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U.S. Navy relieves Seventh Fleet commander after collisions in Asia

44 Comments
By Phil Stewart and Tim Kelly

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These ships cost billions of dollars and all have Aegis systems which are supposed to be rated to track and engage multiple mid range ICBMS with surface to air missiles on reentry. If these ships can't track a freighter or fishing vessel going 15 knots, then something is seriously wrong.

Whatever the reason, I hope the Navy digs deep to find it and prevent deadly and unbelievable accidents like these. God help the families of the men who have died.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Don't be surprised to hear that these billion dollar systems have been HACKED and fed DIS-information / Data, CAUSING this stuff to happen....ridiculous ?, maybe,....just one idea.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

I've also been wondering about hacking. Two deadly incidents and two more I'm not familiar with.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Two deadly incidents and two more I'm not familiar with.

Indeed, the Tokyo bay incident which caused massive environmental damage was certainly kept under wraps.

Party's over at Yokosuka.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Don't be surprised to hear that these billion dollar systems have been HACKED and fed DIS-information / Data, CAUSING this stuff to happen....ridiculous ?, maybe,....just one idea.

Wouldn't these ships also have crew who's role would be to visually scan the horizon for hazards? Just purely so don't 100% rely on automated navigation and hazard systems. Even at night there are running lights to show port and starboard to keep an eye out for.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Haven't heard of any Collisions involving Japanese SDF vessels - why's that ? News blackout or something being done differently ?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

5 ( +6 / -1 )

"That's too bad"

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"Did you say USS John McCain?"

"That's too bad"

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Did the US Navy finally migrate from Windows XP ?

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/technology/microsoft-windows-xp-navy-contract/index.html

Though they're paying Microsoft to keep making security updates for it, WinXP been replaced in offices not on the front line:

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-navy-use-Windows-XP/answer/Bart-Loews

They do…and they don’t

I was a contractor for the Navy Secretariat for 6 years. During that time they pushed out an update to Windows 7. There was a mandate to get everything up to date since it’s a CAT I STIG violation to have an unsupported operating system in use. Every Navy office that’s not on the front line has definitely upgraded from Windows XP.

Operations machines are special, they must be online [cannot be down for maintenance] and they have to be as secure as possible. It’s very expensive and time consuming to migrate to Windows 7 en masse and it’s not 100% guaranteed to work with every computer. On top of that there are legacy systems that are depended upon in use that will not work outside of Windows 7.

I actually had to deal with a system developed in ADA that ran on Windows 2000…we had to reverse engineer it to upgrade to Windows 2013.

I had the convenience of working on nonessential systems, which allowed us to break things without risking people dying. The downside is that we had no excuses for being behind the times, we had to get our systems modern and secure.

The front lines need to be reliable [work close to 100% all the time] and they need to be up [cannot be down for maintenance].

The most expensive part of the migration is making sure the systems that run on the OSes still work after the migration, if they don’t, new systems have to be made…which is very expensive.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

mmwkdw "Haven't heard of any Collisions involving Japanese SDF vessels ..."

Throw your net a little wider.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"That's too Bad ....very bad ...not good...Baaaaaaad"

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

An official Chinese newspaper said on Tuesday the U.S. navy's latest collision shows it is becoming an increasing risk to shipping in Asia despite its claims of helping to protect freedom of navigation.

? x 1,000

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@ListenTheTruth

Thanks for the link. It's certainly an interesting article, but I don't think radar would be affected by GPS spoofing. Nor would Russian ever be able to hack the human being who is supposed to be sitting on the bridge physically looking out the window. An oil tanker doesn't just sneak up on you.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

An official Chinese newspaper said on Tuesday the U.S. navy's latest collision shows it is becoming an increasing risk to shipping in Asia despite its claims of helping to protect freedom of navigation.

Ooh, matron. Naughty, but very funny!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Man on the bridge or wheel drunk. The only reason.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Even if GPS were bad there would still be radar, sonar, binoculars, maps, compasses and various other built in parallel systems. These crews are trained to process that information, or they should be. 

It’s most likely a case of being over reliant on sophisticated navigational technology with the watches being undermanned, undertrained and hesitating to take action when failing to confirm what the radars are seeing.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@M3, if history should teach us anything, imagine the unthinkable.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Time to redeploy eyes on the bridge. At ALL times.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Listen: Interesting, if they can and are as proven messing with GPS, who knows, as you say, what they ARE messing with. Eyes on the bridge now at all times. Don’t do augmented only actual reality. (Whatever that may be)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

An oil tanker doesn't just sneak up on you.

Apparently they can!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

there would still be radar, sonar, binoculars, maps, compasses and various other built in parallel systems.

And yet all these systems failed, twice in two months, under the exact same conditions, night time and a huge cargo ship approaching.

In both cases nobody sounded the alarm, which means the Navy ships were totally and utterly surprised, even when the 60,000 ton tanker was feet away.

I'm betting they all had their eyes glued to their radar screens, and those screens were displaying false info.

Welcome to the 21st century. Some of you seem just as stunned as swordfighters were when they were first confronted with gunpowder.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Oil Tankers are maybe moving too fast for the US navy, must be the reason...

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Bishop takes Knight.

Time will tell if it was worth it to Russia to pull the same hack twice. Once can be seen as a coincidence, twice is a pattern and patterns are always figured out.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Bad weather condition radar maintenance overcrowded ocean and captain sipping

moonshine all possible factors in this disaster.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@nandakandamanda

Throw your net a little wider.

Please do, share your Wisdom with us ? So far, everything I see from the various media / social / sordid sources is related to the US Naval collisions, etc. Can you please provide something to substantiate your claim as my net is pretty small compared to yours, so I'm willing to learn in order to make it bigger.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I'm hearing scuttlbutt that overwork and fatigue due to not enough staffing and crew shortage is a possible leading cause and is systemic.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Here's an idea, admittedly with no evidence to back it up....

Modern American warships are heavily computerized. Could 4 episodes in a fairly short amount of time, on 4 different ships, be an indication that something or someone has found a way to interfere with the onboard electronics, especially the navigation systems?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

There is no hacking. The ships are not being fed false information. Unless there is some Ghost in the Shell eye hacking going on the collisions are the fault of one thing: poor watch standing. The watch teams are either actually unqualified (unlikely), or had their quals signed off a little too easily.

You cannot hack into a ship and take control of it like something from "The Net". One particular nutter on here will say something like "AEGIS was fed false information". That system is not used for navigation. There are two different RADARs used for navigation on a DDG. There is also the small matter of lookouts.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The captains are responsible for their vessels. They are all, undoubtedly, graduates of the Naval Academy and have been in the Navy for decades. How does sacking the group commander change anything?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Triffic! Now to tackle the problem of not knowing how to navigate their ships ...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Here's an idea, admittedly with no evidence to back it up....

I stopped reading after that.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Taj

The US Navy said the commercial freighter and the warship experienced hacking.... This is the fourth incident of its like in 12 months..... Just like the hacking on Election day in the US folk are thinking Russia is behind it

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/when-is-a-russian-hack-not-a-hack-evidence-suggests-dnc-email-hack-was-an-inside-job/article/2631267

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

collisions are the fault of one thing: poor watch standing

All right, well you can keep training sailors on how to use binoculars while Russia and China develop highly sophisticated electronic warfare systems for the 21st century.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Just like the hacking on Election day in the US folk are thinking Russia is behind it

The US Marine Corp also ordered a safety stand down earlier this month to review safety and training procedure after a series of serious and two deadly jet crashes. In addition to whatever some people are 'thinking' because they don't know, there are systemic problems across branches of the military that have nothing to do with Russia, or China.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This happens because these Seaman will not receive any Punishment for the death of these people, 70 years ago they would all be in Jail.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Just a wild thought. We have had terrorism by jet airliner, terrorism by bomb, terrorism by truck. Could we be seeing terrorism by ship

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This happens because these Seaman will not receive any Punishment for the death of these people, 70 years ago they would all be in Jail.

And much of it unfairly applied. There was an increased emphasis on due process requirements and civil rights under the law for military and civilians alike starting in the 1950's.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

An official Chinese newspaper said on Tuesday the U.S. navy's latest collision shows it is becoming an increasing risk to shipping in Asia....

This is interesting and suspicious. Maritime incidents involving U.S. Navy ships, but no reported collisions involving Japan SDF ships?

Now we have China saying the U.S. Navy ships represents a danger to maritime safety.

More propaganda fodder for the anti-U.S. military presence in the region.

What's next? Crashes (other than Ospreys) involving USAF aircraft and China saying U.S. military aircraft are an increasing risk to airspace, thus the need to remove the U.S. military air bases.

Time will tell if it was worth it to Russia to pull the same hack twice. Once can be seen as a coincidence, twice is a pattern and patterns are always figured out.

Don't you mean China? They're the ones who wants the U.S. military presence out of Japan and Okinawa and out of the Taiwan Straits, East China Seas and South China Seas.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

An official Chinese newspaper said on Tuesday the U.S. navy's latest collision shows it is becoming an increasing risk to shipping in Asia despite its claims of helping to protect freedom of navigation.

That's true, the US navy and their ship chasing in Paracels was definitely a very big risk that they have ignored other country's concerns!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The machine is only as good as the person operating it. Billion-dollar systems can be easily compromised by humans. Fatigue, indifference, ignorance, arrogance, faulty training, over-reliance on automation, etc. can cause accidents in cars, planes, trains, automobiles and warships.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Fatty Kim must be thinking that all he needs to beat the US Navy is buy some fishing boats and oil tankers.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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