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Trump says transgender people barred from U.S. military

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By Thomas WATKINS

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The irony. I sniveling draft dodger like Trump barring brave Americans for military service.

President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that transgender people may not serve "in any capacity" in the U.S. military, citing the "tremendous medical costs and disruption" their presence would cause.

So will Trump be ending DoD funding for ED pills? Those cost 10x transgender medical costs.

14 ( +20 / -6 )

I really didn't know this was a thing, or that this thing needed to be stopped. Kind of like transgenders attacking children in bathrooms.

I guess Trump has a reason for blasting this over Twitter...?

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I guess Trump has a reason for blasting this over Twitter...?

Anything 'transgender' is a key word that causes Republicans to freak out... diverting attention from Trump's failures.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

I guess Trump has a reason for blasting this over Twitter...?

Basically Trump is a moron swatting at flies with a hammer. Republicans simply didn't want US tax dollars funding gender reassignment surgery, not a full on ban on transgenders in service.

he president’s directive, of course, took the House issue a step beyond paying for gender reassignment surgery and other medical treatment. House Republicans were never debating expelling all transgender troops from the military.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/trump-transgender-military-ban-behind-the-scenes-240990

6 ( +9 / -3 )

So, if Snowden became transgender, would he get a pardon?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Judging by reactions to Trump's banning announcement - on Twitter! Again! - just how intent is he on finding people to hate him?

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Timed to distract from the on-going failure of his promise to replace Obamacare?

18 ( +21 / -3 )

The disgusting, lying turncoat. What happened to his promises to protect LGBT people? Remember when he said this:

--- As your president, I will do everything in my power to protect our LGBT citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology.---

Meanwhile;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40729996

The independent Rand Corporation estimated in 2016 that about 4,000 US active-duty and reserve service members are transgender, although some campaigners put the figure higher than 10,000.

Rand also predicted that the inclusion of transgender people in the military would cause a 0.13% increase in healthcare spending (approximately $8.4m).

A Military Times analysis found that the Department of Defense spends five times that figure just on erectile dysfunction drug Viagara alone.

It's not about the cost. Let's be clear. It's his obsession with rolling back Obama policies. It's pandering to the intolerance of the religious right.

I'm no fan of the military but if patriots wish to join up, regardless of gender, then they should be allowed to without this medieval impediment.

14 ( +20 / -6 )

Takeda:

Yes, indeed. Those transgendered women serving in the army, even after having undergone transitional surgery, will always have more balls than that draft dodger.

Didn't he say prostitutes were his own Vietnam, or something to that effect?

Well, there goes another 'promise'. Who remembers all those tweets and promises from Trump and daughter, promising to support the LGBT community? Most of his poor, white, rural fans will also find out that he doesn't give a hoot about them either (but most will still be in denial - that's their problem).

16 ( +20 / -4 )

ALL men, woman, and bomb sniffing dogs deserve all the appreciation and respect we can give, how much more from their commander and chief! Our president is a draft dodger, our trans service people show a lot more courage and patriotism than he ever has. He owes them an apology.

With Trump in office, the most secure job in the nation has to be writing for Stephen Colbert.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Pence and Bannon were behind this. They know it pleases Trump's base, especially evangelicals, who love to screw over people who are not exactly like them.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Trump pulled this move whilst Mattis is on holiday and without consulting him. The reason is that Trump wants Mattis to resign. Why? Because Mattis recently agreed that Iran was in compliance with the nuclear agreement.

Trump, Pence, Bannon and other extremists want to start bombing Iran, but they cannot do that without an excuse. If Trump can replace Mattis with a biddable Defence Secretary who will state that Iran is violating the agreement they will have that excuse.

It will be interesting to hear what Mattis has to say on the matter. I doubt he will support Trump, who is clearly an unhinged lunatic.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The closest this man came to serving in the military was him shooting down a 'CNN' plane with his orange head superimposed on Tom Cruise's character in an idiotic parody of Top Gun.

Some attacked the evangelicals for supporting the py grabber but he was praised by others for openly affirming his 'belief' in LGBT rights. It turns out he's a py grabber who doesn't affirm LGBT rights.

Who'd have guessed that?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The man's an idiot.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

"After consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military," Trump tweeted.

I don't really have a position on this policy, but it seems that if someone wants to serve and risk their life for their country, they should be allowed to do so. It is a volunteer military.

What I don't believe is that Trump consulted with anyone other than Pence and some alt-right wingers.

"Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you."

A poor justification at best, an absolute lie is more like it. One of Trump's golf outings cost more than the projected costs.

The man's an idiot.

Yes. One of America's biggest idiots, elected to the office of president.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

good decision. thank you

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

good decision. thank you

Why? Anybody else in need of a banning?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

good decision. thank you

Are you going to elaborate on that or just submit the usual irrational hatred of anything LGBT?

Or are you just in favor of reducing the US military and denying people jobs?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

If anyone is willing to go fight for their Country and put their lives on the line who cares what gender they are..Trump sending the Country backwards pretty fast..

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Trump sending the Country backwards pretty fast..

When it comes to travelling back in time, Trump is more adept at it than Doctor Who.

This is a massive betrayal of LGBT folk, both Republican and Democrat voters. Even the Pentagon seemed quite terse in it's response to the announcement.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I don't really have a position on this policy, but it seems that if someone wants to serve and risk their life for their country, they should be allowed to do so. It is a volunteer military.

So the military shouldn't be allowed to ban anyone from serving? Like, say, someone with a serious mental illness (i.e. gender dysphoria)? Someone with a mental illness so severe that they require counseling, drug injunctions, costly medical procedures, and statistically commit suicide at a far higher rate than the general population?

Bare in mind they bar people with something as simple as asthma from serving in some military positions. But apparently this one mental illness deserves special treatment because of political correctness.

-15 ( +5 / -20 )

The Trump administration -- the administration of discrimination. (p.s. - the assertion that Trump consulted with his generals -- turns out to be a lie. Yes, another lie.)

13 ( +14 / -1 )

But apparently this one mental illness deserves special treatment because of political correctness.

Sexuality and gender are not mental illnesses.

I would say oath breaking, lying and betrayal (Trump) are far more worrying signs of actual mental lapses.

As for the costs involved?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/26/trans-health-cost-us-military-budget-pentagon

7 ( +12 / -5 )

But apparently this one mental illness deserves special treatment because of political correctness.

Being transgender is not an illness, mental or otherwise. What makes you think it is?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

"Being transgender is not an illness, mental or otherwise. What makes you think it is?"

As per the DSM-5 Gender dysphoria

It is a mental illness.

Someone with a 40% chance of having suicidal thoughts should not be responsible for carrying heavy weaponry and being subjected to purposefully abusive training.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

To serve in the military is a privilege not a right. There are lots of disqualifying factors for service, some people who have certain tattoos are banned. Also the military is not some type of social experiment. Society as a whole has not even worked out transgender issues fully yet.

So expecting the military to do so first takes away from the primary mission of the military, which isnt gender reassignment surgeries and determining which bathroom someone uses and which barracks they sleep in. For the military to work, everyone has to be the same. The military isnt the place to experiment just because you can order everyone to accept something.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Society as a whole has not even worked out transgender issues fully yet.

Some sections of society, you mean to say.

It was the same in regard to being gay, or not being white.

https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/blacks-civil-war

Don't worry; I'm sure the lag behinds will catch up, sooner or later.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Someone with a 40% chance of having suicidal thoughts should not be responsible for carrying heavy weaponry and being subjected to purposefully abusive training.

Yep. There's never been any heterosexual soldier who's gone off the rails and shot his buddies/civilians up.

LGBT is not a mental illness. You can't "cure" it with drugs, lobotomies, propaganda or religion.

A sex change is a physical procedure; the transgender person is already there, in terms of knowing what gender they are.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@Illyas

someone with a serious mental illness (i.e. gender dysphoria)?

@Toasted Heretic,

Sexuality and gender are not mental illnesses.

I have to chime in here because it seems to me that both of you are actually putting forward arguments that work directly against your respective interests and you might be better of switching places!

Toasted Heretic, remember that the sole reason transgendered personnel are able to have the US military fund their gender transition and other treatment is because the World Health Organisation and US medical authorities currently classify being transgendered as a psychological disorder called 'gender dysphoria'. I suspect many transgender personnel probably wouldn't support your stance because it would force them to get treatment at their own expense (and on their own time) and also strip them of the various discrimination protections for employees who are struggling with mental health issues.

Illyas, the fact that 'gender dysphoria' is a recognised medical condition is precisely why the government has to treat it and be sensitive to these people's needs. It's why they can't just be discharged out of the military like gay personnel were during 'don't ask don't tell' (because homosexuality was no longer classified as a mental disorder at that time). You should probably be agreeing with Toasted Heretic's point if you want all special measures for transgendered people to be removed.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I have to chime in here because it seems to me that both of you are actually putting forward arguments that work directly against your respective interests and you might be better of switching places!

I'm very fluid in that I believe the discrimination LGBT people face can lead to depression and worse but I don't believe you can define LGBT people solely because other people see them as simply "mentally ill".

Onwards, soldiers of all faiths, no faiths and all genders. The real enemy is the government and those that seek to promote prejudices.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I don't really have a position on this policy, but it seems that if someone wants to serve and risk their life for their country, they should be allowed to do so. It is a volunteer military. What I don't believe is that Trump consulted with anyone other than Pence and some alt-right wingers.

My thoughts exactly, viking. I actually found 'in any capacity' pretty offensive.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Toasted Heretic

I don't believe you can define LGBT people solely because other people see them as simply "mentally ill".

Well I think this is where we see a big difference between LGB and T. Many transgender people are profoundly unhappy because of the feeling that they were born with the wrong gender. It's not a state that most transgender people themselves actually want to exist in. They want to make their transition to being recognised as either a man or a woman asap, not remain transgender. Which is why I think it's slightly odd that so many non-transgender people seem to think that transgenderism is some sort of end in itself or a lifestyle that should be celebrated.

Honestly, I think it's fundamentally psychological, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't help these people with the treatment they desire (which is transitioning to another gender in most cases). The words 'psychological disorder' and 'mental illness' carry such a huge stigma only because most people fail to realise that they themselves exhibit the symptoms of dozens of disorders. We are all mentally ill according to the American Psychiatric Association. Nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm very fluid in that I believe the discrimination LGBT people face can lead to depression

I think it's difficult to claim that you are suffering from clinical depression if you say it comes from a specific external cause. That's usually not how depression works even though we use the term very loosely these day. I believe this is why psychiatrists felt the need to create a whole new condition since it didn't fit neatly into any existing diagnosis.

The real enemy is the government and those that seek to promote prejudices.

That's certainly true.. wait. no, what? The government? the real enemy?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

As per the DSM-5 Gender dysphoria

It is a mental illness.

Being listed in this dubious index doesn't make it a mental ilness. This is the same source that used to say homosexuality was an illness too.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

As per the DSM-5 Gender dysphoria

It is a mental illness.

"Being listed in this dubious index doesn't make it a mental ilness. This is the same source that used to say homosexuality was an illness too."

Actually it is exactly what makes it an illness.

Many things change after time and things are continuously researched, refined, and updated.

What is a red herring about Gender dysphoria is it's huge rate of associated suicides (40%).

Another thing that I will mention is that this announcement by Trump just happens to come a day after the Democrats have tried to pivot on their platform to try for his populist base. He has essentially decided on what they have to campaign on in 2018 and 2020.

They can ignore this and try for the populist base and thereby enrage their Regressive Leftist base or argue against it and thereby ensure that Trump keeps his moderate Conservative gems that are really concerned about who poops where in the shopping mall.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

His mentor was Roy Cohn. He partied with Roy Cohn. Then he dropped Roy Cohn when he was known to have AIDS. Donald Trump doesn't change with the moment. He uses people. It's that simple.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

I'm glad at least a couple people here get this. Military duty isn't any old job, it's a life or death. It's important that every member of the team on the front lines have the physical strength and mental fortitude to perform life threatening tasks, as well as being able to protect team members. Would you want someone covering you in battle who may not have the strength to carry you from danger if needed? Even flat footedness, or asthma as mentioned earlier, can get you barred from service, but no one speaks up for flat footers. In something like the military, safety and the ability to perform at peak for the task at hand override political correctness.

Why don't we get rid of physical exams and strength and endurance tests for special forces too? That's discriminatory towards fat people.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

"His mentor was Roy Cohn. He partied with Roy Cohn. Then he dropped Roy Cohn when he was known to have AIDS. Donald Trump doesn't change with the moment. He uses people. It's that simple."

Wow. Another completely biased and unfounded negative opinion of Donald Trump.

~ Yawn~

Try to keep your rage in check and stick to the topic please.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

RabidGaijinToday  03:53 pm JST

They can ignore this and try for the populist base and thereby enrage their Regressive Leftist base or argue against it and thereby ensure that Trump keeps his moderate Conservative gems that are really concerned about who poops where in the shopping mall.

Looks like someone is following Sputnik dispatches rather than listening to real Americans. People are outraged about this on both sides of the aisle. Indeed, it takes a special breed of incompetence to screw up an attack on sexual minorities to the degree Trump has.

First, he let some smug surrogate in his cabinet leak the comment that you just made, the idea that this is nothing but partisan political strategy. It's obvious that all of Trump's attacks on minorities are the same strategy and other right-wingers have done the same to sexual minorities since the 70s, but the thing is the strategy only has a chance of working so long as you don't break kayfabe. Ma and Pa Midwest may be deeply uncomfortable with Chelsea Manning and Caitlin Jenner, but you can only tap that discomfort and turn it into political actions so long as they think their discomfort comes from their moral superiority. Openly admit you're using their moral beliefs for political gain, and the magic spell is broken. But unfortunately there is no one in D.C. less qualified to make a sexual morality argument than Donald "grab 'em by the pussy" Trump.

Worst of all, this doesn't hurt the democrats in the slightest. The youth of America have grown up in a culture where non-straight/non-cisgender sexuality just isn't that big of a deal and they generally don't get old farts' anxieties about transexuality. This is the target demographic for Democrats. It literally costs them nothing to go after them. Trump may has well have have written a sign saying, "Hey all you millions of young idealists who are uncomfortable supporting the cynical DNC pragmatists, here's a free reason to get out there and support them over me," in letters large enough to be read from space.

Second, he made the bonehead move of appearing as an antagonist toward people who are currently serving the country. Only Trump could be so walled off in his own bubble to not realize the degree to which Americans fetishize military service. Those same Ma and Pa Midwesterners he's trying to win over spend an estimated 90% of their Facebook time passing each other glurge stories about how a random nameless author met a veteran in uniform eating soup at a local diner and the random nameless author was so moved by his service they bought the veteran a slice of pie and it was such a tragically moving patriotic moment that everyone in a quarter-mile radius to manly flag-waving tears. If you want to succeed in US politics you don't attack the military. Trump just did.

Thirdly, given Trump's deep aversion to service and contempt for anyone who sacrifices on behalf of others, the snarky response practically writes itself. The pampered spoiled rich guy who got five deferments for Vietnam and who bragged about how sleeping around without catching VD (or at least, without knowing he caught VD) was his personal Vietnam is now trying to say sexual minorities who are already putting their lives on the live to serve our country aren't good enough.

The cherry on top though is that Trump's jumping on this issue ruined Republicans' far less controversial campaign against gender reassignment surgery being covered by military health insurance (not that their campaign was any less contemptible, but it was objectively less controversial.) Republicans were trying to make the argument that gender reassignment surgery was a waste of resources. Now, that's not true and measuring the expense it costs compared to everything the military spends money quickly shows this argument to be fallacious, but Ma and Pa Midwest usually don't have a head for big numbers in context so they might have been swayed. But Trump is the poster boy for wasting other people's money, and by wading into the argument it is forever tainted with the guy who spends millions of taxpayer funds every weekend so he can play golf and not sleep in the same house as his wife.

Any attack on the transgender community is indefensibly immoral and it is shameful that America society can't even treat their trans community with as much dignity that Iran does. But when you look at how Trump has utterly bungled this attack in every conceivable way, it's hard not to laugh.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

There are indeed positions in the military for all persons such as, medical clerk, mechanic, finance clerk, quartermaster etc. However a forward operations base in Afghanistan or so will not have the facilities to accommodate those with special needs. As of the current state, they can barely accommodate the fittest soldiers and marines.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Katsu78

Lowest gas prices in 12 years.

Jobs being created and communities visibly being reinvigorated.

GDP growth. (Projected 3% maybe 4%)

Stock Market records being broken everyday.

Recently spoke to a crowd of 20,000 on a Wednesday night in middle America.

Ma and Pa Midwest are loving Trump, his policies and the effect he is having on America.

And, as per my last post, he did just force the Democrats to choose the options he has presented them to campaign on in 2018 and 2020.

Oh, and Comey and Lynch are now officially being investigated and the DNC IT specialist who tried to flee the country has been arrested this ensuring nothing but scandal for the DNC and the Democratic party for a long time to come.

The water is fine over in Trump-land. Wanna sip?

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

Yes bunch of Dems out there on TV saying this policy makes America less safe. The only way this would happen is if there were unfilled positions in the military and they would be left empty but for transgenders. This is not the case as plenty of non transgendered people are willing and able to fill those.

I find it strange the same people who were against the travel ban said it was because it wouldnt make America unsafe in any way. But banning transgenders, America is totally unsafe now because of that!

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

I'm glad at least a couple people here get this. Military duty isn't any old job, it's a life or death. It's important that every member of the team on the front lines have the physical strength and mental fortitude to perform life threatening tasks, as well as being able to protect team members. Would you want someone covering you in battle who may not have the strength to carry you from danger if needed?

Is that tongue in cheek? If so, good one!

What bothered me most with Trump's very final "in any capacity' statement is that it implies transgender people can not and should not serve their own country. Almost as if they were a 'liability'. Defence jobs aren't about being able to 'carry any of your mates from the battlefield' (that was actually the funniest/silliest part of your comment). Are 65yo 5'7" - 70kgs generals able to carry 110kgs blokes? How about nurses, accountants, drivers, pilots, translators etc? All Rambos?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

I'm just wondering if the Trump supporters here objected to him stating he'd affirm LGBT rights when he was campaigning.

Did they just ignore it in full confidence that he was talking his usual crap?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

LGBT rights 

To join or serve in the military has nothing to do with rights. There are lots of different categories that cause someone to be disqualified. This policy is just another one. Trump can continue to affirm LGBT rights while not allowing the T portion of that to join the military, the two are unrelated.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

People are outraged about this on both sides of the aisle. Indeed, it takes a special breed of incompetence to screw up an attack on sexual minorities to the degree Trump has.

It's vile, disgusting and goes beyond fuelling Trump's egotistical mission to overturn as much Obama legislation as possible.

He promised to protect the LGBT community. He has lied. Again.

He promised to create more jobs. Another lie. He's taking them away from thousands of soldiers.

Any attack on the transgender community is indefensibly immoral and it is shameful that America society can't even treat their trans community with as much dignity that Iran does.

I think the Iran reference is going to go over some people's heads, here. But yea, the attack is not only immoral but will enable more bigotry and prejudice against LGBT folk.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

BlacklabelToday  05:26 pm JST

I find it strange the same people who were against the travel ban said it was because it wouldnt make America unsafe in any way. But banning transgenders, America is totally unsafe now because of that!

It's pretty obvious if you actually listen to people instead of filtering everything you hear through an alt-right Internet message board, but to spell it out really simply:

Trump's Muslim ban and his transgender service ban are both dangerous to America because they both represent an institutionalized attack on an innocent community based on nothing more than political expediency and the fact that they look a little different, perpetrated by a craven idiot who can't handle the fact that people keep talking about how he may have committed the crime he clearly knows he committed.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Trump can continue to affirm LGBT rights while not allowing the T portion of that to join the military, the two are unrelated.

Defending the indefensible. What a shocker.

Wait until he comes for the gay and lesbian, the bisexual soldiers.

Then the Muslims. In case of "security concerns".

Then BAME people. Just in case.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

people said we are not any less safe if we allow refugees and people from terrorist affiliated countries to enter the USA.

yer we ARE less safe (from those same people opinion) if transgenders cant join the military. Defies logic there.

Trump isn't some evil person "coming for" anyone. He is simply removing a proposed policy of his predecessor. No ones rights are being taken because no one ever had this right to begin with.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

BlacklabelToday 05:46 pm JST

LGBT rights 

To join or serve in the military has nothing to do with rights. There are lots of different categories that cause someone to be disqualified. This policy is just another one. Trump can continue to affirm LGBT rights while not allowing the T portion of that to join the military, the two are unrelated.

In what way being transgender disqualifies you being a translator ?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The orange bawbag is just trying to stir up controversy, to defect from his Russian ties.

The most overlooked fact here, by Trumpanzees, is that it matters more what's between a person's ears, than what's between their legs.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

How does having a neck tattoo disqualify a translator? Or flat feet? Or epilepsy? Or being overweight? Yet those people are banned from military service too.

specific for transgender what if they are a translator to a country who doesn't support LGBT? Then you can't even use that person anyway.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

How does having a neck tattoo disqualify a translator? Or flat feet? Or epilepsy? Or being overweight? Yet those people are banned from military service too.

Neck tattoo. Well, I guess that's to do with decorum, doesn't bother me. The others are medical problems that could interfere or slow down operations.

specific for transgender what if they are a translator to a country who doesn't support LGBT? Then you can't even use that person anyway.

What about countries that don't support Jewish people? Will Trump be firing them, as well?

http://forward.com/fast-forward/378059/lgbtq-jews-condemn-trumps-despicable-transgender-ban/

6 ( +8 / -2 )

There are numerous problems in allowing transgender people to serve. First, major surgical procedures bar one from entering military service, and sex reassignment surgery is considered a major surgical procedure. Next, being under long-term medication bars one from entering military service. Those taking hormone therapy fall in this category. Diabetics using insulin may not enlist, those with asthma who require medication may not enlist. Overweight people who cannot lose weight may not serve, skinny people who cannot gain weight may not serve.

This sounds discriminatory, but military training is extremely difficult, and even those who are physically and mentally sound are pushed to extremes.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

sangetsu03Today 06:33 pm JST

There are numerous problems in allowing transgender people to serve. First, major surgical procedures bar one from entering military service, and sex reassignment surgery is considered a major surgical procedure. Next, being under long-term medication bars one from entering military service. Those taking hormone therapy fall in this category. Diabetics using insulin may not enlist, those with asthma who require medication [....]

Yes fair enough, that makes sense, then transgenders will be disqualified under those criteria (as well as heart transplant receiver or whatever doesn't fit), but not from being transgender, it's different to me.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I would protect any LGBTQ person from bodily harm, I don't judge people, and don't like seeing people bullied for being who they are! I may not fully understand the world of LBGTQ people, but I have gay family members in the US, and knew many in the Navy.

When I was in the Navy, we had many gays serving, and no one really cared, because they kept it to themselves, and they didn't bother anyone. It was not until "Don't Ask Don't Tell" that I started to see people being beaten and even murdered in the Navy, I was out of the service by then, so I don't know why something that was supposed to be a positive thing made it worse.

But when it comes to Trans people serving, I see problems, not just the fact that changes in hormonal levels can affect your moods and feelings both positively and negatively, but that when a trans person visits, or is stationed in a foreign land, what protections will they have while off base, then comes the problem of making everyone comfortable, how many different berthing and shower areas will be needed?

People are naturally uncomfortable in these types of situations, it is human nature, most may get used to it, but you can't force someone to be comfortable around Trans people, Just like you can't force a racist to like someone of another race.

It seems the more we tell people they have to be tolerant, the less tolerant they become, people don't like being told they have to change, Some see it as making 1000 people uncomfortable to make one person comfortable.

Lastly, The attempted suicide rates among gays are 4 times that of the US population, and Trans people suicide rates are over twice that of gays (4.6% for US population, 20% for gays, and 41% for Trans), so will being able to serve in the military make things magically better for them, and then all the rates will suddenly drop to 4.6 %, I doubt it, and that should be the biggest concern for everyone.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

All I'm saying is that sometimes decisions are actually practical with legitimate reasons. Not every single thing is based on discriminatory ideals.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

As far as other countries it's none of their business who is or isn't allowed in our military. So they can keep their opinion to themselves. Not like they wouldn't want our military to have weaknesses which they can exploit if needed, right?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@Blacklabel

As far as other countries it's none of their business who is or isn't allowed in our military.

I am not sure if you were replying to me or not, but if you were, I never said it was. I was talking about the Trans people who stick out, not all trans people look like the gender they chose to become, some stick out like a sore thumb and may become a target!

I was making arguments against letting trans people join the Military, it is just too much of a risk, in my opinion!

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

As per the DSM-5 Gender dysphoria. It is a mental illness.

But is "transgender" exactly the same as gender dysphoria? Transgender is a very general term and covers a lot of situations. The idea of banning transgender people from anything seems too vague an idea to have much meaning. A ban on those with serious gender anxiety issues may make sense. But should that extend to transexuals who have made a decision to adopt a particular gender and who have no anxiety issues?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Another sane, sound decision by President Trump.

Transgenders suffer from mental illness as proven by their suicide attempt rate of an astonishing 40%.

they would be nothing but a drain on both taxpayers and troop morale.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Yes even Lady Gaga while trying to complain about Trump's decision ended up validating it.

She says 45% of transgender between 18-25 years of age have already tried to commit suicide at least once. These are the people we need in our military? Nope

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Another sane, sound decision by President Trump.

Transgenders suffer from mental illness as proven by their suicide attempt rate of an astonishing 40%.

they would be nothing but a drain on both taxpayers and troop morale.

People who repeatedly and irrationaly target specific groups are just one of the factors why suicide stats can rocket in minority groupings.

Hatred is a mental illness; be it hatred of races, religions, LGBT, nationalities. It is perhaps the most difficult sickness to tackle.

Trump has enabled the seething haters to spread their venom. And innocent people will lose their jobs and be bullied even more. Perhaps even killed.

The blood will be on his hands and of those who gleefuly applaud his every, increasingly unhinged decision.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

This latest unjustifiable, bigoted, misguided, intolerant trump-twitter-decree shows clearly trump is not just an idiot, he is a dangerous idiot, and a scheming, lying one at that who is intent on further dividing the nation. Or is he really THAT stupid? If so, how could he have become a 'supreme leader'? Some people may answer, 'because we trusted him'.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Not like they wouldn't want our military to have weaknesses which they can exploit if needed, right?

This is just another example of Trump's revenge politics because of his hatred for Obama/Clinton. It has nothing to do with anything else. Hillary is Trump's Moby Dick and will take down both Trump and the USA. Trump is on self destructive mode.

She says 45% of transgender between 18-25 years of age have already tried to commit suicide at least once.

Trump based his decision to ban transgenders based on what Lady Gaga said? Is this really correct? What Lady Gaga says justifies Trump's transgender ban? Am I reading this correctly?

Conservatives quote from the news: We didn't ask for a transgender ban

More proof that this is based on Trump's hateful revenge politics, especially towards Obama and Clinton. This is all on Trump voters as they voted based on racism and discrimination.

Trump isn't some evil person "coming for" anyone. 

Yes, he is. He just wants revenge on Obama when he was made fun of at the correspondents' dinner. Trump is a racist hateful person.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

"Thank you to the LGBT community! I will fight for you while Hillary brings in more people that will threaten your freedoms and beliefs."

-- Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 10:31 AM - 14 Jun 2016

Wonder if Trump fought to keep the trans soldiers in the military

Wonder if Hillary would have brought people that threatens LGBT freedoms and beliefs

2 ( +3 / -1 )

From what I've been reading there was a group who wanted to stop funding of operations and medical costs, so Trump responded by banning all transgenders from the military. Which surprised even them.

My guess is the announcement via Twitter was a publicity stunt to get some support from religious nutjobs. FoxNews.com is linking to this on their front page:

http://www.toddstarnes.com/column/president-trump-bans-transgenders-from-military-service

"The militant liberal agenda has not only savaged the moral values of our country but has imperiled the defense of our nation by adding needless confusion, complication, and expense," said Robert Jeffress, the pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas. "Thank God for a President who is willing to say 'Enough is enough!' I applaud President Trump for exercising his judgment as Commander-in-Chief to make America safer and more secure by allowing our armed forces to concentrate on 'decisive and overwhelming victory' rather than serving as a petri dish for social experimentation."

and:

"This is a major victory for conservatives, for our military and it's a milestone from a standpoint of ending and reversing Obama-era social engineering policies that really crippled our nation's military," Family Research Council president Tony Perkins told The Todd Starnes Show. "President Obama used the military for the advancement of his radical social agenda. This president is saying no. The military is there for one purpose only - to keep America secure."

(end)

So I guess these handful of people were crippling our military. Now that they're going things will be much better for our country. Or something like that.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

SuperLib

So I guess these handful of people were crippling our military.

You'd have to be in the military to know just how much time, money, and energy we have already wasted on training and preparing the force to accommodate this handful of special people.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

People who repeatedly and irrationaly target specific groups are just one of the factors why suicide stats can rocket in minority groupings.

This fallacy is often repeated and never backed up with any evidence whatsoever.

In fact the 40~45% suicide rate is a direct result of mental illness, not fabricated cases of bullying.

Rather than use transgendered people as yet another tool in identity politics, SJWs should be pushing for more psychological help.

Sad that in effect, they don't give a hoot about helping them.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

You'd have to be in the military to know just how much time, money, and energy we have already wasted on training and preparing the force to accommodate this handful of special people.

How is it any different than the special time and energy required to handle various religious requirements? Or special dietary needs? Or women who don't have the physical strength of men?

I actually agree that it's not the military's place to be paying for gender reassignment. And that's the funds they were trying to stop. But banning all transgenders? From all positions? So someone reading a radar screen just got put out of work?

Just my personal opinion here, but I think Trump saw an opportunity to appease part of the GOP base and he acted on it. Transgenders aren't big in numbers and they probably aren't Republican so it's an easy choice to stigmatize them for political gain. And all you need is a Twitter account.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I entered the service before the Clinton administration, in the days when you were asked by an Army doctor to your face if you were homosexual. A "yes" answer disqualified you instantly.

But after entering the service, I discovered that there were, in fact, gay people serving. Personally, I didn't care. I thought that if they wanted to serve that badly, badly enough to deny their sexuality, and face the consequences if they were "outed" (though they never were), then they deserved more than a little respect.

The Army and other services are where the young often go to become "real men." The great majority of new enlisted men join after high school, the average age in my company was only 19. One of the greatest selling points that the Armed services has used to get young men to join is the promise to change you from a boy to a man. Fair or not, the ideal man for the great majority of young people is not a gay man. And I am sorry to say that this is not likely to change anytime soon.

As it is now, the military has lost much of the attraction that it once held for young men. Even the most tolerant of these young people are not comfortable with the possibility of being propositioned by a gay comrade, and most young men of recruiting age are not very tolerant.

The most ironic thing in the situation is that young military men were more tolerant when homosexuals were banned from service than they are now, when homosexuality is not banned. People are often very accepting and tolerant, so long as it is on their own terms. But when they are required to be accepting and tolerant, they are often far less so.

A final thing to consider is the treatment of soldiers who are deployed overseas. In many countries in the world which servicemen visit, homosexuality is not merely taboo, it is considered a crime, often a capital crime. Two male soldiers walking down the streets holding hands or making out behind a bar are likely to be assaulted, arrested, or simply lynched. And homosexual soldiers who are captured in conflicts in these regions are in for a difficult time indeed.

The world is not, and cannot be what we want it to be. The world is what it is; the good, the bad, and the ugly. I can't say that it was a good or bad idea to allow homosexuals to serve openly. In some ways the time has come, in other ways, it has not. Homosexuals served with distinction before the ban was lifted, and would have continued to have done so if the ban were still in place, and, personally speaking, I preferred it that way, because everyone got along. People are not getting along so well now, and what was once illegal but acceptable seems to have become legal but unacceptable.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The correct term is LGBTIQ.

Shocking to see so many on this board discriminate and belittle Intersex and Questioning people, they deserve to be included in the debate as well.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

This fallacy is often repeated and never backed up with any evidence whatsoever.

In fact the 40~45% suicide rate is a direct result of mental illness, not fabricated cases of bullying.

You do of course have links to prove this.

I'm open to the evidence on this subject or any subject.

Up to now, I think Superlib has given the most compelling explanation for the ban.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

People are often very accepting and tolerant, so long as it is on their own terms.

Yes siree; jest so long as y'all stay at the back of the bus, and drink from your own water fountains, Ah'm as tolerant as the next white man....

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I find it strange the same people who were against the travel ban said it was because it wouldnt make America unsafe in any way. But banning transgenders, America is totally unsafe now because of that.

I agree, it was a good move on the president and the militay.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@katsu correct. It is NOT discrimination and these people are not suitable. Even Lady Gaga made that point by her comments.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Bottom line, if this is such a key issue then Dems can add it to their party platform for 2018 elections. Let candidates run for office directly supporting transgenders in the military as one of their primary agenda items then see if they win or not.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I agree, it was a good move on the president and the militay.

Writing as someone who served in the military, why do you think it was a good move?

In light of your experience, who else do you think should be disqualified?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

It is NOT discrimination

No, it's just revenge politics because Trump is trying to turn around everything Obama did because of his hatred towards him and Hillary

And homosexual soldiers who are captured in conflicts in these regions are in for a difficult time indeed.

Why? Do they have a "I am gay" pin on their uniforms? How many times did this happen while you were in the military.

But after entering the service, I discovered that there were, in fact, gay people serving. Personally, I didn't care. I thought that if they wanted to serve that badly, badly enough to deny their sexuality, and face the consequences if they were "outed" (though they never were), then they deserved more than a little respect.

They were never "outed" but how did YOU know they were gay? Is there something you want to say here about yourself?

But when they are required to be accepting and tolerant, they are often far less so.

This is 2017. Many years later since the GHWB administration (or was it Reagan's, or even Carter's)- since I entered the service before the Clinton administration

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The latest news. Trump seems to have lied when he tweeted that he had consulted with his generals about this. He obviously hadn't met with them. The Joint Chiefs of Staff have stated that the military will continue its current policy until given specific direction from the president.

Or maybe The Donald was speaking in "euphenisms" again.

Commander in Chief needs to check himself in the mirror before declaring anyone else unfit to serve their country. He certainly ain't fit.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The problem with Trump's policy is that it's blanket discrimination.

If there are problems with depression or strength for transgender people, as some people here are using to justify Trump's policy, then the military should be doing physical and mental tests on transgender people (and really, everybody), to make sure they are fit to serve.

This policy is like saying 'black people commit crimes, so we're not going to hire them for our business anymore'. It's a blanket statement that catches everyone, rather than those who are/have an actual problem.

Which is exactly the problem with racism or any sort of bigotry.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Writing as someone who served in the military, why do you think it was a good move? 

I went as a Journalist, I wasn't a soldier. I think it's a good move because the military is not a social feel good identity politics experiment, it can cause confusion, low moral, scorn, hate and putting a lot of the men in an uncomfortable position, not to mention, the military shouldn't be in the business of paying for the gender surgeries and follow up care for these people. If they want to do it privately from their own money, I could care less, but not when an elective surgery is paid for by the tax payer.

In light of your experience, who else do you think should be disqualified?

No one else.

The latest news. Trump seems to have lied when he tweeted that he had consulted with his generals about this. He obviously hadn't met with them. The Joint Chiefs of Staff have stated that the military will continue its current policy until given specific direction from the president. 

How do you know that he lied? You weren't there, I wasn't there. You repeatedly stated, we shouldn't believe any of Trump's tweets and now you say we should believe them? You guys are all over the place. LOL!

Or maybe The Donald was speaking in "euphenisms" again. 

Or maybe the left are on their usual fishing expedition again...sigh...

Commander in Chief needs to check himself in the mirror before declaring anyone else unfit to serve their country. He certainly ain't fit.

I think he is and I think it was a much needed move, I don't think it's discrimination at all, if it were, then that ban would extend to gays as well and it doesn't. Hollweird is already out of control and the last place we need is a military that becomes a laughing stock and is approached to do a Reality TV show.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I went as a Journalist, I wasn't a soldier.

That's not true. I was an embedded journalist with a tank division in Iraq and I met many transgenders. They fit in fine and were great fighters. And one captain I interviewed who had gender changing surgery had to pay for it him/herself. What are you talking about?

How do you know that he lied?

No wall, no Muslim ban, no Hillary arrest, and no arrest of 5M voter fraud criminals.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

How do you know that he lied?

Because his generals contradicted what Trump tweeted.

Or are you implying that POTUS has a few screws loose?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Bass

My apologies. It's just that I thought you said you had served in the military.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Bottom line, if this is such a key issue then Dems can add it to their party platform for 2018 elections. Let candidates run for office directly supporting transgenders in the military as one of their primary agenda items then see if they win or not.

The problem is, the military would vehemently oppose it, I can see that coming down the road.

Because his generals contradicted what Trump tweeted.

That doesn't mean it's the truth. How many Generals. Why now all of a sudden we have to believe the tweets when you guys were so quick to dismiss them?

Or are you implying that POTUS has a few screws loose?

Not the president, the left, without a doubt.

My apologies. It's just that I thought you said you had served in the military.

No worries

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

it can cause confusion, low moral, scorn, hate and putting a lot of the men in an uncomfortable position

Jeeze, do you really go through all that just being in the presence of a transgender? Seems like we found the problem that needs fixing.

Oh, and is everyone noticing all the lovely stigmatization? Trump gave his people a nice platform on this one.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Jeeze, do you really go through all that just being in the presence of a transgender? Seems like we found the problem that needs fixing.

....or from the military's point of view you could switch that statement around.

Oh, and is everyone noticing all the lovely stigmatization? Trump gave his people a nice platform on this one.

Like the Dems and their Russian obsession?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

How many Generals.

I talked to the Generals -lots of them - when I was in Iraq and they are find with transgenders. It's just Trump with his hateful revenge politics an he wants to reverse everything Obama did just because he enjoys the reality show circus.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Why would military chiefs not want transgender people serving, as long as they are fit, able and willing to serve?

These senior military staff don't seem to have an issue; http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40733701

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No wall, no Muslim ban, no Hillary arrest, and no arrest of 5M voter fraud criminals.

Wall is being built.

Travel ban upheld by Supreme Court.

Hillary is being investigated again, both separately by the Judiciary committee and as part of Mueller's investigation.

Voter fraud commission request for voter records ruled legal by federal judge.

So which part of these makes Trump a liar? Seems everything he said is progressing along well to resolution.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

How many Generals.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff. These are the generals Trump confers with about such matters. Or did Trump think AG Jeff Sessions is a general because it's in his title?

Why now all of a sudden we have to believe the tweets when you guys were so quick to dismiss them?

Which "guys" are you confusing me with? I am not a stereotyped collective, and I have never dismissed Trump's tweets. They are the statements of America's president, regardless of how insane, contradictory, misleading, manipulative, or untrue they may be.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Wall is being built.

No, it's not. The funding is failing. Also, they will just use ladders.

Travel ban upheld by Supreme Court.

120 days is NOT a ban. That's a joke. ISIS can simply wait 120 days then sneak in though the Mexican border anyway with no wall (that Mexico will not pay for - another lie). ISIS attacks on US soil are all on Trump and 100% his fault. And even with a Mexican wall ISIS will just use ladders. Ladders never fail to go over walls.

Hillary is being investigated again, both separately by the Judiciary committee and as part of Mueller's investigation.

No, I said Hillary's arrest. Trump promised to have her arrested. He's just talking like he always does with no follow-through.

Voter fraud commission request for voter records ruled legal by federal judge.

How many arrests (out of 8 million voter ID fraud cases) have happened? Just about zero.

So which part of these makes Trump a liar?

See above like I said. I don't see any 50foot wall construction on Youtube. Link? Also, where are the coal jobs? He said he would trash NAFTA. I can go on but everything he says are lies. When and how will Mexico pay for the wall? There is no wall in the first place. No Hillary arrest either. He's just talking and Trump followers 100% believe him. Trump followers think Trump is a better businessman than Bill Gates.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Obama brought the USA into the 21st century and DT is returning the USA back to the 18th century! well done Mr Trump! whats next to save money, the return of the flintlock musket?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Total non-issue, though I'm sure all four transgender individuals in the U.S. army are upset.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

all four transgender individuals in the U.S. army

Four thousand, more like.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Why? Do they have a "I am gay" pin on their uniforms? How many times did this happen while you were in the military.

When I was in the military, it never happened. Homosexuals were careful about their sexuality, after all, getting caught in the act, or propositioning someone who might be offended by it could result in being outed. There was a special discharge for soldiers who were found out to be homosexuals, on the equivalent of "other than honorable." Soldiers who trained and served together became good friends, and among friends some things can be overlooked.

They were never "outed" but how did YOU know they were gay? Is there something you want to say here about yourself?

Obviously you have never been in the military. There was almost nothing about my immediate barrack's mates that I didn't know about. I knew where they were from, what they did in high school, about their romantic lives (or lack thereof), the sports they played, the hobbies they enjoyed, whether they were cat people or dog people. It's not like a job where you spend forty hours a week mixing with your coworkers. I was with them often 24/7. There were two gay men in my company, they were not attached, but they were known to spend their free time in places where gay men spent their free time. Everyone in the company knew this. Even if one of us had ratted these guys out to the cadre, it was unlikely anything would have happened to them, we never really saw them doing anything risqué. As they were good guys who always carried their share of work, we didn't care.

This is 2017. Many years later since the GHWB administration (or was it Reagan's, or even Carter's)- since I entered the service before the Clinton administration

I joined during Bush I's reign, and left during Clinton's. Not because of Clinton's policies, but because I stayed only long enough to finance my university education. I liked the military, or at least I did during my first year. When I joined up, I wanted to jump out of airplanes, and after completing that training, volunteered to join a rather difficult unit. I bit off more than I could chew. I made it through the training, but got more than my fill of things military, and when my enlistment ended, I ran for the door.

Yes siree; jest so long as y'all stay at the back of the bus, and drink from your own water fountains, Ah'm as tolerant as the next white man....

Yes siree jackoff, I'm mixed-race. I spent the early years of my youth living in a one-bedroom concrete house on a southwestern Indian reservation, watching a black-and-wide 13" tv rented form a Circle K for $13 per month. My fellow classmates in those days were as tolerant to me and my half-breed brother as white men were to them off the reservation. If there is one race in America which has had it worse off than "African-Americans", it was the "Native-Americans," who were not deemed good enough be used as slaves.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

So far, no general or military expert has admitted consulting Trump about this.

On the contrary, the Pentagon seems blindsided about this. They had no idea it was coming. Generally, the Secretary of Defense is consulted before a President makes a decision that has to do with defending the nation, but even Mattis was surprised by this.

Adding to the confusion is that Trump's decision came without a plan in place to implement it. (He's literally shooting his mouth off that he's leaving for other people to cash - like that wiretapping charge against Obama and having other people find evidence to support what he tweeted.)

In the meantime, the Pentagon is going on as-is. According to them, tweets don't count as an official order. Until or unless they receive an official written order:

Marine General Joe Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: “I know there are questions about yesterday’s announcement on the transgender policy by the President. There will be no modifications to the current policy until the President’s direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance. In the meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect . . . and will all remain focused on accomplishing our assigned missions.”

> General Mark Milley, Army chief of staff: “We grow up and learn to obey the chain of command, and my chain of command is secretary of the Army, secretary of defense, and the president. We will work through the implementation guidance when we get it . . . To my knowledge, the Department of Defense, Secretary Mattis has not received written directives yet.”

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Four thousand, more like

Which, if correct, is about 0.25% of the total number of serving servicemen and women.

Or, to put it another way, 99.75% of serving military men as women are NOT transgender.

This ridiculous pandering to insignificant minorities has to stop.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Which, if correct, is about 0.25% of the total number of serving servicemen and women.

Or, to put it another way, 99.75% of serving military men as women are NOT transgender.

This ridiculous pandering to insignificant minorities has to stop.

LGBT, BAME, who next?

Soldiers who suffer from PTSD? Veterans in trouble?

I imagine being called "insignificant" and derided doesn't really help matters. How many soldiers are suicidal or succumb to mental illnesses, post engagement etc?

This is the thin end of the wedge, my friends. More legitimising of demonisation and prejudice.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

In fact the 40~45% suicide rate is a direct result of mental illness, not fabricated cases of bullying.

There's no bullying in the armed forces and because it's never happened to you, any suggestion that there might be is false. Is that what you mean?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/02/12/military-hazing-is-often-horrifying-and-the-pentagon-has-no-idea-how-often-it-happens/?utm_term=.bcf2392ab9da

4 ( +5 / -1 )

*Four thousand, more like*

"Which, if correct, is about 0.25% of the total number of serving servicemen and women.

Or, to put it another way, 99.75% of serving military men as women are NOT transgender.

This ridiculous pandering to insignificant minorities has to stop."

It has. That is why there is all this shrieking and virtue signalling. The SJW identity politics of the early 00's is getting crushed and its adherents are outing themselves.

"Soldiers who suffer from PTSD?"

Soldiers living with acute PTSD aren't allowed to actively serve. People with PTSD aren't allowed to join. Just like Gender dysphoria, it is a mental illness. However the suicide rate is even close to the 40% that trans people succumb to.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

There's no bullying in the armed forces and because it's never happened to you, any suggestion that there might be is false. Is that what you mean?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/02/12/military-hazing-is-often-horrifying-and-the-pentagon-has-no-idea-how-often-it-happens/?utm_term=.bcf2392ab9da

hazing is a tradition across the board in the military no matter your race, religion or sexual orientation. Yet only transgenders have the astronomical suicide rate.

Which proves my point.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

hazing is a tradition across the board in the military no matter your race, religion or sexual orientation. Yet only transgenders have the astronomical suicide rate.

If you're constantly being told you're not fit to be in the army, you're a freak, you're ill, you're fabricating stuff, you're a liability - and not just by your peers but by anonymous online cowards - you might just feel despairing. When you fight for your country and then your President decides to malign you? How do you cope?

Which proves my point.

There's no point there. There's generations of veterans and ex-army who had ptsd and other mental health issues. Many ended up dead, in prison or on the streets. But no, it's the transgenders making it all up.

Even the IDF is looking better than the US military right now

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.803647

the Israel Defense Forces allows and even boasts of the integration of transgender soldiers into army ranks. Not only that, the IDF even funds sex reassignment operations.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Obviously you have never been in the military.

Have you? Lots of people lie about valor and make up stories they were in the military. Just talking about it online doesn't prove anything.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The Israeli Defence Force includes trans because they have to. Israel with its citizen army is in no position to turn down anyone for service, even the microscopic amount of trans.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

What's the problem here? Trump followers say 40% of them commit suicide and they want to join the military to get free gender change surgery billed to the tax payer? For real? They believe anything Trump says.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

They are the statements of America's president, regardless of how insane, contradictory, misleading, manipulative, or untrue they may be.

Hmmm....now all of a sudden you say we should give validity to these statements? Liberals are a real confused and indecisive bunch.

Obama brought the USA into the 21st century and DT is returning the USA back to the 18th century! well done Mr Trump! whats next to save money, the return of the flintlock musket?

No, Obama with his identity politics thought the military should embark on a massive social experiment and has gone so far as to pay for gender operation. Sorry, I don't want my tax dollars to pay for a liberal feel good science experiment. I have zero problems with it outside of the military and they use private or personal funds to do it.

Trump and the generals were sane enough to end this program and allow the military to be what they originally were and assigned to do.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

and the generals

No, the generals I interviewed in Iraq said transgenders are an important part of the military and they imply that Trump is just playing political games because of his hatred towards Obama and Hillary.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I see...well, anyway, it's a done deal and starting immediately. Good move.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Good move

My contacts (the Generals) in the military don't agree. They are also saying to me off the record that they think Trump is crazy. Especially the way he was talking about picking up hot chicks at the national scouts jamboree.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Nishikat - my contacts at the pentagon call this a wise decision that all the generals are on board with.

But lets keep that on the low down, yo

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Hmmm....now all of a sudden you say we should give validity to these statements? Liberals are a real confused and indecisive bunch.

You obviously didn't read my post. And again you fling out a silly generalization about "liberals". I never once said Trump's tweets shouldn't be given validity.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

it's a done deal and starting immediately

It's not.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In the military, you are declared "undeployable" for something as minor as not having an A grade on your dental evaluation.

War zones are no place for anyone who requires special medical attention.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A blanket ban, I do not agree with, but all sevicemen and women should be required to pass the same physical requirements appropriate to their position of duty.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

IF, the USA ever went to war with some one, (god hopes not) and all of the population was called up, my question is would the exclude transgender people from the call up? also how many people who didn't want to go to war would claim "I am transgender"? when some one is transgender and they want to join the military could they not say sorry your not able to have any operations paid for by the military and have this in there contract of employment? and now DT has decided in his infinite wisdom to remove transgender staff, I can see the lawyers rubbing there hands with the thought of a large law suits on the horizon.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

 also how many people who didn't want to go to war would claim "I am transgender"? 

Happens in Thailand and Korea all the time to avoid the draft.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Also as you can now identify as anything you want and supposedly gender is fluid on a daily basis can't a man just identify as a woman to avoid the draft?

you can't sue the military to force them to allow you to join now so I doubt that will change with transgender.

Plus once the word gets out that sex changes and therapy are free plus non deplorable status for around 9 months while you do it, isn't that bad for military readiness?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

 Trump followers say 40% of them commit suicide

41% have attempted suicide, not committed suicide!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"Transgenderism Is A Mental Disorder"

This is from a Trans male to female named Blair White, she said it, not me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOjuiAikrU

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Have to side with Trump on this one.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

If transgender & homosexuality are mental disorders/illnesses what are the medical treatments, meds and ratio of curing them?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Anyone should be able to serve if capable. Politics shouldn't be a part of it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@pacint

I don't think homosexuality is a mental disorder or illness, I think it is more of a sexual preference! The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible, but even then they will still need hormone treatment after surgery.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Agree, for my homosexuality(both sexes) and 2 transgender ones it is a lifestyle choice.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Insert friends in my last comment.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Plus once the word gets out that sex changes and therapy are free

Is this really the case?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's not.

From the looks of it and all the reports, it seems like it it's going right away into effect. You can't stop it, I can't stop it. It's going to happen.

You obviously didn't read my post. And again you fling out a silly generalization about "liberals". I never once said Trump's tweets shouldn't be given validity.

So this one, you're taking seriously? Good to know.

41% have attempted suicide, not committed suicide

There you go.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

LGBT are about 1.6% of the population. The only reason westerners make such a big thing about it is that this is the one sin they will not commit. But they don't talk about the other sins that the DO commit like there's no tomorrow. Fortunately, Japan was never Christianized, so we don't have it so bad here. Maybe not great, but not bad.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I am glad to see DT is on a mission to return the USA back to the 18th century, he seems to be on a mission to alienate almost all people who are not 100% American,

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Agree, for my homosexuality(both sexes) and 2 transgender ones it is a lifestyle choice.

Did you chose to be heterosexual? Is it a "lifestyle choice"?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The trans people already go through hardships throughout their lives, with both internal and external conflicts. The fact that they're already survivors and fighters even before volunteering in the military is a trait many should envy. This is not a budget problem since the military already spends several times more for the blue pills. This is not a capability problem since they passed boot camp, and in fact, there's even a Navy SEAL who is trans. This is just plain discrimination to distract people from Trump's own scandals. The guy who is a cowardly draft dodger prevents people who volunteer to be in the military. Trumpism.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I have no problem with the military making accommodations for intersex people. These are people that are not clearly one sex of the other and for the most part, do not have a problem accepting their situation. However, transexuals are people suffering from a mental illness and need help - not accommodation in the armed forces. For most it is unfortunate that they are unable to accept who they are biologically. Psychologists do not understand why other than to attribute it to a chemical imbalance in the brain. Their is no "trans" gene just as there is not "gay" gene. Transexuals are notoriously subject to suicide which suggests a level of unstability not suitable for the military.

I am not convinced that Trumps "tweet" policy on transexuals in the military is the last word on this. The US may continue with this mistake - time will tell.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Trump is only doing this because he has failed at everything else (no wall, no Hillary arrest, no national Muslim registry or ban, no ObamaCare scrapping, no Iran deal or NAFTA scrapping). Trump voters believe that 70% of transgenders try to commit suicide and that they join the military (and commit years and years of service) just to get free surgery. It seems the only people who think transgenders are mentally ill are the ones who believe in the flying Jesus zombie (believing in a cult is a mental illness which is brainwashed Christianity). Remember that flying Jesus zombie believers like Jerry Falwell are the ones who promoted violence against gays. And the ones who trash gays the most end up being gay themselves, like Ted Haggard (look up his story) so people who trash other people end up being those types of people an are closeted about it. Look at Dennis Hastert and that pastor George Rekers who hired someone from rentboy.com.

Two male soldiers walking down the streets holding hands or making out behind a bar

So I wonder about people making comments like this (see above for more). They make up fake stories about their valor and end up being gay themselves.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Love how he flat out lies about conferring with his generals about this, when they have said he did not.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

With all of Trump's saber rattling, he's going to need those transgender troops to fight everyone in the world he and the neocons want to fight.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hmmm

Lets get everyone all wound up out something that has very little impact or cost for anyone the way it is..

The conservatives lost on the "gay issue" so lets feed them some other nonsense with little to nothing to do with them and would never know about if we didn't make a big deal about it.

Meanwhile back at the WH.. Chaos and madness.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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