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© 2017 AFPTurkey, U.S. can turn Raqa into 'graveyard' for IS: Erdogan
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© 2017 AFP
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CrazyJoe
Tell Erodgan to stuff it, bar them from joining the EU and boot them from NATO.
Naumov Danila
Russia, as every other country, should mind their own nation and not be eager to wreak havoc unto another one. Blant statistics hardly reflect harsh and multidimensional reality.
Naumov Danila
And yes, boot Ergodan further from the civilized part of the world.
nandakandamanda
In Syria,
Terrorists to Assad, Russia and Iran are anyone anti-Assad, and IS, and some neutral humanitarian groups like the white helmets.
Terrorists, to the US, are al-Qaida and al-Nusra radical rebels, and IS.
Terrorists to Turkey are IS, and Kurdish PKK and related Syrian Kurdish YPG.
Terrorists to Israel are Hezbollah.
Terrorists to the Kurds are IS and the Turkish government.
Not much common ground.
lostrune2
Why are you limiting the offensive on Aleppo to just 1 month (Nov 2016 - Dec 2016)?
The Battle of Aleppo began July 2012 until December 2016 (4 years, 5 months), with the last offensive June - December 2016 lasting 7 months - and that's with bombing the hell out of Aleppo. It's amazing you didn't even link the Wikipedia article you're referencing - since it's right there on the title and URL "Battle of Aleppo (2012–16)":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_ofAleppo(2012%E2%80%9316)
You don't get to waive off all those years and months worth of military offensives just because it was a stalemate. Even throughout the stalemate, Syria-Russia were still bombing the hell out of Aleppo and killing civilians along with it. Those civilians who died due to those previous years of bombings should not be forgotten.
Iraqi forces are fighting street by street, not bombing the hell out of Mosul. That's why it's slower, but that's better for Mosul residents and preserves the city to be livable instead of the massive destruction that happened in Aleppo.
Half a million people --in a large city the size of Mosul-- fleeing their homes is better instead of getting bombed in their homes like what happened in Aleppo. At least the fleeing Mosul residents will have homes to return to once the battle is over, unlike the Aleppo residents whose homes were already bombed into the stone age - they have no more homes to return to (if that's the Russians' idea of getting the job done -by bombing the hell out of the Aleppo residents' homes-- then Mosul is better off without that).
@zichi
Here's the figures we have so far:
https://japantoday.com/category/world/iraqi-forces-launch-offensive-to-drive-is-from-western-mosul
Just from the last year alone:
http://www.dchrs.org/english/File/Aleppo_Genocide_Oct_01_to_Dec_14_2016_Report_English.pdf
2016 -- Syria + Russia airstrikes = Aleppo civilians
Jan -- 42 + 241 = 283
Feb -- 42 + 217 = 259
Mar -- 47 + 34 = 81
Apr -- 250 + 122 = 372
May -- 205 + 46 = 251
Jun -- 385 + 90 = 475
Jul -- 560 + 226 = 786
Aug -- 311 + 115 = 426
Sep -- 101 + 532 = 633
Oct -- 406 + 133 = 539
Nov -- 579 + 243 = 822
Total Aleppo civilians = 4927
And that's only 2016 - remember, the Battle of Aleppo started in 2012, so we don't have figures yet for 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015. Plus, there's a good chance that the last year of 2016 has the lowest # of those years simply because the previous years of 2012-2015 had already killed off most of the people (so there's already less people living in 2016 to be able to be killed). Usually it's at the start of the operation that has the highest # of casualties simply because that's when the most # of people still alive.
If anybody has more data, feel free to share the data - and please provide direct links as much as possible
lostrune2
Guessing those are total civilians - anybody know how it breaks down between sides?
Naumov Danila
Well, I am not a quantity lover, but I can tell you that both sides are profoundly handicaped and have caused endless, yet to end, suffering to rightful owners of the land they are dropping bombs on as if it is a "battleship" game.