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U.S. files first charges on hacking, infuriating China

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Does that mean any country that has been spied on by the NSA can start charging Americans too?

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

Pot, please meet kettle.

After the NSA fiasco, the allegations are a bit ironic.

-12 ( +9 / -21 )

China has been doing this since they first got the internet. As much as the above posters want to put the attention of this article on the NSA, its got more to do with technological advancement and innovation that China sorely lacks. Remember the 3 Terabytes (or w/e the next level is from that) of information that was taken from the F-35 program? Chinas work. With the way China has been using its economic and military power, the US just finally said enough and its time to press on China.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

"Pot, please meet kettle. After the NSA fiasco, the allegations are a bit ironic."

I don't agree. I'd say most of NSA surveillance was for national security, not to hack into corporate computers for trade secrets.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

China has been conducting a war against the United States in every field in just about every which way possible other than an actual physical war for the last ten years at least. We know this but continue to "not want to provoke them" or "antagonize them". It's about time we started openly naming them as the aggressors and our adversaries on all issues. On a lighter note I too would indict anyone with a name like the first guy on the list. LOL

15 ( +17 / -2 )

I taught a guy from Riken in Japan, a lovely old bloke, who was a scientist involved in nano technology and quantum theory. Amongst other things, we talked about the Quantum computer - a device he said was theoretically possible, and if constructed, had the capacity to overpower/control/destroy all other computer based activity in the world.

Now, this isn't really my bag, so some may know much more about this than I, but because of the potential power ramifications this has, he asked me who I thought might be spending the most on researching the quantum computer? The US military was his answer.

If that's the case, I reckon they might be upping the budget again this year.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

^^ If they're working on a quantum computer then we shouldn't be worrying about China, we should be worrying about the computer taking of the world and wiping out mankind.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Paulinusa, most of the Chinese surveillance is for national security as they see it. "Pot meet kettle" is an entirely justified comment.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Gaijintraveller, I would disagree.

A thief can not be a thief unless others play by the rules. If everyone is a thief, there is no profit from thieving.

The U.S. plays by the rules and does not share its intelligence with private companies. "Period" There has even been a history of duplication of spying efforts because one U.S. spy agency (the NSA) will not share its intelligence with other U.S. spy agencies.

China on the other hand does everything possible to give its domestic industry every benefit not provided to industries in other countries. It makes for an uneven playing field, similar to thieving from honest people. In addition, a state sponsor has nearly unlimited funds, so state sponsored industrial spying like what China is conducting is obviously destabilizing.

It needs to end, but China has never shown a willingness to comply with norms of free trade. So, it will only result in more bluster and accusations of unfairness, when it is really China that is acting unfair.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Well,hey,,,Why buy the milk when the cow was free ?? And this has been going on since when???? China has been getting away with this on a Global scale for so long without complaint by Any Nation, it's just another day for them.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I'd say most of NSA surveillance was for national security

That's exactly how China sees this as well.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Oh America, how can you say these things with a straight face?

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

Bartholomew “Why buy the milk the cow was free” Love it!

A bully and a copycat, don’t worry they will find a way out of this. Simply because the world is too afraid to upset the big bully and let it off the hook again.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"Infuriating China" has become a cliche.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

History is cyclical, with ebbs and flows of power from one group of people to another. The US has been unpopular for quite some time, starting when public opinion and government policy shifted from isolationism before WW2 to being a superpower along with the U.S.S.R. in the post-war period. A century ago, China was the victim and Germany one of the most despised and feared nations, while now Germany is benign and China is being aggressive. And before that, France, the UK, Spain, and so on.

I don't see the point in getting caught up in pointing out the hypocrisy of China or the US, especially when you consider they are only symptoms of a larger problem. Espionage is hardly new, nor is the prosecution of spies or the feigned outrage by governments when they are accused of it. Neither is the fact that whomever has power will use their influence to defend their interests, often in unjust ways to benefit their own people. Expect the pattern to continue as long as national identities and the concept of nation states persists.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It's a good thing the U.S. never uses hacking, computer viruses or other means to find out things.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

I've seen many people try and make this into an NSA issue rather than a Communist China one.

First off as many others have pointed out, the NSA doesn't spy on corporations for the benefit of state owned corporations. BTW, the US of A doesn't own any Corporations and it isn't in the business of spying to benefit any.

The NSA spies on nations and nationals who they consider a risk to national security, so it is a whole lot different than what Communist China does.

Communist China steals corporate secrets to give their state-owned corporations a leg up. So, let's try and keep this where it belongs rather than tap-dancing around the 10,000 LB Red Panda sitting in the corner.

As to the issue itself, well this issue is one that goes back a long way. Communist China's corporations don't create, they steal.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-03-14/inside-the-chinese-boom-in-corporate-espionage

Corn

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/1219/Did-China-steal-US-corn-Six-charged-with-digging-up-bioengineered-seed

http://www.chem.info/news/2013/12/chinese-ceo-caught-stealing-monsanto-and-pioneer-seed

Communication Equipment

http://abc7chicago.com/news/chinese-indictments-mimic-chicago-motorola-spy-case-from-2007/68333/

Military

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/caught-on-tape-selling-americas-secrets/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/25/spys-arrest-underscores-beijings-bid-for-agents/?page=all

Those are just a few, there are many, many, many more.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

" the NSA doesn't spy on corporations for the benefit of state owned corporations."

And you can say that because... ABCNBCNN said so? O-tay, Buckwheat! Transparency has never been a strong point USGOV(nor any other gov). That's all part of the "Anatomy of the State". Read it.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

John GaltMay. 20, 2014 - 12:35PM JST " the NSA doesn't spy on corporations for the benefit of state owned corporations." And you can say that because... ABCNBCNN said so? O-tay, Buckwheat! Transparency has never been a strong point USGOV(nor any other gov). That's all part of the "Anatomy of the State". Read it.

There is a great difference between private security corporations spying for clients and Governments spying for corporations.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@JoeBigs

First off as many others have pointed out, the NSA doesn't spy on corporations for the benefit of state owned corporations. BTW, the US of A doesn't own any Corporations and it isn't in the business of spying to benefit any.

You have NO idea what the NSA is or isn't doing unless you're on the inside. And if you are, I wouldn't believe you anyway. I think the record is clear that the NSA does what ever the heck it's told to do. Spying on Pres. Obama while he was a Senator? Which has nothing to do with National Security, and yes, they did that. So please don't make statements that you can't back up with facts.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Excellent move by the Obama administration. Demonstrate that industrial cyber-espionage has had a quantifiable effect on US industry and you can operate from a position of strength against Chinese efforts to steal their way to industrial greatness.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Does that mean any country that has been spied on by the NSA can start charging Americans too?

While I certainly don't condone the NSA's spying programs, spying out of security considerations is not even remotely in the same ballpark as industrial espionage. Which is what the above story is about. China is systematically stealing the byproduct of countless millions of dollars spent by U.S. companies -- and on a broader canvas, the whole of American society -- on the education, training, ingenuity, and hard work of Americans to benefit a Chinese economy that lacks the proficiency necessary for fostering at least three out of those four qualities essential for a healthy economy. And again, of course, there's the money lost.

Equating cyber spying by the NSA with China has been doing may seem like an obvious parallel, but it's not. Take the word "cyber" out of the equation, and there isn't one person here who wouldn't be offended by the idea of a foreign operative physically breaking into, say, Westinghouse headquarters in Pennsylvania, smuggling physical blueprints for the latest nuclear reactor design out of the building, and taking them back to his or her home country to be spun into a booming nuclear reactor industry with, surprisingly, the latest technological innovations.

Industrial espionage is trademark violation is copyright violation is plagiarism is theft. That's what these 5 Chinese-government-sponsored hackers are being charged with. Industrial espionage is a crippling act of theft that bleeds the lifeblood of any economy. Pure and simple. The idea of profiting off the hard work of others being wrong is one so firmly entrenched in U.S. society and culture that in 2006, Pepsi Co., when presented with the formula for arch-rival Coca-Cola by would be enterprising corporate thieves, not only declined to buy it (likely for economic reasons to be sure), but also contacted Coca-Cola directly to alert them to what was happening.

Don't like this, China? Create your own schools. Educate your own population. Create your own labs. Develop your own R&D regimens. Bring your own products to market.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Joebigs, don't think no one has noticed that you didn't back up your defense of NSA with any facts and only employed petty ad hominems. The Fact is that NSA goons indeed have and do all sorts of unscrupulous activities and the few we do know of now were only exposed in tiny bits. There's much more yet to be revealed.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

China the taker, the stealer and the crook AGAIN ! Funny thing is that the USA has also been taking peoples info and data, to stay safe disconnect your PC now. lol

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Pretty cool move by the US. People have legitimate gripes with the NSA, but when it works like it's supposed to, it's something most people would support.

Except for those Alex Jones nut bags, of course.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The US government should seize China's assets, sell them and use the proceeds to compensate the affected companies.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Oh UK, France etc...if you think the CHINESE are ONLY spying on the USA,keep on smoking them banana peels! Are the CHINESE spying here on Japan?? Hell Yes! On South Korea?? Sure! On Russia and Western Europe?? Take a wild guess!! I can not wait until we see CHEAP copies of BMW cars or British Jaguar, if it is still British?? Anyway, you all get the point, right??

0 ( +1 / -1 )

When China determines to create a fight with Vietnam ; Vietnam has nowhere to escape but fight.(the oil rig). Now America wants China to hand over the five for trial or else , no one in their right minds would expect China to comply... Same lesson for China. So, how do you feel?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Heh, this is kinda pot kettle black. Still, the U.S. has a couple points.

1) The U.S. is making a distinction - the NSA eavesdrops supposedly for national security and diplomacy. Because of the close ties between the Chinese government and businesses, the Chinese military is engaging on corporate espionage of expensive R&D secrets and intellectual property to give to its state-owned corporations the economic advantage as well as in the government's negotiations looking for concessions from foreign corporations to be allowed to do business in China. The U.S. government isn't known for corporate espionage (at least yet) giving secrets to U.S. corporations - even Snowden's files don't show this.

2) Many other countries including Britain have been accusing the Chinese government of doing this. China has always said to produce evidence. Now the U.S. believes it has enough evidence that could stand up in court. The U.S. is just doing what the other nations have been trying to do.

But in the end, this is just symbolic. For practical reasons, those Chinese officials won't ever see the inside of a court. It's just the U.S. telling China to knock off the corporate espionage where direct real economic damages are harming businesses, not just in the U.S. but other nations' businesses too (those other nations' businesses appreciate this since it benefits them as well).

3 ( +4 / -1 )

70% of US companies operating in China admitted to being hacked in 2013. Who knows how many have been hacked abroad...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Why can't they steal the secrets for quality control in manufacturing? Everything made there is crap.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Attorney General Eric Holder called on China to hand over the five men for trial in the steel city of Pittsburgh

If Beijing is obedient and follow the demand of Washington, Snowden will be still in Hong Kong prison.

United States would use “all the means that are available to us” should Beijing refuse.

Sound likes transferring the case to WTO. It will open the way for counter prosecution. The only alternative is sending special force for arresting them.

US of A doesn't own any Corporations and it isn't in the business of spying to benefit any.

Fox news may be not owned by US of A. It is in the business of spying Kate and Piper Middleton private moment and the phone conversation for benefiting the circulation of press. It has not breached the intellectual property rights. However it has breached the privacy law.

There is a great difference between private security corporations spying for clients and Governments spying for corporations.

US government hacked German Chancellor Anglela Merkel mobile phone. It is more about the commercial interest for getting the deal of military hardware for US co-operation rather than listening Russian speaking skills of her.

On a lighter note I too would indict anyone with a name like the first guy on the list. LOL

In fact, indictment is largely symbolic. Defendants are not on the US soil. They are military official of far away and assertive PRC. Not from Panama such as General Noriega. Will US court send the special agents for arresting them? Highly unlikely.

Again commies from PRC are the banker of US congress at the moment. Law makers are not willing to offend the bank which is footing their bills. At the end, all are talks! Lacking the real punishments.

The indictment said that victims also included industry titans Alcoa and US Steel as well as the United Steelworkers labor union.

Those leftist should remember that their old jobs will never come back to old industrial ghost towns such as Detroit. The should improve their employability and vocational skills for learning programming languages for defending the national secrets.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

This is just a response of USA for a series of provocative actions that China has been doing these days! Sketch a picture of China the world 's thief. It thefts everything everywhere and whenever be caught they always say "China is a victim!"

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I don't doubt that the chinese spy to steal both government and industrial secrets. However, I do doubt that NSA doesn't do likewise. That would be naive to think the US Gov is benevolent.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

but Washington’s move marked a major escalation in the dispute.

Good on you Obama for finally showing some b@lls. Russia and China have run rough shod over your foreign policy which relied on discussion/diplomacy. Both those countries only respect action/power. Hope you keep up this new-found assertiveness in your last two-plus years.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I don't doubt that the chinese spy to steal both government and industrial secrets.

Well said.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China has in the past accused the United States of hypocrisy as Washington conducts sweeping surveillance around the world.

There's a pretty big difference between surveillance and industrial espionage. Washington's efforts are in the interest of national security and antiterrorism. China's efforts are for profit only. When you hurt innocent people and cost a country $300 billion a year, you deserve to be hit with harsh penalties. So go ahead China, get irritated. The US has said that they will use all available means, and if you want to support this illegal activity, then they will use all available means to bring these shameless hackers to justice. Just be grateful that it's only these five, and not the entire Unit.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There will be a difficulty of foreign buyers trusting American products. We have to assume companies have been co-opted, wittingly or unwittingly. If you were a company in Europe or Asia, are you really going to want to buy American products? Its unfortunate how people will perceive American technology products may have government mandated compromises built in.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

But in the end, this is just symbolic. For practical reasons, those Chinese officials won't ever see the inside of a court.

Most likely - unless they visit a country with extradition treaty with the US (admittedly a mind boggling bone head move). Another very funny symbolic aspect not mentioned in the article is that apparently "Wanted Posters" for each of these clowns were also issued. Maybe someone will snap some photos of these - along side the usual thieves, embezzlers, etc. - and post on Pinterest or something. That would be a hoot!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Washington's efforts are in the interest of national security and antiterrorism.

I just love it when the average Joe (or troll) spouts this naive BS.

Hey Fox, Russ Tice would 100% disagree with you. He would know, he was the first NSA whistle blower. Please read up on his accusations about the NSA. In short, you will discover you've been had.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

People saying this is just a symbolic. gesture, think again.

The US now declaring PRC had violated various US and international trade laws to WTO, US can now demand various embargo to the companies that were named to any and all WTO members until a hearing is placed with WTO as mediator since PRC themselves are a member of WTO as well.

This has serious implications for those companies and or group companies now not being able to do business abroad in which they were doing industrial espionage to gain access to the global market in the first place.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I just love it when the average Joe (or troll) spouts this naive BS.

I love it when legitimate internet trolls and Anti-americans decide to criticize anyone who shares an opinion that doesn't bash the US. Accusing the NSA (or any US government agency it seems) of wrongdoing appears to be very popular amongst non-americans in particular, even though they have no reason to behave that way. That you would believe a whistle blower shows just how naive you really are. They can't be trusted to provide legitimate information. They're turning against the NSA. The National Security Agency. I don't know about you, but if I heard someone spreading slanderous comments about a security organization, with allegedly confidential records as evidence, yet with no actual means of verifying the accuracy of the records, I'd be pretty sceptical. As would any rational person. Conspiracy theorists on the other hand would jump all over the information and blow it massively out of proportion. You say I've been had, I say prove it. You provide links, I'll refute the authenticity of the links. At best, we achieve a state of Stalemate and decide to agree to disagree. However, I know your type. You're determined that you are right, even though you do not have concrete evidence to substantiate that viewpoint. You'll argue your case relentlessly nonetheless, and criticize people like me who call you out on it. If you've read this far, you're probably thinking that I'm some overly-patriotic Liberal right winger. Probably from a red state. Er, no. I'm British, living in Britain. I'm not a big fan of the US, I just don't buy into all this Anti-american propaganda about how the NSA are spying on all of us and infringing upon our freedom. Call me naive if you want, and I know you will, but I don't care. I refuse to believe in something without evidence. Whether it's allogations of spying or God, if you can't substantiate, I won't believe you. It's as simple as that.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Fox Cloud Lelean, "blahblahblah"

That's a bit naive... Everybody is doing it it's part of the game. Never heard of the Boeing/Airbus economic intelligence gathering ?!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

if I heard someone spreading slanderous comments about a security organization, with allegedly confidential records as evidence, yet with no actual means of verifying the accuracy of the records, I'd be pretty sceptical. As would any rational person.

Wow. Just simply, wow. "...With no actual means of verifying the accuracy of the records...." Did you seriously put this forward as an example of you rationally addressing Snowden's revelations. "Allegedly" confidential records?! Judging by the U.S. intelligence community and government's reaction to Snowdens revelations, I don't think anyone sane is under the impression that the records Snowden revealed are anything but the real deal.

Call me naive if you want...

Naive isn't quite the word I'm looking for.

"I refuse to believe in something without evidence."

Umm.... The NSA admitted to the charges. Multiple times. Are you suggesting the NSA's admission of guilt to Snowden's charges requires proof in order to overcome your, ahem, "healthy" skepticism?

Again, wow.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Same ol' same ol' different day, different year. Not much anybody can do about it but just grin and bear it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Did you seriously put this forward as an example of you rationally addressing Snowden's revelations

Did you even read my comment? At what point do I talk about Snowden? Please, point out where I mention him, in name or otherwise. I think you'll find that I don't mention him. This isn't about Ed Snowden. From what I gather, the overall jury is still out on whether his leaks are genuine or not. Both sides make claims and counter claims. I'm not inclined to make any kind of decision on that matter. I see no reason to. As to your point about admitting guilt: That doesn't really mean a lot. I can admit to being responsible for 9/11. Does it mean that I actually am? Of course not. I'm not going to get into the possible reasons the NSA have for admitting guilt, if they actually did. There's probably several reasons.

Again, without evidence, nothing that has been revealed can be confirmed. Seeing reactions does not constitute evidence. It is much more likely to be damage limitation. What, you've never taken the rap for someone else's mistakes? Same scenario here I reckon, but of course, I have no evidence to substantiate that. I'm just going off intuition. Not being a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I tend not to assume that the NSA is reading my emails. To be honest, I'd feel sorry for them if they did.

It's easy to sit back and criticize me. That doesn't require thinking. You should try seeing things from my point of view, but that would be expecting too much. It would also stop you from trolling me. We can't have that now can we? I've said everything I needed to. I'm ending this conversation now.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

U.S. files first charges on hacking, infuriating China

It's hard to say anything without infuriating China these days.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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