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Syria says it shot down Turkish air force jet

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Now you did it! The rebels have no air support. They know it had to be a fighter from another country. Now the Syrian forces are shooting at aircraft? Your time is going to come! Democracy for the people! Syrian President Bashar Assad your going down...

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Did or did not the plane violate Syrian airspace? The article doesn't seem to clarify that key point.

Erdogan said the plane went down in the Mediterranean Sea about 8 miles (13 kilometers) away from the Syrian town of Latakia

8 miles from a Syrian town over the sea?

My understanding is that 12 miles constitutes exclusive airspace.

So that's 4 miles within Syrian airspace.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Correction, sovereign airspace is actually 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the coast. So the Turkish jet was 9 km within Sovereign Syrian territory.

Tough luck, any other country would have done the same.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

So the Turkish jet was 9 km within Sovereign Syrian territory.

That is where the plane went down. It does not necessarily mean that is where the plane was hit or shot at. It could have been shot outside Syrian territory and gone down in Syrian territory. As you said, the article does not seem to clarify whether the plane violated Syrian airspace or not. So, your "tough luck, any country would have done the same" is rather premature.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

RT and PressTV are openly reporting that the plane was well within Syrian airspace.

It's notable too that the Tukish authorities haven't said anything to the contrary.

I find it interesting also that with their army of researches and fact-checkers you'd think the AP would be able to establish whether or not the plane was within Syria airspace.

How could they omit such a key question?

If the plane went down 9km from the Syrian border are you claiming that it was shot over 15 km away outside of Syrian airspace and then it coasted for 15 km into Syrian airspace?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

RT and PressTV

Weren't these your 'sources' for reports of hundreds of French soldiers being supposedly captured in Syria a while back? Not really very reliable sources.

then it coasted for 15 km into Syrian airspace?

Certainly possible. It would not be the first time a plane attempted not to crash before doing so. How about waiting for some actual information before deciding?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Interesting! Why would it do that?

Ciao, how many is this for you now? Anyway, perhaps it was shot and crashing? It was not shot over the houses. It flew over the houses after being shot.

and considering it was flying very low!!!

Flying or losing altitude. Considering it was shot, the latter is quite likely.

Perhaps stop invading Syrian territory.

We do not know that is what happened yet. Why would you form the opinion that it did with no evidence to support it?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ben, according to all reports the Turkish air force suddenly lost contact with the plane. That doesn't fit with your being hit and then coasting for 15 km into Syrian territory theory.

Moreover, even assuming your 15km damaged coasting theory is correct. Why was the plane flying in the direction of Syrian airspace anyways.

Can you find any so-called "reliable" news source that is claiming that the plane was indeed well outside of Syrian airspace when it was shot down?

Not even the Turkish authorities have stated that. You'd think they would say that at the beginning if it were true. But they don't refer to the legality of the airspace at all. Can you figure out why.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Never Submit

The article does make clear Syria's allegations of a violation into its waters. One kilometer. This supports my supposition much more than it does yours or Mr. Ciao's.

Syria claimed the jet violated its air space over territorial waters, penetrating about 1 kilometer, but that Syrian vessels joined the search for it, according to Turkey’s NTV television. It said Syria forces realized that it was a Turkish jet after firing at it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ben, according to all reports the Turkish air force suddenly lost contact with the plane. That doesn't fit with your being hit and then coasting for 15 km into Syrian territory theory.

Why? You know something about planes that makes this impossible? You do not think it is possible for the radio to stop working or other vital equipment when a plane is hit?

Anyway, Syria knows they screwed up. I highly doubt they'll be shooting down any more planes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

BTW, as is if often done by JT, this article (the one that Ben is quoting) is the second,updated version. The first didn't have any reference to territorial waters.

If you notice the quote that I took from the article is now gone. As the story develops the article is being revised but the comments are the same.

I'm still waiting for any reference whatsoever for the plane being outside of Syrian airspace when shot down.

Any link or credible source Ben?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Both sides are claiming things. I have not seen anything I would call credible, yet. As I said, it is premature to suggest definitely one way or the other. However, did not know the plane they shot down was Turkish. I highly doubt they would have shot it down if they did know it was Turkish.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

foreign-built jet the turkish air force bought was shot down with a weapons system that syria purchased or was given to them by russia?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

that syria purchased or was given to them by russia?

@state broken people, it is too early to confirm, but we suspect it was from Russia.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Where the actual equipment is from is not so relevant I think.

International rules on this matter are clear.

Military aircraft violating sovereign airspace are subject to being shot down.

Every pilot and air force officer knows this.

Syria was well within their rights to shoot down a foreign fighter jet invading its airspace.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Syria was well within their rights to shoot down a foreign fighter jet invading its airspace.

Maybe yes. Maybe no. One thing is for sure. They will not be doing it again.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Where the actual equipment is from is not so relevant I think.

because examining just who it is that aids and abets the murderous thug assad explodes certain silly cherished notions and conspiracies you hold.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This does not make sense. It flew close to the roof tops in Turkey. It was flying low before it was shot at in Syrian waters.

Ummm...Ciao, it makes sense if you look at a map. The Turkish area described is right across the border from the Latakia area in Syria.

Did they send this plane to test Syria's defenses?

No need. If NATO wanted to get involved, Syria would be pulverized. No doubt.

Indeed, the entire Syrian crisis is mainly due

Nope. the entire Syrian crisis is due to baby Assad not being able to handle protests and reacting violently to them. It is due to him promising reforms and then backing out on them. It is due to some people being tired of one family ruling them with an iron fist. It is not due to your fantasies which always seem to involve Israel in one way or another.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ben your pet theories about the plane floating over 15km after being hit is cute but can you explain why the Turkish government hasn't refuted Syria's claim that the plane was well within their territory.

Wouldn't you expect the Turkish government to refute that claim if it were not true.

“Following the evaluation of data provided by our related institutions and the findings of the joint search and rescue efforts with Syria, it is understood that our plane was downed by Syria,” the statement said, without providing other details.

They issued a carefully worded statement, but the didn't mention anything about the location of the plane or whether the action taken by Syria was illegal.

Almost a whole day has passed since this happened? Any evidence yet Ben or just more wild speculation? Surely, Syria's opponents would be able to muster a counter claim by now if the plane had indeed been outside Syrian territory.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Looks like NATO is just trying to tease Syria along with their CIA-managed rebel subversion ampaign.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/middleeast/cia-said-to-aid-in-steering-arms-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all

Two weeks ago, it was broadly claimed that the Syrian rebels are purely domestic and that there was no Western intervention.

That theory seems to be crumbling now, as it's being widely reported now that the CIA has been aiding, supplying and training the rebels. Which is against international law.

However, Syria's shoot down of an invading plane was within international law and the Turks know it.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Ben your pet theories about the plane floating over 15km after being hit is cute but can you explain why the Turkish government hasn't refuted Syria's claim that the plane was well within their territory.

Never Submit, you have to ask the Turkish government that question. I certainly have not ruled out any possibilities. I am merely suggesting that it might be better to wait until we have more information before making a judgement. Even the Syrian government is only suggesting the Turkish plane was only one kilometer in their territory. If true, that is not really 'well within'. It is 'in'.

Any evidence yet Ben or just more wild speculation?

What exactly is 'wild' about what I have suggested? It is not like I have said there are foreigners running around Syria speaking foreign languages and then when asked have no proof of this whatsoever. I merely suggested one possibility and it is not that far fetched at all. As I said, neither side has presented any real evidence yet. You certainly have not presented any credible evidence, yet.

Two weeks ago, it was broadly claimed that the Syrian rebels are purely domestic and that there was no Western intervention.

Ummm...we have been saying your claims of foreigners running around the streets of Syria speaking foreign languages are completely unsustantiated. You never backed those up. I have not seen anyone suggesting the rebels are not getting help from the outside. There have been plenty discussions about that. What many have been saying is that your claims that this is not a homegrown group fall far short. They still do.

The Turkish plane was only one kilometer inside Syrian territory according to Syria. If true, do you really think shooting the plane down was the best course of action for Syria, especially when you consider the Syrians did not seem to know who the plane belonged to? I guarantee the Syrians regret doing this.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Haha, maybe he was trying to defect! Good thing Jordan doesn't do that.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Some of you are bickering over fairly inconsequential details. The thing is, they chose to shoot it down. You have to wonder why the plane was well inside Syrian airspace in the first place, but actually firing on it is a fairly extraordinary thing to do. The Syrian regime are completely thumbing their nose at the international community right now. They are openly killing their people in front of UN observers, and now this. Russia should be ashamed of itself right now.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Tamarama,

We do not know conclusively that the Turkish plane was in fact in Syrian airspace or not. However, let's say it was. one kilometer is hardly "well in" it is just "in". As I mentioned earlier, I think it was extraordinary for Syria to shoot the plane down. I do not think they knew who they were shooting at. However, I believe the general protocol is to attempt contact with the aircraft and to try and force it to land, not blow it out of the sky. I agree with you on that point and your point about the Syrian regime thumbing their noses at the international community. However, it is nothing new for the Assad family.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, whatever the protocol, with Saudi Arabia now on record supporting ground operations in Syria and Turkey now keyed to provide air support. the current regime might want to take a renewed look at their offer for asylum.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ben, if Turkey is benign and innocent why would they even go close to the border. It's a clear provocation and a betrayal of international norms and procedures to enter another country's airspace with an armed military aircraft.

Turkey tried to test and tease Syria. Syria called their bluff and Turkey lost.

If you play with fire, you're going to get burned.

Too bad for Turkey, next time I hope they think twice before entering the sovereign airspace of another country.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

if Turkey is benign and innocent why would they even go close to the border.

I don't know whether Turkey is benign and innocent or not. I also do not know if it is standard procedure to fly close to the airspace of a country you are not at war with or not. However, I think it is not particularly unusual for aircraft and even military aircraft to fly close to the airspace of countries you are not at war with. According to the Syrian government, if true, that it was only one kilometer.

Turkey tried to test and tease Syria.

Maybe. Maybe not. Personally, I do not think Turkey has any desire to get involved militarily, at least not directly.

next time I hope they think twice before entering the sovereign airspace of another country.

Don't worry. There is no way Syria will be shooting down another plane.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"Ben, if Turkey is benign and innocent why would they even go close to the border"

Heh, are you kidding? One of your many baseless allegations on this conflict was Blackwater agents slipping through borders. Surely you can grasp that a country in civil war makes residents wish to flee - every country bordering Syria will have quadrupled their border surveillance.

Really, you're slipping. I still don't believe that you believe what you're peddling, more like attention seeking.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Syria has already apologized for shooting down the Turkish reconnaissance aircraft (not a warplane) and both countries started a joint search and rescue operation for missing pilots.

It might have been a technical accident (as Syrians claim it) or a "momentary lapse of reason".

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Turkish reconnaissance aircraft (not a warplane)

The F4 Phantom isn't a warplane? Nevertheless, just because it was on a reconnaissance flight doesn't mean it gets some kind of Red Cross protection and it's exempt from attack. Military Reconnaissance aircraft are legitimate targets and I expect that any other country would take the same action if a combat grade "reconnaissance" plan entered invited into their airspace.

Some eyewitnesses in Turkey’s seaside area of Hatay province told private NTV television that the plane was flying so low they thought it would “hit the roofs.” They said the plane then flew toward the sea.

Look at a map and note that the eyewitnesses said the plane flew "towards the sea", that means south. These eyewitness accounts are of the plane leaving Turkey, flying south, towards it's intended target of Syria. The "theory" that these eyewitness accounts are post shoot down are laughable since they come from a Turkish town and the sea, as well as Syria are south.

These eyewitness accounts, the fact that the plane was taken down by lowly artillery and the fact that it came down 9 miles from a Syrian town all point to an intentionally provocative act by the Turkish Air Force.

The F4 combat aircraft was flying low, uninvited, deep within sovereign waters.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Never Submit,

You keep missing a valuable point. Syria did not know the plane was Turkish when they shot it down. If they did, they would not have shot it down.

In addition, Syria has apologized to Turkey for shooting down the plane. Your bravado is only yours. Syria does not share it. As I said, Syria will not be shooting down any more planes.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ben, then the Syrians say it was correct for them to shoot them down. Of course this comes as no surprise to me, after all they are friends with the Russians. They have shot down at least 2 airliners both from Korea.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yuri,

Yes, you are correct. The Syrians are saying they acted within international laws in shooting down the plane. However, they have also said that they had no idea who they were shooting down. They have also apologized to Turkey and assisted in trying to find the plane. Syrian definitely does not want to involve Turkey and have things escalate further. As I have said before, I guarantee Syria will not be shooting down any more planes.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Syria did not know the plane was Turkish when they shot it down. If they did, they would not have shot it down.

So they thought - it's an american plane ?

In addition, Syria has apologized to Turkey for shooting down the plane.

Can you give some links to Syrian official issues?

As I said, Syria will not be shooting down any more planes.

Sorry - it's only YOUR personal opinion....

However, they have also said that they had no idea who they were shooting down

It's not possible when you using only info from radar.

They have also apologized to Turkey

links please !! to Syrian official issues

I guarantee Syria will not be shooting down any more planes.

And if not ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

to YuriOtani

Ben, then the Syrians say it was correct for them to shoot them down.

Of cause - military plans (civilian aircrafts don't fly so fast) entering in air space without permission...

Why not ?

Of course this comes as no surprise to me, after all they are friends with the Russians. They have shot down at least 2 airliners both from Korea.

1 And you know that US shot down Iranian airliner (1988) ? And NOt in US air space of cause...

2

They have shot down at least 2 airliners both from Korea.

You must add - that both of them was shot down over Russian territory AFTER entering restricted area and REFUSING to land down...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Olegek,

Yes, I am offering my opinions. This is an opinion-centered discussion. I am quite clear when I offer opinions and when I offer facts. RT news, one of Never Submit's and your favorite sources reported that Syria apologized. Given the record of that source, I can understand your being suspicious. Turkey and Syria are planning to meet soon. Perhaps it will become clearer after that.

As to why my opinion is that Syria will not be shooting any more planes down, it is my opinion that Syria does not want to expand the conflict to directly include other countries. Also, other countries are now aware that Syria might shoot them down. Turkey had no reason to think their plane would be shot down. They are not at war with Syria.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ben, if Syria would invade Turkey a member of NATTO, it will be all over for them. There is not a snowballs chance in Hades they would survive the counterattack. The problem with your argument is they did not ID the target.

Olegek, the Russians could see they were civilian airliners. The Russians said they tried to communicate but did not use the frequency of air traffic control. Then their words would of been recorded. My view is they wanted to kill all of those people as an object lesson. Oh Yes the American cruiser shot down an Iranian Airbus while in Iran waters itself. They made a faulty ID of the target just like Syria. Second the Iranian airliner had all rights to over fly them in their own airspace.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The problem with your argument is they did not ID the target.

Yuri,

You seem to think we disagree about something. Actually, we seem to agree pretty much completely on this one. I wrote a few times above that Syria do not know whose plane it was. Here is one of my quotes from above:

Syria did not know the plane was Turkish when they shot it down.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ben Jack

Olegek, Yes, I am offering my opinions. This is an opinion-centered discussion

Sorry - in this case you should say about future actions of Syrian army, as I think or in my opinion... But - " I guarantee Syria will not be shooting down any more planes."

Sounds as you are commander in chief of Syrian Army....or Bashar Assad himself ...

As to why my opinion is that Syria will not be shooting any more planes down, it is my opinion

SO - it's your opinion

RT news, one of Never Submit's and your favorite sources reported that Syria apologized.

In such case only Syrian officials can be quoted....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ok Ben, heard on the news today the Turks said it was over international airspace.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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