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Turkey-Russia spat over downed Russian warplane escalates

30 Comments
By SUZAN FRASER and VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV

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@WC Last but not least, the Saudis

That might be more difficult if you believe this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bush,_House_of_Saud

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

In USA, many people roasted Turkey for Thanks giving day.

They sure did. But the commander-in-retreat still blames Putin and Russia's actions for their meddling in ISIS/Syria affairs. Meanwhile, the russians and french are plotting. Soon to join- Royal Air Force, UK.

Why didn't the administration allow for the Turks to bomb Kurds immediately after the Turkish gov. gave permission to the US to use Turkey's airbases?

Why did the administration give the French intel (Raqqa) so suddenly after Fri.13th Terror Attacks? Why is turkey an ally?

Drop them and Pakistan like a hot potato. Last but not least, the Saudis. Who sit back, watch and eat popcorn as the ME drama plays out.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I'm with you on this heynong.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

In USA, many people roasted Turkey for Thanks giving day. There is only one lucky special Turkey will be pardoned by the President. This President is US President. Not Russian! That very special Turkey will avoid the cruel fate of ending up on the dining table of Americans.

Although I am not the fan of Putin, I am so disgusted about helpless pilot parachuting was shot down by Allahu Abakar Rebels. Very unlikely Russian President will pardon the Turkey for living as other free birds. Putin will definitely roast, grill, bake and deep fry that bird.

According UN Charters, defensiveness pilot can not be shot unless self defense. Turkey backed Syrian rebels ate Syrian soldier heart before. If Russian pilot has been killed and eaten like that, I do not mind whether Putin will cook for thanks giving day or giving his dogs for special treat, that bird is well deserved for his barbaric manner.

The course of Putin is not depending on others!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The world should have been alerted to the reality of the Islamist govt in Turkey when months ago they dragged their feet and put up all manner of demands before they would even consider joining the fight against the murderous ISIS which was and is just across their border. One would have thought it would be Turkey begging for help against ISIS, but no. And when the opportunity came to strike at the most effective force yet against ISIS, Russia, they shot down that plane and the "moderate" opposition to Assad took pot shots at the parachuting pilots while laughing and shouting "Allahu Akhbar!". ENOUGH! NATO should be ashamed to call Turkey a member. I hope Russia exacts the appropriate punishment on the treacherous Islamist state of Turkey.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There are several ways to measure the democratic level of a country. One is the Democracy Index, compiled by the Economist Intelligence Unit, affiliated with the British journal, The Economist. This places countries into four ranks: full democracies, flawed democracies, hybrid regimes, and authoritarian regimes. The group ranks Turkey as the third with a score of 5.12, putting it between Kenya and Lebanon. Russia achieved a score of 3.39, putting it between Cameroon and Angola. (For comparison, Syria got a 1.74 and North Korea bottomed out the list with a 1.08.)

Another way to look at it is that Erdogan would likely relinquish office if push came to shove, but the only way Putin will leave the Kremlin is feet-first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

0 ( +3 / -3 )

...and now AP reports that Erdogan now claims Turkey did not know the plane was Russian. So what did they think they were shooting down? An ISIS airforce plane?.... oops sorry, the ISIS airforce is de facto Turkey.

At least the islamist Erdogan regime has now shown its true colors in a what that is hard even for blinkered mainstream press to ignore.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

In my opinion Turkey is at fault. You dont shoot your neighbour bomber jet whose without escort for passing a small strip of territory. Refer bbc news. Russia is second largest trading partner while turkey is one of the biggest foreign destinations for russian tourists. Russia is not Turkey enemy. If turkey not belong to NATO, Turkey will think twice to do it. Turkey was so reluctance to help others race except its own turkoman at north syria. If only Americam let ISIS slaughter turkoman then turkey will respond. Not ready to tackle neighbour radical group but ready to tackle and antagonize Mother Russia juat because they been feud for hundred of years. This erdogan n turkish are crazy.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Erdogan has and is supporting the ISIS. The same ISIS which went off on a killing spree a few weeks ago, has brought down an airliner

if I think Putin supports Ukrainian rebels who blew up an airliner, does that mean I support Turkey flying into Russian airspace and creating incidents?

These are two separate issues. No one here supports what Turkey is doing in Syria. I've never had a kind word for them about it. But Russia decided to play a dangerous game multiple times (this was not the first time they were accused of violating Turkish airspace) and only bad things can happen. Just because Russia found out that the response was worse that what they had anticipated doesn't make me feel sympathy for them, and it doesn't mean I support what Turkey is doing with ISIS.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Turkey is clearly much more of a democracy than Russia

How?

That is, he is not much different from Putin

Contradiction?

Erdogan has and is supporting the ISIS. The same ISIS which went off on a killing spree a few weeks ago, has brought down an airliner, killed, raped and maimed thousands of people for belonging to a different religion, sect or race.

Kindly enlighten us what parameters you are using to make a comparison. .

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Assuming the dust does settle, China's looking to come out ahead in MENA while all the nations involved continue to spend money they can't afford to spend and bury their own.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the refugee:

" You get into a war, and planes are going to get shot down and people are going to die. "

But Russia did NOT get into a war with Turkey. Russia is flying over Syrian territory, with permission of the Syrian government. That is why it was a reasonable assumption that it would not be attacked by Turkish planes over Syrian territory.

That Turkey now attacks other nations planes outside its territory is a new ballgame.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Turkey is clearly much more of a democracy than Russia, but many (including I) were dismayed with their reelection of Erdogan, a megalomaniac intent on shaping Turkey in his own image. That is, he is not much different from Putin. From now, though, it looks like its going into a clandestine war. Putin will likely more aggressively target Turkmen and other Turkish allies in the region, and Erdogan will likely feed them with more arms - perhaps even surface to air missiles. This will get interesting. Really, though: a pox on both of their houses. Neither find ISIS their primary target.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@the refugee "Are you truly that naive?"

You have to understand. Putin said that he had considered Turkey "friendly" prior to the accident. And nobody asked whether he was naive or not. So, right now many people see Turkey as an ally of ISIS.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@the refugee "Are you truly that naive?"

You have to understand. Putin said that he had considered Turkey "friendly" prior to the accident. And nobody asked whether he was naive or not. So, right now many people see Turkey as an ally of ISIS.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Putin said that Russians considered Turkey friendly.

Are you truly that naive?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@the refugee"its a really risky plan to fly jet warplanes on an unfriendly country's borders."

I have just watched TV report. On recent meeting with Holland, Putin answered questions of journalists. Speaking about SU-24 accident, Putin said that Russians considered Turkey friendly. That is why bombers flew without escort of interceptors.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Well, we cannot agree or disagree that the Russian WARPLANE did or did not enter Turkish airspace. What proof do we have?

But I think we can all agree that Russia had been playing chicken with Turkish airspace for quite some time. We can agree they played with fire and they finally got burnt. Can we not all agree on that?

Look, its a really risky plan to fly jet warplanes on an unfriendly country's borders and drop bombs just off that razor's edge. No matter what excuse you have for it, YOU KNOW its a big risk. Russia gambled. All told, Russia is still ahead in its war aims. Russia's whining is pretty petty really. You get into a war, and planes are going to get shot down and people are going to die. Random stuff will happen and people will die. If you expected less from war, maybe you should just stay home and play with your toys.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Cue Saudis laughing their man boobs off.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@SuperLib"If the bully on the playground pushes people around I don't think the proper response is to stab him. But I also feel no symphathy for the bully".

This is a pure liberal viewpoint. "ISIS thugs beheaded many innocent people. This is not good. The Russians started to bomb ISIS thugs. Oh, that's really bad ! The only solution is to file a complaint on Assad and let the international tribunal make a decision !"

0 ( +4 / -4 )

If Turkey closes the Straits of Bosporus to Russia, they'll have to go the long way around to get to their port in Syria.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@dcog9065

The world knows how much the Russians like shooting down civilian airliners

A lie repeated many times would not become a truth, however hard you try.

@SuperLib

They knew they were antagonizing Turkey

That's true. Russians disrupted the oil smuggling business with ISIS, protected by Erdogan's sonny. I understand Erdogan's fury at such a damage to the family business.

Had they not gone into Turkish airspace multiple times

It happened once, for several seconds, due to bad weather, Russians apologized. Then what about Turkish warplanes, intruding in neighbouring countries to bomb Kurds, are these planes are legitimate targets? And US planes, intruding into Syrian air space without any permissionl and doing whatever they want, are they also legitimate targets?

And by the way, for the last years Greeks complained about several dozens (if not hundreds) of incursions into their air space by Turkish planes. After that Turks look even more hypocrite liars.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

If the bully on the playground pushes people around I don't think the proper response is to stab him. But I also feel no sympathy for the bully. It's his choice to go around picking fights and he loses the right to complain when the other kid doesn't respond the "proper" way. The best choice is for the bully not to start anything in the first place and then he has a guarantee that there is no response.

My guess is Russia miscalculated. They knew they were antagonizing Turkey on the airspace issue but they thought they could keep getting away with it. Now their complaint is that Turkey didn't respond to their provocation in a way they were anticipating. Had they not gone into Turkish airspace multiple times in the past this wouldn't have happened.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

@ThePbot"They were just waiting for it to happen".

Seems to be true. Their reporters were ready too. They filmed downed airplane from various points and angles. It was a planned and prepared provocation.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

" Erdogan lamented Russia’s intention to halt economic cooperation with Turkey, saying political leaders should talk first. “We are strategic partners,” he said. "

Oh really? How about talking first before shooting down your partners airplanes, Mr. Erdogan? What a hypocrite.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Well, if the Russian plane entered Turkish airspace there should be no problem at all in shooting it down. The world knows how much the Russians like shooting down civilian airliners, so it's comically ironic to hear Putin weeping like a child

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

The fact that part of Erdogan's addressing of this issue included mentioning how the Russians are bombing Turkmen (considered part of their Turkic family) opposition in Syria, and prior repeated warnings of not to bomb those positions, is quite revealing already. So I don't believe that Turkey "didn't know" it was a Russian warplane. They knew what they were doing. They were just waiting for it to happen, and apparently it only takes less than 20 seconds for them to be trigger happy.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Don`t be a turkey Turkey.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Turkey has released audio recordings of what it says are the Turkish military’s repeated warnings to the pilot of a Russian bomber before it was shot down at the border with Syria.

But they refuse to hand over any material directly to Russian officials, so they might not be authentic.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

"We showed restraint. We didn't shoot the plane after only a couple of seconds like what the media says. It was seventeen whole seconds. Do you know how long that is? That's almost twenty seconds long!".

7 ( +11 / -4 )

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