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Tutu says Bush, Blair should face trial at The Hague

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Agreed.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Seconded.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Whatever, It'll never amount to anything and it'll never happen, no reason for it. Yawn.....

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

"Mistakes were made, and decisions were made on the best information available from "military intelligence." Nobody said Bush and Blair were competent or intelligent to understand the information. Mr. Powell left because he knew that and all the traded "intelligence" was untrue. It is too late, Mr. Tutu, but maybe Mr. Obama can stay out of Syria and Iran. Yanks come home, and soon from Iraq and Afghanistan.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Agreed!

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@Nori

Exactly.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Time these people were brought to justice. Add Cheney to the list too.

9 ( +13 / -3 )

@Bert

Cheney, Bush, Blair and Rumsfeld will never, ever walk into a foreign court, that'll make a circus and spectacle of something that will just never be. It's all bark and no bite. Not even a blip on the radar to them.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

The Iraq war “has destabilized and polarized the world to a greater extent than any other conflict in history,”

lol. One of the great watersheds of the last 30 years of geopolitical history I suppose he means....

2 ( +4 / -2 )

...and yet another Peace Prize winner Obama can rain down missiles all over the world and that's okay....Hmmm

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I don't believe the ICC has the strength (power) to judge the leaders of the United States and Britain, but there are many questions that to be answered (clarified) though.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"that to be answered" should be that need to be answered.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A (lonely) voice of reason.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

"“has destabilized and polarized the world to a greater extent than any other conflict in history,”

I wonder what he thinks came in at second and third...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Before the invasion, at least four Intelligence groups agreed that there was something there, possibly because Saddam Hussein thought he "had the goods". The previous use of chemical warfare against the Iranians and Kurdish citizens was well established. Finally, several tons of yellow cake (Uranium Oxide) was shipped to Canada and the possibility exists that Syria is sitting on assets from Iraq. It was also well known that Saddam was paying suicide bomber's families $25,000 per event.

Also, Kofi Annan paid a visit to Rwanda as the UN Disarmament Representative. The slaughter that followed was between 500K and a Million people. Kofi needs to visit the Hague, too, if anybody is going.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Look forward to Obama's comment on this.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

CrazyJoeSep. 03, 2012 - 08:39AM JST I don't believe the ICC has the strength (power) to judge the leaders of the United States and Britain, but there are many questions that to be answered (clarified) though.

Maybe in a few decades when China is the number 1 economy in the world (and by certain measures it has already overtaken the US economy) Bush and Blair will be marched into a Chinese court room, given then 15 minute "trial", and then taken out back, executed and the price of the bullet sent to their families... and frankly it would be justice.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Tutu is right, but doesn't go far enough. The destabilization of the Middle East goes WAY back to when oil was first discovered and likely earlier. Things really started to heat up when the democratically elected president of Iran was deposed in a US-led coup resulting in the installation of the despotic( yet US-backed) Shah. Western adventurist intervention has everything to do with the fine mess that has resulted. Mr Obama should also be included on the list.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

So, Tutu is saying that Saddam Hussein should have been allowed to continue his murderous rule in Iraq.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

As some posters have gleefully pointed out, there is no way we can expect a former US President and UK PM to face international justice. We may be able to convict 'their African and Asian peers' but not these two foul warmongers. @Bass You may dismiss this with a 'yawn' but the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis whose lives were devastated wouldn't be so flippant and would like to see justice done.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

We all know this won´t ever happen, but we should ask Interpol to call for the detention of these people and to put them in their most wanted list.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Absolutely right. Those two - plus Cheney and Rumsfeld - should answer for their crimes. Sadly, however, rich white men seldom do.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

The fact is, if Tutu had his way ( no liberation of Iraq ), Saddam Hussein would have continued his murderous rule in Iraq, probably until this day.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

yeah, like that's going to happen. Losing some credibility there, eh?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Maybe in a few decades when China is the number 1 economy in the world (and by certain measures it has already overtaken the US economy) Bush and Blair will be marched into a Chinese court room, given then 15 minute "trial", and then taken out back, executed and the price of the bullet sent to their families... and frankly it would be justice.

Frungy-san,

You may well be right.

I just hope that along with these two creeps, those who were running them get their just desserts too.

Who were they?

Perhaps Mr Assange can shed some light on that. I haven't a clue.

I just know that Bush redefines the term "low IQ," and Blair, who probably has a pretty good IQ, always looked like a frightened rabbit. Probably a guilty secret or two.

But the real criminals are Bush and Blair's "advisors."

And let's not forget Meinherr Cheney.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

So, Tutu is saying that Saddam Hussein should have been allowed to continue his murderous rule in Iraq.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what he said...

I 100% agree with Tutu - and the others that add Cheney and Rummy to the list.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

This "peace" advocate is well known for advocating the murder of his tribal enemies in South Africa. I guess he figures its been long enough and he hasn't had any headlines lately.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The fact is, if Tutu had his way ( no liberation of Iraq ), Saddam Hussein would have continued his murderous rule in Iraq, probably until this day.

And a) fewer people would have died, and b) Iraq would still be in one piece.

There were many non-violent ways the Hussein problem could have been handled.

For vast amounts of money the US wasted in this senseless war, Hussein could have been bought, for one thing.

"Here's a trillion bucks, come and live in Florida!"

4 ( +6 / -2 )

They should indeed face trial, but they won't.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Yep!That Tutu is the Pot calling the Kettle Black ! South Africa is toast and always will be!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Mr.Tutu, please do not worry, the Bushes, Blairs have already made lots and lots of TERRIBLE KARMA, sooner or later they will pay with karma, we do not have to worry about courts etc..

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Blare, please don't blare nonsense! What do you really mean when you say, “in a healthy democracy, people can agree to disagree.”? So you disagree with Iraq when they said they didn't posesses any nuclear weapons! YOu should know better, that most artiliaries are supplied by your best friend, and if they posesses any nuclear weapons, for that matter, those are supplied by YOUR BEST FRIEND! WHY DIDN'T YOU AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR BEST FRIEND? ARE YOU AND YOUR FRIEND THE ONLY ONES WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO DEMOCRACY? DON'T IRAQ HAVE THE RIGHT TOO? IDIOTS!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What about the American (and British) voters who put these clowns in office (and reelected Bush in 2004)? In my view they bear a burden of the guilt as well. Unfortunately any blood money reparations paid to Iraq would be siphoned off by its corrupt leaders, so individual Iraqis would wind up with next to nothing.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

What about Obama? What charges will he be brought up on? There have been a lot of drones flying around the Middle East over the last four years.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

I know there is an election coming up but the rightwingers trying to defend the Iraq 'intervention' is quite tragic. One of the saddest sights I can remember is the late Christopher Hitchens, a highly intelligent and articulate man trying to justify this war as it descended into a bloodbath - talk about flogging a dead horse. It was illegal, badly executed and had no clear idea for the restructuring of Iraq. That final point of no clear idea for restructuring alone is enough to see Bush/Blair in the dock.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Yep!That Tutu is the Pot calling the Kettle Black !

Which countries has South Africa invaded on a false pretext recently?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Mr. Tutu doesn't know that war crimes are only applicable on little guys, weak guys, losers, bad guys... UK and US are known for being the good guys therefore war crimes do not apply.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hey, this American believes that BUSH should be tried. HE OUTRIGHT LIED ABOUT WMD's and nothing was ever found. He had Colin Powell go to the UN and give false statements that they knew were not true and opened up a Pandora's Box. Yeah, Saddam was a very cruel and vicious man, but there were better ways to deal with him instead of just going in there are creating havoc. God Bless the poor GI's who went there thinking they were doing the right thing, when they were actually lied to. And God Bless the victims who have died as a result of Bush's lies. A lot more people would be alive and that country might not be in its present situation if he had not have sent his military there. He should be tried for treason by us Americans. So, many young people who were still teenagers (18,19) died. FOR WHAT? A LIE!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Agreed. For the first time in my life I agree with an Archbishop!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It is time to discuss a penalty, assuming conviction: a personal handwritten letter to every military family every week for the death of the family member. No letters, no retirement check⁄

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Jim

As some posters have gleefully pointed out, there is no way we can expect a former US President and UK PM to face international justice. We may be able to convict 'their African and Asian peers' but not these two foul warmongers. @Bass You may dismiss this with a 'yawn' but the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis whose lives were devastated wouldn't be so flippant and would like to see justice done.

Funny, I never heard liberals and the left crying foul when Saddam was killing his own people, not to mention slaughtering the Kurds and you think Saddam was better off had we have left him? You guys always talk about the lives that were lost, but what about the lives that were saved? Not a peep! The man murdered his own son in law with his daughters help? How insane is that? Personally, I am glad that he's gone, No regrets, absolutely not, I thank Bush, I have many Iraqi friends living in the states that feel the same, my only regret is, it should have been done much earlier. I personally can sleep better at night, the Shiite Muslims did the right thing, the man was not named the butcher of Bagdad for No reason. But I know that you liberals would have had him remain in power. I think justice is done IMO.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

What I honestly love the most is that, the left will never, ever see this day come, it won't, you know it and it sickens you. I love it. Move on already. Also, SA has some nerve, the murder Capitol of the world, corruption out of control, rape, drugs, a person is murdered every 30 min. And they want to point their fingers at Bush and Blair, shame on them, clean up your own damn country first!

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Bush and Blair should also be tried and convicted of TREASON in their respective countries.

They are upper-crust secret society white trash.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I am so sick and tired of whiny liberals American and Non- American that always want to talk... Is the US perfect, not by a long shot, have we made mistakes of course we have, but we have done more good to and for the world than anyone else! We have our own problems trails and tribulations, but at every turn people just want to harp on Bush and why, because he didn't govern, the way the world thought in their selfish minds how he should govern? This is a witch hunt and some of you as well as the current President, really need to focus on the future and real problems, not on the past. US used to have a policy not to criticize the sitting President, but when Obama came into office that changed and STILL to this day, Obama can't stop blaming Bush as if he is running against him. It is just utterly astounding that some Europeans and Africans and Liberals have nothing better to do! Europe is falling apart, America is falling apart, Africa, many parts of it are falling apart and slipping into chaos, but trying to get Bush, Blair into some whacked mock court that really NO one in their right minds care about is more important, is that correct? There is another side to Bush that people don't know about, but liberals never talked about it, reported on it, just wanted to vilify the man, that was and still continues to be the obsession of the far left. The man is retired, leave him be, nothing will happen, nothing is ever going to happen, so the world needs to live with it and move on, if you can't, then you people have way too much time on your hands.

**http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941.html

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/united-states**

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

bass4funk-san,

we (the U.S.A.) have done more good to and for the world than anyone else!

Really?

How do you calculate that?

With mathematics, or is it just intuition?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@ubikwit: I agree they need to be held accountable (no WMDs when the reason for invasion was WMDs), but I think you need to re-word that last bit. You can't be upper-crust AND white trash.

@bass4funk: our countries went to war based on a lie. It may have got rid of a dictator and his regime, but in its wake it's left a fractured country with people being killed every day. Do the ends always justify the means?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Heh, pretty amazing to see the un-hinged radical right defend their invasion while at the same time call for Obama's inclusion in the same paragraph.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"There were many non-violent ways the Hussein problem could have been handled"

But none of them would have removed the dictator from power.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Is the US perfect, not by a long shot, have we made mistakes of course we have, but we have done more good to and for the world than anyone else!

I disagree with that, but that is not relevant. Tutu is not saying that America and the UK should face trial at The Hague, he said that Bush and Blair should. Bush and Blair did not "make mistakes", they knew exactly what they were doing, they lied, and because of their lies, at least a million died.

Not only should they face trial at The Hague; they should also face trial at home, for treason.

So, Tutu is saying that Saddam Hussein should have been allowed to continue his murderous rule in Iraq.

Bush murdered infinitely more Iraqis than Saddam ever would have allegedly murdered.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Americans and Brits should embrace the idea of their former leaders going on trial. It would set a precedent and make future leaders think twice before illegally invading countries, killing innocents and wasting our tax. Even rightwingers would be happy at the money saved.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Really?

How do you calculate that?

With mathematics, or is it just intuition?

A little of both, but if you think otherwise, oh, well!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Jim

Americans and Brits should embrace the idea of their former leaders going on trial. It would set a precedent and make future leaders think twice before illegally invading countries, killing innocents and wasting our tax. Even rightwingers would be happy at the money saved.

Bush and Blair have nothing to be ashamed. I think this witch hunt is a waste of time and money, they could and should use their money more efficiently, rather than to waste it on two men that have long sailed into the sunset.

@Jaa

Bush and Blair did not "make mistakes", they knew exactly what they were doing, they lied, and because of their lies, at least a million died.

And you base these opinionated accusations on?

Not only should they face trial at The Hague; they should also face trial at home, for treason.

THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN! And thank God for that.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

bass4funk-san

Who are you working for?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Now, I'm working for myself, but before that, I worked for NBC 12 years LA Times 4 years and FOX 3 years, now I have my own company.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"Bush murdered infinitely more Iraqis than Saddam ever would have allegedly murdered."

What a load of tosh. Saddam Hussein was a genocidal, egotistical megalomaniac up there in the hall of fame with Adolf Hitler or Papa Joe.

Most of the dead Iraqi's and carnage circa 2005 onwards were caused by either the Iraqi's themselves, or foreign Islamobots that descended into Iraq post invasion in attempts to apply their insane version of Islam.

Bush and the Neocons pulling his strings were however the ones that created the chaos that allowed this to happen, through un-hinged ideas that they "would be welcomed as liberators", disastrous handling of the initial invasion (disbanding the army - hello?) and mismanagement of the occupation. And that's without even mentioning the controversial "WMD" that didn't actually exist.

That, and that alone is why they should be in the dock.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Wow ! Why did it took soooo long for someone to think of putting The Shrub and Blair to the International Court. Bush have been talking lies and convincing Blair about Iraqs WMD. Did they find any? Even the 9/11 was perpetrated by the Bush administration. To justify the reasons and so forth in invading Iraq. WMD , Axis of Evil my foot.... hehehehehe. It's plain OIL business. To bomb and destroy Iraq and Cheney's Haliburton will rebuild it. Business again. Control Iraq's oil , money again. But the rule of Karma sets in, and USA suffered with the fall of their economy big time. IMO

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If we're going to start jailing leaders for every act of destabilization we could make things a lot easier and line up every leader of every country on the planet over the past 20 years and put them all in court for their real and perceived crimes. Because that would work great.

The British inquiries cleared Blair and Bush used British intelligence as a basis for the Iraq invasion. Stupid? Yeah. Criminal? Not technically.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

<<bass4funkSep. 03, 2012 - 07:17PM JST

<<Really?

How do you calculate that?

With mathematics, or is it just intuition?

A little of both, but if you think otherwise, oh, well!

bass4funk,

BertieWooster. got you. You can calculate a cost of war. But you cannot calculate a cost of human casualties in war. Everyone involved among Iraq US and NATO soldiers killed in war had mother, father, son, daughter, grandparents, cousins, nephews, nieces, friends. These people will never, never forget what had happend to them the day they die.. That's why we need to be absolutely just before going into war. There are many consequences in war. Can you calculate a cost for this?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What about Obama? What charges will he be brought up on? There have been a lot of drones flying around the Middle East over the last four years.

IRAN .

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Lets watch what Mrs Clinton will do to the Pacific into Paradise or Hell in the Pacific. for her own political interest like Bush and Blair.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"Funny, I never heard liberals and the left crying foul when Saddam was killing his own people, not to mention slaughtering the Kurds and you think Saddam was better off had we have left him? You guys always talk about the lives that were lost, but what about the lives that were saved? Not a peep! The man murdered his own son in law with his daughters help? How insane is that? Personally, I am glad that he's gone, No regrets, absolutely not, I thank Bush, I have many Iraqi friends living in the states that feel the same, my only regret is, it should have been done much earlier. I personally can sleep better at night, the Shiite Muslims did the right thing, the man was not named the butcher of Bagdad for No reason. But I know that you liberals would have had him remain in power. I think justice is done IMO."

@bass4funk:

What made Iraq so special? After no WMDs were found, the final reason for invading Iraq was we at least liberated the Iraquis from the tyrant Hussein. Let me say that I am in no way a liberal. As an Independent, I feel that both parties are equally worthless. North Korea does in fact have WMDs, so why weren't they targeted as well? Don't their people, who live just as bad as the average Iraqui lived deserve to be liberated as well? at least we are still technically at war with North Korea and would be well within our rights to attack them. I'm just curious as to what made Iraq so special, even more so than North Korea?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yes, Globalwatcher. You cannot calculate life in terms of yen, dollars, pounds, euro, or any other currency.

US and NATO soldiers died in large numbers, but let's not forget the much larger number of Iraqis who were killed by US and NATO soldiers. Many of these were non-combatants who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those who died immediately were the lucky ones. Those who died slowly, of injury, disease or starvation brought about by the devastation of their land were not so lucky.

Let's also not forget that it was their country that was invaded, bombed and large areas of cities flattened to the ground. It was their economy that was destroyed.

And let's not forget that the whole thing was started based on a lie.

Bush, with Blair supporting him made it appear that Iraq with their WMDs were about to wreak havoc on the US of A. These guy's crimes are far worse than even Hussein's.

Yes, there is enough cause to bring these guys to justice.

In an honest world, it would be done and the U.K. and U.S.A. would have to make up for the damage they caused.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

BertieWooster - you forget to mention in addition to the dead the growing numbers of birth defects (cardiac or skeletal abnormalities, neural tune defects) and cancers now being seen in places like Falluja, thought to be caused by toxins in weaponry used in 2 US assaults on the city in 2004. Falluja now sees at least 11 times as many major defects in newborns as the world average.

Whoever authorised the use of depleted uranium and white phosphorus in Iraq needs to be brought to account.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Cleo-san,

You are quite right.

The atrocities mount up.

You could also add to the list ancient ruins and places of historical interest destroyed.

I get fed up with reading articles that state ONLY the US casualties.

As if the Iraqis don't matter.

Whether Bush and Blair are the main ones behind the Iraq and the Afghanistan fiascos I don't know. But they were the ones who stood up and made it appear as if they were running the show.

Thanks to these two, the USA has lost friends and credibility in the world.

It's rapidly becoming a police state.

Going through US customs is a nightmare.

And Guantanamo is still up and running.

There should be a reckoning. NOT after Bush and Blair are dead and buried. But now, so that they can take some responsibility.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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