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TSA chief calls for understanding; pat-down leaves Michigan man covered in urine

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Unreal, this is just wrong.

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Yikes, if it was hard to force the urine out of the colostomy bag, it could have been hard enough to dislodge the tubing, which could have caused any number of serious problems.

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“TSA agents need to be trained to listen when someone tells them they have a health issue, because the one thing that Tom in his account talked about was he tried to explain and they just weren’t even interested in listening,” Saxton told The Associated Press.

Yes these people need to be trained to listen about this stuff. That is the problem with these kinds of jobs. They put idiots in place to do that and didn't account for situations like this. I hope they compensate him and apologize promptly. I have also found many idiots in jobs like this in the USA.

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More good things from the land of the Fee. America is headed down the dark road. This is only a first step and soon the police will be doing this on a regular thing to all people in America.

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I feel very sorry for this sick man in Detroit, but why did he not say, look, do not pat me down, I have bladder cancer etc...this man sounds like an idiot! I feel sorry for the TSA guy doing this patting down stuff, sounds really gross.

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TSA ought to be called Totally Stupid A **s. It is incredible that TSA personnel did not "listen" to this person with bladder cancer. It is not, however, surprising, considering the sort of low-level thugs working for TSA. TSA is a useless agency and ought to be dissolved. Unfortunately, this would put a lot of potential criminal elements out of the streets.

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I think they have to re-think this pat down thing either that or train these people to do it properly!

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Illegal aliens get free services, schooling, healthcare, and are not to be questioned, carded, profiled, or anything else that might infringe upon their civil rights.

While citizens, trying to use a service they paid for, are treated like this.

It's an outrage.

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Here is the latest from Yahoo about what Tom Sawyer about his interaction with TSA agents:

"Every time I tried to tell them about my medical condition, they said they didn't need to know about that," Sawyer told MSNBC. "One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me. Sure enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants."

I must add that TSA is only a part of the problem. Immigrations agents can be creepy as well--the sort who think you are going to be an illegal alien when it is obvious you are doing perfectly well in Japan. Then there the rude US airline personnel, who are the worst of the lot in that you are paying for their services.

But, that aside, TSA knew that Mr. Sawyer knew about his artificial bladder and refused to listen to him. TSA is blame in this matter.

On top of their thuggish inhumanity of TSA agents, TSA has nothing but the most arrogant contempt for the public. It has officially said that flying is a "privilege" and that if you, in effect, don't want to chance being humiliated by TSA don't fly. Unfortunately, flying is a necessity for the majority of people who fly. If there was a viable alternative, millions of people, including myself, would take it.

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These slaves better get used to this type of "ObamaCare" from the TSA. -Not as bad as the typical SEIU beat-down though. Socialism is hardest on the poor and medically challenged.

We should all be thankful that this sort of poor service in not popular in Japan.

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Jeeze, the TSA are getting a worse reputation than the French for rudeness....

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Look up TSA horror stories on google to find more examples. I am SO glad I'm not in the US right now.

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"Tom Sawyer, a 61-year-old retired special education teacher"

A modern-day warrior Mean mean stride, Today's Tom Sawyer Mean mean pride.

Though his mind is not for rent, Don't put him down as arrogant. His reserve, a quiet defense, Riding out the day's events.

How did Rush predict this?

Pistole has not ruled out body cavity searches, which severely ups the ante for protest. I think people need to take a stand now or say goodbye to commercial air travel as we know it. "Tomorrow" is disappearing fast.

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"It has officially said that flying is a "privilege" and that if you, in effect, don't want to chance being humiliated by TSA don't fly."

Jean, it is great to see you back after all these years. You have been missed. Just so everyone knows, legal precedent in the US establishes travel as a right, not a privilege. Air travel is sanctioned by the US government, but not owned by it, so this TSA claim of "privilege" is a fiction.

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Ha. MikeHuntz slowly changing his tune... hoping nobody will notice. Mike and Creosote started out calling TSA protestors all kinds of names, but now that that right has come out against the TSA, he is "adapting".

"why did he not say, look, do not pat me down, I have bladder cancer etc...this man sounds like an idiot! I feel sorry for the TSA guy doing this patting down stuff, sounds really gross."

Yeah. Blame the citizen. Pistole does this too. The citizen has NO DUTY to volunteer or state ANYTHING. Medical privacy allows people to walk through life choosing not to tell people that they use viagra, have implants, artificial hooters, and whatever else. Putting the burden on a citizen to just surrender to every mall cop who comes along is not America, its Gabon. Urine is a safe and almost sterile fluid, so there is no damage here beyond laundry bills, but there is humiliation.

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"“No one living with an `ostomy’ should be afraid of flying because they’re afraid of being humiliated,” she said."

Oh yes they should. Take one flight and your medical problem is not your own private affair any more. You thought pooping and peeing in a bag was the greatest affront to the dignity of an ill person? What about letting the world watch it spill all over you and have to smell it?

It is newsworthy because it is so illustrative of an agency created in panic and which has run absolutely out of control.

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You know, things like this are hard to avoid -the main thing is to learn from these kinds of incidents. Millions of passengers have to get screened. While TSA need to be trained for this sort of thing and be sensitive, you don't throw it out b/c of a very low incidence of these kinds of things.

It'd be similar to avoiding immunization b/c of the really low probability someone somewhere will react unfavorably. It happens but overall, it avoids severe diseases from afflicting millions of people. This is a somewhat similar scenario --a few people are affected, but overall, it serves the purpose of working to counteract terror plots on passenger aircraft.

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TSA..right up there with the IRS.

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Badsey, George W. Bush invented the TSA. He failed to protect America because he preferred taking vacations to working. He stayed on vacation and didn't read the memo that said Al Qaeda was getting ready to hijack American planes. He immediately responded to the disaster he allowed to happen by reading a book to school children and then creating the TSA. The TSA has nothing to do with Obama or healthcare or socialism. It was created by the Republican regime.

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By the way, this sort of treatment, along with the 10-fingerprint scan has stopped me from going to US. I've had to go for business, and last year to accompany my parents who were visiting a relative. But I now refuse to go there if possible. My mother was livid at the way immigration treated her. I personally have not had very bad experiences, but I've witnessed how some TSA guys would patronize and look down upon foreigners, including the Japanese (ironic, given that half the people working at US airports weren't even born there - I can tell from their accents). Such a shame because I've found that, after leaving the airport, people can be really nice and wonderful. Going there used to be great - until 9/11 came along. There are now other, more welcoming places to visit.

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Ha. MikeHuntz slowly changing his tune... hoping nobody will notice. Mike and Creosote started out calling TSA protestors all kinds of names, but now that that right has come out against the TSA, he is "adapting".

I mean yeah I think that these pat downs are necessary if you opt out of the scanners. However I expect a degree of professionalism from the people carrying them out. I never called those opposed to getting the pat down any names but commented that they can opt out to fly or take the scanners. It's you putting words in others mouth. You don't listen just like these TSA agents.

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Too many fools here listening to that idiot Rush, when TSA was made by GEORGE BUSH!! Nothing to do with Mr. Obama! TSA than the Bush administration who were asleep when AQ got NYC and the Pentagon!

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They are asking us to prostitute ourselves; agree to get fondled in return for the "privilege" of flying.

And imagine how rape victims must feel being fondled by these creeps.

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Thank Kein2 for the good word and the clarification. Good to be back. Been very bizzzzzy.

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The TSA should be dismantled. It should be taken appart brick by brick and replaced by a new security agency - one that has some grasp of the concepts of hospitality, courtesy, and decorum. It is impossible to make flying 100% safe - rather, our goal should be to get the best ratio of security to inconvenience possible.

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Special thanks for the african engineer student or whatever he was doing for putting explosives in his underwear around Christmas time last year. He totally changed the flying experience more stressful and annoying. I don't want to fly anymore just rent a car for now on.

Hurting & humiliating handicapped people is really sad !!!!!

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TSA pat-downs and scanners are not the answer to terrorist. Use dogs for sniffing and train TSA agents to sniff out the perpetrators. The old fashion way works better without costing manpower and machine.

They are stripping the individual rights that the Constitution govern. If people are naive enough to believe with the pat-downs and full body scan then they will let the government take away all their freedom and liberty in the next phase of security.

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Sad it has come to this. However, maybe they know something we do not. Why not put things where the sun don't shine? Even put something in the body. Plastic ... we may not have a choice for safety.

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Yet, they should have listened to this man's concerns.

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Long time sine the US was really the land of the free. Only need to look at the reams of laws making practically every form of behaviour an offence of some sort, the draconian pennalties cops have at their disposal (asset seizure anyone?, the way cops act towards suspects (look at all the shows on TV glorifying cops smacking down, tasering etc suspects) and the condescending way politicos treat the elctorate and you can see US is already pretty unfree and undemocratic.

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The underwear "bomber" (no blasting cap etc) was put on that plane by the State Department --> so now you have TSA agents making a claim to grab your crotch. The printer cartridge "bomb" was a "test" by an American identity.

This really has nothing to do with Obama, Bush or any President =It is not a political thing when you allow someone to grab your crotch. They are personally conditioning you for their tyranny and it will only get worse.

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People with DU have urine that is classified as "toxic waste" --> urine is not always safe.

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This is official. The terrorists won.

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Badsey: it will only get worse.

Agree. Next, colonoscopy for everyone.

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Having cancer already you most likely don't want the radiation from the scanner = You must submit yourself to the crotch-grab/urine bag pull.

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How many times a day do you all grab your own crotch per day? Honestly? Now, if you think, the person patting me down, checking that I do not have a knife, pistol, other weapon is just doing his job, trying to make sure no crazies get on the plane, then you all should be more relaxed and just imagine you are grabbing your own crotch or your favorite fetish etc..and that you are doing this not only for your own safety but for that of everyone else on board your same flight and then you will get this nice, warm, glowing feeling deep down inside, and maybe just maybe you can hum out loud the Star Spangled Banner, this is the last thing the terrorist want to see, happy Americans!

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"There was little if any indication of a passenger revolt"

Heck, most passengers still want to just get to where they wanna go.

Heck, what's worse, having urine on your clothes or your plane hijacked/blown up by a terrorist who got through security?

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elbuda - Good one.

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He totally changed the flying experience more stressful and annoying.

Actually no. It was the U.S. government and TSA that changed everything and with the approval of the reactionary paranoid public. You go letting the government do whatever on the basis of every one-off bizarre event that comes along, and this is what you wind up with. America has earned the stress and inconvenience by being sheep. America will change it all back the day start being wolves and stop bending over for the government.

Simply amazing that the guy tried to tell them about his condition but they refused to listen. Is that security? What if he was one of the terrorists they are looking for trying to tell them he had nitroglycerin under his clothes? I would think that the pair of ears each guard has would be considered a very useful tool for doing their duties. But my impression of airport security has been that these folks did not do well in school. As such they are not very good at security, sense, or customer service and need to go back to pumping gas.

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Oneforall:

" Sad it has come to this. However, maybe they know something we do not. Why not put things where the sun don't shine? Even put something in the body. Plastic ... we may not have a choice for safety. "

This has already been done. Check up on the suicide bomb attack on Saudi Prince Mohammed Bin Nayef. The suicide bomber had the device where the sun does not shine and TSA gropers can not find it.

The only sure way to prevent this would be a rectal exam of everybody. Are we ready for this, for the sake of avoiding profiling at all costs?

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Great.....Really not looking forward to this type of security......

I rather be sniffed by a police dog.....

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"I never called those opposed to getting the pat down any names but commented that they can opt out to fly or take the scanners. It's you putting words in others mouth. You don't listen just like these TSA agents. "

Well, I seem to remember you calling someone a "panicy little girl" for not wanting to fly. What is that, Mike? Putting words in your mouth? I think you are showing some of that trademarked "selective memory" that is so common with you wingnuts. I looked it up though. You did. You wrote that. "Never" as you say, was about a day ago.

Now that you find that the right-wing powers that be are using this protest for spin, you have changed your tune. I find it very revealing.

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"Heck, what's worse, having urine on your clothes or your plane hijacked/blown up by a terrorist who got through security?"

Um. Let me see. Do I get another choice?

If your name is Pistole, there is no other choice. In Pistole's world, the US has run out of options. Chertoff slipped him a few million to say that if anyone asked.

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In the next two days, one of two things will happen. Either Pistole will have succeeded with his little deflection campaign (protestors are only hurting other travellers, this is the only way, etc.) and the protests will fizzle and fade, or things will just get totally out of hand, with five or six jaw-dropping tales being discussed on turkey day.

If I were Pistole, I would tell my flunkies to back off for the next few days and then go back to groping as usual after Thanksgiving. The protest is not going to be popular, but I hope they pour it on. If opposition fades, then this will be the status quo, and these things never get rolled back. Fait accompli. Pistole will assume he has a mandate and will start fining people to shut them up. It works.

Just as an open question, do governments EVER give back rights to people once they have taken them? I suppose rationing is rescinded after a war, as is conscription. Prop. 13 was called a "revolt" against property taxes. And the Tea Party has not done anything yet. Anybody have some examples?

If refusing an x ray is probable cause demanding a search to protect public safety.... if American society accepts that... then what is next? Is there anything more private than our genitalia and medical status? Library, credit card records, Amazon shopping basket are all fair game, I guess... what is left but you refrigerator and living room?

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Heck, what's worse, having urine on your clothes or your plane hijacked/blown up by a terrorist who got through security?

Really? How much privacy/freedom would you be willing to give up?

what's worse, having gloved hand probe you or your plane hijacked/blown up by a terrorist who got through security?

what's worse, having your cell phone and e-mail records checked or your plane hijacked/blown up by a terrorist who got through security?

It seems soon enough the American government will almost literally have people bent over a barrel and liking it, all in the name security. Oh well, big government continues rolling forward.

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what's worse, having gloved hand probe you or your plane hijacked/blown up by a terrorist who got through security?

that is a gloved hand that has been probing others too. You could easily get a get a disease from this -herpes, crabs, lice. =There is a reason why (most) doctors change gloves after an exam.

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Soon they will be doing body cavity searches as part of their "security". The new TSA is going to be a haven for perverts and pedophiles. Refused to be humiliated and get arrested.

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Well, I seem to remember you calling someone a "panicy little girl" for not wanting to fly. What is that, Mike? Putting words in your mouth? I think you are showing some of that trademarked "selective memory" that is so common with you wingnuts. I looked it up though. You did. You wrote that. "Never" as you say, was about a day ago. Now that you find that the right-wing powers that be are using this protest for spin, you have changed your tune. I find it very revealing.

You are correct Klein, I did call you a panicy little girl a couple days ago. Not everyone opposed to it is being a panicy little girl like you are so I didn't call them any names. Tom Sawyer is not one. He is just a victim of unprofessional renta cops. You however with your foaming at the mouth multiple posts in a row does reek of that panicy little girl type who instead of going with reason is intent on foaming at the mouth. Why don't you grow up? Have you personally been through one of these security checks yourself?

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Going to America has been a ball ache for some time. I'm increasingly reluctant to go there and will avoid it if I can.

A lot of this stuff in the media is hype, but it's not nice going there, either the queues, the questions, and the general level of miserableness of trying to enter the country. Once you're in though, it's nice.

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(Pistole) noted the alleged attempt by a Nigerian with explosives in his underwear to bring down a plane over Detroit last Christmas.

Pistole's lame excuse to justify the use of body scanners or pat downs (e.g., the panty bomber) occurred on a flight that originated outside of the U.S. So, these techniques by the TSA rent-a-cop thugs (members of the The American Federation of Government Employees union, btw) are nothing more than "feel-good" political correctness gone wild.

Time for the U.S. to rid itself of the poltical correctness and start profiling; the type that's been successful for decades in Israel.

RR

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CEO of the company that the government uses our money to buy "backscatter x ray machines" from was a guest of President Obama's on the recent big-spending junket to India. Pure cronyism.

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Americans just can't get enough of terror, terror, terror. It's almost like a drug addict's fix.

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Americans' reaction is amazing. They have a far higher chance of being killed in a motorway accident than in an airliner terrorist attack and yet so many Americans are still apprehensive about flying but just fine about going for a drive. Pure irrational hysteria whipped up by george bush and his conservative cronies post 9-11.

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Pure cronyism.

TimRussert is starting to catch on. Next he will have the shocking revelation that the Republican Party is also a crony capitalist racket, and join the 20th century. If he works really hard he can even catch up to the 21st.

Of course this is cronyism. Does anybody seriously believe the purpose of these machines is anything other than making money?

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and yet so many Americans are still apprehensive about flying

As evidenced by these people going through pat downs and scanners. They are not flying. But to give you credit you have pegged many of the ones on JT correctly. Just listen to the panic about scanners and pat downs while ignoring the cause of those measures.

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Pure irrational hysteria whipped up by george bush and his conservative cronies post 9-11.

Bush left office almost two years ago. I flew back and forth many,many times during his 8 years in office. I flew back ten days after 9-11. There was nothing like this. This is just one more facet of the power grab the Democrats are trying to make. It must be hard for Obama's starry eyed devotees to swallow the sad fact that they once again unerringly went with the totalitarian choice.

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TimR, of course there was nothing like these security measures 10 days after 9-11. What did you expect: body scanners and xray devices in every major airport in 10 days? Who are you trying to kid? No, Americans sensibly got rid of the cause of this terror epidemic in America when they booted out the GOP in 2008. Pity it's a self-feeding hysteria.

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Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano can't wait to implement a police state, something her party and the authoritarian Left in America have long had in mind for the nation.

Yesterday, on the Charlie Rose show, she floated the idea that trains and buses and even maritime travel may well involve being scanned:

“[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,” Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on “Charlie Rose.”

“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

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What did you expect: body scanners and xray devices in every major airport in 10 days?

Nice effort there.But it is the low-tech gloved grope that really has people furious. Did you not read the headline? Had the Bush administration ordered TSA employees to grope travelers I am quite certain the number of Democrats who thought 9-11 was an inside job (37 percent I think it was) would have doubled.

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TimR - '...Janet Napolitano can't wait to implement a police state...authoritarian Left...' Seriously, there's more hysteria in the blogs than in the real world. Oh, by the way - terror. Be Scared.

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Does anyone else find it seriously ironic to see conservative posters hitting the roof about these security measures when you consider that these measures were only enacted after 9-11 - an event that happened after george bush - a conservative - let the atttackers in while sleeping at the wheel despite receiving repeated warnings that terrorists were going to use airliners to attack America? I guess you pay the price for who you vote for, and Americans are now witnessing the true cost of voting bush and the GOP in.

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Does anyone else find it seriously ironic to see conservative posters hitting the roof about these security measures when you consider that these measures were only enacted after 9-11 - an event that happened after george bush - a conservative - let the atttackers in while sleeping at the wheel

No I find it ironic that you blame this entirely on Bush but that these scanners and pat downs came about on Obama's watch after the undie bomber wanted to blow up a plane with a giant fart. All your hot air about Bush isn't very relative to these current measures. That's what I find ironic.

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Does anyone else find it seriously ironic to see conservative posters hitting the roof about these security measures when you consider that these measures were only enacted after 9-11

If you think it is only conservatives you probably also think 9-11 was an inside job; that "poverty" causes terror; and that Obama was fit to be our president in the continuation of the War on Islamist Terror because he was a community organizer or something.

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TimR - "...in the continuation of the War on Islamist Terror .."

You've got to love the capitalization. :-)

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You've got to love the capitalization. :-)

Defeated at every turn SS3 turns to the trivial...

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Tel Aviv, terror capital of the world, does not even use backscatter machines. Some individuals are making a ton of cash off these worthless machines that don't even detect bombs.

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Some individuals are making a ton of cash off these worthless machines that don't even detect bombs.

Obama took the CEO of the company peddling them to India, on the taxpayer's dime.

These Democrats did not learn the lessons the mid term election would have taught patriotic American politicians.

The long lines at these invasive insulting checkpoints will become like town hall meetings.

In effect, nothing ensures the Tea Party Movement will stay alive quite like this latest manifestation of liberal fascism.

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These people say they feel nothing now. But of the millions passing, a few will have severe reactions later. And what about people who travel frequently for work? How much exposure is ok?

My country has become a nation of people too terrified to demand that their government do the right thing. In that case Americans deserve whatever poor treatment they receive from the government.

If you disagree you have a responsibility to make yourself heard.

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While they're at it, the Bush admin should never had created Homeland Security Dept. That should be repealed too.

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Blaming presidents is so lame. If they don't institute these procedures and something happens, they are blamed. If they do institute such procedures they are blamed. It's a no-win situation for anyone. As for those passengers who claim nothing bothers them as long as it for the common good, what about cavity searches next ? You down with that ?

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Why not just scan Muslims?

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Sushi. The conservatives posting are showing their true colors as sock puppets for whatever conservative mouthpiece is the flavor of the month.

Last December, they were jumping all over Napolitano for something that happened in Nigeria. So Chertoff makes several million peddling his goods to the TSA and now they found a bandwagon to get on in bashing Obama for a "police state". Look at their post history and it is clear as day. MikeHuntz did a huge about-face in just the last day or so. TimR and MrCreosote were arguing different ways for days until their got their party line straight. It is all in the post-history. These guys don't think for themselves.

I used to give them the benefit of the doubt. I assumed they were honest and sincere. That they just did not know any better. Now I see it is all a cynical game with them to just blame anything on Obama and say Bush is not to blame. They don't even think about it. Just trolls. Straight up.

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I am interested to see what happens. I am actually intrigued to see the right and left coming together on this, as they should. Rights are something that moderates do not care too much about, which was working out ok when the courts were doing their job. And now here we are: we have TimRussert cheering for the ACLU, which is nice to see. I want to see more attention to rights from the libertarians like Ron Paul is doing. This IS the libertarians' fight after all. You know fiscal conservatism could be a big success if someone in the GOP could just suggest cutting the military budget, but that will never happen.

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"Did you not read the headline? Had the Bush administration ordered TSA employees to grope travelers I am quite certain the number of Democrats who thought 9-11 was an inside job"

I agree tim. Given the choice between an inside job and utter incompetence we all know where the Bush admin likely stand...

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Right now John Pistole is the most dangerous enemy of democracy in the United States. TSA (aka Totally Stupid A**h***s) has become a virtual Gestapo under his rule. Note that the current fill body scanner / grope n' poke tactics of TSA were kept secret until they were suddenly sprung on the public. There is a question of whether the scanners are safe. There is no question that groping passengers is perverse. Also be advised that that if you refuse the scanners and the groping you will be taken into custody and held for an indeterminate time as a terrorist suspect--and you'll also be barred from flying.

John Pistole is creating an empire of terror for himself through TSA, an organization that has been useless since its founding and ought to be disbanded. Arrogant and contemptuous of the public, John Pistole is a latter day Joe McCarthy who ought to be fired immediately.

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Lawyers representing private citizens suing TSA gropers and Nanny State apparatchiks keep uncovering the same thing - - the decision to implement these police state tactics came from the top. Obama is behind this.

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MikeHuntz did a huge about-face in just the last day or so.

No I didn't. I'm for the scanners. Not the pat downs. But you liberals just turn into screaming girls as soon as the scanners come up and so have to have pat downs. So I think that's pretty funny myself. That said I think that pat downs should be done professionally and the TSA staff should be professional of which they were not in the case of Tom Sawyer. I don't think you were listening to me which is typical of a liberal.

I used to give them the benefit of the doubt. I assumed they were honest and sincere. That they just did not know any better. Now I see it is all a cynical game with them to just blame anything on Obama and say Bush is not to blame. They don't even think about it.

Sorry but I had to laugh. Oh ok I'll join your rhetoric. Bush is to blame for all of this and Obama has nothing to do with it. Bush is controlling the TSA and is getting rich off of the scanning machines.

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When we give up our civil liberties to be safer instead of creating a safer environment where we can enjoy our civil liberties. We deserve what we get.

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elbud...tell me you were not being serious when you were saying we should pretend that we are grabbing ourselves or enjoying our favourite fetish while being groped by a complete stranger. Hey, you should probably look for a job as a counsellor for victims of sexual assaults...you seem to have a handle on how to make people feel better about being felt up against their will. Cripes...are you for real???

And before you go saying that man was an idiot for the TSA breaking the seal on his colostomy bag, why don't you actually read the reports and watch the news where it was clearly stated that he told them and asked them to be careful but they didn't want to listen to him?

It is sad to say that this kind of security has been deemed necessary, and I am actually fine with it if it happens to screen out potential disasters (would love to know if it has ever worked or not). The problem is, the TSA agents often seem to act like ignorant power-trippers and make the experience far worse than it needs to be. They could easily do a pat-down without making the passenger feel humiliated or like a criminal. It is called professionalism. I still cannot figure out why security staff at American airports can't seem to get a handle on doing a job, doing it well and not being an a****le about it.

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"Also be advised that that if you refuse the scanners and the groping you will be taken into custody and held for an indeterminate time as a terrorist suspect--and you'll also be barred from flying."

It is true. 48 hours they can hold you without a lawyer, without a charge, without a phone call.

In a post a long long time ago, like Monday, I told about the Penn and Teller incident. He objected to what they they did. They told him they needed to call a supervisor if he had a complaint. He said ok. They immediately told him there would be a delay (hinting he would miss his flight). A supervisor came and he complained about how he had been touched. They then told him he could file a complaint, but "they would have to view the surveillance tape" and that he would "probably miss his flight". He told them to do it because he had a private jet available anyway. Then. Only then...did they become very apologetic and accommodating. They offered to have a supervisor at the gate every time he came to the airport if he just calls in advance.

That is what plutocracy means. And THAT is the tender mercy that one can expect if the TSA gets their way.

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"I'm for the scanners. Not the pat downs.""

But what happens when the scanner shows an "irregularity"? The person is then sent for a grope. It's not just people who fear excess radiation (flight crews,cancer patients/survivors, frequent travellors, etc.) who get the enhanced hand search. It's anyone who voluntarily takes the scan, but the scan picked up on something.

Something like a panty liner,... google: "TSA Groin Searches Menstruating Woman"

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Just one or two recalcitrant passengers...

If this is supposed to stop terrorism in the US, then why are Americans being scanned and patted down? Why are they allowing the Muzzies to scream blue-murder for being touched and allowing them to fore-go the security checks that should apply to ALL human beings?!

My friends invited me to holiday in the US for Thanksgiving and Christmas this year, but I turned both invites down. Until the American authorities that run this facade get over their paranoia, I'll not be returning to the USA anytime soon.

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This is Security Theater. I don't think that every knee-jerk reaction to attempts (ie, removing shoes after the shoe bomber)makes us safer....tarmac crew, maintenance people and the people who deliver those yummy dinners (snicker) and baggage handlers are not subjected to security other than their initial background check. They don't go through any of the checkpoints, or X-ray machines. That's a couple of hundred or more, depending on airport size, people who are allowed free access to aircraft, inside and out, with NO security checks on a daily basis. But they send pilots and flight crew through! Who has more opportunity to smuggle something on board, a pilot who has to go through standard security, or a baggage handler or caterer with an axe to grind?

They're full of crap about the machines not storing images...an actor in Spain was asked to sign his backscatter X-ray image by several airport employees.

In no other situation in the US are you strip-searched (virtually or otherwise) or aggressively patted down without a warrant, or at least 'reasonable cause'. Simply boarding a plane is not 'reasonable cause'.I assume people are putting up with it because it makes them feel safer, whether they really are safer or not is debatable...

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I read an article recently that confirmed every one of my worst suspicions about the TSA. The agents patting you down are mostly part-time workers who aren't afforded full-time status until they've graduated through the part-time ranks for so long (I forget the time period). The ceiling for these workers is $41K, a big chunk of which goes back into their health care plan. The point is, we, as customers, are expecting to be treated as humans by people who are paid like sh*t, have little promotion potential, a crappy health care plan, and a day full of pissed off customers to look forward to. We're not going to be treated like humans by the TSA until they make working for the TSA an attractive enough of a job to get people with better customer service skills.

Taka

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We're not going to be treated like humans by the TSA until they make working for the TSA an attractive enough of a job to get people with better customer service skills.

I agree with this but unfortunately in the USA better customer service is needed in many occupations not only the TSA. It's just the norm in the States.

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