Photos of U.S. troops abusing corpses fuel anger, NATO exit from Afghanistan

“There will always be incidents when violence in the extreme is encountered on both sides, whether it is in this case (U.S.) soldiers desecrating bodies or in another other case Taliban soldiers taking pictures of beheadings.

we believe that we are living in civilized 21st century but future generations may think it was stone-age era, very sad indeed.

Time for the US troops to get the hell out of Afghanistan, this is just wrong, killing is not right, then abusing your enemies corpses?? Is just messed up, so my guess is that the guys doing this must be some real psychos, I hate to see what kind of BS they will pull when they go back to the USA!! This happens after EVERY War and not just too Americans but to all of those who go and kill etc..in wars, very, very sad and I will say it again, time to get the hell out of there, move these troops over to South Korea where we really need them now.

The last thing a U.S. soldier needs in a life and death situation is someone at their side who does not believe in what they are fighting for. People in the service are just as bright and intelligent as those who would never dream of serving. They have opinions, they debate politics and they vote. The only difference is that they are actually in the area that we talked about, risking their lives, and have first hand knowledge with some of the things that are discussed.

With all these things coming out now, it seems that perhaps they want to cause a reaction from the other side. Add this to the recent report of the Afghan military expected to be broke soon, it seems they want to delay their scheduled pullout.

One word - arrogance

and these are troops from a country that continually claims the higher moral ground in its dubious efforts to bring 'freedom' to the rest of the world....

American soldiers and Taliban insurgents seem to be same in Afghanistan. War makes all crazy all over the country.

The real enemy is war itself...

What bugs me most about this case isn't that the incident happened, those soldiers are under tremendous stress fighting a war for no good reason and while I don't condone their actions I can understand how it happened. No, what bugs me is that it took 2 years for the photos to come to light and that the U.S. government actively tried to censor the media. So much for "land of the free" and "a free press". It also shows that well before the January incident with urinating on corpses the U.S. government was aware of this sort of incident, but chose to cover it up rather than addressing the issue. They're now complicit in the action and have no excuse. They should resign and be criminally prosecuted as traitors.

I will say it again, time to get the hell out of there, move these troops over to South Korea where we really need them now.

Who's "we"? Are you South Korean? Are you American?

Or are you just somebody who wants to send US troops to various hot spots around the world just so that your country does not have to do so?

Were you one of the "we" when US troops were first sent to Afghanistan almost 10 years ago?

grammefriday

and these are troops from a country that continually claims the higher moral ground in its dubious efforts to bring 'freedom' to the rest of the world....

The "freedom" to pee on and abuse the corpses of their dead enemy, no thank you, they may have been enemies but they do not have to suffer the indignity of being desecrated in death.

Not anti-US but I say hand these guys over to the locals and watch these incidents stop real quick.

In the LA Times picture, it looks like the guy on the left is an Afghan troop, posing with the US soldiers.

People blowing themselves up should deserve worse.

When NATO gets out, Afghanistan will return to the Taliban and Karzai will flee the country with the state coffer.

The Taliban have suffered some heavy losses but gained some recruits (jailbreaks) recently. They will be wanting material like this for getting their troops fired up for the spring offensive.

Perfect material and perfect timing. Win win.

"A good fight is never clean" nor is it only physical. The aim is not only to defeat your enemy physical but to mentally frustrate him and / or break his will.

I'm not saying what these boys have done is right but it's to be expected. They'll be punished for this and from there we move on.

There will be lots of opinions posted here but until you are out there in the trenches on patrol in the desert, you'll never know. Most of us have no right to criticize what they do and the means about how they do it while we get into BMWs and cruise up Omotesando for shopping.

You owe those soldiers much more than they receive.

“The only way to put an end to such painful experiences is through an accelerated and full transition of security responsibilities to Afghan forces,” his office said in a statement.

Sadly this is a true statement. Because the US military seems incapable of instilling in its own troops a sense of moral decency and a sense of right and wrong. Unfortunately it also seems that a minority of US troops are giving all the rest a bad name by their stupid antics time and again. But l guess that is what happens when you over commit and have to take the bottom of the rung people to make up your numbers.

Frungy

So much for "land of the free" and "a free press".

The US Department of Homeland Security has just ordered 450 million .40 Caliber "hollow point" cartridges! Think about that number, 450 million.

There never was a land of the free.

Who cares; it's a suicide bomber - a Darwinian Awardist if ever seen one.

lostrune2

Who cares; it's a suicide bomber - a Darwinian Awardist if ever seen one.

Exactly, afterall its only an Afghani right? Do you remember the outrage when the dead Americans bodies where put on public display and mutilated in Somalia and again in Iraq. The cries of horror emanating from the US of how these savages could do that to dead US soldiers.

I guess its different when the US soldiers are doing it to another nationality though, true?

helping Karzai's government, Karzai's call, Karzai has already accused. Not even once in the article the current President of Afghanistan is mentioned with his full name and title. Only with his last name. On the other hand: US President Barack Obama's.

Showing some respect towards the President of Afghanistan wouldn't hurt. Especially in an article like this.

“It is such a disgusting act to take photos with body parts and then share it with others,” Karzai said.

USA army is disgusting and pervert and losers from every possible angle. I cannot understand how some women get married to perverts from the US military...it is the worst nightmare to be married to a criminal who kills other people and then abuses the corpses and takes pictures with body parts. Kimochi warui.

At this point, who really cares. The insurgent could have successfully blown up a school full of children and there would be less press and outrage. The perspective is too far out of whack and that won't be changing anytime soon. If you want to be outraged, then go ahead. Cry a river.

Those brave men (and women) are facing a ruthless enemy who only has TWO rules.

The only good foreigner is a DEAD foreigner! We can do what ever we want to you but you can NOT do it back to us (the good old Double-standard)

The biggest thing the troops did wrong? The allowed themselves to be photographed doing things that happen in war.

War is hell and unless you have actually been there you are nothing more than an "arm-chair quarterback." Sadly you use the freedom of speech that those men and women protect for you to criticize them.

SuperLib

At this point, who really cares. The insurgent could have successfully blown up a school full of children and there would be less press and outrage. The perspective is too far out of whack and that won't be changing anytime soon. If you want to be outraged, then go ahead. Cry a river.

Did the insurgent blow up a school full of kids? No...

Did US military personal abuse the corpse? Yes

Do Americans get upset when this happens to one of their own troops? Definitely yes.

So l guess the point he is the US expects people to treat its dead with respect but it doesnt matter how the US treats dead from other countries right?

But typically rather than acknowledge the facts at hand you try to twist it, "oh he could have done this or that blah blah blah". Fact yes he was a bad person, yes he was dead, yes US troops abused his body. Just look back at the outcry when your guys bodies got dragged through the streets of Somalia, the cries of savages and how dare they desecrate our dead. Now look in the mirror.

Nice one Frank. Very truthful

“It is such a disgusting act to take photos with body parts and then share it with others,” Karzai said.

I hope Karzai is also going after his Afghan security forces also. They were in the pictures with the US soldiers and also holding up the bodies. As a matter of fact, according to the article, the dead were not killed by the US, but because they either blew themselves up or in one case the bomb malfunctioned and blew themselves up prematurely. The US soldiers were sent to the locations to gather fingerprints and other data that would enable them to conduct a cross check to see who they are.

So, these guys were killed by their own actions, and Afghani soliders also posed with them. I think Karzi needs to step back and clean his own house first before going after the US.

Abusing corpses or poisoning school girls' drinking water? I'll go with corpse abuse for 300, Alex.

sjpf: "...and have first hand knowledge with some of the things that are discussed."

Including urinating on corpses, going into villages to slaughter innocents in their sleep, posing with dead enemies' body parts in inhumane fashions. You're right, of course, that there ARE men and women serving who are every bit as intelligent and opinionated, etc., as the rest of us, but clearly there are some soldiers who are as bad as if not worse than the insurgents themselves.

SuperLib: "At this point, who really cares."

Only a person who actually DOESN'T care needs to ask themselves why, and then sit down and seriously think about who and what they are, and stand for.

"The insurgent could have successfully blown up a school full of children and there would be less press and outrage."

There would be less of what you say because it would be the insurgents doing it to their own people, and since they are not Americans or NATO personnel it would of COURSE garner less interest and subsequently less coverage over here. It would also be more expected. The reason for so much more press and outrage is entirely warranted -- the US and NATO are supposed to be there to HELP the nation and its peoples, not to cause more harm, and needless to say not to go out and shoot a bunch of innocents.

"The perspective is too far out of whack and that won't be changing anytime soon. If you want to be outraged, then go ahead. Cry a river."

Must be a sensitive topic for you. So what are you suggesting, we lower the bar for our forces over there and treat them as insurgents so they get equal (ie. less) coverage and media hype? I mean, clearly some of them BEHAVE as bad or worse than the insurgents, but still.

They should definitely just get out of there, and fast. Seems the longer they are there the more harm they do to others and in terms themselves, which puts them more at risk and gives the insurgents, especially the Taliban, a better grip on power and more appeal to the Afghani people. As for Karzai's demands, I still say the guy's a jack-a&$ who plays both sides, and he'll buckle as soon as the troops are gone. Help him train his own army and police while the US and NATO troops are still there, and provide some assistance when gone, but Karzai's demands tend to be outrageous.

Who cares; it's a suicide bomber - a Darwinian Awardist if ever seen one.

Exactly, afterall its only an Afghani right?

Who cares if he's an Afghan; he could be an American for all anyone cares. Doesn't change that every suicide bomber is a Darwin Awardist.

Yes, but the US did bring freedom to Afghanistan!

So it cost a few lives.

I can undestand them doing this, as mentioned the by others in JT, the stress of war and all that. However they should be more proffessional about doing their jobs as soldiers. Do what they have to do, clean up and move to the next job.

"Those brave men (and women) are facing a ruthless enemy who only has TWO rules. 1. The only good foreigner is a DEAD foreigner! 2. We can do what ever we want to you but you can NOT do it back to us (the good old Double-standard)

The biggest thing the troops did wrong? The allowed themselves to be photographed doing things that happen in war.

War is hell and unless you have actually been there you are nothing more than an "arm-chair quarterback." Sadly you use the freedom of speech that those men and women protect for you to criticize them."

@Frank Vaughn: I second what JapanGal said!! You bring up a very excellent point!!

for a country that claims to have the moral high ground, these "incidents" happen a little too often.

@toguro so lowering yourself to the enemies standards is ok?

1) How many of those who do such things are full time military?

2) How many are weekend warriors who got called up and sent to fight?

Someone who is a part time military reservist and does a normal civilian job most of the year suddenly finds himself in a foreign country with the constant threat of being shot at.

3) Would they be even able to behave as well as some one who has lived 24/7 in the military?

Cletus, complain all you want. Thats why the story was printed. You have every right to and I'm not going to stop you. I'm just saying its meaningless to me that you are angry.

Two days ago the Taliban poisoned 150 schoolgirls in Afghanistan, all because they had the audacity to get an education. There is a reason why the picture story is printed and the schoolgirl story isn't. I think you know why, and Zi think you don't care. That about makes us even.

SuperLib

Two days ago the Taliban poisoned 150 schoolgirls in Afghanistan, all because they had the audacity to get an education. There is a reason why the picture story is printed and the schoolgirl story isn't. I think you know why, and Zi think you don't care. That about makes us even.

Yes because you know exactly what lm thinking dont you..... Good try at deflecting from the facts

I apologize for brining perspective. Please, carry on. There's more work for you to do.

LOL typical Afghani response:

“The only way to put an end to such painful experiences is through an accelerated and full transition of security responsibilities to Afghan forces,” his office said in a statement.

...followed quickly by:

...Karzai has already accused NATO this week of failures that allowed the Taliban to launch major attacks in Kabul and has demanded the U.S. “write down” that it will commit at least $2 billion a year to Afghanistan’s security after 2014.

"You will give us ALL the security responsibilities now... except for paying the bills. YOU must continue paying for it after 2014!"

Troops play death metal or hard rock in tanks as they blow up enemies. They sometimes show pictures of their POWs naked and abused. They ask for permission to blow people to smithereens via their radios (wikileaks). Here, they pose with dead "insurgents" that they have killed, or that have killed themselves.

The US troops are human, scared and very stressed. A common method of defeating stress is via humor. Another is by distancing oneself, elevating oneself from the dead; "this guy died but I am still very much alive". Boys, essentially, with adrenalin and equipment -- canon, massively powerful machine guns, weapons of considerable if not mass destruction -- fearing for their own lives, eight parts hating what they are doing, engage in an imaginary yet real world of laughter and destruction. They abuse the dead of their enemies, they laugh and also they die. Throughout the ages probably, the troops, the grunts on the ground have indulged themselves, laughed, held up heads, kept themselves sane, insane, going, onwards forwards, killing, defending themselves, defending their leaders, their principles and scared to incontinence, laughing, and killing more. The whole thing is, of course, horrible.

My point is that these pictures are not some aberrant behavior of some "non-professional" soldiers (as the US generals claim) but a part of the horror. In a way it is good that we can see the horror, that their smiles, their wildness, their irreverence is caught on camera because even if it is not, the emotion, the trip, is going down on the ground. This is what war is.

Its war, this is what happens. If Native American warriors had cameras back then im sure they would show themselves skalping their enemies at least a few times. the media dont really report much on the few good things that happen because it wouldn't really get a response like an article like this does and it wont report on the things the taliban has done but atrocities will happen on both sides and thats just how it is. like i said its war, not a friendly game of laser tag

"anti-U.S. anger in Afghanistan"

Any anti-Taliban anger in Afghanistan?

So pretty much the went in to the middle east all guns blazing. Didn't achieve much at all except for securing various natural resources (oil). Haven't managed to squish many if any terrorist groups. Lost a huge amount military lives. Killed a huge amount of civilians indirectly and in some cases directly....... and now they want to get out of there as fast as possible? Where is the sense in any of that. Urgh, makes me sick.

The only good that that came of it was that saddam hussein was brought down. That's about it. I would also say assassinating bin laden. But lets be honest, that assassination has so many questions left un answered. I don't believe assassination is even ethical. Not too mention they entered into pakistan illegally to do it. The part where the article says they won't see riots on the streets is because they have sucked the life out of everyone living there. This whole 10 year affair has caused nothing but more problems.

So they were abusing the corpse? I thought they were just holding up the legs of the corpse as if to say, "Here's one less fanatic I have to worry about."

The US and NATO will be seen as loser when their troops running out of afghanistan and Taliban insurgents take over Kabul, toppling Kazari, implying strict islamic laws and glorifying Osama Bin Laden is matyr!

@Dennis Bauer: When and where did I write/say that it was ok?

Next time don't take pictures. I think that the handbooks of all Government and Military officials need to be re-written with big letters and small words in a common sense way so that we can avoid these kinds of situations. New guidelines should include.

Don't take pictures...period. Whether you're using tax payer money to take a bath and drink wine or if you feel like holding up parts of a suicide bomber. If you do something stupid don't make a scene. Seriously, quit taking pictures. No good will come of them.

Some of the reports I've read seem to indicate that the soldiers involved were among those tasked with collecting and processing remains of suicide bombers for identification. I'm sorry but when you're doing a job like that you're probably going to develop a very dark sense of humor. Guy blew himself up, at that point I'm kind of done caring about what happens to the body.

My husband says and I agree, "There is no excuse for Americans troops to do these things. They are suppose to take the high road and while the foe takes the low road. It is never a valid excuse to imitate the foe."

Absolutely disgusting, but no surprise, unfortunately. These cowboys think they can go anywhere in the world and do what they like.

There will be lots of opinions posted here but until you are out there in the trenches on patrol in the desert, you'll never know. Most of us have no right to criticize what they do and the means about how they do it while we get into BMWs and cruise up Omotesando for shopping.

Netninja, going by your logic, then nobody has the right to criticise Tepco if they don't work for a nuclear energy company. People have EVERY right to criticise any soldier, American or otherwise, who desecrates corpses or goes on cold blooded killing sprees.

Well, it is against US military rules to do this, but the Taliban don't care. They will tell everyone that it is 'representative' of US troops.

How will the anonymous donor of these photos and LA Times staff feel once the bloody revenge attacks start, I wonder? Will they still be justifying publication by saying it was to help rebuild internal morale and strengthen command structures?

President Obama is such a cowboy for doing this. He should be held accountable. How would he feel if this happened to one of the terrorists he knows?

The Afghan nationals and Western troops killed by jihadist suicide bombers don´t cause any excitement. But disrespect to the corpses of the glorious suicide-bomber martyrs.... that gets the blood boiling in our dear friends and allies like President Karzai.

Kind of the like the absurdity of the whole Afghan mess in a nutshell...

My husband says and I agree, "There is no excuse for Americans troops to do these things. They are suppose to take the high road and while the foe takes the low road. It is never a valid excuse to imitate the foe."

Who's the foe, Yuri?

smithinjapanApr. 20, 2012 - 03:28PM JST sjpf: "...and have first hand knowledge with some of the things that are discussed." Including urinating on corpses, going into villages to slaughter innocents in their sleep, posing with dead enemies' body parts in inhumane fashions. You're right, of course, that there ARE men and women serving who are every bit as intelligent and opinionated, etc., as the rest of us, but clearly there are some soldiers who are as bad as if not worse than the insurgents themselves.

Are you that naive? Over and over again the military leadership claims that these acts are committed by an aberrant minority of military personnel. As stories of American troops “inhuman” treatment of Afghans continue to emerge, we should start questioning the explanations given by our military’s leadership. These troops are being scapegoated, because the problem is not with a few aberrant troops, but with the U.S. military itself. U.S. veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan provided testimony about the military’s process of dehumanizing the enemy. To conduct the war, the military enforced a culture of “contempt and disgust” for citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan.

There is a frustration with the way military leadership blames our soldiers for acting “inhumanely.” Shifting blame to a few “bad apples” is a convenient way of denying responsibility for fostering a culture of contempt and disgust for the “enemy.” I wonder, what would happen if we challenged military leadership to stop teaching our troops to dehumanize our “enemies”? Of course, if that happened, there may not be anyone left to kill.

Sadly you use the freedom of speech that those men and women protect for you to criticize them.

I laugh why I hear/read things like this. Those men and women are there to protect the profits of the MIC, nothing more. Freedoms are being taken away by your own government.

MIC

MIC MSM MOUSE. Why is it some people think they will come across as more in the know than they actually are if they use these meaningless acronyms? That is actually quite laughable.

The scandal has reflected the 'true colours' of their mission!