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© 2014 AFPU.N. Security Council calls for immediate Gaza ceasefire
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© 2014 AFP
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Serrano
When the Hamas has been damaged enough so that they cannot launch rockets at Israel, and Israel withdraws, how about the U.N. send in troops and, if necessary, remove what's left of the Hamas mis-government and help with providing security for an interim government in Gaza?
SuperLib
Hamas will keep going until they need more supplies, then they'll agree to a cease fire. It will last a while, then once their supplies are up again they will start firing more rockets.
It's all they know how to do.
SenseNotSoCommon
As Bibi and Hamas currently have irreconcilable differences there's a very good rationale for blue berets from neutral countries on the ground.
Daniel Neagari
UN calls for a cease fire... or what?..... if they don't the UN is going to "strongly disapprove" what is going on there?
Mean while... Israel keeps systematically eliminating the Hamas threat.... children, women and elder first....
ulysses
The Arab countries were never known for their IQs, its just sad that other countries are getting pressurised into voting for biased resolutions.
horizon360
Israeli Ambassador Ron Prosor suggested the stance taken by the Council was biased. | Miraculously it doesnt mention Hamas. It doesnt mention the firing of rockets. Those things are lacking in this statement , he said. 'You dont have to have the IQ of a rocket scientist to understand that if rockets are falling on you, you are allowed to defend yourself.' |
How obtuse... This is the same guy (ambassador) who played siren sounds from his cellphone for emphasis while speaking before UN Security Council diplomats on July 18. Israel Ambassador to the UN Ron Proser, and Israel Ambassador to the US Ron Dermer (who stated to the Times of Israel on July 22 his belief that the IDF should receive the Nobel Peace Prize for their | unimaginable restraint | ). What a pair these two "Rons" are.
dcog9065
Although I agree that Israel needs to take some sort of action against Hamas for the firing of rockets into Israel, I do think Israel is getting out of control with the civilian killings.. The blockade of Gaza itself is a bit of a moral disgrace..
Oyajid
With 1000+ victims with only 1% being actual "terrorists", Israel redefines the "Collateral damage" expression, but then again, by killing mostly children you eliminate potential terrorist before their inception... Minority Report 2! Genocide in disguise, disgrace for all to see...
japonaise
One of the guidelines issued by the Hamas Interior Ministry states: "Anyone killed or martyred is to be called a civilian from Gaza or Palestine, before we talk about his status in jihad or his military rank. Don't forget to always add 'innocent civilian' or 'innocent citizen' in your description of those killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza."
Innocent people have of course died but it is not at all clear yet how many were terrorists.
Daniel Neagari
@Japonaise
We can be SURE that those 300+ children who died are not Hamas members (not to mentioned the wounded ones) And I am not sure about the status of mentally disabled people and elders being classified as "hamas members"
SenseNotSoCommon
Oyajid,
B'Tselem has counted 165 of the identified Palestinian dead as combatants.
japonaise,
What's your source for this, please? And how could B'Tselem identify so many combatants, given this Gaza-wide diktat? Thanks!
USNinJapan2
Daniel Neagari
Well since all Hamas members are mentally disabled by definition and action, maybe you should be a little more sure?
slumdog
Hi, SenseNotSoCommon,
Here you are:
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Hamas-tells-social-media-activists-to-always-call-the-dead-innocent-civilians-364154
Mike O'Brien
Made up numbers don't mean much. The number of "terrorists" is as reported by, you guessed it, the "terrorists". And of course when asked any Hamas member is going to tell the truth, right? It isn't like they have a reason to make it appear that lots of civilians are being killed.
Between 20 and 30% of the killed are reported to be children, yet the population of Gaza is about 50% children. Shouldn't the number of victims be about the same as the population in general if Israel's attacks are indiscriminate? The same is seen with the number of female victims, it is about 20% while the general population is just about 50% female.
20-30% isn't mostly. >50% would be mostly.
No we can't. Terrorist in general and Hamas in particular have been know to recruit and use children, especially when you consider that the numbers consider anyone below 18 to be a child.
SenseNotSoCommon
Many thanks for clarifying this Slumdog!
The Jerusalem Post piece is from MEMRI, whom the UK's Guardian first mentioned in 2002:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker
Let's look forward to further, quality input from our favourite Palestinian, japonaise.
japonaise
We cannot be SURE that it wasn't Hamas rockets that killed some of these children.
kurisupisu
Israel kills people with sniper fire just walking in the streets,destroys homes and businesses,media outlets,bombs schools and streets full of people and ignores the UN.
Israel also causes nuclear proliferation having a nuclear program...
Who is the terrorist now???
JoeBigs
U.N. Security Council calls for immediate Gaza ceasefire
Oh yeah, this holds a lot of weight behind it.
Oyajid
@mike Look mate I respect your opinion, if you feel that killing 20-30% childrens (well that would 200-300) is alright what do you want me to say? To be honest am quite sad to read most reactions here, take it from the perspective of a Palestinian, 1st you're told to share your house, 2nd your kicked out of your house (expension of clonies is an actual invasion...) The world really suck.
Oyajid
@Mike Sorry I got a bit thrown off by this statement
So you would agree that this whole bloodbath operation and killing so many by-standers in the process is an absolute disgrace? I am a strong believer in proportionate response. Hear me out, shooting blind rockets towards Israel, is not ok, if you ask me is Hamas a terrorist organization, definitely agreed. Now, the thing which is pissing me off the most about this whole situation, is that Hamas shooting blind is terrorism but Israel bombing blindly, I mean, mortar in a UN school, really!? is considered as a military operation. It's terrorism in the same sense. It's ethnic purification at its best, check out how Sudany or Ethiopian jews are treated in Israel, honestly, makes me wonder about why, a country with a far-right state, a religion driven "democracy" and driven by purity of bloodlines is a worthy guest to have at your table... The double standard is so obvious it's laughable.
Again, just a debate of opinion, nothing personal :)
SenseNotSoCommon
Not at all. Just managing expectations. Shoukran.
Just because Yahoo News (did I miss an exclamation mark?) regurgitates it, doesn't make the story any more - for want of a better word - kosher (actually kosher is a great word, but I digress). Its provenance is still unverified, and with each repetition it smells more and more of disinformation.
As for the Blogspot artwork, one of MEMRI's interns could have thrown that together in half an hour.
So, you can spam us with childish nonsense, or enlighten us with intelligent, more convincing - compelling even - arguments. What do Israel and the Palestinians deserve?
yabits
Yes, Gaza is not an independent state with its own army that can threaten Israel. From a military perspective, Gaza is a fly facing an elephant. Gaza is under complete blockage and siege and is essentially a narrow cage.
Agreed. Up until a year ago, I had blindly supported Israel for decades. I am now convinced -- thanks to Israelis reporting the facts that most major news services don't cover -- that Israel does not and has never wanted a just peace with the Palestinian Arabs. It has only been peace on the elephant's terms, with flies getting crushed underfoot at every whim.
A serious reading of the history of the birth of Zionist Israel will reveal that the general perception -- what we've all been told --is based on complete myth.
One correction: I would not call Israel a "religion-drive democracy." First, they could never tolerate real democracy and survive. Second, some of their most severe and profound criticism has always come from what are called "ultra-orthodox" believers. Killing innocent people, ethnic cleansing, and stealing land are not part of the tenets given to the children of Abraham at Mount Sinai.
Mike O'Brien
And just how did that statement lead to your belief that I think the death of children is alright?
Well I am not. If someone is trying, no matter how incompetently, to kill my family I believe in overwhelming response.
But Israel isn't bombing blindly. If they were the numbers would be close to the numbers for the general population of Gaza. The fact that the numbers aren't is a pretty good indication that the fire isn't blind. Yes, there will be mistakes because people and equipment aren't 100% perfect.
And of course the Egyptians are working with Israel. Makes you wonder why despite Egypt laying 'siege' to Gaza, just like Israel is accused of, Hamas hasn't fired any rockets or mortars into Egypt.
Equality
It would help if the UN didn't let Hamas store rockets and other weapons in UN schools.
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-rockets-found-second-united-nations-school-224830922.html
SuperLib
Proportionate response wasn't created to even the playing field for a weaker army who has been attacking for decades.
Israel has made peace agreements with their neighbors. It's been done with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc. Hamas can't even get support from other Arab nations that surround them. I notice that your comments ignore the Hamas/militant problem and I don't see how a peace can be achieved without dealing with that issue head on. I also think you forgive the violent approach by the Palestinians and even justify it, and I think violence might give a good feeling of revenge but it's not the path to Palestinian statehood. All of the evidence for the past 60 years has pointed towards violence leading to misery and I cringe when I see people supporting it.
The Palestinians need to disarm and renounce violence. Once that happens, the international community will have complete leverage on Israel to force them to do whatever they want. Terrorism derails all of that.
Oyajid
Look I don't despise Jewish people, I really despise is the travesty of justice pretending that somehow Hamas/Gazaouis, are the ones creating the problem, open a history book from 1948 till now and look at how the borders have evolved, it's an invasion no more, no less.
Fair enough, Hamas are a bunch of nutjob agreed, but far-right Israel government right now is really leveling the field in term of crazy
Bingo, that's exactly the smartest thing to do, but with extremists on both sides might be difficult to pull-off
Cheers
yabits
I am aware of agreements made by the Zionist government with Egypt and Jordan. I don't believe there is any such agreement with Syria or Lebanon.
There is no "weaker army." The situation is like the ANC against the apartheid government forces, or the French resistance versus the German military. These are civilian movements under occupation. There are international laws regarding reprisals against civilians under occupation, and proportionate response is one of them.
The wholesale violence by the Zionist state eclipses the relatively feeble responses by the Palestinians. That violence not only includes overt violence by the military, but every method employed by them to make life next to impossible for Palestinian Arabs. Let's eliminate the wholesale violence first before worrying about the desperate responses to it.
In order to "achieve" (read: surrender) a "state" -- a Bantustan, actually -- where they would not have the best land, no control of their water supply, no control of their air space, etc.? They would be totally dominated by Israel, subject to most of the humiliations they suffer daily.
The international community did not call or wait for the ANC to disarm or renounce violence. The Zionist state will have to be dismantled and dissolved just as the apartheid state was. White South Africans were not destroyed, just their system was.
sfjp330
Since 1948, the Palestinians will not be intimidated into departing. Heroic stubbornness seems to be much in evidence on both sides of the Semitic fence. The only practical weapon available to the Israelis is to try and inflict prosperity upon their opponents; prosperity, as we know, generally being accompanied by atheism and a reluctance to reproduce. The mutual antagonism might then be afflicted with a terminal marasmus, or at any rate the demographic race might be played out on the proverbial level playing field. This would take some time but perhaps not so much as pursuit of the mirage known as the 'two-state solution'. Israel holds its territory in the same way that it won it, by force of arms.
japonaise
Which links would be acceptable to you?
Stuart hayward
Remember, it's a fact that Israel holds the world record for broken UN resolutions!
Serrano
"Gaza is a fly facing an elephant"
Yeah, but it's a pesky fly that keeps on launching missiles that have killed and maimed people.