico is less likely to pay for the 'wall' than Trump to pay the contractors he put out of business after working on his 'casino projects'.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

bass4funk: Please stop making excuses.

I made no excuses. I demonstrated that the voter ID laws go well beyond providing IDs. I'd be happy to discuss anything specific that you didn't like but there's not much I can do with, "Yeah, whatever man."

3 ( +3 / -0 )

There is no doubt in my mind that pardoning Arpaio and building the wall will make America great again!

The logic is irrefutable.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I really don't think Mexico is going to pay for a wall. And I doubt one will ever be built. yep how can Trump force them to pay, the wall will be a fence in most places.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

That prison camp Arpaio had in the desert was great. I am a big fan of him.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I made no excuses. I demonstrated that the voter ID laws go well beyond providing IDs. I'd be happy to discuss anything specific that you didn't like but there's not much I can do with, "Yeah, whatever man."

Sure and I'll counter argue the points as to why it makes more than sense to have them.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

So let's hear it, then. Tell me these laws, which will remove millions from voter rolls, is the best choice to catch a statistically irrelevant number of fraudsters.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I always let liberals go first. Go ahead, give me a lame excuse as to why it's a bad idea.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The judiciary is independent of reality, independent of the law, independent of common sense and logic. Not independent of lawyers- often following the dance of the richest lawyers or the prosecutors. Arpaio

is in Arizona- which is more likely illegal immigrants to be Hispanic or black. The Federal government has been discriminating against Hispanics through the immigration courts for decades and Arpaio is the person has little to do with their courts.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I always let liberals go first. Go ahead, give me a lame excuse as to why it's a bad idea.

I rarely, if ever, meet Republicans who even know about the extra provisions being thrown in along with the IDs because the right-wing media leaves that part out. Then when it comes time to ask why Democrats would oppose the laws they insert their own narrative: It's because they want illegals to vote Democrat. A stupid, silly, illogical, and unworkable plan if I've ever heard one....but it sticks, even without a shred of evidence. Heck, even ask a Republican the logistics of getting illegals to vote and they have no explanation....but they know it's happening and this "knowledge" leads them to support legislation that removes millions of illegal Americans from voter rolls.

Have you thought of any reasons why the GOP has ignored voting by mail, something that is exponentially more open to fraud than in person voting? Try to think of one on the spot if you want. The only thing I ask is that what ever reason you make up, at least make it logical.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Niinisto must have been thinking I can't wait to get away from this clown".

And so, I would wager, is every other world leader who meets him. He is turning American politics into a laughing stock. Of course that's just a continuation of what he, and Fox News, were doing during the election campaign, but now that he's actually elected he should be showing some statesmanlike balance. Unfortunately such is the pervasive influence of the US in the world that he's very hard to ignore. Let's hope that his child-like belief that what he thinks should happen will eventually founders in the realities of international relations.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A stupid, silly, illogical, and unworkable plan if I've ever heard one....but it sticks, even without a shred of evidence.

Ok, so then we actually don't really need to have a drivers license as well when you think about it, in fact, we don't need passports either, what in the heck for? Yeah, it stinks of liberal crap that they have absolutely No excuse for why everyone shouldn't carry a valid ID and if it's racist, then we definitely need to do away with all forms of ID.

Heck, even ask a Republican the logistics of getting illegals to vote and they have no explanation....but they know it's happening and this "knowledge" leads them to support legislation that removes millions of illegal Americans from voter rolls.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx

http://www.ntd.tv/2017/08/30/chicago-had-more-votes-than-voters-in-2016-elections/

The bad thing about liberals is that their fabrication of the facts always comes out.

Have you thought of any reasons why the GOP has ignored voting by mail, something that is exponentially more open to fraud than in person voting?

I'm against that as well.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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