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Trump warns conservatives against 'socialist nightmare' in fiery 2-hour speech

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By Nicolas Kamm

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"We believe in the American dream, not in the socialist nightmare," he said to boisterous applause...

He comes out with this rambling garbage that's basically just a re-hash of his tweets, and these people applaud.

On Friday, Vice President Mike Pence spoke at the four-day conference to warn the faithful that Democrats are taking a "hard left turn" ahead of 2020.

"Under the guise of Medicare for All and a Green New Deal, Democrats are embracing the same tired economic theories that have impoverished nations and stifled the liberties of millions over the last century. That system is socialism," he said.*

Socialism seems to work just fine in northern Europe and Scandinavia but It's pretty much guaranteed that if the likes of Trump and Pence were running a socialist state they'd find ways to screw it up for everyone else while lining their own pockets and those of their friends.

25 ( +27 / -2 )

A two-hour Castro-esque stream-of-consciousness expletive-laden rant, railing against a pantheon of perceived "enemies" during which he hugs the flag like it's a woman.

Yeah, and everyone is else is "sick," right.

25 ( +29 / -4 )

The paralyzing fear of immigrants seems to waning.

Next up in the politics of fear: The commies. I await enlightening posts about how Bernie, Kamala and Beto are the equivalent of Joe Stalin and the original Mao-chan. This will do little expand his base. Talking about free education and medicare for all and more stringent rules on predatory disaster capitalism will, if the democrats are wise enough to embrace such ideas, build our party, not his.

Once he figures out that Americans have tired of him personally, as well as GOP policies that are all about expanding the wealth of 1%ers and corporations, there will be one remaining option ahead of next year's elections, starting a war.

As Matt Taibbi put some years back about Fox audiences:

[They've] been trained that the rich are not appropriate targets for anger, unless of course they’re Hollywood liberals, or George Soros, or in some other way linked to some acceptable class of villain, to liberals, immigrants, atheists, etc. But actual rich people can’t ever be the target. It’s a classic peasant mentality: going into fits of groveling and bowing whenever the master’s carriage rides by, then fuming against the Turks in Crimea or the Jews in the Pale or whoever after spending fifteen hard hours in the fields. You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your s--t. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. When you get frisky, he sticks a big cross in the middle of your village, and you spend the rest of your life praying to it with big googly eyes. Or he puts out newspapers full of innuendo about this or that faraway group and you immediately salute and rush off to join the hate squad. A good peasant is loyal, simpleminded, and full of misdirected anger. And that’s what we’ve got now, a lot of misdirected anger searching around for a non-target to mis-punish…

15 ( +16 / -1 )

A two and a half hour campfire story slash urban legend, told by a man who is the real villain of the times.

This speech, and those that have been covered for CPAC so far, paint a very simple tale: The 'conservative movement,' as it currently exists, is one that can only continue based off of fear. Fear of change, fear of others, fear even of yourselves.

Look at the picture. A man, who dodged the draft, who cheats the system, who spits in the very face of the office he holds, hugging the American flag like he actually cares about it.

And his followers believe him for it. Because he speaks to their fears. He tells them that it's okay to be afraid, that they're right to be so. That if they just believe in him, in his lies, in his deceit, in his moral bankruptcy... that he'll protect them.

Today, Donald Trump literally hugged the American flag. Meanwhile, his actions over his entire 72 years of life show that he has more often wiped his backside with it and then blown his nose with the US Constitution... and his supporters don't care.

18 ( +19 / -1 )

*A good Trumpophile is loyal, simpleminded, and full of misdirected anger. And that’s what we’ve got now, a lot of misdirected anger searching around for a non-target to mis-punish…*

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Trump is right. Socialism is just a few steps from Communism. It would never work, high taxes, increased welfare spending on people who choose to not work, increased medical cost, too high salaries for companies to pay, expensive goods and services, the list goes on.

Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!

-23 ( +2 / -25 )

The services of doctors in the UK are available free of charge on the National Health Service (NHS) to all UK residents. I hear they also reimburse you for the parking fee when you visit a general practitioner. So they pay for everything except for the medicine. In Japan, we pay 30% which is not bad. Is socialist medicine really that bad?

Of course this comes from one’s salary earnings and through taxes. Quality of care aside, would one receive a better deal through private care in the US?

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!

You can find out at the link below showing GDP per capita.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_byGDP(PPP)_per_capita

11 ( +11 / -0 )

What’s the greatest, most successful Socialist country to ever exist?

The next one...

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!

Americans work long hours; Japanese are at work for long hours. Efficiency is key.

As for your screed regarding Sweden and Norway, look to their quality of life, not the size of their economy. By your metric, China is a far better place than Norway or Sweden. Try using Google or LINE in China without a VPN.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Gee, I watched the speech and I thought I heard him sat this;

"We believe in the FASCIST dream, not in the American nightmare," he said to boisterous applause from hundreds of supporters at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) near Washington.

"America will never be a DEMOCRATIC country," Trump added in a mammoth two-hour speech that seemed to draw energy from the fervent reception offered by some of his RUSSIAN HOODWINKED supporters in the room.

He said progressive healthcare policies would "lead to colossal SAVINGS OF LIVES."

"We're in the swamp of Washington DC, but you know what -- we're winning and they're not - BECAUSE WE ARE DISGUSTING SWAMP CREATURES - LIKE MY BUDDY MANAFORT AND STONE ."

As is usual at these CPAC events, the far right crazies compete to see who can out-crazy the other.

The picture of Trump disrespectfully humping the flag is a perfect metaphor for his Presidency - he's screwing us all....

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Hmm. Does this mean that Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, CHIPS, and all other social programs that are so popular with voters are now on the GOP chopping block?

Good luck with that.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Socialism seems to work just fine in northern Europe and Scandinavia

People often say this, but Sweden is not socialist at all. They have high taxes and generous benefits. But they have no minimum wage, and provide vouchers for education so that kids can go to a private school of their choice. It's also worth noting that their wealth was built up mostly before these programs all came into being - so it's also quite possible that they will run out of money eventually. A wealthy country can get away with a lot of non-productive spending for a long time, generations even, before the tills run dry.

While it's fine for people who don't have kids, I don't want to leave future generations in a deep hole of debt just to make our current life easier. That's selfish and irresponsible on the most basic level.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

Vernon WattsToday 07:36 am JST

And by-the-way, I didn't hear you praise Cuba or Venezuela as models of socialism.

That's right, I didn't.

Let's hear it, you will say they are run by dictators -- but pray tell weren't they duly elected?

They are indeed run by dictators. So? Donald Trump was also duly elected.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Socialism seems to work just fine in northern Europe and Scandinavia

.

People often say this, but Sweden is not socialist at all.

Hmm, I hadn't realized that Northern Europe and Scandinavia only consisted of a single country.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Trump is 100% right. What you guys don’t see is that the socialism that is warning about is the kind that is closer to US: the South American one that is already inside US territory in the voice of some Democrats. Not the Right-center Scandinavian socialism Americans of Latino ascendency think that US is an enemy (even if they’re born in US), because that’s what the likes of Chavez, Maduro, Lula, Dilma, Ortega, and all Mexicans Presidents have been sowing for decades. If you don’t abandon this hatred for Trump’s person and embrace America’s conservative mind that has made your country rich, free and prosperous, you will wake up soon to a President that will implement the horror in economy and politics. Open your eyes, guys. Venezuela was that third richest country in Latin America less than 20 years ago. Now, they have no food, no medicines, not even toilet paper. Thanks to socialism.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

200 million dead and 2 billion in abject poverty from socialism, sounds like a nightmare to me

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

200 million dead and 2 billion in abject poverty from socialism, sounds like a nightmare to me

300million dead and 2.5 billion in abject poverty from capitalism. Sounds even worse!

11 ( +12 / -1 )

I apologize, Strangerland. I simply don't have the time to go over every single country in Northern Europe, but instead chose one that is typically cited. I answered an entirely vague assertion with a specific contrary example. However, you are quite welcome to cover each country in detail yourself. I will look forward to your treatise.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

@vernon watts People in those counties are lethargic and God help them if they would put in more than 6 hours of work a day....Whats wrong with only wanting to work 6 hours a day myself I think 5 is enough it gives me time for the important things in life like playing with my kids...so if you want to slave away for the man the only human rights violation that is going on is to yourself..

@gambare japan Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!

Where are Sweden and Norway they are happier than America and Japan that is where they are..

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Not all Americans work long hours. I stopped working over 50 hrs a week in 1999. Most of the time, I worked exactly 40 hrs a week in the early 2000s as an hourly contractor. In 2007, I started working less than 20 hrs a week. My time off is more important than the pay. It is about quality of life. Time with family and friends doing fun things. I won't formally retire for another 15 yrs, BTW. We aren't 1%'ers either, but we are FIRE https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/style/fire-financial-independence-retire-early.html

There are multiple American dreams. One is dependent on the govt and the other wants the govt to keep out of their lives. One expects the govt to take care of them all their lives and the other wants to be responsible for their life and the lives of their family members.

The idea of what is "fair" is different between these 2 American dreams. Using govt programs is embarrassing for 1 group and it is "owed" if you talk to another group.

Ask not what your country can do for youask what you can do for your country,”

Socialism fits for 1 group, but not the other.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

There are multiple American dreams. One is dependent on the govt and the other wants the govt to keep out of their lives. One expects the govt to take care of them all their lives and the other wants to be responsible for their life and the lives of their family members.

This is a false duality; life is far more nuanced than this binary situation.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Not all Americans work long hours. I stopped working over 50 hrs a week in 1999. Most of the time, I worked exactly 40 hrs a week in the early 2000s as an hourly contractor. In 2007, I started working less than 20 hrs a week. My time off is more important than the pay. It is about quality of life. Time with family and friends doing fun things. I won't formally retire for another 15 yrs, BTW. We aren't 1%'ers either, but we are FIRE https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/style/fire-financial-independence-retire-early.html

But due to the extreme income discrepancy in America, there are tens of millions who are unable to achieve this dream. Yours literally is an American dream - these people know they will never be able to move up in class and see that dream for themselves.

There are multiple American dreams. One is dependent on the govt and the other wants the govt to keep out of their lives. One expects the govt to take care of them all their lives and the other wants to be responsible for their life and the lives of their family members.

And this is you vocalizing the brainwashing you've been conditioned to believe.

Believe it or not, there actually is a middle ground between that, where the people want the government to provide a social safety net, and base social services, while having the government keep out of their personal lives. These people live in the socialist countries we've been talking about. You've clearly never talked with these people, you've simply applied your own cultural lens to people who are not of your culture.

Ask not what your country can do for youask what you can do for your country,”

And there's your problem. No one-sided relationship is ever good. The above is extremist - the country has all the obligation to the people, the people have zero obligation to the country. This is why you have your gun problem - the people are too selfish to give up their guns for the greater good.

A balanced statement is "ask how you and your country can work together for mutual success".

People who live in happy countries with low income-disparity and a high quality of living will tell you which of the two above statements they would agree more with.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Gambare Japan--

Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And have the lowest wages among the developed OECD surveyed countries in the world. Many Japanese have to work long at 2 to 3 part time jobs without benefits to survive. By the time they pay for food, rent and other living costs, they don't have enough to pay the health insurance and pension payments.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

All that socialism aside, we have this:

Right now we have people in Congress that hate our country and you know that. And we can name every one of ’em if they want. They hate our country. Sad. It’s very sad. When I see some of the things being made, the statements being made, it’s very, very sad.

2019 has not been a good year for Trump, and not only are the walls continuing to close in, this speech is another example of his clearly declining mental health. This is where the cornered animal gets dangerous: now he's "otherizing" fellow Americans. He's resorting to McCarthyism.

And it will get worse.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Lost-in - Nagoya,

Venezuela was that third richest country in Latin America less than 20 years ago. Now, they have no food, no medicines, not even toilet paper. Thanks to socialism.---------------

No, thanks to sanctions by USA ! They have the largest reserves of oil in the world that they can't export, their assets in USA seized and Britain won't give them their own gold back.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Most western democratic countries and the US as much as they dislike the words are social democracies.

I mean, the government ensuring a certain level of prosperity, education and health for all people... I don't get what sounds so terrible about it. Will a few people abuse some of the services if not carefully administered.. sure but isn't that better than desperate starving people, minor medical issues that turn into expensive emergencies and a less educated working class?

I have had multiple offers to go to the US to work and live, I don't want to.. and this all me me me, its ok for a CEO to earn 1000 times the lowest income worker, having to tip people rather than a business paying a living wage, if you don't manage to snag a good job with great benefits some things are out of your reach.. (sounds like servitude to me).. it just feels wrong.

Having grown up in a single mother welfare house Im certainly very glad I grew up in NZ, and had clear opportunities to better my station in life, and not by some 1 in a million business chance "dream" but because a system is in place to ensure a base level of services. (some of which have been eroded sadly)

I do believe in success for effort and even luck just simply don't think the gaps need to be so large, and that all people should want their country people to be able to go to the doctor, eat and a chance to do better.

I can't remember the name of the original idea, but that peoples ideas for how a society and its rules work would be very different if they didn't know who they were going to be, what race, how much money they start with, what job they have, what gender they are, if they are born citizens or trying naturalize.. if only we could all think that way.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Scandinavia succeeds predominantly because it's full of Scandinavians, not because they've discovered some magic ratio of tax rates and welfare payments which allow socialism to work everywhere. These are high IQ, high trust, largely homogenous societies with low populations and pre-existing wealth. If you were to copy ever law on the books in Sweden and enact it wholesale in South America, Africa or the United States, you're unlikely to replicate Scandinavia.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Helix, doesn't mean you can't work towards it or the general values can't be applied... and also your comment and perhaps your not aware has some overtones of xenophobia.. and possibly white superiority ... that didn't work out too well for the world last time people started talking like that.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Scandinavia succeeds predominantly because it's full of Scandinavians, not because they've discovered some magic ratio of tax rates and welfare payments which allow socialism to work everywhere. 

Then how do you explain Canada?

Your guys’ arguments always fall apart because you’re speaking the words you’ve been conditioned to believe, rather than the truth.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Trump is mostly a caretaker President.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Then how do you explain Canada?

Canada is not a socialist country by any reasonable definition. The healthcare system has been socialised, but that's common in all developed countries. Canada's personal tax rates are not high compared to OECD averages, and their corporate taxes are even lower than the US. Canada ranks below the US on social spending as a percentage of GDP and on a per capita basis. Canada even spends less than Japan on a per capita basis. If you think Canada is socialist, which country isn't? How do the US and Japan fall short of your definition of socialism?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Canada is a socialist democracy. But

more importantly, whenever Americans criticize a policy they call Socialist, it’s soemthing that Canada is doing. The comparison is relevant. The things Americans condemn as socialist can be found in socialist countries that have a better standard of life than Americans, then socialism, and the rest of the world shake our heads at the morons who repeat their conditioning and expect we’d be stupid enough to do the same.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

If I'm allowed to post a link, this is a table of social welfare spending my country. In 2013 Canada spent $7,506 per capita on its citizens. Japan $8,442. America $9,838 and Scandinavia between $12-14,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

How do the US and Japan fall short of your definition of socialism?

Actually they don’t. I’ve said straight up on this site that japan is socialist. And America too, but their socialism is to the military, not to the people.

But it’s not my definition of socialism that matters. It’s the definition used by those Americans like Trump whom are condemning it.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Helix: you aren’t expecting us to draw a conclusion from those.numbers are you?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

And the truth shall set you free! Say NO to socialism and far right progressive Democrats!

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

NO to socialism and far right progressive Democrats!

Yes! Respond in fear to trigger words!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Your guys’ arguments always fall apart because you’re speaking the words you’ve been conditioned to believe, rather than the truth.

Pot...kettle. Kettle...pot. Don't you ever wonder who is controlling the stove that gets you so heated up?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Have you seen, “It’s a Wonderful Life?” Trump’s vision of America is the one full of unhappy people who can’t make ends meet, controlled by the rich.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Not all aspects if govt control (so called 'socialism') are bad if implemented wisely. I would support a $15 minimum wage and single payer medical insurance as these work well in other economically prosperous nations like Australia and Japan.

However the extreme left economic and social policies of AOC, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren etc. would be a disaster.

Drain the swamp President Trump.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Pot...kettle. Kettle...pot. Don't you ever wonder who is controlling the stove that gets you so heated up?

I control it I grew up in multiple countries of varying political systems. I’m very clear on which parts of my personality are cultural conditioning and which are not.

But you are clearly making claims about the motivations of people with whom it is very clear you have never directly communicated. On top of this your comments are very clearly American cultural conditioning. And every argument you make against “socialism” can very clearly be proven wrong with real examples.

So no, it’s most definitely not the pot calling the kettle black. It’s me pointing out ridiculous American claims that people have been brainwashed into believing.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Helix,

Scandinavia succeeds predominantly because it's full of Scandinavians, not because they've discovered some magic ratio of tax rates and welfare payments which allow socialism to work everywhere. These are high IQ, high trust, largely homogenous societies with low populations and pre-existing wealth.

According to Statistics Sweden, in 2017, around 3,193,089 (31.5%) inhabitants of Sweden were of a foreign background,  i.e., born abroad or born in Sweden with at least one parent born abroad.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Concerned CitizenToday 10:46 am JST

Drain the swamp President Trump.

You... do know that's just something he said, don't you?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I grew up in multiple countries of varying political systems. I’m very clear on which parts of my personality are cultural conditioning and which are 

I doubt that. Very few people are. In fact, accepting that most of your opinions are cultural/social conditioning is a good start. Mine, yours, everyone's...

But you are clearly making claims about the motivations of people with whom it is very clear you have never directly communicated. 

What claims? And how would you know who I directly communicate with? Most of them would share your opinions, so I am pretty used to being around people who I don't agree with politically, and unlike them, that isolation means I cannot be in the same thought bubble they are in.

And every argument you make against “socialism” can very clearly be proven wrong with real examples.

This would be never ending. But suffice to say, governments will always want to grow and will always become corrupt as they do. Any counter arguments to that are simply not using a long-enough time frame. Like the guy who jumps from 80th floor and halfway down says "so far, so good."

 It’s me pointing out ridiculous American claims that people have been brainwashed into believing.

Yes, Americans are mostly brainwashed. On both sides of the spectrum. It's sad to see.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

I'd rather socialism than fascism.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

As the noise of previous "bogeyman scares" drift away - Mexico-Mexico-Mexico et al - the new Devil to re-appear after an extended holiday is the Socialist/Commmunist/ Commie/Red apocalypse descending upon us.

Trump's blurts equating the Chaos that is Venezuela with US is what is scarey.

And just had to shake my head in disbelief the other day, when the "lauded 3" announcers on Fox were discussing AOC's plan to pay her lowly paid junior staff more. Where's the money coming from they asked? Well the salary of her senior assitant/adviser ($150,000+/yr) will be cut and the juniors will recieve a rise.

The lauded 3 just denounced this as money sharing - That's Communism. They actually said that - and agreed like see, this is the beginning of the end.

This regime is beyond clutching at straws, it's gawn.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

governments will always want to grow and will always become corrupt as they do

This libertarian trope is becoming tiresome. Corruption isn’t limited to government and Scandinavian governments are noted for lack of corruption and transparency.

The problem is not government itself, it’s apathy on the part of electorates who don’t demand better.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

He comes out with this rambling garbage that's basically just a re-hash of his tweets, and these people applaud. 

Yes, if it makes liberals a tad angry, it’s probably a pretty good thing.

Socialism seems to work just fine in northern Europe and Scandinavia

They can keep it and I mean that sincerely, we don’t need it. And if Socialism is so great then why aren’t the socialists in America not storming the gates of Venezuela or Cuba, Bernie was a huge fan of that Hugo Chavez humble man, so why not go?

but It's pretty much guaranteed that if the likes of Trump and Pence were running a socialist state they'd find ways to screw it up for everyone else while lining their own pockets and those of their friends.

Thank God for Capitalism

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

Trump warns conservatives against 'socialist nightmare' in fiery 2-hour speech

I can imagine the number of people ending up with butt sores.

he suggested that his call in summer of 2016 for Russia to find and release Hillary Clinton's emails was a joke that had been obtusely taken at face value by the media.

Sure, of course. Now that we all know he knew about Wikileaks and the imminent leak. Sure.

This man-child is the one who hates the country. Every deal done with SA, China, and most probably NK must include private financial deals with his family. Christ, his followers are either blind, deaf, stupid or backstabbers. (No offence to the blind and deaf).

It is now 2019, and they're still shouting out "Look her up." This smacks of desperation.

Yeah, lock 'em all up. As a non-American, I need more popcorn.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

This libertarian trope is becoming tiresome. Corruption isn’t limited to government and Scandinavian governments are noted for lack of corruption and transparency.

Nobody said it was. But governments have a monopoly on the legal use of violence and coercion. Apple can't throw me in prison for not buying their products. The US is already way beyond any acceptable norms of corruption. Interesting that Sweden is actually moving away from its more socialist policies in recent years - maybe because they are more "open and transparent?"

By the way, where are people being "conditioned" to support libertarianism? I'd consider moving there.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

A poorly-educated and foolish man.

Trump's not even the rabid dog he thinks he is, he's boring.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

And if Socialism is so bad, why are countries like Canada so much better places to live than America?

That’s a matter of opinion, I don’t think so, been to Canada over a dozen times, I wouldn’t trade it, if people like it good for them. I do like their Poutine though. Nice country, but they keep their cold and their socialist ways, I prefer the warm beach and Capitalism.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Thank God for Capitalism

Which allows the elite to stamp on the people, again and again.

And if Socialism is so great then why aren’t the socialists in America not storming the gates of Venezuela or Cuba,

Socialism has worked in Ireland, Canada, Finland, Denmark, Spain just fine, thanks. Not to mention the NHS in the UK.

Like capitalism, it is unfortunately twisted by power hungry individuals. But it's a damn sight more aspirational, at the least.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

It is interesting to read these articles, Trump's words, and the comments that follow. I have been reading and listening to Chris Hedges recently and found one of his books, "America: The Farewell Tour" to be interesting. He does a very good job of explaining how we ended up with Trump through the progression from neo-conservatism to neo-liberalism and explains how the neo-liberal part of the Democratic party (i.e. Clinton) resulted in Trump's election. This is backed up with conversations with people in regions who thought the Democratic party lost touch with the working class.

His rationalization for socialism is interesting and he makes very good points. Due to greed and likely human nature, Capitalism has run amok and is failing the average American (I am saying this as a believer in Capitalism...with proper checks and balances and socialist principles applied to ensure the betterment of society - primarily related to health care).

My biggest fear is there will be another backlash; this time against Trump (I would argue rightfully so) but my fear is that it will be more and more extreme.

The United States is terribly divided and I fear we are at the point or have passed the point of repair; barring some radical event. His thoughts are interesting (I do not agree with him 100%) but are very relevant to Trump's recent speech and what is being debated on this website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPk9HSLagVg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCDd3VoAFUs

2 ( +4 / -2 )

However the extreme left economic and social policies of AOC, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren etc. would be a disaster.

I never cease to be amazed by comments like that. Sure, one might call them left-leaning but "extreme", lol. Some people need to see the world a bit more.

The indoctrination in the US is genuinely terrifying. It's almost like (some) don't want to educate themselves.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

And of course, socialism isn't new. We see examples of it from a millennia or two, ago. The New Testament, Buddhism, Plato's Republic, to name but a few.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

There are various kinds of socialism and there are various kinds of capitalism. Most countries in the world, including the United States, have a certain mixture of both.

It is disgusting for Trump and his team to reduce the discourse to simplistic platitudes like "capitalism = good, socialism = bad". Manipulating feeble-minded Americans with this kind of crap is destructive and immoral. It's the tactic of opportunists who don't have any real ideas to convince people with.

Wanna talk about taxes? No problem. Spending. Fine. Let's have a discussion. I'm just not interested in extremist polemic on either side.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

McCarthyism lives - we should have seen this one coming. Whoever the 2020 Democratic candidate is, is a commie. Right.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Which allows the elite to stamp on the people, again and again.

Yeah, so if the socialism is so great, then why are all these caravans desperately trying to get into the US? They could trek to Cuba or even Canada. Hey, they have free healthcare and free stuff.

Socialism has worked in Ireland, Canada, Finland, Denmark, Spain just fine, thanks. Not to mention the NHS in the UK.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/millennials-socialism/

Far from learning the truth — that America has been the greatest force for freedom in the history of humankind, while creating unparalleled wealth for its citizens — students today are relentlessly drilled with a progressive catechism of guilt over America's long-admitted shortcomings and history.

The result: a generation raised on moral equivalency, diversity and a jaundiced view of their nation's own past. A generation of Americans that hate their own culture, even as hundreds of millions around the world dream of coming to this land of opportunity and freedom.

Millennials today seem to be disgusted with a country that provides them with more opportunities than any country in history.

Like capitalism, it is unfortunately twisted by power hungry individuals. But it's a damn sight more aspirational, at the least.

That’s your personal opinion. I vehemently disagree. I grew up half of my life in Europe, sorry, I’ll take the standard of living in the US over Europe any day of the year.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!

average Swede and Norwegian has far more wealth than the average Japanaese, average Japanese wealth doesnt ever rank in the top 25 .

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The indoctrination in the US is genuinely terrifying. It's almost like (some) don't want to educate themselves.

and this is why Trump loves the poorly educated and they love him.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I’ll take the standard of living in the US over Europe any day of the year

I’d take the standard of living in the US over, say, Bulgaria, but I’d take the Swedish standard of living over the US.

Europe is made up of nearly 50 countries. You should know this having spent half your life there.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

So people purposely don’t want to live in a “better place”?

There must be a reason why thousands of people a day are caught illegally crossing OUR border and overstaying OUR visas, not just passing through on the way to Canada.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Americans and Japanese are famous for working long hours, with few holidays, and are the 1st and 3rd (soon to be 2nd) economies in the world. Where is Sweden and Norway? LOL!

Makes sense, they have about 8 million people or so, so they can affford more leisure time. We have 320 million, we have the biggest financial district on the planet, military complex. When Sweden and Norway need help, we protect them. So they can afford to kick back and they don’t mind paying up the rear high taxes, most Americans do not. Again, like Sweden, love Pipi, their meatballs and even Sürstromming, but I don’t want my country to be like them, but I’ll always enjoy flying up to partake in their delectable lingonberry jam.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

I’d take the standard of living in the US over, say, Bulgaria, but I’d take the Swedish standard of living over the US. 

And I totally respect that. I speak the language, the people are very nice, but again, another cold country, no thank you.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

"America will never be a socialist country," Trump added in a mammoth two-hour speech

Except it already is, when you consider all of the Federal and State government bailouts, tax-breaks, and judicial gerrymandering gleefully thrown at corporations to ensure that they get wealth redistributed towards them. However, the general voting masses of the US shall not be offered the same as corporations - as that's "socialism" which is totally unacceptable in the Republican / GOP vernacular, as the general voting masses aren't considered as "job creators."

5 ( +5 / -0 )

they have about 8 million people or so, so they can affford more leisure time. We have 320 million, we have the biggest financial district on the planet, military complex. When Sweden and Norway need help, we protect them. So they can afford to kick back

= Americans are too busy making war machines and fighting. They have no time to relax.

they don’t mind paying up the rear high taxes, most Americans do not

Americans would rather go into debt or bankruptcy to pay for healthcare and a college education.

I speak the language, the people are very nice, but again, another cold country, no thank you.

Some of us feel the same way about Minnesota.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The biggest reason why Trump will never be a respected President in my eyes is that he is too immature and doesn't know how to let things go. Because of this, he is a President that can easily be controlled. He doesn't know how to ignore things and just focus on what he needs to get done. He focuses on almost every little comment and rages out at these things far too often.

As the President, you will always be under attack and under constant scrutiny regardless of whether you are doing a good job or a bad job. There is no such thing as a person that can please everyone and he constantly seeks the approval of others. His consistent melt downs and braggadocious behavior is annoying to constantly view and hear about. He is not the first and he will not be the last President to have the house and congress against him. This is something that has happened numerous times in history. Also, the fact that comments by the smallest of media outlets and athletes can consistenly garner the President's attention or incite anger from him is sad.

He cannot handle the position.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Except it already is, when you consider all of the Federal and State government bailouts, tax-breaks, and judicial gerrymandering gleefully thrown at corporations to ensure that they get wealth redistributed towards them.

Sorry, you don’t have in the US a socialist entitlement system carries people from cradle to grave with guaranteed entitlements for every single resident or as we like to call it, free stuff.

However, the general voting masses of the US shall not be offered the same as corporations - as that's "socialism" which is totally unacceptable in the Republican / GOP vernacular, as the general voting masses aren't considered as "job creators.

Never got a job from a poor person and never have taken a job from the government.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

another cold country, no thank you.

lol. Oh my.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47088684

Ninety million people - a third of the US - have seen temperatures of -17C (0F) or below. Some 250 million Americans overall have experienced the "polar vortex" conditions.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

never have taken a job from the government.

Does that include the military?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Ninety million people - a third of the US - have seen temperatures of -17C (0F) or below. Some 250 million Americans overall have experienced the "polar vortex" conditions.

Well, I guess that kills the climate warming changing argument. I wish the planet would make up its mind, it’s either getting too hot or two cold. Lol

Does that include the military?

I haven’t.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

There must be a reason why thousands of people a day are caught illegally crossing OUR border and overstaying OUR visas, not just passing through on the way to Canada.

Of course there are reasons, but those reasons don’t support your conclusions.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

like Sweden, love Pipi, their meatballs and even Sürstromming, but I don’t want my country to be like them

That’s why we think you’re messed up. Sweden can be quantified as a better place than America, yet you’d rather keep Americans down.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

That’s why we think you’re messed up.

I think the same about socialists

Sweden can be quantified as a better place than America, yet you’d rather keep Americans down.

No, I’m for uplifting America, that’s why I would never vote for a socialist because I know it would destroy the country. California is a prime example of that and every single time I visit, more people are leaving and more it’s going downhill and the middleclass are leaving like crazy and if California, the largest populated socialist State can’t handle it, then without a doubt the country won’t make it.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

The White House is also smarting from explosive testimony on Capitol Hill by Trump's former lawyer and fixer on Wednesday that branded him a criminal and a racist.

Um, not really.

The lying rat falls flat

Michael Cohen systematically destroyed about a dozen left-wing talking points during his public testimony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJzHdSdYCdI

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

I never cease to be amazed by comments like that. Sure, one might call them left-leaning but "extreme", lol. Some people need to see the world a bit more. The indoctrination in the US is genuinely terrifying. It's almost like (some) don't want to educate themselves.

Most of them are just useful idiots regurgitating what they hear on talk radio or Faux News. What's more distressing is how masterful the GOP is at framing public discourse, as well as shifting the realm of possibility to the right. There are a few key components to this strategy IMO:

1) Ignore the rest of the world. Americans will only understand they're outliers on things like health care or incarceration/crime rates or defense spending if you bring up Sweden or Canada.

2) Ignore all history before Reagan. B/C if you looked at Nixon or Ike or god forbid Teddy Roosevelt's domestic policies, you'd come to realize that Hillary Clinton in 2016 was to their right.

3) Elide any distinction between your opponents, labeling even the most moderate figures extreme leftists.

4) Actively introduce radical ideas into the public discourse, things that would have been unheard of even a few years ago. Maintain relentless discipline from the top down, like all good authoritarian movements--uniform talking points, endlessly repeated regardless of reasonable critiques.

Think about the first time you heard some loony GOP idea--no doubt you thought it never stood a chance of becoming policy (see the list below). Then consider how quickly perception shifted--from being unthinkable to "well, maybe carrying guns on our hips in restaurants isn't a bad idea." And so on down the list radical ideas become part of mainstream discussion and eventually often, depressingly, policy. It's easy to ridicule the guys posting online but the guys running right-wing think tanks and the GOP know exactly what they're doing and they've been kicking our backside for 40 years. The only current radicals in American government are in their party, not ours.

Unthinkable

Radical

Acceptable

Sensible

Popular

Policy

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Michael Cohen systematically destroyed about a dozen left-wing talking points during his public testimony.

Not to mention when asked if he ever wanted to work in the Trump team, he said, “No” but on Cuomo’s show he said “100%”.....another 3 years added....

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Never got a job from a poor person and never have taken a job from the government

The US has a very poor record on social mobility, and so poor people in the US are less likely to break out of poverty and be in a position to create jobs.

What’s wrong with taking a job from the government? You told us half of your family is in the military and others are in law enforcement.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I’m for uplifting America, that’s why I would never vote for a socialist because I know it would destroy the country. 

And again you are simply parroting your cultural.m brainwashing as there are real live examples in the role to show that this thing you claim to know, is in fact something you are wrong about.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Go live in Sweden then, Stranger.

I’d rather live there than America without a doubt.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

"Under the guise of Medicare for All and a Green New Deal

Oh my...

Democrats unveil plan to bring total government control to health care; reaction and analysis from former Sen. Schumer aide Chris Hahn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8IzSb-IrQ

The Green New Deal proposal's potential impact on national debt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDFvzbNnxvE

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

@Jcapan

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/#3afb3e5974ad

A common response from the left is that socialism (or democratic socialism) works just fine in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. It is certainly true that Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark are notable economic successes. What is false is that these countries are particularly socialist.

The myth of Nordic socialism is partially created by a confusion between socialism, meaning government exerting control or ownership of businesses, and the welfare state in the form of government-provided social safety net programs. However, the left’s embrace of socialism is not merely a case of redefining a word. Simply look at the long-running affinity of leftists with socialist dictators in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela for proof many on the left long for real socialism. 

To the extent that the left wants to point to an example of successful socialism, not just generous welfare states, the Nordic countries are actually a poor case to cite. Regardless of the perception, in reality the Nordic countries practice mostly free market economics paired with high taxes exchanged for generous government entitlement programs.

First, it is worth noting that the Nordic counties were economic successes before they built their welfare states. Those productive economies, generating good incomes for their workers, allowed the governments to raise the tax revenue needed to pay for the social benefits. It was not the government benefits that created wealth, but wealth that allowed the luxury of such generous government programs.

Second, as evidence of the lack of government interference in business affairs, there is the fact that none of these countries have minimum wage laws. Unions are reasonably powerful in many industries and negotiate contracts, but the government does nothing to ensure any particular outcome from those negotiations. Workers are paid what they are worth, not based on government’s perception of what is fair.

Hooray for Capitalism!!!

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

BlacklabelToday 01:01 pm JST

There must be a reason why thousands of people a day are caught illegally crossing OUR border and overstaying OUR visas, not just passing through on the way to Canada.

Any idea what that reason might be? I'm racking my brains.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Back on topic.

Trump's speech was typically pathetic. All self congratulations, self victimizing, misrepresentation, lies, cheap insults, junior high level rhetoric.

And anyone who hugs a flag is simply a con man.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

plasticmonkeyToday 02:45 pm JST

Trump's speech was typically pathetic. All self congratulations, self victimizing, misrepresentation, lies, cheap insults, junior high level rhetoric.

It appears you're not the only person who took a dim view of it.

During a segment on MSNBC this afternoon, [Republican strategist Rick] Tyler told host Alex Witt that Trump has changed CPAC and the Republican Party for the worse since he took power. “It’s interesting about CPAC,” he said. “It used to be the confab of conservatives who would get together once a year but it’s not CPAC anymore — it hasn’t been since 2016. It’s now Trump-pac and should be TPAC.

"The people there talk about being pro-tariffs, anti-justice, anti-law enforcement, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, pro-Russia, pro-autocrat. It’s unrecognizable what Donald Trump has done to the party and what he’s done to the conservative movement… It’s a shame," Tyler added.

Just goes to show Trumpophiles speak for no one except their silly little cult.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

anyone who hugs a flag is simply a con man.

And creepy as hell.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Because socialism is when people other than bass4funk and his friends and family get something from the government

Sorry, but no.

Trump's speech was typically pathetic. All self congratulations, self victimizing, misrepresentation, lies, cheap insults, junior high level rhetoric.

And anyone who hugs a flag is simply a con man.

Really, I thought he was spot on and could have gone another 2-3 hours. As for the insults, just desserts, liberals and the media as well as the Democrats insult him on a daily basis, so please show some fairness, if they can do it to him, he has every right to throw it right back in their faces. The media lies eveyday, they’re never held accountable, so I think it’s all fair. If liberals keep on this political socialist jihadist, they will make it too easy for Trump to slide into another 4 years. But we know liberals never listen....which is fine to me. Lol

Kudos, Trump!

By that definition, America is a socialist country as powerful rich people seem to get free stuff from the US government all the time

Yeah, nice try.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

The indoctrination in the US is genuinely terrifying. It's almost like (some) don't want to educate themselves.

Education is indoctrination. They have just been educated on half truths and fear.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Nope. The lack of evidence to back his claims told me. No audio, video, document, nothing. Empty hands and convicted of lying to Congress mouth.

Lynne Patton confirmed it. Cohen even lied again saying he didn’t want to work in the White House when he is on video that he did want to. You know, evidence.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

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