Trump signs order sweeping away Obama-era climate policies

“I am taking historic steps to..."

kill the planet.

Quiz time.

In what year did the number of coal jobs hit its peak in the US?

Answer: 1923.

Today, there are about 50K coal jobs nationwide. About 15K are in WV. Each day, the number of coal jobs declines. Every day. The fact is you could strip every regulation or law on coal and the US wouldn't add one coal job.

And, yet, WV is bound and determined to turn into a sewer while its citizens eat opioids like candy waiting for Trumpov to produce coal jobs.

Suckers.

“I am taking historic steps to

turn the clock back to the 1950s. The aging baby boomer time traveling to the days of his youth, and forcing the world go along with him.

Giving Trump and the Republicans the benefit of the doubt (it is an anything can happen world, after all) if the US can - as Trump's claiming - become energy independent, will that mean the US will bring troops home from MENA, the US (led by RExxon Tillerson) will no longer need to have connections with MENA's rulers, and will be able to sever ties with Putin and the Russian oil-igarchs (sic)?

Coal is a dead technology. Jobs have been declining for decades with or without regulation. The GOP trots out these coal workers as a way to get votes in places like Kentucky.

Destroy, destroy, destroy.

At least it looks this way.

God, I hope so. I'm so tired of seeing Americans out of work and a president that didn't care about millions of Americans that didn't know another way of life and he just in one swoop killed and uprooted their lives, this rectifies the damage that Obama brought on these people.

Destroy everything your predecessors have achieved and don't come up with a better plan.

So damn millions of Americans that depended on these jobs. I keep forgetting, the environment is more important for the left than the lives of the average American.

Wasn't that something Bannon, you know that right-wing-nut also asked for?

Probably.

I think this is the worst EO Trump has done so far. This one order affects massive shifts in energy finance, states' efforts to curb greenhouse emissions, the Paris accords targets, approvals for energy projects, environmental impact studies, not to mention it'll damage peoples' health. This has the potential to do decades of irreparable damage

bass4funk "I keep forgetting, the environment is more important for the left than the lives of the average American."

Am .... bewildered ....

bass4funkMAR. 29, 2017 - 09:41AM JST God, I hope so. I'm so tired of seeing Americans out of work

Honest question: do you actually see that, or have you been told to see it?

I keep forgetting, the environment is more important for the left than the lives of the average American.

Yeah, no, that's not remotely true and any time you see someone spout that line it gives away the fact that they've never actually spoken with an environmentalist, they just have this image of what environmentalists must be in their heads to support their need for environmentalists to be bad people.

Am .... bewildered ....

I feel the same about the left.

Honest question: do you actually see that

Yeah, most of the coal states and oil states voted for Trump

Yeah, no, that's not remotely true and any time you see someone spout that line it gives away the fact that they've never actually spoken with an environmentalist, they just have this image of what environmentalists must be in their heads to support their need for environmentalists to be bad people.

No, it's very true. I grew up in California, it's very true.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/04/how_the_environmentalists_are_destroying_california.html

bass4funkMAR. 29, 2017 - 10:16AM JST No, it's very true. I grew up in California, it's very true.

One of these days you need to learn that a blanket stereotype and a link to a partisan website isn't actually a response.

One of these days you need to learn that a blanket stereotype and a link to a partisan website isn't actually a response.

Boy, do I wish liberals would adhere to that same standard just once!

https://youtu.be/n0V1pkhJqF8

https://youtu.be/KdtJxZpkby4

No, I don't follow partisan sites, just listen what the people are saying, the people that are directly hit by this.

I believe the world is slowly getting tired of USA's crap and a realignment will happen.

So aside from UNDOING whatever Obama did,what has trumpy actually done?????

So damn millions of Americans that depended on these jobs. I keep forgetting, the environment is more important for the left than the lives of the average American.

There are a few thousand depending on those jobs, not millions. There are tens of millions of people depending on clean air to breath and no sulfur in their water.

The actual health care costs and quality of life for millions of people far outweigh outdated jobs that should have disappeared long ago. The analysis needs to consider both ends of the spectrum, not just the feel good analysis of bringing back jobs only the coal mine owners want back.

Carbon dioxide and methane are two of the main greenhouse gases blamed by scientists for heating the earth.

All the flora and fauna on this planet emit carbon dioxide, not to mention the massive amount released by just one volcanic explosion. Methane is though a different story, but the climate policies were/are targeting carbon dioxide only, a life sustaining gas.

Most of the jobs are going to be the ones LAWYERS will get, this is going to be a long and drawn out process! Most people can't even see that! Sad really really sad!

I keep forgetting, the environment is more important for the left than the lives of the average American.

Wow! Been to China, b4f?

All the flora and fauna on this planet emit carbon dioxide

You sound all sciency saying flora and fauna, but you may want to go back to science class or stop listening to republicans who have no clue about science.

Flora emits O2, Fauna emits CO2.

Burning flora and fauna (living or as an oil product) also emits CO2. Burn enough flora, and the remaining flora will have no capacity to absorb CO2 and CO2 levels will continue to rise.

Man pumps millions of barrels of oil out of the ground each day, and every bit of it gets burned. Man also burns thousands of acres a day, and it is not replaced (on the land or in the ocean). There is a point when the scales go to far to the CO2 side, and there is no recovery.

There have only been a couple of nutball unreviewed scientific studies (i.e., not peer reviewed) that claim no global warming. The right side hangs onto it like it supports creationism.

You don't need science to see global warming. Just go off the coast of New Orleans, and you can see where large groups of islands are now underwater because of rising sea levels.

bass4funkMAR. 29, 2017 - 10:16AM JST Honest question: do you actually see that Yeah, most of the coal states and oil states voted for Trump

So you don't personally see that, you just assume it based on a statistic you think you can twist into party propaganda.

Let me ask you a question - presumably you are not a communist. Presumably you believe in capitalism. So presumably you believe someone should not be entitled to a job just because they want one. So if all of those assumptions are true (and feel free to correct me if they are not), why do you assume coal or oil workers deserve jobs?

Particularly in the case of coal, a dirty, toxic, climate-change contributor, the number of jobs in the coal industry is far lower than the number in the solar energy industry. Why do you seem to believe the government should put our citizens and future generations at risk just to employ people in an unsustainable industry? Isn't the more rational approach to get these workers the job skills they need to be productive workers in 21st century industries, rather than waste government energy propping up 19th century industries?

bass4funkMAR. 29, 2017 - 10:55AM JST One of these days you need to learn that a blanket stereotype and a link to a partisan website isn't actually a response. Boy, do I wish liberals would adhere to that same standard just once! https://youtu.be/n0V1pkhJqF8 https://youtu.be/KdtJxZpkby4

Ah, you appear to have misunderstood me. You put the emphasis on my word "partisan" when that was just extra criticism - my main emphasis was on the word "link". If you want to engage with other people, links should be used for evidence, not for the entire argument. If all you do is toss out some personal insults to everyone who disagrees with you and some links that you can't even be bothered to explain what they are, you're not actually engaging in discussion. You're wasting everyone else's time with trolling. You should really try to do better.

Coal is an endangered species. Coal mines may have less restrictions, but many industries and consumers are trending away from coal to more environmentally-friendly alternatives.

So just because Trump favors coal doesn't necessarily mean industry and consumer demand will follow him.

So you don't personally see that, you just assume it based on a statistic you think you can twist into party propaganda.

No, not my style, strike one.

Let me ask you a question - presumably you are not a communist.

No, that's why I left California.

Presumably you believe in capitalism. So presumably you believe someone should not be entitled to a job just because they want one. So if all of those assumptions are true (and feel free to correct me if they are not), why do you assume coal or oil workers deserve jobs?

So what you are saying is, people that have worked 4 generations in that industry and know nothing else, Obama can come in and just simply pull the plug? He didn't even offer or sat down with these communities to see what they can do to put food on the table or how they could provide for these people. I care about the economy as well, but when it comes to families surviving and choosing over a little smelt or turtle or cactus, then I'm with the people all the way.

Particularly in the case of coal, a dirty, toxic, climate-change contributor, the number of jobs in the coal industry is far lower than the number in the solar energy industry.

Yeah, I get it, but there are so many ways where you can burn coal in a cleaner and more efficient way.

Why do you seem to believe the government should put our citizens and future generations at risk just to employ people in an unsustainable industry?

But it's ok for our government to force people to buy into a toxic healthcare plan they don't like need or may never use and costs way too much? You guys on the other hand are ok with that, right?

Isn't the more rational approach to get these workers the job skills they need to be productive workers in 21st century industries, rather than waste government energy propping up 19th century industries?

Sure, create strong private jobs in the private sector and slowly ween these people off and provide compensation and training assistance and I am with you all the way, but don't cut the legs from these people. If 20 million would lose their health insurance, you wouldn't feel good about that either.

This is so illogical, that I'm almost at a loss for words.

I feel the opposite about the left not getting it.

Do you even understand that without a healthy, stable environment, there is no life?

China and Mexico seem to be doing fine.

Money would be meaningless. Remember, irregardless of computers, automobiles, and Super Nintendos, humans are animals first, capable of extinction just like every other organism, and the millions that are already extinct, thanks to both nature and human activity. Stupidity beyond belief!

Ahh, we'll be ok.

But Trump believes coal can be clean? He has many fantasies!

Actually the man is mad.

Flora emits O2, Fauna emits CO2.

Really, so Flora does not emit CO2 ? well Flora respiration emits CO2, you may want to take those science classes or forget the science and just keep hating trump, now that is easy, right. And that global warning and islands under water is not caused by CO2, may want to research CH4 and its affect on global warning.

people that have worked 4 generations in that industry and know nothing else ...

...need to wake up and do what they can to better things for their kids.

My Dad started his working life as a coal miner (no option; 1930s, widowed mother, leave school at the earliest opportunity and start earning, in the highest-paying job available to a kid with no qualifications) and though the money was good he hated every minute of it and vowed that none of his children would ever work underground in a filthy, dangerous job. He insisted we all get a good education. He also went to night classes to earn qualifications so that he could get a better job (ended up in a cushy office designing transmission systems). Why has it taken these Kentucky miners 4 generations and they still don't think they or more importantly their own kids deserve better? You don't 'survive' by pushing your kids down the pit, not in the 21st century. You don't applaud a man who's just pushed you back underground and signed away your chance of a better life, clean air and unpolluted water.

Yeah, I get it, but there are so many ways where you can burn coal in a cleaner and more efficient way.

This statement is too confusing. You know a way to burn coal clean, but the rest of the world doesn't do it? There are ways, but the regulations just got nixed.

China and Mexico seem to be doing fine.

What is your definition of "fine"? Should the U.S. be the same state as China or Mexico?

Not to disparage those countries, but I would prefer not to live there because of the pollution in China and Mexico and possible chemicals in food and water in China.

The same goes for Los Angeles, although the air is much better than when I last visited there, because of state clean air regulations.

when it comes to families surviving and choosing over a little smelt or turtle or cactus, then I'm with the people all the way.

There is some truth to this, but only if the long term is considered with the short term. I never shed a tear for the spotted owl.

However, the short term effects should not drive the long term, and politicians are always short term thinkers developing short term solutions. What I am seeing from the GoP is a step back to the 50's ways of thinking.

So, let's see... China, reliant on coal, has choking air and is having to try and come up with methods to clean the air... Trump the Chump decides that he wants some of the same? Does he really want Americans to have to go around with face masks on? Does he want kids to develop cancer? I'm not a greenie but even I can see that coal is the dirtiest fuel imaginable.

Trump's an idiot.

bass4funk: "I keep forgetting, the environment is more important for the left than the lives of the average American."

Wow... just, wow...

"No, I don't follow partisan sites, just listen what the people are saying, the people that are directly hit by this."

Excuse me? You literally plagiarise partisan sites all the time, like the National Review, and claim it is "truth", and you're the most partisan poster on here.

"people that have worked 4 generations in that industry and know nothing else "

Are probably thankful Trump is nixing a lot of education funding, because now everyone else will be as dumb and irresponsible as they are.

bass4funkMAR. 29, 2017 - 03:10PM JST

So what you are saying is, people that have worked 4 generations in that industry and know nothing else, Obama can come in and just simply pull the plug?

Let's parse out exactly what you mean by that question. Are you asking about if Obama should have been able to just walk into a private business and say, "You, Bob Miller, you're fired!" then no. If you are asking if Obama should have been able to just walk into the offices of Bob Miller Coal Mining Co. and say, "We're shutting down your business!", then no. But these things didn't happen, so there is no point in discussing them.

But if you mean what actually happened, that Obama after reviewing solid environmental research and our nation's sustainability needs, established regulations that make certain practices that harm the environment we all share not permissable and certain coal mining industries decide they can no longer do business under those regulations - yeah. I totally support that. Our hypothetical Bob Miller's 4 generations of work in an unsustainable, toxic industry should not be an excuse to continue the industry.

He didn't even offer or sat down with these communities to see what they can do to put food on the table or how they could provide for these people.

You're conflating two separate issues: how we deal with people who are unemployed is a different issue from how we deal with environmental regulation. The fact that Republicans refuse to make a meaningful skills retraining policy is not an excuse to just trash every regulation that might result in someone being unemployed.

And let's remember - there are far fewer people who are going to be unemployed from coal than there are people working in solar energy - an industry that Trump's hostile environmental policies will surely harm. Why is it you have no worries whatsoever about how people in the solar energy industry will put food on the table? Why do you only express human sympathy to coal miners?

Yeah, I get it, but there are so many ways where you can burn coal in a cleaner and more efficient way.

Cleaner and more efficiently are not the same as clean and efficient. Coal will never be a clean or efficient energy source. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. And there is nothing you can do to make coal a sustainable fuel.

But it's ok for our government to force people to buy into a toxic healthcare plan they don't like need or may never use and costs way too much? You guys on the other hand are ok with that, right?

That didn't happen. You might not like the Affordable Care Act, but your personal opinion does not make it even figuratively "toxic", and besides, figuratively toxic policies are still nothing compared to the literally toxic coal industry.

Stop wasting our time with deflections and distractions. Your hatred of Obama does not make this backwards coal policy good.

Sure, create strong private jobs in the private sector and slowly ween these people off and provide compensation and training assistance and I am with you all the way, but don't cut the legs from these people.

There is no such thing as "weening" people off of toxic industries. The past couple hundred years of industrial history have shown very clearly that private businesses will always produce toxic pollution if the toxic pollution is less expensive than a more benign approach and if there are no government regulations to make the industry change. And these hypothetical "people who have been in the coal industry for 4 generations" have no reason to learn new skills so long as they are being given employment by coal companies.

Your call to "ween" people is nothing but a perpetuation of the status quo.

Excuse me? You literally plagiarise partisan sites all the time, like the National Review, and claim it is "truth", and you're the most partisan poster on here.

Oh, you think so? I should then quote the NYT then? What's your suggestion? Boy this is going to be interesting.

Are probably thankful Trump is nixing a lot of education funding, because now everyone else will be as dumb and irresponsible as they are.

He didn't get to education yet, but Common Core will be the thing of the past. Thankfully.

Ok. You feel the opposite about the left: the left is logical?

That never came out of my mouth. Still too early for that Cuervo Gold.

This statement is too confusing. You know a way to burn coal clean, but the rest of the world doesn't do it? There are ways, but the regulations just got nixed.

I never said I know better and I never said, I was not for alternative energy, but displacing people without a plan, sorry. I wouldn't do it at least not the way Obama did it. I would have done it more in incremental steps.

What is your definition of "fine"? Should the U.S. be the same state as China or Mexico?

Good God, No, but I'm more worried about the blue collar workers than I am for EPA overreach.

Not to disparage those countries, but I would prefer not to live there because of the pollution in China and Mexico and possible chemicals in food and water in China.

We're nowhere near where China and Mexico are at, been to both countries, don't forget, they technically don't have a real FDA either, so it's an entirely different can of worms all around.

The same goes for Los Angeles, although the air is much better than when I last visited there, because of state clean air regulations.

Cleaner air and that's also the reason why so many average Californians are leaving because the EPA completely ruined the state in so many ways, but as i said, ask the average farmer in California and most don't like that 3 letter word.

Yup, I remember the days when LA had purple air.

Look, I'm not saying you don't have a point, I think Cleo made a valid point as well, I agree to a large point, my argument is, the way the Obama administration implemented this regulation without even thinking about the millions of people that depend on coal in this country. That's another reason why the heartland didn't like Hillary at all, she wasn't listening to the people or the people of states like Kentucky. It was handled badly and there's no denying that. I just think if you going to make that kind of a change, talk and inform the residents that depend on coal, hear them out, think of their needs, address their concerns and come up with alternatives that will get these people a way to have a lucrative financial income where they can pay their mortgage and feed their families.

Let's parse out exactly what you mean by that question. Are you asking about if Obama should have been able to just walk into a private business and say, "You, Bob Miller, you're fired!" then no. If you are asking if Obama should have been able to just walk into the offices of Bob Miller Coal Mining Co. and say, "We're shutting down your business!", then no. But these things didn't happen, so there is no point in discussing them.

And that's another reason why the Dems are in the position they are in now politically. One nail in the coffin.

But if you mean what actually happened, that Obama after reviewing solid environmental research and our nation's sustainability needs, established regulations that make certain practices that harm the environment we all share not permissable and certain coal mining industries decide they can no longer do business under those regulations - yeah. I totally support that. Our hypothetical Bob Miller's 4 generations of work in an unsustainable, toxic industry should not be an excuse to continue the industry.

Ok, that's your opinion, but I disagree.

You're conflating two separate issues: how we deal with people who are unemployed is a different issue from how we deal with environmental regulation. The fact that Republicans refuse to make a meaningful skills retraining policy is not an excuse to just trash every regulation that might result in someone being unemployed.

And let's remember - there are far fewer people who are going to be unemployed from coal than there are people working in solar energy - an industry that Trump's hostile environmental policies will surely harm.

There are cleaner and more efficient ways to burn coal, don't believe the hype, homie.

Why is it you have no worries whatsoever about how people in the solar energy industry will put food on the table? Why do you only express human sympathy to coal miners?

Because ever government funded alternative energy project under Obama exploded like the Hindenburg. If they want funding, the powerful left on the West Coast and NY can fund them, Al Gore included.

Cleaner and more efficiently are not the same as clean and efficient. Coal will never be a clean or efficient energy source. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. And there is nothing you can do to make coal a sustainable fuel.

I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with you.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Browse_by_Topic/ClimateChangeold/responses/mitigation/emissions/clean

That didn't happen.

Yeah, it does, you don't buy into it, you have to pay a penalty. So basically, either way, I don't want it, I'm still screwed and the government gets my money.

Stop wasting our time with deflections and distractions.

I'm not, you just don't like another alternative point of view.

Your hatred of Obama does not make this backwards coal policy good.

Has nothing to do with hating Obama and for the record, I hated his policies, don't know the man.

There is no such thing as "weening" people off of toxic industries. The past couple hundred years of industrial history have shown very clearly that private businesses will always produce toxic pollution if the toxic pollution is less expensive than a more benign approach and if there are no government regulations to make the industry change. And these hypothetical "people who have been in the coal industry for 4 generations" have no reason to learn new skills so long as they are being given employment by coal companies.

Maybe if the left would have cared more, the results of the electoral college would have been different, but they kept to their principles and here we are. Tissue box?

Your call to "ween" people is nothing but a perpetuation of the status quo.

Uh-huh, yawn, ok....

bass4funk: "Oh, you think so? I should then quote the NYT then?"

You said you did not read or quote partisan sources. I proved you did. Period.

"What's your suggestion? Boy this is going to be interesting."

Not really, because you constantly saying you're not partisan when you are in fact the most partisan poster in American politics' threads is not 'interesting', although it is vaguely entertaining watching you backtrack. Next you'll be right back to saying you don't read of post from partisan sites despite just admitting you do. Again, not "interesting" in the least.

"I'm not, you just don't like another alternative point of view."

Ah, and the bass hypocrisy comes into play again. Yes, you are deflecting.

"Maybe if the left would have cared more, the results of the electoral college would have been different"

You really can't get over the fact that the majority did not vote for Trump and did not want him there, and probably REALLY hate the fact that many of those who voted for him have openly said they regret it, even if you decide to take the 'alternative fact' that he's popular instead of being at an all time low, which was the all-time lowest to begin with at inauguration, and the lowest after two months.

bass:. come up with alternatives that will get these people a way to have a lucrative financial income where they can pay their mortgage and feed their families.

And which part of Trump's plan does that?

As I've said before, it's cruel how the GOP trots these people out when they know coal is a dead technology. They don't have the guts to be honest with them so they've created a special group of benefits just for them (and their votes) which goes against their supposed free market platform. I'm guessing coal workers are predominantly white?

I have given up trying to pretend that Trump is not really the President.

I have given in to wondering how bad it would be to go four years without a president.

you made endless comments on the man and not his policies only

I thought by my comments you would have been able to guess pretty much where I stand.

Wow! You went searching that far back on my comments? Zichi, I'm blushing, but seriously, you don't think I have the ability to change my mind at some point in time?

A very, very, very long time ago when I was young and naive I was a lilberal at one time, but I woke up.

And which part of Trump's plan does that?

I'm not the person to ask, this just happened today, I think

As I've said before, it's cruel how the GOP trots these people out when they know coal is a dead technology.

Many don't think so.

They don't have the guts to be honest with them so they've created a special group of benefits just for them (and their votes) which goes against their supposed free market platform. I'm guessing coal workers are predominantly white?

Harry Potter fantasy, you guys are the funniest!

No you have written so many loaded comments its easy just use the search at the top.

2015 wasn't at the top.

A guy who frequently changes his stance, position and opinions.

That's why I'm an independent.

You are the one stating you didn't hate "the man".

I don't.

bass4funk: "Oh, you think so? I should then quote the NYT then?"

You said you don't read or cite partisan sources, and now you just admitted you did. Period. So don't turn around in five minutes and say you don't again.

"2015 wasn't at the top."

Zichi didn't say it was at the top, he said use the search at the top and it's easy to find. Try reading.

"That's why I'm an independent."

Saying Trump is a lunatic a year ago and now selling your grandmother for him is not "being independent". You're still very easily the most partisan poster on US political threads. Sorry, but zichi is bang on when he says you flip-flop all the time. Again, a year ago you said Trump was a lunatic. Now you love the man no matter what he does (even when you love him for something hates, then love him when he also does a 180 and loves it).

You said you don't read or cite partisan sources,

Usually, I don't, but I use reputable sites.

and now you just admitted you did. Period.

I said, usually, I never said, NEVER or NO WAY.

So don't turn around in five minutes and say you don't again.

"2015 wasn't at the top."

No, meaning, he had to go back a bit to find that. I was like wow, felt flattered.

Zichi didn't say it was at the top, he said use the search at the top and it's easy to find. Try reading.

Sorry, forgive me for being human and not perfect as a liberal. ROFL

Saying Trump is a lunatic a year ago and now selling your grandmother for him is not "being independent".

Pardon me, but you don't get to define who or what I am politically.

You're still very easily the most partisan poster on US political threads.

Actually, I'm not.

Sorry, but zichi is bang on when he says you flip-flop all the time. Again, a year ago you said Trump was a lunatic. Now you love the man no matter what he does (even when you love him for something hates, then love him when he also does a 180 and loves it).

I am just mystified at you guys, what is wrong with not liking a guy and then jumping on the bandwagon? I know liberals like to be in lockstep with their peers, but I am not, never have been and never will be. I voted for Clinton twice, if I were a straight down the road conservative, I would have never done that. I didn't like Trump in the beginning, but the more I saw of him and heard him speak, the more he made perfect sense, that's my right and I'm allowed to change that and if people don't like it.....well....I don't care about party affiliation, personally, I hate both parties. I just call out liberal hypocrisy because there's a lot more of it to go around. I get on the right as well, but I know you guys conveniently overlook it, am I surprised? Nope, not at all.

"I didn't like Trump in the beginning, but the more I saw of him and heard him speak, the more he made perfect sense"

Trump is well-known, even by some of his supporters, for being a spectacularly illogical, rambling speaker with the inability to link ideas coherently.

I think your conversion to the fringe of lunatics was more to do with your first choice crashing and burning and Trump looking likely to win. The timing was a bit suspect.

I don't remember you explaining exactly why you thought Trump was representing a lunatic fringe in the first place. What was it?

Trump is well-known, even by some of his supporters, for being a spectacularly illogical, rambling speaker with the inability to link ideas coherently.

So that makes people like you or other Trump haters better? It's comments like that which helped many people make a choice to vote for Trump, but then again, you had Obama supporters that didn't even have a clue as to how these impoverished and neglected segment of the population could vote for someone like Trump. As far as being illogical, you can't make an empire and billions if you're illiterate. Besides, we had 8 years of a so called smart and brain child and it didn't do jack, but muck up the country.

I think your conversion to the fringe of lunatics was more to do with your first choice crashing and burning and Trump looking likely to win. The timing was a bit suspect.

I think the fringe lunatics were the people that would even come close to thinking about voting for the woman with the pantsuits. Thank God that never materialized and thankfully, the forgotten and neglected and reverse racially targeted segment of America decided to rise up and NOT take it anymore.

I don't remember you explaining exactly why you thought Trump was representing a lunatic fringe in the first place. What was it?

Lunatic? Hmmmm....I think the lunatic fringe are the people living in the coastal regions of the US.

"I don't remember you explaining exactly why you thought Trump was representing a lunatic fringe in the first place. What was it?"

"Lunatic? Hmmmm....I think the lunatic fringe are the people living in the coastal regions of the US."

Pathetic evasion. Typical of hypocritical, morally bankrupt bandwagon-jumpers with no answer to a straight question. Molluscs have more backbone than people like this.

No, you just don't like the answer I gave. Nothing evasive. The lunatic so called fringe are the people that are in the coastal areas.