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Trump team takes aim at records probe; calls it 'misguided'

58 Comments
By ERIC TUCKER

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Government documents, whether classified or not, are the property of the government. Trump withheld the return of a number of them, seemingly hiding some. Some classified documents are missing from their sleeves.

DOJ has every right to investigate.

According to most legal experts, Judge Cannon’s ruling is pretty idiotic, but she certainly doesn’t deserve death threats.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

“In what at its core is a document storage dispute that has spiraled out of control, the Government wrongfully seeks to criminalize the possession by the 45th President of his own Presidential and personal records.”

Another bad faith argument by Team Trump.

He was hiding government documents among personal ones. 45 is a crook, always has been.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Has the FBI searched all his mansions and golf course resorts yet? Just asking on behalf of our national security civil servants and informants who risk their lives.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

When the government seizes his assets, which eventually they will be able to, I hope they turn all of his golf courses into municipal golf courses and let the entire population use them! Seems only fair since we, the public, have been subsidizing trump crime family for decades.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

“And the criminal statutes that the department has used as the basis of its investigation, including one criminalizing the willful retention of national defense information, do not actually require that the records be classified.”

An important detail.

Another important detail not to be overlooked is that 45 himself bolstered the laws and punishments that he is now under investigation of breaking.

Ooops.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Well, at least they got their talking points straight. Legally indefensible but they got them straight.

He had 11,000 government docs that didn’t belong to him. That’s theft of government property.

The government had demanded their return, he knew this and kept them anyway. And not in his later locked storage closet but in his damn desk. That’s obstruction.

Some of these were national defense documents. That’s the Espionage Act.

Some of THEM were so highly classified that he could no longer read let alone possess them.

Some of THEM were so classified that the FBI agents had to be read in on them just to move them around legally.

As a matter of law it’s irrelevant, but Don still hasn’t offered the slightest explanation for why he took these highly classified documents, or where the documents in the empty folders are or what happened to them, or what he was planning to do with them leaving a reasonable person to wonder “Was he going to sell them?”

Desperate and flailing, Don panics to make this about anything other than what it is, a crime.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Another bad faith argument by Team Trump.

One would think his lawyers would clue into the fact that they can and will be sanctioned for deliberate bad faith arguments.

The Judge in the Clinton suit not only feed the law suit into a rhetorical shredder, he specifically reserved the right to sanction the lawyers for making bad faith arguments and wasting the judicial system’s time.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Why did Trump have classified secret documents of nuclear secrets of other countries? Why did Trump have a file on the sex life of French President Macron? Why did not Trump hand over all the government papers during the first visit? Who informed the FBI about the documents?

DOJ subpoenas 30+ Trump allies in Jan 6 probe.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

The Judge in the Clinton suit

Oh the judge appointed by….Bill Clinton?

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

Not a golf club in sight. Pretty tough to play without clubs.

Micheal Cohen says “Mr. Mushroom putter” doesn’t trust his clubs not to be bugged (and for once he might actually be right. It’s entirely possible that the FBI has a court ordered wire in place.) So he’s doing business outside, like the wannabe mob boss he is.

But that begs the question, does he really not understand the function of a parabolic microphone?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

FBI director appointed by Trump.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

There has been no proof to date that in fact these documents that were once classified still are.

that is baby step one that is being purposely skipped to try to quickly move to the juicier parts they can leverage for the election.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

There has been no proof to date that in fact these documents that were once classified still are.

“And the criminal statutes that the department has used as the basis of its investigation, including one criminalizing the willful retention of national defense information, do not actually require that the records be classified.”

An important detail.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

There has been no proof to date that in fact these documents that were once classified still are. 

Other than the big red and yellow borders and the words “secret”, “top secret” and “SCI.”

There’s also not one scrap of evidence at any level of the government that any type of declassification took place.

If there were, you can bet that’s what his lawyers would be leading with.

And again, I know the law is hard for you, but none of the potential charges registered classification to make a case. The classification stays just makes the cases more damning, and likely will result in an adjustment up at sentencing.

Different day, same factually wrong and legally irrelevant arguments.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

There has been no proof to date that in fact these documents that were once classified still are.

Read the article. It's irrelevant from a legal angle whether the docs are classified or not. He took presidential documents to his house. That's illegal. Period.

that is baby step one that is being purposely skipped to try to quickly move to the juicier parts they can leverage for the election.

They? Who are they? Do I smell a conspiracy theory?

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Blacklabel

There has been no proof to date that in fact these documents that were once classified still are.

Declassified documents are date stamped and signed. But all the documents, whether classified or not, belong to the government and not to Trump.

The list of the seized documents included classified ones.

that is baby step one that is being purposely skipped to try to quickly move to the juicier parts they can leverage for the election.

Sorry, that makes no sense to me.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

if nothing is classified then it’s just a simple records dispute between an ex president and a national librarian group.

huge walk back from what this was claimed to be if that’s all it is.

kinda like Trump personally colluded with Russia ended up to be someone he knew talked to someone from Russia. Wasn’t what was promised in the allegation phase.

-19 ( +2 / -21 )

Some documents like those on nuclear secrets are never declassified.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Blacklabel

do you believe the FBI falsified its inventory of the documents seized?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Other than the big red and yellow borders and the words “secret”, “top secret” and “SCI.”

oh in that staged picture on the floor that the fbi created?

could be just a cover sheet with nothing underneath who knows once you “stage” a picture.

Or do you think all that was just laying on the floor like that when they showed up?

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

if nothing is classified then it’s just a simple records dispute between an ex president and a national librarian group.

Oh, if only claiming made it so.

On a related note; if a doughnut had no hole, it would be a danish.

Sadly, for trump anyway, claiming something doesn’t make it so. And there’s rather a lot of evidence that trump is, how to put it mildly, lying his ass off.

And again, the classification level makes it more urgent, but legally doesn’t matter. This is textbook obstruction and Espionage Act violations.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

donald was at his golf course near DC but not playing golf. He was dressed in golf clothes and was surrounded by a bunch of people none of whom were playing golf.

Looks like someone is extremely paranoid and doesn’t want his conversations to be overheard!!!

8 ( +9 / -1 )

And this is just 1 of the 4, soon to be 5 criminal investigations into Trump currently going on in addition to civil trials out the wazoo, some of which could turn criminal.

Hope his lawyers got paid up front.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Blacklabel

the court released an inventory from the FBI, a list of the seized documents.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LMMBNbuMCn6phMbnKcP01PFO6zlcq483/view

Do you believe it was falsified?

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Or do you think all that was just laying on the floor like that when they showed up?

Its a standard FBI picture. They took a pic in-situ, then they lay out the evidence for a more organized picture. Just like when they bus counterfeit items, just like when they make a drug bust.

Suggesting that the picture was somehow staged is just moronic.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Whoopsie! 30+ New DOJ subpoenas in the 1/6 investigation.

Several had their phones seized.

Pauly Shore on meth Steven Miller got one.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Former President Donald Trump’s lawyers on Monday dismissed as a “storage dispute” Trump’s retention of top-secret documents at his Florida home, urging a judge to keep in place a directive that temporarily halted key aspects of the Justice Department’s criminal probe.

HA! Stealing Top Secret/SCI and Special Access Program documents from a secure vaulted area and keeping them in cartons in your closet, desk, and in the BATHROOM is nothing but a "storage dispute" - if that's the best this ragtag team of lawyers can do, Trump ought to buy his orange jumpsuit now...

The Trump team also referred to the documents that were seized as “purported ‘classified records,’” suggesting his lawyers do not concede the Justice Department’s contention that highly sensitive, top-secret information was found by the FBI in its Aug. 8 search of Mar-a-Lago.

Hmmm.....just last week these same lawyers filed a response to the DOJ saying it was to be expected CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS would be found with Presidential records...

But Trump's lawyers said in their own motion Monday that Cannon should not permit the FBI to resume its review of classified records.

And now they've flipped again and ADMITTING the docs were classified...

The Trump team proposed either Raymond Dearie, a retired judge in the federal court based in Brooklyn, or prominent Florida lawyer Paul Huck, Jr. The lawyers said the arbiter should have access to the entire tranche of documents and should be able to evaluate executive privilege claims.

Trump's first choice was Putin but he had to decline - kind'a busy at the moment...

In its filing Monday, the Trump team again voiced a broad view of presidential power, asserting that a president has an “unfettered right of access" to his presidential records and absolute authority to declassify any information without the “approval of bureaucratic components of the executive branch" — though it did not say, as Trump has maintained, that he had actually declassified them.

What a farce - note "though it did not say, as Trump has maintained, that he had actually declassified them." Once again, when they are under oath and stand before a judge, Trump's lawyers have to fess up and tell the truth - why didn't they tell the court that Trump declassified all of them? Because they knew it's a lie and could get them cited for contempt... Just ask Rudy - "This is not a fraud case".....

No amount of legal maneuvering can get past the fact that Trump took highly sensitive classified documents that were never to leave a secure vaulted area, and kept them for two years in his closet - then lied in Jun when he certified in writing that "there are no longer any classified docs at Mar-A-Lago" - when in fact there were over 100...

Trump is toast...

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Trump's lawyers in court are not claiming he declassified the documents. They are also stating an ex-president has an absolute right to have access to government documents.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Wallace,

If they claimed in court under oath that the docs had been magically declassified and then it was proven not to be true (as it inevitably would be), they would be sanctioned including the possibility of losing their license to practice law.

That’s why. That’s also why nobody actually claimed fraud in court in the scam voter fraud plot.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

huge walk back from what this was claimed to be if that’s all it is.

“And the criminal statutes that the department has used as the basis of its investigation, including one criminalizing the willful retention of national defense information, do not actually require that the records be classified.”

Let’s try again. The basis of its investigation.

Not a walk back from anything.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Suggesting that the picture was somehow staged is just moronic.

It’s the exact definition of a “staged” picture.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

He had documents that didn’t belong to him. (That’s theft of government property.)They belonged to the United States Government. The government requested then demanded their return. 

Trump’s lawyers (such as they are) swore an affidavit that all classified docs had been given back. They weren’t. (That’s fraud and lying to the FBI.) 

11,000 government docs that didn’t belong to him. Some of them highly classified that he couldn’t legally read, much less possess. And he had some of them in his office (even more poorly secured that the storage closet) in his damn desk.(That’s obstruction.)

 And no, there is no evidence that they were declassified. No Documentation, no witnesses (credible witnesses), not even someone who had even heard of such a system. 18 senior members of his cabinet including a former chief of staff say no such system for declassification by default existed

There were docs on the nuclear capability of another nation which will give hints about what we know and what we dont. What we can find out and what we cannot. And good luck getting our Allies to share intel with us now… 

Whether they were actual “nuclear codes” is irrelevant (and that really seems like the kinda thing that DOD would have changed about 12:01 PM January 20th )

No credible legal scholar including former federal judges who are NOT judge box-of-wine thinks that this judge ruled in accordance With the facts or law and the majority of them think the DOJ should appeal as do I. 

These are all known or at least knowable facts. 

It seems likely but is not guaranteed that a DOJ appeal would at minimum result in a significant revision of the ruling. 

Also likely but not guaranteed are indictments for obstruction, Espionage Act violations and possibly Presidential Records Act violations.  

And this doesn’t even consider the other 3 - perhaps 4 criminal investigations for which Cheeto Jesus is at minimum a subject. 

And he seems to think that he can nod nod, wink wink “It would be a real shame if the country exploded, wouldn’t it?” and just slink away?

Nope. There is going to be a reckoning. Oh yes, there will be a reckoning.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

North American Politics has become an Open "Conspiracy Theory", each side is against each other and will do whatever it takes to gain one up upon the other, at the expense of the People they are supposed to represent.

Why can't the North American people see this ?

Are they so "dumb ass" - "TikTok" addicted, and so blind, that they are unable to think independently as individuals - and see things as they really are ?

Now is the time, Globally, for peoples to see what they see, and tell what they see and, should they be able to vote for a leader, to vote, the way that they feel.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It’s the exact definition of a “staged” picture.

Staged as in “presenting evidence that they didn’t find.”

Don't be thick. Nobody with a functioning brain thinks this was anything more than the FBI laying out what they found in a more organized fashion.

If this is the argument you are down to, you are really out of luck.

He did it. The FBI has him by the short hairs and he’s not getting out of it

4 ( +7 / -3 )

“Bobby Chacon, a retired FBI agent, told Insider that the photo was indeed staged — but for a "legitimate purpose."

oh of course it was. A legitimate purpose…riiiiiight. That legitimate purpose being….what?

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

oh of course it was. A legitimate purpose…riiiiiight. That legitimate purpose being….what?

Um, to show, in an organized fashion, the totality of the evidence of Trump’s guilt of felony offenses that they found at his residence as a result of the lawful search warrant that it executed.

Seems as though everyone gets this simple concept but you.

It’s a bit pathetic actually that you’re still going down this dead end.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

yeah I organize my things by throwing supposed classified documents into a pile on the floor next to some TIME Magazine covers. sure thing.

anyway, good luck proving all this. Trump has no burden of proof for anything, its the raiders that have to prove their allegations.

I see no more proof of anything than the day of the raid more than 5 weeks ago.

I dont know why you keep claiming they didnt say in court the documents arent classified. Its in the first part of the article here

his lawyers do not concede the Justice Department’s contention that highly sensitive, top-secret information was found by the FBI in its Aug. 8 search of Mar-a-Lago.

Not going well for you so far when you have to spend your posts disparaging the judge as a supposed alcoholic that "no one else" supposedly agrees with.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

So, he declassified them in secret!

No wait, the FBI planted them!

No wait, they were his personal documents!

They were perfectly safe in his office which he keeps meet as a whistle because there are people in and out of there all the time (per his lawyer.)

Would you guys like a moment to get your lies, er… “story” straight?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

no staged as in, you know, staged.

Once again a dictionary. As I have never met someone in my entire life who misuses almost daily the actual meaning of words as you do.

planned, organized, or arranged in advance (often of an event or situation intended to seem otherwise).

"they have suggested that the entire episode was a staged event"

The picture of the documents is intended to seem as if this is location and condition in which these documents were originally found. Clearly they were found elsewhere, arranged in advance and organized (your word) in this way as part of a plan. Where is the picture of where the documents were actually found?

Some guy keeps saying in the bathroom. Were they?

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

And 30 new subpoenas. Drip, drip, drip.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Trump had Top Secrets of foreign nuclear capabilities in his country club?!

He has to be investigated for espionage regardless of whether he did it ignorantly or knowingly.

Unprecedented is right!

8 ( +9 / -1 )

In the words of Kurumazaka,

yeah, to more efficiently display seized evidence. Dang, that was hard to figure out…

This seems beyond your ability to understand, which is not really that surprising.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The picture of the documents is intended to seem as if this is location and condition in which these documents were originally found.

You mean like when agents seize illegal drugs and line them up for a photo? Intended to seem as if that was the location these drugs were found?

Nobody is that stupid. Come on. Let's stop the sophistry, shall we?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

All this hoohaa is so reminiscent of all the other confected outrage charges and allegations brought against Orange. Lots of heat and light but very little forward motion.

I guess the walls are closing in on him again.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So Trump kept over 280 classified documents, some TS/SCI and SAP, insecure in cartons in his closet for over two years....

Now we learn that Trump had 87 foreign national workers at Mar-A-Lago last year and wants to hire 91 this year....

*Mar-a-Lago, former president Donald Trump’s private club-cum-legal residence at the center of an investigation into his handling of classified government documents, has relied on temporary foreign workers to keep the sprawling estate humming. Last year, the Trump Organization sought 87 foreign workers for the Palm Beach property, up from 78 a few years earlier. This year, Mar-a-Lago is looking to *bring on 91 temporary foreign workers. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2022/08/10/mar-a-lago-is-looking-to-hire-91-foreign-workers-this-year/?sh=63ed4b6c49fc

So all our most sensitive secrets were right there in the closet for all the 87 foreign maids, housekeepers, and dish washers to copy or steal. Maybe we now know why those classified folders were empty. Who knows how many of these foreigners were actually Russian, Chinese, Iranian, or Saudi agents or proxies,,,

No wonder the FBI raided his classified stash....

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Blacklabel

There has been no proof to date that in fact these documents that were once classified still are.

Actually, there is. First of all they have the markings of Top Secret and SCI on them. If they were declassified, those markings would be removed. Secondly, it has been reported that one of the documents have secrets about another nation's nuclear capability, clearly something that would be classified.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Blacklabel

I dont know why you keep claiming they didnt say in court the documents arent classified. Its in the first part of the article here

Because they don't say anywhere that Trump declassified the documents. If he did, why don't they say it? They also don't deny that there may be classified documents. If they think there aren't any classified documents, why not say it?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Second para of this article clearly indicates they are not classified.

The Trump team also referred to the documents that were seized as “purported ‘classified records,’” suggesting his lawyers do not concede the Justice Department’s contention that highly sensitive, top-secret information was found by the FBI in its Aug. 8 search of Mar-a-Lago

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Purported:

appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so; alleged.

so now think what “purported classified documents” would mean.

As in those documents you keep alleging are classified- that we say are not. Right in the court filing. Not classified.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Pathetic loser Donnnny, now what are you going to do to evade justice?..

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Yes in a twenty one page court filing to the judge. What else you expecting?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Well yeah that’s the same logic used to claim antifa doesn’t exist either so ok, sure thing.

But the Actual conversation not some random deflection.

. If they think there aren't any classified documents, why not say it?

me: they did. Article says they wrote it in a court filing to the judge.

not seeing how that is not “saying it”

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

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