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Trump risks China rift with Taiwan call

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Nice one Trump... As usual you've really thought this one through... 40 years of protocol out the window? Who cares...He's gonna be a trail blazer...that could set the whole world on fire by ripping up and smashing down every post war institution, alliance and agreement that has kept a world war at bay for the last 70 years. Well done pumpkin!

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Hmm. Turns out Trump has some business prospects in mind ind Taoyuan. Lovely town and likely a good investment. I also see no problem with the president-elect mixing his business interests with American foreign policy. Zhongnanhai will no doubt be very understanding.

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/11/18/trump_taiwan_expand.php

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Who knows if this is an unannounced policy shift or just Trump and his team being dumb about how the world works. His supports won't care either way so it's up to us to find out.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Rumor also has it Trump is going to appoint the Dalai Lama to head Homeland Security.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Very good act. Sensible. Correct way to treat an important democratic ally and Standing up to bullying. Rest of world is too outmoded. Need a head start in Asian geopolitics. Japan will like this one.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

'Sensible'? Trump? Yeah, I guess Tic-Tacs are a sensible form of breath freshener.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Viva Mr.President of American,he broke the taboo that: don't talk to Taiwanese gov't.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Viva Mr.President of American,he broke the taboo that: don't talk to Taiwanese gov't.

I've lived on both Taiwan and in the mainland and think that closer ties between Taiwan and the US would be good - for all sides. However, the way Trump has done this is disturbing. He doesn't even have a State Sec nominee yet, and there is no one to explain his motives. Was it simply business, as I noted above? Does he truly intend to recognize Taiwan as a sovereign state? Was it just a mistake? Sheesh - no one knows - and that's the problem. You can go about Twittering away and shooting off your mouth at random as head of Trump Enterprises, but not as head of America. Even in his transition period, it appears he's yet to learn that words have consequences.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Laguna,

I write from Taipei and have previously lived in Beijing, and am in agreement with your post. If Trump is aiming to shift to a more supportive position toward Taiwan as a matter of policy, i'd see that as a good thing; but if he's only accidentally appearing to do so, or if he's just looking to get w hotel built in Taoyuan, that is indeed disturbing.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Well, she called him. Howdy doody. Or as Jerry Lewis would say, "Hello, Lacy!"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

xin xinDEC. 03, 2016 - 03:56PM JST Very good act. Sensible. Correct way to treat an important democratic ally and Standing up to bullying. Rest of world is too outmoded. Need a head start in Asian geopolitics.

Sensible? Maybe, if we had a shred of evidence that Trump had planned through any kind of strategy for dealing with China in a broad strategic sense. Unfortunately we don't have that. Even worse, based on everything we've seen of Trump policy up to this point, he likely hasn't even thought through the conversation he had in that moment, and he certainly hasn't coordinated whatever he talked about with the State Department.

Japan will like this one.

Will it? Leaving aside the fact that Japan isn't a single, unified hive mind, we're talking about the kind of confrontation that could potentially lead to a shooting war right next to China with Japan's SDF grossly unprepared for a large-scale conflict and the US military's pivot to Asia quite incomplete.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"The one-China policy that the US has insisted on applying over the years." Oh..So the US has been insisting and forcing this one-China farce. What a load of crap. Direct and closer ties with Taiwan is a good thing. Keep it up!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I'm glad he accepted the call.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I'm interested to know real USA views on the one-China concept and the general idea of territorial integrity and sovereignty. I mean "real" as opposed to what is said in the interests of diplomacy.

Here in Europe, I think the general viewpoint is that self-determination overrides any national claim to territory. So if a part of one country wants to secede, it is able to do so. That would suggest recognizing Taiwan as an independent state if that reflects the wishes of the people of Taiwan. But I've read conflicting views about the situation in the USA. Occasionally we hear talk of a wish for Texas or California to secede. While these are perhaps not serious ideas, if it happened, what would be the position of the US government or people in general? Would secession be accepted or not?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So Trump broke protocol? In this case, good! Taiwan is not part of China and will never, ever, ever be so in the future. The Taiwanese themselves are very clear about that. It is only natural that Trump as President-elect would receive such a call and maintain good relations with Taiwan, an independent sovereign nation. It is beyond a joke that China is still pushing this renegade province BS. It would be far more effective if China complained to themselves in a mirror. That is how useless, pathetic and desperate they have become. I almost feel sorry for them for their huge lack of perception of what the world thinks. They are only kidding themselves. History teaches us again and again, China is doomed to fail.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The USA has long standing relationships with Taiwan much before relationships with China. = The protocol is with Taiwan and no-one believes Taiwan is going to be part of China.

If China want political headway into Taiwan they must do it themselves with the Taiwan people = So far this has been a failure for China.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@albaleo

I can't speak for all Americans, but I would say most support the idea of self-determination, but that it is not an absolute right, and it has to be done in accordance with the law. Therefore a UDI is impermissible.

Taiwan is a special case because it is a preceding state, with limited control of its territory - if it abandoned its mainland claims and renamed itself, it wouldn't technically be independence. As for American opinion, Taiwan is the remnant of a WWII ally under American protection - we would go to war to protect its de facto independence, but so long as the both claim to be "China" the illusion of one-China is maintained. Obviously, since we don't want that war, the illusion is pushed.

The secession 'movements' in the U.S. may be serious to their supporters, but they're not serious. If any has constant 10% support, I would be surprised. Even if they were serious, they would almost certainly not be accepted, because there would need to be unanimous consent by the other states or a constitutional amendment, which is nearly as difficult. The American Civil War put an end to secessionism as a viable solution to federal-state disagreements.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

After all of Obama's early faux pas that were studiously ignored, suddenly the shoe is on the other foot.

And quite possibly this was a brilliant move on Trump's part. If anyone else did this, China would assume it was calculated and have a fit. With bombastic Trump, they're not sure, but they are unsettled. A great way to humble China a bit without being in their face about it.

Not sure why so many Democrats are so worried about appeasing China.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What happens huge money China loaned every her to rescue almost broke USA? GM and Ford?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Not sure why so many Democrats are so worried about appeasing China.

Ronald Regan was not Democrats! He was very first US President to waltz with China gently with Communist Chinese music. Back then US of A has not owed any dollar to Chinese banker. China was very poor and backward during his term. The reason of Regan courtship with China was strategic interest for counter balancing Soviet expansion in Afghanistan. China was Israel of Asia for US.

US has never fought with Soviet or Russia before and very reluctant to get high noon with it. On the contrary PRC waged the border war with both Soviet and US before. It was a fearless fighter and quite useful for US. Regan was smart enough to contain Soviet without spending fortune and bullets.

If Trump thinks he is another Regan he is day dreaming like Bush Jnr. Unlike Regan, he has no luxury for offending the banker who will pay salaries of his administration.

POTUS can no longer talks cheap like Property developer. Every single word and action will have positive or negative consequence.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Steven C. Schulz

Thanks for the reply, this part in particular:

but so long as the both claim to be "China" the illusion of one-China is maintained. Obviously, since we don't want that war, the illusion is pushed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Albaleo:

The USA fought the original US Civil War about 160 years ago because the Southern states tried to secede over a difference of opinions on policy regarding several things, including slavery. the Northern States (who were still called the United States) would not accept their secession and formation of another country, the Confederate States of America. It was our bloodiest war ever, not least because BOTH sides were from the USA. If some states tried to secede today, seriously that is, I'm not sure what would happen. Another Civil War is possible, however, and some would see it as a good thing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Good, the nonsense "diplomatic protocols" are half the reason the governments of the world can screw people so easily. Perhaps China will have to reconsider it's, aggressive invasion of island territory in the south China sea.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"40 years of protocol out the window?"

Yeah, apparently doing the right thing and accepting a congratulatory phone call from a foreign leader took precedence over protocol.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The US One China policy is that there is only one country called China. It does NOT recognize China's sovereignty over Taiwan.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Hahahaha. Awesome. Reckless and probably uninformed? Perhaps, but awesome all the same. Trump probably has leaders across the globe soiling themselves (or at least suffering from severe indigestion) - the man is utterly unpredictable. Well, lets hope that he's savvy enough to exploit any opportunities that result.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The President Elect of the USA can talk to whoever he wants if he thinks it is in the interest of the country. Beijing does not get to dictate who he talks to.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Taiwan congratulated just like others. Japan trade with both countries,, Trump hotel in Taiwan Havre you used?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The US One China policy is that there is only one country called China. It does NOT recognize China's sovereignty over Taiwan.

It doesn't also recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country, and in fact, recognizes Taiwan to be part of China. The US officially isn't even supposed to recognize the Taiwanese government. Decades ago, US was involved in creating this fragile yet functioning multilateral protocol to keep the status quo. Keeping the status quo meant peace, and the US has always said that if the status quo changes, then they're obligated to defend Taiwan as a reaction. We now live in an era where the USA, under Trump, has unilaterally broken the protocol, and is keen on changing the status quo that the USA swore to defend....in other words, in this case, China isn't the cause of the trouble between the Strait as they were predicted of doing. Both the US and Taiwanese economies are heavily tied with China's. This won't be good for anyone, regardless of Trump's intentions.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Trump was asking, "Do the people in Taiwan ride "scooters?" = Yes, even the politicians ride scooters -it is the best way to get around and park. It is an amateur political question, but the ice has been broken.

Riding a scooter in suit and tie can work but the tie needs to be strapped/hooked or else it will flap in the wind. May want pant leg clips etc.

Taiwan economy is not very dependent on China, and in fact you do not want what is happening to Hong Kong where HK is dependent on China and their economy seems to be falling behind. Some would even say China is trying to destroy the independence and economy of Hong Kong and its' people.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Go Trump, pull all the work out of china and sent it home and to Taiwan, japan, south Korea and the us allies.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Trump risks China rift with Taiwan call

I think the risk-rifting may have begun with China moving in on the Philippines' western islands.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

All parties involved agree that there is only one China. The argument is over whether the legitimate government is a constitutional democracy - the Republic of China, as founded by the national hero, Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, which is currently based in Taipei, or a totalitarian dictatorship (nominally communist, but actually kleptocrat) - the People's Republic of China, founded by a mass-murdering pedophile (Mao ZeDong) and based in Beijing. Obviously the former would be better for everyone but the thieves, but how to get there from the current situation is hard.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All parties involved agree that there is only one China.

That's not my understanding. Isn't the current president's view that Taiwan is effectively an independent country, and she supports that position.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yes, it is her view, but until and unless she changes the constitution (whereupon China says it will invade), it's not the country's view.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's definitely the country's view. Yes, the constitution is still the original ROC constitution from 1911, claiming all of China... but the only reason they haven't already scrapped that is because, as you say, PRC would take it as a declaration of independence and probably invade. But the fact here on the ground is that Taiwan, (a large majority of) her people, her government, consider themselves to be Taiwan and not China, and they no longer have any wish to go back and claim themselves to be the legitimate Chinese government.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Trump trumps China again!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/04/trump-foreign-policy-faces-scrutiny-as-team-defends-taiwan-phone-call

President-elect Donald Trump railed against China on Sunday, only hours after his transition team denied that his call with Taiwan’s president signaled a new US policy toward Pacific power.

“Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete), heavily tax our products going into their country (the US doesn’t tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea?” he tweeted. “I don’t think so!”

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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