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Trump says companies leaving U.S. will face 'consequences'

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"You're all fired"

4 ( +5 / -1 )

“Companies are not going to leave the United States anymore without consequences. Not going to happen,”

Donald obviously has no concept of how capitalism or market economics work.... is he suggesting these companies stay in America, pay higher costs and go out of business? Perhaps he is thinking of some form of federal government assistance to reduce costs... but hang on, aren't the republicans bent on making government smaller and non interference? No wonder so many of the companies he has been involved in have gone belly up... he clearly has no idea...

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Sanders said, “because he has signalled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives.”

might be a great opportunity to once and for all prove that trickle down doesn't work. never has and never will.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

How do we make a range of small companies in the US? We take some big ones and put Trump in charge.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Trump says companies leaving U.S. will face 'consequences'

Bravo Donald! This reactionary, micromanaging, knee jerking will work wonders for foreign investment.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Pence said the deal will keep about 1,100 jobs in “the heart of the heartland.”

It's good to know that for now jobs will stay in place (in a state that voted for Trump and whose governor is the VP-elect), but I'm curious what the state of Indiana traded away to get Carrier to stay. I have to assume other state government services will have to be cut to make up for this move. I hope this isn't another example of corporate welfare at the expense of the everyday taxpayer who continues to get trickled down on as a result.

I also wonder if Trump is going to shift back to the US the manufacturing he has done abroad. Perhaps he has already opened up about where the products his companies sell are manufactured, but if so, I missed that. Now that he's president-elect it would be nice to think he'd fully disclose where all in the world he has businesses. It's known he has tens of millions of dollars invested in Turkey and Saudi Arabia among dozens of other countries, and it will be interesting to see how this might affect his dealings abroad.

The left coast states of Washington, Oregon and California voted for Clinton. 87% of Seattle (Washington state) voters voted for Clinton. Amazon's headquartered in Seattle. Amazon's CEO has not been a Trump loyalist. Will Trump push to help Seattle and other places in the left coast states where millions are employed in high tech industries, even though they didn't vote for him?

Curse or not, we are living in interesting times.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Trump: "If you leave this country, you're going to pay a 35% tax!!!!"

Carrier: "No we're not."

Trump: "No, you're not."

Carrier: "In fact, you're gonna pay us."

Trump: "In fact, I'm gonna pay you!"

Carrier"....$7 million"

Trump: "Like I said, I'm going to pay you $7 million".

Carrier: "Atta boy, you did a great job negotiating!"

Trump: "I'm the worlds greatest negotiator!!!"

20 ( +22 / -2 )

2 problems with him "saving jobs" at Carrier, #1, Carrier made BILLIONS this year, they don't need to move anywhere to cut cost, what they needed to do was take back the bonus's they gave their higher employees (one of which was 1 Billion alone). #2, he saved 1,000 jobs, but what about the other 1500 jobs that are still moving to Mexico? He literally paid Carrier to move 1,500 jobs to Mexico a total of 7 Million Dollars. And another 35% tax cuts on top of the ones they already received and 1.5 billion in Government research money they already received from Mike Pence as Governor.

So all the American companies will be lining up 'to move out of the US' so they can get their payoffs too...man didn't save anything, he paid them off.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

And another 35% tax cuts on top of the ones they already received

_________________________________________________ That is probably closest to the real reason. Now that Trump is a done deal they want a place at the table when new federal tax and regulation cuts are drafted. The corporate welfare incentives are in line with what Pence had already offered and Carrier was planning to move the plant anyway.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

“Companies are not going to leave the United States anymore without consequences. Not going to happen,”

The only consequence I'm seeing is a tax break worth millions of dollars while Carrier still lays off half the workers anyway.

So.....can I get some consequences, too?

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Told you! He's turning the US into a communist state.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Maybe he will start production of his own products in the US now.What a hypocrite this idiot is...

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Actually 7 million dollars over 10 years for a company the size of Carrier is not that much. I would be interested in hearing more details about this.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

It would have cost Indiana over 100 million a year if Carrier had left.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

7 million dollars over 10 years

over 100 million a year

Cue Maxwell Smart 'would you believe...'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA-UPrK_x-k

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Told you! He's turning the US into a communist state.

By trying to keep jobs in the US? Honestly, Smith, didn't see that one coming from you, dang!

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

"Told you! He's turning the US into a communist state."

This might be the most ridiculous statement made on this board in 2016. I know some of you hate Trump and will attack him no matter what but, jeez,,,,to write something like this? If Obama or Clinton had said this you would have held parades in their honour.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

It is now totally obvious to all but the most one-eyed Trump acolytes that Trump will be able to keep "American jobs" away from developing countries only by reproducing the conditions for workers, society and the environment of developing countries right there in the US of A. To make up for the costs they might have saved in exporting jobs he will offer subsidy, trash regulations and nature and have everyone pay for the carnage these companies unleash. Except it will not be him and his ilk that will pay a penny for this collateral damage. The poor will get even worse off. Sorry folks, you have been conned.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Just have to shake my head at how the Hillary supporters ridicule keeping thousands of jobs from moving out of the U.S. to Mexico.

Indiana giving $7 million in tax breaks to keep Carrier jobs ( pssst - CrazyJoe - this is a good thing )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwj0M8L0C8A

-16 ( +0 / -16 )

This strategy only works sometimes and in certain regions. Carrier leaving the State would leave a large problem in its wake. More than 1000 unemployed people and the regional impact from that, which includes no more money spent on food, shopping, dining, entertainment, etc. It also impacts home mortgages, utilities and then tack on the cost of unemployment support and sadly, crime and other bad stuff. This is because Indiana is not a place that can easily be backfilled or absorb the unemployed. So giving a $7MM tax break is cheap, because other taxes will still be collected (state taxes, car registrations, etc., with lower costs for the local government).

In more metropolitan areas such as New York or Los Angeles, the market can absorb such shocks more readily, as the economy is more diverse and there are many other people to offset any losses, including tenants to take over real estate leases, buildings, etc. This explains why (partly anyway) that the City of Torrance did not drop its pants to keep Toyota in California. It wasn't worth it. Those types of jobs should be in lower cost cities like suburban Dallas and Los Angeles will likely quickly backfill with a new tenant and new jobs. It will probably be better than it is now as old economy business leave and new economy businesses take over.

Easy to criticize but very difficult to find a balanced solution depending on what part of the country you are in. At the end of the day, its not about Trump winning or losing or Pence....its about economics.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I love it how the liberal-leftists on this forum and elsewhere are NOW sympathetic to greedy corporations and have become apostles of free-market globalist capitalism. Deliciously ironic!

Who cares about the 99 percent, anyway?

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

@CaroleeThumma,

It doesnt matter what he does youll still complain because he beat your candidate.

@PTownsend,

Most large cities voted for Clinton because they are packed with democrats. Election is over now. Regulations are killing small and medium businesses. They`ll benefit in this area when Trump cuts a chunk of them.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Some of the comments here have me a bit perplexed. I am not a supporter of Trump but I find it a good thing that 1,100 people still have a job. Is this bad?

@Moonraker - You stated, "It is now totally obvious to all but the most one-eyed Trump acolytes that Trump will be able to keep "American jobs" away from developing countries only by reproducing the conditions for workers, society and the environment of developing countries right there in the US of A"

Do you have some factual information to back this up? Have they cut the wages of those 1,100 people? Have they changed something related to regulations imposed on an already existing plant?

7 million dollars over 10 years is not much at all if this is 1,100 manufacturing jobs being saved. Given the fact that these are existing jobs in an existing plant this is nothing but a good thing.

There are plenty of issues with Trump and (in my opinion) his lack of suitability to be the Commander in Chief, but this is not one of them.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@point Most large cities voted for Clinton because they are packed with democrats

Seattle's population is also highly educated.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/fjle45iglg/no-6-most-educated-city-/#70a56c027cc8

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Yes, it's bad to keep jobs. We don't like them so we speak out when it happens.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@smithinjapan: Told you! He's turning the US into a communist state.

Saving 1,000 jobs means America is turning into in a single party state run by a politburo? Step away from the ledge, it's going to be okay.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Do you have some factual information to back this up?

Ha ha, nice one, Tokyo-Engr. Don't you know that now we don't need factual information to back up anything. As the Donald has proven. We just have to say it and then deny ever saying it if it is inconvenient later.

But, yeah, it is obvious where this is going. To compete with developing countries on unskilled or semi-skilled, even many skilled, jobs you will need to introduce their conditions. Trump will not be averse to that because it won't affect him but he can look like he is doing something but the outcome will not be milk and honey. He is already stacking the administration with those who will give business a free hand and be damned everything else. Yet they also have to stick somewhat to his nativist, "America-first" policy. The only solution for them would be cutting costs to business in every other way.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@Crazy Joe - We agree Trump is unfit for office. We disagree on this specific issue.

Actually 7 million dollars over 10 years for 1,100 jobs. That sounds like a very good deal to me. There are 2,080 working hours in a year. Let's say the average pay is $15/hour when you factor in the various types of jobs maintained (from custodial to engineering). We will not account for overtime. We will also apply a factor of 0.5 to be very conservative in the calculation.

Conservatively, this results in annual wages of $17,160,000 per year kept in the area and in the United States. Compare that to $700,000 per year in incentives it sounds like a good deal to me.

Additionally as a group, United Technologies had an effective corporate tax rate of 25.5% in FY 2014. Carrier is part of the UTC division of United Technologies. The UTC division had total revenue of $29,800,000,000 with 118,369 employees or $251,755 per employee. 1,100 * $251,744 results in annual revenue of $276,930,615 for the plant. The operating profit of UTC was $5,400,000,000 or 18%. Multiplying revenue by profit margin by tax rate results in annual taxes of around 12.7 million.

Again, I see Trump as unfit for office but it detracts from his real problems trying to use the fact that Carrier is actually keeping 1,100 jobs in the United States against him.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Trump is against NAFTA and cited the loss of 70000 factories in the US! Strange that we didn't hear that stat from Obama?

He is also anti war and will bring back US soldiers from needless death and being subject to agendas that certainly do not solve US domestic problems

If I were an American I'd be thinking that Donald Trump is VERY fit for office

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

How Toyota and Matsuda managed to have their factories in Mexico for years? Japanese gov't hated Japanese companies create made for foreign countries products because cheap products were named made in Japan. So Japanese corporations used own money and created own divisions in USA. Then USA divisions became too profitable.. So. Instead closing any division, many divisiioooos created own division in other countries and USA. Unemployment? Japan has been complaining it does not have enough workers. Too long women are discriminated that women go to college ant go to work than marrying.shortage of babies, too.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Kurisupisu

Your first point is well taken. NAFTA was/is a bad deal.

I am very much anti-war but I am not convinced Trump is. Some of the things he has said contradict this. Additionally some of the things he is proposing relative to the Patriot Act and surveillance of US citizens, which ramped up under Bush and was expanded under Obama, sound pretty scary.

Finally his temper, outbursts, and the way he handles himself when he is "offended" or challenged (although improved toward the end of the campaign) concern me.

I did not prefer either candidate and still feel Trump is unfit for office. If I am proven wrong then so be it...it would be a good thing for the U.S.

He is unique relative to any other modern US President and it will be very interesting to watch how things progress starting in January.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

There's a massive amount wrong with this deal:

It is essentially anti-capitalistic as it providing state assistance to private companies. What's next, the government taking a stake in the company like with GM or Lloyds?

It is grossly uncompetitive as now this company has an unfair competitive advantage over all other domestic competitors who didn't receive the same deal

It is an incredibly poor precedent, as now every other company in America can ask for a deal

This sort of state subsidy is illegal in places like the EU, so retaliatory or punitive measures will likely follow for foreign export markets

What happens if this company still moves overseas? Would America selectively place tariffs on a single domestic company? How is that legal?
7 ( +7 / -0 )

@dcog

I will play devil's advocate: So you would rather that 1,100 people lose their jobs? What do you suggest they do? You would rather that the wages go to Mexico along with the tax revenue? What if the opposite is true? More companies leave for cheaper wages.

States do this all the time (the State of Oregon offered Intel huge state tax breaks to build and continue to build in Hillsboro). Other countries do this all the time.....Korea actually subsidizes companies by paying their manufacturers to conform to overseas rules, regulations, and standards.

What happens if the company still moves overseas? If this is properly negotiated they pay back the $7,000,000 (which is chump change for United Technologies)......

Actually the fact that the incentive is so low (7 million over 10 years ($700k/year) for a $65billion/year company) makes one think there is some other reason they are doing this. Only time will tell,

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Tokyo-Engr: Losing jobs to competition or deliberately propping up an industry that is uncompetitive? Japan actually does that with its myriad zombie companies, as does China with loads of its SOEs. Is it better for the American state to start propping up uncompetitive companies? Isn't that the complete opposite of everything America stands for?

Actually I read the subsidy part wrong a bit, the Carrier incentives are being provided by the state of Indiana, not the federal government, the same as your example with Oregon, which is legal as I guess they are competing against other US states. So I guess that part is fine, however that will still cause all other companies to ask for similar deals right? And imposing tariffs on US companies would be a federal government policy, not a state one

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I think Sanders criticism is valid. Trump is setting a precedent under which companies that can relocate now have an additional incentive to threaten to do so unless they get bought off at taxpayer expense like Carrier has.

If he is serious about keeping jobs, he`ll need to implement universally applicable policies that encourage companies to invest in the US and hire Americans, rather than engaging in one on one negotiations like this in which (despite the rhetoric) the companies often have the upper hand.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Dcog....The United States has been propping up (and bailing out) industries and companies for years....most recently look what the U.S. did with the solar industry.

Again $700K a year for a $65billion dollar a year company? Something seems fishy to me or there is some other motive for UTI to keep Carrier there.

As for me: I grew up in a blue collar household and went through my dad getting laid off. It sucks! I am happy there are 1,100 people that will not be getting a pink slip. I wonder if anyone here knocking Trump for this has any feeling for those workers and their families.

Also economically it is a good deal for the U.S. and the State of Indiana as opposed to having nothing.

If we want to demonstrate Trump is not fit for the Presidency I do not think this is the issue to do it with.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Another weathervane ...

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-sanders-auto-bailout-20160307-story.html

Bernie Sanders was for the auto industry bailout before he was against it - March 8, 2016

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Seattle's population is also highly educated.

But yet, for some reason, they couldn't calculate that when they were protesting for a wage increase in the service industry, as a result a lot of restaurants had to close because of that.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/02/19/seattles-15-minimum-wage-jobs-down-unemployment-up-this-isnt-working-is-it/&refURL=https://www.google.co.jp/&referrer=https://www.google.co.jp/

All that education and lack of common seems to have eluded these people.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Uh ... this kind of thing happens every day: a state or local government decides the loss caused tax breaks is exceeded by the revenue generated by persuading a company to come or to stay. Look at the NFL, or that ark replica they built in Kentucky with $18 million in tax giveaways. <http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article73971147.html >

The only difference here is that Trump is claiming credit for what the State of Indiana has done. Trump likes to pretend it was his negotiating skills that sealed the deal - 鶴の一声, as they say in Japanese - but he really had nothing to do with it (aside from the implied threat of denying United Technologies Corporation future government business - an empty threat at that). Good job, Donald the rooster - the sun rose because you crowed!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@Laguna - If you are saying a good thing that Carrier is keeping these 1,100 jobs in Indiana and this is a positive deal, which I think it is, however your beef is that Trump is taking credit for something he did not do....then (if this is the case) I would agree with you.

It is obvious this is a good deal.

If what you say is true...then that is a different point completely.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Is he going to ask pharma giants Pfizer, MSD etc to close manufacturing facilities they have in china and bring all their biz back to the us? Get ready for a price hike folks, us and non us based!

Look am not against a bit of protectionism but the world in 2016 is all about moving 'some' services abroad so you can be competitive at home and internationally. 100% home made is fine for niche products, not so much when yiu seel big volumes.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Its a step in the right direction, but it should not be forgotten that it is a step. This is a 1,000 mile journey we are talking about, so to speak. Though the families that are getting to keep their jobs can definitely feel this is a victory, it would be simply false to label this as a victory for Trumps plan. Reminiscent of when Bush Jr. stood in front of that banner after the initial invasion of Iraq and declared Mission Success (or something along those lines, sorry I can`t be bothered to look it up). Hopefully it sends the right message to companies to encourage them to keep jobs in America, and not the wrong message, as Sanders has suggested it might have sent, which is that Trump can be manipulated into making a bad deal based on wanting to save face with keeping jobs in America.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Perhaps he is thinking of some form of federal government assistance to reduce costs..

Yes exactly. Tax cuts and tax-payers' subsidized benefits aka socialism. I wonder why that's still such a dirty word in the US. Oh I forgot, it's only for big corporations, silly me.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Bass4funk: "By trying to keep jobs in the US? Honestly, Smith, didn't see that one coming from you, dang!"

That's because all those trees are always blocking the view of the forest for you. I already said, and now it's happening, Trump is going to start proposing laws and making threats against companies leaving. There's a difference between "trying to get companies to stay" and threatening them; Trump can only do the latter, obviously. We'll see how happy people are when the prices go up and people are laid off. And lest we forget, Trump outsources his own business, the hypocrite.

Mark my words, he'll be making it law soon, just like any good Communist leader.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

It is obvious this is a good deal.

Tokyo-engr - well, as the details are still unknown, whether it is a "good deal" or not is as well. Ask those cities which toss subsidies to NFL teams like candy to kids on Halloween.

Two points: First is that, as I mentioned above, these are state issues, not federal issues. Trump has no business there.

Second, and more importantly, is that retaining companies in the country is not done by threats; it is done by providing long-term incentives. Education, for example - the company can be ensured of a well-trained workforce; infrastructure - the company can be ensured of smooth transportation and power supply; a sound system for employee welfare, including insurance and pensions. Another important point is tax reform - this is a key point that I suspect the GOP will never get around to as their constituencies are on opposite sides of the issue. Most important is stability - companies will invest and only if they understand that a given tax situation is stable at least over the medium term.

Trump's claims do none of this.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Laguna

First point: $7,000,000 over 10 years is really chump change compared to incentives offered to NFL franchises. As a matter of fact the amount is so low that it makes me wonder if there are other motives for Carrier staying. The NYT implied that United Technologies may have had their arm twisted related to defense contracts if they do not do this. Who knows?

Again; I would imagine the 1,100 people who still have a job would have something positive to say about this.....I have heard nothing about these people from the critics of this deal.

Second, I agree retaining companies is incentive. Tax breaks are included in this incentive. I am not sure about the system for employee welfare. The U.S. has social security but a dreadful health care system (I am for a single payer system....modeled similar to Japan's). The power supply reliability in the U.S. is outstanding and our transportation infrastructure needs work. Tax reform is important. The U.S. tax code is the most complex in the world, unfair, and outdated. Lowering the effective corporate tax rate and also reigning in deductions would be a big help. I also am in favor of aligning the capital gains tax rate with the income tax rate. In the end it seems all tax reforms which have been tried by both sides negatively impact those in the middle, especially small business owners.

Again, in the end, I think this is a good deal (unless there are skeletons waiting to come out of the closet relative to this). If that is the case then when they come out would be the time to pass judgement.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@smith. Trump can't make laws only Congress can. Just a small point.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

That's because all those trees are always blocking the view of the forest for you.

I live in the city on the 16th floor, gotta search far for a tree.

I already said, and now it's happening, Trump is going to start proposing laws and making threats against companies leaving.

Good.

There's a difference between "trying to get companies to stay" and threatening them;

But it's ok to leave the people that made the company high and dry in order to hire cheap labor and to increase their own personal wealth? Don't get me wrong, I'm a full on Capitalist, but not at the expense of the working man. If Hillary would have been president, more companies would have left and the woman wouldn't care one iota if these people lost their jobs.

Trump can only do the latter, obviously. We'll see how happy people are when the prices go up and people are laid off. And lest we forget, Trump outsources his own business, the hypocrite.

Prices are already through the roof, but at least people will have jobs to afford them and maybe we can get the 46 million people slowly off the food stamp program.

Mark my words, he'll be making it law soon, just like any good Communist leader.

Uh-huh....LMAO, sure....

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

The only difference here is that Trump is claiming credit for what the State of Indiana has done.

Pence was able to save the 300 R&D jobs as governor/VP elect and Trump the other 800 after the election. As the CEO mentioned in his speech yesterday, the company needed more than the 7 million in tax breaks that Pence had already offered.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/01/trump-pence-and-carrier-live-updates-indianapolis/94689946/

CEO of United Technologies Greg Hayes is welcoming Trump and Pence. He thanked Carrier workers for their "dedication/loyalty."

Hayes said tax reform is a thoughtful approach to regulation, giving confidence for the future of manufacturing. He said United Technologies will invest $16 million in the facility and looks "forward to this facility continuing to deliver industry-leading products."

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

'We are moving to Mexico...to build that Trump Wall!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Obama's legacy: Millions more members of minority communities on food stamps. At least Trump is being proactive.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Obama must be really upset because he couldn't close the Carrier deal to keep jobs from leaving the U.S. faster than President (elect) Trump. . . .

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Sounds all too like the failed protectionist policies of French socialism.

The USA is heading for disaster. But we've known that since November 8th this year.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Madverts

The USA is heading for disaster. But we've known that since November 8th this year.

Don't worry the election results will be overturned and Ma Clinton will lead the world. Happy ever after for snowflakes around the world!

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Again, in the end, I think this is a good deal (unless there are skeletons waiting to come out of the closet relative to this).

Oh - skeletons there most likely are, but we'll learn about them at about the same time we learn of Trump's tax returns. Trump's action was a one-off; his policies will very likely only aggravate the plight of the working class. What is worse is the tone that his administration has taken; not even in office yet, Trump is claiming success for issues he has had no hand in. That is called hubris.

Remember the hubris of GWB, as displayed by one of his aides:

You are in what we call the reality-based community, which is defined as people who believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

In other words, empiricism - once more, the scourge of empiricism has been eradicated from the land! (BTW, how did that work out last time?) Twitter has replaced facts; in the meantime, the plutocrats will likely continue doing what they do.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I still think DT is a fool, and this just goes to prove it. I await his next stupid move.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Consequences like a taxpayer-funded bribe?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

By trying to keep jobs in the US? Honestly, Smith, didn't see that one coming from you, dang!

Yeah! Indiana taxpayers on the hook for the Carrier deal. Trump is a clown who doesn't know what he is doing! He's not going to save any jobs. I would not even hire Trump to be the manager of a candy store.

You believe that under Trump socks will start being made in the USA again. Time to get out the sewing machines.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"I still think DT is a fool, and this just goes to prove it. I await his next stupid move."

Har! If Trump got the U.S. economy roaring and eliminated the national debt, you would probably still say that, lol.

Oh my...

Obama eating crow over Trump Carrier deal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQniHA7zNp8

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

...eliminated the national debt...

And if he grew a propulsion device and protection against interstellar radiation, he could fly all around the solar system! And if he raises defense spending (as he has promised) and cuts taxes (as he has promised) and doesn't axe social security, medicare, and medicaid (as he's kinda hinted - but really, it's Ryan who calls the most important shots) - sure, he could do anything! Some of these Breitbartesque claims are beginning to resemble North Korean propaganda - hole in one on every hole of the course! It is the Power of the Will. (Wasn't there a short film by that name? Google it!)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Obama must be really upset because he couldn't close the Carrier deal to keep jobs from leaving the U.S. faster than President (elect) Trump. . . .

Check:

Donald Trump Celebrates Saved Carrier Jobs While Nearby Company Plans Mexico Move

(new source)

So funny. Can't wait for all the great comedy content in 2017. I can't believe people actually believe this clown. And Trump is going to eliminate the national debt? How? It sounds so easy. Please enlighten us!!!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Trump is still thanking people for his vote-pretty amazing that!

What a great guy for all you haters to hate........,!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Right--they'll get a tax break subsidized by the citizenry at large. And once it expires, they'll move those jobs out of the country anyway. But this is only about the lil' man thinking he looks good, just like everything else in his tiny world.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"I still think DT is a fool, and this just goes to prove it. I await his next stupid move."

Care to share what-proves-what?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yeah! Indiana taxpayers on the hook for the Carrier deal. Trump is a clown who doesn't know what he is doing!

Obama didn't either, but all the presidents had advisors and they didn't follow them always.

He's not going to save any jobs. I would not even hire Trump to be the manager of a candy store.

Thank God you don't have a say in it, just relax and enjoy the next 4 years or 8....

You believe that under Trump socks will start being made in the USA again. Time to get out the sewing machines.

As long as he can bring the corporate tax rate down to 25% and for small businesses about 15% I'll be grinning like that cat in "Alice in Wonderland"

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Actually 7 million dollars over 10 years for a company the size of Carrier is not that much.

@Tokyo-engr

You are correct. What's more, we tax payers will wind up not paying a penny for this:

$7 million over 10 years = $700,000 a year.

$700,000 divided by 1,100 workers = $635 a year per worker.

These workers now work, receive a salary and pay taxes out of their income. This annual $635 will be covered via their taxes.

On the other hand, if we wound up paying them unemployment and/or welfare, we would llose far more to compensate them than $635 each year.

This deal is win-win for the tax payer and to these 1,100 families.

The radical alt left calf roping by President (elect) Trump continues. . . .

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Trump says companies leaving U.S. will face 'consequences'

Japanese companies too? Obama administration sued all the Japanese big companies in US for billions of dollars. They may want to leave.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This annual $635 will be covered via their taxes.

Tex, you're totally correct. A major international corporation has managed to shift tax responsibilities from their own shoulders to those of the working class. Welcome to Trump's America!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

A major international corporation has managed to shift tax responsibilities from their own shoulders to those of the working class. Welcome to Trump's America!

And what did Obama do to help the working class? Oh, he pretty much killed them off....

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

There's a bigger picture in play here, and Trump's deal obscures that, or at least makes it sounds as if a couple of meetings with a great negotiator will stop jobs from leaving.

The economic model we have in 2016 gives incentives for top managers to fire American workers. The company makes more money, the shareholders make more money, and the managers make incredible bonuses. It's why Trump manufactures his stuff overseas. If he can eliminate American workers then he personally stands to make a lot more.

Bandaids to a handful of companies doesn't change anything at all except generate the wrong kind of headlines. We should be talking about how our current business model isn't sustainable for the American worker instead of cheering "only 1000 jobs lost and only $7 million in taxpayer money."

Trump wants to be adored and he wants positive headlines so he will probably keep doing this. We need to be strong make sure the overall narrative about an American economic system that does not support American workers because that's the only way we can get structural change.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

You are correct. What's more, we tax payers will wind up not paying a penny for this

You do understand that Carrier is not the only company that has intentions on moving manufacturing overseas. A thousand jobs? Are you kidding? It's like peeing on an inferno trying to put it out.

And news quote Mr. Texas:

There is literally another factory across town from Carrier waiting for the same kind of attention

Really, how far can this go?

Thank God you don't have a say in it

Yes and you believe he is going to build a wall. Solution? Ladders. You think a wall is going to keep people out and Mexico is going to pay for it. At least I am not that gullible.

And what did Obama do to help the working class?

ObamaCare

Obama didn't either

Yes, he does. He made more millionaires.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

There will be some type of reciprocity of this in the global scale. It's just that, even if we just look at this in a vacuum of America, business owners are being dictated how they operate their business. It doesn't sound so free to me. What if these businesses want to expand outside of America to tap into other markets? Would Trump allow it as long as it's all US-made? Would other countries allow it while their own companies' products and services are being taxed by Trump?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why aren't all you Trump supporters questioning the fact that he has 25 companies in other countries, his clothes are ALL made in other countries...Trump shirts are made in Bangladesh, Trump suits in Mexico, Trump Vodka in the Netherlands, Trump crystal barware in Slovenia and his cufflinks and ties in China. His "Make America Great Again" hats were made in China til people questioned it and they were quickly made in Los Angeles (in a sweat shop).

He says his clothes are made outside US because "they don't make fine brands in US anymore, can't make them here"...betcha these brands were surprised at that statement.

http://www.complex.com/style/2013/07/best-mens-clothing-brands-made-in-usa-right-now/band-of-outsiders

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/made-in-usa-clothes-fashion_n_1524723.html

Remember when one of the papers said that "Trump could shoot someone on the street and his supporters still would follow him"...it's true and it's freakin scary that people don't need fact anymore, they will believe what ever they're told if they think they are going to get rich. But Donald Trump has never done anything for anyone but himself and the US will find that out in the coming years. He doesn't even want to be President, he just wants to go to rallies and be told how great he is...NPD all over the place. Better keep telling him he's great or else you are going to see the biggest temper tantrum ever.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Why aren't all you Trump supporters questioning the fact that he has 25 companies in other countries

Agreed. Trump should lead by example and threaten the Trump Corporation (the company he handed over to a "blind trust" of his children). If they make clothes outside of the US for example, then the Trump Corporation would face "consequences". No wonder he panders to deplorables....it's because they're dumb.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

And what did Obama do to help the working class? Oh, he pretty much killed them off....

Can you explain how, specifically?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Carolee ThummaDEC. 03, 2016 - 12:48AM JST Why aren't all you Trump supporters questioning the fact that he has 25 companies in other countries...

Because that would involve thinking.

The Trump supporter wants remedial answers to complex questions, innit....

Just like Brexit.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What if these businesses want to expand outside of America to tap into other markets?

The there are numerous tax writeoffs and deductions available that would have made that more lucrative. Way more than the 7 million worth. Yes, we gave them financial incentives to leave. So in that light, I see Trump as simply leveling the playing field.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

He is expecting Japan will increase annual payment to let US military in Japan. He is not warred about money to pay Indiana.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If he is serious about keeping jobs, he`ll need to implement universally applicable policies that encourage companies to invest in the US and hire Americans, rather than engaging in one on one negotiations like this in which (despite the rhetoric) the companies often have the upper hand.

I don't like special sweetheart deals either but that incentive had already been rejected under an offer by Gov. Pence. If you watched his announcement at Carrier, Trump actually said the regulations were the biggest problem. He doesn’t need Congress to do anything specific...he has the exec authority to remove them, hence the deal. Tax rates will also be coming down uniformly. If the company is being barred in any way from being awarded a federal contract based on its location the government is looking at a huge lawsuit.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You do understand that Carrier is not the only company that has intentions on moving manufacturing overseas. A thousand jobs? Are you kidding? It's like peeing on an inferno trying to put it out.

I don't think you can save EVERY single job, but you can save hundreds of them if you have a president that will do whatever is in his power to look out for the people first, you can negotiate, but you do whatever you need to help the American people and to create jobs or any opportunity that would better their lives.

Yes and you believe he is going to build a wall. Solution? Ladders. You think a wall is going to keep people out and Mexico is going to pay for it. At least I am not that gullible.

I think that it will be a lot harder, very hard and if it can massively decrease the flow, deter illegals from coming in, impose harsh penalties if they are caught, push Mexico to take a more proactive role, I believe you can decrease the flow, not stop it entirely, everyone knows it, but beefing up the border and doing whatever it takes you can make it annoyingly difficult for them to try.

ObamaCare

We'll be saying goodby to that soon, most of it at least. Kudos!

Yes, he does. He made more millionaires.

Thankful for that, the rest of his legacy....I mean, what he thought was his legacy is going up in smoke.

Can you explain how, specifically?

Unwilling to decrease the corporate tax rate, not wanting to give incentives to big businesses AKA, the job creators, hostile to small business owners, taxing them out of business, lying about Obamacare and keeping your doctor, not focusing on the private job sector, didn't concentrate on bringing down the 46 million on food stamps, canceling coal, the Keystone pipeline, those are the main problems with Obama and his lack of empathy for middle blue collar America.

Remember when one of the papers said that "Trump could shoot someone on the street and his supporters still would follow him"...it's true and it's freakin scary that people don't need fact anymore, they will believe what ever they're told if they think they are going to get rich.

Well, the Dems had more than enough people attacking Trump supporters. It's amazing how the so called party of tolerance is so intolerant of opposing views. Another reason why so many people secretly voted for Trump knowing that voicing their choice would have either resulted in them being ridiculed, isolated, bullied or even subjected to being physically assaulted. No one believes we will all become rich, but we believe that now we can breath and be allowed to do the one thing most Americans want and that is to work, decrease the size of government, keep the government out of our lives, drop the PC nonsense garbage, stop being weak internationally, build up our military and stop apologizing every 5 minutes for just being American. That's what the people want.

But Donald Trump has never done anything for anyone but himself and the US will find that out in the coming years.

And what happens if you are wrong (which is most often the case with Dems and libs) ?

He doesn't even want to be President, he just wants to go to rallies and be told how great he is...NPD all over the place.

How do you know that? Did he tell you he didn't want to be president? He personally mailed you and said so??

Better keep telling him he's great or else you are going to see the biggest temper tantrum ever.

No, the temper tantrum it seems coming from the left and really bad shellacking they received is now taking a toll on liberals and Dems.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

but you can save hundreds of them

Hundreds? That is a joke and it shows he is a joke of a president. Hundreds and there are hundreds of millions of people in the USA.

Trump followers are so naive that they think that Mexico alone is ruining the USA.

And the way...snicker...Trump followers are naive enough to think the wall will work. But ladders do.

Obama does care for the middle class. He wanted the public option and who shot it down?

It's just so funny how Americans living in Japan slam ObamaCare but happily use the universal healthcare here.

Trump saving hundreds of jobs at tax payers' expense and Trump followers think he is a hero. That's so funny.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hundreds? That is a joke and it shows he is a joke of a president. Hundreds and there are hundreds of millions of people in the USA.

How about giving the man a chance first before trying to decapitate him?

Trump followers are so naive that they think that Mexico alone is ruining the USA.

No one thinks that, but we have some of the worst immigration and loose policies of almost any country. The Japanese are the prime example of how Immigration policies should be applied.

And the way...snicker...Trump followers are naive enough to think the wall will work. But ladders do.

Sure, but I've been many times along the border and the Border patrol officials are seriously understaffed and if you combine a wall, sensors above and below ground, cameras with infrared sensors, dogs, National guards, employ more border officials it will greatly impact and make it A LOT more difficult and risky for illegals to come across the border.

Obama does care for the middle class. He wanted the public option and who shot it down?

If that's so, Trump would have NEVER flipped 1/3 of former Obama voters. Hmmm....

It's just so funny how Americans living in Japan slam ObamaCare but happily use the universal healthcare here.

Apples and kiwi argument. Try again...

Trump saving hundreds of jobs at tax payers' expense and Trump followers think he is a hero. That's so funny.

But he's not even president yet and saved 1000 jobs. Obama has been president for 8 years and killed 10 times as many. That's so sad.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Trump has furniture building companies in Turkey, Trump just said China is not China. Taiwan is. This is from old story. He is calling phillipin and Pakistan.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

How about giving the man a chance first before trying to decapitate him?

The corporations are lining up for all those government handouts. Looks like more corporate welfare!

if you combine a wall, sensors above and below ground

Welcome to Jurassic Park. Trump followers have been watching too many SciFi movies. Trump doesn't even talk about sensors. Dogs? Automatic sentry guns? And who is going to pay for that? All 2000 miles. It's so funny and Trump followers believe all this!

But he's not even president yet and saved 1000 jobs.

No, 100s. Watch that finger over the 'zero' key. And again paid for by tax money.

Apples and kiwi argument. Try again...

Medicaid works better for serious childhood diseases than private insurance. It's Apples and Apples that I just proved it. Also, Medicare still exists because it works better for old people.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The corporations are lining up for all those government handouts. Looks like more corporate welfare!

For a short time to get started, rebuild, restructure, lower tax rates, incentives, allow for growth and pay raises and get the people off their couches and back to work, it's a great thing.

Welcome to Jurassic Park. Trump followers have been watching too many SciFi movies. Trump doesn't even talk about sensors.

Trump is not Obama, why should he announce to the world what he's going to do?

Dogs? Automatic sentry guns? And who is going to pay for that? All 2000 miles. It's so funny and Trump followers believe all this!

Hey, if we can pay $1 Trillion for Obamacare and get nothing, then put that money to good use and use it for blocking illegal immigration. Yes, Trump has been talking about this for over 30 years, so I do believe he will, maybe that's why everyone is afraid, good.

No, 100s. Watch that finger over the 'zero' key. And again paid for by tax money.

No, I'll keep the finger on the "zero key" but thanks.

Medicaid works better for serious childhood diseases than private insurance. It's Apples and Apples that I just proved it. Also, Medicare still exists because it works better for old people.

If you think so, it's ok, you have the right to believe that.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

For a short time to get started, rebuild, restructure, lower tax rates, incentives, allow for growth and pay raises and get the people off their couches and back to work, it's a great thing.

Trump believers think that iPhones and socks will be made in the USA.

Trump is not Obama, why should he announce to the world what he's going to do?

Then how do you know about the wall with all its features like sentry guns and guard dogs? Where did you hear about the underground sensors?

If you think so, it's ok, you have the right to believe that.

You want to eliminate Medicaid and Medicare. How to care for old people and sick children? The best thing a person can do if they suddenly get sick in the USA is get the hospital treatment and just not pay for the bill with the current system.

Hey, if we can pay $1 Trillion for Obamacare and get nothing

ObamaCare was a Republican idea so it is working. More people have healthcare and less unpaid medical bills. And Trump likes the mandate so ObamaCare is fine. If govt. healthcare works in other developed countries then it can work in the USA. You like it so much you stay in Japan.

Just like you don't like having guns so much that you stay in Japan (then you trash the Democrats for being gun grabbers). Do you know that Nixon wanted a complete handgun ban? The Republicans are more dangerous to gun ownership than the Democrats.

Who is going to pay for the wall and all its technology like it's sensors and automatic sentry guns? Sounds like a 100B dollar job. Who will pay for that?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Trump believers think that iPhones and socks will be made in the USA.

Apple is thinking about bringing production back at least on some of their products, that's good.

Then how do you know about the wall with all its features like sentry guns and guard dogs? Where did you hear about the underground sensors?

I've worked for NBC that place was like a fortress and other US military facilities and NASA have them, so it's kinda commonsense.

You want to eliminate Medicaid and Medicare.

Not necessarily entirely, but I do want some changes to the system.

ObamaCare was a Republican idea so it is working.

So then Hillary should have easily beat Trump, because it's working as you say, the people would be up in arms for even allowing Trump wanting to touch it and dismantle it. But she's not president is she?

More people have healthcare and less unpaid medical bills. And Trump likes the mandate so ObamaCare is fine. If govt. healthcare works in other developed countries then it can work in the USA. You like it so much you stay in Japan.

I have money and that's not why I stay in Japan. Also, I could care less what happens in other countries, I just care about the US and what happens there. Once it's repealed and replace and the prices come down and it becomes more affordable and people can really look forward to something that won't break their backs and at least keep their doctors.

Who is going to pay for the wall and all its technology like it's sensors and automatic sentry guns? Sounds like a 100B dollar job. Who will pay for that?

Mexico, some by tax payers and some privately.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Apple is thinking about bringing production back at least on some of their products, that's good.

Now this is very funny. The USA will buy American made iPhones (at a very expensive price) while the rest of the developed world can buy iPhones from the usual China factories at the cheaper price. Trump's ideas are really weird. iPhones made in the USA? Really? Do you think that people in Japan, Australia, Europe, etc. will buy American made iPhones too at that same very expensive price. Please go on. This is pure entertainment.

I've worked for NBC that place was like a fortress and other US military facilities and NASA have them, so it's kinda commonsense.

Really? For an entire 2,000 miles? You had a 2,000 mile wall around the NBC center with armed guards and dogs? Please tell us more. This is so interesting. You must have had terrorists attacking your building right and left.

Not necessarily entirely, but I do want some changes to the system.

OK, please enlighten us! How, exactly?! That answer is so vague.

I have money and that's not why I stay in Japan.

But you can't have a gun and you can't protect yourself like you could in the USA. Then why do you stay in Japan? You can't use your money to physically protect yourself if someone attacks you while walking on the street. With all your money you can't get a gun here. And guns are the most important thing to Trump voters.

Mexico is not going to pay. And privately? What does that mean? It all means it's up to the taxpayer. Just like the Carrier deal.

and at least keep their doctors.

You just made the case for a universal system. In Japan you can go to any dr. you want. Same with many other countries.

But she's not president is she?

Again, I will not pay for an exorbitant medical bill in the USA if I go to the hosp. After I leave I'm like see ya baby where the medical billing system is more sane. That's the Donald Trump style. Just don't pay for it and Trump did that a lot during his business history. I'm following Trump's example on how to deal with an expensive cost like a medical emergency. Because American hospitals legally cannot refuse you just because you can't or don't pay.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Now this is very funny. The USA will buy American made iPhones (at a very expensive price) while the rest of the developed world can buy iPhones from the usual China factories at the cheaper price. Trump's ideas are really weird. iPhones made in the USA? Really? Do you think that people in Japan, Australia, Europe, etc. will buy American made iPhones too at that same very expensive price. Please go on. This is pure entertainment.

I think Apple would and could find a way to compromise on the prices. I don't think everything can be made in the US, but a lot of their can.

Really?

Yes, really.

OK, please enlighten us! How, exactly?! That answer is so vague.

I already clarified that point for a few years now, you know my position.

Mexico is not going to pay.

sure, they will.

And privately? What does that mean? It all means it's up to the taxpayer. Just like the Carrier deal.

It means in the long run, more jobs and better opportunities and to get things in order in the long run, but like I said, it won't be a burden the way Obamacare was, which was not only a burden, but a killer!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

bass4funk: I think Apple would and could find a way to compromise on the prices. I don't think everything can be made in the US, but a lot of their can.

For example?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

iPads, iMacs, most of the internal parts

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I think Apple would and could find a way to compromise on the prices.

Yes, if they pay China wages in the USA. There is no Apple factory anywhere anyway. Other companies make them.

I don't think everything can be made in the US, but a lot of their can.

Please be specific. No specifics means it is wrong. Because Apple makes most of their money from iPhones and they will not be made in the USA again. What Apple products are you talking about that can be made in the USA? Many is not an answer.

I already clarified that point for a few years now, you know my position.

No, you didn't. It means you have no idea, which means you just hate Obama because you could not accept that a non-white was in the WH. You also think he was born in Kenya. Now how would you change Medicare and Medicaid.

t means in the long run, more jobs

yes, you want more tax money to create more jobs to build the wall. That is Trump's policy. This is what you mean by privately? Is that a joke? So you believe that Mexico is ruining the US and you hate Mexicans like Trump does?

it won't be a burden the way Obamacare was

Well, as I said medical care in the USA won't be a burden to me since I just won't pay for it in case I suddenly have a medical emergency there. What do you think of that? That's the Trump way. You negotiate not to pay like he did with his suppliers.

sure, they will.

Why would they? They said they won't. They alreay told the US off about that. The US tax payer will be stuck with the tab.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yes, if they pay China wages in the USA. There is no Apple factory anywhere anyway. Other companies make them.

Doesn't mean, they can't make them.

Please be specific. No specifics means it is wrong.

Obama was always specific and very wrong.

Because Apple makes most of their money from iPhones and they will not be made in the USA again. What Apple products are you talking about that can be made in the USA? Many is not an answer.

I already said it.

No, you didn't. It means you have no idea, which means you just hate Obama.

I did and I hated Obama's policies, I could care less about the man, don't know him. You guys need to stop with the race card, it's played out and will as of 1/20/17. Until then, amuse me.

yes, you want more tax money to create more jobs to build the wall. That is Trump's policy. This is what you mean by privately? Is that a joke?

No, it's not.

So you believe that Mexico is ruining the US

To some degree, yes.

Well, as I said medical care in the USA won't be a burden to me since I just won't pay for it in case I suddenly have a medical emergency there.

You can do whatever makes you feel good, it doesn't matter to me.

Why would they? They said they won't. They alreay told the US off about that. The US tax payer will be stuck with the tab.

If you want to believe that, be my guest.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

No, it's not.

So you want US private companies with US workers funded by US taxpayer to build a wall that mexico will pay 0% for. Bright idea Trump followers. Great thinking!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Mexico is not going to pay., sure, they will. so Trumps going to kill Mexico economy by bring the jobs back, then force Mexico to pay for his wall!? LOL your deluded if you think thatll happen. Im sure Mexico will make the US pay for the fight and against the drug cartels by themselves also. Walls wont stop the cartels getting their product into the US, its Mexico soldiers that will, and that wont be free!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Now they would have to put import tax on all goods sold by company's leaving America.

Don't forget that lots of other countries buy cheap items from overseas. Should they also have the same sort of tax? So Sony makes their Tablets in China. Sony shipped these jobs from Japan to China. Should there be a tax when these Tablets come to Japan from China just like a Carrier AC comes into the US from Mexico? Is the USA that special?

Why should the US have that kind of tax but no other country that has their stuff made in other countries for cheap labor? It's weird.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Trump will succeed, for now. However, the damages of protectionism will only surface in 15, 20 years. What Trump is doing is the First-World version of the failed experiences of Chavez and Lula in South America: protect jobs right now to win the election at any cost, let unemployment, tax raises, failures, uncompetitiveness to others in the future.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tax exemptions for the costs involved in moving a manufacturing operation offshore per the status quo is a 'consequence', albeit a net-positive consequence for the company involved... so consequences already exist for companies leaving the US, no?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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