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Trump White House sees 'deep state' behind leaks, opposition

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By JONATHAN LEMIRE

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Tricky Dickie had his "Deep Throat". I guess the Toddler-in-Chief can have his "deep state" if he wants. Sheeesh !

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Though the Russians have probably contributed to undermining US systems, they're probably no longer needed when Trump, Bannon, Kushner etal are digging deeper holes for the nation by restricting opposition from the judiciary, the media, the intelligence services, knowledgable federal workers, and others. That there are and have always been powerful groups within the various federal bureaucracies is a reality, just like there are and have always been powerful groups running business, banking and trade - for at least the last couple thousand years.

That there are and have always been those who believe it’s a conspiracy of some sort - deep state, MSM, liberals, global bankers, globalists, climate scientists, fluoride in the water, etc. - makes it easier for the fake news purveyors like TrumpBannonPutin to manipulate their ever fearful, true believing followers. That’s my conspiracy theory.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Basically, the Military Industrial Complex which feeds off the taxpayer by selling them billion dollar planes made of thousand dollar bolts pieced together with hundred dollar hammers is worried that they're losing their stranglehold on the American Government.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

Rather have a deep state than a Trump state. Are the Republicans just preparing one of their many excuses for when Trump is ousted before his term ends?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@rBush feeds off the taxpayer

It's good to read daily that Russians, particularly those paid to be keyboard brigade members, care so much about the US.

I do not support what the US military does outside its borders, but do believe a primary purpose of a federal government is to provide protection for its citizens from other states' militaries. I personally think the current US military is big enough, maybe too big, and do not favor increased spending to make it bigger.

Why do you think Russians are so interested in the US military? Could it be that Russia wants to keep pace with the US, and once again Russia doesn't have the financial ability to do so, that it could be 1989 redux? With oil and gas prices staying flat, that's a possibility. The naval port and pipeline in Syria are looking mighty expensive now, aren't they.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Bannon has a long-standing admiration for tyrants, strongmen, and dictators.

Trump and his Republican administration are notorious for accusing their rivals of the dirty tricks that they themselves perform or want to pull off.

So we can put two and two together- Bannon wants to create a deep state under Trump but people of morality in the government are still undermining him by leaking Trump's ridiculousness, so he's inventing a myth of a deep state in order to shore up his power with the angry illiterati. He's banking on the kind of people who voted for Trump being so hysterical as to believe in a shadow government before they'd belief something as incredible as different people simply disagreeing about how government should operate.

This is how fascism works.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Trump and his enablers - what a bunch of precious snowflakes! Of course there are entrenched interests - they exist any any organization - but they make it sounds like it is all a conspiracy, like the holdovers are coordinated, unified, and purposeful.

Trump, you're screwin' up big time. Don't try to pin your failures on imaginary monsters.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

For an excellent explanation of this phenomenon, I recommend the wonderful British sitcoms, "Yes, Minister," and "Yes, Prime Minister." What Trump is up against is not imaginary. It exists in every country as far as I know.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

"They create a lie, spread a lie, fail to check the lie and then deny that they were behind the lie.”

Wait, Newt Gingrich said this?! What "They" is he talking about?? Doesn't he read Trump's tweets? Trump has been one of the world's masters of creating stories, spreading them on social media, failing to check them, and then denying he was behind them.

Look in the mirror Newt. Maybe both sides lie, but you've got some all stars on your side!! Ha!

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Symptoms of a government of a Banana republique.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

BertieWoosterMAR. 15, 2017 - 09:03AM JST For an excellent explanation of this phenomenon, I recommend the wonderful British sitcoms, "Yes, Minister," and "Yes, Prime Minister." What Trump is up against is not imaginary.

Yes, because when we want to verify a thing exists, the best place to look for documentation is in fictional British sitcoms. That's how we know Edmund "The Blackadder" killed King Richard and that all holograms have an "H" on their foreheads.

It exists in every country as far as I know.

Now think through what you're saying for a moment. If as you allege without evidence, a deep state exists in every country, then it is futile to fight against the principle. They must, under your unsupported hypothesis, be a natural outgrowth of all governments. So your argument (again, generously assuming it were correct), would then be evidence that Bannon is not actually opposed to the concept of a deep state, but is simply opposed to a deep state not under his control.

By trying to defend Bannon's charlatanism, you're laying the rhetorical groundwork for exactly what I argued above, that Bannon is trying to create a deep state to cement control of the government outside of the democratic process.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

None of us can be sure who is behind the leaks, as discussed in this article, however things are leaking and no one likes it when this happens (as it reveals how low politics in the U.S. has sunk). Related to this it looks like NBC has Trump's 2005 tax returns, which should be revealed in about 10 minutes. This ought to be interesting.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I read that visitors for most countries have dropped, including those from China (you know, those with $$$$ to spend) and Europe. BUT, visitors from Russia have increased. It's good that Russians now have a second home country to visit. Well done, President Bannon.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

They're trying to make Trump the victim.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Sounds like the lefties on here like corruption. Just wonderful!

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

This is how an autocracy is formed. Mass confusion on what is real and what is not and mass deliberate obfuscation of facts makes that the new normal. In times like this, the government holds outsized power due to its massive presence in the state. Also, making accusations of a compromised government and a "deep state" naturally allows the government itself to create that deep state, which is almost certainly happening right now. Due to Trump, a parallel state may be a natural feature for America going forward. This is only possible because of Trump's supporters

7 ( +7 / -0 )

He did not produce anything off poof of Obama tapped Trump Towere on zMonday that he received one week extension to produce proofs.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Trump after being impeached: "Everything would have worked out fine if it wasn't for those pesky deep state kids exposing our lies by leaking the truth to those fake news sites."

The news and leaks have been good for America:

Flynn was a Russian sympathizer and foreign agent to Turkey and should never have been the DNI. Sessions is a racists who knowingly lied to congress. You can see it in his face after he lies that he messed up. Obama wiretaps Trump Tower, everyone busted Trump on that stupid lie Even his paid liars got busted and treated so unfairly Russian oligarch with ties to the Alpha Bank and Russia government paid 2.5X the market price for Trump's home in Florida and paid the highest price ever paid for a U.S. home. Trump pocketed a USD150M gain on that sale. Many many more releases have exposed Trump's lies.

Even Breitbart and Fox are pushing back on the GoP and Trump. That just shows you how shocking the GoP's and Trump's lies and actions are.

Trump and Bannon like the idea of purges. I wonder what the new Purge movie will be like. It is supposed to be a prequel, and a government like Trump's will be the one who passes the purge laws.

Besides, Trump has enough trouble with just being Trump.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Well....the leaked 2005 tax returns ended up being a non story. He paid a higher effective tax 25% than the leakers, 24%.

The other leaks may have some teeth. Is there a deep state behind this? Who knows? Regardless of whether these leaks are against Trump or against Clinton (or whoever) it is a shame the U.S. government has devolved to the point where we need leaks to get transparency.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Sounds like the lefties on here like corruption. Just wonderful!

This comment coming from someone who defends every aspect of Trump and his administration is extremely ironic.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

What mileage can Republicans actually get from blaming the Deep State? They're about to throw millions off health insurance, weaken worker protections, and now they want to let your employer penalize you if you refuse to give them your DNA. I would be grateful for a Deep State that could prevent any of this, but by the time this administration finishes firing everyone without replacements, there'll be no Deep State to blame.

Those who voted for Trump because they were miserable haven't seen real misery yet. Unfortunately, those who didn't vote for him will be feeling the pain, too. They say misery loves company. Perhaps that was the Trumpkins' intent all along.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

So Trump's leaked tax returns showed that he paid 38 million dollars in tax in one year and paid more than he was even really required to. Liberal media totally embarrassed themselves with another ILLEGAL leak. What is the next manufactured scandal?

like the holdovers are coordinated, unified, and purposeful.> That is exactly what they are. I couldnt have written it better myself.

As well as this: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/13/former-obama-staffers-launch-trump-watchdog-group-encourage-insiders-to-report-waste-and-fraud.html

A group with leadership of all ex Obama administration, who refuse to identify how they are funded (Obama? Hillary? Soros?) Claim in one statement to be non partisan, yet asking insiders to report anything and everything that they can use to attack Trump. Probably based out of Obama's house.

All the intelligence leaks and all the resistance groups and all the scrutiny, yet nothing illegal has been found so far. NOTHING.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Always looking for excuses to cover their incompetence. But three cheers for Deep State! DS 100, Trump 0

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Looks like Blacklabel is sold on the "deep state" theory.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

So in 2005 Trump earned $150 million but only paid $38 million at the same rate middle class Americans would pay?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Well....the leaked 2005 tax returns ended up being a non story. He paid a higher effective tax 25% than the leakers, 24%.

He paid that rate because he had to by law. C'mon, seriously: do you think Trump would pay any more than he had to? I wouldn't.

The key here is the alternative minimum tax, a mechanism the federal government imposes to cut through all of the shenanigans high income earners like Trump employ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_minimum_tax

It's not a non-story because Trump really hates the alternative minimum tax law and wants to get rid of it. If he has his way, his tax rate that year would have been the same as someone earning $33,000.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Anyone who watches and espouses FOXCNNMSNBC is both a victim and a participant of the deep state. Especially anyone who says Russia and US election in the same sentence. So many MSM parrots out there you'd think you were in the jungles of Brazil. Caw! Caw! Go the parrots.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

@superlib (They're trying to make Trump the victim.) maybe if they wouldn't have lied about things like trump tower not being monitored which turned out it was and they couldn't find anything at all or saying russia was behind hacking tbe election which they never found proof for then maybe he wouldn't look like one. Thanks to wikileaks its looking like the us may have made it look like russia hacked the elections since they have the power to do that.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The Deep State is nothing more than another name for an entrenched bureaucracy. And an entrenched bureaucracy is nothing more than a group of people with authority and no accountability. Way back in 1926 Calvin Coolidge had this to say about that...

"Of all forms of government, those administered by bureaus are about the least satisfactory to an enlightened and progressive people. Being irresponsible they become autocratic, and being autocratic they resist all development. Unless bureaucracy is constantly resisted it breaks down representative government and overwhelms democracy. It is the one element in our institutions that sets up the pretense of having authority over everybody and being responsible to nobody."

In this day and age, Trump represents the kind of resistance that Coolidge was talking about and his administration threatens to overturn the bureaucrat's apple cart. All Americans should be concerned about this so called Deep State, it doesn't really have their best interests in mind and will go to great lengths to maintain its grip on power.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@laguna - I just stated what tax he paid and the income. Of course he would not pay any more than he had to!!! You would not as you stated and neither would I. In the end this was a non story. Trump has numerous other problems and issues which call into question his fitness for duty as President.

By the way, I also hate the alternative minimum tax. For the same reason as Trump? I am not sure. It is a very complicated calculation. I agree with whoever wants to simplify the U.S. tax code, such to the point it becomes almost a flat tax with 3 or 4 brackets and very, very minimal deductions. Regardless I would want to get rid of that tax also.

Simplify the thing so it is fair. If is amazing to compare the thickness of my Japanese tax return and U.S. tax return.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Though the Russians have probably contributed to undermining US systems, they're probably no longer needed when Trump, Bannon, Kushner etal are digging deeper holes for the nation by restricting opposition from the judiciary,

But when Reagan did it to Carter and Clinton to Bush and Obama to GW and now all of a sudden, you guys on the left are not happy with it? Every president has the right to keep on or ask for the resignation papers of any formal appointee from the previous administration, they have all done it, nothing new here and if a Democrat every gets in the WH again, they will do it to this administration, which is their right to do so.

the media, the intelligence services, knowledgable federal workers, and others. That there are and have always been powerful groups within the various federal bureaucracies is a reality, just like there are and have always been powerful groups running business, banking and trade - for at least the last couple thousand years.

And your point?

That there are and have always been those who believe it’s a conspiracy of some sort - deep state, So Obama moving two miles down the street with Valerie Jarret moving in is just a pure coincidence?

MSM, liberals,

It's a liberally controlled industry in the US 98% of the media is lefft leaning in the TV and print media industry.

global bankers, globalists,

A thorn in the side for the US.

climate scientists,

Depends on what you believe in.

fluoride in the water, etc. - makes it easier for the fake news

It's fake?!!

purveyors like TrumpBannonPutin to manipulate their ever fearful, true believing followers. That’s my conspiracy theory.

I don't they can manipulate anyone, I think the people woke up to that last November.

A group with leadership of all ex Obama administration, who refuse to identify how they are funded (Obama? Hillary? Soros?) Claim in one statement to be non partisan, yet asking insiders to report anything and everything that they can use to attack Trump. Probably based out of Obama's house.

True that. As usual, the left keep doing a Gregory Hines on the issue.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Sounds like the lefties on here like corruption. Just wonderful! LOL being lead by one of the most corrupt business men around in Trump. Man trump and his fools will stoop to any lows to deflect attention away from his failings, itd be actually funny if it wasn't so serious. One plus is SNL will have plenty of material for the next few seasons. LOL

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yet more claims made without evidence, or sources.

Instead of making up more cobblers, why doesn't Trump show us the evidence for his claim his phones were tapped, or withdraw his claim? He must do one or the other. Simply calling for an investigation means he has no evidence and is just making stuff up, something he keeps accusing the media of doing.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Can someone explain this to me?

During the election, when Hillary Clinton suggested that Trump was maybe not as rich as he claimed to be, and may not have paid any income tax, Trump replied 'That makes me smart'.

Now we know that he did pay income tax, albeit at a rate not much different to a person with a much lower income, does that make Trump clearly less smart than he claimed to be?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

i can empathize, i also have a deep state in my household with my entrenched wife and 3 kids always undermining my authority...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Heading back to Nazi Germany, the US is... only this time THEY are the dictators. Bannon, Breitbart, Gingerich, and the Alt-right Neo-nazis couldn't be happier.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh the lefty hypocrisy....

Do you superhumans use Facebook or google?

Hidden in the report's footnotes is an amazing admission: despite $1.1 billion in U.S. profits in 2012, Facebook did not pay even a dime in federal and state income taxes. Instead, Facebook says it will receive net tax refunds totaling $429 million.

The power of the MSM compels you!

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Oh the lefty hypocrisy.... Do you superhumans use Facebook or google?

What does the right use? MySpace? Yahoo?

The power of the MSM compels you!

You sound more like a parrot than anyone else. "MSM! MSM!" Everything is the MSM with you. The world is more complex than that.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Looks like Blacklabel is sold on the "deep state" theory.>

That is correct. While there is no evidence whatsoever pointing to Russian collusion, there is evidence of deep state monitoring and leaking information about private citizens in order to try to attack Trump. How did Hillary know about it? How did the New York Times know about it? Even a DEMOCRATIC senator says he was wiretapped. Explain this?

http://thehill.com/media/323846-dennis-kucinich-on-trumps-wiretap-charge-it-happened-to-me

Oh and by the way the Russian hacking? How about these guys that the media is trying to hide? Wont talk about it cause they are Muslim, the liberals wont even fire an IT guy whose system access was taken just cause of his religion.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/14/plot-thickens-in-probe-house-it-contractors.html

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The US is a joke now, stand aside as the leader of the 'free' world. Pull the shutters down and throw custard pies at each other behind closed doors please.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Newt: "They create a lie, spread a lie, fail to check the lie and then deny that they were behind the lie.”

_cough_birthermovementcough

Well....the leaked 2005 tax returns ended up being a non story.

That's the perplexing thing about it - why didn't he just release it then

He's making it harder for himself

Trump better be careful - there are more Red Deep States than there are Blue Deep States

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Well....the leaked 2005 tax returns ended up being a non story.

That's the perplexing thing about it - why didn't he just release it then

It's not impossible that he didn't release it since it was leaked anonymously. It definitely seems strange that anyone outside his circle would leak a single incomplete tax return from 12 years ago that happens to be clean. A political enemy would be better off not releasing it.

This just me theorizing, but this is a guy who more than once pretended to be his own publicist to inflate his image.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Heading back to Nazi Germany,

What do you mean? They reopened concentration camps and gearing up for the final solution??

the US is... only this time THEY are the dictators. Bannon, Breitbart, Gingerich, and the Alt-right Neo-nazis couldn't be happier.

So what you are implying is that, people will be subjugated and selected be slaughtered and all of our PC will have to be destroyed as well as our books and we will be indoctrinated to believe....

You lefties are a strange bunch, but now you guys are completely off the rails. My advice, don't watch anymore Oliver Stone or Michael Moore movies.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

climate scientists, Depends on what you believe in.

The preponderance of the evidence and facts are more important than what you believe in or how you feel, which are the basis for the GoP's positions when they don't have evidence or facts on their side.

The power of the MSM compels you!

The power of feelings and the desire to impose your conservative views on others compel you!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

While there is no evidence whatsoever pointing to Russian collusion, there is evidence of deep state monitoring and leaking information about private citizens in order to try to attack Trump.

Oh, wait - I get it: the "deep state" hacked Democratic email holders so as to orchestrate a Trump victory, and now the "deep state" is for some reason turning on the man they elected. It is all starting to make sense!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I am also perplexed about the tax returns. I wonder if other years are different. However he is audited nearly every year so I would imagine the tax returns are at least fairly straight up.

Regardless....what a very, very strange place and political environment the U.S. has devolved into.

Makes one wonder...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

pointofviewMAR. 15, 2017 - 10:42AM JST Sounds like the lefties on here like corruption. Just wonderful!

Corruption has nothing to do with this discussion. So not only have you overgeneralized and made a baseless personal attack, but your overgeneralized baseless personal attack is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Well done. That kind of trolling takes commitment.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Oh, wait - I get it: the "deep state" hacked Democratic email holders so as to orchestrate a Trump victory, and now the "deep state" is for some reason turning on the man they elected. It is all starting to make sense!>

Nice try but no, the deep state involvement is POST election. Trump was not supposed to win. There was NO path to 240 electoral college votes for Trump. Hillary win percentage was at 98%, the media mocked Nate Silver when he said it was really only 84%. Fireworks were planned, key swing states were not even visited, it wasnt necessary they said. They thought the leaked entertainment tape and all the personal attacks had finished Trump off. So didnt need the deep state involvement or any But Russia! narrative to win.

But then....disaster and they lost. Now they are sad in their feeeeels and now using illegal leaks of illegal surveillance and transcripts of conversations that could not have legally been listened to as a way to undermine the President's agenda. Not gonna work. To quote my favorite Obama saying that now relates to Trump: 'Elections have consequences and at the end of the day, I won'

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

How stupid does the American right have to be to fool themselves into believing this garbage? I mean, really... they lie about everything, then make up stuff about Obama wiretapping and what have you, and when as a matter of course it's suggested that Trump either find proof or prepare to face the consequences Bannon starts making up the idea that there is a conspiracy to overthrow the government. They are setting it up so that when they fail it'll be someone else's fault. Honestly... how dumb does the Right have to be to buy into Breitbart? Trump and Co have definitely made GWB look like a genius, and that's saying something.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I am amazed that the same people who deny a deep state exists "because there's no evidence" willingly believe the Russians hacked the election - with no evidence other than the claims of those in the deep state (which they say doesn't exist).

Denying a deep state exists is like denying trees exist. It has been a commonly accepted part of politics everywhere for well over a century. But now that Trump complains of it, it magically ceases to exist? That's pretty much a conversation stopper right there.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Basically, the Military Industrial Complex which feeds off the taxpayer by selling them billion dollar planes made of thousand dollar bolts pieced together with hundred dollar hammers is worried that they're losing their stranglehold on the American Government.

@Burning Bush, you could be right. But Trump's proposed increase in military spending might suggest he's thinking of a different deep state.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

http://thehill.com/media/323846-dennis-kucinich-on-trumps-wiretap-charge-it-happened-to-me

So a Democrat was wiretapped, a reporter played to him a tape of his private conversation from 2011 (who was President then? I forget). Yet it is so hard to believe that the same people wiretapped their sworn enemy from the other political group in an effort to make sure the Obama legacy was maintained. Is the Dem politician mistaken that he heard his own voice on tape?

This couldnt have been done by the same guy who even now is setting up resistance movements rather than just going away like ex-presidents have always done? Why is this so hard to believe that it could have at least possibly happened?

Even CNN has admitted Obama did nothing about the supposed Russian hacks because they were going to win

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/13/politics/obama-administration-russia-hacks-response/ In addition to a fear of sparking a wider cyber-conflict and an attempt to save talks with Russia over Syria, the administration did not want to give Donald Trump reason to cry foul following what they were certain would be a Hillary Clinton victory.......Administration officials were sure Trump would lose in November

So Obama and his buddies are ok now with sparking a wider cyber conflict, and messing up talks with Russia about Syria? Sure they are! Because Trump can now be blamed when they do it.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Now they are sad in their feeeeels and now using illegal leaks of illegal surveillance and transcripts of conversations...

Black, could you be a bit more specific about who "they" is? And do you have any examples of illegal leaks or surveillance? Sorry, but until you point to some concrete evidence in these areas, your argument holds zero weight.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Laguna They are the 'deep state', specifically people in intelligence who have access to all of the phone calls and communications both within the USA and internationally. It used to be 1 agency that had access to those but Obama increased that to 16 agencies in his last weeks in office. Even NY Times reported he did that to leave a trail and to have more people have access to the information....so it could be leaked. Wikileaks has confirmed the tools used and who uses them for what.

Leaks? How does the media have a transcript of a private call Michael Flynn made? Not just what someone heard about but an actual transcript? How did they know exactly what was said to the leaders of Mexico and Australia in private phone calls? How did the NY Times on Jan 20th report in their front page headline that they knew that Trump was wiretapped? How did Hillary Clinton and her campaign Manager know in October? There are too many people knowing exactly what was said in conversations that they should have no knowledge of.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

I am also perplexed about the tax returns.

You and me both and we're not alone.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/14/trump-may-have-leaked-his-own-tax-return-award-winning-journalist-says.html

Apparently, the leaked tax return was stamped "Client Copy," i.e., Trump's copy.

Say you're Trump and want to get the critics off your back about the tax returns, one strategy might be to throw them a bone (nothing incriminating of coarse). But if you only have a scrap that's not incriminating and release it yourself, the obvious response would be, "This is from 12 years ago. Where's the rest?"

So you leak it anonymously. Better yet, you mail it to one of your critics, your idea being to throw everyone off your scent and add an air of authenticity by having the non-incriminating "proof" coming from a critics mouth. Unfortunately for you, the critic figured you out almost immediately...

About the "deep state," I don't doubt there are those who seek to exert influence, but I'm less sure about how organized and influential they really are. Trump insulted and made enemies with a lot of people in a lot of circles, on top of being dangerously incompetent. You don't need a deep state to explain that a lot of people want to take him down by leaking information (true information mind you).

About Russia, no, we haven't seen any evidence, but there are a lot of extenuating circumstances. And Trump and his administration sure act like people who colluded with Russia.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I wonder what Ernie Kovacs would have done in a skit about Deep State. Don't forget that lobbyists are far more dangerous than bureaucracy. The deep situation holds true for both parties. Trump will dump what bothers him, but the Deep State of the White House kitchen staff will survive. Did Bannon ever serve in the military?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

There's no denying the deep state

of ordure that Trump has dropped everyone in

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Gotta admit that Trump has done wonders for the Alex Jones crowd.

5 years ago, "deep state" was tinfoil hat stuff.

Now it's watercooler material.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Burning Bush: "5 years ago, "deep state" was tinfoil hat stuff. Now it's watercooler material"

Tinfoil hat water cooler material in Alt-right assembly halls, yes.

"Yet it is so hard to believe that the same people wiretapped their sworn enemy from the other political group in an effort to make sure the Obama legacy was maintained. Is the Dem politician mistaken that he heard his own voice on tape?"

Prove it. You can't, can you. And that's the points. If you're going to make allegations, you need proof. You quoted someone playing a taped conversation, so where's yours? You guys make PT Barnum laugh from his grave!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Prove it. You can't, can you. And that's the points. If you're going to make allegations, you need proof. You quoted someone playing a taped conversation, so where's yours? You guys make PT Barnum laugh from his grave!>

The evidence that others have been wired tapped during Obama presidency and had transcripts of phone calls released shows it is possible. Documents showing that the CIA has the tools to do this type of surveillance has been confirmed. The results of the still ongoing investigation will show if the allegations can be proven or not. The final result will simply depend on what evidence can be gathered, who tells the truth/lies in their testimony and the main factor of whether it was actually done to Trump or not.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Ooh goody, another baseless conspiracy theory from the kids. It must be at least a week since we had one of them. They'll be running out of people to blame for their incompetence by May at this rate.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Dear Mr. Chump; please resign and go away.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well....the leaked 2005 tax returns ended up being a non story. He paid a higher effective tax 25% than the leakers, 24%.

LOL, don't sound too disappointed.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Blacklabel: "The evidence that others have been wired tapped during Obama presidency and had transcripts of phone calls released shows it is possible."

No no no... PROVE that Trump was wiretapped by Obama. I didn't say talk about examples of his administration being wiretapped by others.

"The results of the still ongoing investigation will show if the allegations can be proven or not."

Yet you already believe it, with zero evidence that it happened.

Guess what, Trump has boasted about having the ability to grab women by the genitals without them doing anything, so does that mean all the claims of sexual assault are true because they COULD be? According to you, they are. Well done!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

April 1st coming up soon. Trump will probably give his troops licence to use facts for 24 hours.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

commanteerMAR. 15, 2017 - 04:43PM JST I am amazed that the same people who deny a deep state exists "because there's no evidence" willingly believe the Russians hacked the election

You've got three attempts at misinformation here.

The first is an outright falsehood: no one thinks Russians hacked the election. Some people might think the Russian government influenced the election through information that was obtained by hacking, but "hacked the election" is a dishonest representation that makes it sound like people think they broke into voting machines - a fantasy strawman invented by far-right trolls.

Your second is another outright falsehood: No one here claims it is certain that the Russian government influenced the election, simply that it is plausible enough that it is worth investigating.

And that issue of plausibility is what reveals your third and most important attempt at misinformation here. People want Russia's involvement in the election to be investigated because it is both plausible and knowable. Either Russia did or did not influence our election, and while obtaining evidence one way or the other may be difficult, it is knowable. It can be proven or disproven using facts and evidence.

The existence of a deep state is a conspiracy theory because firstly it is not plausible. American government administrations have switched parties many, many times in our history and never once has there been an issue of a deep state left behind. The only examples of deep states we have are dictatorships, and though people on the far right may vehemently hate Obama for some reason we won't speculate about just now there is absolutely zero evidence supporting his administration being a dictatorship.

More importantly, however, the deep state accusation is a conspiracy theory because it can never be disproven. If we traced the path of documents from the DNC to Wikileaks and saw that at no stage was a Russian operative involved, we could disprove the accusation that they involved themselves in that part of the election. There is no information that can be collected, however, that could ever definitely show that there is no Obama "deep state". Whatever evidence any investigation could uncover, there is nothing that couldn't be responded to by a die-hard Trump fanatic with, "Well, you just didn't find it yet." Because while the Russia accusation relies on actions that either did or didn't happen, the deep state conspiracy hinges around why the leaks are happening, it hinges around the leakers' inward motivations.

And so your comment is an act of misinformation because it tries to place a plausible, investigatable crime (however difficult that may be in practice) on the same plane of validity with an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory. There is a vast difference between the two accusations and a person trying to equate them is acting in bad faith.

Which is sadly not unusual or unexpected from Trump supporters at this point.

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The Russians hacked the elections mantra is the equivalent of a YouTube video caused the Benghazi massacre. Pure misdirection. One thing we now know, thanks to WikiLeaks, is, the CIA possesses the capability to make a successful hack appear to have been by the Russians when it was actually by the CIA.

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How stupid does the American right have to be to fool themselves into believing this garbage? I mean, really... they lie about everything, then make up stuff about Obama wiretapping and what have you,

So that was made up? Ok, fair enough, there is No proof, equally, there is No proof that the Russians colluded with the Trump transitional team to the level that could compromise the US electoral system.

and when as a matter of course it's suggested that Trump either find proof or prepare to face the consequences Bannon starts making up the idea that there is a conspiracy to overthrow the government.

Or more like overthrow and definitely undermine the president.

They are setting it up so that when they fail it'll be someone else's fault.

The problem with liberals even at this stage, they just cannot admit to ANY faults, No matter what the situation is or what the circumstances are. Astonishing! Sure, both sides do this, but the left really has a problem with saying, "I screwed up or, I was wrong." I just don't get it.

Honestly... how dumb does the Right have to be to buy into Breitbart? Trump and Co have definitely made GWB look like a genius, and that's saying something.

What was wrong with GW? Anyway, the left have the media, almost all and even if Trump has Bannon and as you say, company, it's still 10 to 1 for you libs when it comes to the media. Seriously, what's the problem?

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Trump has not been looking his old self recently: he looks chastened and sheepish like he's lost his mojo since trumping his attacktweets on Obama and discovering that Trumpcare is proving much more complicated than he had imagined. Perhaps he knows that he's already gone too far and is now in deep (doo-doo), and can feel that his slide down the slippery slope is picking up momentum. We'll know more about the murky "deep state" when it eventually shows its hand to give Trump the inevitable bum's rush out of the Oval Office (in record time).

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The Russians hacked the elections mantra is the equivalent of a YouTube video caused the Benghazi massacre.

Like a kastu78 said (great post btw) that the Russians "hacked" the election is a misdirection from the right. Everyone else thinks it's plausible that the Russians attempted to influence the election using hacked information. The difference is subtle at first glance, but very important.

A YouTube video causing the Benghazi attack was a premature statement made while information was scarce that was quickly retracted when proven to be false. The endless investigations that ultimately proved nothing were pure misdirection.

the CIA possesses the capability to make a successful hack appear to have been by the Russians when it was actually by the CIA.

And Russia possessed the capability successfully hack dirt on Hillary Clinton and the DNC leak that information to influence voter opinion. Putin does it in his country against his own political rivals, and we know he employs trolls to denounce America on Internet forums. And let's not forget Trump's peculiar inability to say anything critical of Putin, and Russia being on the previous work histories of half his inner circle.

I'd say Russia trying to influence the election is very plausible, but you don't even want one investigation when Benghazi got 12? No investigation of the botched Yemen raid? Evidence of the millions of illegal voters Trump promised? His full and recent tax returns? Proof of Obama's wire-tapping? You know that Trump is the president now, so he can easily acquire evidence of wire-tapping with a phone call, right?

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May be president might resemble Emperor without clothes sooner than expected.

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Is a mental disorder sufficient cause for impeachment?

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Seriously, give it up... A dozen Republican-led investigations proved no wrong doing. You think they didn't try hard enough?

I think the Democrats tried harder, a lot harder. See Wikileaks-Podesta files.

They were worried about going to war with Russia. Are you saying we should've?

No, but the last administration didn't push hard enough with rhetoric and threats to intimidate the Russians and they would not even help arm the Ukrainians when they asked for arms and help from the US an ally. A back off approach and now Trump is complementing Russia and what's wrong with trying something different? We did it with Cuba and Iran, No difference.

No, we're concerned that if Russia wanted to influence the election, they appear to have gotten their way.

You can't prove it, there is No proof, just like there is No proof that Obama wiretapped Trump. Neither side has ANY hard concrete evidence, just pure speculation and that doesn't cut it.

The larger volume of circumstantial evidence that connects Trump to Russia than Obama to the Mullahs and Castro?

No smoking gun on either side, that's why the news outlets are rehashing this garbage day after day with zero results.

You have to admit, IF Obama was colluding with the Mullahs and Castro he got jack squat out of that relationship.

Oh, I definitely agree with that!

Trump might've got the White House.

There's always that teensy weensy far fetched possibility.

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Trump is just creating a new card to play. Add "deep state" to "fake news" and use when needed.

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Like a kastu78 said (great post btw) that the Russians "hacked" the election is a misdirection from the right.

Personally I haven't heard that from anyone on the right. They certainly did not coordinate with the Trump campaign in a way that would have changed the outcome. In fact there hasn't been an iota of evidence that the Russians (government not Yahoo type hackers) took any unusual steps at all beyond their normal intelligence operations.

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You've got three attempts at misinformation here. The first is an outright falsehood: no one thinks Russians hacked the election.

I'm glad you agree the election wasn't hacked by Russians. Yet, many people think exactly that, because that's the expression used time and time again by the media. Look for yourself and you will see. It's much more inflammatory and satisfying than saying that Russians may have influenced the election (dubious in itself), which doesn't have the same ring to it.

The "second attempt at misinformation" is simply your rereading of the first, so we'll scratch that one.

Your last point relates to plausibility. You think it's plausible that a country with a fraction of the economy, influence and population of the US could have significantly influenced the election. Not terribly plausible to me. And not even illegal. Influencing foreign elections is standard operating procedure for the US.

Meanwhile you say that the deep state is not plausible. So Eisenhower warning of the military-industrial complex was a delusion? The deep state (maybe your definition is different from mine) is as obvious as trees in a forest. Always has been, though it was previously called different names. It refers to the mix of unelected lobbyists, moneyed interests, military, the CIA, secretive groups and bureaucracy that are there regardless of who is president. The difference is that they have grown much more powerful recently, take many more liberties with US citizen's rights, and worst of all, now enjoy the actual support of people who's short term hatred of Trump overrides any sense of wanting to preserve freedom and human rights.

JFK wanted to dismantle the CIA. Since then, no candidate has been brave enough or stupid enough to challenge this large and out of control government agency. I'm glad to see someone do it, whatever the motivations. But it's unimaginable to me that so many Americans actually support the CIA at this point. Talk about loving one's oppressor.

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Personally I haven't heard that from anyone on the right.

I don't know where you stand, but you said "the Russians hacked the elections." Maybe you subconsciously heard it from the Trump surrogates who regularly say it when attempting to brush off the issue. Again, saying they hacked the elections implies they hacked the voting machines which is less plausible and therefore easier for the Trump camp to brush off as a crazy conspiracy theory. There's no hard evidence but more than enough circumstantial evidence and extenuating circumstances to warrant an investigation and without one, no one can really say "they certainly did not coordinate with the Trump campaign."

And what are Russia's "normal intelligence operations"? Putin is known to influence elections in his own country via smear campaigns with government-controlled media, and we know employs trolls to denounce America on English sites using general propaganda. Is it so hard to believe he'd take it a step further and hack DNC servers and use that information to influence an American election? Especially in an election where one candidate was a bitter rival and the other was a sycophantic buffoon? There was really no better opportunity.

I said it in a post that was deleted, but Hillary already had an image problem not helped by countless unfounded Republican accusations. I think it's certainly possible that Wikileaked evidence of the DNC playing favorites would push a lot of people who were on the fence into voting Trump or not voting at all.

Even if there was no coordination with Trump, everyone should be worried about a possible attempt by a foreign power to influence American elections, especially if it appears to have been successful.

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There's no hard evidence but more than enough circumstantial evidence and extenuating circumstances to warrant an investigation and without one, no one can really say "they certainly did not coordinate with the Trump campaign."

And I hope they do and if the results come back as nothing more than a witch hunt like with Trump's taxes, you guys will be satisfied? Doubt it, but it's at least worth asking....

And what are Russia's "normal intelligence operations"? Putin is known to influence elections in his own country via smear campaigns with government-controlled media, and we know employs trolls to denounce America on English sites using general propaganda. Is it so hard to believe he'd take it a step further and hack DNC servers and use that information to influence an American election? Especially in an election where one candidate was a bitter rival and the other was a sycophantic buffoon? There was really no better opportunity.

Maybe had Hillary not interfered with the 2011 Russian election, Putin might have stayed out of ours.

I think it's certainly possible that Wikileaked evidence of the DNC playing favorites would push a lot of people who were on the fence into voting Trump or not voting at all.

There is zero evidence of that.

Even if there was no coordination with Trump, everyone should be worried about a possible attempt by a foreign power to influence American elections, especially if it appears to have been successful.

There definitely should be some concern, I agree.

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And I hope they do and if the results come back as nothing more than a witch hunt like with Trump's taxes, you guys will be satisfied?

If it's like the taxes, no, we won't be satisfied. The leaked tax return was of a single year 12 years ago. Read my previous post about how it seems likely the Trump camp leaked it themselves. Complete tax records from THIS DECADE might clear up some of the Russian connection allegations too, so it would be to your side's benefit to release them as well. What's he hiding?

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basically, you and the other lefties are condoning corruption.

And my response is exactly the same as what I said the first time. This comment coming from someone who supports Trump is extremely ironic. He has shored up the swamp, then dumped a bunch of toxic coal water into it. Then tells you guy it's as clear as the water at a white sand beach, and even while looking at dirty swamp water, you guys agree with his proclamation.

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If it's like the taxes, no, we won't be satisfied.

Sad, but keep focusing, but that well is looking mighty dry....

The leaked tax return was of a single year 12 years ago. Read my previous post about how it seems likely the Trump camp leaked it themselves. Complete tax records from THIS DECADE might clear up some of the Russian connection allegations too, so it would be to your side's benefit to release them as well. What's he hiding?

Probably nothing, but I'm very sure the alt left will try to find something.....anything...whatever works...

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that well is looking mighty dry...

That's what the "leak" was supposed to make you think. Watch them use it as an excuse to not release the complete records now.

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Trump is furious today after a Hawaiian court slaps down his second travel ban, a watered down version of his first one, he claimed. He called it an unprecedented judicial overreach

Trump's White House has more leaks than the Fukushima reactors.

Will Trumpski change his views on Russia now the Justice Dept have said two Russian intelligence agents and two other people have been indicted on charges stemming from the hacking of at least half a billion Yahoo accounts.

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Yeah I would be pretty mad too. So you have a guy who did everything he could to make me lose, then did everything he could to cause problems for me after I won. Now goes on vacation to where he grew up and has his college classmate who he appointed as a judge suspend my executive order. Not based on content or the Constitution but based on how it might make non citizens of my county feel. Because some Syrian guy complained his mother in law cant come to visit. Who conveniently hasnt come to visit in the last decade and a half but suddenly cant wait 90 days? Hawaiimaking national security policy? Seriously?

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That's what the "leak" was supposed to make you think.

I think at this point, we can make up our own minds.

Watch them use it as an excuse to not release the complete records now.

And how does that benefit you?

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@bass4funk

What?? It doesn't benefit me. It doesn't benefit you... That's the point. Maybe take a break and have a nap...

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don't know where you stand, but you said "the Russians hacked the elections." Maybe you subconsciously heard it from the Trump surrogates who regularly say it when attempting to brush off the issue.

That was not mine, it was a comment I meant to quote. There was no hacking of the election. This is all a deliberate disinformation effort specifically designed to make it appear to be the work of Russia. Any foreign country would mask their cyber fingerprints for starters. It is simply good tradecraft. To do otherwise is to expose yourself as a rank amateur.

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Lots of nutball, right-wing theories floating out there.

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Ironically this is true, as the intelligence community sees Trump and all their ilk as leaks back to Russia. Which is also true. So we'll find out who will be in jail first?

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Put down the Alex Jones and slowly back away...

Complain the government is terrible and the leader is terrible, then become the government and leader and then complain that you aren't really in charge.. which is it?

Complain that everyone is simply against you like its some personal slight, rather than the overwhelming likelihood that some of your ideas simply aren't that popular and don't sit well with large majority of people, and frankly the law..

Complain all the lefties are just whining while forgetting they didn't actually get the peoples mandate.. and due to some old and very odd way of government give large patches of unpopulated land more say than people..

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@Lizz

There was no hacking of the election.

There you go saying it again... No one is claiming they "hacked the election."

Any foreign country would mask their cyber fingerprints for starters. It is simply good tradecraft. To do otherwise is to expose yourself as a rank amateur.

Of course they'll try to mask their fingerprints, just like the victim will try to protect their servers. According to you, no one would ever get caught for any crime if they practice good tradecraft? Please... I guess the Yahoo hackers were just amateurs.

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Bassfunk: This idoit is elected by you and you mates. Now when you see how who this fool welcome the Germany and Europe leader. I would rethink your devotion to this Pig. You have a Pig that represent the American People, you do agree with that this fool represent you and you are very proud of that fact. I don,t see any Major objection to the election of this fool so I take it that most American are not concern. This indicate the true American, So now the respect I had for American was misplace. So I will treat all American with distain unless they show total distain for the elected Fool.

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It's easy to figure this all out. You can't believe a word the man says and here's proof. When the word came out that Jeff Sessions lied under oath, the President threw a verbal hand-grenade into a gas station with "President Obama had Trump tower wire tapped!!!!!" Then everyone started looking in THAT direction, even though he has ZERO proof. It's sad that the world looks at us in the U.S. as a joke now for electing a snake-oil salesman.

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Every bureaucracy - large or small - has a vested interest in it's own survival no matter it's degree of utility. Call it 'deep state' or whatever, it is the simply a matter of the individuals within the organization preserving their paychecks, or status, or whatever. Socialists have a profound love of bureaucracy because it is the source of their ever growing control over society. It is also the source for America's current dysfunction - politically, socially, economically, and culturally.

This indicate the true American, So now the respect I had for American was misplace. So I will treat all American with distain unless they show total distain for the elected Fool.

And people wonder how Trump got elected in the first place....

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bass4funk:

There are enough clear facts that Trump is ignorant at best or fabricating fake news.

Or I am missing something?

(Please do not come with other media, bla bla bla, please focus on POTUS affirmations!

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