U.N. report suggests temporary basic income to help world's poorest amid pandemic

Actually, Universal Basic Income would take all the admin costs out of the different furloughing schemes etc. around the world and be a great way to reduce social grievances.

Actually, Universal Basic Income would take all the admin costs out of the different furloughing schemes etc. around the world and be a great way to reduce social grievances.

BUT SOCIALISM!!!!!

It's a slippery slope. I get why people are attracted to socialism, especially in times like these . But you need to understand, nothing comes for free. There is always a cost/consequence. Best to understand what they are before blindly calling for socialism.

To be clear, I'm all for philanthropy and charity for those most in need. Rich countries supporting poor is great. But UBI within a country is the slippery slope.

BUT SOCIALISM!!!!!

I find it hard to believe that Socialist countries are not already giving out money. What is preventing Western European’s, Cuba, North Korea, and Venezuela from sharing their vast wealth obtained through their utopian economic systems with the rest of the world?

The UK until recently was providing Aid to China via various EU & UN Programmes... China ! Really ?!?

There is always a cost/consequence. Best to understand what they are before blindly calling for socialism.

But blindly calling something socialism seems OK. Is that right?

So, Mt Gutierrez, who’s going to pay for it all?

Socialism works fine...Until you run out of other people’s money. Socialists always seem to forget or ignore that bit.

Socialism works fine...Until you run out of other people’s money. Socialists always seem to forget or ignore that bit.

Yeah, because Denmark, Canada, Australia etc have run out of other people's money right? It seems America hasn't run out of other people's money just yet - their debt is $26 trillion, and they are still spending other people's money.

Sorry, what was that about socialism?

kyronstavic

Socialism works fine...Until you run out of other people’s money. 

All the money issued in our capitalist system is issued by the govt. So it's not really the "people's money." The govt spends or issues money into existence, after which it ends up in the possession of the private sector, usually temporarily. Every dollar or yen in the economy can be traced directly back to govt issuance. So if the govt makes our money, it may as well distribute it more effectively, and in today's economic circumstances, that means programs like guaranteed income.

BUT SOCIALISM!!!!!

Socialism is state ownership of enterprises. I am not aware that any of these programs call for states to take over companies in the private sector.

nothing comes for free. 

It did for the US in World War 2. The US was in a great depression and when war came, but then the govt spent massively -- funded by bonds held by Americans, who received a return on their investment -- after which the US economy enjoyed several decades of unprecedented prosperity. Until Reagan came along.

Socialism is state ownership of enterprises. I am not aware that any of these programs call for states to take over companies in the private sector. 

the comment was meant to be tongue in cheek simply because it is the type of policy that certain people will scream that at. Personally I don’t know if a UBI would work but I’m not opposed to it.

What was that line from Oliver Stone’s “Platoon”? Something about the rich have always been something something the poor?

We’ve had similar problems in our past, “The high priest received a percentage of the profit from the money changers and merchants, so their removal from the Temple precinct would have caused a financial loss to him. Because pilgrims were unfamiliar with Jerusalem, the Temple merchants sold sacrificial animals at a higher price than elsewhere in the city. The high priest overlooked their dishonesty, as long as he got his share.“ It doesn’t end well for any who upset “the system”, and as seen with the corona virus response, the UN is part of “the system”, along with the world bank, IMF, IBBC, ECB, the FED, to name a few.

There’s a reason the phrase “debt slaves” is popular. Just ask any economic “hit man” to explain how the above institutions operate.

StrangerlandToday  04:09 am JST

Socialism works fine...Until you run out of other people’s money. Socialists always seem to forget or ignore that bit.

Yeah, because Denmark, Canada, Australia etc have run out of other people's money right? It seems America hasn't run out of other people's money just yet - their debt is $26 trillion, and they are still spending other people's money.

Sorry, what was that about socialism?

You are aware that these countries are mainly market economies with welfare safety nets, right? That's not socialism, but there are elements of it in there to soften the harder edges of capitalism/market economies.

Despite what you might have been led to believe, you can't just print money out of thin air forever without it losing value through inflation (the US dollar has lost about 96% of its value since the money supply was privatised to the Federal Reserve in 1913) unless goods and services are created through industrial activity. You only have to look what happened in Australia when the government interfered in the housing market with all those first home buyer grants: it just drove up the prices of housing by a similar amount or more, because there was more money chasing after limited resources. UBI would have a similar effect, and Finland canned their experiment with it, after concluding that the costs of UBI outweighed the benefits.

I can understand why people want it, especially at the moment, but in the long term I question how it can be sustained without worsening the debt problem even further. Someday, the creditors will want their money back. And who's going to pay? One way or another...

Of course, the situation is way more complex than I or anyone else on here have just touched on.

"...you can't just print money out of thin air forever without it losing value through inflation"

Sure you can. The 10,000 yen in my wallet buys more today in terms of merchandise than it did 20 years ago. During that time, Japan has engaged in the world's most aggressive QE ("money printing") program, which has more than doubled the money supply. Inflation rate has varied between barely above zero to negative.

JeffLeeToday  11:02 am JST

"...you can't just print money out of thin air forever without it losing value through inflation"

Sure you can. The 10,000 yen in my wallet buys more today in terms of merchandise than it did 20 years ago. During that time, Japan has engaged in the world's most aggressive QE ("money printing") program, which has more than doubled the money supply. Inflation rate has varied between barely above zero to negative.

How long do you think it will last? It's only backed by confidence.

I'm not sure myself, but it can't go on forever.

@Kyronstavic

It can go on as long as Japan continues to own its own debt (45% is held by the BOJ) and can taper its fiscal spending once all its domestic economic resources are fully employed (to prevent inflation).