U.S. Supreme Court splits its verdict on Arizona immigration law

RR, I usually agree with you, but on this it's more a 4th Amendment issue. Did you read the article I linked? Of course, when in Rome, do as the Romans, but how SCOTUS ruled further empowered the Police State. The parts they struck down would have supported fighting illegals seeking employment ironically, but rather they've in effect enabled illegals to engage in employment. Bizarre!

RR, I usually agree with you, but on this it's more a 4th Amendment issue. Did you read the article I linked? Of course, when in Rome, do as the Romans, but how SCOTUS ruled further empowered the Police State. The parts they struck down would have supported fighting illegals seeking employment ironically, but rather they've in effect enabled illegals to engage in employment. Bizarre!

So the SCOTUS upheld the section that should scare citizen and visitor alike: Papers, please! (The nice well-armed uniformed representative of the police state requests)

Pure nonsense. Legal aliens in this country are required to carry documentation at all times. It's even printed on the Green Card.

In other words, the SC just reiterated the already required rules on the books for legal residents. It's just part of the responsibility for being a legal resident alien of this nation. When I lived in Japan I had to follow the same requirements and carry my gaikokujin card on me at all times. It's called showing your respect to the nation that has allowed you to live in their country; which is one of the reason's why I detest illegals, period. They have no respect for the U.S.; a nation they claim they want to join.

RR

So the SCOTUS upheld the section that should scare citizen and visitor alike: Papers, please! (The nice well-armed uniformed representative of the police state requests)

@alphaape, you misunderstand my intent;migration was once very free and essentially unrestricted, hence US was the recipient of peoples from many various nations.

The issue of state-provided(by tax extortion) services is a whole other issue. Social programs as such attract moochers like flies to pies. End the handouts, and that includes public schools.

Regarding the SCOTUS decision, the devil surely IS in the details as the section upheld violates 4th Amendment protection. the Court’s ruling in Arizona v. United States sounds a warning far greater than the singular matter of how states deal with illegal immigration. To those who can hear it, it says beware: the police state is almost upon you." An exerpt from the following article :

http://lewrockwell.com/whitehead/whitehead48.1.html

I'm pretty sure that Arizona police officers are wondering how they'll interpret "reasonable suspicions", I don't think it is defined anywhere in the legislation. It'll be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation. They might get sued for enforcing the laws too aggressively or too passively.

Poor guys!

Elbunda: I hope I do not have to go to Arizona to suffer racism and get deported because my skin is not white, my eyes are not blue, my name is not Smith??

Well you certainly won't get deported just for being illegal, heaven forbid. Gotta break the law first, and none of the things you mentioned are illegal, last I checked. Sounds like you're just making up a lot of stuff and posting it wildly.

Mexicans are by far the largest recipients of legal immigration in the Unites States each year, and the US is a country that is at the top or near the top of countries accepting immigrants in the world each year. I lived in Tucson and most local service jobs require bilingual speakers in order to be hired. When you head south of the city the signs use kilometers, not miles. The is a statue of Pancho Villa, a man who slipped across the border and murdered Americans, but was considered a hero in Mexico. Until just recently, classes in schools were offered in Spanish. Water stations have been set up in the desert just to spare families the horror of dying of thirst trying to cross the border.

Illegal immigration is a problem that people are trying to solve. I don't know if Arizona's law is the solution, but the status quo won't due. And listening to you talk about "being arrested for not having blue eyes" makes me want to puke. Go visit Tucson and see how wel that victim card works out for you. Lord knows you won't have to use English.

I hope having menus one day catches on even here in Japan! Does this alone make me a bleeding heart liberal?? By the way I actually love sheriff Arpio!! In Mexico he has a great reputation!! While in the US too many folk worry about scum in jail, I'm sure president Obama understands better ways to deal with illegals too.

the top U.S. court unanimously upheld the statute’s ... requirement that police officers check the immigration status of people they stop, even for minor offenses such as jay-walking

That decision alone makes this ruling a win-win for my country. Thank you, SC.

RR

The US Supreme Court has only barely made this any clearer. So, police officers are required to check the immigration status of people they stop, but of course immigrants are not required to carry immigration papers at all times. So what do they do if status can't be proven either way? They can't arrest them for that - that's still up to the federal government. So cite it in the report that status can't be proven and let them go, right? And the Supreme Court also left this open-ended - they're reserving the right to review the case depending if the law is abused in practice. So this really means nothing yet.

EM: you either have a huge chip on your shoulder or you look like Emiliano Zapata. It's the Immigration Officer's job to profile everyone. Due to a car accident I wore a back brace of years and everytime I tried to pass through immigration I was ushered off to a private room for examination -- I didn't mind, it was their job and this was before 9/11. If you don't violate the driving laws in Arizona, you won't be stopped. Visiting our company office in L.A. dozens of times I talked with members of our Latin America department who mostly were born outside the US and without exception, everyone of them hate illegal aliens -- they are cheaters, is what I mostly heard. If you cheated on your final exam because your brother kept you up all night because he is sick with a terminal disease, that's sad but you still cheated on the test and that is wrong. Just like the Mexican who wants a better life sneaks in the the US, its admirable they want a better life, but they cheat to get it is wrong. Every country has some form of racism -- been to China?

that denies your right to being even treated like a NORMAL American citizen, just because of the color of your skin, or being asked if you want the menu etc..in SPANISH even though you were BORN in the USA,

@ Elbuda: We have to ask for a menu in Spanish in the USA because of liberals like you who like to sue businesses who don't offer it because you think they are violating your "civil rights." I get asked the same questions coming into America as you do, and once again, because of "super liberals" like you, Customs can't pull out the people who are most likely going to do some harm to the US based on how they look.

You want a menu in English, then I suggest you get with the rest of your pals in the ACLU and back the English only movement and not fight it in the courts.

The real tragedy is the US government in this case. Parts of the AZ law is upheld, yet the DHS has been ordered not to respond to the AZ officials when they have illegals unless they are a threat to National Security. I hope, that one of these persons who was being held and let go doesn't commit a very bad crime. Because if they do, the whole house of cards that the DHS and the Administration has built up on this issue will fall and the voters will remember that in November.

I hope I do not have to go to Arizona to suffer racism and get deported because my skin is not white, my eyes are not blue, my name is not Smith?? I know it may sound like a joke to some people, but imagine being born in a country that denies your right to being even treated like a NORMAL American citizen, just because of the color of your skin, or being asked if you want the menu etc..in SPANISH even though you were BORN in the USA, never been to Mexico, maybe never been to Canada but same difference, this is not fun. Going back to the USA for me is always a trip, the border dudes look at me like I MUST have drugs on me, and I say dude I AM COMING FROM JAPAN, drugs are going from the USA to Japan, not from JAPAN to the USA, as far as I know and these guys just laugh, why?? Because they know I am right. God I love democracy!! Go Obama go!!

Here is the answer to the second part question. Also, the Department of Justice is appointed by Obama and confirmed by the Senate. The head of the DOJ works for Obama.

I wonder if the homeland and security with justice departments have merged the effort to re-elect Obama?

The head of the Department of Homeland Security is appointed by Obama and confirmed by the Senate. The people who are appointed to a cabinet positions work for the President.

Cabinet of the United States @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cabinet

I wonder if the homeland and security with justice departments have merged the effort to re-elect Obama? U.S. can learn the way Japan handles the immigration policy, that would solve a lot of illegal problems including vote frauds.

I did not cross any border, the BORDER crossed me and all of my people! VIVA ATZLAN!!

@ Elbuda: You seem to be forgetting something from history. Those areas that used to be Mexico were conqured by Spain. Also in those areas that were conqured by Spain and given to Mexico were millions of native American Indian tribes. Arapaho, Cree, Sioux, and other Indian nations didn't speak Spanish. They spoke their own languages.

So you keep wanting to give land back, then I guess you mean that the land that was supposedly "Mexico's" should be given back to the Native Americans.

US legal immigration policy is largely to blame, being ridiculously restrictive. Easing immigration policy would reduce illegal immigration. A fully open border is best.

@Herve: Why is it that the USA has to open its borders for all peoples, but yet other countries have the right to restrict who comes in? So you are telling me that it is fair for me as a US taxpayer to pair my fair share of taxes, that goes for schools for US citizen children, and just because you "feel" that anyone in the world should be able to come to the USA, my taxes must go to pay for their children's schooling? How is that going to make things work.

Japanese legla immigration is very strict, and I don't see them having any problems. Also, you need to read on how Mexico treats the illegals who cross their southern border from Central America. They get no benefits, are mistreated and have no rights. Yet, we are supposed to give their citizens the rights that US citizens have? I don't think so.

Obama and the rest of the government that won't up-hold our own laws needs to go (any party) and stop trying to get votes by being "good old boys" and then govern by the laws of our country first as they all swore to do when they accepted office. The country in made from "legal" immigrants of all flavors, it should never make "ILLEGAL immigration" acceptable anytime for any reason no matter what flavor. VIVA - USA

Scalia, an Italian American wants to tell us Mexicans that we are illegal in our own part of the world, oh, geez, have we forgotten that from California to Texas it was all part of Mexico, had a bit of a war, Mexico lost the Pilgrims invaded and hence we still have this stupid situation.

This isn't about land it is about jobs, benefits, and education which Mexico failed to provide for a lot of Mexicans. That's why they want to migrate to the US. Hypothetical, if Mexico have won the Mexican-American war 1846-1848 and received California, New Mexico, and Texas Mexico would still be in the same situation with Mexicans wanting to get a better life and education. People would not want to migrate in masses to America if their country was flourising and have liberty, life, and freedom.

Maybe you should survey the Mexicans and ask them are they in the country to take back the land or are they looking for a better life?

Scalia, an Italian American wants to tell us Mexicans that we are illegal in our own part of the world, oh, geez, have we forgotten that from California to Texas it was all part of Mexico, had a bit of a war, Mexico lost the Pilgrims invaded and hence we still have this stupid situation. As our Chicano brothers said a long time ago, hey vato, I did not cross any border, the BORDER crossed me and all of my people! VIVA ATZLAN!! Good on the Obama administration and I can not wait to see that sour puss look and that nasty old woman, governor of Arizona and old fart sheriff Arpio??

Sorry, Elbuda but that argument won't fly. So that would mean that the Japanese have to give the land back to the Ainu, The Aussies have to give their land back to the Aborigines, the Whites Need to leave South Africa. I can give you example after example. Was it right what our ancestors did, NO! But that was the way business was done, you showed your power by how much land or people you owned and conquered. Nowadays, societies could never get away with doing anything like that, yes, some are trying here and there, but otherwise, it just won't happen like that. You can't claim the US as yours anymore than Scalia can claim Italy as his country or Leonardo DiCaprio claiming Germany (he's closer to his German roots) or Wesley Snipes claiming Africa etc. I'm an American, that's it, NOT by choice, it just happened that way and I get tired of this argument that we have no right to have sovereign borders, because of our ancestors drawing out and mapping the lines of the country many Mexicans think they have the right to come in anytime they want. I really believe we all can benefit from comprehensive LEGAL immigration, but to get preferential treatment and jumping ahead of people that have been waiting for a long time and followed the law properly is an insult and absolutely wrong and unethical! But when you voice your opinion it makes you a racist, and I know as being multi-ethnic myself, I know in America it is very easy to pull to the race card, because once you do that, it ends the argument for now you are the bad person, how dare you attack them it's because of their color or this or that... but when Mexicans say they have the right to come in and out anytime they wish is justified?? If you have no borders, you have no sovereign nation. Again, I am always happy when people from anywhere in the world are happy and want to become legal citizens, it just gives great diversity and makes the country as a whole stronger, BUT it needs to be done "legally!" How does Mexico deal with foreigners? I know Mexico has a very strict policy when dealing with foreigners. They will not hesitate to deport you if you are there illegally. So what's the difference with what the US is doing. Asking for Alien registration cards? We live in Japan, you will get arrested on the spot if you don't have it. I always have mine, does it bother me, NO! I am so desensitized to it, it is just routine for me. I don't care, that is the law and I need to follow it, if I don't like it, I have the option of leaving. I want Immigration reform, but NO president since Reagan has every really touched the issue properly, none of them. It is a complex issue one that should have been dealt with 30 years ago.

After the ruling, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security rescinded the authority a joint state-federal task force had given Arizona to enforce federal immigration laws, senior administration officials said.

They are going to go after the people who illegally download songs/movie and shutdown piracy websites because it is what their big boss told them to do instead of helping Arizona with immigration.

U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown By BEN SISARIO @ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html

The Department Of Homeland Security Has Brought Down A Baltimore Flea Market by Robert Johnson @ http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-24/news/31390229_1_quality-of-brand-names-counterfeit-goods-patapsco-flea-market

Bgood41 touched on a good point;the continent was clonised by several European cultures at the extreme expense, often genocide, of the indigenous peoples. Hawai'i is another terrible example.

US legal immigration policy is largely to blame, being ridiculously restrictive. Easing immigration policy would reduce illegal immigration. A fully open border is best.

ElbudaMexicano is very correct that the problem is that the border moved.

Neither Obama nor Romney have a real solution.

He did that as "Obama"

Scalia is hilarious.....Maybe he did that because his party (Republican) blocked the Dream Act.

That settles it, I am moving to Cancun and taking it over!

Immediately after the ruling, Obama's administration stops assisting the local authority on illegal immigration; except felony case. How desperate it is for Obama to pull all tricks for gaining Hispanic votes. The Fed has the laws and not willing to enforce it? There should be an open and complete overhaul of immigration policy instead of these baits and switches. America is not Mexico, the law must be enforced and respected by all citizens. In most part of the world, illegal immigrants are very much underground, but in the U.S. some even go to vote illegally. Legal process of immigration is the way and the law of the land. U.S. needs a comprehensive immigration reform to facilitate all immigrants. Regarding history, there were Indians, indigenous peoples live in Americas before the Spaniard and European invasion. Spain does not want all Latinos or Spanish from South America to return to Spain thus returning the land back to Indians neither. There are plenty of dirt to be exploited by all abusers.

This may sound like a horrible joke, but 100% US citizens have been deported from the USA, why?? Oh, this kid has black hair, black eyes, very dark brown skin so HE MUST BE A WETBACK?? Oops!! Guess who will be a whole lot richer $$$$ after making a LAW SUIT against the ICE, US border patrol etc..??This is no joke, some kids born and raised in the USA have been deported down to Mexico, not anchor babies, maybe 3rd? 4th? 5th? generation Mexican American kids, etc..who do not even speak SPANISH and thrown out of the USA to fend for themselves in Mexico, while thousands of HISPANICS are giving their lives for the USA out in Iraq, Afghanistan, before in VietNam etc..what a way to say GRACIAS??

This means that even if Arizona police hold illegal immigrants, they cannot deport them unless they also broke a state law, said Evelyn Cruz, an immigration law professor at Arizona State University.

What do they do? Ask them politely to leave?

Scalia, an Italian American wants to tell us Mexicans that we are illegal in our own part of the world, oh, geez, have we forgotten that from California to Texas it was all part of Mexico, had a bit of a war, Mexico lost the Pilgrims invaded and hence we still have this stupid situation. As our Chicano brothers said a long time ago, hey vato, I did not cross any border, the BORDER crossed me and all of my people! VIVA ATZLAN!! Good on the Obama administration and I can not wait to see that sour puss look and that nasty old woman, governor of Arizona and old fart sheriff Arpio??