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U.S. urges China to let Hong Kong's voices be heard

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Immagine that! I agree with the current administration on this issue. Mostly because I little respect for the Chinese governing beliefs and methods.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Chinese have the habit of speaking so loud, disregarding the surrounding; and only heard own voices. More power and money tend to make them even louder such as communist China who only care for one's own ugly rhetoric.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Give a middle finger to Beijing as saying "Kiss My Ass".

Keep fighting for freedom!!

We, the world will support for the independence of Hong Kong.

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More power and money tend to make them even louder such as communist China

China is about as communist as The Democratic People's Republc of Korea is democratic.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Isn't Socialist and Communist somewhat synonymous?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Only in the eyes of Americans.

That is to say, no, they aren't.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Mark

Isn't Socialist and Communist somewhat synonymous?

Absolutely not. Look at the history of Europe between the wars; the Socialists and Communists were fighting each other to the death in Weimar Germany and Spain, to name just two countries.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

" China is about as communist as The Democratic People's Republc of Korea is democratic."

What's the official government system in China? Oh, right, SINGLE PARTY SOCIALIST.

" The PRC is a single-party state governed by the Communist Party…"

" After the defeat of the Empire of Japan in World War II, the Communist Party defeated the nationalist Kuomintang in mainland China and established the People's Republic of China in Beijing on 1 October 1949, while the Kuomintang relocated the ROC government to its present capital of Taipei."

And we all know how wonderfully kind Mao and the Maoists were/are. How many millions were killed?

Mao's "Great Leap Forward" resulted in about 45million deaths, largely due to starvation, and the execution of approximately 2 million landowners as "counterrevolutionaries".

The difference between socialist and communist is a very thin red line.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

where is andy lau and aaron kwok? are they ok in the demostration?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

So we can safely assume that because you think that since the CPP calls themselves communist equates to the country being communist that N. Korea is democratic because they call themselves democratic. Got it.

No you don't got it. If the CPC calls themselves communists, and they are the entire government, than the government of China is Communist. Does that mean the economic system is going to be communist? Nope, in theory it should but not always just like how capitalism in theory should pretty much always be laissez-faire but almost all capitalistic economies are not laissez-faire economies. It just means that the political system is going to be communist, more specifically democratic centralism which is pretty close to what the Soviet Union was and they, the soviet government, called themselves communists.

Also your comparison to North Korea doesn't even make sense considering the fact that China's official name doesn't even have the word Communist or Socialist or any other word related to them in its official name, it is the People's Republic of China. I don't believe bgood41 was calling China communist because of its official name, he or she is calling them communist because that is the name of the political party in complete control of the government.

Also Socialist is in fact synonymous with Communist. Communism is really just a much more extreme form of socialism.

Absolutely not.

Yes they are synonymous Lucabrasi. Look at any dictionary, or the vast majority of dictionaries for that matter, that contains synonyms for Socialism/Socialist and Communism/Communists and you will see that they are in fact considered synonymous

Look at the history of Europe between the wars; the Socialists and Communists were fighting each other to the death in Weimar Germany and Spain, to name just two countries.

So what? Just because two parties of similar ideologies fight one another doesn't mean they can't be synonymous with one another.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

No you don't got it. If the CPC calls themselves communists, and they are the entire government, than the government of China is Communist.

I never made any claims as to the government - I agree they try to call themselves Communists. I said China is as communist as N. Korea is democratic. The fact is that callings themselves communist doesn't make China communist. If they followed the tenets of communism they would be communist. But they don't, and therefor they aren't.

N. Korean calls itself democratic. China calls itself communist. Either you believe that the name defines the state, and therefore China is communist and N. Korea is democratic, or you believe that the actions define the state, and China is not communist nor is N. Korea is democratic. You can't have it both ways.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

" The fact is that callings themselves communist doesn't make China communist."

Yeah.....right..... Go right on believing that DoubleSpeak.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Isn't Socialist and Communist somewhat synonymous?

Socialism isn't it the transitional phase between capitalism and communism ? In socialism you still have classes, which are disappearing in communism.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yeah.....right..... Go right on believing that DoubleSpeak.

So you think that the DPRK is democratic then. As you wish.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I think Stranger nailed that one.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

StrangerlandJul. 03, 2014 - 10:36AM JST China is about as communist as The Democratic People's Republc of Korea is democratic.

Will you please hang this up already? COMMUNIST CHINA is a label of reference, AKA Mainland China, Red China for The Peoples Republic of China (which I am sure you will point out neither represents the people nor is a republic), It differentiates "China" from the Republic of China and Hong Kong is discussions and is used by all news medias. The PRC themselves call selves Communist and nobody seems to have a problem wit it but nit-picky you.

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COMMUNIST CHINA is a label of reference

I'm simply pointing out the facts. If people don't like the facts being pointed out to them, then they should stick to them.

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Shame it's the US having to make that statement, while the UK is noticeably silent.

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Steven C. SchulzJul. 03, 2014 - 10:04PM JST

Shame it's the US having to make that statement, while the UK is noticeably silent.

Doesn't it make you feel shame? This is a classic response from UK. No surprise. What did you do to the Middle East, UK? What did you do for the South Africa? You have something to show in history. Great!!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Steven

Indeed. Great Britain today is too focused on the European Union rather than the commonwealth and her historical allies, and as such is loosing influence with them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Dylan,

Indeed. As Hong Kong's former metropolitan, the UK should take the PRC to the International Court of Justice for not following the spirit on the 1984 agreement.

And the YK needs to go ahead and trigger its withdrawal from the European Union. "Ever closer union" is fundamentally incompatible with the notion of parliamentary sovereignty and the greater interests of the UK as a world power.

A Commonwealth Federation, including Hong Kong.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I never made any claims as to the government

Oh for crying out loud Stranger, when Bgood41 made his or her comment guess what he or she was talking about? The government. In fact in the following statement you are making claims to the government.

I said China is as communist as N. Korea is democratic.

Both of which are forms of government and as I pointed out your comparison doesn't make sense because Bgood41 wasn't calling China Communist because of its official name. So what is the point of bringing up North Korea's official name? The only time it would make sense is if Bgood41 was claiming that China was communist because of its official title.

The fact is that callings themselves communist doesn't make China communist.

Agreed.

If they followed the tenets of communism they would be communist. But they don't, and therefor they aren't.

But they do in fact follow tenets of communism. Do they follow all tenets of communism? No they do not but then again no one follows all tenets of any ideology. For example because Christians engage in pre-marital sex or lie every once in a while mean they are not christian? Is a serial killer that attends church regular and believes in god make them less christian because they murder people?

"China Is Communist in Name Only." Wrong. If Vladimir Lenin were reincarnated in 21st-century Beijing and managed to avert his eyes from the city's glittering skyscrapers and conspicuous consumption, he would instantly recognize in the ruling Chinese Communist Party a replica of the system he designed nearly a century ago for the victors of the Bolshevik Revolution. One need only look at the party's structure to see how communist -- and Leninist -- China's political system remains.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/5_myths_about_the_chinese_communist_party

or you believe that the actions define the state, and China is not communist nor is N. Korea is democratic. You can't have it both ways.

China's political system is very much communist, it dumped for the most part the economic model but the political system is very much the same as the Leninist model of the Soviet Union. Again more of this worthless N. Korea democratic comparison.

Here is an article that explains why "democratic" is in the North Korean name.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/04/the_undemocratic_peoples_republic_of_korea.html

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Steven C. SchulzJul. 03, 2014 - 10:04PM JST

Shame it's the US having to make that statement, while the UK is noticeably silent.

Apparently, you and UK have no understanding a history of the Middle East. What the UK did for the Middle East and Africa was very toxic and it will never been forgotten and forgiven by me. Shame on UK!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

" So you think that the DPRK is democratic then. As you wish."

No, those are your words, not mine. I would say DPRK is a hell-hole with an idiot as dictstor. Yes, they all vote for him. It's him or death/re-education camp. If you can call that democracy, well... good luck to you.

As far as HK is concerned, their SAR is about to go the way of Tienamen Square, possibly.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oh for crying out loud Stranger, when Bgood41 made his or her comment guess what he or she was talking about? The government.

No, the comment was on 'Communist China', not on 'the communist government of China'. It's right up there for you to see.

Both of which are forms of government and as I pointed out your comparison doesn't make sense because Bgood41 wasn't calling China Communist because of its official name.

Which of course is incorrect, since bgood was referring to the country, and not the government.

But they do in fact follow tenets of communism. Do they follow all tenets of communism?

They follow almost none of the tenets of communism, and most definitely not the main tenets.

So to say it once again, the only thing communist about China is the name of its political party. It does not follow the tenets of communism, nor act in a communist manner. It's actually more capitalist than communist these days, but technically it's an oligarchy.

No, those are your words, not mine.

Yes, they are my words, but your logic. You are saying that China is communist because they call themselves communist. Therefore, the country is defined by the name they call themselves. The DPRK call themselves democratic. Therefore by your logic they are democratic.

You can argue it all you want, but you can't have it both ways. Either the name defines the country, or the actions do. But trying to say that the name defines China while the actions define N. Korea just shows that you are inconsistent and don't want to admit you are wrong.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Strangerland, it was you who compared the two. That's YOUR logic, if you can call it that. I only pointed out that China's party indeed calls itself Communist(which it is). That said, DPRK is technically democratic, though ostensibly an "elected" dictatorship.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No, the comment was on 'Communist China', not on 'the communist government of China'. It's right up there for you to see.

Right, Communist China means the government of China is Communist. Not exactly difficult to figure out now is it?

Take for example this statement:

China is about as communist as The Democratic People's Republc of Korea is democratic

Seeing as the statement above is not "The democratic government of North Korea" one has to wonder what this person is referring to, are they referring to the system of government that rules North Korea or are they referring to the entire society's culture, economic system, government, medical system, military, etc?

Are you seriously going to be this tedious Stranger?

since bgood was referring to the country, and not the government.

Wow just wow.

They follow almost none of the tenets of communism, and most definitely not the main tenets.

So you believe RICHARD MCGREGOR who wrote the following:

"China Is Communist in Name Only." Wrong. If Vladimir Lenin were reincarnated in 21st-century Beijing and managed to avert his eyes from the city's glittering skyscrapers and conspicuous consumption, he would instantly recognize in the ruling Chinese Communist Party a replica of the system he designed nearly a century ago for the victors of the Bolshevik Revolution. One need only look at the party's structure to see how communist -- and Leninist -- China's political system remains.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/5_myths_about_the_chinese_communist_party

Is wrong in stating that the Chinese government structure is communist?

China pretty much follows the main tenants of Communism except for the Economic ones and even then they follow some of them.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Right, Communist China means the government of China is Communist. Not exactly difficult to figure out now is it?

Then you think the DPRK is democratic.

The fact that one is the name of the political party, and the other is the name of the country, is irrelevant. They are both names. And for that matter, if the name is what defines the country, then it would be even stronger that the DPRK would be democratic, as we all know political parties can have names that don't match their political beliefs. Look at the Liberal Democratic party of Japan for a prime example. Not at all liberal.

Either the name defines the country, or the actions do. If it's the name, then China is communist, and N. Korea is democratic. If it's the actions, then China is not communist, nor is the DPRK democratic. You cannot have it both ways.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Then you think the DPRK is democratic.

Nope....I just think it is absolutely absurd and completely tedious to claim that because someone who says communist china, and it is widely common knowledge the party that rules China is Communist and you yourself know that, but doesn't say the government of China is communist means that you can't figure it out that bgood41 is talking about the government system of China and yet you are miraculously able say this:

China is about as communist as The Democratic People's Republc of Korea is democratic

And for that matter, if the name is what defines the country, then it would be even stronger that the DPRK would be democratic

Sadly you don't seem to understand the context the word "Democratic" is being used even after being provided a link as to why the word "Democratic" is being used in communist country names.

Democratic is being used to refer to the word Demos and its rare definition meaning The Common People or Masses.

Here is the link again since you seemed to have missed it:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/04/the_undemocratic_peoples_republic_of_korea.html

Although the North Koreans used the modifier democratic to claim a unique local identity, other countries—like Laos (1975) and East Germany (1949) —had a more specific intention. These weren't bourgeois republics, like those found in Western Europe, but countries organized to serve the demos or common people. So "democratic" was really just another way of saying "socialist republic." Like many other socialist states, they went the way of totalitarianism. Thus we get the seemingly inverse relationship between the use of the word democratic and the actual democratic structure of the country in question.

So the name could be read as The Common People's Republic of Korea or The Socialist People's Republic of Korea.

If we go by its actions China's politics/government structure is entirely communist and is pretty much modeled after Lenin's government. Its economic policies are a mixture of communism and capitalism, the government pretty much controls the entire capital/banking system while at the same time owning all of the land and property, there is very little to no property rights in China although this appears to be changing ever so slowly. The real capitalism that exists in China is the creation of private and public companies that are not state owned and even with fact the and big and important companies of China for the most part are entirely state owned enterprises.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

it is widely common knowledge the party that rules China is Communist

No, they call themselves communist. Their actions are not communist however. Similar to how the Liberal Democratic Party that rules Japan is not liberal.

you can't figure it out that bgood41 is talking about the government system of China

Interesting how even though bgood41 said 'Communist China', you have somehow redefined the English language to mean that he is speaking of the political party that leads China, and not the country.

Communist - an adjective China - a country

Communist China - the country of China that is communist.

Sadly you don't seem to understand the context the word "Democratic" is being used even after being provided a link as to why the word "Democratic" is being used in communist country names.

So now you are providing evidence to back up that the DPRK is democratic. So you do think it is a democratic country. Well then I can understand how you would be confused about the fact that China is not communist.

If we go by its actions China's politics/government structure is entirely communist

You obviously don't know the tenets of communism, as China does not follow them. It is an oligarchy, not a communist state. Now I understand you have a tendency to want to redefine the English language to make it fit your beliefs, but unfortunately language does not work that way.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, they call themselves communist. Their actions are not communist however.

Actually Yes and their actions are communist.

Interesting how even though bgood41 said 'Communist China', you have somehow redefined the English language to mean that he is speaking of the political party that leads China, and not the country.

Well gee look who just caught up to the slang that is used.

So now you are providing evidence to back up that the DPRK is democratic.

In the way you are using the word nope.

You obviously don't know the tenets of communism,

I would say I know more about it than you, or at the very least I understand what I do know about the tenets of Communism better than you do.

China does not follow them

China follows a lot of the tenants of Communism, does it follow all of them? Of course not, in fact Leninist communism is supposed to be stepping stone to the final form of Communism. You seem to be under the impression that if it doesn't follow all of the tenants it can't be communist.

It is an oligarchy, not a communist state.

It is both, all governments in this world are an oligarchy to some degree, there is no escaping that. The USA is an oligarchy and a representative democracy and a republic at the same time. Contemporary governments have made for example the idea that oligarchies and communist states are mutual exclusive ambiguous and or moot.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I would say I know more about it than you, or at the very least I understand what I do know about the tenets of Communism better than you do.

Says the guy who is trying to redefine English to fit his argument.

It all boils down to one simple fact, that you have been unable to refute - China is about as communist as the DPRK is democratic. You can keep trying to redif one the language all you want, but it just doesn't work that way.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Says the guy who is trying to redefine English to fit his argument.

Oh please, bgood41 used slang/label reference to refer to government/party that rules the country called People's Republic of China. Pardon me for pointing that out.

It all boils down to one simple fact, that you have been unable to refute - China is about as communist as the DPRK is democratic. You can keep trying to redif one the language all you want, but it just doesn't work that way.

Bwahahaha. Your argument the entire time has been this:

No, they call themselves communist. Their actions are not communist however.

If it's the actions, then China is not communist

So to say it once again, the only thing communist about China is the name of its political party. It does not follow the tenets of communism, nor act in a communist manner.

All your argument has been the entire time is just you saying that they call themselves communist but they aren't. You haven't provided anything to support that position. Your "Fact(s)" is nothing more than a single sentence opinion claiming that your opinion is fact. I at the very least provided an article written by RICHARD MCGREGOR on the government structure of China and how it is in fact Communist.

You are also completely ignorant or are just plain in denial of the context in which North Korea is using the word Democratic in the country's official/formal name.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Says the guy who is trying to redefine English to fit his argument.

Right....

It all boils down to one simple fact, that you have been unable to refute - China is about as communist as the DPRK is democratic. You can keep trying to redif one the language all you want, but it just doesn't work that way.

What are you talking about? There is no simple fact, what it is is you claiming your opinion as fact with no supporting evidence. Besides I already refuted that statement by showing that the political system is almost entirely following the Leninist model of Communism and I also showed that the word Democratic is being used in place of the word Demos, in other words it is another way of saying socialist republic.

The truth of the matter is this really all boils down to one simple fact, you have been unable to refute my linked sources.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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